View Full Version : Your lack of appreciating Machina shows your maturity.


Marlon Brando
07-16-2003, 01:40 AM
billy said machina was their most mature album musicaly and emotionaly. I agree with that. thats why its more powerful.. the way you can hear his emotion holding back in his voice as well. like how brando holds back his emotions until just the right moment to make for better performances instead of just being tottally out of control.. out of control like Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie, which are great for that and great albums because of that.. but they are less mature and ultimatley not as interesting or powerful because for those reasons they can be looked down upon, wheras Machina will always bee looked up to. you can hear billy's coldness and relflection in the songs... and in the lyrics... and that more powerful then some young guy spewing out every emotion that comes to mind like some alchoholic... loving you one minute and going crazy the next... thats less powerful then watching someone try and control that.

whats the difference.. if machina had more early 90's guitar sounds. you all would love it no matter regardless of the machina epic. fucking simple idiots.

Thoughtless
07-16-2003, 02:10 AM
will you just leave already?


"lack of appreciating"? your lack of grammar shows your maturity!

Thoughtless
07-16-2003, 02:16 AM
oh, and


Originally posted by Marlon Brando
*states lyrical differences between Machina and SD/MCIS and why Machina is so much better*

whats the difference.. if machina had more early 90's guitar sounds. you all would love it no matter regardless of the machina epic. fucking simple idiots.

Dead
07-16-2003, 03:02 AM
This guy rules.

mono
07-16-2003, 05:51 AM
Nigga, please.

ava transformer
07-16-2003, 08:11 AM
i have grown to like machina 1 more & more over the last few months, in retrospect it's not as bad as i thought it was. the new wave feel of the bass lines & stuff come out more to me.

Ugly
07-16-2003, 08:49 AM
You think he was molested by his uncle?

i wanna die
07-16-2003, 09:11 AM
I agree...machina isn't immediately gratifying as say, siamese dream..but that doesn't make it inferior..alot of ppl roll their eyes when i make this point, but what makes it great is that the more you pay attention the more you get out of it...you can listen to it 5 trillion times and notice something new every time..when you first hear it the album sounds muddy and overproduced, but as you listen you become aware of the several layers of sound harmonizing, and jimmys 'army march' drumtrack really tops it all off (esp. on sacred and profane)..the reason why machina never really has been appreciated is because it's ahead of its time; ppl can go ahead and bitch about it but in 20 yrs. it'll be regarded as the band's best effort.

JmE
07-16-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by i wanna die
the reason why machina never really has been appreciated is because it's ahead of its time; ppl can go ahead and bitch about it but in 20 yrs. it'll be regarded as the band's best effort.

Who's going to care about the Pumpkins in 20 years? They're just another Behind the Music story after what happened between MCIS and Adore. Well I suppose some of us will care. It sure is the band's best effort though, especially after Billy himself mentioned only giving 80% effort, and he is the band. It's a great album still though, despite that, I agree with everything you've said.

Dead
07-16-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by mono
Nigga, please.
Talk to the hand.

Gpub
07-16-2003, 10:58 AM
I prefer Bitch Please myself. :D

in stereo
07-16-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Marlon Brando
billy said machina was their most mature album musicaly and emotionaly. I agree with that. thats why its more powerful.. the way you can hear his emotion holding back in his voice as well. like how brando holds back his emotions until just the right moment to make for better performances instead of just being tottally out of control.. out of control like Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie, which are great for that and great albums because of that.. but they are less mature and ultimatley not as interesting or powerful because for those reasons they can be looked down upon, wheras Machina will always bee looked up to. you can hear billy's coldness and relflection in the songs... and in the lyrics... and that more powerful then some young guy spewing out every emotion that comes to mind like some alchoholic... loving you one minute and going crazy the next... thats less powerful then watching someone try and control that.

whats the difference.. if machina had more early 90's guitar sounds. you all would love it no matter regardless of the machina epic. fucking simple idiots.

OKAY, so if B0lly says it's their "most mature" album, how does liking it or disliking it have ANYTHING to do with the listener's maturity? As usual, your logic is as flawed as your grammar.

You're obviously one of those people who thinks B0lly can do no wrong. And at this point my personal reccomendation is to head to the Zwan board, where you belong.

Bwahaha

neopryn
07-16-2003, 12:02 PM
I like how he ends every post with "fucking losers" or "fucking dorks", or now, "fucking simple idiots"

NegativeSleep
07-16-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by neopryn
or now, "fucking simple idiots"

he's got to mix it up a bit, you know .... To complement his fresh and original ideas.

Marlon Brando
07-16-2003, 02:58 PM
well a couple people i this post are smart enough to see how machina will one day be regarded as the bands best album.. for me it already is. but other people saying how I think billy can do no wrong... well i dont like bands and become a big fan unless i like what they put out... so if you dont like what the pumpkins put out maybe you should like a different band.. just a suggestion. and the other person who said whose gonna listen to pumpkins in 20 years?.. well i still listen to bands from the 50's, 60's and 70's and 80's... many who are more popular now then they were at the time... and i wouldnt be surprised if that happens to pumpkins... i mean their albums will be talked about for at least the next hundred years in rock top 100 lists etc. and through word of mouth young people will always hear about them so.. i dont suspect they will go away.

haha someone said: "OKAY, so if B0lly says it's their 'most mature' album, how does liking it or disliking it have ANYTHING to do with the listener's maturity? As usual, your logic is as flawed as your grammar." thats just plain stupid. so if you love teletubies and reading the back of cereal boxe's like you.. and you dont love smashing pumpkins or orson welles like me... that makes YOU less mature. is that hard to understand? fucking dork.

and ive never heard billy said he only gave 80% effort and the pumpkins would never do that. they did say that they know it's not 'quite the same' as the old days before jimmy left then came back and before d'arcy left'.. but in the past they just put out cd's and toured and did interviews.. for machina.. they played more tv shows then ever before, did more interviews, wrote a story with it, put out several chapters.. were active on their website.. did a long world tour where they went remote places such as south africa... and still had enough to play two final shows, the final one being their longest show ever .... compared to how a lot of bands end, and compared to how a lot of bands perform their whole careers.. the machina era for pumpkins certainly didnt lack effort.. oh well, at least real fans like me and a couple people in this post appreciate it.

JmE
07-16-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Marlon Brando

and ive never heard billy said he only gave 80% effort and the pumpkins would never do that. they did say that they know it's not 'quite the same' as the old days before jimmy left then came back and before d'arcy left'.. but in the past they just put out cd's and toured and did interviews.. for machina.. they played more tv shows then ever before, did more interviews, wrote a story with it, put out several chapters.. were active on their website.. did a long world tour where they went remote places such as south africa... and still had enough to play two final shows, the final one being their longest show ever .... compared to how a lot of bands end, and compared to how a lot of bands perform their whole careers.. the machina era for pumpkins certainly didnt lack effort.. oh well, at least real fans like me and a couple people in this post appreciate it.

It's all in their record contract. Or do you think they would settle for a lawsuit being filed against them? I'm not trying to insult Billy or anything along those lines, but none of us were in the band during the time or had the slightest idea what Billy Corgan was thinking. I could be completely right, you could be completely wrong, but one thing you need to realize is that every band that exists and has some popularity is binded by their contracts. The whole story concept wasn't very well done, and he should've taken longer to put the finishing touches and make sure someone who has no idea where he is coming from can comprehend. Not to mention it would've been better if he had taken more time and gotten the entire band on the same page after everything that happened. But you know what? Whatever! It's all done, move on. None of it was ever in your control, or mine. Be a fan, be ignorant enough to call yourself a real fan if it makes you feel better. You are no better than anyone else. The beauty of music is it means something different to anyone, don't be a total ass and think you're some elite pig of a fan. Noone's talking shit to you because you are a fan, try to read between the lines.

pale blue eyes
07-16-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Marlon Brando
billy said machina was their most mature album musicaly and emotionaly. I agree with that. thats why its more powerful.. the way you can hear his emotion holding back in his voice as well. like how brando holds back his emotions until just the right moment to make for better performances instead of just being tottally out of control.. out of control like Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie, which are great for that and great albums because of that.. but they are less mature and ultimatley not as interesting or powerful because for those reasons they can be looked down upon, wheras Machina will always bee looked up to. you can hear billy's coldness and relflection in the songs... and in the lyrics... and that more powerful then some young guy spewing out every emotion that comes to mind like some alchoholic... loving you one minute and going crazy the next... thats less powerful then watching someone try and control that.

whats the difference.. if machina had more early 90's guitar sounds. you all would love it no matter regardless of the machina epic. fucking simple idiots.

You make me feel better about myself everytime you post.

Thoughtless
07-16-2003, 05:19 PM
i can understand that you have an opinion on this, but why do you feel it's needed so much to make everyone agree with you? you're like "OH NO!!!! THE MACHINA HATERS ARE THE CANCER OF THE HUMAN RACE! THEY MUST BE CHANGED IMMEDIATELY!!!". it's really fucking lame.



GO AWAY.


(copyright 2003, Hyperbole, Inc.)

Enzed
07-16-2003, 05:37 PM
I reckon it's Billy.

Dead
07-16-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Gpub
I prefer Bitch Please myself. :D
I'm with ya.

Gpub
07-16-2003, 05:45 PM
Keep it Gangsta Dead, Keep it Gangsta!







G.

Dead
07-16-2003, 05:56 PM
no diggety

Gpub
07-16-2003, 05:57 PM
I say we blast this foo..... you wit me.


Where my gun at?
Shiat!





G.

hampsterman22
07-16-2003, 07:40 PM
here, i can solve this. all men on this board whip out your dicks and get a ruler. then post the measurements, that way we can see who the real 'mature' people are.

hampsterman22
07-16-2003, 07:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thoughtless
[B]i can understand that you have an opinion on this, but why do you feel it's needed so much to make everyone agree with you? you're like "OH NO!!!! THE MACHINA HATERS ARE THE CANCER OF THE HUMAN RACE! THEY MUST BE CHANGED IMMEDIATELY!!!". it's really fucking lame.



GO AWAY.


i think marlon is a super-cancer, that can make your eyes bleed and your rectum fall out, turn you into a zombie full of hate and self-doubt, 28 days later style.

Thoughtless
07-16-2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by hampsterman22



i think marlon is a super-cancer, that can make your eyes bleed and your rectum fall out, turn you into a zombie full of hate and self-doubt, 28 days later style.

then he has gained my respect.

hampsterman22
07-16-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Thoughtless


then he has gained my respect. :rolleyes:

Marlon Brando
07-16-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by JmE


It's all in their record contract. Or do you think they would settle for a lawsuit being filed against them? I'm not trying to insult Billy or anything along those lines, but none of us were in the band during the time or had the slightest idea what Billy Corgan was thinking. I could be completely right, you could be completely wrong, but one thing you need to realize is that every band that exists and has some popularity is binded by their contracts. The whole story concept wasn't very well done, and he should've taken longer to put the finishing touches and make sure someone who has no idea where he is coming from can comprehend. Not to mention it would've been better if he had taken more time and gotten the entire band on the same page after everything that happened. But you know what? Whatever! It's all done, move on. None of it was ever in your control, or mine. Be a fan, be ignorant enough to call yourself a real fan if it makes you feel better. You are no better than anyone else. The beauty of music is it means something different to anyone, don't be a total ass and think you're some elite pig of a fan. Noone's talking shit to you because you are a fan, try to read between the lines.

it was in their record contract? then why didnt they do more stuff before, why doesnt every band do more then if they 'have to'. they only played on a select few tv shows for adore, and all the tour money for adore went to charity and they also didnt do many inteviews for it... so were they not allowed to do that? were they sued for that and i wasnt aware of it? if they have to tour why did billy say they should have taken a break after jimmy left instead of continuing on if your saying it wasnt even an option then? you keep saying none of us had the slightest idea what billy was thinking... are you fucking clueless? do you not read lyrics? interviews? listen to the pumpkins? read the stories? if you can do all that and still have no idea what someone is thinking, you are lost. or maybe you think he is lying to us for some reason.. that would go against everything the pumpkins have ever done but who knows with you.

they're popularity is binded by their contracts? i dont even know what that means... they have to sell lots of cd's or ... they get fined? jailed? they have to play to a certain amount of people or they get sued? ive never heard of that. i really dont know what your talking about. obviously pumpkins could have put out somethign anytime after mellon collie that would have sold huge cuz they have the talent to do that and know what people want.. instead they chose to not cater to people and do what they want and instead gives true fans like me what we want at the same time. doing so they became less popular with nonfans... so, were they sued for that? was that against their contract? i have no idea what your saying.

the story WAS very well done, it was in classic pumpkin tradition of esotericism and NO it shouldnt have been made more accesible to non-fans like you. it was made for US, people who like the pumpkins and would understand where they were coming from, it was a gift to pumpkins fans.. not you. the whole POINT of the story was for us to search ourselves to find its true meaning and in that process we ask big question about life and about ourselves... the searching was the point... and when you go back and listen to machina forever and ever, searching for the answers to the questions asked its whats really important.. june or daphne or zero could be anybody, its what they represent thats important.

in stereo
07-16-2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Marlon Brando
haha someone said: "OKAY, so if B0lly says it's their 'most mature' album, how does liking it or disliking it have ANYTHING to do with the listener's maturity? As usual, your logic is as flawed as your grammar." thats just plain stupid. so if you love teletubies and reading the back of cereal boxe's like you.. and you dont love smashing pumpkins or orson welles like me... that makes YOU less mature. is that hard to understand? fucking dork.


Yeah I said that. And as usual your reply makes no sense and ends with "fucking _____," in this case you used dork...but your arguments are at the most comical.

You really are the poster child for abortion....

Dead
07-16-2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Gpub
I say we blast this foo..... you wit me.
Cock the hammer, it's time for action!

Marlon Brando
07-16-2003, 10:19 PM
sorry, from now on i'll try and use smaller words so you can read what i say and your reponses might have somethign to do with what i said.

neopryn
07-16-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by Marlon Brando
sorry, from now on i'll try and use smaller words so you can read what i say and your reponses might have somethign to do with what i said.
it's about time. how could you forget how stupid netphorians are?

Mr. X
07-17-2003, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Marlon Brando

billy said machina was their most mature album musicaly and emotionaly. I agree with that. thats why its more powerful.. the way you can hear his emotion holding back in his voice as well. like how brando holds back his emotions until just the right moment to make for better performances instead of just being tottally out of control.. out of control like Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie, which are great for that and great albums because of that.. but they are less mature and ultimatley not as interesting or powerful because for those reasons they can be looked down upon, wheras Machina will always bee looked up to. you can hear billy's coldness and relflection in the songs... and in the lyrics... and that more powerful then some young guy spewing out every emotion that comes to mind like some alchoholic... loving you one minute and going crazy the next... thats less powerful then watching someone try and control that.



I think that we all understand now. You are the one and only true fan because you say machina is great and billy said that it was their most mature album. JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS MORE MATURE DOESN'T MEAN ITS GREAT. I think that your emotions are blind; you like billy soooooo much that you choose not to have your own opinions and just take on his. Everyone has their own opinions. You obviously love machina but many people don't but you don't seem to understand that. I myself don't see machina as horrible but its not their best IN MY OPINION. you can try all you want to try and sway everyone's opinion but its not gonna work. Also, you saying that we are less mature because we don't like machina is wrong. How would our tastes show our maturity? Just because you don't like something that is mature doesn't mean you aren't mature. You trying to sway everyone's opinion shows your maturity. I'd say you are the least mature person here.

Marlon Brando
07-17-2003, 07:11 PM
let me spell it out for you, you fucking loser, since you are such a moron.

someone buys a britney spears cd = immature

someone buys a ticket to 2 fast 2 furious = immature

someone waits in line to buy the new harry potter book = immature

you thinking taste and maturity have nothing to do with each other = immature

your maturity determines your taste... thats why your maturity gears your taste more towards albums like saimese dream and NOT machina, becuase YOU are immature.

machina = the best pumpkins album. period.

Thoughtless
07-17-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Marlon Brando
let me spell it out for you, you fucking loser, since you are such a moron.

someone buys a britney spears cd = immature

someone buys a ticket to 2 fast 2 furious = immature

someone waits in line to buy the new harry potter book = immature

you thinking taste and maturity have nothing to do with each other = immature

your maturity determines your taste... thats why your maturity gears your taste more towards albums like saimese dream and NOT machina, becuase YOU are immature.

machina = the best pumpkins album. period.

let me spell it out to you, you fucking brando.

mature=irrelevant to "good"

oclaftap
07-17-2003, 07:14 PM
dude your a narrow-minded whore, shutup

Marlon Brando
07-17-2003, 07:15 PM
yeah, siamese dream is the best album if your of a certain maturity... same as harry potter is the greatest book ever if yuo are of a certain maturity.. but as for us, which I asume are all old enough to understand machina cuz you say you do and you still dont like it... then your are just stupid. your maturity should allow you to realize machina is the best album but i guesse you are all underdeveloped.

Marlon Brando
07-17-2003, 07:17 PM
no you are narrowminded for not admitting that I am smarter and more mature then you, since thats the truth. I understand you are immature and lost and thats why you can relate so much to siamese dream.. but im not.. so get that through your head you fucking dork.

Thoughtless
07-17-2003, 07:20 PM
so you're saying machina will only be great to me when i'm 60?


you might want to learn what the fuck you're talking about before posting.

neopryn
07-17-2003, 07:20 PM
yeah guys, i mean he is 21 so...

Marlon Brando
07-17-2003, 07:21 PM
well im 21.. maybe im just mature for my age I dont know.. i mean billy was 33 when machina came out so... go watch cartoons you fucking loser. or as marlon would say, go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.

oclaftap
07-17-2003, 07:25 PM
first of all even if you are more mature it sure as hell does not make you smarter , and it seems to me you cant even think for yourself and you have to listen to what billy thinks is the best so you can too

decoy-13
07-17-2003, 07:49 PM
Marlon: I enjoy Machina as much as the next guy, but for fucksake grow up. As it has already been mentioned SEVERAL times; you're not going to change anyone's mind. People have there own certain tastes and you have to learn to DEAL with it. Just because someone doesn't like an album you like doesn't mean they are immature. I could probably name a handful of pumpkins songs that I think are awesome and you think are shit...So does that mean your immature because you don't like what I do?

If you still want to remain narrow-minded and jaded I think the Z-Board is still hiring retards...

neopryn
07-17-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Marlon Brando
maybe im just mature for my age I dont know
no, that's definitely it. your way with words and arguements shows wisdom beyond your years.

JmE
07-17-2003, 08:23 PM
Jesus you guys, Marlon Brando is fucking God. Get over yourselves, he's the fucking man. He's the smartest and most mature man alive. He's our savior. That must be it.

:erm

aztec litany service
07-17-2003, 08:47 PM
brando: if you were truly mature you wouldn't believe in this sort of elitism you seem to. you called someone narrowminded when that label apparently fits you more than anyone else in the thread. also, mature people realize that frustration or laughter inducing insults like 'fucking simple dorks' or whatever doesn't make them look very mature. not that they are so ultimately concerned with appearing mature, as they would be more secure in their maturity than you are, apparently

aztec litany service
07-17-2003, 08:49 PM
not saying i'm so mature myself...
i get frustrated with the purpose of it or whatever
bored
like a teenager
or like anything

pizzahunks
07-19-2003, 08:35 PM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/whocares5.jpg