I'm writing to announce that I have uncirculating Pumpkins shows, mostly from the MCIS tour, that I will be making available for trade. Please be aware that almost every one is from an unknown generation analog tape, and that even some of the source info is "iffy."

For those of you who don't know Brian Muehlhaus, he is one of the biggest SP fans I've ever met online, and a good friend. He has seen over 50 Pumpkins shows, his earliest dating back to the Gish era. Brian has been collecting shows for a long time, and has devoted more of his time and energy to searching out rare shows than anyone I've ever heard of. Over the past year or two, he's been acquiring cassettes and videos from fans in the hopes to get them transferred. He sent them all to a guy to have them put on CD's, but after 8 months of waiting, gave up hope on the guy and had him send them back. He discussed the situation with me and I volunteered to transfer all his stuff. Over the past couple months I've transferred 16 shows and some short video clips.

Brian and I are happy to announce the release of these unknown-gen analog>CD transfers. They range in quality from A- to D, and all have little problems here and there due to the taper or someone who transferred it, but I've done my best to edit cuts, tape flips, etc. A detailed description of the quality, source estimation, setlist, flaws in the recording, and length of each show can be found at:

http://fenixboots.tripod.com/home/id11.html

At this point in time, Brian is far too busy to be doing any trading of any kind. He has his hands so full I can barely get an e-mail back from the guy right now, which is why I'll be handling all the trading of these shows for a while. The wave data is all still on my computer, so you can all get 1st generation CD's. Be aware that I've never used the hub, and never will, so I will not be posting any of these shows on there, but you're all welcome to email me and set up a snail mail trade. I'm Dan, and my email is at the bottom of this post.

One last thing I'd like to mention, which I sincerely hope you all consider, is that Brian is a true example of a devoted fan, who loves the music and the SP community so much that he's spent many months out of his life searching and scowering the internet for recordings that people don't have, so that he can share them with everyone. I would like to hope that our hard work and generousity in getting these shows out will inspire you to let go of that old tape you've been holding onto for the past 12 years, or to get off Netphoria for once and really see if the possible connections you have to something special will pan out. Of course we're willing to trade these recordings to anyone interested, but please, if you have something cool that you took time to hunt out, please realize that other people have done it too, and that this may be a perfect time to return the favor.

ragingday@msn.com

you have mail.

that's awesome. I've traded with brian before and he's a great guy, its awesome that he's releasing this stuff to the community.

Make sure you split the tracks properly or whatever method you used to burn the discs!

i used to be in contact with brian but i think he's changed his e.mail addess since then. can you please pass it on (pm or something) i have a couple of questions for him regarding the discography i'm helping to build.

thanks for this by the way - much appreciated

Nice

The best method for this madness since you're bulk-releasing shows may be bittorrent, rather than hubbing it. If youre interested, I can do some research on hosting bittorrent trackers and set up a 'muehlhaus tree' tracker for all of these shows with a simple php interface. let me know if this sounds good.

sharingthegroove.org

The Aeroplane Flies High

aired in late 96; A quality; 5 minutes; normalized to peak level

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Holy ass, don't normalize that shit!

WTF?

Awesome, if you need someone to transfer the VHS, I have an excellent vcr!!

Originally posted by Dead
Holy ass, don't normalize that shit!


you poor baby. they're his transfers, he can do what he wants with them.

he should be hoarding these from you hub whiners in the first place. so dont complain.

Originally posted by Verboten
you poor baby. they're his transfers, he can do what he wants with them.

he should be hoarding these from you hub whiners in the first place. so dont complain.
I don't care about the shows. I'm just commenting before he spreads them all around.

Originally posted by Verboten



you poor baby. they're his transfers, he can do what he wants with them.

he should be hoarding these from you hub whiners in the first place. so dont complain.

Haven't you been killed in a horrible accident down at the meat packing plant yet?

Originally posted by Slurpee


Haven't you been killed in a horrible accident down at the meat packing plant yet?

whats up loser? shouldnt you be out taping dashboard?

so how do us common folk get these show?

I don't know why people are talking about torrents and 'how do I get these'. The guy said right in his post that he's looking for snail mail trades.

All right, I really don't post much anymore, but I still read this place and I have dealt with both of these guys before and I commend them BOTH on what they are trying to do. I think we have come to a point on this trading board that we need to get over....I think we need to have a call to arms...

I think that we need for everyone in the community, which is rapidly shrinking, to show their cards for just a couple of minutes. We could sit here and debate the hoarder vs. sharing string again, but that is old and tired. We are at a point where most of the people reading this board are solid fans of the band and would love to have new shows and hear new music. I had the pleasure last night to go to the Metro show with some real old school collectors and fans. Brian Muehlhaus IS the biggest fan that I know in this community and if anyone deserves the award for still trying for this place, it is him. We were talking last night about certain things that we don't have, and certain leads that we have come across in our years of trading and researching and how it would be neat to have some of the old time people (Fresko, Asselin, Fogelsong, Halteh) to lay their cards and just tell us what you have found and some interesting stories. Perhaps this will lead to more leads and more shows surfacing.

Anyone who knows me knows that I have am psycho about 1988-1992 stuff and have been researching it for years now. Piniak and I went to the library probably on 5 separate occasions to look through old Chicago Readers to find new shows. You know those new dates on SPFC that showed up about 6 months ago...that was us. We are not looking for any pat on the backs, or anything, just for people to put some time into this and try new avenues or research.

This is what I propose:

Tell us what you have: I don't care how you got it, who you got it from, but what is it? What is on it? Why do you think it is rare? If you want to share it, go ahead, if you don't, hey, that's cool, just let us know what is out there.

Tell us what you have heard: Everyone here in Chicago has a story about Billy. "My mom's dog trainer lives next to him..." Tell us the story, we all love hearing this stuff (mostly).

Tell us what you want to hear: What stuff do you really want to know about? I love the Gish stuff, what is the rest of Billy's dad's home demos? I would love to know...maybe someone out there knows it. What does "The Box" look like? I talked to a guy who supposedly had seen them all before.

C'mon people, if you think this is a good idea, let me know, and I will start out the thread with what I know. If you think this is a crap idea then say, "hey, I don't think I want to participate." The big hitters in this community that is responsible for 90% of the stuff out there don't post anymore because of smart ass comments or the whole "well why don't you share it with me?" To be honest, I would be more likely to share my recordings with people if I see they have put the time in. Has Asselin put his time in? Yes. Has Fares and Fogelsong and Fresko put their time in? Yes, you can see it on their lists. Has Brian put his time in? Yep, look at what him and Dan are doing..he doesn't have to do this, he just does, because that is thr great guy he is. I will never ever forget the way his face lit up when I played Opal for him 4 years ago...that is what being a fan is about....

Wow, guess I kind of went on here...I am in the same boat as Brian, I just want to know what is out there...what do I need to focus my research on. Why bother researching Octavia Kincaid if someone has already found her, or tried. As I said, I would be more than happy to start off the thread if people are interested, but I am serious about this....

-GK

Originally posted by Richard D. James
...snip...

-GK

I love the idea of an open dialog about what is out there, even if it is never to be distributed in the community. The threads where people just talked about the contents of The Psycho vid and other rare recordings were always really interesting to read. I, unfortunately, have very little (OK, nothing) of value to contribute except gratitude to any people who are willing to share information about old recordings and things they've learned about the band's history. As for the old hoarding issue, there's no reason to begrudge someone the right to not share a recording they put their time, energy, and money into finding. Even if I never hear things like Avalon, I am really grateful that the show was transcribed so that I could read about it. There will be assholes who disagree, but that's why Netphoria has an ignore option.

I live far, far away from ground zero, so I can't be one of those guys that have the resources available to find unreleased shows and the like, but I love the knowledge. The best thing about Netphoria was the chance to read about this sort of stuff - new info on demo recordings, recording histories, etc. The chance to gather some more information about the band I love? Of course I'm keen. As the d00d above me said, I may never hear stuff like the Avalon show, but please start the thread.

BTW - this is my favourite forum on Netphoria - but so often there's nothing of any worth here. Dean Moriarty and his fanatical collecting mentality and seemingly bottomless pockets has kept the forun alive in my estimation - I think it's time for us to learn something new.

Great idea Greg. This would be very fascinating.

Originally posted by Richard D. James
..snip..

-GK

Great idea, I'm all for it. Oh, and you forgot Agnew.


by the by.. you're Dick James, bitch!

Cheers.

i'd love to get to hear some new old stories....it's one of the things that made trading interesting. sure i'd also love t get some of the "hoarded" stuff, but frankly, if the one who has the copy doesn't give it out i don't mind, it's his/her decision, and sometime it will show up. i just hope i'm still at an age where i can appreciate it then...i have nothing to contribute though, sorry

top plan. i may have a few things to contribute...

I have never been stoked in my life as I am at what my thread has become. Greg, it's great to have you back, man.

I fully plan on replying again with much more to say, but it's late.

Thanks to everyone who has emailed me so far.

Gotta sleep...

I think I agree with almost every post in this thread. It would be great to just have more knowledge of what is out there, even if we never get to hear the stuff. As alot of you said, we may never get to hear the Avalon gig, but I remember reading the transcription of it (which I can no longer find) and that was great just to read about that stuff. Hearing or Seeing new stuff written about is always great..and good to see people pulling together on this one.

I just wanted to let everyone know that I just updated the release list. Added the 1 minute ABC In Concert Profile where they reviewed the Batman and Robin Soundtrack. It's only one minute but has clips of Billy and Joel on the set of TEITBITE video shoot talking about making the song. I also fixed the date on the Wrigley Field TMOTTBG performance, that happened last year. Also got some better Gen. estimations on some of the videos.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who's emailed me again, but to also make it known that because of the number of requests I've got, that trades will have to occur on a 1st come, 1st served basis. I actually didn't get as many inquiries as I thought I would, but still enough to be busy for the next few weeks. I will not turn anyone down though, so feel free to email me and get on the "waiting list" for copies of these shows. Also, for those of you who have looked at the rest of my site, be aware that I haven't added anything (aside from this new list) to it since August, and I've gotten probably at least 60 shows since then, as well as a lot of other band stuff. For an accurate version of my collection, with much more complete source, time and quality info, just ask and I'll email you the text version.

I'd should also mention that I just finished transferring these shows a week or so ago, and haven't gotten a chance to listen to all of them all the way through yet. While transferring, I was able edit by fading all the dropouts and cuts I could see, but there still may be cuts or inconsistencies in the taping that might sound abrupt that I haven't picked up on yet. If anyone finds something that doesn't sound right, let me know when and where it occurs and I'll tell you if it's on the master, and I can even go back and re-edit that part of the show for us.

Lastly, just for you Deaddy...
I've been transferring analog tapes and videos to CD for a very long time now, and I put all the track breaks right where they should be, right before each song starts, not after a song to where there's tons of crowd noise and banter before the songs. I also normalized them to play at a volume that your stereo will be comfortable with. To me there's nothing more annoying in the entire world than trying to listen to a show in your car and having to crank the volume up to the max to just barely hear the songs. Every one of my friends is either a musician, a recording arts major, or both, and they've all assured me that normalizing a recording like this will not detract from the sound whatsoever. All it does is boost the level to a comfortable volume, and anyone who's heard any of my other transfers knows that they sound loud and clear with your stereo on 3.

Ok, not lastly, I just remembered a few things. For Starlight's information, the 5 videos I transferred to CD have also been put on DVD as well. I don't have a DVD burner, but my roommate does. He's got a new Mac, and I don't know much about using it, but we've been trying for months to download a free program for ripping DVD's, but can't find one. Do you or does anyone know of some good free software we can D/L to use to extract the DVD's to burn them. For some reason his computer didn't come with a DVD copying program.

So thanks again to one and all. I was kind of disappointed in the way this thread started, with the usual annoying bickering, shit talking, lack of interest, talk of hoarding, etc. But Greg's post made my day...or month...or year....or decade. It's been a very long time since I've seen a post of that quality and importance, and I admire everyone who's willing to contribute in a respectful manner. I assure you I will have plenty to add to his discussion, but for now, I must go.

dan, get dvd decrypter for ripping and burning dvds... however, as i type this, i realize that it's a MAC... i have no idea if that prog will work or not on his pc, but it's the best i think. :)

dan... i just took a look over the list and all those shows look great! thanks for offering them to everybody.

i just had a few things i thought i'd mention about some of those video transfers...

1996-09-11.. i have a dvd of this made from a 1st gen video, but the audio is ac3, so it is not suited for audio trading. yours says "VID(Hi8)>CDR." so, is this from the master?

1996-09-14.. there is a circulating dvd made from the hi8 master... but again, lossy audio. however, i have a 1st gen VHS of this show that i can transfer using my M1, if it would be worth it... i see that your transfer is taken from an unknown but low gen... so maybe it wouldn't make too much of a difference, who knows.

1996-10-25.. i have a dvd made from a 1st gen video, with PCM audio. i would be willing to rip the audio and split up tracks if it would be worth the upgrade (one gen lower).

that's it i guess. :)

oh, and also, i have a DAT MASTER!!!! of last years take me out to the ball game, so..... suck on that! ;)

Originally posted by Dan Elsen

Lastly, just for you Deaddy...

Okay, I was just talking about splitting tracks on the frame/sector boundaries and stuff. Also about normalizing, that's ok. I was thinking of a different kind of normalization when I said whatever I said. The kind that maxes the whole thing out to the same volume like on a FM broadcast or the Zwan album. Nevermind.

I knew there was a reason I hung around here. Like some of the others I have nothing to contribute, but I love to read the stories. Thanks everyone, hopefully this won't die out.

Hey guys,
I don't know if anyone here remembers me, but I was always on the fringe of all the exciting stuff going on without being a part of it myself :-) I've got some good stories about the good old days, but first off, about finding old shows...

I haven't been around for awhile, but AFAIK the WNUR show is still unavailable. If you go here: <a href="http://airplay.wnur.org/performances/">link</a> and search for "Smashing Pumpkins", they list an undated Pumpkins performance in their archives which I assume is <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=6">this show</a>. You can request it, and I've done so many times, but I've yet to see it get replayed. Has anyone tried to contact WNUR before about getting a copy of this show, or at least them replaying it?

I actually mentioned this to the aforementioned Brian Muehlhaus about it, but we haven't exchanged emails recently so I don't know if anything came of it.

ok someone start an uber thread for all this stuff. i've got a couple of little bits and bobs i'm working on and i'm sure other people have stuff to say. just open a thread asking for info and stories. i'd do it myself but i'd rather it was someone from the old school :)

Fellow Pumpkin Fans

First, to anyone who has sent me an email and not received a response. I am sorry for that. I try to respond to any email that involves SP because SP is my escape from everything. In the past 4 months, I have been so busy that I really haven't had much to time listen to many SP/Zwan recordings, let alone search for old unsurfaced recordings or even make trades. I am a high school teacher, and school will be out in 6 weeks and I will once again have some free time to email, trade, search, communicate, etc. I am like Greg in the fact that I rarely post, but check the board frequently hoping to see some posts that are interesting to me. As someone mentioned, I enjoy the posts like what the tracklisting for the "25 Songs O'Pumkins" video is. Just ask Greg, of all the things I have a desire for, this is my number one want.

Anyway, enough of that. As Dan mentioned, I dug up a handful of old analog tapes and a few videos that I had not really seen on many people's list. I gave them to one person, but he was unable to transfer the stuff because of job and families situations, so then Dan volunteered to take on the daunting task. Although I have not heard any of the transfers yet, Dan has informed me about his thoughts on how they turned out, and I am really excited to hear some of these shows. So, first, I want to thank Dan for all his hard work. I always enjoy emailing people who share the same enthusiasm that I share with the band, and Dan was definitely excited about this project and hearing new shows. So, again, thanks Dan.

Now, as Greg mentioned, we went to the Billy Corgan solo show and before the show we were talking about what we want to hear and how we wished we knew what people had. When Greg and I start talking SP/Zwan and throwing out dates, and great versions of this song and that song, and our favorite songs, etc, we are true geeks. Just ask my fiancee, she will tell you what I nut I am when it comes to SP/Zwan, and she is right. I can still remember hearing my brother playing the Gish album in 1991 in his room and Bury Me being on. I asked him who the band was and I can still remember laughing at the band name. But, when that Bury Me solo came on at 3.28, I was flat out blown away and I was hooked for life. I still remember that day like it was yesterday. Okay, back to the point. Greg and I were talking about all the old school SP fans that have done so much for the trading community (we all know who they were and attempt to name them would just result in me leaving someone out). We started discussing what some of those people have that nobody knows about. We starting discussing that Towers of Rabble studio post, and the possibility of it being real and how many attacked the validity of the post. Why can't it be real? You know there is a studio version of it because Billy himself said he was going to put it on TAFH, but changed it at the last minute.

Greg and I talk about how there seem to be very few people making an effort to locate and seek out new things. Many of the old school fans have gotten older, have families, work professional jobs, and have moved out of the trading scene. I have no doubt they still love SP, but priorities have changed. I still attempt to look for stuff, but I don't have much time either. Geg and I talk about how if we were still in college, we would be searching for stuff like crazy because you have so much free time in college. It just doesn't seem like many are doing that though.

I am just a fan who loves to hear new things and wants to get everything. When I started going to SP shows a long time ago, half of them I wasn't even supposed to be at because I was underage, but I usually found a way in. I went for the music, and the music only. My mistake was that I never even thought about taping the shows, and I have been to at least 7 shows that have no recording known.

I also have spent time searching for things that people don't have. I can't say I have brought many things to the community (in fact, I haven't brought much in terms of what the old schoolers have done). But, if people would like to know (I have posted this list before), here is what I have found, but can't obtain a copy. Now, this list doesn't ******* stuff like we know exists like the Avalon.

-1988 Pulse Cable Access Video Session (complete sessions with the retakes of the songs that were played)

-1990/11/09 - Marquette University; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1991/10/22 - Atomic Records; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1991/10/22 - Central Park Ballroom; Milwaukee, WI (complete video)

-1992/03/27 - Marquette University; Milwaukee, WI, US_ (Pearl Jam encore w/ JC) (complete video)

-1992/06/09 - Unicorn; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1992/06/10 - Unicorn; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1992/06/11 - Club de Wash; Madison, WI, (complete video)

-1993/07/23 - Unicorn; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1993/07/28 - Metro; Chicago, IL, (complete video)

-1993/08/07 - Phoenix Center; Pontiac, MI, (complete video)

-1993/08/13 - Metro; Chicago, IL, (complete video)

-1993/10/04 - R&R Station; Madison, WI, (complete video)

-1993/10/15 - Oz; Seattle, WA, (complete video)

-1993/10/16 - Oz; Seattle, WA, (complete video)

-1993/12/09 - Aragon Ballroom; Chicago, IL, (complete video)

-1993/12/10 - Aragon Ballroom; Chicago, IL, (complete video)

-1994/03/25 - Palmer Auditorium; Davenport, IA, (complete video)

-1994/04/26 - Eagles Ballroom; Milwaukee, WI, (complete video)

-1994/06/18 - Double Door; Chicago, IL, (Star Children) (complete video)

-1994/07/09 - Fiddler's Green Amphitheater; Englewood, CO, (complete video)

-1994/07/11 - Sandstone Amphitheater; Bonner Springs, KS, (complete video)

-1994/07/12 - Harriet Island; St. Paul, MN, (complete video)

-1994/07/14 - Marcus Amphitheater; Milwaukee, WI, complete video)

-1994/07/15 - World Music Theater; Tinley Park, IL, complete video)

-1995/10/23 - Riviera Theater; Chicago, IL, (w/ Cheap Trick) complete video)

-copies of the master tapes of at least 15 days of Adore Rehearsals in the studio for the 1998 tour.

-two analog cassettes that Billy personally gave this person in 1993 with random studio and live stuff on. The person claims the songs ******* the time period of 88-93. Now, I have asked if it is Mashed Potatoes stuff, but the person doesn't know since the person doesn't know what Mashed Potatoes is.

Now, those are things I have found, but will never be able to get. Some of those shows we have, some we don't.

Anyone, I am up for doing what Greg said.

By the way, if anyone has tried emailing and didn't get a response, try again. My email hasn't changed.

Excuse all the babble, I could go on for hours.

Brian
bmuehlha@mccsc.edu

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
Now, those are things I have found, but will never be able to get.
wow, very interesting stuff. i must ask though, why are you so sure that you will never be able to obtain these shows? did you track all of these recordings right down to who actually owns a copy? or do you mean you just know that they are in existence?

i must say that it is exciting to know of recordings from the early days that aren't out there. a complete audience video of gish songs, before the album was released sounds incredible. that basically was an era of the band that has been left almost undefined (the year 1990) with only 4 known recordings from the whole year, one of which is impossible for the everyday fan to get their hands on.

anyway, i'll throw in a few thoughts/facts now on digging up new recordings.

not that i can say that i've tracked down any unknown pumpkins recordings myself (although i do have 1 zwan show that no one else has - not that anyone would care about that :)), but i do know of a few uncirculated upgrades, as well as one of the leetest video hookups i've ever seen. so i may as well spill the beans.

1994 was a HUGE year for the pumpkins when it came to touring, and playing in bigger venus. it just doesn't seem right the amount of shows listed on spfc with no known recording info. shows that big with a band so popular at the time, you know that so many more of the shows must have been taped.

a recent find, which probably went unnoticed by most, was the addition of <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=373">this</a> show/recording info. pretty neat for a nice SS mic > DAT source to be uncovered 10 years after the actual show.

as well, check out the source info for the starplex amphitheatre shows from that year. <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=370">08/20</a> lists an 80 minute DAT tape recorded with a D7. if anybody wants to update their bootlists, the complete rig used was ECM-155 > D7 (i know this because i recently obtained a 1st gen DDC from the taper). <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=371">08/21</a> also lists an 80 minute DAT tape, but on most people's lists, AUD > (ana) > CDR is the lineage cited with unknown equipment. this recording was actually done with the following rig: SS DSM-6 > D7. same taper as the night before, but with borrowed mics. when this show was originally circulated, the taper was unable to make DDC's or even do DAT > CDR transfers, so he made a few tapes for his friends and that's how the show was spread. maybe not as exciting as a brand new show to listen to, but who wouldn't rather listen to a digitally transferred DAT > CDR copy? i know i would (hopefully one day ;)).

another upgrade i know about is from <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=333">04/27</a>. i know the NAK-7000 > DTR-80P source is widely circulated, but there is another, superior source out there. i'm not sure if the other recording listed (CSB > D7) is correct (i've only seen it on <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/moon/eternyty/">one</a> list), but i know that a source exists from the following rig: SS mic > D7, which is far superior to the NAK source. the guy who taped the starplex shows has a DDC-1 of that tape. i'm not sure if maybe the CSB source listed on spfc is actually the SS source, or if both are actually out there...

lastly, i will speak of the SP video hunt that i've been on for the last little bit.

when i began to seriously trade SP, i never really bothered to get into the video scene. i had my share of vids that i had purchased at record shows from bootleg vendors, or through local record stores (all of which were crappy high gen tapes that i forked out mad cash for ;)), but getting into the scene after it was already dying down was pointless, becuase tracking down 1st gen tapes was basically impossible... and i wasn't interested in watching crappy vid-10 (in LP mode) MCIS shows that were almost inaudible and had lines going accross the screen.

with the wake of dvd burners, my interest was swayed in the direction of video trading, however, becuase of the lack of quality loss. not that dvd transfers are lossless, but because dvds won't lose quality if they are copied correctly, so getting high quality vids was finally feasible. so, i made an ISO post on sharing the groove for pumpkins videos, or just people with pumpkins DVDs i didn't have, because the dvd trading scene is almost non-existent in the pumpkins community (at least compared to the audio scene). i was pleasantly surprised when i was responded to within minutes by someone who had a Hi8 clone of <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=251">10/21/93</a> that his friend had taped back in the day. i was quickly sent a miniDV clone of his tape, and a DVD is currently in the works (if my lazy ass friend wasn't so lazy... it would be done by now :p). i was really excited about this find, because the video looks SOOO good.

since this discovery, the same guy who had that show sent me an e-mail listing all of the pumpkins videos that he had access to (he was given access to some crazy trader's collection from back in the day, who loved SP among other bands and had very impressive collections). needless to say, this was probably the most exciting find i'd made, and these videos are going to be put into production soon.

that's about all the exciting news from my end... hopefully it was interesting to some.

-tobin

PS. the zwan show i was speaking of is <a href="http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=1007">04/25/03</a>. no recording info listed, but i obtained a datM > cdr0 of this source: OKM-ll (Rock) > A3 > M1. i came accross this taper's list when i was searching for pumpkins dvds.... :) it sounds great though.

Originally posted by Richard D. James


We could sit here and debate the hoarder vs. sharing string again, but that is old and tired. We are at a point where most of the people reading this board are solid fans of the band and would love to have new shows and hear new music.

The big hitters in this community that is responsible for 90% of the stuff out there don't post anymore because of smart ass comments or the whole "well why don't you share it with me?" To be honest, I would be more likely to share my recordings with people if I see they have put the time in. Has Asselin put his time in? Yes. Has Fares and Fogelsong and Fresko put their time in? Yes, you can see it on their lists. Has Brian put his time in? Yep, look at what him and Dan are doing..he doesn't have to do this, he just does, because that is thr great guy he is.



usually, only someone who has hoarded shows would think that the 'hoarder vs sharing' debate is old and tired.

as for the rest of it. it's really not true. if it were, then myself, along with at least 10+ other traders i personally know(and know of) would have all of these little hoarded shows that apparently are hoarded due to "people not trying hard enough to find new material". or "people being unappreciative & greedy". i know people who have spent years trying to hunt down old SP material but have just never been fortunate enough to have a lead go through for them. theres an old school trader i know whos name was dennis, who had leads on the taper of at least a dozen RHCP shows back when SP opened, who had the full SP, PJ, and RHCP sets from every show he taped. obviously, that didnt go through. i would have snagged them asap and traded them out. keeping them to myself in hopes that someone else would have traded me something rare in the process would have been pointless, or at least now i realise this, since thats not the reason people keep things to themselves anymore.
i'll mention brian since he seems so relevant in all of this. what he has done speaks for itself. obviously just as obsessed a fan as i am, who just hasnt been fortunate enough to get ahold of anything new. same with dan, whom i lent out 3 of these newer shows out to for transfering. as for myself, i've probably spent way too much of my time trying to dig up old SP gems. you can ******* this in the other thread if youd like. but heres some of the things i found, or had leads to in the past.

02.08.92 Riverside - Newcastle, UK {DAT master}
02.10.92 Boardwalk - Manchester, UK {DAT master}
02.04.96 Palace - Los Angeles {DAT}
09.08.96 Civic Center - Providence, RI {ANA master}
10.23.96 Hilton Coliseum - Ames, IA (had leads on two different DAT recordings straight from the tapers)
11.17.96 Miami Arena - Miami {MD}
07.08.97 Spodek - Katowice, PL {ANA}
08.07.00 Saskatchewan Place - Saskatoon, CA {DAT master}

so, we can sit here and say that we wouldnt share any of these recordings with people since they dont deserve them, due to not putting in enough time or effort, but we know it's not true. only results get you anything thats hoarded, regardless of how much time you put in. either that, or the obvious(and most popular way) to get ahold of anything worn out like avalon is being a close personal, and trusted friend of someone who has it, even if you've done nothing for the community. or you can hoard and say it's because people are unappreciative. well, believe it or not, the vast majority of traders rarely even visit message boards like these, let alone posting on them. if you sense a lack of appreciation for the mere reason that "my thread announcing the release of this and so-so" doesnt get enough "thank you!!!" replies, then you obviously need to widen your horizon of what trading communities really are. people dont think of how many people will get the show they released in years to come, and how many people who might not even be traders will get ahold of the show...and will enjoy and appreciate it, even if they dont realise who let it out in the first place.
so hey, if you want to hoard, then hoard. enjoy it. just dont give reasons for it that are obviously not true. and dont accuse anyone who asks "why arent you sharing that" to be a whiner right off the bat, since thats taking the easy way out.

anyways, if anyone here wants to get some of these new shows asap, then just drop me a PM in another week or two since i'm the first person getting these from dan. w00t~

Originally posted by Verboten

do you still want any of these videos from me?

1996-09-14 AUD > vid1
1998-08-01 Two-cam > vidL
2000-06-30 PRO > vid2
2000-07-04 PRO > vid3

Originally posted by zerozwan

do you still want any of these videos from me?

1996-09-14 AUD > vid1
1998-08-01 Two-cam > vidL
2000-06-30 PRO > vid2
2000-07-04 PRO > vid3

ah christ, sorry i never got back to you on those. 9.14.96 and 8.1.98 i already have.
and arent there 2 different pro versions of 7.4.00 out? i heard that one was incomplete.

6.30.00 however, looks juicy. go ahead and PM me if youd still like to do a little deal. thanx!

Originally posted by Brian Muehlhaus
-1994/06/18 - Double Door; Chicago, IL, (Star Children) (complete video)


This exists?!? I love this show.

Brian, I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to talking SP trading/bootlegs/shows etc... I'm sure I'd be pretty rusty when it comes to my knowledge, since I haven't done much trading or talking SP in the last two years. As far as recordings that I know exist, and let me say that it's not nearly as exciting as Brian's list, here's what I've come across but could not obtain:


(from a guy who used to post on Tapers-Filmers a few years back. He flaunted that fact that he had these shows.)
10AUG92 328 Performance Hall-Nashville,TN 90m 7.5 (AMD1) AIWA
ANA(M)>DAT-GREAT SETLIST/SHOW-CRAZY!
23OCT93 UCSB Robertson Gym-Santa Barbara,CA 100m 8.0 (DDC1) D7/SS
09DEC93 Aragon Ballroom-Chicago,IL 90m 7.0 (DDC1) D3/SS
25MAR94 Palmer Auditorium-Davenport,IA 100m 8.0 (DDC2) D7/SS
27MAR94 Memorial Hall-Kansas City,MO 100m 8.0 (DDC2) D7/SS
01APR94 South Park Meadows-Austin,TX 90m 6.5 (DDC1) D7/CSB
23MAY94 Draf-en-Renbaan/Pinkpop Festival
Landgraaf,Netherlands 52m 7.0 (DDC2) no info yet
21AUG94 Starplex Amphitheater-Dallas,TX 77m 8.0 (DDC2) D7/SS
25AUG95 Reading Festival-Reading,England 90m 7.5 (DDC2) D7/ecm909

(from the taper, whose name escapes me. He lives(lived) in Champaign, and I e-mailed him for several months, but he was pretty bad at communicating on a regular basis. I got his name from Chris Sakamoto)
3/23/93 Redbird Arena, Bloomington AM
6/27/96 Market Square Arena, Indianapolis, IN DM
10/25/96 Assembly Hall, Champaign DM
6/23/97 Double Door, Chicago DM

(from some guy I found by searching the DAT-Heads archives. He responded once, and then stopped all communication. His e-mail address was bunk a few months later.)
11/01/91 Boston University/Walter Brown Arena 45 Aud D-3 9.1 1 Sony PC-62
04/19/94 Fitchburg, MA Wallace Civic Center 80 Aud D-6 9.3 M Sony ECM-144
09/08/96 Providence, RI Civic Center 125 Aud DAT 9.3 M Sony ECM-144
11/06/96 Worcester, MA Centrum 130 Aud DAT 9.4 M Pansonic Custom's

Also, I found a guy who taped several shows in Milwaukee from 90-95ish, but he's 40-something, has a family, etc... Pretty bad at the communication thing.

Is Paulo Vieria still hoarding that good copy of the full 6/29/93 FM? I still have a 1 min clip of Kooks he sent me that sounds amazing.

Thanks for this trip down memory lane. I always will be a hardcore pumpkins fan, even though I never listen to them anymore.

I *still* have in my posession the MICROCASSETTE masters to 07/07/98 that I got from the taper a couple years back.

Originally posted by bowmaan
I *still* have in my posession the MICROCASSETTE masters to 07/07/98 that I got from the taper a couple years back.
;) 1337

Originally posted by Andrew Fogelsong


Is Paulo Vieria still hoarding that good copy of the full 6/29/93 FM? I still have a 1 min clip of Kooks he sent me that sounds amazing.



Is Paulo even still around? That guy was great, we traded so often and I didn't even mind that I had to traipse all the way to the real post office and have the postal workers look at me funny because I was mailing another bomb-shaped package to Portugal.

If threads like this keep going, maybe I won't disappear for another 2 years :-)

Chris Hill

Originally posted by bowmaan
I *still* have in my posession the MICROCASSETTE masters to 07/07/98 that I got from the taper a couple years back.

Word on the street is those sound like they were recorded in a toilet.

Originally posted by Sehki


Word on the street is those sound like they were recorded in a toilet.

i was just going to say that :D

Actually -- you are right. IIRC, it actually says that on the SPFC and if I'm not mistaken, this is either from a quote to someone either via e-mail or on AMSP *years* back. Still, you can make out the songs. I've heard worse.

b

Actually-- who's keeping up with the set/recording history these days on the SPFC? I have a few amendments I need to make.

Originally posted by bowmaan
Actually-- who's keeping up with the set/recording history these days on the SPFC? I have a few amendments I need to make.
Fares I believe.

Originally posted by bowmaan
Actually -- you are right. IIRC, it actually says that on the SPFC and if I'm not mistaken, this is either from a quote to someone either via e-mail or on AMSP *years* back. Still, you can make out the songs. I've heard worse.

b

haha yeah I was jokingly referencing SPFC. :)

Originally posted by Sehki

i love calvin and hobbes. you rule.

Originally posted by Sehki
Word on the street is those sound like they were recorded in a toilet.

I still think that the best description for a shitty recording was one on Henry Bent's trading page from way back in the day. He was giving descriptions for the ratings he gave recordings. 1/10 was something like "recorded from inside a car circling the venue, with the windows rolled up, and the stereo blaring"

Originally posted by ChrisHill
Is Paulo even still around? That guy was great, we traded so often and I didn't even mind that I had to traipse all the way to the real post office and have the postal workers look at me funny because I was mailing another bomb-shaped package to Portugal.

If threads like this keep going, maybe I won't disappear for another 2 years :-)

Chris Hill

A few years ago, after Paulo had dropped off the face of the earth, I remember Fares telling me he'd tried to set up a trade with Paulo for some uncirculated or better sourced shows. Paulo wanted something like Gish era SBDs, and he knew we had them, or some bullshit like that.

Last time i spoke with paulo vieira, was one year ago and he wanted MP but he never send back his part of the trade. He stopped replying after he got it!!!

Originally posted by Andrew Fogelsong


A few years ago, after Paulo had dropped off the face of the earth, I remember Fares telling me he'd tried to set up a trade with Paulo for some uncirculated or better sourced shows. Paulo wanted something like Gish era SBDs, and he knew we had them, or some bullshit like that.