View Full Version : itt, we love machina


bonsor
08-23-2003, 05:46 PM
i bought it again. i sold my first copy on ebay. i bought it because i reread the machina era interview in guitar world that basically revealed what there was to be appreciated about the album. Plus, listening to it on headphones kind of makes me forget about a lot of problems with the production.

I of the Mourning makes me weep. so does Age of Innocense. I feel kind of shitty for dismissing the album as a whole because of a bunch of shitty things i always used to be fixed on when i was listening to music.

Glare Seethe
08-23-2003, 06:02 PM
Machina's great. I even like the production - to some extent. I like the, uh, ethereal feeling it sometimes has (a good example is Raindrops + Sunshowers, I think), but they went too far with it and it ended up being too overbearing. But overall I like it, even if it's not as immediately likeable as Mellon Collie's production.

The album has a lot of great songs, too. Really, too often people are hung up about the shitty concept and subsequent mystery that they forget about the actual music.

And you gotta love the artwork. It's beautiful.

pale blue eyes
08-23-2003, 06:11 PM
I like it a lot more than when it first came out. Admittedly, I did sort of dismiss it because of the whole odd mystery thing but there are some great songs on there.

Toby
08-23-2003, 06:28 PM
I've listened to it alot more lately then I probably did when it first came out.
<3 AOI

bonsor
08-23-2003, 06:30 PM
also, do all the song on this album, apart from maybe teg and hmm, sound like they could have been released in the 80s?

Toby
08-23-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by ******
also, do all the song on this album, apart from maybe teg and hmm, sound like they could have been released in the 80s? I get that feeling from Wound

Smoothie
08-23-2003, 06:39 PM
I think that fans of SP/Zwan (yes, I'm grouping them together) run about one album behind the band(s). It seems like I remember that when Adore came out, people talked about how it was okay, but it sure wasn't as good as Mellon Collie. Two years later, Adore was some of the band's best work -- too bad they had to follow it up with MACHINA. Now, everyone has spent some time with MSOTS, and MACHINA is looking better.

The moral of the story -- when the Djali Zwan album comes out, I think that a lot more people will learn to like the sound of clipping.

-Nick

(The views presented above are not necessarily those of Nick Chandler; they are just the humble observations of a poor young man.)

Netphorian Gadabout
08-23-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Smoothie
I think that fans of SP/Zwan (yes, I'm grouping them together) run about one album behind the band(s). It seems like I remember that when Adore came out, people talked about how it was okay, but it sure wasn't as good as Mellon Collie. Two years later, Adore was some of the band's best work -- too bad they had to follow it up with MACHINA. Now, everyone has spent some time with MSOTS, and MACHINA is looking better.

The moral of the story -- when the Djali Zwan album comes out, I think that a lot more people will learn to like the sound of clipping.

Good post.

wangcomputers
08-23-2003, 07:27 PM
welcome to the flock, dude.

D.
08-23-2003, 07:42 PM
i have always liked machina.

except BSBT, CTOM, and HMM, that is.

D.
08-23-2003, 07:43 PM
i guess those songs aren't bad, just those versions.

except crying tree. that song will always be bad.

Mariner
08-23-2003, 08:43 PM
Machina is pretty good, some of that production is amazing. If only they'd put Real Love and Speed Kills on the album instead of Sacred + Profane and Mercury Tree...

...and not done the silly rant thing in the middle of G+tGC...

...and used a different arrangement of BSBT, making it the big epic of the album, not G+tGC...

...and used different arrangements of Raindrops, WEL, and Imploding Voice, in which the songs are shorter and waver/alternate between a very simple, acoustic sound and the full blown 'Machina' sound, or make a building progression from 'simple/acoustic' to '35 electric layers/Machina'...

...and done this with the riff of HMM:

measure one (in 4/4) - riff as it appears on the album
measure two - riff from the crappy industrial remix
measure three - same as one
measure four - riff from jackboot...

...and made HMM rawer and more energetic in general...

...and used two drum tracks during the chorus fills and post-rant fills of TEG...

...and *******d that awesome climax from the live performances in the studio IOTM...

...man, sometimes I just can't stop. Sorry, all.

/hardass

Caine Walker
08-23-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Mariner


/hardass

wangcomputers
08-23-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Mariner
...and not done the silly rant thing in the middle of G+tGC...


i agree with this.

"speaking to me or through me"

shaddap-a-your face.

Injektilo
08-23-2003, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Smoothie
I think that fans of SP/Zwan (yes, I'm grouping them together) run about one album behind the band(s). It seems like I remember that when Adore came out, people talked about how it was okay, but it sure wasn't as good as Mellon Collie. Two years later, Adore was some of the band's best work -- too bad they had to follow it up with MACHINA. Now, everyone has spent some time with MSOTS, and MACHINA is looking better.

The moral of the story -- when the Djali Zwan album comes out, I think that a lot more people will learn to like the sound of clipping.

-Nick

(The views presented above are not necessarily those of Nick Chandler; they are just the humble observations of a poor young man.)


yeah, i've noticed that too. I'm willing to bet that when MCIS came out, alot of ppl were saying that "its good, but its no Siamese Dream". And being a fan in the adore era, I definatly noticed how then people complained about it, but it sorta took a while till people were willing to accept it "into the pumpkins family of albums" if you will.

eraserhead
08-23-2003, 10:01 PM
i enjoy listening to machina. i have always that this time should have been the last song. consider:

...we've held so long to fall apart
as the curtain falls
we bid you all goodnight...

wouldn't that be a perfect ending?

Toby
08-23-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by eraserhead
i enjoy listening to machina. i have always that this time should have been the last song. consider:

...we've held so long to fall apart
as the curtain falls
we bid you all goodnight...

wouldn't that be a perfect ending? I think AOI ends it much better.

eraserhead
08-23-2003, 10:07 PM
hmm

AOI is a good song (love the middle eight) but TT still seems to be the better ending for me. oh well its just my opinion!

dishpan
08-24-2003, 12:44 AM
i too love machina and am of the opinion that if you ignore the whole concept\mystery stuff and just enjoy the songs themselves, youll really appreciate how quality they are.

jack_kerouac03
08-24-2003, 03:17 AM
i remember hearing the studio version of glass and the ghost children for the first time and being completely blown away . . . the song still does that today.

I like Machina, but i think it would have been better if they did a huge tour first and then recorded the record. (yes, i know that doesn't make sense to do a huge tour to try out songs)

I think the Machina songs got better when the band really knew them, maybe around may of the 2000 tour - like blue skies bring tears, that uses all of the versions and went fast, slow, fast.

heavy metal machine sounded ten times better by the UC Center show, also.

Crono
08-24-2003, 04:25 AM
I was wearing a Machina shirt today, and someone commented on how it's their worst album. I hung my head and said yes without commenting on the good songs because he sucks at liking music.

Hughzims
08-24-2003, 09:43 AM
Real Love sounds like its being run over with a car! Good song but I just cant listen to it.
How many copies of Machina were sold? Was it like 500, 000 or sumfin tiny like that?

Injektilo
08-24-2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Hughzims
Real Love sounds like its being run over with a car! Good song but I just cant listen to it.
How many copies of Machina were sold? Was it like 500, 000 or sumfin tiny like that?


i heard 430000. Which isn't "sumfin" tiny at all. just compared to MCIS it is.

Porcelina Ruby
08-24-2003, 01:07 PM
430 000 is very very thinny for a big band like sp
c'mon greatest hits probably sold better(went gold)
machina is by far their least album, and I think msots looks pretty good after machina, still msots looks pretty bad compared to the rest...

dishpan
08-24-2003, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Porcelina Ruby
machina is by far their least album, and I think msots looks pretty good after machina, still msots looks pretty bad compared to the rest...

:noway:

Glare Seethe
08-24-2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Hughzims
Real Love sounds like its being run over with a car! Good song but I just cant listen to it.


I actually consider Real Love one of my favorite SP songs - possibly in the top ten... but I agree that the production is too much. The idea was good - goes back to what I said in my first post in this thread about the 'ethereal' feel some of the songs have, but they just went way way too far with it. Still, the song itself is beautiful, especially the last minute or so with the wonderful build-up.

Eulogy
08-24-2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by ******
i bought it again. i sold my first copy on ebay. i bought it because i reread the machina era interview in guitar world that basically revealed what there was to be appreciated about the album. Plus, listening to it on headphones kind of makes me forget about a lot of problems with the production.

I of the Mourning makes me weep. so does Age of Innocense. I feel kind of shitty for dismissing the album as a whole because of a bunch of shitty things i always used to be fixed on when i was listening to music.

*hug*

I've loved Machina ever since I first listenen to it.

I like the production. And the songs are fantastic. No other album gets as much of an emotional reaction from me as Machina does. In fact, it's the only album I can think of that regularly gets any sort of emotional response out of me at all.

bonsor
08-24-2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by Graveflower
7.5

The production is probably the best aspect of the album. Everything has such a warm, enveloping sound to it. The problem is the songs, which never have the dynamics of previous albums. Stuff like Heavy Metal Machine, Blue Skies Bring Tears, and the second part of Glass etc. just outright plod and it really drags the album down. Eh. ever song excet the ones you mentioned are drenched with dynamic contrast. or should i say, drenche diwht potential for dynamic contrast. The middle eight in age of innocense is such a breath of relief after over an hour of noise. there's no space. sometimes, it's like listening to mogwai and it just caves my head in with noise, and not in a good way.

mirrar
08-24-2003, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Injektilo



i heard 430000. Which isn't "sumfin" tiny at all. just compared to MCIS it is. is that all?? holy shit, i had no idea it was that low. wow, shitty.

Cheezboy3000
08-27-2003, 12:57 AM
hmm....i think I recall hearing that machina did go gold. i think i read it on billboard too.....but what do i know.

Dead
08-27-2003, 03:19 AM
Can someone describe what the middle eight is in Age of Innocence. I have no idea what that term means. :confused:

Machina kicks ass and totally rocks. Its rad! :rockon:

Dead
08-27-2003, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by jack_kerouac03
I like Machina, but i think it would have been better if they did a huge tour first and then recorded the record.
Yeah there are a bunch of little things I really like with the live versions compared to the album. The main thing is the ending section to I of the Mourning that was added around Mayish I guess..

Some things I didn't like though, such as the later version of SIYL post-storytellers that was all mellowy and lost all the feeling and cool guitar parts of the original.

I think you can say the same thing about songs on the other albums because they keep evolving and sometimes they develop some really cool things.

Nobody will agree here but I like the Machina era strummy To Sheila better than the album version, its just more interesting.

I thought of another example, the outro on Disarm that they would play live, the one that's on Earphoria, I really like that.

bonsor
08-27-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Dead
Can someone describe what the middle eight is in Age of Innocence. I have no idea what that term means. :confused:

Machina kicks ass and totally rocks. Its rad! :rockon: the middle eight is another word for bridge. most of the time, it's not even eight bars.

the middle eight in aoi is "and with the rites of spring.....too fucked to swear that i was there".

i love that part. that guitar that comes n the middle of it....so beautifully done.

Dead
08-27-2003, 02:04 PM
Oh yeah I really love that part too! I'm gonna play it right now in fact. Woo!