View Full Version : Question RE: legalities/ownership of taping.


sweet17
06-04-2003, 01:30 PM
My friend taped the Matthew Good show at the Kool Haus in April. Please leave all comments like "why wood he tap a crappie band lik matt goode anywayz?" at the door, because I don't really care for them.

He then quickly transferred the show and burned a cd-R for our friend who was at the show with him who isn't big into trading etc, and wouldn't care if it wasn't EQed or whatever. The taper then EQ'ed it properly, is sharing it in SHN format on the hubs and accepting trades for it. However, the other friend with the preEQ copy (against the tapers wishes) MP3'd his copy at 320kb and started trading it out as MP3. Somehow, this copy has leaked since gone from 320kbps to 192kbps, and is now being posted track by track up on the official Matthew Good website [nationofcool.com] as part of a weekly download feature at 128kbps. The fans seem to really like it, so the taper e-mailed the admin and told him that he would appreciate if the admin wouldn't put up the whole show, but politely suggested about 4 or 5 songs would be alright with him. The taper also stated that "it's not that [he doesn't] want it being shared or people hearing it, it's just [he doesn't] want such lossy versions going around. "

The admin then e-mailed him back, and here's what he said:

"Well, seeing as how it is Matt's stuff, we'll put what we want up. We're certainly not going to sell anything, but if you want to send me some high quality mp3s, I'll put those up instead."

Now, my question is, does this guy have the rights to be posting my friends recording like this? Is there any action that can be taken by the taper?

Thanks.

sarmatianus
06-04-2003, 02:46 PM
Well, ask if they could not post the whole set. That way anyone who'd want the whole thing would have a lossless version.

Of course, anyone worth his salt trading-wise wouldn't be interested in MP3 sourced copies to begin with.

But one way or another, it's not worth losing sleep over, especially since the band is being cool enough taping-wise. Wouldn't want to jeopardize that. Now legally, yes, they are his recordings and he can legally control them (as long as they aren't sold). But it would cost too much both financially (for a lawyer) and for the community (for taping privileges) to do that.

In short: seek compromise.

Day dreaming Of Darcy
06-04-2003, 03:04 PM
Depending on what state you live in, usually the taper own's the rights to any recording. While Matthew Good may have copyrights on the songs that were performed, that recording was made with your friends equipment and is his copyright. The band usually cannot make any profit off a live recording because they need the tapers consent to use their recording. In such an instance, the taper would most likely be entitled royalties.

That being said, I'd say go for a compromise as well. If your friend wants to be hardheaded he can probably threaten legal action if they do not take it down. However, that's more work than it seems. If you're friend really wants to take some action of some sorts, I would advise him to either research the law in whichever state he lives in and inform the administrators of the law or work out a deal with the admins.

pzane

sweet17
06-04-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by sarmatianus
especially since the band is being cool enough taping-wise. That's the ironic thing: Matthew Good is very, very much against trading, and bootlegging of any sort. He's been known to point out tapers to security from stage, goes through every effort to stop bootlegs from being made, and makes sure that any non-official item (especially bootlegs) posted about on his message board are immediately deleted.

Originally posted by sarmatianus
Well, ask if they could not post the whole set.
That's what he did. He asked only five or so songs be released on the site. He even insinuated he'd be willing to send higher quality mp3s (that hadn't gone through several re-encodings, and would be post-EQ) to be spread. The admin seemed to not respect his wishes whatsoever.

Day dreaming Of Darcy
While Matthew Good may have copyrights on the songs that were performed, that recording was made with your friends equipment and is his copyright. The band usually cannot make any profit off a live recording because they need the tapers consent to use their recording. In such an instance, the taper would most likely be entitled royalties.
This is what is really interesting to me. It seems certain that the site is getting an increased amount of traffic concerning these MP3s, but there doesn't seem to be any advertisements or such that would be bringing in any monetary revenue. I doubt that exposure could really be considered profit...

The interesting thing was the unwillingness of the Admin to conpromise regarding the situation. "Well, seeing as how it is Matt's stuff, we'll put what we want up." What is the best way to argue this?

sweet17
06-04-2003, 03:36 PM
and for the record, it was taped in Canada, and will probably have drastically different copyright laws than any given American state. :( is it worth looking up?

Day dreaming Of Darcy
06-04-2003, 03:42 PM
If you want change, yes. I'm no canadian law expert but I would assume international copyright laws do apply in some instances. Exposure can be considered profit, but putting a value on it is difficult.

pzane

machinaddict
06-04-2003, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by sweet17
The taper then EQ'ed it properly, is sharing it in SHN format on the hubs and accepting trades for it.
Whom can I talk to regarding a trade for this?
I'd really like to have the shn copy of the show.

Rotten Iscariot
06-04-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by sweet17
Now, my question is, does this guy have the rights to be posting my friends recording like this?
As much right as your friend had to tape an artist that prohibits audience recording.
Originally posted by sweet17
there any action that can be taken by the taper?
Yes. Don't give your tapes to fuckwits.

Dead
06-04-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by sweet17
That's the ironic thing: Matthew Good is very, very much against trading, and bootlegging of any sort. He's been known to point out tapers to security from stage, goes through every effort to stop bootlegs from being made, and makes sure that any non-official item (especially bootlegs) posted about on his message board are immediately deleted.
What a jerk! :mad:

Brandont_h
06-04-2003, 09:48 PM
For what it's worth:

While I see the point here, I'd like to note something: Matt is vehemently anti-taping as others have mentioned. Before the release of his recent album, he threatened to stop playing any new songs whatsoever because of some mp3s that popped up shortly after a gig (at cayuga, maybe?).

Anyway, the best I can make of this situation is that at least the official site is posting these mp3s. While they might be shitty quality, and against the wishes of the taper, this is by FAR the most pro-taping stance Matt has ever taken, even if it's only a quasi-official stance.

Again, I see the issues here, and I understand why Brian would be upset, but I think there's a tiny bit of a silver lining.

-Brandon

Sacred Age Of Innocence
06-04-2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Dead

What a jerk! :mad:

Like you should be talking when it comes to who is a jerk :rolleyes:

Dead
06-04-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Sacred Age Of Innocence
Like you should be talking when it comes to who is a jerk :rolleyes:
Look who's talking, sissyboy!

http://www.emotioneric.com/stupidsite.jpg

name
06-04-2003, 10:19 PM
i don't care so much that they are up anymore. apparently it was matt's idea to put them up, so i'll take that a sign that he's now cool with taping.

but the mp3s sound so bad, i even offered to send better ones and the guy didn't even want them. oh well.

sweet17
06-05-2003, 12:07 AM
thanks, everyone, for your input. it helped a great deal!

Sebastian
06-05-2003, 05:35 AM
Damn, I totally missed this thread.

Actually, one of my recordings has been posted on the official Hole web site for years. But, due to the band's anti-taping policy I thought it might be a good idea not to e-mail them about it ;)

Sacred Age Of Innocence
06-07-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Dead

Look who's talking, sissyboy!

http://www.emotioneric.com/stupidsite.jpg

Oh shut up you power hungry loser. Do you feel good being a hub op?

Halteh
06-08-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Sacred Age Of Innocence


Oh shut up you power hungry loser. Do you feel good being a hub op?
I'm sensing a little bit of jealousy here.

Sacred Age Of Innocence
06-08-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Halteh

I'm sensing a little bit of jealousy here.

Then you need to get smacked so your senses get back in order.

:)

sarmatianus
06-08-2003, 05:13 PM
http://www.stone-dead.asn.au/tv-series/pictures/fc-22/pictures/number-15.jpg