View Full Version : mixing 2 sources?


severin
05-05-2003, 05:30 PM
what program is best for it, and how does one manage to get the tracks exactly "parallel" (in lack of a better way to describe it)?

any help would be appreciated...

Brandont_h
05-05-2003, 05:46 PM
Hey sev, it's been a while.

Any time I've done a mix, I've used Cool Edit Pro 2.0 in multitrack mode. I've lined the tracks up just by eye/ear. The hard part is that sometimes two tracks won't stay in sync due to differences in tape speed, etc.

-Brandon

severin
05-05-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Brandont_h
Hey sev, it's been a while.

Any time I've done a mix, I've used Cool Edit Pro 2.0 in multitrack mode. I've lined the tracks up just by eye/ear. The hard part is that sometimes two tracks won't stay in sync due to differences in tape speed, etc.

-Brandon thanks brandon...i'll be back on the hub shortly, i had some trouble with pc and stuff, should be sorted now..but i want to bring something new ;) (or at least a new source...)

GhostChild
05-05-2003, 06:07 PM
The program I use most if Cool Edit Pro...im the multi-track program like he said. The best way to do it is use one source as the base source...so no time will be cut or added to that source. Then you want to section it off in like 20-30 mine sections. You will find if you try to mix the whole show at once, phasing will occur later in the mix, so to be safe do 3-4 songs at a time. Find a part in each recording that is distinctive, like a snare drum or a loud kick drum...dig into the file as deep as you can and find the time the best you can at which that drum beat or whatever you choose occurs for each source. Then find the difference in the times between the two sources, then either cut time off the 2nd source or add slience in the start. I also usually fade in the 2nd source and faded it out so it sounds more natural when its kicking in.

Also...a word of advice when mixing two audience sources. If the two sources were taping semi close to eachother, it can cause problems with the sound waves hitting each mic system.

This mostly occurs with low end, but for example, what can happen is if you are standing semi close to eachother, the sound waves are hitting each mic system at different moments...so for source A when a drum hits...the sound wave may hit the mic by starting in a upward motion, then back down, then back up...etc like a wave. But say source B the wave starts in a downward motion. When mixing the sources, they will cancle eachother out, resulting in low end. In fact if postioned just right...all sound can be cancled out all together.

Now on the other hand...if the mics are positioned at the same spot, the waves will feed off eachother and actually amplify one another, giving you a more crisp sound.

This actually happened to me recently and I couldnt mix the shows. Pretty interesting though how if I took like .001 off one of the sources...the low end would start to cut out in different spots on the recordings since its lining up the waves differently. Crazy stuff I tell ya...good luck with it =)

-Jason

severin
05-05-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by GhostChild
The program I use most if Cool Edit Pro...im the multi-track program like he said. The best way to do it is use one source as the base source...so no time will be cut or added to that source. Then you want to section it off in like 20-30 mine sections. You will find if you try to mix the whole show at once, phasing will occur later in the mix, so to be safe do 3-4 songs at a time. Find a part in each recording that is distinctive, like a snare drum or a loud kick drum...dig into the file as deep as you can and find the time the best you can at which that drum beat or whatever you choose occurs for each source. Then find the difference in the times between the two sources, then either cut time off the 2nd source or add slience in the start. I also usually fade in the 2nd source and faded it out so it sounds more natural when its kicking in.

Also...a word of advice when mixing two audience sources. If the two sources were taping semi close to eachother, it can cause problems with the sound waves hitting each mic system.

This mostly occurs with low end, but for example, what can happen is if you are standing semi close to eachother, the sound waves are hitting each mic system at different moments...so for source A when a drum hits...the sound wave may hit the mic by starting in a upward motion, then back down, then back up...etc like a wave. But say source B the wave starts in a downward motion. When mixing the sources, they will cancle eachother out, resulting in low end. In fact if postioned just right...all sound can be cancled out all together.

Now on the other hand...if the mics are positioned at the same spot, the waves will feed off eachother and actually amplify one another, giving you a more crisp sound.

This actually happened to me recently and I couldnt mix the shows. Pretty interesting though how if I took like .001 off one of the sources...the low end would start to cut out in different spots on the recordings since its lining up the waves differently. Crazy stuff I tell ya...good luck with it =)

-Jason thanks a lot for the advice...actually my task is not mixing the whole show of it.. as it happened i had one song cut and want to mix the missing part into my recording. so cancelling will not really take place...i think i brought them in the right spots on the timeline, now my biggest problem is that it just sounds differently...i guess a fade will take something away of that, but one will always hear that it is patched. still better than an incomplete one i guess...

GhostChild
05-05-2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by severin
thanks a lot for the advice...actually my task is not mixing the whole show of it.. as it happened i had one song cut and want to mix the missing part into my recording. so cancelling will not really take place...i think i brought them in the right spots on the timeline, now my biggest problem is that it just sounds differently...i guess a fade will take something away of that, but one will always hear that it is patched. still better than an incomplete one i guess...

Yeah when you are just filling...for sure fade in and out the part you are filling in with...makes a more smoother transition into the overall recording. Try to get the levels as close together as you can as well.

zerozwan
05-05-2003, 07:45 PM
sev... zwan, italy?

i know what you're up to, bitch! :D

severin
05-05-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by zerozwan
sev... zwan, italy?

i know what you're up to, bitch! :D got me there ;) i decided to go with wavelab...now if i only could figure out how to crossfade those damn 2 tracks into each other in that audio-montage thingy....i'm going nuts over here...

DoctaSoma
05-06-2003, 01:10 AM
Originally posted by GhostChild
When mixing the sources, they will cancle eachother out, resulting in low end. In fact if postioned just right...all sound can be cancled out all together.

Now on the other hand...if the mics are positioned at the same spot, the waves will feed off eachother and actually amplify one another, giving you a more crisp sound.



I have no actual experience doing this but; if you were finding that the 2 recordings were moreorless exactly out of phase and were hence cancelling each other out, couldn't you invert one of the recordings (in the y direction), and bring them back into phase?

I mean simplistically Sine x is = - (Sine (x+pi/2)) sine(x+pi/2) being exactly out of phase. While a sound wave is a hell of a lot more complex than a simple sine wave Baah, shit.

No I see why that wouldn't work, only some frequencies would be out of phase, others might be in phase - so inverting one of the waves would only swap the frequencies that were cancelled and those that were reinforced. And many frequencies would be somewhere in the middle, changing from partial reinforcement to partial cancellation as the sound waves slipped past each other, in which case inversion would achieve nothing.

Aah well. Glad I cleared that up for myself

GhostChild
05-06-2003, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by DoctaSoma


I have no actual experience doing this but; if you were finding that the 2 recordings were moreorless exactly out of phase and were hence cancelling each other out, couldn't you invert one of the recordings (in the y direction), and bring them back into phase?

I mean simplistically Sine x is = - (Sine (x+pi/2)) sine(x+pi/2) being exactly out of phase. While a sound wave is a hell of a lot more complex than a simple sine wave Baah, shit.

No I see why that wouldn't work, only some frequencies would be out of phase, others might be in phase - so inverting one of the waves would only swap the frequencies that were cancelled and those that were reinforced. And many frequencies would be somewhere in the middle, changing from partial reinforcement to partial cancellation as the sound waves slipped past each other, in which case inversion would achieve nothing.

Aah well. Glad I cleared that up for myself

That could very well work...but I have no idea how I would go about inverting the waves and such...I don't think cool edit pro can do that.