View Full Version : glass episodes 1,2,3


babyletswhine
08-15-2003, 08:23 PM
http://www.rhapsodydigital.com/

ZephZero33
08-15-2003, 09:11 PM
They are pretty cool but corny.

Caine Walker
08-15-2003, 09:21 PM
i'm sorry, those were goofy as fuck.

Rider
08-15-2003, 09:32 PM
my god it's fucking horrible, now we know why Billy stoped taling about the whole thing. This awefull crap actually makes me glad the pumpkins broke up.

Mayfuck
08-15-2003, 09:43 PM
Aw, c'mon, it wasn't bad. The inner teeny bopper in me enjoyed it, but I have no idea what the purpose of the whole thing is and Billy as a rock messiah...*sigh*...Poor Billy.

chsllama
08-15-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by Rider
my god it's fucking horrible, now we know why Billy stoped taling about the whole thing. This awefull crap actually makes me glad the pumpkins broke up.

can you spell?

or put forth a positive opinion about anything?

Rider
08-15-2003, 11:26 PM
how long till you rip them off the site and sell the rare glass and the ghost children vcd on ebay. go fuck your ugly ass wife.

Caine Walker
08-15-2003, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by Mayfuck
Aw, c'mon, it wasn't bad. The inner teeny bopper in me enjoyed it, but I have no idea what the purpose of the whole thing is and Billy as a rock messiah...*sigh*...Poor Billy.

uh, did you listen to the dialogue within the episodes? it sounded like a 10th grader wrote most of it.

Netphorian Gadabout
08-15-2003, 11:52 PM
That was like 1-part low-grade Pumpkins music, 1-part Matrix ripoff, 1-part poorly translated anime, and 7-parts latent homosexuality.

I cannot believe Michael Stipe would lend his image to a project as stupid as that.

chsllama
08-16-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Rider
how long till you rip them off the site and sell the rare glass and the ghost children vcd on ebay. go fuck your ugly ass wife.


someone's bitter and lonely....


FAG

Mayfuck
08-16-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by Caine Walker


uh, did you listen to the dialogue within the episodes? it sounded like a 10th grader wrote most of it.

Originally posted by Mayfuck

The inner teeny bopper in me enjoyed it.

Injektilo
08-16-2003, 01:44 AM
i just watched the first episode, and.... what the hell? should i bother with the next two?

spfreak
08-16-2003, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by Injektilo
i just watched the first episode, and.... what the hell? should i bother with the next two?

TheJoker
08-16-2003, 03:41 AM
Is John ****** Zero?

babyletswhine
08-16-2003, 03:47 AM
i liked the mood. The storyline is kinda annoying, because is haphazardly tells some things. But most new animated series have this problem. Have any of you guys noticed that slow dawn sounds better, EQ-wise, sure i know its streaming.

Azael
08-16-2003, 04:25 AM
it was craptacular

MstrGhost
08-16-2003, 05:13 AM
it's down now

edit: up again

oh well, it's even ... can't wait for the rest.
...oh wait, there's no and there will be no rest of it.

MstrGhost
08-16-2003, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by Pumpkins23836

I cannot believe Michael Stipe would lend his image to a project as stupid as that.

:rofl:

ChoobieWoobie
08-16-2003, 06:41 AM
There's a cool sounding into to epesode 2...I don't recognize the song though.

Caine Walker
08-16-2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Mayfuck


The inner teeny bopper in me enjoyed it.


::shrugs:: fair enough.

Slurpee
08-16-2003, 11:32 AM
If Billy got electrocuted, that would explain a lot.

Slurpee
08-16-2003, 11:35 AM
LOL

"The council does not tolerate failure.... twice."

Sorry for double posting, but I mean, c'mon.

Knisnaw
08-16-2003, 11:37 AM
direct links:

http://www.rhapsodydigital.com/demo/video/ep001.wmv

http://www.rhapsodydigital.com/demo/video/ep002.wmv

http://www.rhapsodydigital.com/demo/video/ep003.wmv

episodes 2 and 3 are also available in .mov but the sound is crap:

http://www.rhapsodydigital.com/demo/video/ep002.mov

http://www.rhapsodydigital.com/demo/video/ep003.mov

wangcomputers
08-16-2003, 12:07 PM
hm, i still don't really like fact that the subtext seems to be about corgan vs his fans and the record industry..
seem a bit self-indulgent and pretentious. But apart from that it's not too bad.

How many episodes are there meant to be?
I like the cel shaded back<hm>grounds.. but it's a shame the character animation isn't that great.

I'd like to be able to get ahold of the soundtrack though.. I like some of the remixes. Especially that glass' theme (?) one that used to be the opening to the offical site.

Electro
08-16-2003, 12:57 PM
really the whole story cymbolism is so obvious why not just do the documentary of billy's fights with Virgin? and it was a little melodramatic to have that company basicly owning the mindless hordes, nevermind, The Hives, The Vines, and The Strokes all have carriers so Virgin does own the minds of directionless hordes. aLl BoW tO g1455!

Eulogy
08-16-2003, 01:18 PM
I let episode 1 download while I was in the shower. I got 95% of it. And. what the fuck. :erm

I like the In My Body though. A lot.

YoungWriter
08-16-2003, 03:41 PM
Does anybody know all of the songs in the shows? I know some are supposed to be new, some unreleased, and some remixed from Machina I and II. So which ones from the albums and known material are in?

MstrGhost
08-16-2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by YoungWriter
Does anybody know all of the songs in the shows? I know some are supposed to be new, some unreleased, and some remixed from Machina I and II. So which ones from the albums and known material are in?

Already released, I can only see if there is a god (m2), le deux machina (m2) and Heavy Metal Machine (Version I) from the faeomm 60' tape. In uncompressed format, and from those old sites, "tigers showcase gatmog remix (2 min)" (the one that opened the o-site for some time) was released too, I belive it's the only leaked remix. Those in my body and wound seem new to me, as the other tunes don't seem to be sp related.

Boycott Graceland
08-16-2003, 04:03 PM
question: why exactly does he throw the bottle of red wine at the poster of himself at the very beginning?

and why does the big executive guy randomly write "zero" in pencil on his desk?

IT DOESN'T FREAKIN MAKE SENSE.

Netphorian Gadabout
08-16-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Boycott Graceland
question: why exactly does he throw the bottle of red wine at the poster of himself at the very beginning? IT DOESN'T FREAKIN MAKE SENSE.

BECUZ THE BOTTLE IS GLASS AND HE IS SHATTERIONG IT~!

Boycott Graceland
08-16-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Pumpkins23836


BECUZ THE BOTTLE IS GLASS AND HE IS SHATTERIONG IT~!
LOLOLOLOLLLLOLLOLOLOLO

FATTERING SHAST

YoungWriter
08-16-2003, 04:08 PM
question: why exactly does he throw the bottle of red wine at the poster of himself at the very beginning? IT DOESN'T FREAKIN MAKE SENSE.

My best guest is you name a ship by christening it, or by smashing a bottle of wine against it, signifying his change from Zero to Glass.

Heavy Metal Machine was ruined, IMO

That definately wasn't worth the wait...maybe it'll get better, but I agree with those being a big metaphor about Virgin.

tomthum81
08-16-2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by Pumpkins23836


BECUZ THE BOTTLE IS GLASS AND HE IS SHATTERIONG IT~!

HAHAHAHA
:rofl:

mydogrocks
08-16-2003, 06:16 PM
What is Howard Stern doing as "Zero"

Toby
08-16-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Pumpkins23836


BECUZ THE BOTTLE IS GLASS AND HE IS SHATTERIONG IT~! :rofl:

Nothing/everything
08-16-2003, 07:11 PM
page2

TheJoker
08-16-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by mydogrocks
What is Howard Stern doing as "Zero"

That's not Howard Stern, that's ******.

MstrGhost
08-16-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by YoungWriter


Heavy Metal Machine was ruined, IMO


Imo, hmm version 1 is the best there is and it's not a new remix or so, it came on the faeomm 60' tape as I've mentioned before.

aspecialkid
08-16-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by TheJoker


That's not Howard Stern, that's ******.

its the future,its ****** and howard sterns love child.:erm

Cecil
08-16-2003, 11:13 PM
Babyletswhine, how did you come across this?

Reyngel
08-17-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by mydogrocks
What is Howard Stern doing as "Zero"


lol, I was thinking the same thing.

I hesitate to watch the other two, cause the first one was one of the gayest things I've seen in years. And wtf was up with that cockhead-looking tower thing? The camera showed those little moving/dancing satellite panel things for like a whole minute, lol.

tootsie
08-17-2003, 03:08 AM
god, how self serving and embarassing.

im glad i didnt jpin the gatmog family.

Mayfuck
08-17-2003, 03:37 AM
So I'm the only one who liked it, lol.

Electro
08-17-2003, 10:40 AM
i kinda like it, it was interesting

MonteLDS
08-17-2003, 11:37 AM
the music didn't seem to go well in the 2nd & 3rd eps.

I felt like the songs were forced in, except for Soul Power.

But in my body was awesome.

In-Valid
08-17-2003, 12:38 PM
If a green orb was involved & some gratuitous sex scenes were added it could fit in as one of the stories to the movie 'Heavy Metal'.

On a purely slobbering fandom level it was interesting & I would watch all the episodes (if there are more) but someone other than a Smashing Pumpkins fan would really get nothing out of it other than fodder for making fun of their SP Fan friends. This is truly geek material here.

The animation is dated (I like the look for personal nostalgia reasons), the dialogue is terrible & the whole premise of the movie is very limited in it's appeal.

I do like the not-so-subtle touch of making the assistance to the Fat Greedy boss this young 'hipster' wanker because that's exactly what record companies do when they try to make contact with new bands & such.

I too would like to know how babyletswhine found this (z-board ?)

babyletswhine
08-17-2003, 01:44 PM
I did indeed find it on the z-board. It was in the main chat forum for a few minutes. The thread seems to be removed now. Why it was put online now (it was put on in 2003) i do not know.

Ugly
08-17-2003, 07:12 PM
It seems as if the people who wrote it had a big list of anime sci-fi cliches.

<I>flying cars - check
dystopian future - check
mysterious sage - check
robot drivers - double check
faceless corporation - check
bad guy that looks like the Kingpin - check
lots of spidery-looking futuristic designs - check
mind-numbingly bad montages to make things seem profound - check that and a bag of chips</I>

When it first started and the remix of in my body kicked in I was ready to go along for the ride. I was getting an "Animatrix" vibe from it at first. A nice different anime style take on a story that's been established. I was enjoying it for about 3 minutes total. And everything stealily declined from there.

The musical cues went from bad to worse (I laughed out loud when glass/b0lly/zero was at the door and "If There is a God" kicked in). The animation for soul power in episode 3 is frankly horrific. Having Billy's vocals comming out of some badly animated version of B0lly made me want to avert my eyes.

Continually mentioning <B>"the council"</B> just adds to the general sense of lameness. Its meant to sound profound and add another sub-plot. Frankly when you're throwing out subplot after subplot after subplot <B>(DNA CLONE SAMPLES! GLASS' MADNESS! UNCARING FANS! THE COUNCIL! THE VOICE OF GOD!)</B> it means that the writters are reaching. It would have just become a mumbled mess.

The character of the soothsayer was terrible. See, SHE'S BLIND BUT SHE CAN SEE THE FUTURE!!! HOW AMAZING IS THAT ITS REALLY PROFOUND AND CREEPY! AND SHE PULLED UP THE DEATH CARD! AND THEN CUT IT WITH HER FINGERNAIL! A creepy tarot card reader! I've never seen that before! Oh wait, yes I have. In absoultely everything. My bad.

I enjoyed two parts - one when zero said "I want to burn everything down" and then the robot says in the really happy voice "I don't think the Tyrell corportation would appreciate that!" (I know the Tyrell corp is from Blade Runner but this ripped so much off Blade Runner it might as well have been called that)

When Slow Dawn was used at the end of Ep. III - that worked pretty well. Its a solid tune either way, though, and it was nice with the girl taking the hit of acid.

the voice acting was generally bad across the board. The guy who plays glass sounds like he was recorded whispering at the bottom of a volcano and its mixed terribly. The woman that did the voice for his agent really didn't mix well with the character design. She sounded like a deli owner from Jersey who looked like a tattoo fetishist.

The animation would seem profound and futuristic if it was made in 1986.

I hope if this is ever commerically released that James and D'Arcy sue Billy for likeness rights.

The whole thing is just a re-run of yesterday's visions of the future. Nothing original.

You want some good sci-fi anime: go and rent Akira. I think I'm gonna watch The Animatrix to wash the taste of that out of my mouth.

Just bad. Bad. Bad stuff.

Netphorian Gadabout
08-17-2003, 07:40 PM
Am I the only one who nearly died laughing during Episode 3 at the start of the concert when he screams: "ZERO IS GONE!!!@"!

:rofl:

MstrGhost
08-17-2003, 08:45 PM
I laughed out loud when glass/b0lly/zero was at the door and "If There is a God" kicked in

Me and a friend did exactly the same while watching it live but even in different parts of the globe :D

:rolleyes: ...that part was lame, way lame

edit: I'd still like to have the 1st episode in *.mov though

skippy
08-17-2003, 09:55 PM
I kinda liked it. :o Keep in mind that i don't really watch any animated stuff so it was all new to me. I wouldn't pay money to see it though. The dialogue needs work.

bonsor
08-17-2003, 10:31 PM
the dialogue, voice acting and plot, if there was one, were absolutely atrocious.

i enjoyed it on a purely fanboy level. otherwise, it was pure fucking crap.

plus, why did james turn into bolly.

Ugly
08-18-2003, 01:46 AM
does anyone think the GATMOG story could ever work in a visual medium?

It really comes off as heavy handed when its not wrapped in guitar riffs and incomprehensible lyrics.

I'm a sci-fi buff. I can dig sci-fi anime once in awhile. Seeing the Pumpkins and sci-fi and anime crushed together in some unholy combination makes my brain want to melt down. It just doesn't work.

Maybe the story would work if they played it straight and pulled out all the sci-fi trappings and didn't use freakish character designs.

Unregistered
08-18-2003, 11:24 AM
What we really need is a Billy the Egomaniac animation series instead. Now that I'd pay for.

wangcomputers
08-18-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by ******

plus, why did james turn into bolly.

duh, don't you know anything about the machina mystery? :D

Rider
08-18-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by MstrGhost


Me and a friend did exactly the same while watching it live but even in different parts of the globe :D

:rolleyes: ...that part was lame, way lame

edit: I'd still like to have the 1st episode in *.mov though

Yep I was in the hub at the time and I said in chat "my god I can never listen to "if there is a god again".

Anyone else notice that the really annoying woman is named Ruby. Like anyone would wirte a song about her.

Oh and the Marylino Manson reference in chapter 3.

jczeroman
08-18-2003, 01:57 PM
so is this still ongoing? I thought it was scrapped?

Dead
08-18-2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Ugly
It seems as if the people who wrote it had a big list of anime sci-fi cliches.
I liked this review.

eel_86
08-18-2003, 07:59 PM
As you can see I'm the newbie here, so what exactly is this machina mystery people always talk about, and why does it suck so much?

DeviousJ
08-18-2003, 08:00 PM
I only got as far as the woman saying something about 'I of the Radio' before I closed the window. Did Marlon write this crap?

MercuryChild
08-18-2003, 10:47 PM
someone should unban marlon. I really want to hear what he has to say about this.

Caine Walker
08-19-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by MercuryChild
someone should unban marlon. I really want to hear what he has to say about this.

tootsie
08-19-2003, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by DeviousJ
I only got as far as the woman saying something about 'I of the Radio' before I closed the window. Did Marlon write this crap?

no. tigershorty from the oboard did. division 13 and all.

Sapphire
08-19-2003, 02:46 AM
I may not be that solid on the whole history of machina/glass/zero (I enjoyed the Machina sound - it was decent), but these episodes took whatever credability that era had, and took one big shit on it.

I don't know what was the worst thing to happen in that video. Whether it was the script-writer dressing up the exec. at Virgin to be some kind of Batman goon, or if it was the complete mismanagement of the music. In my Body at the beginning was cool enough, but after that, everything else just seemed to be tacked on. The worst being me trying to listen to the rendition of Heavy Metal Machine, while Zero's car made a noise that quite literally could shatter glass. The only thing that was a Zero in that film were the production values.

And what the fuck was that fortune card bullshit? Could someone tell me just what the fuck that was? I'll tell you what that fucking was! That was a fucking mockery of what little Machina probably did stand for (at one time or another - before Billy dropped the whole "I'm God" thing, and adopted the whole "Mid-life-crisis rainbow" thing).

And in the end, the very worst thing to happen to it all, was that it was still nothing more than a huge ego masterbate-a-thon for Billy. As Episode III was wrapping up, it was a complete joke how the youth were upset that Billy... err... Zero had changed, but he was still "cool." Give me a fucking break.

This is how the youth really depicted Machina:

Take all the people who liked Mellon Collie/Siamese Dream, and take away 95% of them. Now you have the million or so people who like Machina. Everyone else thinks old uncle fester has gone plain off his rocker, and is preaching some bullshit that interests them about as much as it entertains them (re: hardly at all).

From the remaining 20%, take 0.5%, and these are the people who could care less about the story. These are the ones that spent time trying to make some know how of it. The majority of whom discovered that it was complete and utter bullshit (Marlon Brando can kiss my ass), and even if it wasn't, it was presented in such a shitty manner, that it would actually be better if Billy had just said, "Yeah, it was a joke," rather than, "No, there really is a meaning behind it."

Take from this remained 5000 people or so, another 10% (500 or so people), and make them watch these episodes. Now, the remaining fans, the pure loyalists, will not, and cannot be able to overlook what complete and utter shit these stories were.

So, that's the mathematical equation of how Billy Corgan was able to take a fanbase of 9 million, and turn it into around 3. No, not 3 million, just 3.

And then, to top it off, take those that were willing to overlook this whole fiasco and still show interest in the music, and release Mary Star of the Sea.

You see, Billy taught me something with Zwan. It's that when you finally go into the recording studio, and you have a repetoire of 150 songs, you take anthems such as "Baby, let's rock!" and "Endless Summer" and put them alongside such winners as "Desire."

Another lesson he taught me was that you can fool people into thinking that three otherwise mediocre songs are actually really great when you shove 'em into a 14 minute guitar dwindling quote unquote epic that has the listener ripping Z's before it's finished.

Yet, overall, I think the saddest thing to come from this all, is that when the Smashing Pumpkins do reunite, they're going to go against the very things they stood for in their hey-day. Billy, at the age of forty, will be screaming out anthems of teenage depression to a crowd that either needs to turn up their hearing aids to listen to the concert, or are allowed senior fare on the bus-ride to the arena.

If anything, these cartoons put an embarrassing end to an embarrassing era that concluded one of the greatest alt. rock bands of all time. May God let the Pumpkins rest in peace, Glass knows they deserve it.

Gary
08-19-2003, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by Sapphire
I may not be that solid on the whole history of machina/glass/zero (I enjoyed the Machina sound - it was decent), but these episodes took whatever credability that era had, and took one big shit on it.

I don't know what was the worst thing to happen in that video. Whether it was the script-writer dressing up the exec. at Virgin to be some kind of Batman goon, or if it was the complete mismanagement of the music. In my Body at the beginning was cool enough, but after that, everything else just seemed to be tacked on. The worst being me trying to listen to the rendition of Heavy Metal Machine, while Zero's car made a noise that quite literally could shatter glass. The only thing that was a Zero in that film were the production values.

And what the fuck was that fortune card bullshit? Could someone tell me just what the fuck that was? I'll tell you what that fucking was! That was a fucking mockery of what little Machina probably did stand for (at one time or another - before Billy dropped the whole "I'm God" thing, and adopted the whole "Mid-life-crisis rainbow" thing).

And in the end, the very worst thing to happen to it all, was that it was still nothing more than a huge ego masterbate-a-thon for Billy. As Episode III was wrapping up, it was a complete joke how the youth were upset that Billy... err... Zero had changed, but he was still "cool." Give me a fucking break.

This is how the youth really depicted Machina:

Take all the people who liked Mellon Collie/Siamese Dream, and take away 95% of them. Now you have the million or so people who like Machina. Everyone else thinks old uncle fester has gone plain off his rocker, and is preaching some bullshit that interests them about as much as it entertains them (re: hardly at all).

From the remaining 20%, take 0.5%, and these are the people who could care less about the story. These are the ones that spent time trying to make some know how of it. The majority of whom discovered that it was complete and utter bullshit (Marlon Brando can kiss my ass), and even if it wasn't, it was presented in such a shitty manner, that it would actually be better if Billy had just said, "Yeah, it was a joke," rather than, "No, there really is a meaning behind it."

Take from this remained 5000 people or so, another 10% (500 or so people), and make them watch these episodes. Now, the remaining fans, the pure loyalists, will not, and cannot be able to overlook what complete and utter shit these stories were.

So, that's the mathematical equation of how Billy Corgan was able to take a fanbase of 9 million, and turn it into around 3. No, not 3 million, just 3.

And then, to top it off, take those that were willing to overlook this whole fiasco and still show interest in the music, and release Mary Star of the Sea.

You see, Billy taught me something with Zwan. It's that when you finally go into the recording studio, and you have a repetoire of 150 songs, you take anthems such as "Baby, let's rock!" and "Endless Summer" and put them alongside such winners as "Desire."

Another lesson he taught me was that you can fool people into thinking that three otherwise mediocre songs are actually really great when you shove 'em into a 14 minute guitar dwindling quote unquote epic that has the listener ripping Z's before it's finished.

Yet, overall, I think the saddest thing to come from this all, is that when the Smashing Pumpkins do reunite, they're going to go against the very things they stood for in their hey-day. Billy, at the age of forty, will be screaming out anthems of teenage depression to a crowd that either needs to turn up their hearing aids to listen to the concert, or are allowed senior fare on the bus-ride to the arena.

If anything, these cartoons put an embarrassing end to an embarrassing era that concluded one of the greatest alt. rock bands of all time. May God let the Pumpkins rest in peace, Glass knows they deserve it.

tl;dr

Electro
08-19-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by Sapphire
I may not be that solid on the whole history of machina/glass/zero (I enjoyed the Machina sound - it was decent), but these episodes took whatever credability that era had, and took one big shit on it.

I don't know what was the worst thing to happen in that video. Whether it was the script-writer dressing up the exec. at Virgin to be some kind of Batman goon, or if it was the complete mismanagement of the music. In my Body at the beginning was cool enough, but after that, everything else just seemed to be tacked on. The worst being me trying to listen to the rendition of Heavy Metal Machine, while Zero's car made a noise that quite literally could shatter glass. The only thing that was a Zero in that film were the production values.

And what the fuck was that fortune card bullshit? Could someone tell me just what the fuck that was? I'll tell you what that fucking was! That was a fucking mockery of what little Machina probably did stand for (at one time or another - before Billy dropped the whole "I'm God" thing, and adopted the whole "Mid-life-crisis rainbow" thing).

And in the end, the very worst thing to happen to it all, was that it was still nothing more than a huge ego masterbate-a-thon for Billy. As Episode III was wrapping up, it was a complete joke how the youth were upset that Billy... err... Zero had changed, but he was still "cool." Give me a fucking break.

This is how the youth really depicted Machina:

Take all the people who liked Mellon Collie/Siamese Dream, and take away 95% of them. Now you have the million or so people who like Machina. Everyone else thinks old uncle fester has gone plain off his rocker, and is preaching some bullshit that interests them about as much as it entertains them (re: hardly at all).

From the remaining 20%, take 0.5%, and these are the people who could care less about the story. These are the ones that spent time trying to make some know how of it. The majority of whom discovered that it was complete and utter bullshit (Marlon Brando can kiss my ass), and even if it wasn't, it was presented in such a shitty manner, that it would actually be better if Billy had just said, "Yeah, it was a joke," rather than, "No, there really is a meaning behind it."

Take from this remained 5000 people or so, another 10% (500 or so people), and make them watch these episodes. Now, the remaining fans, the pure loyalists, will not, and cannot be able to overlook what complete and utter shit these stories were.

So, that's the mathematical equation of how Billy Corgan was able to take a fanbase of 9 million, and turn it into around 3. No, not 3 million, just 3.

And then, to top it off, take those that were willing to overlook this whole fiasco and still show interest in the music, and release Mary Star of the Sea.

You see, Billy taught me something with Zwan. It's that when you finally go into the recording studio, and you have a repetoire of 150 songs, you take anthems such as "Baby, let's rock!" and "Endless Summer" and put them alongside such winners as "Desire."

Another lesson he taught me was that you can fool people into thinking that three otherwise mediocre songs are actually really great when you shove 'em into a 14 minute guitar dwindling quote unquote epic that has the listener ripping Z's before it's finished.

Yet, overall, I think the saddest thing to come from this all, is that when the Smashing Pumpkins do reunite, they're going to go against the very things they stood for in their hey-day. Billy, at the age of forty, will be screaming out anthems of teenage depression to a crowd that either needs to turn up their hearing aids to listen to the concert, or are allowed senior fare on the bus-ride to the arena.

If anything, these cartoons put an embarrassing end to an embarrassing era that concluded one of the greatest alt. rock bands of all time. May God let the Pumpkins rest in peace, Glass knows they deserve it.

you can obviously take some solid, mind bending shits.

Dead
08-19-2003, 04:13 PM
I think that people who let these lame cartoons affect the way they feel about the album are MORANS. They are two separate things. The album is what it is regardless of how many mysteries and stories and cartoons are thrown out there. Machina rules dammit! :rockon:

Nuclear Jesus
08-19-2003, 07:46 PM
You brainless plebes obviously don't understand the immense metaphorical depth of things like broken mirrors and blind fortune tellers. I mean, come on now, there was a CAT, and it was BLACK! A BLACK CAT!!!! WHOA!!!!

Sapphire
08-19-2003, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Dead
I think that people who let these lame cartoons affect the way they feel about the album are MORANS. They are two separate things. The album is what it is regardless of how many mysteries and stories and cartoons are thrown out there. Machina rules dammit! :rockon:

It does rule, but when I hear many of the B-Sides of the album (Here I Am - my favourite), and what some of the songs sounded like without all the useless distortion (Blue Skies Bring Tears Ver. 2), I can't help but feel that this album could have been a whole hell of a lot more than it was.

I love all the tracks on the album right up to Heavy Metal Machine (Rocking song), and then the next two songs (forgot names at the moment - too lazy to find CD) are just pretty mediocre in my opinion. Glass and the Ghost Children would've been ten times better if they would've replaced the whole part where Billy/Glass/Whoever is talking about God's message. Track 11 is really good, as is With Every Light (One of my all time favourite Pumpkin songs), and Age of Innocence is the perfect way to end an album, but tracks 12 and 14 could have easily been replaced (and should have been) by whatever else Billy had at the time (which was a lot).

From what I've heard, Billy built the CD around the story, and thus 4 tracks that are in my opinion - undesirable - were *******d. When you take into account the amount of other material he could have put into those places, but didn't due to him feeling that he had already "told the messages" in those songs before, then you can see that the story in his mind was starting to show more importance than the crucial thing that made the CD: the music.

Sure, Machina rules, but it's a widely known fact that it could have ruled a lot more. And that isn't a theoretical statement either. That's fact. A fact that becomes painfully obvious once you've heard the B-Sides and tour songs.

Either way, if Billy would get back with the Pumpkins (seeing if he could find D'arcy again, and rip Iha away from APC), just what would he sing about?

Then again, this is Billy Corgan we're talking about here. He could make taking a dump sound majestical and poetic. It's just the way he is.

Which is also why it's a shame that he's doing what he's doing with Zwan right now. Oh well, who knows what the future holds, right?

Netphorian Gadabout
08-19-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Sapphire
Oh well, who knows what the future holds, right? That blind fortune teller probably does.

Dead
08-19-2003, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Sapphire
Sure, Machina rules, but it's a widely known fact that it could have ruled a lot more. And that isn't a theoretical statement either. That's fact. A fact that becomes painfully obvious once you've heard the B-Sides and tour songs.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but its not a FACT. Its a matter of opinion/personal preference.

I always thought that he was sort of forcing the album to fit into the mystery/story scenario since some of the songs on the cd don't seem to have a place in the story but I haven't thought very hard about that so maybe they do.

Any album could have been better, you can say that about MCIS or SD.. but I don't think the mystery crap takes anything away from the album musically. It is what it is. IT TOTALLY ROCKS DUDE!

I'm not sure if I said what I was trying to say, but you get the idea. :cool:

Sapphire
08-19-2003, 11:53 PM
The odd thing is, is that Siamese Dream had some of the best sounding B-Sides I've ever heard, but having them on the album in my opinion, would have just diminished the sound it had. Every song on Siamese Dream led beautifully into the next, and the overall feeling it created was beautiful. One of the few CD's I've ever listened to that did it that flawlessly.

And some of the Siamese Dream outtakes were (Or so I believe):

Apathy's Last Kiss
Blew Away
Siamese Dream
Wave Song

Many bands couldn't come up with songs half as good as those. Nevermind them being B-Sides for the Pumpkins...

Yet, when I listened to many of the tracks on Machina II, and some of the Machina outtakes, I could easily envision how I would make the machina CD different. Many times I've contemplated making the Machina CD myself (Burn a CD - rearrange the songs, take some out, add others).

Yet, on the other hand, I rarely ever use Siamese Dream tracks on my burn CD's. Would Hummer sound right at all, without Today coming before it? Or, would Today sound decent without Hummer right after it? How 'bout the Cherub Rock - Quiet combo? Explosive! Rocket - Disarm - Soma. You can't get that anywhere else! See what I mean? The track-listing for Siamese Dream had such an awesome feel to it, whereas with Machina, I always feel the need to rearrange it all after the first 7 tracks.

Then again, you hit the nail on the head there Dead. It's all opinion. You're right, I shouldn't have said it was fact, but to me it is. Again, all opinion, but hey, that's what we come here to share. :)



Oh, and a :rofl: goes out to Pumpkins23836's comment.

Ugly
08-20-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Pumpkins23836
That blind fortune teller probably does.

How much you wanna bet that she'd pull out a Death Card?

Dead
08-20-2003, 05:42 PM
You make a lot of good points Sapphire, but I don't think Wave Song is really that great. :D

Quiet CD
08-21-2003, 06:05 PM
I think there are more episodes, probably wont ever be released (I think I'm in epsisode 4 or 5), I liked the episodes visually, but the storyline was just underdeveloped and so was the dialogue...

Junebug
08-22-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by tootsie


no. tigershorty from the oboard did. division 13 and all.
well this explains just about everything. what the crap. that was one of the....i don't know. that was just strange. I don't even see it as pumpkins/billy/machina related though, seeing as how tigershorty/whomever etc. seemed to have just run with it and put in their own ideas. whatever.

Liquid-J
08-22-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Quiet CD
I think there are more episodes, probably wont ever be released (I think I'm in epsisode 4 or 5), I liked the episodes visually, but the storyline was just underdeveloped and so was the dialogue...

what do you mean dude? in it like how?

r u june?:eek:

Dead
08-22-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by Junebug
seeing as how tigershorty/whomever etc. seemed to have just run with it and put in their own ideas.
What do you mean, its all the same stuff Billy has been spouting since Machina came out. Maybe they added some of the crap but it basically follows 'the machina mystery' thing.

tootsie
08-23-2003, 02:29 AM
quiet = jesus.

Sapphire
08-23-2003, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Dead
You make a lot of good points Sapphire, but I don't think Wave Song is really that great. :D

I just love the riff to it, and the opening lines as well. :)

Waves over water
My gaze washes over
...

It's James Iha, so... I'm surprised I like it this much. ;)

Nah, James Iha is great. Must've crushed the poor man that hardly any of his songs ever got put onto the albums. I rarely hear his voice at all either. Then again, Billy probably decided that if James and D'arcy were going to be in his band, they were going to get little or no say about anything after their whole fucking around during the making of Siamese Dream, and not really willing to help him produce the album.

Or so I've heard. Who knows... I could be wrong.

MstrGhost
08-26-2003, 08:53 PM
hey, the ep002.mov crashes quicktime player at 0:42s :o

Netphorian Gadabout
08-26-2003, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by MstrGhost
hey, the ep002.mov crashes quicktime player at 0:42s :o That's almost certainly for the best.

ZWANPHONY
08-27-2003, 05:24 PM
i just got done watching it and here's what i have to say.

keep the book/fable thing going.

ONLY do the anime project IF and ONLY IF (IFF) Billy does the voice for glass/zero, the soundtrack will be released, and if the plot gets straight to business.

i liked the shattering glass part best...
the imploding voice remix was awesome.
there were some other clips in there i didn't recognize of just guitars and drums which rocked...

one of the parts sounded like the lead intro in Dross with the guitar slide over and over again.

all and all, i'd watch them all and buy it if it came out, but don't expect to get any non-sp fans to watch/buy it.

so yeah, it's not that bad, but it's not that good...

bonsor
08-27-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by ZWANPHONY
ONLY do the anime project IF and ONLY IF ... the soundtrack will be released.lol

MstrGhost
08-27-2003, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Pumpkins23836
That's almost certainly for the best.
:confused: