View Full Version : does it bother anyone else that MSOTS and Adore bother start with the same 10 notes?


bonsor
06-22-2003, 05:29 PM
i haven't heard much discussion about this (actually, none at all) and i feel like i'm the only one who's ever noticed it.

THRILLHO
06-22-2003, 06:23 PM
that is awesome. i never noticed that.
actually it's 11 notes isn't it? (i'm not listening to them.)

Ann Ominous
06-22-2003, 06:32 PM
it tears me up inside.

Dead
06-22-2003, 06:33 PM
Holy shit that's awesome. Haahahaa!

bonsor
06-22-2003, 06:56 PM
wow.

i noticed that the moment i heard lyric.

is it possible to rip off yourself.

and mark, it's ten.

e---------0------------
B-----3-----3---3------
G---2---------2-----0--
D-0-----0---------2----

Salena Child
06-22-2003, 07:04 PM
it's a sine :erm

eraserhead
06-22-2003, 09:36 PM
its all part of the machina mystery. really.

Reyngel
06-22-2003, 09:37 PM
Uh, that riff is Billy's most common riff. :rolleyes:

Bury Me
Tonight, Tonight
Galapagos
Blank
To Sheila
Drown
Mayonaise
Thru The Eyes of Ruby
Lyric

Etc, etc, etc.

So many of his songs share that same type of riff, in some form, in some key.

peabody
06-22-2003, 10:22 PM
that's a common riff in lots of songs.

it's a nice sounding one, i can see why.

bonsor
06-22-2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Reyngel
Uh, that riff is Billy's most common riff. :rolleyes:

Bury Me
Tonight, Tonight
Galapagos
Blank
To Sheila
Drown
Mayonaise
Thru The Eyes of Ruby
Lyric

Etc, etc, etc.

So many of his songs share that same type of riff, in some form, in some key. those do not all contain the same 'riff'. they contain similar fingering/picking patterns, which i agree, is billy's most common (even though it's nowhere to be found in tonight tonight, mayonaise or galapagos), though of all the songs you mentioned, none of them have the Dsus2 chord which is right at the beginning with the band taceted. It's just something that I hear evertime I start the CD. I expect the C chord to come afterwards rather than the Gsus2.

man, i've always hated that rolleye crap.

Reyngel
06-22-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by ******
those do not all contain the same 'riff'. they contain similar fingering/picking patterns, which i agree, is billy's most common (even though it's nowhere to be found in tonight tonight, mayonaise or galapagos), though of all the songs you mentioned, none of them have the Dsus2 chord which is right at the beginning with the band taceted. It's just something that I hear evertime I start the CD. I expect the C chord to come afterwards rather than the Gsus2.

man, i've always hated that rolleye crap.

In Galapagos, I've noticed this "picking pattern," or whatever it is, during the part right before "Too late to turn back now," with the murmurs and whispering. In Mayonaise, I've noticed it in James's part. And in Tonight, Tonight... seriously? Isn't that the same pattern in the beginning... the part without the sustain, right before "Time, is never time at all?" I know that it's not always in the same key, but the pattern... it's in so, so many of his songs.

Thoughtless
06-22-2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Reyngel

So many of his songs share that same type of riff, in some form, in some key.

So there's riffs that aren't in forms or keys now?

Reyngel
06-22-2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Thoughtless


So there's riffs that aren't in forms or keys now?

As was already corrected, I meant to say "picking pattern." I don't play guitar, so I don't know all the language. But you knew what I meant, so, what's your point?

Reyngel
06-22-2003, 10:48 PM
Oh, and I inserted that "roll-eyes" thing to respond to the "Machina mystery" thing, not to be a bitch.

Reyngel
06-22-2003, 10:56 PM
Okay, I just listened to Mayonaise, Tonight Tonight and Galapagos, and I still hear it. There are -slight- differences in the pattern, but I'd bet money that all it is is an alteration by Billy... meaning... I'm pretty sure Billy was totally conscious that he was just "tweaking" that trademark pattern of his for those parts in those three songs. For instance... the part in Bury Me, which you didn't list as being a song that didn't exhibit the pattern... even that example is slightly different from the To Sheila/Blank/Lyric pattern. It's similar enough to know that it's no coincidence, but it's still slightly different. I think the same thing holds true for Mayonaise, Tonight Tonight and Galapagos. It's just a pattern that Billy's comfortable with... one that all he has to do is change the key, or slightly alter the pattern by a note or two, to make a really pretty, really easy new piece of a song.

Reyngel
06-22-2003, 10:59 PM
Oh... and I've always wondered... has anyone ever heard this pattern in any other song by any other artist? I've wondered this for such a long time, and everytime a song like Lyric surfaces that makes you go "oh here we go again," I wonder if any other artist has tried it out, or if Billy got the idea from someone else, etc. I'd be curious to hear another artist using it.

bonsor
06-22-2003, 11:00 PM
but it's not the same picking pattern, right?

right?

Thoughtless
06-22-2003, 11:03 PM
I don't think the point of the topic is "billy used something similar more than once! what an unoriginal bastard!". it's more along the lines of how he uses the exact same pattern on the same place on 2 different albums.

Reyngel
06-22-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Thoughtless
I don't think the point of the topic is "billy used something similar more than once! what an unoriginal bastard!". it's more along the lines of how he uses the exact same pattern on the same place on 2 different albums.

I don't either... and no one said that it was. As I said, I think it's a pretty pattern. It also seems like a really easy one to slightly change for easy song-writing. Those songs I listed that I hear the pattern in... they're all great songs.

Corganist
06-23-2003, 12:30 AM
For another instance where he uses this exact riff, look at the quiet part of Sun. I don't see it as a big deal though...its a really simple, subtle riff used in at least three songs that sound nothing alike. I mean, c'mon, would anyone really want to rip off To Sheila on purpose?

Lyric> To Sheila

Ann Ominous
06-23-2003, 12:33 AM
Reyngel posted some bullshit
..........

chut up.

bonsor
06-23-2003, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by Corganist
Lyric> To Sheila ^__^

Tyler
06-23-2003, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Corganist


Lyric> To Sheila

I object :banging: I like To Sheila better... but then maybe I'm just strange...

Boycott Graceland
06-23-2003, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Corganist
Lyric> To Sheila

http://1998.calicehockey.com/mr_t/sc6.gif

ChristHimself!
06-23-2003, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by Reyngel
Oh... and I've always wondered... has anyone ever heard this pattern in any other song by any other artist? I've wondered this for such a long time, and everytime a song like Lyric surfaces that makes you go "oh here we go again," I wonder if any other artist has tried it out, or if Billy got the idea from someone else, etc. I'd be curious to hear another artist using it.

Yes. Other artists must use it, you would realise this if you could play guitar which you obviously can't since you thought Tonight, Tonight was the same 'type' of riff / picking pattern / whatever, and it's not.

The pattern itself is incredibly easy and natural, I can't hit out with song titles that use it but I'm sure mogwai have probably used it, anyone who picks around on guitar at all. I would say it's most definitely appeared in some of me, Mic and Radiofred's demos, since we are all pumpkins influenced.

It isn't a conscious decision on Billy's part
"Ready Jimmy? We'll use that riff again, it's instant hit time!"
I often find my fingers want to play the main intro riff from porcelina, although maybe moved up the fretboard somewhere, it's just very comfortable and comes naturally.

oh but with regard to the topic I never actually noticed that before, I've never tried to play Lyric.

peabody
06-23-2003, 07:38 AM
blissed and gone uses it.

whenever there's a Dsus chord, I find myself picking the notes like that.

zoodboog
06-23-2003, 08:34 AM
Neo: whoa

DeadOpera
06-23-2003, 09:08 AM
yeah, that was the first thing i noticed when i listened to lyric.
and the second thing i noticed is that it sucks.
I like to sheila way better.

Corgan always copies himself east, tristessa and cherub rock it's almost like the same song. same chords different tempo.

Dead
06-23-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Boycott Graceland

http://1998.calicehockey.com/mr_t/sc6.gif
http://members.rogers.com/zerolove/john.jpg

DeviousJ
06-23-2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by DeadOpera
Corgan always copies himself east, tristessa and cherub rock it's almost like the same song. same chords different tempo.

:think:

RopeyLopey
06-23-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by DeadOpera
yeah, that was the first thing i noticed when i listened to lyric.
and the second thing i noticed is that it sucks.
I like to sheila way better.

Corgan always copies himself east, tristessa and cherub rock it's almost like the same song. same chords different tempo.


Cherub rock
|------------------------------------|
|------------------------------------|
|-11\9-----13/14---13-------11\9-----|
|------------------------------------|
|-9-\7-----11/12---11-------9-\7-----|
|------0-0-------0------0-0------0-0-|

Tristessa
|----------------------------|
|----------------------------|
|--------13-13---------11-11-|
|----------------------------|
|--------11-11---------9--9--|
|-0--0-0----12--0--0-0----10-|


Yes, and Zero is called on the new record Come with me,then...

severin
06-23-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by RopeyLopey

[FONT=courier new]


Yes, and Zero is called on the new record Come with me,then... you noticed it to??????

DeadOpera
06-23-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by RopeyLopey



Cherub rock
|------------------------------------|
|------------------------------------|
|-11\9-----13/14---13-------11\9-----|
|------------------------------------|
|-9-\7-----11/12---11-------9-\7-----|
|------0-0-------0------0-0------0-0-|

Tristessa
|----------------------------|
|----------------------------|
|--------13-13---------11-11-|
|----------------------------|
|--------11-11---------9--9--|
|-0--0-0----12--0--0-0----10-|


basically the same thing, i can make a zillion songs with those type of chords... he's just doing the same thing over and over. you have to admit East, Tristessa and Cherub Rock are similar that way. I also read in a magazine i have, corgan says he does rip himself off and he mentioned those songs. Now i'll have to find the quote.


Yes, and Zero is called on the new record Come with me,then...



basically the same thing, i can make a zillion songs with those type of chords... he's just doing the same thing over and over. you have to admit East, Tristessa and Cherub Rock are similar that way. I also read in a magazine i have, corgan says he does rip himself off and he mentioned those songs. Now i'll have to find the quote.

Thoughtless
06-23-2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by DeadOpera

basically the same thing, i can make a zillion songs with those type of chords... he's just doing the same thing over and over. you have to admit East, Tristessa and Cherub Rock are similar that way. I also read in a magazine i have, corgan says he does rip himself off and he mentioned those songs. Now i'll have to find the quote.

The only similar thing about those songs is that he's using a major chord shape (and it's not an actual chord either, no fifth) with the triad as an octave.

In-Valid
06-23-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by RopeyLopey



Cherub rock
|------------------------------------|
|------------------------------------|
|-11\9-----13/14---13-------11\9-----|
|------------------------------------|
|-9-\7-----11/12---11-------9-\7-----|
|------0-0-------0------0-0------0-0-|

Tristessa
|----------------------------|
|----------------------------|
|--------13-13---------11-11-|
|----------------------------|
|--------11-11---------9--9--|
|-0--0-0----12--0--0-0----10-|


Yes, and Zero is called on the new record Come with me,then...

yea. When Gish first came out Guitar World was calling that the Pumpkin Chord. (Check out Rhinoceros + Glynis also). He also bases the Mayonaise solo on that chord.

IIRC It's actually a chord Jimi Hendrix made popular which Billy put to good use. Maybe that's why Billy's style was being compared to Jimi Hendrix when Gish was first released.....ya gotta admit Billy was badass during Gish (his Golden God era).

bonsor
06-23-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by DeadOpera

basically the same thing, i can make a zillion songs with those type of chords... he's just doing the same thing over and over. you have to admit East, Tristessa and Cherub Rock are similar that way. I also read in a magazine i have, corgan says he does rip himself off and he mentioned those songs. Now i'll have to find the quote. those aren't chords.

bonsor
06-23-2003, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by In-Valid


yea. When Gish first came out Guitar World was calling that the Pumpkin Chord. (Check out Rhinoceros + Glynis also). He also bases the Mayonaise solo on that chord.

IIRC It's actually a chord Jimi Hendrix made popular which Billy put to good use. Maybe that's why Billy's style was being compared to Jimi Hendrix when Gish was first released.....ya gotta admit Billy was badass during Gish (his Golden God era). E7#9. Word.