Which is the best rip of Machina II and why?

agnew
faster, dirtier, more aggressive.
it's the version for fans who were there right in the beginning attached themselves to.
https://archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Agnew

Q101

It's a good question indeed. Depending on the source, the album is enjoyable - or not. It's weird, but the fact that it was sourced from vinyl prevented me from really getting into it (not to mention there's a lot of material i'm not fond of).I have my doubts about the quality of the original Machina 2 pressing. Listening to "Machina II" I always hear not so good quality vinyl (it was 2000 after all), and some songs sound quite average on it (the end of side grooves are always not as good as the beginning and I find it quite noticeable on Machina II). I love vinyl but why BC decided to give it away in this format is a bit strange to me.

the Q101 isn't sourced from vinyl though ? or was it

all copies are sourced from vinyl. Q101 was given a copy by BC and then made CDs from it. theoretically they could have done a better transfer than Agnew, and the Virgin Promo has some stuff cut out

I was always a bit pissed that Agnew got a copy, just because he ran a website. The rest of us fans got screwed.

Somehow, I have never listened to this Agnew version. Why is the pitch so much higher? Is this related to the revolution speed at which the file was created? Which speed is correct? I like the higher pitch version better. But is it intended by the band?

Compared to live performances, the Agnew version is probably "incorrect"

makes sense. Thanks

been a while since i've compared these myself, but the guy who put together Glass & the Machines of God seemed pretty convinced Virgin was the best sourced. I don't even know which is the one i'm actually listening to regularly now, seems like a personal preference thing, honestly

Somehow, I have never listened to this Agnew version. Why is the pitch so much higher? Is this related to the revolution speed at which the file was created? Which speed is correct? I like the higher pitch version better. But is it intended by the band?

his turntable was running slightly fast

Fuck the terrible pressing and rips, I'm just waiting for the reissue at this point

the reissue is on hold, confirmed by BC a few days ago....

also most people on here would kill their entire families for a chance to own the vinyl, no matter how bad the pressing is

Q101 rip is still the best to my ears. The Agnew one has too much surface noise and sounds muddy.

https://archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Q101

I love to grill outside this time of year.

You're the type of guy who has three nipples but only uses one.

I've pretty much only ever listened to the Q101 rip, which sounds fine to me. When I listen to the other rips it's usually just to compare them to the Q101 rip that I'm used to, and then I'll just go back to the Q101 rip anyway. The others seemed to be noisier or not as clear.

Why not just download them all and compare for yourself?

http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Agnew
http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Q101
http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.SPIFC
http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Virgin

People always complain about the awful sound quality, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it. That way people go on about it you'd think that it was recorded on a boombox. I guess it depends on what rip they're listening to.

always thought it was supposed to sound blown out and rough. way more appealing production than M1, at least

Yeah I mean compared to any other Pumpkins release it's by far the most rough and raw sounding, but it's still good for what it is.

Most people think that Tales of a Scorched Earth is the worst song on MCIS but it's one of my favourites, sooo.....

Would ripping MII again with whatever tools available today be much of an improvement over what's been out there since 2000?

I like it if I'm in the right mindset for it

Would ripping MII again with whatever tools available today be much of an improvement over what's been out there since 2000?

the difference would probably be miniscule. like unnoticeable without a very nice playback system

So Agnew fucked it up. Again, never understood why he got one.

Would ripping MII again with whatever tools available today be much of an improvement over what's been out there since 2000?

The main difference you will get is determined by the quality of the turntable and needle used to play the vinyl. You get record players costing thousands and thousands of dollars, and you get needles costing several thousand as well. If someone used some ultra expensive setup to transfer the LP to digital you would notice a difference for sure. I'm not sure what sort of setups have been used so far.

If someone could make a 24/96 transfer that would be great. But we'd probably start to hear the limitations of the vinyl pressing quality.

The keyboard on "Try" makes me seasick. Can't wait for a non-vinyl sourced version.

always thought it was supposed to sound blown out and rough.
This.
the Agnew rip compounded on that approach.
songs are faster
the higher pitch makes billy's voice more nasal and aggressive
the extra surface noise....

It's not supposed to have the clean crisp production like SD.

the reissues will be a nice retrospective, but it's not going to replace that original.

This.
the Agnew rip compounded on that approach.
songs are faster
the higher pitch makes billy's voice more nasal and aggressive
the extra surface noise....

It's not supposed to have the clean crisp production like SD.

the reissues will be a nice retrospective, but it's not going to replace that original.

The Agnew rip was 3% too fast apparently.

Would ripping MII again with whatever tools available today be much of an improvement over what's been out there since 2000?

absolutely not

the album was hastily mixed/mastered and its going to sounds like that no matter what. can't remember where i read/heard it - but most of the machina 2 songs are rough takes with maybe only one hasty overdub added if anything

Both of the machina albums i put into a category of albums that practically need to be listened to with headphones. concerning M2, you can really crawl inside the space created with a decent set of headphones and a hi-quality rip. If anything, it's a really fucking good demo tape, a bit more polished than a rehearsal tape would be.

even though it is presented as an album, these tracks are very much a homemade affair. i think a lot of people forget that aspect. it's a bedroom concept album made of demos b-sides and rehearsal tapes.

July 15, 2000 - Recording Studio...Chicago, IL -- buried deep inside some altar of noize I write to you a desperate man...my star is fading and I do not know what to do...I stare at the track sheets and wonder where the magic went...I feel it all crashing down upon me...oh woe is i...how are you?...I am sure by now that you have deciphered all the deep alchemical codes of machina and have now moved on to some 8th generation alt-rap-metal hybrid bands new disc and are peering deep into the meanings there too...shit! I had it all so planned out and curses I have been foiled...I guess all those things they said about us and especially yours truly bill/glass/zero/jackboot7 are true...I can't tell you how sad this makes me...to compensate I have written a batch of songs so sad they are almost happy if you know what I mean...isn't the planet supposed to end with all this millenial paranoia...but wait there is a light...and maybe even a plan or too...must finish machina soon or will perish like tangerines...takus carus allus ovus youse...xo





July 17, 2000 - Making Music In Chicago -- happy to report that there are some 10-14 tracks that are in some sort of shape or another...it's sometimes hard to jog the memory of what we were thinking or doing at any given moment because some of these songs haven't been worked on in over a year...but now is the right time because after the band splits it is not the kind of thing you want to try to finish in 10 years or so when we go ahead and put out that penultimate box set...so we blow the dust off the guitars and tune up rusty strings and try to make some more emotionless music...er, I mean heartfelt and deep music that is obviously emotional...what else do you want to know...I can tell you that if you want to solve a puzzle you must first understand the point of the puzzle...so what is the point of this puzzle...to confuse? enlighten? enrage? or just titillate...or could it just be for fun, because to save one's soul you must first learn how to laugh...please understand that I am laughing, not at you, but with you, and I certainly am laughing at myself, so please put your hearts together and laugh with me...I put a little sunshine here between the cracks so you can see that you are inside a box...I of course am trapped in the box you stare at and cannot leave...admission is free to all those that are...(drumroll please)...free!...oh and another thing or two...please check out pumpkins radio which has been carefully collected to draw you deeper...there is also another chapter of the friends and enemies of modern music featuring glass and the machines of god floating around in space somewhere and I will try to wrench it out to you soon...I know you just cannot wait! with the same baited breath that I had when I cared, er or when I dared, or shall I say when I was wuzing my way across the crossings...tracks laid bare for all to laugh at...so you see it really is all a joke, but the joke is not on you or me but probably them, I suppose...but I can't say for sure...till then s. r.'s...
xo





July 25 2000 - chi-town mojo blues-haze -- with only a limited time remaining, the tapes are still flying...some tapes are in such poor condition that we are cooking 'em up in the oven, but hey the music is still cool...the sun is shining outside but the florescent lights almost do the trick, plus we have the orgone meters set to full so we look almost real...soon we start gearing up for the summersalt tour in canada dry, and I suppose we might actually rehearse for a change so get your signs requesting towers of rabble and soma ready cause we can still read...after that comes the taping of vh-1 storytellers which of course will be full of lies because no one certainly knows what these songs are about, certainly not the singer...we have begun to prepare for the storytellers by finishing the much rumored jack-o-lantern suite, almost 8 1/2 years in the making...the story of the writing of the suite could probably take up the entire hour of the program, between telling the story of meeting the indian sage, the missoula mystic, and the tuscaloosa titan in the barrelhouse barn and finding a rusty guitar in a corner...my fingers just bled until I found the right notes, but I'll save all that for the taping...hope to see you there...





July 27 2000 - in a world war 2 bunker -- tick-tock the rumours are flying flick-flack but who knows the windpipe cracked and that nobody gives a rat's ass piddle-dum-tweedle-see I told you but nobody would listen all you hear is a lot of wishin soot-soot-beedle-bum and now I'm down in the land of swan song and world war gunners reading racy novels to kill the time-time gotta keep it off my mind-mind so let the games begin or did they already start-start to become annoying boy you gotta-getta a problem mister but I am queer as a 5 legged steer-fear-seer says the fisherman just fishin for wishes and pretty girls da-da-dum-dum it's just that all my wishes are not yours but many of yours are mine but it's all good-good-good smiles from ear to ear don't get lost in the maze of haze and purple smoke cause it's a psychadelic shack of love and muzak hold your breath it's comiing soon but not how you imagine in june-june did somebody say it was july?...poppa ow mow mow (look it up!)...xo

dude was totally on ice

The Agnew rip was 3% too fast apparently.
I know :beatup:
I'm pretty sure I'm the one who came up with that number.
and don't forget the tilda when stating my fact.
~3%

4 realz

blue skiez bring tearz

that's an embarrassing typa

Unfortunately no one has heard how they're really supposed to sound, because they were meant to be played at 45rpm, not 33rpm.

So much faster and grittier

Unfortunately no one has heard how they're really supposed to sound, because they were meant to be played at 45rpm, not 33rpm.

So much faster and grittier


Vocals by Billy the Chipmunk?

you know it

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/Chipmunk_Punk_Cover.jpg

the reference calculation was done with Real Love from the Greatest hits digital version

shallowed should know better that 3% is hardly enough to even pitch the vocals a little

It definitely sounds slightly higher pitched. 3% pitch change is a quarter tone difference.

The keyboard on "Try" makes me seasick. Can't wait for a non-vinyl sourced version.

The non-vinyl sourced version of Try is on the Untitled CD single, right?

i most definitely notice the 3% pitch change. it drives me crazy, can't listen to it.

what's stranger is, i hear this all the time when i watch shows on tv that feature songs i know.
i always tried to figure out why this happens but i'm not sure how to look for the answer

Agnew version fucking sucked

Q101 any day

Why is there no 24/96 version? Surely someone with one of the original vinyls could get it done on a top quality turntable and converted to 24/96 for our listening pleasure?

i most definitely notice the 3% pitch change. it drives me crazy, can't listen to it.

what's stranger is, i hear this all the time when i watch shows on tv that feature songs i know.
i always tried to figure out why this happens but i'm not sure how to look for the answer

Do you mean old song that are taken from vinyl?

Why is there no 24/96 version? Surely someone with one of the original vinyls could get it done on a top quality turntable and converted to 24/96 for our listening pleasure?

No one gives a shit anymore. One popped on eBay a few years ago but BC shut it down.

The non-vinyl sourced version of Try is on the Untitled CD single, right?

Why thank you. I missed that single, I don't like "Untitled" which I have on the Greatest Hits anyway. I should have paid more attention to the b-sides (which i usually do). My bad.

I never thought commercial Machina was that bad. Misunderstood, yes, but nowhere near as bad as people claim it to be. Some great stuff on there.

Machina II sound quality-wise goes down just the way it's meant to: a dying final broadcast from a fire that once raged out of control. Then the wheels started falling off and the band was free-falling into fickle obscurity.

It's also the last truly great thing Corgan's done, and probably forever will be. I hope if he does re-issue it, it outsells everything he's done since.

i most definitely notice the 3% pitch change. it drives me crazy, can't listen to it.

what's stranger is, i hear this all the time when i watch shows on tv that feature songs i know.
i always tried to figure out why this happens but i'm not sure how to look for the answer

Simple answer they speed up shows to get more commercials in. I notice it when a prime-time show like Mythbusters is played in daytime slot, makes me feel like I"m losing my mind. The first time I even noticed this was the night after a Boris concert and I thought I had totally destroyed my lower frequency hearing because suddenly voices sounded higher pitched to me.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fast-forward-tv-networks-speed-up-shows-to-play-more-ads/

i most definitely notice the 3% pitch change. it drives me crazy, can't listen to it.

what's stranger is, i hear this all the time when i watch shows on tv that feature songs i know.
i always tried to figure out why this happens but i'm not sure how to look for the answer

NTSC > PAL conversion maybe

No one gives a shit anymore. One popped on eBay a few years ago but BC shut it down.

Actually Monte just vaguely threatened the person and they freaked out and pulled it.

Why is there no 24/96 version? Surely someone with one of the original vinyls could get it done on a top quality turntable and converted to 24/96 for our listening pleasure?

I think agnew (could have been another owner) had offered to do a 2496 rip a few years back
but he wanted the community to buy him a laser type record player so the record wouldn't be damaged.
Seeing as how only 25 copies were made, there's probably no metal master and each one was cut individually - like a test print. this makes them less robust and more likely to wear.

NTSC > PAL conversion maybe

Simple answer they speed up shows to get more commercials in. I notice it when a prime-time show like Mythbusters is played in daytime slot, makes me feel like I"m losing my mind. The first time I even noticed this was the night after a Boris concert and I thought I had totally destroyed my lower frequency hearing because suddenly voices sounded higher pitched to me.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fast-forward-tv-networks-speed-up-shows-to-play-more-ads/

these are both pretty good explanations

Rider, what you posted was really interesting but for example the other day I was watching Armageddon when it came on TV (i was vulnerable, dont judge me!) and the aerosmith song was insanely higher pitched. and there were no commercials. maybe it is that conversion then. or perhaps a combination of the two, which speeds it up even more

Maybe it was the epic key change?

http://i61.tinypic.com/1zefczb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QPo2Hl9.gif

I think agnew (could have been another owner) had offered to do a 2496 rip a few years back
but he wanted the community to buy him a laser type record player so the record wouldn't be damaged.
Seeing as how only 25 copies were made, there's probably no metal master and each one was cut individually - like a test print. this makes them less robust and more likely to wear.

A laser recorder wouldnt produce as good quality sound would it?

a laser type record player

what is this laser type record player you speak of? Is it expensive?

Laser turntables don't sound any better. They are used in archives to rip old rare records without any contact or risk of damage. People just assume because the library of congress pays $10,000 for a turntable it must sound amazing and that's not the case at all. In fact odds are they would sound worse.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-laser-turntable.313384/

yes but lazer

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Bh7bYNAHXxw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

always thought it was supposed to sound blown out and rough. way more appealing production than M1, at least

Agreed, 100% sure this is the sound Billy was going for, since some of the album theme is not "Friends and Enemies of Modern Music." The lyrics place it closer to "The Rise and Fall of Glass and the Ghost Children" aka Smashing Pumpkins.

if you had a laser that could see through peoples clothes who would you look at first

Monte's.

Won't it burn right through our records ?

Laser turntables don't sound any better. They are used in archives to rip old rare records without any contact or risk of damage. People just assume because the library of congress pays $10,000 for a turntable it must sound amazing and that's not the case at all. In fact odds are they would sound worse.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-laser-turntable.313384/


best quote:

Won't it burn right through our records ?



My first thought was that he was talking about a linear tracking turn table, which used a "laser" to locate gaps between songs. But they didn't sound any better.

Better to use a top quality normal turntable with a well set up very expensive needle.

If anyone with a MII vinyl wanted it ripped, just send it to pbthal.

Is this Pbthal in anyway related to Cthulhu, or Nyarlathotep?

If anyone with a MII vinyl wanted it ripped, just send it to pbthal.

^^

please do not rip

[/thread]

I'd rip it if I had a copy. No point keeping it wrapped up forever. It's not even a great album.

http://www.elitedestinationfl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/3d-laser-man.jpg

LAZERZ!

:banoonoo:

If anyone with a MII vinyl wanted it ripped, just send it to pbthal.

Speaking of this, looks like pbthal is looking for the original HUT MCIS 3x LPs (http://vinyldoneright.nl/blog/) to re-rip into hi-res.

Speaking of this, looks like pbthal is looking for the original HUT MCIS 3x LPs (http://vinyldoneright.nl/blog/) to re-rip into hi-res.

That would be great. I always regret not buying those at the time.

Strange, I thought there was already a PBTHAL rip of the MCIS Vinyl. I think I downloaded years ago.

I like the Q101 rip the most, it's uncut (unlike the Virgin Promo) and seems to have the right transfer speed (unlike Agnew's rip, although the higher pitching makes some songs interesting sound-wise). I'd like to see detailed transfer information for all rips though.

YAYER, the 13 rip got pulled off archive.org...serves that fucker right. After all, it's no real rip.

I had looked into it and it was actually 13 that got the rip taken down. - claimed ownership over his work/name and didn't want it distributed in that channel. what a fucktard.
I just wanted everyone to have access to all the circulating versions when I uploaded them. I should edit the descriptions to exclude the now dead link.

changes are queued up
http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.13 link removed from description....
FUCK THAT GUY.


while we're at it.
are there any other changes I should make to the descriptions on the archive.org pages?

download stats

http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Virgin
43,962 Downloads

http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Q101
37,696 Downloads

http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Agnew
21,397 Downloads

http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.SPIFC
2,285 Downloads

you could fix a typo for the SPIFC version..there's an "n" missing in the beginning...it reads "interet fan club"

you could fix a typo for the SPIFC version..there's an "n" missing in the beginning...it reads "interet fan club"
reasonable request, done.

Does anyone have the RealAudio 320kbit/s versions that were hosted on the official SP site?
I thought I had them, but nothing in my files looks like the original files...

who cares? mp3 is a devil when it comes to trading. Besides 320 kbps is so fucking pointless (for trading), might just as well upload the wav file which is uncompressed and not much bigger. All in all, the lineage is important. But I guess 320 is good for getting an easy and still good quality listening.

Thanks for the correction.

BTW don't tell fuck you to agnew. He was apparently the one who got it out hella fast for many listeners to enjoy. Besides, he gave a quite detailed specs of his set-up and already admitted it wasn't very pro, so many kudos to him.

Btw, why is there a reference to SP having plans to reunite in 2006 on all the versions now? Since it dosn't have to do anything with MII it should/could be left out due to irrelevance.

BTW don't tell fuck you to agnew.
mean "fuck you" to the Thir13 guy... his version was taken off archive.org. agnew version is still there.

who cares? mp3 is a devil when it comes to trading.
what were the sites RealAudio files sourced from? were they the virgin CD's?

tw, why is there a reference to SP having plans to reunite in 2006 on all the versions now?
I just copy pasted stuff from wiki at the time when they got uploaded. I'll go trim some of that fat.
edit: edit is done.

mean "fuck you" to the Thir13 guy... his version was taken off archive.org. agnew version is still there.

Ah ok. Agreed to that.

what were the sites RealAudio files sourced from? were they the virgin CD's?

I think I remember about RA files being uploaded by someone on here (I think Dead, but I dunno any details). Maybe search the netphoria archive or https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.music.smash-pumpkins

download stats

http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Virgin
43,962 Downloads

http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Q101
37,696 Downloads

http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Agnew
21,397 Downloads

http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.SPIFC
2,285 Downloads

Aw come on, the Virgin version is more popular than Q101?

they're both good rips. there's nothing wrong with the virgin one.