View Full Version : greatest american modern songwriter


eyesbomb
10-23-2002, 08:04 AM
Joseph Arthur, he's incredible and pure



you guys know shit about him, or just stick with the Beck useless shit?
god I hope some of you heard about him, he's real talent in dreamed whispers

otherwise I'll give you suggestions of stuff to download
so, ever heard?

ravenguy2000
10-23-2002, 08:30 AM
what do you mean by modern?

strange_one
10-23-2002, 08:31 AM
<font color=33FFFF> Elliott Smith, maybe</font>

StillBecomingApart
10-23-2002, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by ravenguy2000
what do you mean by modern?

He means a songwriter that writes songs about swans.

eyesbomb
10-23-2002, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by ravenguy2000
what do you mean by modern?

I just mean a songwriter from the last decade or so, and maybe even not a 'classic' songwriter but somethng different, perhaps more innovative

and his style surely is something actually different



What I can say is that there's no doubt about Joseph Arthur being a briliant musician, lyricist, singer and all
and as I said, it may sound pretentious but I believe is far greater than all this old guys like Beck, Elliott Smith, who play a fine, entertaining music
but not an incredible one
Joseph Arthur is incredible, his songs are pure beauty





if you wanna ask things, I can try to answer
It's worth a listen

Suicide Machine
10-23-2002, 12:29 PM
Joseph Arthur is pretty good. I've only heard Come to Where I'm From, and I can only listen to the first 4 tracks. My vote goes to Conor Oberst from Bright Eyes or Kevin Tihista. I like Conor's free verse lyrics, and KT is just catchy as hell.

eyesbomb
10-23-2002, 01:16 PM
touché: Conor


I love him, he's indeed a goddamn great boy
the only bad thing is that the latest Bright Eyes' "Lifted" sucks, and left us all who can tell the truth really disappointed




on the other hand, Joseph Arthur never failed a record
Cpme to Where I'm From is GREAT but I think the first album, Big City Secrets, is even better
and I started loving the last one, Redemption's Son as well
good that someone at least knows him
:)

Suicide Machine
10-23-2002, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by eyesbomb
touché: Conor


I love him, he's indeed a goddamn great boy
the only bad thing is that the latest Bright Eyes' "Lifted" sucks, and left us all who can tell the truth really disappointed.

on the other hand, Joseph Arthur never failed a record
Cpme to Where I'm From is GREAT but I think the first album, Big City Secrets, is even better
and I started loving the last one, Redemption's Son as well
good that someone at least knows him
:)

I'll be seeing Joseph with Kevin Tihista on the 2nd, and i'll probably get soundboard access if he's playing solo, which i think he is, and i'll hook you up with that. Hopefully he'll play Ashes Everywhere. I'll try to d/l some tracks from the other records, and i'll let you know what i think.

As far as Bright Eyes, Lifted is good, but not nearly as intense as Fevers. Nothing he's writing now seems to be that good, especially considering it was somewhat of a themed album. Only tracks I think might be better than one on Fevers is From a Balance Beam and Let's Not Shit Ourselves. I do like the There is no beginning Ep, all 3 bsides are great.

I completely forgot about Mark Linkous. All 3 Sparklehorse records are fantastic, with lots a different directions.

I Ate My Hamster
10-23-2002, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by eyesbomb
otherwise I'll give you suggestions of stuff to download
so, ever heard?

No one fucking cares what you think.

lucky_13
10-23-2002, 03:27 PM
this whole thread confuses and annoys me.

rufus wainwright.
grant lee phillips.
jon brion.

weird how they are all connected.

Suicide Machine
10-23-2002, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by lucky_13
this whole thread confuses and annoys me.

rufus wainwright.

weird how they are all connected.

Isn't Rufus Canadian?

frail_and_bedazzled
10-23-2002, 03:29 PM
i never liked joseph arthur. my friend used to play him all the time

theonemofo
10-23-2002, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by lucky_13
this whole thread confuses and annoys me.


seriously, and who calls conor oberst the greatest, let alone a great american songwriter? please.

theonemofo
10-23-2002, 04:14 PM
i'd just like to emphasise that he's a complete bitch.

lucky_13
10-23-2002, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Suicide Machine


Isn't Rufus Canadian?
canadian shmadian. canada is part of north america.

eyesbomb
10-23-2002, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Suicide Machine


I'll be seeing Joseph with Kevin Tihista on the 2nd, and i'll probably get soundboard access if he's playing solo, which i think he is, and i'll hook you up with that. Hopefully he'll play Ashes Everywhere. I'll try to d/l some tracks from the other records, and i'll let you know what i think.

man, that would be true gold
If you could get me a copy of that I would be as grateful as I can get

what can I do for you?


Originally posted by Suicide Machine
As far as Bright Eyes, Lifted is good, but not nearly as intense as Fevers. Nothing he's writing now seems to be that good, especially considering it was somewhat of a themed album. Only tracks I think might be better than one on Fevers is From a Balance Beam and Let's Not Shit Ourselves. I do like the There is no beginning Ep, all 3 bsides are great..

honestly, I would really like to think that Lifted is good, since I love Conor Oberst as you might guess, but from the beginning it just sounded poor to me
And that's what I think it is, a mediocre record
From A Balance Beam: when this single was out I thought "wow, this will be the worst song on Lifted, it isn't even a glimpse of what any song on Fevers is, strange that he choosed this as 1st single"
The awful was that this is probably the best track off that record, and as much as I try to convince myself that The Big Picture is a great track .. I just can't
as before: it's mediocre
Same goes for almost all the other tracks, except To Love and to Be Loved wich is decent


I don't know, it seems like a dead record
get what I mean?
and it's a BE's lover speaking, not a critic or some shit like that



tell me: which track on Lifted does even remotely what Calendar, Arienette, Spindle or Movement did?
sadly, the answer is: none
I'll still be seeing Conor live here in Europe (up in Sweden) next november, I know he rocks live
but Lifted.. no


Originally posted by Suicide Machine


I'll be seeing Joseph

I'll try to d/l some tracks from the other records, and i'll let you know what i think.



great, try

- Mercedes
- Daddy's on Prozac
- Birthday Card
- Haunted Eyes
- Bottle of You
- Marina
- Redemption's Son
- Termite Song
- Permission
- Favourite Girl






and fuck, I could go on.









thankyou.

Oliver Twisted
10-23-2002, 04:45 PM
Conor Oberst,Will Oldham,Hawksely Workman

Joseph Arthur is great,too,but I'm not really into his music.



"Lifted" is not that bad,David.It's not as good as "Fevers & Mirrors" and not as alive as "Letting Off The Happiness",but if you always look to the first two BE's albums you will never be able to see what's good in "Lifted".

I mean: I would have never found something good in "Machina" if I kept "Siamese Dream" and "Mellon Collie" in front of me.

The difference between "Lifted" and "Machina" is that we were expecting a MASTERPIECE by Conor,and nothing more than a good rock album by Billy when he released "Machina".


Anyway: Will Oldham is the greatest,and I really love "Last Night We Were The Delicious Wolves" by Hawksley Workman.

Hawksley was also one of the greatest live act I've ever seen,too.
He's canadian=north american.


O.

eyesbomb
10-23-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Oliver Twisted
Joseph Arthur is great,too,but I'm not really into his music.

wait until you'll see him live, friend
:)


Originally posted by Oliver Twisted

"Lifted" is not that bad,David.It's not as good as "Fevers & Mirrors" and not as alive as "Letting Off The Happiness",but if you always look to the first two BE's albums you will never be able to see what's good in "Lifted".

I mean: I would have never found something good in "Machina" if I kept "Siamese Dream" and "Mellon Collie" in front of me.


I get the point, we discussed the issue before, but I sincerely think that Lifted is overall pretty bad, not just comparing it to Fevers everytime: overall

Originally posted by Oliver Twisted
Anyway: Will Oldham is the greatest,and I really love "Last Night We Were The Delicious Wolves" by Hawksley Workman.

nah, Joseph
:p

Originally posted by Oliver Twisted

O.

D.

lucky_13
10-23-2002, 05:04 PM
this thread is getting creepier.

i add:
joe pernice
allen clapp
lou barlow (conor should bow to him cuz he basically rips him off anyway)

i just want to bring some good songwriters to the thread.

Irridescent Fairysex
10-23-2002, 05:31 PM
Guillermo Jamónviejo

spa ced
10-23-2002, 05:40 PM
I'm into abstract lyrics, like Blake Schwarzenback's work on Jets To Brazil's Orange Rhyming Dictionary.
As far as visual writers go, Matt Talbott conjures some very vivid visuals.

Kill The Poor
10-23-2002, 05:43 PM
I think Lifted was easily his best. Guess I'm alone. The lyrics to "Lover I Don't Have To Love" are trite though.

Mayfuck
10-23-2002, 06:18 PM
What's the big deal with Will Oldham? I had I See A Darkness on my computer for a while, but never got into it because it was so horribly boring and plodding. The songs didn't go anywhere and they were incredibly simplistic.

lucky_13
10-23-2002, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Graveflower
What the fuck is with some of you? Songwriting does not equate to just lyric writing. Holy shit.
explain it to us ye of much knowledge.

strange_one
10-23-2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Amazing Disgrace
Gavin Rossdale
<font color=33FFFF> whoo!</font>

Red Wine Cage
10-23-2002, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Amazing Disgrace
Gavin Rossdale
no. avril lavigne, fool.

sk8er boi makes me cry, so much emotion.

lucky_13
10-23-2002, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by killtheyouth


well i'll help. Songwriting has just as much to do with the writers use of structure (ie verse chorus verse etc), the melodies they write, and what sort of approach they take to the song (ie acoustic vs. distorted rocker or whatever), among other things, as it does with the authors lyric writing ability. Brian Wilson didn't even write the lyrics on Pet Sounds and yet few will deny that that album is an amazing collection of well-written/composed songs.
ok duh. i knew this. but lyrics are 80 percent of song writing.

Mayfuck
10-23-2002, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by lucky_13

ok duh. i knew this. but lyrics are 80 percent of song writing.

That's a stupid approach to listening to music. I would say at most 50%. I don't care if you can write like T.S. Eliot if your songs are gonna sound like shit.

lucky_13
10-23-2002, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Mayfuck


That's a stupid approach to listening to music. I would say at most 50%. I don't care if you can write like T.S. Eliot if your songs are gonna sound like shit.
but wait. lyrics are 80% of songwriting. not of the entire song. the music is extremely important.

lucky_13
10-23-2002, 11:01 PM
ok whatever nevermind. lyrics are crazy important to me. yeah melody is important but i'm not a musician so i don't think about shit like that. i'm a dummy. ignore me

scouse_dave
10-23-2002, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by lucky_13

ok duh. i knew this. but lyrics are 80 percent of song writing. what?!

that's garbage

so the other 20% is melody, harmonisation, instrumentation, mood, arrangement, feeling...etc, the list goes on

scouse_dave
10-23-2002, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by killtheyouth
do you write songs? it's about 8 quadrillion times harder to come up with a decent melody than it is to find some lyrics that fit it. dead right...

good lyrics can enhance a song...they can't make one

lucky_13
10-23-2002, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by scouse_dave
what?!

that's garbage

so the other 20% is melody, harmonisation, instrumentation, mood, arrangement, feeling...etc, the list goes on
dude did you read my other posts? i'm not talking about the music at all! so instrumentation is not part of songwriting for me! ok!
chill out!

Garp
10-24-2002, 12:14 AM
Jeff Tweedy

scouse_dave
10-24-2002, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by lucky_13

dude did you read my other posts? i'm not talking about the music at all! so instrumentation is not part of songwriting for me! ok!
chill out! yes, i read all your posts thankyouverymuch

in the truest sense, songwriting doesn't ******* instrumentation, you're right...

i only *******d it cos it's seems to be a factor to a lot of people here

i genuinely believe a lot of the songs on MCIS, songwriting-wise, are very poor...they're saved my good instrumentation/arrangements

Beautiful could be a 80s mccartney song

scouse_dave
10-24-2002, 12:29 AM
wtf?

Mayfuck
10-24-2002, 12:32 AM
*******

Mayfuck
10-24-2002, 12:33 AM
Hahahahahahahahahaha

<marquee direction=left>:rofl:</font><marquee direction=right>:rofl:</font>
<marquee direction=up>:rofl:</font>
<marquee direction=down>:rofl:</font>

Mason R Butler
10-24-2002, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Mayfuck
Hahahahahahahahahaha

<marquee direction=left>http://www.gatheringofthevibes.com/Band2/art/wavy.jpg </font><marquee direction=right>http://www.gatheringofthevibes.com/Band2/art/wavy.jpg </font>
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<marquee direction=down>http://www.gatheringofthevibes.com/Band2/art/wavy.jpg </font>

eyesbomb
10-24-2002, 07:17 AM
one of the most beautiful and moving songs in the world



Birthday Card


She wrote her name with a heart
Inside his birthday card
Right beside the PS which read
Please don't think I'm devious
It's not that obvious
In fact it's more of a mess
You're what I find most beautiful
But you're also what makes me the ugliest
So i'm taking away all of the love
I ever gave to you
I think you should've known
It was only ever on a loan
And i'm running away
I found myself a hiding place
I've been uncomfortable looking in your eyes
They always see right through my face

And if you find your eyes
You hunt me down
'Cause if I find my eyes
I'll hunt you down
And if you find your voice
You hunt me down
'Cause if I find my voice
I'll hunt you down

He wrote his name with her heart
On the back of a postcard
Right beside the PS which read
Please don't think this is malicious
But ever since you left me I am a mess
You made me happiest
And now I'm lonely cause there was only you
Touching your skin was like a showel through the ground
I had no idea what I found
A crown
You crown me king
Made me lion in your ring
Training me with your see-through treasure
And bribing me with your guilty pleasure
You teach me how most things have no measure







thanks, welcome

ravenguy2000
10-24-2002, 08:19 AM
Would Paul Simon count?

This thread is like an itch I can't scratch.

Lie
10-24-2002, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by ravenguy2000
This thread is like an itch I can't scratch.

That's what Netphoria is like to me.

Salena Child
10-24-2002, 09:00 AM
where's bolly?

neophyte
10-24-2002, 07:58 PM
Whatever whatever whatever

I think that David Berman is a good one. So is Elliott Smith.

I personally love Conor Oberst, Jason Molina, and Will Oldham, but I don't know that I would put them on top of those other two.

And of course, I'm not drawing from the entire canon of "great songwriters," because I'm not a musical know-it-all. I'm just going on what I can personally vouch for

~neophyte~

GlassDreams
10-24-2002, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by eyesbomb

"Lifted" sucks, and left us all who can tell the truth really disappointed



All you who can tell the truth, eh? Lifted is far above and beyond anything else Conor has ever done. There are some great songs on Fevers, but overall I just don't think it compares. Lifted is Conor growing up a little. I for one, like it. You can't expect the man to be writing lyrics like he did on Letting Off The Happiness/Fevers and Mirrors forever.

Oh, and I'm with Gav on this one. Elliott Smith.

Red Wine Cage
10-24-2002, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Amazing Disgrace


How could I forget Avril? I'm actually ashamed of myself now. I mean, Gavin is a lyrical genius, but Avril has the lyrics and the kickin' music to back it up!
her band is so talented, way better than that one group...uh, uh...led zeppelin! that's right, they're like old and stuff. avril is so cool and hip....eh, i'm done.i tried.

ChristHimself!
10-25-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by eyesbomb


wait until you'll see him live, friend
:)

You said that about Alec Empire.

eyesbomb
10-25-2002, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by GlassDreams



All you who can tell the truth, eh? Lifted is far above and beyond anything else Conor has ever done. There are some great songs on Fevers, but overall I just don't think it compares

be sincere to yourself and then come back and tell me the reaò thing.
you can't be sincere now

Fevers is what I call a masterpiece, Lifted is what I call something dead and tired

eyesbomb
10-25-2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by ShotFullOfDiamonds


You said that about Alec Empire.


of course, Alec was THE live act


almost as good as when I saw Bjork, or Radiohead, or Primal Scream
somehow even better, surely stronger, rawer

eyesbomb
10-25-2002, 02:54 PM
boring

neophyte
10-25-2002, 03:38 PM
Yo, AmazingD. Of course I do.

~neophyte~

Affect
10-25-2002, 03:47 PM
That dude in INXS.

neophyte
10-25-2002, 08:55 PM
Going to graduate school in N.C. now (at Appalachian State University...masters in appalachian studies) and have found the heart I can't bring myself to break.

~neophyte~

patrick
10-27-2002, 03:07 AM
fuck all of you

tom waits

end of story.

eyesbomb
10-27-2002, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by failure
fuck all of you

tom waits

end of story.

I said MODERN, bastard


otherwise Bob Dylan, or David Bowie, of course

ravenguy2000
10-27-2002, 08:08 AM
wtf? why isn't tom waits modern?

Lie
10-27-2002, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by ravenguy2000
wtf? why isn't tom waits modern?

Because he's a lot better than Elliott Smith and <i>always</i> will be.

armos
10-27-2002, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by eyesbomb
David Bowie

You said AMERICAN, bastard.

eyesbomb
10-27-2002, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by armos


You said AMERICAN, bastard.

oh, one point for you, but I'm afraid of americans
:eek:




by the way I only meant 'modern' not to report the same old names..
and yes, Tom Waits is unique and I love him too

Samsa
10-27-2002, 03:16 PM
the greatest american modern songwriter is probably some black person