Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies,
then demand their cooperation and money.

Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health
care to all Americans is socialism.

HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but
creationism should be taught in schools.

A president lying about an extramarital affair is a impeachable
offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which
thousands die is solid defense policy.

Government should limit itself to the power named in the Constitution, which ******* censoring the Internet.

The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but
George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a
conservative radio host. Then it's an illness, and you need our prayers for your recovery.

You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have the right to adopt..

What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but
what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant


feel free to add your own.

Originally posted by melancholia
Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

I would be interested to see any proof that Dick Cheney did any business with Saddam.


Originally posted by melancholia
A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

Corporations are heavily regulated in this country, and even more so in others.


Originally posted by melancholia
The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

Pay for soldiers in combat has never actually dropped (as far as I know), and has gradually increased with every president.


Originally posted by melancholia
Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health
care to all Americans is socialism.

Providing healthcare to all american's is socialism, Iraq can do whatever the hell it wants with it's healthcare.


Originally posted by melancholia
HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

No, they have their own best interest, as do government officials pushing for universal healthcare.

Originally posted by jczeroman

Pay for soldiers in combat has never actually dropped (as far as I know), and has gradually increased with every president.

Combat pay and Veteran's Benefits are two different things.

It's been proposed that disabled veterans be required to pay for their medications and doctors visits, and also a raise in the cost of non-disability related medications. There were other things proposed, but I can't recall what....

Link: http://veterans.house.gov/democratic/press/108th/3-13-03budget.htm

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser


Combat pay and Veteran's Benefits are two different things.

It's been proposed that disabled veterans be required to pay for their medications and doctors visits, and also a raise in the cost of non-disability related medications. There were other things proposed, but I can't recall what....

Right, that is why i didn't say anything about veterans benefits. The list, however, erroniously states that combat pay went down, and it hasn't.

Originally posted by jczeroman


Right, that is why i didn't say anything about veterans benefits. The list, however, erroniously states that combat pay went down, and it hasn't. My bad, I didn't see the combat pay part..

Actually, there <i>was</i> a proposition to cut it, but it never went through. They reported it in the <a href="http://www.armytimes.com">Army Times</a>, but I can't find a link or anything...

Alot of people around here were really pissed until it was finally nixed.

Originally posted by jczeroman
Providing healthcare to all american's is socialism, Iraq can do whatever the hell it wants with it's healthcare.


no, you don't understand. WE, THE UNITED STATES, have guaranteed free healthcare to all iraqi citizens during this occupation.

Originally posted by jczeroman


Right, that is why i didn't say anything about veterans benefits. The list, however, erroniously states that combat pay went down, and it hasn't.

way to hang your hat on a technicality. it doesn't change the fact that the republicans are giving a big fuck you to veterans by slashing (and/or proposing to) veterans healthcare and benefits.

Originally posted by Debaser


no, you don't understand. WE, THE UNITED STATES, have guaranteed free healthcare to all iraqi citizens during this occupation.

wow.. that's absolutely disgusting.

Originally posted by jczeroman


I would be interested to see any proof that Dick Cheney did any business with Saddam.


Halliburton Iraq ties more than Cheney said


Monday, June 25, 2001

UNITED NATIONS, June 23 (UPI) -- Halliburton Co., the oil company that was headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, signed contracts with Iraq worth $73 million through two subsidiaries while he was at its helm, the Washington Post reported.

During last year's presidential campaign, Cheney said Halliburton did business with Libya and Iran through foreign subsidiaries, but maintained he had imposed a "firm policy" against trading with Iraq.

"Iraq's different," the Post quoted him as saying.

Oil industry executives and confidential U.N. records showed, however, that Halliburton held stakes in two companies that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer, the Post reported.

Two former senior executives of the Halliburton subsidiaries said they knew of no policy against dealing with Iraq. One of them said he was certain Cheney knew about the deals, though he had never spoken about them to the vice president directly.

If he "was ever in a conversation or meeting where there was a question of pursuing a project with someone in Iraq, he said, 'No,' " Mary Matalin, Cheney's counselor, said.

"In a joint venture, he would not have reviewed all their existing contracts," Matalin told the Post. "The nature of those joint ventures was that they had a separate governing structure, so he had no control over them."

The deal was legal, the Post said, and they showed how U.S. firms use foreign subsidiaries and joint ventures to avoid doing business with Baghdad. The practice is not a violation of U.S. law and falls within the U.N.-run oil-for-food program.

The Post said U.N. records showed that the dealings were more extensive than originally reported and than Cheney had acknowledged, however.

According to the report, the Halliburton subsidiaries, Dresser-Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co., sold material to Baghdad through French affiliates. The sales lasted from the first half of 1997 to the summer of 2000. Cheney resigned from Halliburton in August.

"Halliburton and Ingersoll-Rand, as far as I know, had no official policy about that, other than we would be in compliance with applicable U.S. and international laws," said Cleive Dumas, who oversaw Ingersoll Dresser Pump's business in the Middle East, including Iraq.

Cheney's spokeswoman, Juleanna Glover Weiss, referred the Post's calls to Halliburton, which in turn, directed them back to Cheney's office.

In a July 30, 2000, interview on ABC-TV's "This Week," Cheney denied that Halliburton or its subsidiaries traded with Baghdad. Three weeks later, on the same program, he modified his response after being informed that a Halliburton spokesman had said that Dresser Rand and Ingersoll Dresser Pump traded with Iraq.

Cheney said he did not know the subsidiaries were doing business with the Iraqi regime when Halliburton purchased Dresser Industries in September 1998.

The firms traded with Iraq for more than a year under Cheney, however. They signed nearly $30 million in contracts before he sold Halliburton's 49 percent stake in Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co. in December 1999 and its 51 percent interest in Dresser Rand to Ingersoll-Rand in February 2000, the Post quoted U.N. records as saying.

Cheney has long criticized of unilateral U.S. sanctions, which he says penalize American companies. He has pushed for a review of policy toward Iraq, Iran and Libya.

--

Copyright 2001 by United Press International.

All rights reserved.

Originally posted by jczeroman


wow.. that's absolutely disgusting.

http://www.house.gov/commerce_democrats/press/108nr17.htm

Originally posted by Debaser


way to hang your hat on a technicality.

When an entity makes a statement proporting it to be fact when they know that it is not the case or refuse to do elemtary research on their facts, that is called lying.

"The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay."

It's not true, they are reporting it as so.

They've actually caught themselves pretty good. If Bush is lying, as they assert, "A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy," then they are also lying, as Bush was either ignorant of the truth about WMDs or he was lying just as they are either ignorant of the facts on army pay, or lyign about them. Either way both Bush's facts on WMDs and the list's facts are wrong.

Therefore, the authors of this list are either:

Lying about combat pay or lying about Bush being a liar.

You understand that most of those could apply to elected Democrats also, right?

Originally posted by Debaser


Halliburton Iraq ties more than Cheney said


That is not "Cheney did business with him." Claiming that because Cheney, acted as an agent for a business, which had a contract with another business, which contracted with Iraq somehow means that he "did business with [Saddam]" is like saying John Kerry, who is married to Mr. Heinz, who sold a bottle of ketchup to a retailer, that was bought by Jeffrey Dahmer to flavour a human hand before eating it means that John kerry "did business with a cannibal."

Originally posted by Ghetto_Squirrel
You understand that most of those could apply to elected Democrats also, right?

wrong.

Originally posted by jczeroman


That is not "Cheney did business with him." Claiming that because Cheney, acted as an agent for a business, which had a contract with another business, which contracted with Iraq somehow means that he "did business with [Saddam]" is like saying John Kerry, who is married to Mr. Heinz, who sold a bottle of ketchup to a retailer, that was bought by Jeffrey Dahmer to flavour a human hand before eating it means that John kerry "did business with a cannibal."

actually, its like saying Cheney was running this big company that owns these smaller companies, that had business dealings selling equipment to iraq, which at the time was being run by a murderous tyrant.

jesus, shut the fuck up with your joke answers. why don't you turn off fox news, put down the weekly standard and start reading news from both sides of the fence?

Originally posted by Ghetto_Squirrel
You understand that most of those could apply to elected Democrats also, right?

yes... but i hate them less right now :)

Originally posted by Debaser


actually, its like saying Cheney was running this big company that owns these smaller companies, that had business dealings selling equipment to iraq, which at the time was being run by a murderous tyrant.

jesus, shut the fuck up with your joke answers. why don't you turn off fox news, put down the weekly standard and start reading news from both sides of the fence?

i'd give you head right now if i could.

Originally posted by Debaser


actually, its like saying Cheney was running this big company that owns these smaller companies, that had business dealings selling equipment to iraq, which at the time was being run by a murderous tyrant.

Done through France and not under cheney's control, as he was CEO, otherwise know by people who actually understand business as, an agent. Cheney didn't have control over those subsidiaries and even then, those subsidiaries (according to this article, which may or may not be accurate itself) did business through yet another party. Again, the list claims that Cheney "did business with" saddam, that is hardly true.

Originally posted by Debaser
jesus, shut the fuck up with your joke answers.

Those who laugh at the truth usually do so in fear.

Originally posted by Debaser
why don't you turn off fox news,

I don't have cable, and I don't watch foxnews.


Originally posted by Debaser
put down the weekly standard


I have no idea what that publication is, nor have I ever read it.


Originally posted by Debaser
and start reading news from both sides of the fence?

Now whose making jokes?

cheney is such a fuckin crook its unbelievable that people are dumb enough to defend him.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml

Originally posted by Debaser
cheney is such a fuckin crook its unbelievable that people are dumb enough to defend him.


*sigh*

I am not defending cheney, nor am I saying he isn't a crook. I am saying that the list is giving out both sensationalized and ficticious information. There are plenty of facts available to prove that Bush, Cheney and other politicians are crooks without resorting to ad hominem and mythology.

quit being so nitpicky, jc.


cheney is a crook:

Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 9/14/2003

Quote/Claim:
"And since I left Halliburton to become George Bush’s vice president, I’ve severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interests. I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven’t had now for over three years." [Source: Meet the Press transcript]

Fact:
A congressional report found that Cheney still owns “more than 433,000 Halliburton stock options,” including “100,000 shares at $54.50 per share, 33,333 shares at $28.125 and 300,000 shares at $39.50 per share.” - CNN, 9/25/03



Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 10/5/2000

Quote/Claim:
"The government had absolutely nothing to do with [my economic success at Halliburton.]” [Source: Debate transcript]

Fact:
"Cheney's comment left out how closely Dallas-based Halliburton's fortunes are linked to the U.S. government. The world's largest oil services firm is a leading U.S. defense contractor and has benefited from financial guarantees granted by U.S. agencies. During Cheney's five years as chairman and chief executive, Halliburton was identified as a potential participant in 10 loans or loan guarantees valued at a total of $1.8 billion awarded by the U.S. government. Additionally, during Cheney's tenure, the U.S. Defense Department granted Halliburton contracts valued at about $1.8 billion, according to department records.” In 1999 alone, “the Pentagon ranked Halliburton the No. 17 recipient of 'prime contract awards' with $657.5 million.” - Bloomberg News, 10/6/00



Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 7/25/2000

Quote/Claim:
“What happens financially [by joining the GOP ticket], obviously, is I take a bath, in one sense.” [Source: CNN Web site]

Fact:
Halliburton “has agreed to let Mr. Cheney, the Republican vice-presidential candidate, retire with a package worth an estimated $20 million, according to people who have reviewed the deal.” - NY Times, 8/12/00



Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 1/22/2004

Quote/Claim:
“I wouldn't know how to manipulate the [government contract] process if I wanted to.” [Source: CNN Website]

Fact:
“A report by the Washington-based Center for Public Integrity suggested that Halliburton essentially cashed in - doubling the value of its government contracts - on Cheney. The company took in revenue of $ 2.3 billion on government contracts,” which was “up $1.2 billion from the five-year period before he arrived.” - LA Times, 10/19/00 ; Chicago Tribune, 8/10/00 ; AFP, 12/14/00




Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 1/22/2004

Quote/Claim:
"Halliburton gets unfairly maligned simply because of their past association with me." [Source: Cnn Website]

Allegations of corruption stem from "desperate" political opponents who "can't find any legitimate policy differences to debate." [Source: CNN Website]

Fact:
Halliburton itself has acknowledged that it “accepted up to $6 million in kickbacks” in its no-bid contract work in Iraq. Additionally, it is the Bush Administration – not “political opponents” -- that has looked into allegations that the company overcharged the government by $61 million. And it has been the Bush Administration that "repeatedly warned the company that the food it was serving the 110,000 U.S. troops in Iraq was 'dirty'” with an audit finding "blood all over the floor" of its kitchens, "dirty pans," and "rotting meats ... and vegetables." - Boston Globe, 1/23/04; CBS, 12/12/03;




Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 1/22/2004

Quote/Claim:
“I severed my ties with Halliburton when I became a candidate for Vice President in August of 2000.” [Source: NPR]

Fact:
"Vice President Dick Cheney received $178,437 in deferred pay last year from Halliburton, the Texas oil-field services company he once headed that has received billion-dollar government contracts in Iraq." - Reuters, 4/13/04



Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 8/27/2000

Quote/Claim:
"I'll do whatever I have to do to avoid a conflict of interest. I will eliminate the conflict. I can assure you, I've said repeatedly, I will not tolerate or be party to a conflict of interests while I'm vice president. I'll do whatever I have to do to resolve that conflict.” [Source: ABC This Week]

Fact:
A congressional report found that “the more than 433,000 stock options [Cheney] possesses is considered among the 'ties' retained in or 'linkages to former employers' that may 'represent a continuing financial interest' in those employers which makes them potential conflicts of interest.” - CNN, 9/25/03



Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 8/27/2000

Quote/Claim:
"I had a firm policy that I wouldn't do anything in Iraq, even arrangements that were supposedly legal. We've not done any business in Iraq since the sanctions were imposed and I had a standing policy that I wouldn't do that.” [Source: ABC This Week]

Fact:
“According to oil industry executives and confidential United Nations records, however, Halliburton held stakes in two firms that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer of the Dallas-based company. Two former senior executives of the Halliburton subsidiaries say that, as far as they knew, there was no policy against doing business with Iraq. One of the executives also says that although he never spoke directly to Cheney about the Iraqi contracts, he is certain Cheney knew about them. The Halliburton subsidiaries joined dozens of American and foreign oil supply companies that helped Iraq increase its crude exports from $4 billion in 1997 to nearly $18 billion in 2000. Since the program began, Iraq has exported oil worth more than $40 billion.” - Washington Post, 6/23/01



Speaker: Cheney, Dick - Vice President

Date: 8/7/2002

Quote/Claim:
“Halliburton is a fine company, and I'm pleased that I was associated with the company.” [Source: White House Web site]

Fact:
Halliburton has acknowledged that it “accepted up to $6 million in kickbacks” in its contract work in Iraq. It is also under scrutiny over allegations of overcharging the government by $61 million in Iraq – a practice for which the company was previously fined $2 million. The company also potentially faces criminal charges in a $180-million international bribery scandal during the time Cheney was CEO of the company. The Pentagon has also "repeatedly warned the company that the food it was serving the 110,000 U.S. troops in Iraq was 'dirty'” with an audit finding "blood all over the floor" of its kitchens, "dirty pans, dirty grills, dirty salad bars and rotting meats…and vegetables." - Boston Globe, 1/23/04; CBS, 12/12/03, 4/12/03; Washington Post, 1/21/04; AFP, 12/14/03

Originally posted by Debaser
cheney is a crook:

[/B]
Did I miss something? When did the subject become Cheney's financial ties to Haliburton? The thread is about the stuff in that woefully inaccurate list up top, and more specifically Cheney/Halliburton's dealings with Saddam Hussein. Stop trying to change the subject. This happens in just about every thread I see on this board. Someone posts some list or anecdote they think is funny and/or true, someone calls it like it is and points out inaccuaracies or exaggerations, then someone defends the inaccuracies until they realize they're in over their head and try to change the subject to an argument they can win. Either that or they just bail out of the thread altogether.

No one is arguing that Dick Cheney is not a shady character. If anything, that much was conceded. But what do Cheney's present-day financial ties with Halliburton have to do with anything on the list that started this thread? Absolutely nothing. If you want to keep arguing that Cheney did business with Saddam, have at it. But don't use the very mention of Cheney's name to segue into something totally unrelated just because you can't prove the point being argued.

I think the quote pertaining to Cuba is the most interesting- tho also one of the more longstanding- issues on that list. I'd like to see a cogent argument for our continual trade embargo with Cuba, and yet not with Vietnam and China. Not that I wouldn't believe it if presented, I've simply never seen a legitimate argument in defense of that policy.

<font color="gold">120 truths about liberals:

At the most basic level, the liberal is an adolescent forever in search of a world without moral consequence.

Freedom from moral consequence can only be secured by a collectivist, totalitarian state.

The liberal religion reveres the twin gods of genitals and government, and is overseen by a priesthood of psychologists.

"Freedom" to the liberal is strictly freedom of the genitals.

All non-sexual individual freedoms are despised by the liberal because they demand moral responsibility.

The fundamental power struggle of the liberal is individual v. collective. The individual must be relieved of all power in favor of the collective.

Individualism demands moral responsibility. Collectivism hopes to eliminate the need for moral responsibility.

The U.S. Constitution - specifically the individualistic Bill of Rights - is the enemy of the liberal.

The liberal despises the United States because it is the premier gaurantor and promoter of individualism in the world.

All institutions and concerns - schools, environment, courts, etc. - serve no relevant purpose other than the promotion of collectivism.

Abortion is necessary to gaurantee genital freedom and eliminate moral consequence.

The basis of psychology is the elimination of moral responsibility.

The liberal must create an atmosphere of crisis and fear to justify collectivist oppression.

Any religious person who believes or promotes moral consequence is the enemy of the liberal and must be oppressed.

Despite decades of spectacular failure, the liberal clings to the collectivist dream because it is far more than a theory of government. It is a religion.

The liberal seeks to dominate any institution which can weaken or destroy individual parental rights - public schools, child abuse agencies, pediatric associations, etc..

The liberal applauds the imprisoning of homeschooling parents who dare to raise their children outside the control of collectivist public schools.

Private ownership of guns is the single greatest symbol of individual power, and therefore despised.

All individual freedoms demand the responsible behaviour of the individual, and therefore demand a moral code. Liberals despise freedom because they despise morality.

The liberal loves Bill Clinton because of who he is, not in spite of who he is.

The liberal despises national sovereignty which protects individual freedoms.

The liberal promotes international governments (UN, EU, etc.) which seek to destroy individualism protected by sovereign states.

The liberal fears any hint of individualism in any part of the world, and is obsessed with the centralized control of all human activity and thought.

"Multi-culturalism" is the code world for a single, oppressive, collectivist culture.

Liberals speak often of tolerance, but only tolerate liberals.

The liberal seeks to criminalize any speech which promotes morality or individualism as "hate speech".

Environmentalists lie as a matter of course.

The liberal's only method of debate is to insult and discredit anyone who dares to disagree.

When possible, liberals opress anyone who questions their beliefs.

Liberals despise all innocence - especially the innocence of a child.

Liberals seek the sexualization of children and the normalization of pedophilia, all in the pursuit of genital freedom.

In the liberal mind, your freedom is their oppression.

Private property and individual wealth is integral to individualism, and the enemy of the liberal.

The liberal hates you.

The liberal seeks to replace a moral world view with an emotional world view.

The liberal typically chooses a career which produces nothing of value - lawyer, bureaucrat, "activist", etc. - and uses government to extract the wealth of others.

Liberal programs enrich liberals and do little to help the poor.

The liberal despises masculinity as a symbol of individual power.

Feminists groups are about lesbianism and socialism, not equal rights for women.

Liberals are perfectly willing to destroy you financially, remove your children, and imprison you for what you believe.

Liberals fear technology and change - because neither can be centrally controlled.

Liberals are not obsessed with sex, but with promiscuity. Promiscuity is the dominant theme of the liberal media culture.

Liberals despise the suburbs as a manifestation of individual prosperity, private property ownership, and the family.

Liberals despise marriage and family because they are institutions which frown on promiscuity.

Liberals despise the automobile as a symbol of individual freedom and power.

Liberals seek to control public schools, and force all children into them, in order to foster promiscuity and collectivist ideology in children.

Other diseases kill millions more, but liberals are obsessed with AIDS because it is a moral consequence of promiscuity.

Liberals are more committed than conservatives because their politics is also their religion.

Liberal activities are all about ego - to demonstrate "I care more than you do" without really helping anyone.

Whenever a liberal expresses concern "for the children", they are using and targeting children to expand promiscuity, collectivism, and their own pocketbooks and egos.

Because collectivist politics is their only morality, liberals have no problem with deceit, oppression, or violence in their pursuit of collectivism.

Liberals are elitests who exempt themselves from the oppressive rules they impose on the general population.

Liberals howl if a transvestite or convicted felon is even slightly offended, but openly bash Christians.

Liberals dream of a return to a centralized, 1940's urban environment where we all ride the bus from a small, dirty, big-city apartment to an 8-5 union job.

Liberals believe that wealth is static - anyone who makes money must be stealing it from someone else.

Liberals claim to be against violence, but make excuses for liberals like Castro who torture political dissidents.

Liberals have enormous compassion for criminal predators, but little for the victims.

Animal Rights activists despise humanity.

Liberals believe that passing religious values to children is a form of child abuse.

Liberals use moralistic tones and catch-phrases like "social justice", but their only moral is the accumulation of power.

Liberals ideologies tend inevitably towards world-wide totalitarianism.

Liberals are never satisfied with the power they have gained over the lives of individuals - they must control every thought and detail of human activity.

In the liberal world, all problems stem from individualism, and all solutions are collective.

Liberals are humorless bores.

Bill Clinton raped Juanita Broaderick. Liberals don't care.

Bill Clinton used the IRS to oppress conservative political speech. Liberals admire him for it.

Scientists are obsessed with "life on other planets" to confirm the full theory of evolution. The alternative terrifies them.

Liberals are forever in search of a religion (New Age, paganism, Unitarian Universalism, etc.) which smiles on promiscuity.

Liberals despise the Pope because he refuses to compromise on abortion, birth control, and divorce. All three positions discourage promiscuity.

Better that millions of Africans die in the agony of AIDS, and fortunes wasted on cures that don't work, than one liberal breath discouraging promiscuity.

A full-time mother enrages a liberal.

Liberals admire the Chinese forced abortion policy.

Twenty years after spectacularly successful airline deregulation, liberals still whine about it because they are obessed with collectivism, and they are elitests who don't like flying with the middle class.

Human life is cheap in the liberal world.

Liberals are Puritans - pompous, uptight, and legalistic. They crave a bland, monotholic culture where dissent is oppressed by criminal law.

Liberals cannot conceive of a solution to a problem which does not involve government.

Hillary's Village is a totalitarian state.

The EU is all about socialism.

Given the chance, liberals would ban the Bible as "hate speech".

Liberals view humans as monetary objects without moral motivation (welfare, etc.) , but view inaminate objects (guns, profits, etc.) in exclusively moral terms.

The Third Way is a new shade of lipstick on the same old socialist pig.

In Hillary's Village, parents are the child-rearing problem, not the solution.

Liberals supported the return of Elian Gonzalez because they admire Castro's collectivist island prison.

Michal Jackson is a pedophile. The liberal media admire him.

Liberals despise the death penalty as the ultimate statement of moral and individual responsibility.

Anyone who criticizes any aspect of homosexuality is hysterically accused of "homophobia" and "latent homosexuality".

Environmentalists have evolved into pagans who worship rather than "protect" nature.

Modern art is obsessed with hatred for morality and Christianity.

The majority of US universities despise intellectual freedom.

Liberals are obsessed with the elimination of risk because risk is integral to freedom and personal responsibility.

Liberals create child abuse witchhunts, and often send innocent parents to prison in child abuse cases, to justify their destruction of parental rights.

Liberal bureaucrats oppress conservatives and Christians whenever possible.

Liberals are nasty, violent thugs.

Better thousands of women die in the agony of breast cancer, than one liberal breath revealing the link between breast cancer and abortion.

A liberal would sooner pull out his own teeth with a pair of pliers than cut a tax.

Liberals have never really given up on Marx.

Pedophilia is a big part of homosexual culture.

Liberals dream of a massive network of government social workers who control individual families in detail.

The goal of the United Nations is world-wide totalitarianism.

The primary tool of environmentalism is paranoia based on falsehood.

Like the modern liberal, Hitler was a socialist, not a fascist.

Liberals crave the kind of Gestapo "Zero-tolerance" society seen in modern public schools.

The liberal worships appetite and disdains self-discipline.

The liberal is an intolerant, narrow-minded thug.

The liberal end of bigger government justifies any means - including lies, deception, corruption, and violence.

The national media is an extension of the Democrat party, and relentlessly liberal.

For the liberal, "bi-partisan" means being more liberal.

Animal Rights and Environmental "activists" are more about hatred of humanity than love of nature.

The liberal's favorite play, "The Vagina Monologues", glorifies child rape and pedophilia, among other perversions.

Global warming has everything to do with socialism and nothing to do with environment.

The Great Society has destroyed the poor.

Homeschooling mothers enrage liberals.

Liberals secretly applaud the selling of nuclear secrets to China.

The level of truth can be measured by the howling of the liberal press.

No creature on earth is more pompous than a network TV "journalist".

American liberals are embarassed by American success and freedom. Foreign liberals envy it.

Hillary's Village will be chock full of Soviet-style gulags.

The WNBA is all about lesbianism.

Better that millions of children be emotionally scarred, than one liberal breath against the divorce culture so vital to liberal promiscuity</font>

How to be a good Democrat:

1. You have to believe the AIDS virus is spread by a
lack of federal funding.

2. You have to believe that the same teacher who can't
teach 4th graders how to read is somehow qualified to
teach those same kids about sex.

3. You have to believe that guns in the hands of
law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than U.S.
nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese
communists.

4. You have to believe that there was no art before
Federal funding.

5. You have to believe that global temperatures are
less affected by cyclical, documented changes in the
earth's climate and more affected by yuppies driving
SUVs.

6. You have to be against capital punishment (putting
murderers to death) but support abortion (killing
innocent unborn babies) on demand (federally funded of
course.)

7. You have to believe that businesses create
oppression and governments and unions create
prosperity.

8. You have to believe that hunters don't care about
nature but loony activists from Seattle do.

9. You have to believe that self-esteem is more
important than actually doing something to earn it.

10. You have to believe the NRA is bad because it
supports certain parts of the Constitution while the
ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of the
Constitution.

11. You have to believe that taxes are too low but ATM
fees are too high.

12. You have to believe that Margaret Sanger and
Gloria Steinem are more important to American history
than Thomas Jefferson, General Robert E. Lee or Thomas
Edison.

13. You have to believe that standardized tests are
racist but racial quotas are not.

14. You have to believe that the only reason socialism
hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the

right people haven't been in charge.

15. You have to believe conservatives telling the
truth belong in jail but a liar and sex offender belongs in the White House.

16. You have to believe that homosexual parades should
be constitutionally protected and manger scenes at
Christmas should be illegal.

17. You have to believe that illegal Democratic party
funding by the Chinese is somehow in the best interest
of the U.S.

18. You have to believe that gasoline priced at $1.59
per gallon is too expensive but accept bottled spring
water at $1.09 per pint (that’s 1/8 of a gallon) as reasonable.

19. You have to believe the purpose of government is
to take money from people who earned it and spend it
on people who did not earn it.

20. You have to believe in Democracy but demand
only Democrat victories in elections.

21. You have to believe that people who disagree with
you are stupid and backward while believing people who
agree with you are "progressive" and "enlightened."

22. You have to believe that a "B" average economics
major from Yale University with a MBA from Harvard
Business School is too stupid to be President of the
United States.

23. You have to believe that a "C" average history
major from Harvard University, dropout from Vanderbilt
Law School and failure at Vanderbilt Divinity School
is brilliant and should be President of the United
States.

24. You are proud to have Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton,
and Bill Clinton in the Democratic Party.

25. You agreed with France's position on the war in
Iraq until combat victory was achieved within three
weeks.

26. You have to believe giving illegal immigrants drivers licenses is in the best interest of national security.


You have to believe the SUV (personified) has an unfair survival advantage in a crash, so you want everyone to go out and buy and drive Yugo's. Now everyone has an equal chance to die.

You have to believe in windmill wind power as an energy saving device despite studies that show it frequently takes more power in the construction mode than it will deliver in its lifetime.

You have to hate nuclear power so much that you build the only modern age oil-powered aircraft carrier (the JFK) which has to have a whole fleet of oilers following it around the world's oceans to support it. Then you decry the use of fossil (oil) fuels.

You are so water-saving conscious that you back the reduced-water flushing toilet despite the fact that it usually takes two flushes to clear it.


1) You support federal intrusion upon the state when it comes to hate crimes, wage controls, and the kangaroo courts; but are angry and indignant when it comes to banning gay marriages.



2) You believe that Barbara Streisand is a passionate activist who cares deeply for the poor and downtrodden even though you can't afford the $300 ticket to go see her sing.



3) You believe that Timothy Mcvay is the Anti-Christ and should be put to death, but believe that eco-terrorists are romantic vigilantes fighting for justice.



4) You distribute 50,000 paper leaflets whining about all the trees being cut down.



5) You believe that it's okay for the government to disarm law abiding citizens at gunpoint.

Well...that was useless. But does anyone want to take me up on my offer? I'm interested.

Originally posted by Marginalia
Well...that was useless. But does anyone want to take me up on my offer? I'm interested.
Right offhand, a reason I can see for embargoing Cuba but not Vietnam and China would be the fact that Vietnam and China have never allowed Russian missile silos to be built 90 miles away from the American mainland. That kind of hostility from across an ocean is forgivable I think, but its a bit different when it goes on in your own back yard.

That's a nice little list but it totally ignores the fact that the Clinton administration is as guilty of many of those things as the Bush administration.. you want to fault Bush for cutting a military budget? Look at Clinton first.

Originally posted by Corganist

Right offhand, a reason I can see for embargoing Cuba but not Vietnam and China would be the fact that Vietnam and China have never allowed Russian missile silos to be built 90 miles away from the American mainland. That kind of hostility from across an ocean is forgivable I think, but its a bit different when it goes on in your own back yard.

Well, no, I don't see that as a legitimate argument. So Cuba was a threat closer to us...it doesn't seem to follow that we'd single them out, nor would we still be doing it. We fought a war in vietnam that took quite a few more lives that any expidition we've launched into Cuba (and there have been quite a few). China was absolutely a threat- a larger one, a nuclear-armed one, one that threatened us in the Korean War no less. They are, nevertheless, a substantial trade parter. Is it that we cannot live without them? Maybe.

Your theory smacks of the Monroe Doctrine, but I just can't see that justifying our continued embargo.

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
That's a nice little list but it totally ignores the fact that the Clinton administration is as guilty of many of those things as the Bush administration.. you want to fault Bush for cutting a military budget? Look at Clinton first. ...But that list isn't about Clinton. Why do you have to bring that into everything? Bush fucked up... the fact that Clinton fucked up on different things makes Bush's fuck ups less important?

(And, once again, by "Bush" and "Clinton", I mean their administrations)

Originally posted by BeautifulLoser
...But that list isn't about Clinton. Why do you have to bring that into everything? Bush fucked up... the fact that Clinton fucked up on different things makes Bush's fuck ups less important?

(And, once again, by "Bush" and "Clinton", I mean their administrations) No.. my point is that the thread is entitled "Things you have to believe to be a Republican today" when in fact the Democrats are equally or more guilty of the same things. It's a biased and unfair statement.

Originally posted by Marginalia


Well, no, I don't see that as a legitimate argument. So Cuba was a threat closer to us...it doesn't seem to follow that we'd single them out, nor would we still be doing it. We fought a war in vietnam that took quite a few more lives that any expidition we've launched into Cuba (and there have been quite a few). China was absolutely a threat- a larger one, a nuclear-armed one, one that threatened us in the Korean War no less. They are, nevertheless, a substantial trade parter. Is it that we cannot live without them? Maybe.

Your theory smacks of the Monroe Doctrine, but I just can't see that justifying our continued embargo.
My implication is not necessarily that Cuba posed a greater threat than the others. My theory is that Cuba's proximity to/history with the US just makes it sting the US more than the others, to the point where it borders on a personal grudge with Castro. If anything, Castro's presence may be the only thing keeping the embargo in place, if only as a matter of principle (since obviously we haven't been able to do anything else that'll faze him). Lifting the embargo won't solve any problems for Cuba, but it would grant Castro an ideological victory for standing firm and thumbing his nose at the US for 40 years.

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
That's a nice little list but it totally ignores the fact that the Clinton administration is as guilty of many of those things as the Bush administration.. you want to fault Bush for cutting a military budget? Look at Clinton first.

so which is worse, reducing military personel during times of peace or cutting veteran's benefits during a time of war?

on a side note, here's an interesting article.

Bush's Army-or Bill's? (http://slate.msn.com/id/2082499/)

Originally posted by Nimrod's Son
No.. my point is that the thread is entitled "Things you have to believe to be a Republican today" when in fact the Democrats are equally or more guilty of the same things. It's a biased and unfair statement. That's fine. But you constantly bring Clinton into everything. Just say "Democrat". Like you said, "Things you have to believe to be a Republican <i>today</i>". Not 4 years ago.

Not really trying to arguing, just making an observation about your arguements. I'm done.

Originally posted by Corganist

My implication is not necessarily that Cuba posed a greater threat than the others. My theory is that Cuba's proximity to/history with the US just makes it sting the US more than the others, to the point where it borders on a personal grudge with Castro. If anything, Castro's presence may be the only thing keeping the embargo in place, if only as a matter of principle (since obviously we haven't been able to do anything else that'll faze him). Lifting the embargo won't solve any problems for Cuba, but it would grant Castro an ideological victory for standing firm and thumbing his nose at the US for 40 years.

I think that makes sense. It just seems that Castro is relatively defanged, the Cold War is over, and that we could relax the embargo which doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot. It does seem almost like a personal grudge at this point.

Originally posted by Debaser
wrong.

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

Uh, the embargo against Cuba remained in place during Clinton's presidency, and he also renewed China's status as most favored nation.

A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

Clinton helped chip away at abortion rights over his eight years in office despite his support from mainstream pro-choice organisations. The Democrats in the early 90s refused to pass the Freedom of Choice Act or repeal the Hyde Amendment, even when they held both houses of Congress.

If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

Abstinence-only sex education was required for funding under Clinton's welfare reform. There was to be no talk of condoms or birth control with poor mothers.

Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health
care to all Americans is socialism.

Clinton and Gore, despite their campaign promises in 1992, deleted plans for universal health care from the Democratic Party platform.

HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

Apparently both the Democratic and Republican parties feel this way, as both are inundated in corporate cash. Open Secrets says that during the 2000 election cycle, insurance companies coughed up $41,782,801 to the two parties, HMOs $8,324,181, and pharmaceutical companies $26,707,861. This money goes about 40-60 in favor of the Republicans.

A president lying about an extramarital affair is a impeachable
offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which
thousands die is solid defense policy.

The Democrats weren't behind Bush 100 percent? H(Con)R 114 giving Bush unlimited power to declare war flew through 392-11. Kerry is perhaps even more aggressive when it comes to Iraq, requesting 40,000 more troops in addition to 'staying the course.'

Government should limit itself to the power named in the Constitution, which ******* censoring the Internet.

Clinton was a firm believer in internet censorship, and he passed internet censorship bills during his presidency. 2000 VP Joe Lieberman was fanatical about attacking Hollywood and the video game industry because their content could be exposed to children.

Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a
conservative radio host. Then it's an illness, and you need our prayers for your recovery.

This statement is posed as if Clinton's racheting up of the so-called 'war on drugs' didn't exist. It certainly did to the exploding prison population (most of whom were minorities) who were incarcerated for drug offenses under Clinton's reign.

Pay for soldiers in combat has never actually dropped (as far as I know), and has gradually increased with every president.

only because there was such outrage.....

Published on Friday, August 15, 2003 by the San Francisco Chronicle
Troops in Danger Zones No Longer Face Pay Cut
Pentagon drops plans for scheduled rollback

by Edward Epstein

The White House quickly backpedaled Thursday on Pentagon plans to cut the combat pay of the 157,000 U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan after disclosure of the idea quickly became a political embarrassment.

The Pentagon's support for the idea of rolling back "imminent danger pay" by $75 a month and "family separation allowances" for the American forces by $150 a month collapsed after a story in The Chronicle Thursday generated intense criticism from military families, veterans groups and Democratic candidates seeking to unseat President Bush in 2004.

"We support extending the pay provisions," White House spokesman Jimmy Orr said late Thursday after a day in which Bush's political opponents bashed him for what they said was a callous attitude toward combat troops who are still suffering casualties.

"We intend to ensure they continue to receive this compensation at least at the current levels," the Defense Department said in a separate statement about members of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marines.

The issue stems from congressional action in April when the House and Senate increased the "imminent danger" pay for the first time in more than a decade to $225 a month from $150. The family allowance was raised from $100 to $250 monthly.

However, the increases, which were retroactive to last October, are set to expire on Sept. 30, the end of the current fiscal year, unless Congress and the president continue them.

Word of the pay cut plans were first disclosed by the Army Times, an independent newspaper for service members, which editorialized against the idea.

there were plans to decrease paychecks (which didn't come close to happening with any other president) and mistakes have been made that are affecting families at home...

Associated Press
June 14, 2004

A payroll mistake could leave the families of Arizona Army National Guard members more than $1,000 short on their next paycheck.

It won't show up in the Defense Department's budget, and it's rarely mentioned on network newscasts, but the war in Iraq and the war on terrorism carry a hidden cost on reservists and members of the National Guard who have been called to active duty. Besides the emotional burden, the deployments can put unexpected financial hardships on military families - sky-high telephone bills, unanticipated travel costs, and, perhaps most devastating: the loss of income from a full-time job.

Originally posted by homechicago


only because there was such outrage.....


"because" doesn't factor into it. The information is false. It is a lie. End of story.

Originally posted by jczeroman


"because" doesn't factor into it. The information is false. It is a lie. End of story.

The White House quickly backpedaled Thursday on Pentagon plans to cut the combat pay of the 157,000 U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan after disclosure of the idea quickly became a political embarrassment.

it was set to occur, that information is true. veterans cuts DID occur. the public reaction stopped the active combat paycuts. prove to me this information is a lie, that the information from the pentagon is false.

Originally posted by Ghetto_Squirrel


Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

Uh, the embargo against Cuba remained in place during Clinton's presidency, and he also renewed China's status as most favored nation.

A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

Clinton helped chip away at abortion rights over his eight years in office despite his support from mainstream pro-choice organisations. The Democrats in the early 90s refused to pass the Freedom of Choice Act or repeal the Hyde Amendment, even when they held both houses of Congress.

If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

Abstinence-only sex education was required for funding under Clinton's welfare reform. There was to be no talk of condoms or birth control with poor mothers.

Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health
care to all Americans is socialism.

Clinton and Gore, despite their campaign promises in 1992, deleted plans for universal health care from the Democratic Party platform.

HMOs and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

Apparently both the Democratic and Republican parties feel this way, as both are inundated in corporate cash. Open Secrets says that during the 2000 election cycle, insurance companies coughed up $41,782,801 to the two parties, HMOs $8,324,181, and pharmaceutical companies $26,707,861. This money goes about 40-60 in favor of the Republicans.

A president lying about an extramarital affair is a impeachable
offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which
thousands die is solid defense policy.

The Democrats weren't behind Bush 100 percent? H(Con)R 114 giving Bush unlimited power to declare war flew through 392-11. Kerry is perhaps even more aggressive when it comes to Iraq, requesting 40,000 more troops in addition to 'staying the course.'

Government should limit itself to the power named in the Constitution, which ******* censoring the Internet.

Clinton was a firm believer in internet censorship, and he passed internet censorship bills during his presidency. 2000 VP Joe Lieberman was fanatical about attacking Hollywood and the video game industry because their content could be exposed to children.

Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a
conservative radio host. Then it's an illness, and you need our prayers for your recovery.

This statement is posed as if Clinton's racheting up of the so-called 'war on drugs' didn't exist. It certainly did to the exploding prison population (most of whom were minorities) who were incarcerated for drug offenses under Clinton's reign. OMG STOP BRINGING UP CLINTON!!!

Originally posted by homechicago


The White House quickly backpedaled Thursday on Pentagon plans to cut the combat pay of the 157,000 U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan after disclosure of the idea quickly became a political embarrassment.

it was set to occur, that information is true. veterans cuts DID occur. the public reaction stopped the active combat paycuts. prove to me this information is a lie, that the information from the pentagon is false. UH, I believe the cuts were in the increases - meaning there wouldn't be as large of an increase.

It's the same as when one politician says the other party cut benefits to a particular group, when instead they simply made those befits increase less than they could have.

A woman in a hot air balloon realized she was lost. She lowered altitude and spotted a man in a boat below. She shouted to him, "Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where I am."
The man consulted his portable GPS and Replied, "You're in a hot air balloon approximately 30 feet above a ground elevation of 2346 feet above sea level.
You are 31 degrees, 14.97 minutes north latitude and 100 degrees, 49.09 minutes west longitude."
She rolled her eyes and said, "You must be a Conservative."
" I am," replied the man. "How did you know?"
"Well, answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and I'm still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help to me."
The man smiled and responded, "You must be a Liberal." "I am," replied the balloonist. "How did you know?"
"Well," said the man, you don't know where you are or where you're going. You've risen to where you are due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise that you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. You're in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but somehow, now it's my fault."

A day after supporting a plan to cut combat pay to U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Pentagon backtracked and supported a pay extension. http://www.military.com/MilitaryReport/0,12914,MR_Pentagon_081803,00.html

WASHINGTON -- The Department of Defense is attempting to rescind the elevated rates of combat pay currently being offered to troops both in Iraq and Afghanistan, reported the San Francisco Chronicle. http://www.nbcsandiego.com/employment/2406233/detail.html

In addition to turning people away from VA facilities en masse, the government is also gouging them with escalating out-of-pocket charges. Next year veterans will be paying roughly $1.3 billion of their own money on health care expenses, six times what they were paying when Bush took office. In addition, the government is using bureaucratic maneuvers to make it harder for veterans to use prescription drug benefits to which they are entitled. For example, an eligible person must see a VA doctor before he can use the drug benefit, even if he already has a prescription from his own doctor.
The author, Thomas Oliphant of the Boston Globe , also notes that

...it is his (Bush's) intention to let the government continue to save a few bucks by deducting veterans' disability payments from their military retirement benefits.
So how do you feel about your savings from the tax cut now?

Does this sound like strong support for the military?

The problem, however, is not cost estimates, it is what Bush has done to the hemorrhaging federal budget. There will never be any room for closing the gap between supply and demand in veterans' health care as long as Bush's priorities hold. As a practical matter, keeping the top marginal income tax rate at 36 percent and completely eliminating inheritance taxes on multi-million-dollar estates means there is no room for veterans.

both my grandparents served in the war. to raise costs would be one thing, but so radically in such short time, that is unpatriotic and cruel. at least paris hilton's estate won't have to pay taxes. she needs every cent to make ends meet, who cares about the high roller veterans?

maybe if competative bidding was done for rebuilding in iraq, we'd have the several billion dollars to say to the heroic veterans, "thank you, and we will continue to serve you for your sacrifices"

nimrod's son, i appreciate that you post with thought out disagreements. thank you.

while i understand that the increase was the object, the problem is that these people were told they would be receiving such pay. while you are working, would you enjoy people telling you that the income increase you currently have is being cut back? during the war, don't mess with people's money. of the billions that have been carelessly wasted, why punish servicepeople? let the money going to halliburton get delayed, miss THEIR payment dates....how come they always get paid in full with no glitches, yet our troops had to deal with payroll payment glitches? the pecking order of importance is wrong.

Originally posted by homechicago
nimrod's son, i appreciate that you post with thought out disagreements. thank you.

while i understand that the increase was the object, the problem is that these people were told they would be receiving such pay. while you are working, would you enjoy people telling you that the income increase you currently have is being cut back? during the war, don't mess with people's money. of the billions that have been carelessly wasted, why punish servicepeople? let the money going to halliburton get delayed, miss THEIR payment dates....how come they always get paid in full with no glitches, yet our troops had to deal with payroll payment glitches? the pecking order of importance is wrong. The difference here is that the government is <I>contractually obligated</i> to pay contractors X amount of dollars on a certain date. I work for a government contractor, it's the same idea.

The soldiers are not contractually guaranteed pay increases. Thus, if you're looking to streamline a budget, you can take a pay increase and "decrease the increase" which is something you cannot do with a contract.

<font color=#007AAA face="courier new">These threads are stupid.</font>

Originally posted by homechicago

it was set to occur, that information is true. veterans cuts DID occur. the public reaction stopped the active combat paycuts. prove to me this information is a lie, that the information from the pentagon is false.

There is really no need to have this discussion, if you would simply admit the obvious, we could be through. This is what the list says:

"The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay."

It says that both veteran's benefits and combat pay were slashed. I-T D-I-D N-O-T H-A-P-P-E-N. I am not arguing that it wasn't discussed or that there weren't full on plans to cut combat pay. I am arguing that those plans did not come to fruition and that the list is lying when it says they did.

Originally posted by homechicago


veterans cuts DID occur.

I am not debating that, I have never argued anything the contrary in a single word of a single post in this entire thread.

Originally posted by Mr. Rhinoceros
<font color=#007AAA face="courier new">These threads are stupid.</font>

agreed. like the wise chris rock says, it's stupid to think one "wing" can be right about everything. in real life, you have to be conservative about some things and liberal about others. unfortunatley that's the system democracy is stuck with and if you take every single belief and policy of one party to principle of course contradictions are going to arise.

Hey, you know what sucked?

This thread.

Hey, you know what sucked?

This thread.

Yeah my computer sucks, so I posted twice.

To make a point, of course