(Brian's Message Brought Over)

Fellow Pumpkin Fans

First, to anyone who has sent me an email and not received a response. I am sorry for that. I try to respond to any email that involves SP because SP is my escape from everything. In the past 4 months, I have been so busy that I really haven't had much to time listen to many SP/Zwan recordings, let alone search for old unsurfaced recordings or even make trades. I am a high school teacher, and school will be out in 6 weeks and I will once again have some free time to email, trade, search, communicate, etc. I am like Greg in the fact that I rarely post, but check the board frequently hoping to see some posts that are interesting to me. As someone mentioned, I enjoy the posts like what the tracklisting for the "25 Songs O'Pumkins" video is. Just ask Greg, of all the things I have a desire for, this is my number one want.

Anyway, enough of that. As Dan mentioned, I dug up a handful of old analog tapes and a few videos that I had not really seen on many people's list. I gave them to one person, but he was unable to transfer the stuff because of job and families situations, so then Dan volunteered to take on the daunting task. Although I have not heard any of the transfers yet, Dan has informed me about his thoughts on how they turned out, and I am really excited to hear some of these shows. So, first, I want to thank Dan for all his hard work. I always enjoy emailing people who share the same enthusiasm that I share with the band, and Dan was definitely excited about this project and hearing new shows. So, again, thanks Dan.

Now, as Greg mentioned, we went to the Billy Corgan solo show and before the show we were talking about what we want to hear and how we wished we knew what people had. When Greg and I start talking SP/Zwan and throwing out dates, and great versions of this song and that song, and our favorite songs, etc, we are true geeks. Just ask my fiancee, she will tell you what I nut I am when it comes to SP/Zwan, and she is right. I can still remember hearing my brother playing the Gish album in 1991 in his room and Bury Me being on. I asked him who the band was and I can still remember laughing at the band name. But, when that Bury Me solo came on at 3.28, I was flat out blown away and I was hooked for life. I still remember that day like it was yesterday. Okay, back to the point. Greg and I were talking about all the old school SP fans that have done so much for the trading community (we all know who they were and attempt to name them would just result in me leaving someone out). We started discussing what some of those people have that nobody knows about. We starting discussing that Towers of Rabble studio post, and the possibility of it being real and how many attacked the validity of the post. Why can't it be real? You know there is a studio version of it because Billy himself said he was going to put it on TAFH, but changed it at the last minute.

Greg and I talk about how there seem to be very few people making an effort to locate and seek out new things. Many of the old school fans have gotten older, have families, work professional jobs, and have moved out of the trading scene. I have no doubt they still love SP, but priorities have changed. I still attempt to look for stuff, but I don't have much time either. Geg and I talk about how if we were still in college, we would be searching for stuff like crazy because you have so much free time in college. It just doesn't seem like many are doing that though.

I am just a fan who loves to hear new things and wants to get everything. When I started going to SP shows a long time ago, half of them I wasn't even supposed to be at because I was underage, but I usually found a way in. I went for the music, and the music only. My mistake was that I never even thought about taping the shows, and I have been to at least 7 shows that have no recording known.

I also have spent time searching for things that people don't have. I can't say I have brought many things to the community (in fact, I haven't brought much in terms of what the old schoolers have done). But, if people would like to know (I have posted this list before), here is what I have found, but can't obtain a copy. Now, this list doesn't ******* stuff like we know exists like the Avalon.

-1988 Pulse Cable Access Video Session (complete sessions with the retakes of the songs that were played)

-1990/11/09 - Marquette University; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1991/10/22 - Atomic Records; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1991/10/22 - Central Park Ballroom; Milwaukee, WI (complete video)

-1992/03/27 - Marquette University; Milwaukee, WI, US_ (Pearl Jam encore w/ JC) (complete video)

-1992/06/09 - Unicorn; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1992/06/10 - Unicorn; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1992/06/11 - Club de Wash; Madison, WI, (complete video)

-1993/07/23 - Unicorn; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1993/07/28 - Metro; Chicago, IL, (complete video)

-1993/08/07 - Phoenix Center; Pontiac, MI, (complete video)

-1993/08/13 - Metro; Chicago, IL, (complete video)

-1993/10/04 - R&R Station; Madison, WI, (complete video)

-1993/10/15 - Oz; Seattle, WA, (complete video)

-1993/10/16 - Oz; Seattle, WA, (complete video)

-1993/12/09 - Aragon Ballroom; Chicago, IL, (complete video)

-1993/12/10 - Aragon Ballroom; Chicago, IL, (complete video)

-1994/03/25 - Palmer Auditorium; Davenport, IA, (complete video)

-1994/04/26 - Eagles Ballroom; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1994/06/18 - Double Door; Chicago, IL, (Star Children) (complete video)

-1994/07/09 - Fiddler's Green Amphitheater; Englewood, CO, (complete video)

-1994/07/11 - Sandstone Amphitheater; Bonner Springs, KS, (complete video)

-1994/07/12 - Harriet Island; St. Paul, MN, (complete video)

-1994/07/14 - Marcus Amphitheater; Milwaukee, WI, complete video)

-1994/07/15 - World Music Theater; Tinley Park, IL, complete video)

-1995/10/23 - Riviera Theater; Chicago, IL, (w/ Cheap Trick) complete video)

-copies of the master tapes of at least 15 days of Adore Rehearsals in the studio for the 1998 tour.

-two analog cassettes that Billy personally gave this person in 1993 with random studio and live stuff on. The person claims the songs ******* the time period of 88-93. Now, I have asked if it is Mashed Potatoes stuff, but the person doesn't know since the person doesn't know what Mashed Potatoes is.

Now, those are things I have found, but will never be able to get. Some of those shows we have, some we don't.

Anyone, I am up for doing what Greg said.

By the way, if anyone has tried emailing and didn't get a response, try again. My email hasn't changed.

Excuse all the babble, I could go on for hours.

Brian
bmuehlha@mccsc.edu

(Zerozwan's Message Brought Over)

wow, very interesting stuff. i must ask though, why are you so sure that you will never be able to obtain these shows? did you track all of these recordings right down to who actually owns a copy? or do you mean you just know that they are in existence?

i must say that it is exciting to know of recordings from the early days that aren't out there. a complete audience video of gish songs, before the album was released sounds incredible. that basically was an era of the band that has been left almost undefined (the year 1990) with only 4 known recordings from the whole year, one of which is impossible for the everyday fan to get their hands on.

anyway, i'll throw in a few thoughts/facts now on digging up new recordings.

not that i can say that i've tracked down any unknown pumpkins recordings myself (although i do have 1 zwan show that no one else has - not that anyone would care about that ), but i do know of a few uncirculated upgrades, as well as one of the leetest video hookups i've ever seen. so i may as well spill the beans.

1994 was a HUGE year for the pumpkins when it came to touring, and playing in bigger venus. it just doesn't seem right the amount of shows listed on spfc with no known recording info. shows that big with a band so popular at the time, you know that so many more of the shows must have been taped.

a recent find, which probably went unnoticed by most, was the addition of this show/recording info. pretty neat for a nice SS mic > DAT source to be uncovered 10 years after the actual show.

as well, check out the source info for the starplex amphitheatre shows from that year. 08/20 lists an 80 minute DAT tape recorded with a D7. if anybody wants to update their bootlists, the complete rig used was ECM-155 > D7 (i know this because i recently obtained a 1st gen DDC from the taper). 08/21 also lists an 80 minute DAT tape, but on most people's lists, AUD > (ana) > CDR is the lineage cited with unknown equipment. this recording was actually done with the following rig: SS DSM-6 > D7. same taper as the night before, but with borrowed mics. when this show was originally circulated, the taper was unable to make DDC's or even do DAT > CDR transfers, so he made a few tapes for his friends and that's how the show was spread. maybe not as exciting as a brand new show to listen to, but who wouldn't rather listen to a digitally transferred DAT > CDR copy? i know i would (hopefully one day ).

another upgrade i know about is from 04/27. i know the NAK-7000 > DTR-80P source is widely circulated, but there is another, superior source out there. i'm not sure if the other recording listed (CSB > D7) is correct (i've only seen it on one list), but i know that a source exists from the following rig: SS mic > D7, which is far superior to the NAK source. the guy who taped the starplex shows has a DDC-1 of that tape. i'm not sure if maybe the CSB source listed on spfc is actually the SS source, or if both are actually out there...

lastly, i will speak of the SP video hunt that i've been on for the last little bit.

when i began to seriously trade SP, i never really bothered to get into the video scene. i had my share of vids that i had purchased at record shows from bootleg vendors, or through local record stores (all of which were crappy high gen tapes that i forked out mad cash for ), but getting into the scene after it was already dying down was pointless, becuase tracking down 1st gen tapes was basically impossible... and i wasn't interested in watching crappy vid-10 (in LP mode) MCIS shows that were almost inaudible and had lines going accross the screen.

with the wake of dvd burners, my interest was swayed in the direction of video trading, however, becuase of the lack of quality loss. not that dvd transfers are lossless, but because dvds won't lose quality if they are copied correctly, so getting high quality vids was finally feasible. so, i made an ISO post on sharing the groove for pumpkins videos, or just people with pumpkins DVDs i didn't have, because the dvd trading scene is almost non-existent in the pumpkins community (at least compared to the audio scene). i was pleasantly surprised when i was responded to within minutes by someone who had a Hi8 clone of 10/21/93 that his friend had taped back in the day. i was quickly sent a miniDV clone of his tape, and a DVD is currently in the works (if my lazy ass friend wasn't so lazy... it would be done by now ). i was really excited about this find, because the video looks SOOO good.

since this discovery, the same guy who had that show sent me an e-mail listing all of the pumpkins videos that he had access to (he was given access to some crazy trader's collection from back in the day, who loved SP among other bands and had very impressive collections). needless to say, this was probably the most exciting find i'd made, and these videos are going to be put into production soon.

that's about all the exciting news from my end... hopefully it was interesting to some.

-tobin

PS. the zwan show i was speaking of is 04/25/03. no recording info listed, but i obtained a datM > cdr0 of this source: OKM-ll (Rock) > A3 > M1. i came accross this taper's list when i was searching for pumpkins dvds.... it sounds great though.

I will write mine a little bit later, but Brian, you never mentioned the Peony Park stuff....that was a great lead/find.

-GK

richard, could you go the previous thread and press "quote" before you copy and paste? that way the links that i *******d in the post will be there. :) i'll delete this post after you do that. :)

Why do you say its impossible for you/us to get recordings of the shows you listed?

ahh yes, the peony park ballroom.

speaking of such, where did 1/15/97 go?? i used to see it on bootlists ... the show seems to have fallen by the wayside into hoardom.

Did anything ever come out of this thread? http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?threadid=782&highlight=laughing+iguana

Greg,

Thanks for reminding me about Peony Park, 10/17/91. I forgot that one, and there might be others, so remind me if there are.

I began communicating with a Pearl Jam taper/fan about 2 years ago and he was telling me about this taper in the Omaha area that taped everything that went through there. This PJ fan told me this other guy taped SP at Peony Park in 1991. Now, I can't get the name of this guy and I have tried many different ways, but have been unsuccessful. He just said he won't release him name.

SPFC also lists Sp as playing in Omaha on 6/15/91, 10/7/93, and 1/15/97, but I don't know if this guy taped these shows.

Tobin, that 10/21/93 show sounds cool. Is it the complete set? I would be interested in doing a 2 cd trade with you for you 4/25/03 show.

Also, to all that ask why can't I get those old videos I mentioned. Well, quite simply because the guy who has them shot them for the band and Billy told him he wasn't allowed to release anything unless given permission.

At one gig towards the end of the SD Tour, Billy told this guy that he didn't care if he sold copies. After the band broke up a couple years back he approached Billy's management about releasing the tapes. His idea was to make them available at a reasonable cost with some proceeds going to a charity of Billy's choice. The guy felt it important to make them available cheaply to any fan who wanted them in order to cut out the secondary (bootleg/eBay) "rip-off" markets.

To his surprise he got an "OK"...provided he sign a "simple little
contract"...

The "simple little contract" stated that "sure, you can go ahead and sell copies but we can tell you to stop at any time & seize the masters".
When he dared to question their lawyer he was given a line of "Hey kid, we're doing you a favor. Don't ask questions and sign." According to him, "typical music industry lawyer bullsh*t."

It quickly became apparent to him that the "simple little contract" was a very thinly disguised attempt to screw him out of his tapes.

He told me that he doesn't know if Billy was behind all this or if it was management "protecting the client's interests" behind his back. He doesn't know know and he even said he would prefer to think not. He said he would like to think of Billy as the "very talented nice guy with a vision" (his description) who'd take the time to write a letter thanking him for sending him tapes of the shows...not some Rawk Star hiding behind lawyers trying to trick him out of my labors of love.

So, he gave Billy every show he taped.

That's why the tapes remain unseen.

Brian

The guy had to be smart enough to make copies of the tapes...

I posted here a year (or 2 or 3..can't remember) or so ago about releasing some Australian recordings. I have (had) some recordings of the 94 Big Day Out (BDO) shows and the 96 Perth show. Now excuse my complete ignorance of the overall bootleg scene...I tried to get into it, but I really only need to hear a song live once so I stopped...since got married, had a kid, moved up north, got divorced...and am now rediscovering my youth...sad fuck i am. I sent the original tapes to another guy in Australia to transfer so that everyone could get them (purely on the base that I use to read this forum and didn't like the exculsive club that exists here) - I assume he did this but I never followed them up - but i've received a few emails about it.....so igonre this if it's common. Now my tapes were never masters - I use to know the drummer from an Australian band called Ammonia - do you remember the song called drugs?? You know? "Drugs......and money...but there's nothing....you can do about it!" Anyway, my friend's sister use to date the drummer of that band - who played directly before the SP in all (most?) of their show at all of the 94 BDO shows on the same stage. So I've met the guy, but find it sketchy now what gen my tape must be - I dubbed it from my friend's copy whos sister it was after I requested a copy- so it might be 2nd gen, but at the very worst might be 3rd gen. (this was the SBD show). The SBD show contains 3 sets from 3 differnt bands (including SP and Ammonia).

They are the 94 Gold Coast and Perth BDO shows - Now one of them is SBD and one of them is very amateurish (recorded by me). Now to be very honest it's been a long time, and I can't remember which one I recorded and which one is the SBD (I may have recorded both...not sure....drug years :) But just to let you know they are in existance. And there are Pro copies somewhere as well - the ABC did a BDO show in 94 (which didn't show the SP) so they may have a video of them somewhere.

So I have - the Perth BDO show, the Gold Coast BDO show (one of which is a SBD), and an unreleased Perth 96 copy (worse than the one already circulating so no point). Now help me here - I have moved jobs a few time in recent years and have lost all contacts - but the guy who has my original tapes name starts with a G (Greyham rings a bell) - but I do have 2 copies at my parents house, so they can be dug up (after a 12 hour drive!!). They aren't DAT tapes....just poor ass K-mart job tapes. Ignore this if it's not elite (hello Assilin!!).

Hey coin, those shows as far as I know are uncirculated. I'd be way keen to get a hold of ANY BDO '94 shows, as I attended the Auckland show that year (and it was awesome).

I once tracked down a guy who taped the Auckland BDO '94 show on analogue tape, but he had lost the tape.

im from australia and i would also be really keen to get a hold of those bdo shows
this_is_shaun@hotmail.com

Nothing too big, but I got a copy of the Zwan show at the Aragon, their last US show. I'm not hoarding it or anything, I just haven't gotten a chance to trade it out yet.

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions
Nothing too big, but I got a copy of the Zwan show at the Aragon, their last US show. I'm not hoarding it or anything, I just haven't gotten a chance to trade it out yet. oh yeah, i have an audience recording of the last zwan show, but since there is a perfect and complete fm of it around i don't think i'll even transfer that one...

I know this stuff isn't exclusive to me, but I'm not sure whether they're in general circulation, and some further info on them would be nice.

I received a disc in a trade a few years ago with some random things on it, and two of the tracks were perfect sounding transfers of both Sun (remix) and She (live) from the TSP demo tape. I have never heard of such a high quality transfer of this tape. I'm sure someone at some point made the high quality transfer and maybe this is common among certain people, but I'm pretty sure it's not in general circulation. If anyone can shed some light on this I would be interested.

I also got another disc years ago which has perfect transfers of the 4 spoken tracks from the Moon demo tape. This may be more common but my copy is still the only one I have ever come across besides the person I got it from. I think it might be from the Ignoffo tape, which I don't have the full thing of. The tracklisting of the Ignoffo tape as it was told to me did not list these. Any info on this would also be kind of interesting.

These 6 are the only tracks on either tape that are very important anymore, as the rest of TSP and Moon are available on MP or RTS.

are those spoken bits in spanish?

if so i've got them on a silver back but they're at home so i can't check the quality. from what i remember it's pretty fine tho.

i've got a tape from 1989 that may be of some use , check your pm mr dead. (and if it's useful it will get out no worries)

Originally posted by dean moriaty
are those spoken bits in spanish?



It´s on the "may We Have a Record Contract, Please" commercial bootleg. I have the original bootleg with me, if there´s any need to share it or something.

I have this Virgin Radio Zwan interview which my friend taped for me which I haven't seen on circulation apart from in wma form and thats no use. I don't think its the best recorded tape quality however, but was taken from when the band came to England, a few days after the Shepherd's Bush Empire gig I believe. Not sure how much people care for interviews though.

All right, all right…this is exactly what I wanted to get started. I wanted to see some conversations be talked about and to be honest, I thought there would be more excited people. We are talking about Adore studio rehearsals here people!!! Plus, I like how the thread regarding that Laughing Iguana got raised again…I will not forget how excited I was when I first read that, but too bad nothing that I know came about from it. Well, it is time for me to add my two cents so here goes:

Things I have: I am not meaning to boast or brag or anything, just wanted to let you know what I physically have, because there are a ton of leads out there, but if I had a nickel for every “sure, I’ll get you a copy” I have heard I would be able to buy Billy’s stash. I have been fortunate enough to receive the Avalon show, the I Fall Demo, all of the 2000 soundboards (except Munich), and the 8.25.90 video and audio.

Rumors & Leads: This is the longest section and I have been working on some of this stuff for years…as Brian has said, my priorities have changed, but I still love the band and the music. I have talked to a lot of old schoolers and I remember one guy told me, which has been the most true thing I have ever heard about researching is that the most interesting stories and leads come out of the opening bands…so this is what I have heard of:

-Probably the best find in a long time by a good friend of mine is an Avalon Booking Tape from 1988. To make a long story short (and it is a good story) this guy who used to do promotions in Chicago has a tape straight from Billy with Bob English’s phone number on it (don’t bother-it’s old and according to the guy “Bob is always moving”) and had five songs on it. My friend and I went over to this guys house and physically heard and saw the tape. The J-card was written in Billy’s handwriting and had There It Goes, My Eternity, Spiteface (live), She (live) and Under Your Spell. I think that the Spiteface and She were clearly designated as “live” while the other’s were not. I didn’t get too excited as we have all heard these songs before, but when he played them, I realized that it was special. The There It Goes, My Eternity and Under Your Spell were all from Billy’s Father’s Home Studio sessions. It sounded like the exact same drum machine and sound as the I Fall. The quality was good and also from what I could tell, the She and Spiteface sounded GREAT and were different versions than any I have heard. Now, when was this tape from? Well, as much as my friend and I could tell, it had to be around October time frame. I really don’t think the Spiteface and She was from 10-5 either. The guy promised us a dub of the tape and scans of the J-card, but I have not heard from him in months…

-Have a copy of the Turnips Video-complete.

-Looked for Octavia Kincaid from MP (WNUR Interviewer). Billy mentions a tape that he gives her, being “Bedroom Stuff.” The last I heard she was in Texas, wrote to every Octavia Kincaid in Texas and turned up nothing. Heard she was “hot with blue hair.”

-Heard from a reliable source that there is a professional video and soundboard tape of 10-5-89 at the Avalon. This is the one that I really want, but have never had time to look for it. SBD 1989 anyone?

-Found the taper for the 4.23.89, 11.23.88, and 10.5.88 show that was given to Eric. He promised me a DAT copy straight from the master, but he said he has misplaced the tape. The guy has taped in Chicago for 15 years and has over 3,000 shows. Said he always made it a point to tape the opening bands and not the headliner mostly. He was at about 6 shows that were never taped (he knew the Avalon owners), but didn’t like the Pumpkins so never taped them.

-Tried to get a tape of “Freefest”…you know “Coming to you live at Freefest…Smashing Pumpkins kick ya ass…what a party eh?” Yeah, that…I tracked down the guy who organized the whole thing and his sound guy. The sound guy left the last day before the Pumpkins went on, and he knows of no tapes. Quote from a band member that played Freefest, “The S.P's went on before us and since it was outdoors and was kind of a seat of the pants operation, the P.A. quit a couple times on them, Billy got mad and they walked offstage. In fairness to him, they were just starting to get a big name and I think he thought it made them look amateurish.”…J Awesome….

-Heard that someone who works at the Metro has a ton of Siamese Dream practice tapes…

-Bought a promo from a guy who’s buddy used to DJ at the Avalon and he said that he was at some record industry show or something back in 1988-1989 and Caroline had all the “Box’s” on a table. The guy didn’t know what they were for so never bothered to ask how to get one. I have never seen one of these, anyone else have?

-Know there is a video to the 2000 Soundboard Munich show….

-Found the DJ to the 3.16.89 WZRD show, but really never pursued that one. For as much as everyone didn’t like him, he was pretty popular in Chicago.

-Heard that Joe Shanahan has a six foot 3-D Gish Platinum Award of the cover art in his office…don’t know if this is true…

-Heard that Bob English was actually the one to come up with the band name.

I also have names upon names of people that I just haven’t gotten around to research. I can’t think of much else off the cuff…if you have any questions, let me know, I will be happy to answer them.

-GK

-Heard that Joe Shanahan has a six foot 3-D Gish Platinum Award of the cover art in his office…don’t know if this is true…

i know a guy who's been given a guided tour of the metro (by joe)including Joe's office. i'll ask him about that for you. as for the rest it's very interesting. thanks a lot.

if you want any help chasing leads (if you have a lot of names etc to trawl through) then i'm willing to lend a hand or i can pass you on to a couple of people who despite being 'leet' would be sure to not horde.

thanks again,

Thom

oh and the avalon booking tape. if you've been to his house could you not just drop round and ask? maybe take some shit with you and transfer it there? it's definately one of the most exciting things i've heard of lately

Originally posted by dean moriaty
oh and the avalon booking tape. if you've been to his house could you not just drop round and ask? maybe take some shit with you and transfer it there? it's definately one of the most exciting things i've heard of lately

The guy lives in California, and the only reason he was in Chicago was his parents were there and he was helping them move to California. He was there for a couple of days after that, and he emailed us right after he got back, but everything else has gone unreturned. I should really try emailing him to see if he is alive...

-Gk

e.mail him now! the idea of getting that tape is making me excited. i think i need a few beers to calm myself.

oh and how did you first get in touch with him? if it's friend of a friend kind of situation then you could always try going through that route again or whatever...

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
Tobin, that 10/21/93 show sounds cool. Is it the complete set? I would be interested in doing a 2 cd trade with you for you 4/25/03 show.
no, it's not complete. the guy's batteries died during the last song of the main set (cherub rock, i believe). i'm fairly postive it's the AUD/(vid)/60m source listed on spfc, but i know for sure that it was shot with a Hi8 camera. i've only seen a clip of this video cause i sent the clone to fares as soon as i got it (i have nothing to transfer it with). how's the project coming along fares? :rolleyes:

and i'd definately be into trading for the BC zwan show. unfortunately my drive isn't burning cds right now, but i can rip it definately and we can do it via my ftp if you want...

let me know and we can work something out (please send a link to your list too or a text list if that's more complete).

zerozwan@hotmail.com

and you can check out most of my stuff here:

http://www.geocities.com/zerozwansp

i don't have "everything" on there though, cause i'm not as ballsy as richard and i'm not telling what i have!! :D

-tobin

Originally posted by zerozwan
i'm not as ballsy as richard and i'm not telling what i have
ok ok, i'll say one thing. i have a copy of the zwan blue note video on dvd (transferred from a 1st gen tape) that i recently added sweet menus and synched audio too. i WAS gonna torrent this cause it's so lame that it's hoarded, but decided against it. i will trade it out though, if people want it (no b&p's though, i have zero time).

(copied from other thread)

usually, only someone who has hoarded shows would think that the 'hoarder vs sharing' debate is old and tired.

as for the rest of it. it's really not true. if it were, then myself, along with at least 10+ other traders i personally know(and know of) would have all of these little hoarded shows that apparently are hoarded due to "people not trying hard enough to find new material". or "people being unappreciative & greedy". i know people who have spent years trying to hunt down old SP material but have just never been fortunate enough to have a lead go through for them. theres an old school trader i know whos name was dennis, who had leads on the taper of at least a dozen RHCP shows back when SP opened, who had the full SP, PJ, and RHCP sets from every show he taped. obviously, that didnt go through. i would have snagged them asap and traded them out. keeping them to myself in hopes that someone else would have traded me something rare in the process would have been pointless, or at least now i realise this, since thats not the reason people keep things to themselves anymore.
i'll mention brian since he seems so relevant in all of this. what he has done speaks for itself. obviously just as obsessed a fan as i am, who just hasnt been fortunate enough to get ahold of anything new. same with dan, whom i lent out 3 of these newer shows out to for transfering. as for myself, i've probably spent way too much of my time trying to dig up old SP gems. you can ******* this in the other thread if youd like. but heres some of the things i found, or had leads to in the past.

02.08.92 Riverside - Newcastle, UK {DAT master}
02.10.92 Boardwalk - Manchester, UK {DAT master}
02.04.96 Palace - Los Angeles {DAT}
09.08.96 Civic Center - Providence, RI {ANA master}
10.23.96 Hilton Coliseum - Ames, IA (had leads on two different DAT recordings straight from the tapers)
11.17.96 Miami Arena - Miami {MD}
07.08.97 Spodek - Katowice, PL {ANA}
08.07.00 Saskatchewan Place - Saskatoon, CA {DAT master}

so, we can sit here and say that we wouldnt share any of these recordings with people since they dont deserve them, due to not putting in enough time or effort, but we know it's not true. only results get you anything thats hoarded, regardless of how much time you put in. either that, or the obvious(and most popular way) to get ahold of anything worn out like avalon is being a close personal, and trusted friend of someone who has it, even if you've done nothing for the community. or you can hoard and say it's because people are unappreciative. well, believe it or not, the vast majority of traders rarely even visit message boards like these, let alone posting on them. if you sense a lack of appreciation for the mere reason that "my thread announcing the release of this and so-so" doesnt get enough "thank you!!!" replies, then you obviously need to widen your horizon of what trading communities really are. people dont think of how many people will get the show they released in years to come, and how many people who might not even be traders will get ahold of the show...and will enjoy and appreciate it, even if they dont realise who let it out in the first place.
so hey, if you want to hoard, then hoard. enjoy it. just dont give reasons for it that are obviously not true. and dont accuse anyone who asks "why arent you sharing that" to be a whiner right off the bat, since thats taking the easy way out.

anyways, if anyone here wants to get some of these new shows asap, then just drop me a PM in another week or two since i'm the first person getting these from dan. w00t~


__________________
"MSD is how we be" - bmc

Bootlegs R us

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Side Note: Man, don't sound so negative..:) The thought of more 92 shows are exciting!

Originally posted by jlo

It´s on the "may We Have a Record Contract, Please" commercial bootleg. I have the original bootleg with me, if there´s any need to share it or something.
The quality of this boot is shitty. I believe the spoken parts may also be on the Sound of Turnips boot. Also shitty. What I'm talking about sounds perfect 10/10.

the boot that i have with it on is neither of those. but it still probably sounds shitty although i remember it being pretty good.

i'll get my mum to post it down for me and have a listen...

oh, and here's the list of videos that hopefully will go into production soonish:

Smashing Pumpkins 1992-01-28 Koln, Germany 98 9 Close - 1st generation
Smashing Pumpkins 1992-08-29 Reading Fest., U.K. 45 9- Close - 1st generation
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-02-09 Fraufurt, Germany 90 9+ 1st gen, pro-shot, great!!!
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-08-12 Chicago, IL + TV clips live 65 9+/10- pro-shot,1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-09-02 Frankfurt, Germany 90 9 2nd. gen. 3 camera angle, great!
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-10-01 SNL Rehearsal, NYC 40 9 pro-shot, 2nd gen
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-10-21 Los Angeles, CA. (Palladium) 67 9- (Close) 1st Gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-11-20 Washington, DC 95 9 very close,tripod(nice),1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-12-08 Chicago, IL 60 9 pro-shot 1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-01-01 Saturday Nite Live Rehearsals 40 10 2nd gen,super!(exact date not accurate)
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-02-24 Munich, Germany 80 10 1st gen. pro shot
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-02-24 Munich, Germany 65 9/9- 2nd gen, multi camera
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-04-15 Williamsburg, Va. 100 9/9- 1st gen. waist up close, tripod
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-04-18 Albany, NY 72 9- 2nd gen, close
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-07-07 Las Vegas, NV 75 9- 1st gen , stage view
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-08-06 Randalls Island, New York City 80 9/9- very close,tripod shot,2nd gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-02 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 1st gen,very close,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-03 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 1st gen,very close,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-06 Washington DC 135 9/9- 1st gen,tripod shot,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-26 Rio, Brazil (Pro-Shot) 70 10 1st gen,acoustic/electric,recommended!
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-30 San Diego, CA 100 9- 1st gen,raw,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-02-07 San Francisco, CA 100 9- 1st gen,close,nice,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-04-07 Dusseldorf, Germany (PRO) 75 10 1st gen,pro-shot,super!
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-06-16 San Francisco, CA (Pro-Shot) 37 9+/10- 2nd gen,pro-shot,looks amazing,recommended
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-07-10 Landover, MD 115 9/9+ tripod/close, last show before O.D.
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-07 Philly, PA 120 9- 2nd gen,close,nice,new line-up
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-14 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 2nd gen,almost head to toe close
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-22 Minneapolis, MN 95 9- 1st gen,close,New drummer
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-05-23 London, UK (Pro-Shot) 90 10 pro-shot, master, new stuff & old, hot!
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-19 Toronto, Canada (Pro-Shot) 95 10 1st gen, pro-shot,intimate & Int.
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-27 Washington, DC 120 9- 1st gen, real close, new/old stuff
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-28 Philly, PA 122 9 1st gen., very close
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-30 Phily, PA 122 9 pro-shot, master, new stuff & old, hot!
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-08-01 RadioCityMusicHall, NYC 123 9/9- 2 cam mix,tripod,very close,diff version of songs
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-08-19 Santiago, Chile [Pro] 145 10 Pro Shot, 1st gen, perfect.
Smashing Pumpkins 1999-10-30 San Fran (10/30-31 Pro) 60 10- Pro-shot,acoustic,2sets,great
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-05-06 Sunrise, FL 135 9/9- 1st gen, super close, nice
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-06-30 Tokyo, Japan 115 10 pro-shot, 1st gen, mint, farewell show
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-01 Amsterdam, Holland (pro-shot) 130 9+ 200 final tour,pro-shot,mint
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-20 Montreal, Canada 47 10 1st gen., pro-shot, festival show



now, obviously some of these dates are off (way off in some cases ie. 2000-12-20 :erm ), but by the looks of it these videos should kick ass.

I wouldn´t call it "shitty". I can´t compare with yours but, to me, the sound is very good and clear!!! I could send to you one track, via hub and see what you´re opinion.

Originally posted by Dead

The quality of this boot is shitty. I believe the spoken parts may also be on the Sound of Turnips boot. Also shitty. What I'm talking about sounds perfect 10/10.

Originally posted by zerozwan

ok ok, i'll say one thing. i have a copy of the zwan blue note video on dvd (transferred from a 1st gen tape) that i recently added sweet menus and synched audio too. i WAS gonna torrent this cause it's so lame that it's hoarded, but decided against it. i will trade it out though, if people want it (no b&p's though, i have zero time).

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/positive6.jpg

Ooooooh, a first gen VHS!!!!! Thats sooooo rare!

Guess I should also mention I have the master VHSc-s to 4-5-2002, 12-12-2002 and 3-23-2003, and a miniDV-M > DVDr of 12-11-2002. Unfortunately, I can't trade any of em.

hey starlight, i like you and all (i really do you've been very helpuf when i've had vid related queries) but this thread is supposed to encourage openess. i'd rather people didn't feel they couldn't post their info on an item they thought was rare cause they're scared of being mocked or whatever.

but as i say this isn't against you, just a general point

Originally posted by dean moriaty
hey starlight, i like you and all (i really do you've been very helpuf when i've had vid related queries) but this thread is supposed to encourage openess. i'd rather people didn't feel they couldn't post their info on an item they thought was rare cause they're scared of being mocked or whatever.

but as i say this isn't against you, just a general point

I know, me and Tobin are buddies, I'm just playin with him.

if there wasn't a problem about the 1st gen VHS then vinny wouldn't have frantically emailed me when he saw it on my list, demanding to know where i got it from.

oh, and if you're so leet than why do you keep bugging me for avalon? isn't it on your shelf?

(oh snap)

ok then apologies. but the general point stands i suppose that people should be encouraged to share any into just incase. if it's already widely circulated or whatever then nevermind.

been gone the past few days, and this is one of the most interesting threads i've seen on netphoria in a long time. Things have been a bit hectic cause of my band schedule the past month. All the sweet stuff that is being mentioned in this thread would be so awesome to get a hold of.

I know how alot of sp fans are busy with jobs and such, but i'm still a high school student, thus i have tons of free time. If anyone needs help tracking down a lead, or helping circulate some of the new material being shared, i'd be glad to do it, if i get ahold of it, i'd help share it through B&P's too.

Also, someone mentioned earlier about how alot of old fans don't still post on the sp boards. In the live nirvana community, we have tracked down quite a few tapers from back in the day by posting threads on various kinds of boards, such as a big soccer board over in the U.K. we found a guy with a master nirvana tape that wasn't in circulation. It's just a thought, but maybe we should track down some people who have seen sp live, and the possibily of tracking down some recordings though posting on other kinds of boards.

Originally posted by jlo
I wouldn´t call it "shitty". I can´t compare with yours but, to me, the sound is very good and clear!!! I could send to you one track, via hub and see what you´re opinion.

No thanks, I said it was shitty because I have it and have heard it. Maybe it's not totally shitty but it's not very good according to my memory.

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions
Unfortunately, I can't trade any of em.
Damn, you sure like to go around showing off all the cool things you have that you 'unfortunately can't trade'. :noway:

Just an observation. ^

Originally posted by Dead

Damn, you sure like to go around showing off all the cool things you have that you 'unfortunately can't trade'. :noway:

Just an observation. ^

A couple of notes:

-This is an informational thread, if you don't want to trade, you don't have to.

-I don't want anyone's names...just info!

-Tobin, you said something about not being as balsy as me...just think of it this way man, we are struggling to get 50 posts on any topic these days...the band has been out of circulation for 3+ years now...a lot of the fans are gone...a lot of the people that promised things to other people don't really care that much anymore...what is the harm in mentioning them? We are not asking for trades, just info! The video list you put up was awesome! Brian's post with all those shows is great!

Keep it going guys, now only if I could get a hold of Fresko and Fares again...

-GK

Originally posted by Richard D. James
-This is an informational thread, if you don't want to trade, you don't have to.
My comment was directed at Bill due to the fact that he regularly goes on and on about all the amazing videos he has but is not allowed to share, and the fact that the only reason he posted here was to show off that he had better stuff than Tobin. It was annoying.

If he wants so share info, then share it, but there's no need to make fun of someone because you have all this better stuff than them.

Originally posted by Dead

My comment was directed at Bill due to the fact that he regularly goes on and on about all the amazing videos he has but is not allowed to share, and the fact that the only reason he posted here was to show off that he had better stuff than Tobin. It was annoying.

If he wants so share info, then share it, but there's no need to make fun of someone because you have all this better stuff than them.

Cool Sean, cool...this begs the question though, what makes "better stuff?" One early non-circulating video (say 10-5-89) to me beats every MC show out there...:)

-GK

Originally posted by Richard D. James
Cool Sean, cool...this begs the question though, what makes "better stuff?" One early non-circulating video (say 10-5-89) to me beats every MC show out there...:)

-GK
I wouldn't mind checking that out. :eek:

Originally posted by Richard D. James
this begs the question though, what makes "better stuff?"
certainly not zwan things. :rolleyes:

and richard, i understand why you'd feel comfortable posting cool things that you have, it's just that i don't want to feel like i'm bragging posting things i know that i'm never ever going to give to anyone else. not that i'm saying that you're coming off bragging, because you're not, i understand your point, it's just how i feel about it. :)

Dead, me and Tobin go back and forth on eachother about everyday through AIM, its just fun. I wasn't trying to up him, he can probably up me if anything.

You know, I got all these tapes from Vinny. Remember Vinny who you banned from the hub, bitched at for selling Zwan bootlegs, etc etc? Wow, and I was nice to him and got to borrow all his masters and any tapes i wanted, I wonder why. And I only have to hoard the masters. He wanted me to hoard everything of his, like 5-15-96 promo VHS-M>DVD, his Frogs DVDs, the low gen '666' tape he sent me, etc. But, I convinced him to lemme atleast share those. I've also put how many SP and Zwan DVDs into circulation, and am continuing to get more and more tapes. I have 2 masters in hand, 5-6 and 5-8 2000 that will be circulating hopefully soon (need to borrow a digital-8 or hi-8 cam first), I've transferred a bunch of tapes, but the only person who seems to care is Tobin, so the only person who has gotten any copies so far is him.

Anyways, sorry for kind of going off there, but it pisses me off that I bought a DVD burners years ago and equiptment just to make SP DVDs, and I've put a lot of shows into circulation. But no one seems to really care that I have, I just get yelled at for hoarding shows, yet many of you hoard probably 10x what I have thats 'rare.'

is this vinny giordano you're talking about? I remember the big fuss about him with the video selling stuff. I remember him from a trade. I think i messed up quite a bit at some point, he stayed nice and polite, and things turned out ok.

Back on topic: There's an incomplete FM broadcast of the 012400 Vredenburg show going about on bootlegs ("Vredenburg" for instance). The original FM broadcast *******d an interview. I recorded the entire thing, MDs-JE520 MD deck. Nothing shocking. I think one other person has it, but that's an analog transfer.

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions
Dead, me and Tobin go back and forth on eachother about everyday through AIM, its just fun. I wasn't trying to up him, he can probably up me if anything.

You know, I got all these tapes from Vinny. Remember Vinny who you banned from the hub, bitched at for selling Zwan bootlegs, etc etc? Wow, and I was nice to him and got to borrow all his masters and any tapes i wanted, I wonder why. And I only have to hoard the masters. He wanted me to hoard everything of his, like 5-15-96 promo VHS-M>DVD, his Frogs DVDs, the low gen '666' tape he sent me, etc. But, I convinced him to lemme atleast share those. I've also put how many SP and Zwan DVDs into circulation, and am continuing to get more and more tapes. I have 2 masters in hand, 5-6 and 5-8 2000 that will be circulating hopefully soon (need to borrow a digital-8 or hi-8 cam first), I've transferred a bunch of tapes, but the only person who seems to care is Tobin, so the only person who has gotten any copies so far is him.

Anyways, sorry for kind of going off there, but it pisses me off that I bought a DVD burners years ago and equiptment just to make SP DVDs, and I've put a lot of shows into circulation. But no one seems to really care that I have, I just get yelled at for hoarding shows, yet many of you hoard probably 10x what I have thats 'rare.'


hey starlight,

i'm very interested in getting some vids from you (i've only recently got a dvd player because i'm a fool) Anyway i can't torrent dvds cause i haven't got a writer so some kind of b+p style affair with you would be ideal.

pm or e.mail me thomas.jones@queens.ox.ac.uk

laters.

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions
*snip*

I too would be interested in a b&p style affair, possibly even 2:1.

(Clipped from Andrew Fogelsong's Post in another thread)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
-1994/06/18 - Double Door; Chicago, IL, (Star Children) (complete video)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This exists?!? I love this show.

Brian, I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to talking SP trading/bootlegs/shows etc... I'm sure I'd be pretty rusty when it comes to my knowledge, since I haven't done much trading or talking SP in the last two years. As far as recordings that I know exist, and let me say that it's not nearly as exciting as Brian's list, here's what I've come across but could not obtain:


(from a guy who used to post on Tapers-Filmers a few years back. He flaunted that fact that he had these shows.)
10AUG92 328 Performance Hall-Nashville,TN 90m 7.5 (AMD1) AIWA
ANA(M)>DAT-GREAT SETLIST/SHOW-CRAZY!
23OCT93 UCSB Robertson Gym-Santa Barbara,CA 100m 8.0 (DDC1) D7/SS
09DEC93 Aragon Ballroom-Chicago,IL 90m 7.0 (DDC1) D3/SS
25MAR94 Palmer Auditorium-Davenport,IA 100m 8.0 (DDC2) D7/SS
27MAR94 Memorial Hall-Kansas City,MO 100m 8.0 (DDC2) D7/SS
01APR94 South Park Meadows-Austin,TX 90m 6.5 (DDC1) D7/CSB
23MAY94 Draf-en-Renbaan/Pinkpop Festival
Landgraaf,Netherlands 52m 7.0 (DDC2) no info yet
21AUG94 Starplex Amphitheater-Dallas,TX 77m 8.0 (DDC2) D7/SS
25AUG95 Reading Festival-Reading,England 90m 7.5 (DDC2) D7/ecm909

(from the taper, whose name escapes me. He lives(lived) in Champaign, and I e-mailed him for several months, but he was pretty bad at communicating on a regular basis. I got his name from Chris Sakamoto)
3/23/93 Redbird Arena, Bloomington AM
6/27/96 Market Square Arena, Indianapolis, IN DM
10/25/96 Assembly Hall, Champaign DM
6/23/97 Double Door, Chicago DM

(from some guy I found by searching the DAT-Heads archives. He responded once, and then stopped all communication. His e-mail address was bunk a few months later.)
11/01/91 Boston University/Walter Brown Arena 45 Aud D-3 9.1 1 Sony PC-62
04/19/94 Fitchburg, MA Wallace Civic Center 80 Aud D-6 9.3 M Sony ECM-144
09/08/96 Providence, RI Civic Center 125 Aud DAT 9.3 M Sony ECM-144
11/06/96 Worcester, MA Centrum 130 Aud DAT 9.4 M Pansonic Custom's

Also, I found a guy who taped several shows in Milwaukee from 90-95ish, but he's 40-something, has a family, etc... Pretty bad at the communication thing.

Is Paulo Vieria still hoarding that good copy of the full 6/29/93 FM? I still have a 1 min clip of Kooks he sent me that sounds amazing.

Thanks for this trip down memory lane. I always will be a hardcore pumpkins fan, even though I never listen to them anymore.

i have no problem getting some dvd shows out to people if they have nothing to trade... but i'm not gonna do pure b&p's.... i'm broke and i always need more blanks, so if people want to send me two blanks for every one disc i have to burn for them... i'll do that. however i don't have time to burn like 20 discs for people... but i'll do like up to 4 discs for them (8 blanks).

http://www.geocities.com/zerozwansp/DVDLIST

first come, first serve, and i only want japan made blanks. taiyo yuden or mitsui please... anything else is useless to me, and i will send back to you.

this offer will probably only apply to the first 2 or 3 people that email me, because i'm always working on new dvds and such and i work 6 days a week and don't have all the time in the world.

-tobin

Originally posted by Richard D. James
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
-1994/06/18 - Double Door; Chicago, IL, (Star Children) (complete video)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have the Frogs set from this show, with Billy on guitar a few songs. I just need to author the DVD, and I'll trade out some copies.

BTW, for people requesting DVDs, I really don't have time to do 'free' trades. I'll trade DVDs for CDrs of shows though, and if you would send 2 blanks a disk plus postage back I'd even do that. BTW, here is my page

www.tapetrader.com/superb0lly

I still have about 40 DVDs to add, only 1 or 2 Pumpkins though.

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions

Anyways, sorry for kind of going off there, but it pisses me off that I bought a DVD burners years ago and equiptment just to make SP DVDs, and I've put a lot of shows into circulation. But no one seems to really care that I have, I just get yelled at for hoarding shows, yet many of you hoard probably 10x what I have thats 'rare.'
Ah you have a point there. I didn't mean it too seriously but I take it back anyway. Relax, guy.

Originally posted by zerozwan


you've got mail

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions


you've got mail

By the way, I can trade the not for trade items for rare stuff, Vinny just believed that it took him a lot of effort to film the shows, since they were all stealthed and whatnot, and he wanted something good in return or nothing at all :) I know Greg also technically could trade 8-25-90, but it also took him a lot of effort to get, so I understand that he doesn't want to.

starlight and zerozwan, thanks to both of you. i'd love to get some shows, a quick question tho, i know that paying is frowned upon but would it be ok if i used paypal to send the money for the discs and postage (at 2:1)? it's just a whole lot easier for me to not have to find the right kind of DVD's (seeing as i'd have to buy them by mail order anyway)

let me know and then i'll peruse your lists some more.

thanks a lot,

Thom

I totally thought you name was Dean.

But sending some paypal money instead of actual blanks would be OK by me, its easier on both parties, and its not really selling.

I have 2 masters in hand, 5-6 and 5-8 2000 that will be circulating hopefully soon (need to borrow a digital-8 or hi-8 cam first), [/B]

i can help you out with that

jason@chietsmith.org

Originally posted by Jason Smith


i can help you out with that

jason@chietsmith.org

Thanks, I'm supposed to be borrowing a camera, I just need to give this one guy a call.

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions


Thanks, I'm supposed to be borrowing a camera, I just need to give this one guy a call.

If it falls through, I have a digital8 camera. I'd be happy to help out.

These days, I think the only 1337 things I have are several 2000 SBDs, my precious 1/29/92, and Avalon.

I'm not looking to do a leet trade or anything, but does anyone have any audio recordings that I don't have? I'm only looking for shows with known generation info.

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palace/3941/sp.html

i am not bitching. i am not. i repeat that.

but, what is the deal with avalon? it seems like so many people have it and it's not that great so why is it not traded opening? i don't trade much anymore, i really only tape but i bet if i put some work into it i could get it. i just don't see the fuss over it anymore.

Originally posted by ******
i am not bitching. i am not. i repeat that.

but, what is the deal with avalon? it seems like so many people have it and it's not that great so why is it not traded opening? i don't trade much anymore, i really only tape but i bet if i put some work into it i could get it. i just don't see the fuss over it anymore.

I was talking about this yesterday. I kind of wish avalon would leak already, not really because I want it, but because it's so many people focus on it, like it's the only thing out there worth having. I'd rahter it be out there and everyone have it so we can move on.

The other thing I realized yesterday is the new collectors who have no clue about great stuff that is out that was never even hoarded. All they focus is on is the few things they can not have.

on that note...

seeing as i'm pretty new to audio trading can you reccomend me a list of things to get from the hub. I've been seeking out tracks and a few concerts i really wanted but as to where i go from here i'm a bit stumped seeing as this community is lucky enough to have literally hundreds of circulating shows. i'm mainly interested in performance over quality so long as it's pretty audible. maybe a couple of shows per year or tour. esp up to whatever the highlights of the sd tour were.

i'd appreciate that a lot.

thanks.

Originally posted by Rider


I was talking about this yesterday. I kind of wish avalon would leak already, not really because I want it, but because it's so many people focus on it, like it's the only thing out there worth having. I'd rahter it be out there and everyone have it so we can move on.

The other thing I realized yesterday is the new collectors who have no clue about great stuff that is out that was never even hoarded. All they focus is on is the few things they can not have. yeah...i mean, just ebcause somethings rare doesn't neccessarily mean that it is great as well. i'm sure once avalon will leak the first thing people will do is bitch about how shitty it sounds or so. there are so many great recordings around form all eras. so many that most of the people around only have a fraction anyways and still everyone focuses on the stuff they can't get

as for avalon specifically. i would be very grateful if someone would leak it. i mean i don't think it is watermarked or something and with stuff like bittorrent around one could easily leak it totally anonymously over stg or something. but the fact remains, once i have it, i would probably listen to it one or 2 times and then put it in my folder with my other shows and probably wouldn't take it out again for quite a while, especially because there is new stuff to get every day, be it pumpkins or something else.

Oh I almost forgot...I did get a hold of the guy who has the only Hexen video and at first he was pretty cool and sounded like he would give me a copy if I transferred it to DVD for him, but then when I called him back to set it up, he said he wasn't interested anymore. He did give me some details on it in that it was about 30 minutes long and consisted of 6 songs...all instrumental. As he put it "we all just played in the background while Billy soloed for five minutes and then when he put his hand up, we all ended." I believe he still has it on VHS (what's the life of those things? 20 years?) but I haven't called him in a while. He lives here in the Chicagoland area.

And thanks for posting Andrew, that 1/29/92 show is pure gold.

-GK

Originally posted by Rider

The other thing I realized yesterday is the new collectors who have no clue about great stuff that is out that was never even hoarded. All they focus is on is the few things they can not have.

So, I'm taking care of my wife as she's recooperating from surgery. And i've been subjected to Sex & The City Season 5. Basically the point of this hamhanded reply is that this 'focussing no what we cannot have' happens pretty much everywhere; cars, men, women, concerts, post count, etc. Perhaps it's best there isn't a Netphoria & The City show somewhere out there, odds are i'd be the pessimistic cynical redhead.

i myself have never put much thought into seaking out the avalon show. I know it would be a great thing to have, and not because its "the rare show" but just because that particular show supposedly had a few songs that were not played anywhere else. That is the main reason why i want it, to hear armed to the teeth, holiday and the other songs on that show. Unless i'm wrong, i believe that the avalon show was the only show these certain songs were played on.

What i'd really like to see is a recording surface for the 6-29 or 6-30 1996 shows.

guys guys guys...settle down. you need to realise that the people who have avalon now are really the only ones who trully deserve it.

The only "rare" thing that i know of, it´s the fact that the 1998/05/19 was professionaly videotaped by a portuguese tv channel for a future broadcast but was never broadcasted. I´ve tried and i´m still, acasionaly, trying to find anyone who works there and no luck.

As I posted in the message that Greg brought over from another post, I have located many amazing videos. But, this 1989 video is the one that seems to be the least talked about. Greg knows my desire to find this, but to be honest, in all my searching for stuff, I only found 3 people who admit to having this. Not that I am any amazing searcher of SP things, but this is the one thing that the fewest people seem to have. I don't know how many people have Avalon, but I have heard the number is quite high.

But with this video, only 3 have acknowledged having it that I know of. I have heard of two other people who are supposed to have it, but they have never emailed me back or admitted it, which is fine.

I would love to find out more about this. We have seen a general tracking for this video, but I would love to know where is came from. You have to figure that whoever put it together (I don't know if it was Billy or someone else) had a variety of shows on video at their disposal, pre 1990.

Is there anyone with information about this? Is there anyone out there who has this who will at least give us an exact tracklisting for it?

Also, about 4 years ago or so the 10/31/89 audio version came out, and from what I hear, it was sourced from the video. Now, that may be totally inaccurate, but if it did come from a video, that means somebody has the entire show on video in great quality. Does anyone know who was responsible for releasing that great show.

People talk about Avalon, and 8/25/90, and other stuff, but I don't hear people talk about 1/29/92, 10/20/95, 6/22/91 Metro, the Laughing Iguana show that is supposed to be on video, 7/23/91 (someone has owed me this for 2 years but has stopped responding to me), 11/1/91, complete 10/19/93, 9/2/93, 9/3/93 (Zundfunk), 11/10/93, 12/3/93, and more.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Brian Muehlhaus

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus


Also, about 4 years ago or so the 10/31/89 audio version came out, and from what I hear, it was sourced from the video. Now, that may be totally inaccurate, but if it did come from a video, that means somebody has the entire show on video in great quality. Does anyone know who was responsible for releasing that great show.

People about Avalon, and 8/25/90, and other stuff, but I don't hear people talk about 1/29/92, 10/20/95, 6/22/91 Metro, the Laughing Iguana show that is supposed to be on video, 7/23/91 (someone has owed me this for 2 years but has stopped responding to me), 11/1/91, complete 10/19/93, 9/2/93, 9/3/93 (Zundfunk), 11/10/93, 12/3/93, and more.



i recall jeroen being the one who announced the release of the audio from the 10.31.89 video. so that will probably never circulate.

10.19.93 - i know of a trader who has this complete show on a low gen cassete. but he doesnt want to transfer it(yet?). i've been trying to keep in touch.

9.2.93 &
9.3.93(zundfunk) - we both know of a trader with these videos. it's just a matter of time before either one of us scores another deal with him. the last time i had a trade, he couldnt do vid>cdr transfers though, which is why these arent out yet.

werent you going to get an incomplete 11.10.93 as filler in a trade?

people probably dont talk about 10.20.95 very often because the sound quality is horrible.
nor do they discuss the full 6.22.91 metro show since many people dont even know it exists.

the main reason people discuss avalon and/or the 90' show you mentioned are because they're actually avaliable, and just about everyone knows of someone who has it, and they see how pointless it is for it to still be hoarded.
whereas most of the others you mentioned would take plenty more work & luck to dig up.

Originally posted by Verboten
9.2.93 &
9.3.93(zundfunk) - we both know of a trader with these videos. it's just a matter of time before either one of us scores another deal with him. the last time i had a trade, he couldnt do vid>cdr transfers though, which is why these arent out yet.
check out this copied from the videolist i posted earlier (one which access may be given to a few, including myself):

Smashing Pumpkins 1993-02-09 Fraufurt, Germany 90 9+ 1st gen, pro-shot, great!!!

now, obviously this is mislabelled and is really 9.2.93... and it says proshot. spfc lists a 90 minute aud>vid. maybe we struck gold? :)

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
But with this video, only 3 have acknowledged having it that I know of. I have heard of two other people who are supposed to have it, but they have never emailed me back or admitted it, which is fine.

I would love to find out more about this. We have seen a general tracking for this video, but I would love to know where is came from. You have to figure that whoever put it together (I don't know if it was Billy or someone else) had a variety of shows on video at their disposal, pre 1990.
The exact tracklisting or at least most of it was discussed here about a year ago. I recall Jeroen revealing some info, and a basic list of the 25 songs was put together. Maybe someone can search the archives and find it. Hmm I don't think they go back that far.

I know of 3 people who have the vid also.

I will try tonight to resurface it. I am sure I saved it somehwere.

By the way, Verbotem, who are you. You posts reads as if I know you or communicate with you, but I am not sure who you are.

Brian

I've posted this before, but this is from that video:

<img src="http://forums.netphoria.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=922748">

Originally posted by Dead
I've posted this before, but this is from that video:

<img src="http://forums.netphoria.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=922748">

just from that picture, i know one person who has it :)

Originally posted by chsllama


So, I'm taking care of my wife as she's recooperating from surgery. And i've been subjected to Sex & The City Season 5. Basically the point of this hamhanded reply is that this 'focussing no what we cannot have' happens pretty much everywhere; cars, men, women, concerts, post count, etc. Perhaps it's best there isn't a Netphoria & The City show somewhere out there, odds are i'd be the pessimistic cynical redhead.

You sound bitter...... did you run out of juice pops?

Originally posted by chsllama

Perhaps it's best there isn't a Netphoria & The City show somewhere out there, odds are i'd be the pessimistic cynical redhead.

No, you would still be the asshole that still sells bootlegs on ebay. It's because of people like you that I hope that protected recordings never leak.

hey.

Anyone want to set up at trade for that Avalon gig? I can offer this supar-leet gem in return -

The Darkness 2004/01/16 - Ericcson Stadium, Auckland, NZ.

Dynamic Audio Cardioid>Batt Box (no rolloff)> Sharp MT-770

<font color=black>Yeah,I'm a funny guy</font>

That picture from Billy is from the Pulse Cable Access show. Now, that image could be from the 1989 25 Songs O'Pumpkins, or it could be from Viewphoria or Full Circle since both of those have that exact image from the Pulse Cable Access show.

Now, the following information was reported as being on the 1989 video.

"The video is a solid 2 hrs of music. so the to answer your question: it's 10/31/89 and prolly another 15 songs on top of that. starting with I'm Free ("who" cover) and than going into some other songs i cant even remember. Off the top of my head I would say the video sources songs from six different concerts and *******s one Pulse Cable song and the My Dahlia garage/basement rehersal. It has a clip of Billy and Bob at Geraldo and 2 Geraldo interviews with 2 serial killers (the title?) and some goodies at the end. Songs I remember off the top of my head: Sun, Spiteface, I'm Free, Venus in Furs, Jen Ever, I am One, Rhino, There it Goes, she, I think the Chrystal Ship and blah blah blah. Maybe one of these days if I get bored enough i will check it out.
One key thing I do recal, which I bet a lotta ppl who have seen the video have never noticed, is at one point they break into Oui Henri but the tape cuts and goes to a different song. I thought that was cool."

That is all I really know. I wish we could get an exact tracklisting. If anyone has it, and is willing to post, I would love to just see what is on the video.

By the way, what about the Viper Room proshot video. That exists.

Brian

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
the My Dahlia garage/basement rehersal.

Is this the track where James (?) says something at the beginning like "get Ron (or Bob?) down here" on that rarities comp. Mead made? I think someone on this board or another stated that maybe this meant Ron Roesing played on this track. Perhaps someone with the video could shed some light on this (or at lease tell me if I'm thinking of something completely different).

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
I will try tonight to resurface it. I am sure I saved it somehwere.

By the way, Verbotem, who are you. You posts reads as if I know you or communicate with you, but I am not sure who you are.

Brian

heh. heres a clue. i lent you the 9.14.96 & 10.25.96 videos, and the 1st gen 1.21.97 cassetes, which actually came back in the mail from dan today :)
thanx dan! wherever you are.

so yeah brian, we should get around to whatever replacements need to be settled in our last trade sometime, and maybe set something else up whenever you get the time.

Originally posted by zerozwan

check out this copied from the videolist i posted earlier (one which access may be given to a few, including myself):

Smashing Pumpkins 1993-02-09 Fraufurt, Germany 90 9+ 1st gen, pro-shot, great!!!

now, obviously this is mislabelled and is really 9.2.93... and it says proshot. spfc lists a 90 minute aud>vid. maybe we struck gold? :)


cool. this was also listed though:

Smashing Pumpkins 1993-09-02 Frankfurt, Germany 90 9 2nd. gen. 3 camera angle, great!

so are there 2 different recordings of the same show? or did the date get mixed up on one of these that are listed? hmm...

Originally posted by bowmaan


No, you would still be the asshole that still sells bootlegs on ebay. It's because of people like you that I hope that protected recordings never leak.

well now, since you hub babies are bashing on people who sell bootlegs, perhaps you dont know that a good friend a fares(brian krell), used to sell SP recordings on ebay all the time. i doubt any of you suck up's here would hold such a grudge against him though.

Below is a tracklisting I made a few years ago of the 25 song Pumpkin video (I'm surprised I found it on my computer). This may be the one that was posted...I don't remember. Anyway, I found it...now I'm posting it. It's pretty detailed for a tracklisting.

---

1988 - 1990 The Smashing Pumpkins Comp. Video

01. I'm Free (Live 1989 at unknown Metro show #1) <-- many lines on screen due to poor quality
02. She (Live 1988 at an unknown club) <-- fewer lines on screen
*Geraldo interviewing Charles Manson*
03. The Crystal Ship [The Doors] (Live 1989 at unknown Metro show #2)
04. Sun (Live 1989 at unknown Metro show #2) <-- check out the dancers in the front row
05. Spiteface (Live 1989 at unknown Metro show #2) <-- few lines on screen
06. Venus in Furs [Velvet Underground] (Live 1989 at unknown Metro show #3) <-- cool top hat!
*Billy and Bob English in the crowd of Geraldo* <-- Look close!
07. My Dahlia (1989 rehearsal possibly in the parking garage/basement?)
08. My Eternity (11/19/88 on The Pulse!)
09. Rhinoceros (Live 1990 at an unknown club)
10. East (Live 1990 at an unknown club)
11. I Am One (Live 1990 at an unknown club) <-- funny ending
12. I Am My End (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
13. Rhinoceros (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
14. Ball and Chain (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
15. Bury Me (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
16. Try To Try (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
17. Jennifer Ever (1988 unknown soundcheck)
18. There It Goes (1988 unknown soundcheck)
19. Oui Henri (Live 1988 at an unknown club) <-- cut after 20 seconds
20. Nothing and Everything (Live 1988 at an unknown club)
21. Salt (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
22. Lie I Lie (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
23. Razor (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
24. Love (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
25. C'mon (Live 10/31/89 at Metro)
26. The Marked (Billy's first band) - Scary Neurotic Song (Promo video) <-- BEST VIDEO EVER!!!
27. The Marked (Billy's first band) - The Trance (Promo video) <-- poor audio
*Geraldo interviewing serial killer "Joe"*

I don't get why you people don't share all these rare shows and videos. :confused:

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
That picture from Billy is from the Pulse Cable Access show. Now, that image could be from the 1989 25 Songs O'Pumpkins, or it could be from Viewphoria or Full Circle since both of those have that exact image from the Pulse Cable Access show.
Yeah it could be from Vieuphoria or Full Circle, but it is from 25 Songs O Pumpkins.

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
By the way, what about the Viper Room proshot video. That exists.

tru dat. is there any way to find out what production company filmed that show?

Todd,

Thanks for that exact tracklisting. That is what I have been looking for, and hoping Greg's post might produce.

I do have one question that maybe you can answer. Are the last two songs (Marked) part of this video, or could they have been added by someone a filler at a latter time.

If it is called "25 Songs O'Pumpkins" then wouldn't that mean originally there were only 25 songs on it. Now, I know there are 25 Sp songs, and the 2 others are non-SP, but just wondering. I have no idea.

Again Todd, thanks a lot for that tracklisting. There is some amazing stuff on there, and what is even better is the stuff is on video. I mean, now much video footage is out there of SP pre-1990.

I remember the post a few years ago about the Laughing Iguana show on video and I remember reading that Dave A. said he found a guy that has 5-6 SP complete shows on video from 89-90.

Brian

Originally posted by Verboten
cool. this was also listed though:

Smashing Pumpkins 1993-09-02 Frankfurt, Germany 90 9 2nd. gen. 3 camera angle, great!

so are there 2 different recordings of the same show? or did the date get mixed up on one of these that are listed? hmm...
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-02-09 Fraufurt, Germany 90 9+ 1st gen, pro-shot, great!!!

i'm going to assume that this is <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=215">this</a> show...

Smashing Pumpkins 1993-09-02 Frankfurt, Germany 90 9 2nd. gen. 3 camera angle, great!

and that this is <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=173">this</a> show.

(just using my better judgement)

Originally posted by Todd White
Below is a tracklisting I made a few years ago of the 25 song Pumpkin video (I'm surprised I found it on my computer). This may be the one that was posted...I don't remember. Anyway, I found it...now I'm posting it. It's pretty detailed for a tracklisting.

<snip tracklisting>

Todd, thanks for keeping the post going, it is great to see the tracklisting come out in detail. Care to share any of your other stories/stuff?

-GK

Originally posted by zerozwan

Smashing Pumpkins 1993-02-09 Fraufurt, Germany 90 9+ 1st gen, pro-shot, great!!!

i'm going to assume that this is <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=215">this</a> show...

Smashing Pumpkins 1993-09-02 Frankfurt, Germany 90 9 2nd. gen. 3 camera angle, great!

and that this is <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=173">this</a> show.

(just using my better judgement)

Apparently this guy, Kevin, came up with a list of his 2000 or so videos in a day or 2, so I'm sure he fucked up on dates here and there :)

Originally posted by zerozwan

Smashing Pumpkins 1993-02-09 Fraufurt, Germany 90 9+ 1st gen, pro-shot, great!!!

i'm going to assume that this is <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=215">this</a> show...

Smashing Pumpkins 1993-09-02 Frankfurt, Germany 90 9 2nd. gen. 3 camera angle, great!

and that this is <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=173">this</a> show.

(just using my better judgement)


yeah, i already have that 9.4.92 video, good stuff.
but an uncommon 1st gen 93' show...very nice. at least thats one more that can be scratched off the list.

As this thread continues, hopefully we can keep stories, leads, or finds going. But I have noticed that some of the old schoolers haven't posted. Now, I don't know if they are reading the posts or not, but I would say responses in the past from people have deterred them from responding. In the past week, I think I have posted about 10 of my 50 posts I have made, which means I read more than I write. But, I have seem people in the trading community attack some of the big time people who have worked hard to find the stuff they have because they keep it for themselves. I will be the first to admit that I am envious of some of the big time people mentioned by Greg much earlier in this post. But, I am envious because they have been so much more successful in finding things that I would love to have. I have done a fraction of the searching they have, and haven't come up with anything worthwhile. So if I want to get anything, I have to search harder.

But, to anyone reading this waiting for people like Dave A, Fares H., Jason R, Dave F. Eric A, Karl D, Josh P., Vince H, Jesse M, Steve H, Andrew F, and some of the others:

I don't think they will post.

As much as I would love to read what they have and what they have discovered, and their stories, I understand why they probably won't post. They have been ripped before and will be ripped again by some of you. That is unfortunate, but that is the way it is.

But, hopefully we can still get people to type up what they have looked for, what they know about, or maybe what they have.

It was great of Todd W to post the tracklisting of the 1989 video.
This was the first complete tracklisting I have ever seen of this video.

I would love to find out info about the Billy home demos. Or about the Let Me Give The World To You Adore studio version. Or if there is a studio version of She, etc.

There is so much out there that most of us don't know about, and that is unfortunate because a lot of it will be lost with the history of the band.

So in the future, let's focus on what is out there, and not on attacking people who have stuff that won't spread it. Remember, many of the people who have things we all want also are responsible for most of what we do have.

Sometimes I feel people talk about things they don't have and want it to just check it off a list. They might listen to it once, then put it in a pile and forget about it. I still listen to RTS, 10/5/88, MP, the bonus tracks from MCIS demos, and everything else.
I still am crushed everytime Billy abandons She in RTS because that is my favorite pre-Gish song.

Anyway, I am rambling. But, thanks to everyone who has contributed something to the community. For those who have things and won't spread them, fine. I have no problem with that. I like to think that if I work hard enough, I will one day find something like others before me have.

Brian

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
I still listen to RTS, 10/5/88, MP, the bonus tracks from MCIS demos, and everything else.
I still am crushed everytime Billy abandons She in RTS because that is my favorite pre-Gish song.


That's how I feel when, in the 666 video/bootleg, Billy says "should we play Speed or Porcelina?". Every time I watch, Flood ruins things by saying "Porcelina" and leaves me still waiting for a studio (or soundboard from DD) recording of Speed with vox.

But going along with the rest of what Brian said, a lot more stuff will get circulated if people work together and do things civilly. It's counterproductive when something cool gets posted on Ebay or someone discovers Ron Roesing's (or someone else who worked with the band) email address and everyone on here (which are the only people actually interested in this esoteric Pumpkins stuff) all bid against each other or fire off 50 emails trying to grab rare items for themselves so they can brag about having something that Dave Asselin doesn't.

Near the end of the line for the Pumpkins, I remember word spreading around that Billy was willing to leak neat things to us if we had organized distribution channels set up. Thanks to the efforts of Eric Agnew and some others who set up trees, we got the Friends and Enemies tape, Billys Gravity Demos, etc.

We're all after the same thing, and unlike during the Pumpkins' popular years there is a small enough group of us and the technology where we can distribute things efficiently on the Hub or through torrents.

Getting things into the community at large so that they're not owned by one person who disappears offline is important, and if that means sharing something "rare" with Brian so he can trade for something like Adore rehearsals (just an example, I know this isn't really an option) then that's what we should be doing. Work with each other, not against each other, it's not a contest to see who is the most "l33t". We are a small group of people with a common interest, and it's about time to start acting like one.

Chris Hill

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus

I still am crushed everytime Billy abandons She in RTS because that is my favorite pre-Gish song.
Me too, I always think maybe this time he'll finish it, but he never does. :(

There is so much out there that most of us don't know about, and that is unfortunate because a lot of it will be lost with the history of the band.

We're all after the same thing, and unlike during the Pumpkins' popular years there is a small enough group of us and the technology where we can distribute things efficiently on the Hub or through torrents.

my thoughts exactly.

on a somewhat similar note, the folks remaining in the pumpkins community are - for the most part - the die-hards. there aren't very many 'casual' fans left. i'm really hopeful that some folks out there will eventually re-examine their reasons for hoarding. tapes get eaten. houses burn down. collectors die and have all of their shit thrown in a dumpster. to have a rare or one-of-a-kind recording lost to history for no good reason would really be a shame. i'm not talking about stuff as 'common' as avalon. i'm talking about unreleased masters and things like that. those things have historical significance, and i hate to think about stuff like that eventually winding up in a dumpster 30 years from now and never being allowed it's place in history simply because some dead hoarder's family thought they were 'just a bunch of old tapes' or something like that. even a crappy-sounding recording has significance, and that significance will only grow as time goes on.

just my 2 cents.

on another similar note, i'm looking forward to the next 'mashed potatoes'-type of event. i know that it's release made a few people instantly 'less leet', but i still think it was the best thing to happen to the community in a long time. along with nec and fbs and so on and so forth.

it really is a pretty cool time to be a pumpkins fan.
:)

It's so great you guys keep going like this.

I'm just a casual trader, but to know guys like you are still working hard on getting new shows is really encouraging.

I really should get back working on trying to find that tsp gig here in NZ.....

Some songs no one (to my knowledge) knows about:

Satellites
Without You
Joy
Cross (not the one on the SPFC)
Jersey Shore
Valentine



Satellites
---------------
Me and her
We get around
Never see much
Staring hard
Into the ground
Electricity for love

You know it's the end of all
You know this is the end
It's what you've been waiting for
Like a long lost friend
Attached by satellites
Attached by satellites
Attached by satellites
It's a long way down

You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven

Me and her
Get around
We always rock the bus
Each a tube inside the ground
Electricity for love

You know this is the end
You know it's the end
It's what you've been waiting for
Like a long lost friend
Attached by satellites
Attached by satellites
Attached by satellites
Satellites
It's a long way down

You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven


Without You
------------------
We're tamed to be
The bumble bee
We're tamed to please
Our deep blue seas
The gin wheeze of everything

Without you
Within you
Beside you
Fell into
A bad dream
Without you
Without you

Let's aim to see
The deep blue sky
Let's aim to squeeze
The last drops out of life

Without you
Within you
Beside you
Fell into
The worst dream
Without you
Without you


Joy
-----------
I feel joy
I feel just
Like a boy
And now I
PLay with my toys

Nothing's really changed
I don't feel sad
you know I
Don't feel mad for my age
I'm happy just being

Someone just like me
In a way you will be
Any way in the world throws me down now
Now, world throws me right on down
and the world spills me right on down
world drains me right on down and

I feel joy
I feel just
Like a boy
And now I
Play with my noise
Nothing's really changed

I feel joy
I feel such
Happy joy
As a child I
Owned the noise
Nothing's smashing down

Happy just to be alive
Happy just to survive
Blows the tragedy down
World blows me right on down
World drains me right on down
World spills me right on down
And
Right on down and


Cross (yet another Cross...heh)
---------------------------------

Climb a cross
A sea-filled cross
Climb above
The still water

Desperate to
Seek to way
Earn your chance
With golden harvest

Find my hand pressing in
Meant no feeling in
Just the distance calling
It's distance calling
It's distance calling

There is no wanting
There's no way across
There is no wanting and can't go on
In a world you'd understand
This is your moment
In a world of being
Shoulda been dead, left for dead
This distance calling
This distance calling
This distance calling

(cuts off early)


Jersey Shore
----------------

On the Jersey shore
Spend all our dimes
I was getting change
Back of my mind

Shooting blanks
In Jerseytown
We tunnelled in
Manhattan-bound

What can we do?
There's life here for me
With a sweet young thing
And a cool, cool breeze

To the smokestack chime
We carry forth
Cinder child
And nights we forced

They are saints hovering
The last soul is carried
Let him go on a riverbed
God rest your soul
God rest this town

What shall we do?
There's life yet for me
With a sweet young thing
And a cool, cool breeze
Say a prayer for me

In the pinball din
Done with glow
Dream the Jersey shore
We kiss in here

I'm the Jersey shore
It's where I died
Hat in hand
My eyes to the sky


Valentine
---------------

Let the horses run
You're deserting me
Catch the thread-bare strains
Of departing trains
Bound for the last goodbyes
Yet thought you'd think you'd know

You're sure you did your care
She was always there
For you to kick around
But now she's let you down
Now she's gone to stay
With the frost and pray
If God could hear her prayers
Would he care?

Valentine, heart of mine
Come and ease my worried mind
It's plain to see
I'm not so free
Valentine, heart of mine

And from a window
You spy her ghost
Laughing ground
And taking notes

It seemed to so easy
To put it down
And leave the wreckage
For someone else

Valentine, heart of mine
Take this blood
This broken vine
It's plain to see
I ain't so free
Valentine, heart of mine

You smell of hair
Everywhere you go
You see her lips
Where you're leaving notes

Oh, Valentine
She's never 'round
Leaves you cold to
Have and hold

Valentine, heart of mine
Come and ease my worried mind
It's plain to see
I'm not so free
Valentine, heart of mine.

Here are a few interesting things I've found :

I've been trying to find new recordings or alternate sources for shows in Belgium. I started taping shows 2 years ago which helped me to meet other Belgian tapers. I found a Belgian taper who had taped a few SP gigs. He also had on his bootlist this (he saw the gig but did not tape it) :

01/17/92 Vooruit Gent 85' with the following comment "one of best gigs i saw"

Although it was really hard to set up a trade with him since he's not trading anymore, I finally got a copy of that show from him. I compared it with what people lists on their bootlist as 01.17.92__BxL; Brussels, BE...unfortunately it's the same show but if anyone cares, I know that 01.17.92 was not the Brussels show but the show in Gent. _That guy has kept the ticket of the show and he confirmed that to me. He told me he would send me a scan of it but haven't got it yet.

Now this new copy of 01.17.92 is not better than the one that was transferred by Fares but according to the trader it's most likely ANA-1>CDR.

Another thing more interesting is that the guy taped
07/06/97 Werchter Festival
I'm sure this one is not the crappy recording with the left channel dead. It's an alternate source that I hope to get soon.

I also got an amateur VID of 04.06.96 Flanders Expo; Gent, BE. A Belgian fan I know bought this in a shop and lent it to me. I transferred the audio to CDR. I must say it sounds much better than the MD+built in mic recording available.

Last thing, I taped a FM broadcast of Zwan 05.29.03 + interview .
I traded it twice but apart from that I think it's not that common if anyone cares about Zwan.

Thanks to everybody that contributes to this thread. It's great to see that there are still lots of new recordings that are found.

Originally posted by Brewer
Last thing, I taped a FM broadcast of Zwan 05.29.00 + interview .
I.

Are you sure the date is correct??

05.29.2000

Originally posted by Schack


Are you sure the date is correct??

05.29.2000
sorry typing mistake it's 2003 of course

Originally posted by PAu-1-699-154
Some songs no one (to my knowledge) knows about:

Satellites
Without You
Joy
Cross (not the one on the SPFC)
Jersey Shore
Valentine



I believe that these were from sometime between the Adore sessions and Machina Acoustic Demos. Possibly Adore B-sides that went unused. Cross may be similar to the instrumental from the FAEOMM tape...maybe.

PAu:

Did you hear these songs at the Library of Congress? (See thread about listening to Quiet and Other Songs) If so, which tape(s) are they on? Also, I (and probably everyone else) would love to hear more about the whole experience of going there and listening to QaOS. How were you able to take such good notes? What about the rumor that someone else posted that the tapes were actually missing? Thanks for posting, that's cool info.

Chris Hill

Originally posted by PAu-1-699-154
Some songs no one (to my knowledge) knows about:

Satellites
Without You
Joy
Cross (not the one on the SPFC)
Jersey Shore
Valentine


This is what I am talking about!! Where did you find these? Do you have them? More info! Nice job and keep it going!

-GK

P.S. Awesome stuff.

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
I still listen to RTS, 10/5/88, MP, the bonus tracks from MCIS demos, and everything else.What are the bonus tracks from MCIS demos? (And where would they be available?)

12 -Time Has Come Today (apparently 1988-11-20)
13 -Jennifer Ever (Acoustic)
14 -Nothing And Everything (live 1988)

Originally posted by Altezano
12 -Time Has Come Today (apparently 1988-11-20)
13 -Jennifer Ever (Acoustic)
14 -Nothing And Everything (live 1988) Oh, I thought maybe he meant Feelium and God (Demo). As in: not the ones on Demos For D'arcy but even other ones.

Here's a low quality mp3 of that Feelium: Feelium.mp3 (http://studwww.ugent.be/~bgheyle/Feelium.mp3)

Anyone knows what it is or where it's from? Or even where I could find it in decent quality?

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
Oh, I thought maybe he meant Feelium and God (Demo). As in: not the ones on Demos For D'arcy but even other ones.

Here's a low quality mp3 of that Feelium:

That's not Feelium. As far as I know, some random person recorded that on their own and then put out the mislabeled mp3. The version of Feelium thats circulating is merely the full version of the clip found in the Pastichio Medley.

Originally posted by Corganist
That's not Feelium. As far as I know, some random person recorded that on their own and then put out the mislabeled mp3. The version of Feelium thats circulating is merely the full version of the clip found in the Pastichio Medley. What makes you sure it's a fake?

I've also seen the same mp3 labeled as Saturnine Demo, btw.

And it came with a track called God Demo, not the one on Demos For D'arcy, but an instrumental that is very close to God on the Zero single.

Feelium and God WERE on the Demos for D'arcy tape. Also referred to as MCIS Demos III.

Originally posted by Dead
Feelium and God WERE on the Demos for D'arcy tape. Also referred to as MCIS Demos III.

See, this has always confused me. Why does everyone call MCIS Demos III "Demos for D'arcy"??? MCIS Demos II (the one with the instrumental, full band, MCIS songs, Methusela, etc) was the one that is sourced from D'arcy's practice tape. (At least according to spfc (http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=45)) MCIS Demos III is merely the upgraded version of MCIS Demos I. (Billy's Home Demos). I think the naming is throwing things off here.

As for the whole Feelium/God thing. There is one real version of Feelium as far as I know, and thats then one on MCIS Demos III. The Feelium mp3 posted on this thread sounds nothing at all like that version, and I have seen nothing to suggest it has anything to do with SP other than the way the file is named. As for God, there are two instrumental demos out there: the version on MCIS II sounds pretty close to the final version (sans vocals), and the one on MCIS III, which has a little less of an edge to it.

Anyway, if I'm wrong on any of this, feel free to correct me. It just seems to me that with all the cool new info we're getting nowadays, we can at least try to keep the old stuff straight.

Originally posted by Corganist


See, this has always confused me. Why does everyone call MCIS Demos III "Demos for D'arcy"??? MCIS Demos II (the one with the instrumental, full band, MCIS songs, Methusela, etc) was the one that is sourced from D'arcy's practice tape. (At least according to spfc (http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=45)) MCIS Demos III is merely the upgraded version of MCIS Demos I. (Billy's Home Demos). I think the naming is throwing things off here.

As for the whole Feelium/God thing. There is one real version of Feelium as far as I know, and thats then one on MCIS Demos III. The Feelium mp3 posted on this thread sounds nothing at all like that version, and I have seen nothing to suggest it has anything to do with SP other than the way the file is named. As for God, there are two instrumental demos out there: the version on MCIS II sounds pretty close to the final version (sans vocals), and the one on MCIS III, which has a little less of an edge to it.

Anyway, if I'm wrong on any of this, feel free to correct me. It just seems to me that with all the cool new info we're getting nowadays, we can at least try to keep the old stuff straight.

Good point.

Perhaps we should list all varitions of 'studio' demo tapes.

Billy's Gravity Demos - Double CD
Friends And Enemies Of Modern Music - 60 minute tape
Mashed Potatoes (Simon Coyle Tape)
Mashed Potatoes 5xCD
Mellon Collie Demos II
Machina Acoustic Demos
Billy's Home Demos
Billy's Home Demos - Reel Time tree + bonus
Adore Demos
Machina II/Friends And Enemies Of Modern Music Double CD
Reel Time Sessions - Acoustic and Electric

anything else?

I've seen the light.
You're right, Corganist.

Too bad that other Feelium is probably a fake. Anyway, I still like it. :)

On the other hand: the spfc mentions there might be two recordings of Feelium.
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=22 (I guess this is the one on MCIS Demos III.)
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=24

Well, that proves nothing. But still.

MCIS Demos III is from a totally separate tape that has written on on it "Demos For D'arcy" and has half of the tracks from MCIS Demos I on it, plus Feelium and God. This God appears to be unrelated to the song on the Zero single. I heard that side B of MCIS Demos III was taped over with The Cardigans or else we would have all the songs on MCIS Demos I in better quality instead of half, plus maybe some more bonuses.

Originally posted by Dead
MCIS Demos III is from a totally separate tape that has written on on it "Demos For D'arcy" and has half of the tracks from MCIS Demos I on it, plus Feelium and God. This God appears to be unrelated to the song on the Zero single. I heard that side B of MCIS Demos III was taped over with The Cardigans or else we would have all the songs on MCIS Demos I in better quality instead of half, plus maybe some more bonuses.

Upon looking back at some old AMSP posts, turns out you're correct. MCIS III is "Demos for D'arcy". But I still think its a lot easier to call them 'MCIS Demos III' just to keep things straight. The fact that both MCIS II and III are linked to D'arcy just makes it easy to confuse them.

Yeah, I agree with that, but it is actually written on the tape so that's kinda the name of the tape.

I have the "En Concierto en Mexico" promo and a sounboard New Order show (with Billy). Other than that, all my good shit has been leaked (Previeu, 2-5-92 promo, wzrd, 9-12-93 bbc, ww1 acoustic tracks). The promo and sbd New Order have been traded, but I don't see them on lists or shared on the hub.

So, if any of the leet would like to set up a trade, I have some soundboard Tool shows...

-Mike

Originally posted by zoe1271
I have the "En Concierto en Mexico" promoWow, that's cool!

I do have mp3's of that promo. I guess I got them from the sspaa back in the days. Can't remember. But indeed, I also never saw it listed on bootlists or on the hub.

ok my friend has one of the original en concierto promos. i'll see about getting a quality rip of it in shn if it's really not out there. deaddy? whats the word on those tracks?

er sorry i meant flac (hopes dead won't shout at me now...)

I spread the promo CD of Mexico on the hub sometimes ago. don't know if it's still there...

ok. thanks for letting me know. as long as it's out there somewhere

Heard that Joe Shanahan has a six foot 3-D Gish Platinum Award of the cover art in his office…don’t know if this is true…


ok. i got the info. in joe's office at the metro there is indeed a big gish award. quite possibly not platinum. it has the gish cover art but non distorted. that's overlayed by a large fish eye lens so looking through you have the same view as the album cover.

sounds fantatsic!

Originally posted by Richard D. James

-Found the DJ to the 3.16.89 WZRD show, but really never pursued that one. For as much as everyone didn’t like him, he was pretty popular in Chicago.
I searched the internet for this guy but didn't find anything. He's awesome on the tape. By all means, by all means. :D

Originally posted by Dead

I searched the internet for this guy but didn't find anything. He's awesome on the tape. By all means, by all means. :D

Velvet Underground...right...right....name is Joe Garza...in searching for early shows his name was featured a bunch...

-GK

Call us up, by all means. What you need to do is send us a tape.

It sounds really great in here.

Originally posted by Brandont_h
It sounds really great in here.

Come you jack-ass, contribute!

:p

Originally posted by Brandont_h
It sounds really great in here.
<img width="100" height="100" src="http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/biggrin.gif">

I have a video cassette with the broadcast of Pinkpop 98 (June 1st) by the Dutch tv.

If I remember it correctly, it has BWBW (not complete), Shame, Tear, Ava Adore and Tonight, Tonight. And an interview. I also think Tonight, Tonight is cut because the cassette was full.

I have no idea if this is already in circulation. Or - if not - how to bring it into circulation. Anyway, it might be more interesting if someone had the complete Pumpkins part of the broadcast, without Tonight, Tonight being cut.

I didn`t find this on any bootlist yet.
The day after the 1998-05-23 London, Shepherd`s Bush Empire show there was a guy in Camden Town who sold the complete show on two audio tapes. It`s an AUD recording.
I still have the tapes here in my room right now.
I don`t know what generation the tapes are but as he sold the tapes one day after the show I think they should all be directly from the master.
I don`t know what he used to tape the show but the quality is bad as far as I remember.
Seems to be the MD recording listed on spfc.
Since my audio deck broke down a couple of years ago and CD-burner and Mini Disc came up, I didn`t find the time to transfer it yet.
I remember I traded this show with just two or three people back in 98.
If anyone has this recording on CD, please let me know so my tapes can go on collecting dust...


I know that Zwan are not as interesting as the Pumpkins to many people around here - including me - but I want to mention that there`s a complete recording of the 2003/02/17 Hamburg show done by german radio.
They never metioned anything of a broadcast up to now but I know someone who was a trainee at the radio station at that time.
She promised me to get the show from the archive and make a copy for me but it never happened.
It was this kind of friend-of-a-friend relationship but she was reliable as she had to work for the radio station backstage and they did interviews and stuff.

I remember talking to Tobin on the hub maybe a year ago when she was still working for the radio station.
In view of the perfect sounding recordings of this show that are already circulating, it`s not too bad that we`ll probably never get this radio recording...

And Brewer, I`m really interested in that Zwan 2003-05-29 FM recording cause i attended that show.
I was asking myself for months when the FM recording of this show would reach the hub cause I heard that there was a broadcast of that show. But it`s only a couple of songs if I remember correctly or is it the entire show?

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
I have a video cassette with the broadcast of Pinkpop 98 (June 1st) by the Dutch tv.

If I remember it correctly, it has BWBW (not complete), Shame, Tear, Ava Adore and Tonight, Tonight. And an interview. I also think Tonight, Tonight is cut because the cassette was full.

I have no idea if this is already in circulation. Or - if not - how to bring it into circulation. Anyway, it might be more interesting if someone had the complete Pumpkins part of the broadcast, without Tonight, Tonight being cut.

Tobin did a torrent including that show a few weeks ago

http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52366

Originally posted by memories_unwind
I didn`t find this on any bootlist yet.
The day after the 1998-05-23 London, Shepherd`s Bush Empire show there was a guy in Camden Town who sold the complete show on two audio tapes. It`s an AUD recording.
I still have the tapes here in my room right now.
I don`t know what generation the tapes are but as he sold the tapes one day after the show I think they should all be directly from the master.
I don`t know what he used to tape the show but the quality is bad as far as I remember.
Seems to be the MD recording listed on spfc.
Since my audio deck broke down a couple of years ago and CD-burner and Mini Disc came up, I didn`t find the time to transfer it yet.
I remember I traded this show with just two or three people back in 98.
If anyone has this recording on CD, please let me know so my tapes can go on collecting dust...


I know that Zwan are not as interesting as the Pumpkins to many people around here - including me - but I want to mention that there`s a complete recording of the 2003/02/17 Hamburg show done by german radio.
They never metioned anything of a broadcast up to now but I know someone who was a trainee at the radio station at that time.
She promised me to get the show from the archive and make a copy for me but it never happened.
It was this kind of friend-of-a-friend relationship but she was reliable as she had to work for the radio station backstage and they did interviews and stuff.

I remember talking to Tobin on the hub maybe a year ago when she was still working for the radio station.
In view of the perfect sounding recordings of this show that are already circulating, it`s not too bad that we`ll probably never get this radio recording...

And Brewer, I`m really interested in that Zwan 2003-05-29 FM recording cause i attended that show.
I was asking myself for months when the FM recording of this show would reach the hub cause I heard that there was a broadcast of that show. But it`s only a couple of songs if I remember correctly or is it the entire show?

Actually there was two broadcasts of it :

-first on Studio Brussels : only a few songs + interview

-second on Radio 21 : almost complete broadcast (missing 2 or 3 songs)

Send me an email at : brewer@ibelgique.com and will work something out

Originally posted by memories_unwind

Tobin did a torrent including that show a few weeks ago

http://www.sharingthegroove.org/msgboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52366 ok. nice.

one thing I have floating around people might or might not be interested in is a 2nd Gen aud video recording of the 2/23/00 show in Albany, NY. It's not a particualarly great video, and its incomplete (about 20 min), but it does show the band playing in a mall.

I don't really remember seeing it on bootlists when I was active in trading...

Now i'm not much of a trader, and not all that knowledgable when it comes to rare videos or anything, but i have an old video with a Caroline Records label on it. Typed on the label is "Smashing Pumpkins Interview + "siva"
It appears to have an Mtv interview introduced by Kurt Loder. It then cuts to a woman's voice speaking and then talk to all of the band members and some fans with parts of the siva video cut in. There is also some live footage from the Metro. I'm watching this for the first time in years now as i type. Ok then Kurt Loder wraps up the bit by plugging thier club tour in support of gish and now the siva video plays.
Like i said i don't propose this to be anything grand, but i thought i'd bring it up.

EDIT: image of tape http://www.woodenbulletrecords.com/sivatape.jpg

Originally posted by memories_unwind
I didn`t find this on any bootlist yet.
The day after the 1998-05-23 London, Shepherd`s Bush Empire show there was a guy in Camden Town who sold the complete show on two audio tapes. It`s an AUD recording.
I still have the tapes here in my room right now.
I don`t know what generation the tapes are but as he sold the tapes one day after the show I think they should all be directly from the master.
I don`t know what he used to tape the show but the quality is bad as far as I remember.
Seems to be the MD recording listed on spfc.
Since my audio deck broke down a couple of years ago and CD-burner and Mini Disc came up, I didn`t find the time to transfer it yet.
I remember I traded this show with just two or three people back in 98.
If anyone has this recording on CD, please let me know so my tapes can go on collecting dust...


I traded for a 2nd gen copy of this 5-6 years ago. Since then, I have lost all my SP cassettes. So it goes...

Cool thread.. lots of cool new info I've never heard of (seriously, email this shit to spfc! Sure, most of the data-entry grunts have quit, but I'm still updating shit, & Karl's still keeping up w/ articles...), and also lots of points which reminded me why I was never really into the hardcore trading scene.

I was always a passive trader. When something cool came up, I'd trade for it, or just get it in some cases. Chris Carman made me a couple tapes way back in the day, Laura Ann gave me a video w/ the '91 Milwaukee & Metro shows on it (more on that later), & I did a few odd trades & trees here & there, but nothing big. By the last tour, I was taping every show myself, so I didn't have much need for trading, & ended up getting the 2 tapes from BC (gravity/F&E - small PoI above- the gravity demos came on a 90m cassette the day before F&E, which he couldn't find or hadn't made yet or something.. we all laughed later on about how I got unreleased current-ish studio stuff on cassette, while Dave got Avalon on CD.. guess he had Bjorn burn it or something..).

Whenever I talked to the "hardcore" l337 traders back then (even Sherman-era), though, the hoarding issue always came up. "You gotta keep some stuff rare so that you can trade it for other rare stuff." So if trader A has rare item 1, and trader B has rare item 2, those two will trade for it. But if #1 becomes common, then B won't want to trade #2 for it anymore, or so the argument goes. And trader C, who has nothing that A or B consider rare and worthy of their trades, won't get shit. I never really bought it, as I figured that had to be an easier way than for everyone who wanted anything to get it one by one & go through all that hassle of tracking shit down & getting people to do R4R3 Tr4d3Z. But there was never really any way to get a big pool of a bunch of people, all with different rare items, to trade it all to each other. Too much work.

So, I've pretty much stayed out of the real trading circles. A couple people I knew personally got copies of everything I taped on the last tour, and I got stuff back from them. The few times I ventured into trades with other people always left me with a sour taste, so I didn't do it much.

So, is there a better way to do things now? Would trying to get a big group of people to each release something new even work, or would some of them back out after everyone else's stuff was up, getting everything else but "keeping their r4r3 stuff rare"?


Anyway.. enough trading/hoarding ranting. I noticed that Milwaukee vid mentioned. I haven't watched it in ages, but I have a 4+-yr-old text file w/ some notes, which reads:

1991/10/22 Atomic Records; Milwaukee, WI, US (handheld on platform in back):

blue | obscured (abandoned) | obscured (abandoned) | siva | smiley | suffer | terrapin [syd barrett] | luna

1991/10/22 Central Park Ballroom; Milwaukee, WI, US (tripod in back):

rocket | tristessa | window paine | bury me | siva (w/ intro jam) | snail | silverfuck / offer up (tease)

1991/12/31 Cabaret Metro; Chicago, IL, US (tripod on balcony):

(backstage banter) (NYE countdown) (backstage banter w/ BC 'poem')
rocket (alt. lyrics) | bury me | window paine | bye june (tease) | tristessa | snail | siva | suffer | i am one | crush | silverfuck

"This is a song about loving an animal. -Really- loving an animal... And not just the farm kind, either." -bc before Siva, 1991/12/31

The 12/31 vid wasn't mentioned on there, but is this different than the one people have? There's some backstage stuff, and then it goes out to the stage where the MC counts down the new year, then it's back backstage for a bit more.. The 'poem' is BC saying something like "A cat.. prowls.. to the anus of the world... (something something).. with (something) wishes, and new years kisses" etc. Or something like that. Been too long to remember exactly, but that was the gist.

So that's all on one vid, I think.. I know I gave Dave a copy, but I don't know if he's traded it at all since then. I might've even given him mine & kept a lower gen for myself, since I knew he was a bigger trader... Which reminds me- Damian from the Frogs kept on talking about these Unicorn videos he was gonna give me one day.. By the time he emailed me ready to trade, I was working or something & didn't have time, so I pointed him in Dave's direction. Never heard if anything came of it, but it'd be funny if that's what those are from.

What else.. the MCIS demo 2 tape info up on spfc was from conversations w/ bc. He asked for a copy, so I gave him one, & a couple shows later he said the whole bit about it being a tape for D'Arcy or Flood to listen to. Then I think he started playing Methusela for a bit (think that was the IN show, pre-show, dressing room), & then he asked if there was a song called "Sparrow" that'd been leaked anywhere, & played a couple bars, & when we said "no" he was like "Good, I'm saving that one for a future release" or something. Which is why there were like 2 lines of sparrow up on spfc shortly after. heh.

Hm.. I don't even have a proper bootlist, but the only other thing I can think of that might even be remotely rare is a "Video Collection" that I think was made by Atomic Records, came in a plastic VHS box w/ a sleeve copied from the Peel Session cover, & was basically a compilation of videos & TV stuff. The JBTV halloween show, etc. OK, so maybe nothing uncommon there...

Oh yeah- the Munich video. Courtnay taped that on their camcorder, think it was mini-VHS, or mayyybe Hi8.. But apparently the sound on the video sucked, so I gave her the DAT master to mix w/ the video. Dave Reid was supposed to do the transfer, only that never happened, and last I heard she'd given it (them?) to the band's new videotaper guy (I only knew Greg from the late TSP-early Zwan days- now it's all new staff, except for the lights guy who always wears the yellow/green soccer(?) shirts, whom I didn't really know). So unless DR made copies of the video/DAT while he had it, I don't think anyone has any of that stuff. Hell, I was in the group that taped it & I haven't even seen it yet! I didn't even make CDs of that show from the DAT, so I don't even have that.

Anyway, aside from that, I don't really have too much info on recordings.. Except that bc mentioned once that they'd found some guy who had a whole bunch of really early shows taped, or something, & they were going through them all & making digital copies for his archives. And of course the half-joking references of opening the vaults one day "when you're ready to quit your Silicon Valley future...", as if I'd be going through them all & distributing whatever was deemed worthy. Heh, right. Actually, he did ask, at least once that I can remember, about possible ways to cheaply distribute music online while retaining some control & possibly a nominal profit (or at least enough to cover costs), but there really wasn't any easy way to do it back then, so he lost interest. Maybe next time there's a show I can actually get to (and I remember) I'll remind him about that. :)

Hmm, that's all I can think of for now. I've got a small handful of untraded Frogs cassette masters, & maybe a DAT or two... somewhere.. Heh. Oh well... enough for now. Maybe I'll think of something else later.

Agnew - terribly interesting post.

To everyone - I'm going to try and compile the information that's being posted here. There's a ton of stuff suddenly, and there should be a way to keep track of it. I'll give it a shot tomorrow, doing a preliminary run.

(that is, provided no one else has said they will yet)

The only rare things I have are the Billy Corgan demo of Taproot (mp3) and the video of it. But I can't give that to anyone because a guy from D13 almost lost his job because of that being leaked. Probably about 100 people have it.

Originally posted by Punkishlyevil
The only rare things I have are the Billy Corgan demo of Taproot (mp3) and the video of it. But I can't give that to anyone because a guy from D13 almost lost his job because of that being leaked. Probably about 100 people have it. Everyone has that one.

Originally posted by agnew


Like, woah. Thanks

Originally posted by agnew

ended up getting the 2 tapes from BC (gravity/F&E - small PoI above- the gravity demos came on a 90m cassette the day before F&E, which he couldn't find or hadn't made yet or something..

not to be some nostalgic dork, but the triple tree might rank as the single greatest community effort and moment for us. right up there with m2 coming out.

good to see you around 34!

The best time I've had on the internet was the morning Machina 2 came out. I stayed up all night, I couldn't believe it. I remember downloading the songs off the NSPAA as they were still being uploaded. Cause I'm on the ball! :D

Originally posted by CoolAsIceCream
Everyone has that one.

It wasn't available for very long. :shrug:

Originally posted by Sehki
Agnew - terribly interesting post.

To everyone - I'm going to try and compile the information that's being posted here. There's a ton of stuff suddenly, and there should be a way to keep track of it. I'll give it a shot tomorrow, doing a preliminary run.


That sounds like a good idea. As Agnew said, we should also send any applicable info to the spfc so that we can keep it up to date. This thread will be all for naught if it just dies out and we have to rehash all of it again down the line.

Chris Hill

"This falls in the 'hit song' category"---BC, 8/10/88

If for some reason this thread is deleted, it has been archived, in the Netphoria archives, as well as to my hard drive. This has been some incredible reading, thanks to everyone who has contributed.

Archived thread:http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55556

Originally posted by Jason Smith
good to see you around 34! Oh yeah. I agree with this statment. It's been a while. It'd be nice to bump into you again.

Originally posted by Dead
The best time I've had on the internet was the morning Machina 2 came out. I stayed up all night, I couldn't believe it. I remember downloading the songs off the NSPAA as they were still being uploaded. Cause I'm on the ball! :D
that was the one time i knew about the ball
and was relatively close to it
me usually ->:confused:

Originally posted by Jeter
i taped the pumpkins show at reading festival 95
AUD DAT - 80m CSB > D7 ???

Originally posted by agnew


i never really "praise" any posts, but damn that was some great reading. thanks for sharing.

Originally posted by The Gaddrow
Oh yeah. I agree with this statment. It's been a while. It'd be nice to bump into you again.
I thought I saw you at the APC show here, but I was too far away. Cracked me up at the end when the bassist called James back over & teased Today, though.

Oh, and hi to everyone else, too. Been a loooong time...

Originally posted by agnew

I thought I saw you at the APC show here, but I was too far away. Cracked me up at the end when the bassist called James back over & teased Today, though.

Oh, and hi to everyone else, too. Been a loooong time...

so you aren't kickin it live in japan any more?

all right; I have a compilation of all the dates and sources people have mentioned (took like 3-4 hours!).

what I suggest now, to keep this WONDERFUL brainstorming going, is contacting all the old bigwigs - like Halteh, Reid, Asselin, etc. - and see who we can goad into posting here about additional items. I don't have terrible ins really but I'll talk to Brandon to see if he can get Halteh to read/post.

Originally posted by Jason Smith


not to be some nostalgic dork, but the triple tree might rank as the single greatest community effort and moment for us. right up there with m2 coming out.

good to see you around 34!

I absolutely agree.

Originally posted by Sehki
all right; I have a compilation of all the dates and sources people have mentioned (took like 3-4 hours!).

what I suggest now, to keep this WONDERFUL brainstorming going, is contacting all the old bigwigs - like Halteh, Reid, Asselin, etc. - and see who we can goad into posting here about additional items. I don't have terrible ins really but I'll talk to Brandon to see if he can get Halteh to read/post.

I asked Dave privately to post and he politely declined. I didn't really expect him to, and to be honest, I really don't blame him. The guy has done so much for this community and everyime he posts people usually blast him on his comparisons or his weight. It pains a fan like myself to have Dave decline, but I respect his wishes and his contributions.

-GK

Originally posted by Richard D. James


everyime he posts people usually blast him on his comparisons or his weight.
-GK

i dont understand this part. could you explain.

Originally posted by DrHalscott


i dont understand this part. could you explain.

I am not talking about Reid here, I am talking about Asselin. Everytime the guy posts people tell him to stuff it up his fat ass or something like that. To me, that would get old.

-GK

Originally posted by Richard D. James


I am not talking about Reid here, I am talking about Asselin. Everytime the guy posts people tell him to stuff it up his fat ass or something like that. To me, that would get old.

-GK

hey man im not a real netphorian so i have no idea what your referring to. i was just wondering what you meant.

so is this asselin guy youre talking about loaded with shows and whatnot? what makes him so special?

I like this thread a lot, all these posts are making me nostalgic! Pumpkins brought me a lot of good memories through their concerts, but I think what I remember more was collaborating with all the great people I've met online to find something great or share stories about the band, trading, traveling, whatever.

One of my better memories is meeting an old trader here in Toronto (I’ll leave his name out of this for his sake) and later learning that he not only has the a rare cassette tape with misc. 88-89 demos, but a compilation video of 15 or so random performance from 88-91! Even two MARKED videos!! I didn't think I'd ever get my hands on any of it, but sure enough one day he lent the cassette and maybe a year after that he gave me the video with the orders "don't tell me what you do with this, I don't want to know" haha, that was pretty awesome, I remember how excited I was to finally watch the thing. Some of you might know this as the "pyscho" video; interspersed throughout the 2 hour film is short interviews with 2-3 serial killers and even a panoramic shot of Billy and Bob English sitting in the crowd at the Geraldo show! No joke! Lot of crazy performances, even videos of the band sound checking She and There it goes. Even at one point the band breaks out into Oui Henri, but that segment quickly ends after about 5 seconds. Turns out the cassette and video came from an old friend of the bands (Elyse?) who posted the stuff on ebay except she made a typo in the title so the stuff was never made very public. I believe it was this Toronto guy and Dave Asselin who pooled in for the stuff. The cassette, the Ignoffo tape, is probably out there already, although I think the RTS quickly replaced that. As for the video, it's boxed away somewhere in my house, I was gonna work out a deal with Dave for his lower gen vid to put it on DVD, but I think we both lost interest fast. I'd be willing to do it still, but who really knows what Dave's upto...maybe even a father now!

Hey RTS that reminds me of the time that Todd White and I (there was more people I think - this is all a blur) pooled in money to buy the RTS from Mike Potential. Turns out he hit rock bottom and something like $200 was enough to get him to send us the CDs. We quickly ran a tape tree after that, I don't think that was a good idea for his sake though. Didn't Billy sue him? Speaking of Todd, we even once ran a whole charade to get demos from Ron Roesing, we pooled together like 20 people to get marked demos from him. He sent a lot of ton of other random shit…oh and the Nothing Ever Changes demos. He even sent this really freaky brochure thing with all these poems about Billy. Apparently the guy claims to be like Billy’s “chosen” counterpart because they both had a birth mark on their arms or some shit.

So many memories...hmm..let me think here....oh yeah, another great find, I remember one of the first times I met Todd was over some cassette he got from some very sketchy dude. The story just sounded too weird, but it was the machina acoustic demos from guy who made a cassette copy from a girl who was a niece of a (i think) Chicago Blackhawk who got a CD from Billy because they were friends. I think it was Chris Wainscott who later tracked down the niece got a cd copy. That was cool.

As for all these finds and leaks, I think there are lots of good things out there that will get out. I keep getting random tidbits of info from people about certain tapes, so who knows what might happen. It sucks I've lost interest in all of this, clinging to every new show, demo, rarity, whatever is what got me through high school.

Cheers,
--Fares

EDIT: I found these on my computer. I think they're from the package we got from Ron
http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/01.jpg
http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/02.jpg
http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/03.jpg
http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/04.jpg
http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/marked.jpg
http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/markedletter1.txt

ok as for the text file....maybe someone can help and old man out, but at some point i had on my computer 4 scanned jpegs of letters sent from members of the marked to i think a friend in Chicago? It was a handwritten that wasn't very legible, that text file is my attempt at it. I no longer have the jpes, but i did print them out. They're somewhere around here.

Originally posted by Halteh
from guy who made a cassette copy from a girl who was a niece of a (i think) Chicago Blackhawk who got a CD from Billy because they were friends.


:rofl: sounds like one of those celebrity jokes, like I know the brother of the friend of the cousin of the girlfriend of the drummer...

Great post, Fares. Thanks for the stories. I remember vaguely hearing about a lot of that stuff a couple years ago when I first came by here, but I wasn't nearly as interested in trading then as I am now. :(

I was thinking maybe (because we have so many tapers around here) that perhaps we could set up a kind of resource for people to try to find new gigs for the community - a place to report findings etc. TSP trading seems to have this kind of aura of hoardyness surrounding it that really hurts noone more than the fans.

Like at Livenirvana.com they have this thing called the LNCU & LNDU - which are concerted efforts for the community to circulate new shows and to help people out in finding shows.

Like they have a special pool of shows (master clones etc_ that are 'rare' to act as a potential trading tool to use to bargain with traders and stuff.

It seems that TSP is different from Nirvana though in that people know that a lot of upgrades, new shows etc exist yet the people who have them refuse to trade them for the reasons they have (valid or whatever).

just a late night semi-sober idea anyways.

Originally posted by kiwi
I was thinking maybe (because we have so many tapers around here) that perhaps we could set up a kind of resource for people to try to find new gigs for the community - a place to report findings etc. TSP trading seems to have this kind of aura of hoardyness surrounding it that really hurts noone more than the fans.

Like at Livenirvana.com they have this thing called the LNCU & LNDU - which are concerted efforts for the community to circulate new shows and to help people out in finding shows.

Like they have a special pool of shows (master clones etc_ that are 'rare' to act as a potential trading tool to use to bargain with traders and stuff.

It seems that TSP is different from Nirvana though in that people know that a lot of upgrades, new shows etc exist yet the people who have them refuse to trade them for the reasons they have (valid or whatever).

just a late night semi-sober idea anyways.

This is kind of problem I'm having right now. I stumbled acrossed some info, no clue what it will lead to maybe just a new date on SPFC, maybe a tape who knows. But because of the way things work in this community I don't really feel comfortable sharing the info and letting others help. It would nice if we could be more open about things.

Originally posted by Rider
But because of the way things work in this community I don't really feel comfortable sharing the info and letting others help. It would nice if we could be more open about things.
Exactly.

I don't know if it is people are afraid of big bad Bolly knocking at their door or something, but we really should try to be more open.

We're all fans of the same band here.

I must admit, this is merely a perspective of a normal trader so I'm not sure how the 'leet' traders work or what their perspectives are.

I mean 90%+ of this community have never heard Avalon - until yesterday when it was leaked. And look how many people have appreciated it (I know I've listened to is a LOT. and made copies for friends who aren't even traders, just people who are into TSP). Hopefully this recent trend of stuff coming out will continue.

What I was suggesting is a kind of more community orientated thing where we could all try to contribute in some way.

For example, I'm 4574643546354 kilometres from Chicago where most of the best stuff is kept, but I'm sure I could contribute master clones, CDs, online sexxorz etc to try to get this stuff out, and then to distribute it (via B+P, bittorrent or whatever).

god i sound communist :erm

Originally posted by kiwi
I was thinking maybe (because we have so many tapers around here) that perhaps we could set up a kind of resource for people to try to find new gigs for the community - a place to report findings etc. TSP trading seems to have this kind of aura of hoardyness surrounding it that really hurts noone more than the fans.

Like at Livenirvana.com they have this thing called the LNCU & LNDU - which are concerted efforts for the community to circulate new shows and to help people out in finding shows.

Like they have a special pool of shows (master clones etc_ that are 'rare' to act as a potential trading tool to use to bargain with traders and stuff.

It seems that TSP is different from Nirvana though in that people know that a lot of upgrades, new shows etc exist yet the people who have them refuse to trade them for the reasons they have (valid or whatever).

just a late night semi-sober idea anyways.

I think the mindsets behind the communities are significantly different. I think a significant part of it, is the fact that there is a lot less Nirvana material in comparison to the volumes of SP material that exist - both found and unfound. Thus, I think the philosophies of collecting are different - the Nirvana community has had 10 years to research and group together their resources, while we've only had 3.5 years. We're but babies in their maturity. I have no doubt that in 6.5 years, something along the lines of the LNCU/LNDU will exist for the Pumpkins; but we have a lot of work yet to do, both in researching this band we love, and in putting aside past transgressions.

We'll get there, though.

Originally posted by Sehki
the Nirvana community has had 10 years to research and group together their resources, while we've only had 3.5 years.
This is true - I hadn't taken the time factor into account.

Originally posted by kiwi

This is true - I hadn't taken the time factor into account.

I mean, we had all the time since 1994 as well, but I think the community was focusing so much on collecting immediately, that we had no opportunity to gather our resources, to regroup as it were. Billy Corgan spat out 24 years worth of material in half that time, and we will be long at work in another 11 years.

I think it's a wonderful idea to have something like the LNCU for the Pumpkins. This has given me an idea - at some point, maybe in a year, I'd open my bootlist as a community B&P - a neverending offer, as it were. I wouldn't be able to do it forever, but I'd do it as long as I had the time and energy. Things like that I think would help restore the good nature of the community, would perhaps put faith back in the fans.

Maybe if a number of people did it, we could have easily attainable shows - I know the Hub is doing business along these lines constantly, but really, there's only a few people in there with a lot of shows, and we all know it takes days to get a download slot.

Just an idea.

That idea of a b+p is a good one - similar to the tree style distribution of the LNDU.

Methinks we should move out of this thread :D

OH and before I forget - is the hub even still going? I applied for the password/account thingy but never got a reply :erm

Originally posted by kiwi
That idea of a b+p is a good one - similar to the tree style distribution of the LNDU.

Methinks we should move out of this thread :D

OH and before I forget - is the hub even still going? I applied for the password/account thingy but never got a reply :erm

They don't send you a reply. Unfortunately. I signed up to, a couple days later, decided to try anyhow. I got in. Go figure.

The new accounts are activated once a day I think. You should be fine.

Have you started a new thread, then?

Re: the LNCU thing, I think this is sorta what the SPLRA (http://www.starla.org/splra/) was supposed to do.. just wasn't at that level of organization yet.. too bad it's not around anymore.

But man, that nirvana shit is some amazing work.. every single bit of stage banter from every recorded show transcribed? Shit. We need to do that! :) I think the spfc code even supports it- I put in generic extra text & image support way back when that could attach to any record, but I think so far Machina II is about the only thing that makes use of it (pix + story of june).

Given the existing code, though, I think we could also make sure the recordings info is as complete as possible.. I never maintained that section, so I have no idea how much stuff isn't in there, but if everything was in there, it'd be pretty easy to pick out dates w/ no known recordings, etc.

I also think it'd be a cool thing to pool resources & get more shit released. Hell, I'd be more than willing to throw in a few things that I have lying around if it got other stuff out. I'm a little afraid of the potential politics that might be involved, though..

Originally posted by Sehki


I mean, we had all the time since 1994 as well, but I think the community was focusing so much on collecting immediately, that we had no opportunity to gather our resources, to regroup as it were. Billy Corgan spat out 24 years worth of material in half that time, and we will be long at work in another 11 years.

I think it's a wonderful idea to have something like the LNCU for the Pumpkins. This has given me an idea - at some point, maybe in a year, I'd open my bootlist as a community B&P - a neverending offer, as it were. I wouldn't be able to do it forever, but I'd do it as long as I had the time and energy. Things like that I think would help restore the good nature of the community, would perhaps put faith back in the fans.

Maybe if a number of people did it, we could have easily attainable shows - I know the Hub is doing business along these lines constantly, but really, there's only a few people in there with a lot of shows, and we all know it takes days to get a download slot.

Just an idea.

I have always had a never ending offer out to anyone who wants anything I have. I have shared stuff on the, I have put up torrents on the groove with in minutes of being aksed for something. I have offered countless B+Ps to people who are on dialup or can not trade online for some reason.

Here is the problem though even though tons of people bitch about SHN's and Flacs and wanting shows what the really want is instant gratification, that's the real reason they want mp3's it really has nothing to do with hard drive space or connection speed.

In 2 years of being on the hub and giving shows to anyone who asked not a single person has taken my offer of B+P, the net has made people lazy, they either want it now or not at all.

Most of the people who would do mail trades and B+P's already have everything they want. I doubt your B+P offer will get any attention at all. Nice thing to do, and I've tried to do it myself, just no one wants to make 2 simple trips to the post office anymore.

Originally posted by agnew
But man, that nirvana shit is some amazing work.. every single bit of stage banter from every recorded show transcribed? Shit. We need to do that! :) I think the spfc code even supports it- I put in generic extra text & image support way back when that could attach to any record, but I think so far Machina II is about the only thing that makes use of it (pix + story of june).
I know it's insane huh - get me every tsp show and I'd do it freely ;) TSP has some pretty crazy rants too. I'd think we'd need more than one person to work on 20+ years of shows worth of banter though.

Originally posted by agnew
Given the existing code, though, I think we could also make sure the recordings info is as complete as possible.. I never maintained that section, so I have no idea how much stuff isn't in there, but if everything was in there, it'd be pretty easy to pick out dates w/ no known recordings, etc.
Absolutely. And it's not that hard anyways - just pick through a tradelist with known source info and check through.

Originally posted by agnew
I'm a little afraid of the potential politics that might be involved, though..
indeed :/

Originally posted by agnew
I'm a little afraid of the potential politics that might be involved, though..

Indeed, that is the risk we run. For now, or at least, when it got started, I would propose that we stay away from the ... leeter, unreleased stuff - the weighted items. We could set the system up, get it slowly moving, and then I think the rest would follow, eventually.

Honestly, I think to some extent the trading community needs to evolve somehow along these lines, or we face slowly evolving to extinction.

p.s: I had actually thought about that stage banter thing before seeing the LNCU; I thought about transcribing all alt. lyrics + banter. :noway: I'm crazy.

Originally posted by Rider
what the really want is instant gratification

not a single person has taken my offer of B+P
I think you're right. Every single B+P I've ever offered, I get people who sign up but one out of ten will actually send discs. I've also had people seek me out, request a B+P, then never send discs. When I've been a branch on a tree, I have to hound the leafs to send in their stuff if they want to be in-cluded (Todd White, I am looking at you!!). :p

I posted my bootlist this week.

A day later a guy from England has asked me for a B&P. I agreed.

The need is out there.

Originally posted by agnew
Re: the LNCU thing, I think this is sorta what the SPLRA (http://www.starla.org/splra/) was supposed to do.. just wasn't at that level of organization yet.. too bad it's not around anymore.

But man, that nirvana shit is some amazing work.. every single bit of stage banter from every recorded show transcribed? Shit. We need to do that! :) I think the spfc code even supports it- I put in generic extra text & image support way back when that could attach to any record, but I think so far Machina II is about the only thing that makes use of it (pix + story of june).

Given the existing code, though, I think we could also make sure the recordings info is as complete as possible.. I never maintained that section, so I have no idea how much stuff isn't in there, but if everything was in there, it'd be pretty easy to pick out dates w/ no known recordings, etc.

I also think it'd be a cool thing to pool resources & get more shit released. Hell, I'd be more than willing to throw in a few things that I have lying around if it got other stuff out. I'm a little afraid of the potential politics that might be involved, though..

OK I'll bring this up here since we are talking about it. For awhile now I've wanted to create a database for all the MD5's/Fingerprints of pumpkins shows that are being traded. Then I thought we really need a site like Live Nirvana. We already have The SPFC but beyond listing every song and setlist not much was done past that (an amazing amount of work and a job well done, a big thank you to everyone who built SPFC). I think it would be great if on the bottom of the shows page where we have all known source info what if there was anoter box with a link that you could click on and get the md5. I would be willing to work on this and I'm sure if people helped me we could have most of it done in a few weeks.

The SPFC is amazing but I think it should be allowed to evolve and expand as times change and new forms of trading come around.

Originally posted by Sehki
p.s: I had actually thought about that stage banter thing before seeing the LNCU; I thought about transcribing all alt. lyrics + banter. :erm I'm crazy.
SPFC already has a bunch of live lyrics up. I'd considered stage banter before, too, but never got around to it. But yeah- there's 4 different live I Am One transcriptions up already, as well as a few other live & alternate versions (demo version lyrics, HKK from MP, etc.). Maybe I should throw something up on the TH page about taking banter transcriptions. :>

Anyway. Back to stories- I just found a huge file of notes from the last tour w/ a ton of stuff from bc.. when I'm done reading through it I'll try to pick out & summarize the coolest bits of info.

Originally posted by Rider


OK I'll bring this up here since we are talking about it. For awhile now I've wanted to create a database for all the MD5's/Fingerprints of pumpkins shows that are being traded. Then I thought we really need a site like Live Nirvana. We already have The SPFC but beyond listing every song and setlist not much was done past that (an amazing amount of work and a job well done, a big thank you to everyone who built SPFC). I think it would be great if on the bottom of the shows page where we have all known source info what if there was anoter box with a link that you could click on and get the md5. I would be willing to work on this and I'm sure if people helped me we could have most of it done in a few weeks.

The SPFC is amazing but I think it should be allowed to evolve and expand as times change and new forms of trading come around.

I'm no FLAC/SHN expert, so just a quick question; the CRC checks change with each digital copy; theoretically, one digital copy of 00.09.21 isn't the same as another ripped by a different person, even if encoded the same way. So this would rely solely on digital transfers being the medium of trade. Now, would the CRCs change if say, I downloaded the stock 00.09.21, then burned it, then ripped it to trade?

Originally posted by agnew

SPFC already has a bunch of live lyrics up. I'd considered stage banter before, too, but never got around to it. But yeah- there's 4 different live I Am One transcriptions up already, as well as a few other live & alternate versions (demo version lyrics, HKK from MP, etc.). Maybe I should throw something up on the TH page about taking banter transcriptions. :>

Anyway. Back to stories- I just found a huge file of notes from the last tour w/ a ton of stuff from bc.. when I'm done reading through it I'll try to pick out & summarize the coolest bits of info.

I was thinking something along the lines of this:

http://www.iceage.org/silverfuck/

That's Slurpee's site that (ideally) will hold ever single version of Silverfuck, lyrically anyhow. We all know Silverfuck isn't the only song that Billy often changed, and so I was just thinking along those lines.

Anyhow, I think this would be something we'd want to focus on later, it doesn't seem as important to me.

p.s: that BC file sounds rocking!

Originally posted by Sehki


I'm no FLAC/SHN expert, so just a quick question; the CRC checks change with each digital copy; theoretically, one digital copy of 00.09.21 isn't the same as another ripped by a different person, even if encoded the same way. So this would rely solely on digital transfers being the medium of trade. Now, would the CRCs change if say, I downloaded the stock 00.09.21, then burned it, then ripped it to trade?

If you burned it properly, You can use EAC to rip it and as long as you have your offsets sets and other settings set correctly then you should end up with wavs file that are an exaxt match to the ones you used to burn the cd. As long as you recompress the files the same way as the orginal the md5 will match.

But more and more people trade SHN/Flac alot of people who have traded audio have made the change because it's almost impossable to screw something up when trading data CDs.

I'll give an exmple of something that happend to me a few months ago. I'm on the hub checking shares and I notice a new Papa M show, So I start downloading it. Right away I notice something wrong all the copies on the hub are different. People hsvr renamed the files and made new md5's. Since there is no where I can go to see the orgianl MD5 I'm now forced to either live witht he fact that I may have a screwed up show, or track down the person who transfered the show and get a copy of his MD5.

If I had a good MD5 I'm sure I would have found that at least on of the copies matched it. This happens alot and an MD5 database will help preseve things.

Originally posted by Rider


If you burned it properly, You can use EAC to rip it and as long as you have your offsets sets and other settings set correctly then you should end up with wavs file that are an exaxt match to the ones you used to burn the cd. As long as you recompress the files the same way as the orginal the md5 will match.

But more and more people trade SHN/Flac alot of people who have traded audio have made the change because it's almost impossable to screw something up when trading data CDs.

I'll give an exmple of something that happend to me a few months ago. I'm on the hub checking shares and I notice a new Papa M show, So I start downloading it. Right away I notice something wrong all the copies on the hub are different. People hsvr renamed the files and made new md5's. Since there is no where I can go to see the orgianl MD5 I'm now forced to either live witht he fact that I may have a screwed up show, or track down the person who transfered the show and get a copy of his MD5.

If I had a good MD5 I'm sure I would have found that at least on of the copies matched it. This happens alot and an MD5 database will help preseve things.

All right, good idea then. I also like the idea of trading data CDs instead of audio CDs; that further insures quality is maintained (plus you can inclu<sp>de md5s and .nfos). This is a good idea for the idea were were initiating in the other thread about making a ... digital tree I guess. I dunno, I'm tired and this is making my head hurt.

I guess the real idea is how to make it MORE effective than the Hub. I don't know if that's possible, though.

Originally posted by Rider
For awhile now I've wanted to create a database for all the MD5's/Fingerprints of pumpkins shows that are being traded. [...]
The SPFC is amazing but I think it should be allowed to evolve and expand as times change and new forms of trading come around.

Like this (http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=1036)?
Not sure if this is the way to go about it, but it's possible to put it there.

It'll be a long time before I ever get around to recoding the entire site w/ a better, more flexible data model (and in a language that isn't proprietary, unsupported, obsolete, and unextensible *sigh*), but what's currently there is still pretty flexible, and I can still make little hacks here & there to add minor functionality that isn't already there. That said, what you're suggesting could easily be done w/ the current code base. All it'd need is someone willing to go through & do all the data entry. :)

Originally posted by Rider

If you burned it properly, You can use EAC to rip it and as long as you have your offsets sets and other settings set correctly then you should end up with wavs file that are an exaxt match to the ones you used to burn the cd. As long as you recompress the files the same way as the orginal the md5 will match.
This is not a realistic situation though, there are so many things you need to take into account that 99.9% of people will not produce an exact copy of the original.

Rider, I like your idea but how do you go about deciding which rip from which cd source gets it's md5 values put up? There are plenty of bad rips or just different rips of the same thing with different md5 values. I'm sure 3-4 different rips of things have passed through the hub over the years. I know you're aware of all this but I'm stating it for the thread/argument.

I don't think there can be one definitive md5 for a particular recording unless it was released directly by the taper and then somehow labelled as the official definitive release of that recording, the standard.

I do not see that happening.

Originally posted by Rider
Since there is no where I can go to see the orgianl MD5 I'm now forced to either live witht he fact that I may have a screwed up show, or track down the person who transfered the show and get a copy of his MD5.

If I had a good MD5 I'm sure I would have found that at least on of the copies matched it. This happens alot and an MD5 database will help preseve things.
Okay this would be helpful, I have done this before with the md5s from zwanphoria. But this only really works with releases directly from the taper who has a definite perfect copy. Unless I'm missing something. What I'm thinking about is all the hundreds of SP shows that have taken place over the last 10 years or whatever. I don't see how you could come up with an official md5 for each of those.

Originally posted by Sehki


All right, good idea then. I also like the idea of trading data CDs instead of audio CDs; that further insures quality is maintained (plus you can inclu<sp>de md5s and .nfos). This is a good idea for the idea were were initiating in the other thread about making a ... digital tree I guess. I dunno, I'm tired and this is making my head hurt.

I guess the real idea is how to make it MORE effective than the Hub. I don't know if that's possible, though.

There is an awesome I idea floating around for something way better than the hub it's alot of work though so we've have never really tried pulling it off. It was something Brian mentioned to me when we were working on changing the hub, and it might be the next step if the registraion solution stops working. Basicallly make the hub private only let people who actually trade and know what they are doing on it. This private hub works as kind of distrubtion center for a massive bittorent site. That;s kind of the rough idea of it. Lots of work and requires alot of comitment from people for it to work though.

Originally posted by Rider


There is an awesome I idea floating around for something way better than the hub it's alot of work though so we've have never really tried pulling it off. It was something Brian mentioned to me when we were working on changing the hub, and it might be the next step if the registraion solution stops working. Basicallly make the hub private only let people who actually trade and know what they are doing on it. This private hub works as kind of distrubtion center for a massive bittorent site. That;s kind of the rough idea of it. Lots of work and requires alot of comitment from people for it to work though.

Maybe, instead of making just one private hub, you have two; a public one, that still functions off the registrations, but let's the people share nada and still leech. Then, you have another, where there's a required share limit - something hefty too, like 10 GBs - and you start a base of searching for the 'unknown' stuff that we've been compiling in here.

Also, that way, in the second hub, stuff circulates quicker, and gets out to the leechers faster. We could even run regular torrents for it, too.

Originally posted by Dead

This is not a realistic situation though, there are so many things you need to take into account that 99.9% of people will not produce an exact copy of the original.

Rider, I like your idea but how do you go about deciding which rip from which cd source gets it's md5 values put up? There are plenty of bad rips or just different rips of the same thing with different md5 values. I'm sure 3-4 different rips of things have passed through the hub over the years. I know you're aware of all this but I'm stating it for the thread/argument.

I don't think there can be one definitive md5 for a particular recording unless it was released directly by the taper and then somehow labelled as the official definitive release of that recording, the standard.

I do not see that happening.

It is a problem and one that would have to be dealt with but in alot of cases we have the exact copy that was taken strait from the master and put right on the hub no cd ripping involved.

Even if we dont go through every past show and add the md5 at least we can add them for shows that are just coming into circulation now.

Regarding the mass B+P or tree idea Sehki had, and what I think you guys have just said, I agree that any trees should be done with data discs. This way there is no altering of data or loss in quality, the end user can then decide what to do with the FLACs or whatever. I know of cases where certain branches of trees have made mistakes and ended up spreading bad copies to tens of people and really polluted the pool. If this is too off topic then whoops.

Originally posted by Dead
Regarding the mass B+P or tree idea Sehki had, and what I think you guys have just said, I agree that any trees should be done with data discs. This way there is no altering of data or loss in quality, the end user can then decide what to do with the FLACs or whatever. I know of cases where certain branches of trees have made mistakes and ended up spreading bad copies to tens of people and really polluted the pool. If this is too off topic then whoops.

I think we're going to lean away from snail mail stuff for now - like Rider pointed out, there's a low interest in that. It's cheaper & easier over the net.

So now we get to problem solve; what's the most effective way to continually distribute? Constantly seed torrents, instead of slots on a Hub?

...shit, could that work?

Originally posted by Sehki


Maybe, instead of making just one private hub, you have two; a public one, that still functions off the registrations, but let's the people share nada and still leech. Then, you have another, where there's a required share limit - something hefty too, like 10 GBs - and you start a base of searching for the 'unknown' stuff that we've been compiling in here.

Also, that way, in the second hub, stuff circulates quicker, and gets out to the leechers faster. We could even run regular torrents for it, too.

The 2 hub idea was talked about a year ago during the Zwan tour, way to many leechers jumping on seeds. It was taking us a week or more to get new shows into good circulation on the hub.

At the time the idea was shot down, there was no easy way to have 2 seperate shares on 2 different hubs.
It's a bit easier now, the problem is twice as much work. If your not constantly watching the hub it devolves into a total mess. We've been registraion only for about a month now and already I'm noticing people gettting lazy and sloppy.

Take it to the other thread dudeys.

It's hard to say if that would work, I'm not really sure. :think:

You just have to look at Sharing The Groove I guess. They have something posted, people suck it dry for a couple days, then it goes dead (from what I've seen). This is not the kind of thing we're aiming for from what I understand. So you'd have to find a way to make it better.

K, here's the highlights of my notes file from the S&P tour.. There's a few interesting bits about studio & live recordings to keep it on-topic, the rest is just for fun. :)

Before Machina came out, BC thought it'd be cool to name the album 'the friends & enemies of modern music', after a society in the 20s & 30s. Hence the 60m bootleg name.

He suggested fucking w/ people on the 2 tapes- don't release everything, give some people some of it, give others all of it, give some people 10th gen analog dubs, but it'd be something so desired that people would get it, & then there'd be one guy "I got the GOOD copy". We told him about the Luke Wasserman PM Jackboot loop "Australian Bonus Track" thing, & how we were gonna release the real thing & call it that, & mess w/ people that way. Don't remember if there was any reaction, or if the subject changed.

His friend has all the early gigs on tape, est. 80-100 hours- they're going through to archive everything. Lots of full gigs & rehearsals, which had a more "visceral" sound.

All he'd say about the unknown instr. from the 60m cs was that it was "post-gish era"

He was impressed w/ Methusela after hearing it again, but as he said, a lot of songs just get cut right off the top & never worked on again.

After talking about giving "Bootleg Dave" the Avalon show, he mentioned having the first show w/ him & James on 4-track. He had to do the cassettes himself- for the Avalon show, he had Bjorn burn the CD, but he wasn't working for them anymore.

One of his assistants went through a bunch of CDs while looking for a Pink Floyd bootleg (Outtakes from Outer Space) that wasn't in its case, including Dio & Rush.

"Doing a live broadcast sort of... fucks the gig." (on the XRT show)

There was a bunch of home demos that he thought were booted out, including sparrow, but he was saving those for "the box set, or you guys won't buy it." Ha.

Talked about the Machina vinyl, & how the needle was jumping off due to the amount of bass.. He said in 20 years they'd have technology that'd be able to reproduce the lower frequencies better, so if it doesn't work now, it's not his fault. Jimmy said SD had more, but then BC said it was tighter. JC: "That fuckin' CD'll wreck your stereo." LOL

Talked about Greatest Hits w/ the singles & a new song, possibly an "over-the-top" version of LMGTYWTY, which they also worked on for machina. Asked if the adore version had been booted out, then described it- the Ric Reuben version, w/ Joey Waronker "doing his best Jimmy Chamberlin", & a basic string arrangement that he wrote, but it wasn't very good- song was too long. The Adore one was more "straight-ahead", but Flood had them do it a bit faster, w/ more open chords.

Said everyone was pretty good at focusing on the shows, & that was the one things they could actually get right over the years.

Towers of Rabble was never demoed or recorded in the studio, only at the DD shows. Those, & everything from the start of MCIS, were recorded on ADAT, so it's all mixable.

Said that he wanted to get to the point where they could set up a 'business' online, not necessarily to make money, but at least to be self-sufficient, where each project would fund the next, etc. "'Cause there's an unlimited supply."

Flood was very into "effects". He kept the band from doing what comes most naturally, but this kept them from going stale.

Said he talked to Virgin about re-issuing each album in the future, in a different light, w/ different track orders, or different tracks. Like, put JLHB on Gish, or a half-finished gish version of La Dolly Vita. There's an acoustic song w/ Jimmy playing bongo, and a Butch Vig remix of the original I Am One 7" that was going to go on the "best buy thing" (5 or 7 track machina promo, can't remember). Or maybe re-sequence gish w/ Drown & Starla. Then SD could be released w/ the original HKK, F&B. Reorder MCIS, maybe replace some tracks w/ B-sides, etc (we all laughed, since JJB had already done so). Tons of extra & alternate adore stuff; the original Perfect was more of an acoustic track, etc.

Originally posted by Sehki

I was thinking something along the lines of this:
http://www.iceage.org/silverfuck/
Which we've got the capability to do already, and a few entries in there (example (http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/song.html?song_id=76&song_type=1)). They're linked from the TH date (http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=709) & song (http://www.spfc.org/tours/song.html?song_id=76) pages as well, although perhaps a little too inconspicuously on the date page (a red asterisk). The stage banter could go in as an 'extra text' bit, which'd work like this (http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/discog.html?discog_id=153&txt_disp=1). If the sidebar buttons for the extra text aren't obvious enough to people, there can be an extra text link somewhere in the main part of the page...

Anyway, as you said, not exactly top priority, but if someone (or more than one) was interested in doing this, I'd certainly put them up.

Originally posted by agnew
His friend has all the early gigs on tape, est. 80-100 hours- they're going through to archive everything. Lots of full gigs & rehearsals, which had a more "visceral" sound.
*eyes pop out*

Originally posted by Sehki


Maybe, instead of making just one private hub, you have two; a public one, that still functions off the registrations, but let's the people share nada and still leech. Then, you have another, where there's a required share limit - something hefty too, like 10 GBs - and you start a base of searching for the 'unknown' stuff that we've been compiling in here.

Also, that way, in the second hub, stuff circulates quicker, and gets out to the leechers faster. We could even run regular torrents for it, too.

I really like this idea. I share everything I download and it seems that alot of people don't seem to do the same, therefore, it then gets harder to get more things to share out. 2 hubs to me is a good idea because then its possible to be on both and not just get stuff needed easier but then you can provide it out if necessary to the other hub easier.

Originally posted by Halteh
http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/markedletter1.txt



Thank you! I've been waiting a long time to read this! Awesome!

Originally posted by agnew
K, here's the highlights of my notes file from the S&P tour.. There's a few interesting bits about studio & live recordings to keep it on-topic, the rest is just for fun. :)

That was a great read Eric, thanks for the information. Just wanted to clarify something:

After talking about giving "Bootleg Dave" the Avalon show, he mentioned having the first show w/ him & James on 4-track. He had to do the cassettes himself- for the Avalon show, he had Bjorn burn the CD, but he wasn't working for them anymore.


Do you have any idea if this is the Chicago 21 show (1988/07/09) or is it something else?

And he wasn't working on what for who? On releasing shows for traders? On remastering stuff with Bjorn?

Again, thanks for the info. This thread continues to rock.

Originally posted by agnew
Like this (http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=1036)?
Not sure if this is the way to go about it, but it's possible to put it there.
i think the dedication in the text file should be added too. :)

but anyway, thanks eric for your info and all your hard work over the years with the spfc (and everyone else involved too). i'll probably email you guys soon with some updates that are needed.

(This will be a long post, bear with me)

Thanks a lot Eric, that was a very interesting read. One caveat to consider is that all of this info about archiving and wanting to set up a way for people to get the music is from 2000. Didn't I read that Billy was a bit less than pleased with the reaction to Judas O (people complaining about what was/wasn't on there, etc.)? No one has talked to him for a few years, so who knows if he's still interested in getting old Pumpkins stuff archived or if he wants to move on with his life. I'd at least like to see the archived info get put online, but unfortunately most of Billy's online projects start off promising and then kind of die out. Regardless, if he needed people to go through his stuff and put information on the spfc about it, I'm sure there would be many volunteers who would do so for free :-) Is anyone still in contact with Billy anymore?

The distribution system is another thing that's been kicking around for awhile. A lot of people lament that the internet has made people lazy because they don't trade discs anymore, but downloading via torrents or the hub actually gets us better quality discs in the end because there's not the risk of sending stuff through the mail or someone making a bad rip. You know immediately from the MD5 whether it's an exact clone of the original or not. The only unfortunate thing is that it discourages cooperative trading. If this old-timer can come to grips with the new technology, then so can everyone else! He he.

But as far as a system would go for Billy to release stuff and still get paid for it, if we have a well-moderated hub that watches for "official releases" (which we do) and we watch STG to make sure they didn't get posted there (the mods there will take down official releases if they see them also), he could set up some sort of Apple iTunes-like pay-per-download type thing. This would pretty much eliminate the fear of things getting put on eBay, since it would be cheaper to buy straight from the source than bid on a secondhand copy. This would require quite a bit of setup work though (even after all the shows have been catalogued), so it would require Billy to hire people to do it. Also, I'm sure all of us leet traders would much rather pay for lossless downloads than AAC files (or whatever Apple has on iTunes), so that would require quite a bit of server space and bandwidth. As long as we policed ourselves a bit, I think this could work as far as allowing BC to at least break even on it.

And finally, the politics of rare trading. This has always been the most frustrating thing for me, as is evidenced by my comments over on the main board the other day. Personally I think we would get a lot more accomplished if we all worked together, but I've personally witnessed 8 years of that *not* happening in this community and to expect it to change now is kind of unrealistic. Back in the day, one of the "old guard" sent me a copy of Previeu and told me to spread it to everyone. This doesn't seem as leet anymore, but it was a relatively big deal in 1999 when it happened, because things were just starting to get converted to CD and we didn't have nearly the quality of older demos that we do now. Anyway, he came to me under an alias (although he later revealed his identity) because he was afraid that if the rest of his clique knew he was distributing their stuff they would cut him off (and this was even after he wasn't really online anymore!). Somewhere around this time also, John Mulhausen posted mp3s of Sequence 4, which from what I heard through the grapevine pretty much ensured he'd "never get anything cool again". I think even if we had a private hub, there would still be people who would find something and hold out. It's just human nature. And this isn't even considering items obtained from contacts with the band who just don't want their things circulated.

The unfortunate thing is that (and maybe it's not like this anymore) if someone posted information about something they had and couldn't trade out, they would get hounded about it and called a hoarder and whatnot. This ensures that not only won't we get to hear the music, but our chronology of the Pumpkins remains incomplete. Eric, hopefully even if you decide not to release what you've got, you can post any cool information about it if it's not already there so we can fill in the gaps.

This thread has been great, keep it up!

Man, there's so much to talk about. Good God!

As for an official thing online, to sell live gigs or whatever (that BC talked about), if anyone can contact him, I think it'd be wise to set it up the way Phish does their stuff. They have every show available for download at a relatively reasonable price ($9.99 I think); for that price, you can download it in whatever manner you like - SHN, or MP3 (maybe even FLAC now), and do whatever you like with it. Obviously, sharing it is against the rules, and the Hub and STG would always be on the look out for it... but I think it'd be worth it. Big time.

As for the distribution idea, the only problems are the ones we currently have (and will always be a problem) - hard drive space and bandwidth. I know if I had more empty room on my HD I'd share more, but I don't. And BW would become a SIGNIFICANT problem if we started working on the torrent idea; you can limit the amount that's uploaded per torrent, but if you loaded up any large amounts of torrents it wouldn't matter anyway.

And that brings up the third problem, with BT itself - anyone sharing via BT would have to have 100+ torrents running, and any number of them could be running at a given time. It doesn't seem... feasible, however much we might desire it.

What we need, is BT applied to the Hub; where downloading doesn't take a slot, and you can be leeched in turn for what you have. Communal sharing. Of course, no program like that exists. But I think thats what we would need.

Not sure if this applies to what you just said Sehki but there are websites that somehow keep track of your upload and download ratio of Torrents and it will show whether you share or not. And then people who dont share get their accounts cancelled.

About Billy putting stuff out, I always have said that if he had some people handling the business part of things, he could put together cdrs or even press real cds, and sell them through a website for $10 or $10 and they would be mailed out to the customers. I think this could be done cheaply and you could easily make back your money assuming you had enough customers. Once CD or live show per month or two months. I think it would work great.

Originally posted by Dead
Not sure if this applies to what you just said Sehki but there are websites that somehow keep track of your upload and download ratio of Torrents and it will show whether you share or not. And then people who dont share get their accounts cancelled.

Yeah, you're right, I had forgotten about those kind of sites. They're popular, too. The only problem is, if we started using BT, only certain shows would be available at certain points, and then they'd get reseeded every once and a while - maybe when there was demand for it. The problem is, you can't have 200 torrents running at any given point, so it wouldn't be as useful as the Hub.

Yeah I'm against the torrents only thing. Torrents are useful for getting something new out to many people very fast, but not as a long term kind of thing.

Originally posted by Dead
Yeah I'm against the torrents only thing. Torrents are useful for getting something new out to many people very fast, but not as a long term kind of thing.

yeah I don't think it could work.

you changed your avatar to something less sexy! pffft.

Originally posted by ChrisHill
No one has talked to him for a few years, so who knows if he's still interested in getting old Pumpkins stuff archived or if he wants to move on with his life. I'd at least like to see the archived info get put online, but unfortunately most of Billy's online projects start off promising and then kind of die out. Regardless, if he needed people to go through his stuff and put information on the spfc about it, I'm sure there would be many volunteers who would do so for free :-) Is anyone still in contact with Billy anymore?
i would love to see billy be a little more motivated with making sure that the fans who want the music will get it. but i don't see this happening anytime soon. we all know who has the most contact/hookup with billy these days, and the way things are being handled; and right now, it's shitty. for a certain show not to be released, because the master of leetness didn't properly point his mics at the stacks, resulting in a B recording and an embarassed taper, is one of the reasons that this community has fallen apart.
or how about going out of your way to not help get in a better rig at a show like 04.19.04? for what? to make sure you have the only tape? or to not feel inadequate because your equipment isn't the best?
if this is the kind of mindset that billy wants to be in charge of what happens in this community, than that sucks, because nobody can get anything unless they want to suck king leet's dick. and i'm not talking about billy.
i'm just glad that throughout the longevity of most of the pumpkins' career, there was an active trading community that produced a lot of good shit. whether or not there is a whole lot out there, i have no idea; but i just can't see any good coming out of billy digging through the archives, when we all know who he's going to give it to, and what they're going to do with it.

sigh.

does a b0lly-demo of identify exist?

Originally posted by Crestfallen33
does a b0lly-demo of identify exist?
Yeah unless someone destroyed it.

Originally posted by Dead

Yeah unless someone destroyed it.
how do we know that?

Originally posted by Crestfallen33

how do we know that?

how do we know that unless its been destroyed it still exists :confused:

For anything DVD related....

Fares, Agnew, anyone with NTSC video stuff, I have an awesome VCR for stuff. 11 heads, digital noise reduction (for video), loads of enhancements. If anyone wants to get stuff transferred, I think you should atleast have me run you a copy of the tape the miniDV just becuase of how well my vcr plays back material.

BTW, video wise, right now I have to transfer....

5-6-2000 (Hi-8 master)
5-8-2000 (Hi-8 master)
7-5-1996 (1st gen VHS)
8-2-1998 (1st gen VHS) (PS, sorry I've had this for so long Fares. When I would play this on my old vcr is would look horrible, and now it looks perfect)
11-3-2000 (1st gen VHS, I know who has the master, but its hard to set up a trade with him)

Thats all for what I have on hand. I've been doing a lot of transfers that I have not posted about here. Again to bring up livenirvana, they have a section dedicated to all the DVDs out there, and that, personally, I think would be pretty damn cool.

OK, this is whats 'on the way' in the upcoming months or years :)

Smashing Pumpkins 1992-01-28 Koln, Germany 98 9 Close - 1st generation
Smashing Pumpkins 1992-08-29 Reading Fest., U.K. 45 9- Close - 1st generation
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-02-09 Fraufurt, Germany 90 9+ 1st gen, pro-shot, great!!!
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-08-12 Chicago, IL + TV clips live 65 9+/10- pro-shot,1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-09-02 Frankfurt, Germany 90 9 2nd. gen. 3 camera angle, great!
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-10-01 SNL Rehearsal, NYC 40 9 pro-shot, 2nd gen
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-10-21 Los Angeles, CA. (Palladium) 67 9- (Close) 1st Gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-11-20 Washington, DC 95 9 very close,tripod(nice),1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-12-08 Chicago, IL 60 9 pro-shot 1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-01-01 Saturday Nite Live Rehearsals 40 10 2nd gen,super!(exact date not accurate)
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-02-24 Munich, Germany 80 10 1st gen. pro shot
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-02-24 Munich, Germany 65 9/9- 2nd gen, multi camera
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-04-15 Williamsburg, Va. 100 9/9- 1st gen. waist up close, tripod
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-04-18 Albany, NY 72 9- 2nd gen, close
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-07-07 Las Vegas, NV 75 9- 1st gen , stage view
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-08-06 Randalls Island, New York City 80 9/9- very close,tripod shot,2nd gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-02 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 1st gen,very close,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-03 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 1st gen,very close,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-06 Washington DC 135 9/9- 1st gen,tripod shot,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-26 Rio, Brazil (Pro-Shot) 70 10 1st gen,acoustic/electric,recommended!
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-30 San Diego, CA 100 9- 1st gen,raw,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins * 1996-02-07 San Francisco, CA 100 9- 1st gen,close,nice,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-04-07 Dusseldorf, Germany (PRO) 75 10 1st gen,pro-shot,super!
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-06-16 San Francisco, CA (Pro-Shot) 37 9+/10- 2nd gen,pro-shot,looks amazing,recommended
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-07-10 Landover, MD 115 9/9+ tripod/close, last show before O.D.
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-07 Philly, PA 120 9- 2nd gen,close,nice,new line-up
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-14 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 2nd gen,almost head to toe close
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-22 Minneapolis, MN 95 9- 1st gen,close,New drummer
Smashing Pumpkins * 1998-05-23 London, UK (Pro-Shot) 90 10 pro-shot, master, new stuff & old, hot!
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-19 Toronto, Canada (Pro-Shot) 95 10 1st gen, pro-shot,intimate & Int.
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-27 Washington, DC 120 9- 1st gen, real close, new/old stuff
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-28 Philly, PA 122 9 1st gen., very close
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-30 Phily, PA 122 9 pro-shot, master, new stuff & old, hot!
Smashing Pumpkins * 1998-08-01 RadioCityMusicHall, NYC 123 9/9- 2 cam mix,tripod,very close,diff version of songs
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-08-19 Santiago, Chile [Pro] 145 10 Pro Shot, 1st gen, perfect.
Smashing Pumpkins 1999-10-30 San Fran (10/30-31 Pro) 60 10- Pro-shot,acoustic,2sets,great
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-05-06 Sunrise, FL 135 9/9- 1st gen, super close, nice
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-06-30 Tokyo, Japan 115 10 pro-shot, 1st gen, mint, farewell show
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-01 Amsterdam, Holland (pro-shot) 130 9+ 200 final tour,pro-shot,mint
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-20 Montreal, Canada 47 10 1st gen., pro-shot, festival show

Not all of it since there are lower gens circulating of a few thing, but yea, nice shit, huh?

Last thing for the moment, here is my page

www.tapetrader.com/superb0lly

It has all my transfers on it now, its all up to date.

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions




OK, this is whats 'on the way' in the upcoming months or years :)

Smashing Pumpkins 1992-01-28 Koln, Germany 98 9 Close - 1st generation
Smashing Pumpkins 1992-08-29 Reading Fest., U.K. 45 9- Close - 1st generation
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-02-09 Fraufurt, Germany 90 9+ 1st gen, pro-shot, great!!!
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-08-12 Chicago, IL + TV clips live 65 9+/10- pro-shot,1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-09-02 Frankfurt, Germany 90 9 2nd. gen. 3 camera angle, great!
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-10-01 SNL Rehearsal, NYC 40 9 pro-shot, 2nd gen
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-10-21 Los Angeles, CA. (Palladium) 67 9- (Close) 1st Gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-11-20 Washington, DC 95 9 very close,tripod(nice),1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-12-08 Chicago, IL 60 9 pro-shot 1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-01-01 Saturday Nite Live Rehearsals 40 10 2nd gen,super!(exact date not accurate)
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-02-24 Munich, Germany 80 10 1st gen. pro shot
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-02-24 Munich, Germany 65 9/9- 2nd gen, multi camera
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-04-15 Williamsburg, Va. 100 9/9- 1st gen. waist up close, tripod
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-04-18 Albany, NY 72 9- 2nd gen, close
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-07-07 Las Vegas, NV 75 9- 1st gen , stage view
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-08-06 Randalls Island, New York City 80 9/9- very close,tripod shot,2nd gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-02 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 1st gen,very close,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-03 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 1st gen,very close,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-06 Washington DC 135 9/9- 1st gen,tripod shot,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-26 Rio, Brazil (Pro-Shot) 70 10 1st gen,acoustic/electric,recommended!
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-30 San Diego, CA 100 9- 1st gen,raw,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins * 1996-02-07 San Francisco, CA 100 9- 1st gen,close,nice,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-04-07 Dusseldorf, Germany (PRO) 75 10 1st gen,pro-shot,super!
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-06-16 San Francisco, CA (Pro-Shot) 37 9+/10- 2nd gen,pro-shot,looks amazing,recommended
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-07-10 Landover, MD 115 9/9+ tripod/close, last show before O.D.
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-07 Philly, PA 120 9- 2nd gen,close,nice,new line-up
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-14 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 2nd gen,almost head to toe close
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-22 Minneapolis, MN 95 9- 1st gen,close,New drummer
Smashing Pumpkins * 1998-05-23 London, UK (Pro-Shot) 90 10 pro-shot, master, new stuff & old, hot!
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-19 Toronto, Canada (Pro-Shot) 95 10 1st gen, pro-shot,intimate & Int.
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-27 Washington, DC 120 9- 1st gen, real close, new/old stuff
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-28 Philly, PA 122 9 1st gen., very close
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-30 Phily, PA 122 9 pro-shot, master, new stuff & old, hot!
Smashing Pumpkins * 1998-08-01 RadioCityMusicHall, NYC 123 9/9- 2 cam mix,tripod,very close,diff version of songs
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-08-19 Santiago, Chile [Pro] 145 10 Pro Shot, 1st gen, perfect.
Smashing Pumpkins 1999-10-30 San Fran (10/30-31 Pro) 60 10- Pro-shot,acoustic,2sets,great
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-05-06 Sunrise, FL 135 9/9- 1st gen, super close, nice
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-06-30 Tokyo, Japan 115 10 pro-shot, 1st gen, mint, farewell show
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-01 Amsterdam, Holland (pro-shot) 130 9+ 200 final tour,pro-shot,mint
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-20 Montreal, Canada 47 10 1st gen., pro-shot, festival show

.

Good god almighty

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions

Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-01 Amsterdam, Holland (pro-shot) 130 9+ 200 final tour,pro-shot,mint
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-20 Montreal, Canada 47 10 1st gen., pro-shot, festival show



are those dates of broadcast? they certainly arent dates of performance...

Originally posted by bowmaan


are those dates of broadcast? they certainly arent dates of performance...

Amsterdam? Hmm... I don't see any Amsterdam shows.

And the Montreal is the 8/12 Summersault show, I presume.

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions
For anything DVD related....

I can't not say this... I make way better menus than him!!!

<img src="http://forums.netphoria.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=943225">

Originally posted by Halteh
http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/marked.jpg



I actually have this flyer...I purchased it off eBay some time ago, and now its hanging on my wall in my room in a frame...pretty cool though, indeed.

As for getting stuff out into the community, I'll have to go thru all of my stuff, but I might have a few videos and things you might be interested in from trading back in the day, I'll have to take a look, everything is in boxes because I kinda lost interest, but since I can burn DVDs and stuff now all I need to get is a capture card...and hopefully I can contribute some stuff to the community as well. :)

Originally posted by Dead

I can't not say this... I make way better menus than him!!!


I said I just wanted to transfer the video to miniDV and other people can make the actual dvds.

Originally posted by bowmaan


are those dates of broadcast? they certainly arent dates of performance...

I have no clue what the actual dates are. He went through his whole tape collection, something like 500 tapes, and just printed up a rough list.

Originally posted by Mr MacPhisto


already did that

and? any info on what he thinks about it?

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions


OK, this is whats 'on the way' in the upcoming months or years :)

Smashing Pumpkins 1992-01-28 Koln, Germany 98 9 Close - 1st generation
Smashing Pumpkins 1992-08-29 Reading Fest., U.K. 45 9- Close - 1st generation
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-02-09 Fraufurt, Germany 90 9+ 1st gen, pro-shot, great!!!
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-08-12 Chicago, IL + TV clips live 65 9+/10- pro-shot,1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-09-02 Frankfurt, Germany 90 9 2nd. gen. 3 camera angle, great!
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-10-01 SNL Rehearsal, NYC 40 9 pro-shot, 2nd gen
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-10-21 Los Angeles, CA. (Palladium) 67 9- (Close) 1st Gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-11-20 Washington, DC 95 9 very close,tripod(nice),1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1993-12-08 Chicago, IL 60 9 pro-shot 1st gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-01-01 Saturday Nite Live Rehearsals 40 10 2nd gen,super!(exact date not accurate)
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-02-24 Munich, Germany 80 10 1st gen. pro shot
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-02-24 Munich, Germany 65 9/9- 2nd gen, multi camera
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-04-15 Williamsburg, Va. 100 9/9- 1st gen. waist up close, tripod
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-04-18 Albany, NY 72 9- 2nd gen, close
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-07-07 Las Vegas, NV 75 9- 1st gen , stage view
Smashing Pumpkins 1994-08-06 Randalls Island, New York City 80 9/9- very close,tripod shot,2nd gen.
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-02 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 1st gen,very close,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-03 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 1st gen,very close,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-06 Washington DC 135 9/9- 1st gen,tripod shot,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-26 Rio, Brazil (Pro-Shot) 70 10 1st gen,acoustic/electric,recommended!
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-01-30 San Diego, CA 100 9- 1st gen,raw,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins * 1996-02-07 San Francisco, CA 100 9- 1st gen,close,nice,acoustic/electric
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-04-07 Dusseldorf, Germany (PRO) 75 10 1st gen,pro-shot,super!
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-06-16 San Francisco, CA (Pro-Shot) 37 9+/10- 2nd gen,pro-shot,looks amazing,recommended
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-07-10 Landover, MD 115 9/9+ tripod/close, last show before O.D.
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-07 Philly, PA 120 9- 2nd gen,close,nice,new line-up
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-14 Toronto, Canada 120 9- 2nd gen,almost head to toe close
Smashing Pumpkins 1996-09-22 Minneapolis, MN 95 9- 1st gen,close,New drummer
Smashing Pumpkins * 1998-05-23 London, UK (Pro-Shot) 90 10 pro-shot, master, new stuff & old, hot!
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-19 Toronto, Canada (Pro-Shot) 95 10 1st gen, pro-shot,intimate & Int.
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-27 Washington, DC 120 9- 1st gen, real close, new/old stuff
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-28 Philly, PA 122 9 1st gen., very close
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-07-30 Phily, PA 122 9 pro-shot, master, new stuff & old, hot!
Smashing Pumpkins * 1998-08-01 RadioCityMusicHall, NYC 123 9/9- 2 cam mix,tripod,very close,diff version of songs
Smashing Pumpkins 1998-08-19 Santiago, Chile [Pro] 145 10 Pro Shot, 1st gen, perfect.
Smashing Pumpkins 1999-10-30 San Fran (10/30-31 Pro) 60 10- Pro-shot,acoustic,2sets,great
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-05-06 Sunrise, FL 135 9/9- 1st gen, super close, nice
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-06-30 Tokyo, Japan 115 10 pro-shot, 1st gen, mint, farewell show
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-01 Amsterdam, Holland (pro-shot) 130 9+ 200 final tour,pro-shot,mint
Smashing Pumpkins 2000-12-20 Montreal, Canada 47 10 1st gen., pro-shot, festival show



looks like the same list that zerozwanny posted earlier.

Originally posted by Verboten



looks like the same list that zerozwanny posted earlier.

exactly what I was thinking.

Originally posted by Sehki


exactly what I was thinking.

It is, Tobin isn't getting the actual tapes, I am :mrpimp:

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions

I said I just wanted to transfer the video to miniDV and other people can make the actual dvds.
Sorry dude, I just wanted to show off.

Originally posted by ******


and? any info on what he thinks about it?
Zwan's shows were released via etree.

Originally posted by Dead

Sorry dude, I just wanted to show off.

Make motion menues, then I'll be impressed :)

Originally posted by starlightvideoproductions

Make motion menues, then I'll be impressed :)
No way, those are lame.

Originally posted by Dead

No way, those are lame.
no

Here are some other interesting bits of info. I used to be in email contact with Dale Meiners of the Marked. I just found an old email he sent me:


Fares
It's Dale Meiners formerly from the Marked here. I spoke to Ron Roesing a couple weeks ago, and he's compiling Marked recordings, so I've dug, and found 20 tpaes - not full, but possibly with Marked recordings/songs. I know I have the first ever recording from my Attic, which last time I listened to it had great songs on it.
I also have the 7 song video we shot in Florida, and a dat or our first professional recording. With Stained Glass Window, Trance, etc. What's on your DAT's? I'd love to hear them again, and chances are I don't have copies of all you have. Let's trade. I have a professional studio, so if you can burn cd's from the DAT's, or duplicate them that would be awesome, if not, I can, and return them. Let me know, Thanks for finding me! DALE
He also attached a picture to the email http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/DALE.jpg

We had a deal worked out until Mike Sims somehow figured this out, he went on to frame me with a webpage he made claiming I was selling Marked tapes (tapes I didn't even have at the time).

Here's another bit. After the Metro show I got a tipoff from my buddy Imre who sent me this:

this guy called XXXXXXXXXXX
got caught taping the show, but he says that his friend
got it all on tape, with a D8 and "some stealth mics"
apparently these guys have better mic setups as well,
since they're both (?) Phish tapers and phish allows taping.

I contacted the guy, Mr. XXX for now, and he replied with:


I have the show on disc, my friend taped it. He, for the most part, paid off the owner of Metro. We have been asked by somebody very important "James" not to circulate this show. A few copies got out. the sourse info is as follows: schoeps
mk4>kc5>cmc6>ad1000>tascam da20 mkII>za2>wav>shn I
will let you know that you will be able to buy this show before the year is over. I can't trade it because we were "hooked up" to keep the show in the garage. Sorry I can't help you out any more.


It sounds unbeleivable, I'm just relaying the news. The email's dated 4/2/01

I'll post any other cool bits I come across or remember.
--Fares

Originally posted by Halteh
Here are some other interesting bits of info. I used to be in email contact with Dale Meiners of the Marked. I just found an old email he sent me:


Fares
It's Dale Meiners formerly from the Marked here. I spoke to Ron Roesing a couple weeks ago, and he's compiling Marked recordings, so I've dug, and found 20 tpaes - not full, but possibly with Marked recordings/songs. I know I have the first ever recording from my Attic, which last time I listened to it had great songs on it.
I also have the 7 song video we shot in Florida, and a dat or our first professional recording. With Stained Glass Window, Trance, etc. What's on your DAT's? I'd love to hear them again, and chances are I don't have copies of all you have. Let's trade. I have a professional studio, so if you can burn cd's from the DAT's, or duplicate them that would be awesome, if not, I can, and return them. Let me know, Thanks for finding me! DALE
He also attached a picture to the email http://68.164.97.38/Ebayt/DALE.jpg

We had a deal worked out until Mike Sims somehow figured this out, he went on to frame me with a webpage he made claiming I was selling Marked tapes (tapes I didn't even have at the time).

Here's another bit. After the Metro show I got a tipoff from my buddy Imre who sent me this:

this guy called XXXXXXXXXXX
got caught taping the show, but he says that his friend
got it all on tape, with a D8 and "some stealth mics"
apparently these guys have better mic setups as well,
since they're both (?) Phish tapers and phish allows taping.

I contacted the guy, Mr. XXX for now, and he replied with:


I have the show on disc, my friend taped it. He, for the most part, paid off the owner of Metro. We have been asked by somebody very important "James" not to circulate this show. A few copies got out. the sourse info is as follows: schoeps
mk4>kc5>cmc6>ad1000>tascam da20 mkII>za2>wav>shn I
will let you know that you will be able to buy this show before the year is over. I can't trade it because we were "hooked up" to keep the show in the garage. Sorry I can't help you out any more.


It sounds unbeleivable, I'm just relaying the news. The email's dated 4/2/01

I'll post any other cool bits I come across or remember.
--Fares

Way to keep on track Fares, see, it is coming back to you. I am assuming you are talking about the last Metro show, and you have a sample of this since it sounds unbelievable?

-GK

Originally posted by Crestfallen33

no
They are when it's just an animation of his personal logo. Anyway, let's quit arguing or we'll ruin the thread. Maybe I should use my mod powers and delete the whole dvd thing.

I talked to this jerk Mike Sims on the hub once, I don't mind naming him since he's a jerk and nobody likes him. He mentioned the Arising video, and "some soundcheck from a rooftop." He told me who taped the sound check but I shouldn't name him on here. I don't know anything else about the sound check. I believe it's a video.

Mike said either the sound check or the arising vid may have one song missing at the end cause the taper ran out of room.

Other things he mentioned:

"there are some second stage lolla 94 recordings as well"

"DD MTV footage...or 'alleged'. alleged footage as some called it"

"12.12.98 kroq billy video"

"the 10.31.98 kiss video. the kiss halloween opener. where they dressed liked beatles. there were 2 (maybe even 3) audio sources for that."

He also talked about a Metro 2000-12-2 recording:

i have silverfuck alone complete from DAT with coresounds
no cuts, no hidden mic
the quality is good, compare it to the DAT of metro in dec99
no cuts, no mic hides
no talking close enough to make out the words

Originally posted by dean moriaty


how do we know that unless its been destroyed it still exists :confused:
I think it was Natalie, or maybe someone Billy worked with, who said that Billy brought in the demo with his vocals, and it sounded awesome, but that Billy wanted a female vocalist for it.

Originally posted by Halteh



I have the show on disc, my friend taped it. He, for the most part, paid off the owner of Metro. We have been asked by somebody very important "James" not to circulate this show. A few copies got out. the sourse info is as follows: schoeps
mk4>kc5>cmc6>ad1000>tascam da20 mkII>za2>wav>shn I
will let you know that you will be able to buy this show before the year is over. I can't trade it because we were "hooked up" to keep the show in the garage. Sorry I can't help you out any more.




I assume you've tried to contact him multiple times since then?

Originally posted by Dead
I talked to this jerk Mike Sims on the hub once, I don't mind naming him since he's a jerk and nobody likes him. He mentioned the Arising video, and "some soundcheck from a rooftop." He told me who taped the sound check but I shouldn't name him on here. I don't know anything else about the sound check. I believe it's a video.

Mike said either the sound check or the arising vid may have one song missing at the end cause the taper ran out of room.

Other things he mentioned:

"there are some second stage lolla 94 recordings as well"

"DD MTV footage...or 'alleged'. alleged footage as some called it"

"12.12.98 kroq billy video"

"the 10.31.98 kiss video. the kiss halloween opener. where they dressed liked beatles. there were 2 (maybe even 3) audio sources for that."


Are you aware that you just listed off most of Ben Golombs SP masters? I have the arising video, the kroq video, and the kiss show which I traded "rare" with ben...ofcourse just before i leaked RTS. Sorry Ben

ps. Sims doesn't have anything that we don't have.
--Fares

Originally posted by Sehki


I assume you've tried to contact him multiple times since then?
'bout 6 mths ago the last time.

--Fares

Originally posted by Richard D. James


Way to keep on track Fares, see, it is coming back to you. I am assuming you are talking about the last Metro show, and you have a sample of this since it sounds unbelievable?

-GK

Yes, the last metro show. I honestly don't have a sample, moreso I am not sure if I even beleive it. 1) Joe Shanahan is NOT going to accept bribes - especially when they run counter to billy's wish. 2) That deck the person speaks of is a home deck! how can you discretely tape the show with a homedeck? you can't! there has to be a very decent amount of people who know this (joe being one of them according to this guy) without saying anything to anyone in the band or affiliated to the band, which begs the question, how does james know? I am not entirely saying this guy is a bull-shitter, but you have to admit the story sounds a little far fetched and doesn't totally add up. I think there might be a chance he has his facts out of whack and a tape still does exist. But not under these exact conditions.

--Fares

Originally posted by Dead
I talked to this jerk Mike Sims on the hub once, I don't mind naming him since he's a jerk and nobody likes him. He mentioned the Arising video, and "some soundcheck from a rooftop." He told me who taped the sound check but I shouldn't name him on here. I don't know anything else about the sound check. I believe it's a video.

Mike said either the sound check or the arising vid may have one song missing at the end cause the taper ran out of room.

Other things he mentioned:

"there are some second stage lolla 94 recordings as well"

"DD MTV footage...or 'alleged'. alleged footage as some called it"

"12.12.98 kroq billy video"

"the 10.31.98 kiss video. the kiss halloween opener. where they dressed liked beatles. there were 2 (maybe even 3) audio sources for that."

He also talked about a Metro 2000-12-2 recording:

i have silverfuck alone complete from DAT with coresounds
no cuts, no hidden mic
the quality is good, compare it to the DAT of metro in dec99
no cuts, no mic hides
no talking close enough to make out the words
i once had a private conversation on the hub with who i believe was mike sims. he told me the same shit about that metro DAT source. he told me he'd trade me for it, but he could only trade out silverfuck. i thought it was quite lame to trade for one song from a complete recording, so i told him i wasn't interested.

he also said how he has the master (was the filmer) of the 08.11.00 video with external mics (csb's). i told him i'd love to get a copy of that show cause i was there. i also told him how i could probably get fares' dat master and use the 48k audio to synch in for a sweet dvd. he didn't have any interest in trading with me after i mentioned you, evil halteh, but he then told me that he used fares' audio for sigur ros at massey hall (cause i guess he videotaped that one too). what a cockmaster.

Originally posted by zerozwan

...but he then told me that he used fares' audio for sigur ros at massey hall (cause i guess he videotaped that one too). what a cockmaster.

Can you really blame him? My audio for that show is nothing short of incredible!

--Fares ;)

Originally posted by Halteh


Are you aware that you just listed off most of Ben Golombs SP masters?

ps. Sims doesn't have anything that we don't have.
--Fares
I realize this but I didn't want to name Ben. I was posting this info because one of the points of this thread is to determine what exists. Sorry if these vids were previously mentioned, I didn't read all of the video lists thoroughly from other posts.

Originally posted by Halteh


Yes, the last metro show. I honestly don't have a sample, moreso I am not sure if I even beleive it. 1) Joe Shanahan is NOT going to accept bribes - especially when they run counter to billy's wish. 2) That deck the person speaks of is a home deck! how can you discretely tape the show with a homedeck? you can't! there has to be a very decent amount of people who know this (joe being one of them according to this guy) without saying anything to anyone in the band or affiliated to the band, which begs the question, how does james know? I am not entirely saying this guy is a bull-shitter, but you have to admit the story sounds a little far fetched and doesn't totally add up. I think there might be a chance he has his facts out of whack and a tape still does exist. But not under these exact conditions.

--Fares


i've heard so many different variations about what exists from that show. i've heard that the same guy had sbd. i've also heard that he had a recording that was taped with the mics from the stage. (crowd mics?). i find it very hard to believe. i've gotten to know bruce (sp/zwan foh sound), and he's on the ball with things. none of those guys would loose their jobs by giving someone a sbd patch, unless bc says so. i know shanahan would never accept a bribe. and i seem to remember a prank going around in early 2001, where there was a schoeps source on someone's bootlist.

Originally posted by Mr MacPhisto

and i seem to remember a prank going around in early 2001, where there was a schoeps source on someone's bootlist.

I beleive the prank was Jason Roth's idea, he emailed about 8 big traders at the time (me, PJ, jeroen, Fresko, fogelsong and some others) and got us all to list a crazy source for the show and just ignore all questions aboout it. It was funny, but also proved somewhat productive because it's that very reason that Imre told me about Mr. XXX; He thought maybe that's where my source came from.

for the record, I pluged mr. XXX's name in google a while back and got a fair amount of hits. He really is a reputable phish trader. He might be lying to me, but I don't see his motivation.

--Fares

ahahaha. mike sims. ohmygod. If only i could reveal what I did to him. Fares knows what i'm talking about. Let's just say Fares would have never talked to Ron if it wasn't for me. ;) I LOVE YOU FARES!

*DUDE WOULDN'T IT BE FUNNY IF HE GOT MAD AND DECIDED TO GET CABLE INTERNET*

*HOLY FUCK LOOK AT THIS (40K DOWNLOAD), THE FAGGOT GOT CABLE*

Where is mike sims nowadays? id love to meet that guy!

My friend Joe Kusnir has a story about sims that's really funny but I don't want to ruin this thread by going so far off topic.

This is great stuff men. I would personally kill for more live versions of Not Worth Asking (if any other than the one in MP exist), but my precious memories of Bodies in Perth 96 will hold me in good stead if that doesn't eventuate.

A great live version of meladori magpie is my only want (ISO DD SBD :) - because of the bird's heritage, and my fav football team - c'mon the Pies!! But I find that knowing something is out there is more enjoyable than actually having it - I mean Avalon - was it really worth the wait?

Originally posted by Coin
This is great stuff men. I would personally kill for more live versions of Not Worth Asking (if any other than the one in MP exist), but my precious memories of Bodies in Perth 96 will hold me in good stead if that doesn't eventuate.

A great live version of meladori magpie is my only want (ISO DD SBD :) - because of the bird's heritage, and my fav football team - c'mon the Pies!! But I find that knowing something is out there is more enjoyable than actually having it - I mean Avalon - was it really worth the wait?

I don't know if Avalon was worth the wait (16 years) but I think I'd kill for a DD SBD.

who cares if it was worth the wait or not... you either like it or you don't.

Originally posted by RockLobster
who cares if it was worth the wait or not... you either like it or you don't.
Word!