View Full Version : Interview in The Guardian


darcy666
12-18-2014, 10:49 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/dec/18/billy-corgan-smashing-pumpkins-interview

Elijah Moon
12-18-2014, 10:58 AM
"If young Billy had gotten the credit he deserved, when he deserved it, then things might have been different."

I can imagine him saying the same thing in court when he finally snaps and goes on a killing spree.

smashingschnauz
12-18-2014, 11:00 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/dec/18/billy-corgan-smashing-pumpkins-interview

Hilarious! Sometimes I think it's a wrestling act.

FoolofaTook
12-18-2014, 11:05 AM
This is a fucking brilliant album from a brilliant artist.


loling @ b0lly

FoolofaTook
12-18-2014, 11:09 AM
Oh my God. I hope you and I are never locked in an elevator together. Because you would either kill me or I would kill you.

this interview is the most interesting thing corgan has done in 14 years

Mals Marola
12-18-2014, 11:25 AM
the thing with the ninja cover is baffling, did he not make this album specifically to appeal to the current mainstream-loving millenials? that's pretty much exactly why it's a 3-star album

a 3-star album with some nearly-5-star songs maybe, but still a 3-star album more or less

FoolofaTook
12-18-2014, 11:31 AM
wut u been smoking?

a no star record with no star songs is more like it

Butt Pope
12-18-2014, 11:48 AM
He's so full of it when he says he doesn't give a poo poo if the pumpkins are just viewed as a classic band now. That's all he's complained about since 2007.

juliana
12-18-2014, 12:16 PM
This interview is why I love billy.

Also in the notes the guy says that it was more amusing in person than on paper, i think he means he was laughing.

New Art Rioter
12-18-2014, 12:18 PM
This is the most Corgan-ish interview ever, it's fantastic. I love how utterly appalled he is at the notion that people tell him what he wants to hear

s0ss
12-18-2014, 12:37 PM
You knew it was going to be a good interview when it starts with the interviewer making fun of him for wearing his scarf, a hoodie and a jacked draped over his shoulders.

pavementtune
12-18-2014, 12:40 PM
This is the most Corgan-ish interview ever, it's fantastic. I love how utterly appalled he is at the notion that people tell him what he wants to hear

it really is brilliant. finally a journalist who doesn't shit his pants and keeps asking. the headline alone, and then this

Nobody believes it’s a three-star record. Nobody! OK, these people obviously did, so maybe I shouldn’t be so absolute. But I’ve been in this business for 25 years and there is nobody in it who believes this is a three-star record. Nobody!

Who are we talking about here?

I’ve talked to, like, 500 people in the last fucking four months about the record!

But aren’t they likely to say that to your face?

Oh fuck off! Seriously now … that’s a stupid thing to say.


calling Die Antwoord's Ninja "a prophet" is comedy gold, especially after saying he wants to be invited into the system and trapping himself in "the bad-reviews-bad-for-BUSINESS but I do not give a fuck" spiral

I was watching a Die Antwoord live performance the other day and at one point Ninja’s on the mic and he goes, “Fuck the system, we’re going to build our own fucking system!” And that’s how I feel, and that’s why he’s a fucking prophet.

Araneae
12-18-2014, 12:40 PM
I love the part where he admits that he didn't even read the 3 star reviews he got, but he's convinced he knows exactly what they wrote and that they're wrong.

SpFission
12-18-2014, 12:47 PM
It's not 5/5.

I'd say 3.5/4 stars..which I think is the running average anyway...which is damn good. Guess he only cares about the big irrelevant magazine scores.

pavementtune
12-18-2014, 12:48 PM
It's not 5/5.

I'd say 3.5/4 stars

interesting star system, out of curiosity:
if you give MTAE 3.5/4 - what do you give other SP records?

SpFission
12-18-2014, 12:50 PM
Sorry I meant 3.5-4 out of 5

SpFission
12-18-2014, 12:52 PM
SD 5/5
MCIS 5/5
Adore 4-4.5
machina - 2.5
Gish-4
Zeitgest. 1.5/5

Whicker
12-18-2014, 12:58 PM
This interview is awesome, i wish all of them were like this. No one has the balls to do interviews like this anymore.

pavementtune
12-18-2014, 12:59 PM
After hearing the acoustic versions I wonder if an all-acoustic album might not have been received better. it might sell worse, I don't know, but the songs sure sound better in a not-shiny-pop form.

Araneae
12-18-2014, 01:00 PM
So far only the British interviewers have had the guts to press Billy when he says something questionable.

Araneae
12-18-2014, 01:06 PM
It's not 5/5.

I'd say 3.5/4 stars..which I think is the running average anyway...which is damn good. Guess he only cares about the big irrelevant magazine scores.

When Oceania was released he said they were all completely irrelevant, he said it again recently, and yet he still cares so much. It's bizarre. It's all ego driven and some deeply seeded idea that he has had every accomplishment taken from him. Sometimes I do worry about what's going to happen to him, he says he's in a good place but that's obviously not enough for him. In some ways I understand, he sees himself as an artist first and foremost, but this paranoia and persecution complex isn't going to lead to a good place. I wonder if he's even honest about how good of a place he's in, because he can certainly fake it, he has done it again and again.

But he even complained about 7/10 reviews. He truly does believe it's a 5/5 or 10/10 album. He shows clear signs of confirmation bias when he says that he met 500 people who loved the album, so it must mean everyone else is wrong. MTAE is a good album but it's certainly not a great album. And the people who now view SD and MCIS as classics are not the same people who wrote the reviews in the 90s, it's the 90s kids who are now deciding those albums are important.

pavementtune
12-18-2014, 01:11 PM
So far only the British interviewers have had the guts to press Billy when he says something questionable.
and the German ones, although in a less charming way. I mean I don't blame all these Chicago podcast and blogger types, they are happy to have a chance to talk to him and receive an album copy, but in terms of reading these interviews it's completely useless.

The exploding boy
12-18-2014, 01:24 PM
More self destruction. Unless everyone someday goes around calling him a music legend and genius he will never be satisfied.


I mean even the fans believe it's at best a 3 star record.

Araneae
12-18-2014, 01:25 PM
and the German ones, although in a less charming way. I mean I don't blame all these Chicago podcast and blogger types, they are happy to have a chance to talk to him and receive an album copy, but in terms of reading these interviews it's completely useless.

Chicago used to be more like that, until a tribune reporter got barred from Billy's show. Then a sackless writer wrote a fucking dumb article in the Tribune defending Billy over his Siddhartha thing (it was so fucking stupid, the author even tried to make a dumb parallel to a Neil Young concert, which didn't make any fucking sense). Now everyone's walking on eggshells.

True (about blogger types) and with the way things work now, most of them are too afraid to say anything out of fear for being blacklisted. There's just too many bloggers out there so the power has shifted. It's all flattery and nicey-nice, with Billy saying, "I'm glad to still be here" (something he, perhaps unknowingly, admitted was a farce).

juliana
12-18-2014, 01:36 PM
When is billy corgan going to go on doctor phil?

MyOneAndOnly
12-18-2014, 01:41 PM
The album is the worst Solo record Bill has ever released, and by far the worst album released under the SP banner. The guitar work and riffs are good, but squandered by the brevity of most of the songs. The lyrics are abominable. Even embarrassing. As if bill has very little to say. And the thin content of those lyrics only rehashes the same overused trope that's plagued him since 2008. Its the "luvaaah" curse, where almost all of the songs are simple exclamations of affection for his current girlfriend. At least the last album, while far from 5 out of 5 stars, displayed a more varied and interesting set of lyrical content.

Nowhere on this album do I hear even an attempt at an epic rock song. This record is vapid pop with forgettable, uninspired lyrics dressed up guitar riffs and an excessive use of vintage synths for no apparent reason. The production, guitar tones, etc. are all good, but it doesn't sound like a cohesive LP. It reminds me in some ways of the unevenness of an old Bowie album, but without any of the highs. Imagine Peter Gabriel, instead of lending Bowie some quality songs, had instead provided him with a few melodies, half written lyrics and made it up with a B- grade major label producer.

I thought I would like this record. I had hope after a couple of songs were released. But the more I listen to it the more I wish half the tracks have been left in studio. the whole thing feels too much like he stretched too much to meet an obligation in his new contract with the label.

2 stars

Bobbyrain
12-18-2014, 01:42 PM
If he is so obsessed with ratings maybe he should have someone help him chose the rights songs for the records. Like Zwan, if he just had put that togheter right it could have been a classic I think. So many grays songs put away. And I still love that record... And with MCIS. For me a double is great but If he had made just on disc with the best on it, that would also be a 5 star record. To me it is but to the average listener i may be to long and strange.

houseofglass11
12-18-2014, 01:47 PM
SD 5/5
MCIS 5/5
Adore 4-4.5
machina - 2.5
Gish-4
Zeitgest. 1.5/5

Your ratings are null and void when you can't even put them in the right order.

This is more accurate:
Gish - 4.5
SD - 5
Pisces - 5
MCIS - 5
TAFH - 4
Adore - 4
Machina I & II - 3.8
Zwan - 3
FutureEmbrace - 3
Zeitgeist - 3
Oceania - 3
Monuments - 3

GLOWer
12-18-2014, 01:51 PM
he should just hire every reviewer who gave him a less than 5/5 review to council song selection on D4N. maybe then he'll win the approval he so seeks.

and i really, really hope D4N isn't monuments 2. if he really wants to properly contextualize Mon. and have it reevaluated, he needs to show us the full picture. we need the softer songs. the longer songs. the instrumentals.

MyOneAndOnly
12-18-2014, 01:54 PM
Gish - 4
SD - 5
Pisces - 3
MCIS - 5
Adore - 4
Machina I - 3.5
Machina II - 2.5
MSOTS - 3.5
FutureEmbrace - 4
Zeitgeist - 3
Rose March EP - 3
TBK Eps and singles - 2
Oceania - 3.5
Monuments - 2

juliana
12-18-2014, 01:56 PM
Billy should start giving star ratings to interviewers.

houseofglass11
12-18-2014, 02:07 PM
Pisces a 3? Yeah right. STFU scotty.

reprise85
12-18-2014, 02:27 PM
Gish - 3.5
SD - 5
Pisces - 5
MCIS - 5
Adore - 4
Machina I - 3.75
Machina II - 4
MSOTS - 3.5
FutureEmbrace - 3.5
Zeitgeist - 3
Rose March EP - dont remember
TBK Eps and singles - 2.5
Oceania - 3
Monuments - 2.75

FoolofaTook
12-18-2014, 02:37 PM
Gish - 5
SD - 5
Pisces - 5
MCIS - 10
Adore - 5
Machina - 5
Machina II - 5

Ram27
12-18-2014, 03:31 PM
http://i.imgur.com/gnXi2.gif

That interview is fucking incredible

__

Gish - 4
SD - 5
Pisces - 5
MCIS - 5
Adore - 4
Machina I - 3.75
Machina II - 3.5
MSOTS - 4
Zeitgeist - 2
TBK - 1.5
Oceania - 3
Monuments - 2.55

ninsp
12-18-2014, 03:39 PM
Fantastic interview. Corgan is really...Corgan again. Hope this inspires a better album.

toase
12-18-2014, 03:48 PM
so he's doing drugs again?

ninsp
12-18-2014, 03:49 PM
so he's doing drugs again?

Who knows. He's not making any sense again and seems angrily hell-bent on creating an opus now.

Araneae
12-18-2014, 03:49 PM
I imagine this will be Billy's face while making D4N

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090808145455/villains/images/6/62/Mr_burns.gif

ninsp
12-18-2014, 03:50 PM
I imagine this will be Billy's face while making D4N

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090808145455/villains/images/6/62/Mr_burns.gif

I am so excited for DFN now. He just seems pretty pissed and determined at the moment. We'll see how it goes.

Araneae
12-18-2014, 03:53 PM
I am so excited for DFN now. He just seems pretty pissed and determined at the moment. We'll see how it goes.

I'm going to stay cautiously optimistic. I've been a fan for a long time and I've seen Billy like this before and nothing much changes, he just retreats further into his obsessions and paranoia. I'll have even less hope if he keeps Howard around.

topleybird
12-18-2014, 04:01 PM
There is like a 1% chance Billy had the faintest idea who Ninja was when he got up on stage with them; like, I don't think I've ever read a single interview with him where he didn't dodge a direct question about what music is good or bad or even existent these days

Does anyone here honestly think he has listened to the entirety of even a single song recorded after his adolescence, because, let me tell you

DaveKShape
12-18-2014, 04:02 PM
None of you should have hope for DFN. It's going to come out and be nothing like anything Billy has been saying so far. And his "new mood" or whatever won't affect anything either. Expect some more lukewarm shit that he says is getting the "best reception since MCIS!"

Shadaloo
12-18-2014, 04:08 PM
I kind of wonder if this interview happened right after he looked at sales figures for the week.

Gish - 3.5
SD - 5
Pisces - 4
MCIS - 5
Aeroplane - 4
Adore - 4.5
Machina I - 3.5
Machina II - 4
MSOTS - 3
TFE - 2.5
ZG - 2
TBK - 1.5
Oceania - 2.5
MTAE - 2

freshfacedyouth
12-18-2014, 04:14 PM
"i purposely dumbed down my music for monuments"

"why isn't it getting 10 out of 10s?"

topleybird
12-18-2014, 04:15 PM
Okay I finished reading

I thought the whole "It has never and won't ever occur to me that the people around me tell me what I want to hear" thing up front would be the most depressing thing in the article -- and I mean, honest to God, that when I read that I sat here feeling just unbelievably sad for him, like, in anyone else I'd think that was an astonishing lack of self-awareness but he's been in way too much therapy and woo-woo spiritualism for this not to be an idea that he just consciously refuses to consider, like he wakes up every morning having to forcefully slam the door shut on that possibility all over again



But then I got to the astrology section, the astrology section, the fucking astrology section

...so why not accept that bodies that are made of 75% water would be influenced by the gravity of the stars?

:hanging:

pavementtune
12-18-2014, 04:15 PM
I kind of wonder if this interview happened right after he looked at sales figures for the week.


he couldn't have seen the sales, that interview is from London, December 5.

None of you should have hope for DFN. It's going to come out and be nothing like anything Billy has been saying so far. And his "new mood" or whatever won't affect anything either. Expect some more lukewarm shit that he says is getting the "best reception since MCIS!"
I expect a Manson guesting on one song.
seriously though I expect nothing - not nothing as in nothing worth listening to, but nothing specific. because as you say - it doesn't matter what anyone said about it so far, the album isn't even recorded yet.

freshfacedyouth
12-18-2014, 04:17 PM
It has been fun. But I only have time for one last question. You recently had a heated exchange with Anderson Cooper (8) and ended up selling “Fuck You Anderson Cooper” T-shirts ...

Oh fuck, here we go. What paper is this for again?

haha

Araneae
12-18-2014, 04:20 PM
I thought the whole "It has never and won't ever occur to me that the people around me tell me what I want to hear" thing up front would be the most depressing thing in the article -- and I mean, honest to God, that when I read that I sat here feeling just unbelievably sad for him, like, in anyone else I'd think that was an astonishing lack of self-awareness but he's been in way too much therapy and woo-woo spiritualism for this not to be an idea that he just consciously refuses to consider, like he wakes up every morning having to forcefully slam the door shut on that possibility all over again


Me too.

Billy has cut people out of his life whom he feels "betrayed" him or "don't get" him, so it's amazing to see this complete lack of self-awareness on his part or, as you say, something he completely refuses to even consider. His hyper-sensitivity alone makes it difficult for anyone to say much of anything to him.

Shadaloo
12-18-2014, 04:24 PM
he couldn't have seen the sales, that interview is from London, December 5.

Jesus. I can only imagine his reaction once he does, ain't gonna be pretty. Nexus updates should be really interesting once all the promotion and shows wind down.

amoergosum
12-18-2014, 04:28 PM
LOL >>>

If this record had five-star reviews across the board, you would be feeling calmer right now?

No, you’ve misunderstood.

But you said earlier that you …

I’m not on trial here, OK? I’m not on trial.

FoolofaTook
12-18-2014, 05:01 PM
imagine talking to someone like that

you would want to slap them

amoergosum
12-18-2014, 05:07 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/USu_BYTz8cA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The exploding boy
12-18-2014, 05:23 PM
Eh i'll try my hand at this too. Probably will get bitched by someone but it's all subjective

Gish - 2.5 (i don't even know really, i don't like psychedelic rock at all.. so im not in good position to judge fairly)
SD - 4 (<---most likely to get shit on for not rating Sd as perfect)
Pisces - 3
MCIS - 5 (technically not even perfect, but if you remove the few meh songs and replace them by the good bsides, yeah, anyway nobody could ever pull a 28 songs record and have all the songs be great, if you've got half that are great you succeeded in my book)
Adore - 4
Machina I - 3.5
Machina II - 3
MSOTS - I dont even know. I listened to it only once and didn't care.
FutureEmbrace - 3
Zeitgeist - 1 (maybe 0.5 actually)
Oceania - 2
Monuments - 2.5


You're right billy, this isn't a 3 stars album, its' a 2 and a half.

MTAE
12-18-2014, 05:26 PM
That was some good shit.

Ramdust
12-18-2014, 05:27 PM
Ugh. Every time I think Billy can't be more of a dick, or that his ego couldn't be any larger, he outdoes himself. Anyone would agree SP were a pillar of alternative rock in the 90s. How much more credit does he want for those albums? They were on top of the world from 93-96. WTF.

smashingschnauz
12-18-2014, 05:27 PM
Kind of amazed that some of the people on this board really don't like the music Billy makes much.

The exploding boy
12-18-2014, 05:30 PM
Billy clearly sees himself as a legendary figure in rock. He wants the credit a Bowie or a Neil Young gets. He wants people to mention Zeppelin and Pink Floyd and Pumpkins in the same breath.

AveryLoren
12-18-2014, 05:30 PM
Gish - 4.5
SD - 5
Pisces - 4
MCIS - 5
TAFH - 4.5
Adore - 4
Machina I - 4
Machina II - 4
MSOTS - 3.5
TheFutureEmbrace - 4
Zeitgeist - 4
American Gothic - 4
Songs for a Sailor - 3
The Solstice Bare - 3
Oceania - 2.5
Monuments - 1.5

SpFission
12-18-2014, 05:32 PM
Gish: 3.99
SD: 5
PI: 4
MCIS: 5
Adore: 4.2
Machina: 2.3
Machina II: 3.5
MSOTS: 2.9
TFE: 2.6
Zeitgeist: 1.9
Oceania: 3.3
Monuments: 3.9

AveryLoren
12-18-2014, 05:34 PM
Kind of amazed that some of the people on this board really don't like the music Billy makes much.

I was thinking the same thing.

SpFission
12-18-2014, 05:34 PM
Some of you ranking Zeitgeist above a 3 are sickos

smashingschnauz
12-18-2014, 05:35 PM
Billy clearly sees himself as a legendary figure in rock. He wants the credit a Bowie or a Neil Young gets. He wants people to mention Zeppelin and Pink Floyd and Pumpkins in the same breath.

For some of us mentioning him in the same breathe as those bands would be just fine. I like his music better than Floyd or Zep and I really like both as well. I've had my Floyd and Zep stages but they didn't last as long as the Pumpkin stage.

The exploding boy
12-18-2014, 05:40 PM
Kind of amazed that some of the people on this board really don't like the music Billy makes much.

Personally speaking, I would have rated the records better in 2001. I stopped listening to SP for like 12 years. Like completely. I don't even know why i started posting on the SP forum here again. But it's kinda good. It's helping me come to terms with my past as a SP fan (For some years they were THE band to me), so to speak. I think for some reason i felt ashamed for some years for ever liking them. I DO feel ashamed for ever liking billy as a person though.....he's terrible. Although sometimes he says things that make some sense and that i find myself agreeing with. But it's usually all self-serving. but yeah. I hadn't really cared about SP though i had given a listen to oceania and Zeitgeist for the first time about a year ago.

But i would not count myself as a SP fan anymore. I put these ratings trying to put myself back in the frame of mind i was back then more than anything. Like i don't know if without the nostalgia factor and the fact it was such a big part of my past, i'm not sure how i'd feel about SP if i discovered them now. I have a feeling i may not care. But i don't know. hard to tell.


And yes...technically i do like SP more than Zeppelin or Pink Floyd or even Bowie. But i'm not stupid enough to think his impact on rock music is the same as these artists.

smashingschnauz
12-18-2014, 05:42 PM
Who do you like now out of curiosity? Who do you listen to the most?

Araneae
12-18-2014, 05:42 PM
For some of us mentioning him in the same breathe as those bands would be just fine. I like his music better than Floyd or Zep and I really like both as well. I've had my Floyd and Zep stages but they didn't last as long as the Pumpkin stage.

Your personal tastes don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. That's like me saying the Smashing Pumpkins/Billy Corgan are greater than Jimi Hendrix just because I enjoy their music more. That line of thinking completely ignores the innovation and influential impact that Jimi has had on music. Same thing with Zep. That band completely changed the musical landscape and chances are SP wouldn't even exist without them. It's just a matter of giving credit where credit is due.

smashingschnauz
12-18-2014, 05:44 PM
OH, I agree there are others obviously with more impact. I was talking about my musical tastes. I know he hasn't had that type of impact.

cardiac
12-18-2014, 06:22 PM
This interview. I don't even. The infamous Gaultier-interview from 2000 has nothing on this shit.

And I’m telling you what I actually meant, which is that if I’d gotten the reward for the work I did during this generation that you love so much – the 90s – then maybe I wouldn’t be looking for it now.

I mean this is just insane. If mainstream recognition is what he wants, he got plenty of Grammy-nods from Siamese Dream onwards and even won a couple. Not to mention selling a fuckton of records, playing with Pink Floyd, Bowie etc. He had everything one could possibly get out of being in a rock band.

Surely Brad Wilk and Brad Stoermer are having second thoughts about associating themselves with this fucking nutjob. The whole MTAE promo campaign has been a string of Billy rants and bitching about not getting his due. This is getting embarrassing.

reprise85
12-18-2014, 06:23 PM
i feel bad for him.

juliana
12-18-2014, 06:54 PM
If you dont like billy for being a nut job, get out.

SpFission
12-18-2014, 07:28 PM
Yeah welcome to 1994

Araneae
12-18-2014, 07:36 PM
Not quite. This is more reminiscent of Machina era Billy.

slunken
12-18-2014, 07:41 PM
Not quite. This is more reminiscent of Machina era Billy.

the themes and mentality and persona of BC from every single original album reissue has coincided directly with BC's attitude towards SP2 and what he hopes to accomplish etc

slunken
12-18-2014, 07:42 PM
like he tried to ride the ride again but realized it's not the great the second time around

The Pump King
12-18-2014, 07:59 PM
Not that anyone cares, but I'd rate BC comfortably alongside any single pop/rock songwriter to ever live. His creative output from 1992-1995 (Siamese Dream/MCIS/AFH) is unparalleled. Billy at his most prolific peak period was amazing.

There have been other bands to match or exceed that 3-year output (Beatles from 1966-1969 and The Smiths from 1984-1987 are two notable examples) but their output was always shared (Lennon/McCartney and Morrissey/Marr).

As far as a 1 man creative force, Noel Gallagher came pretty close (1993-1996). But who else?

slunken
12-18-2014, 08:00 PM
The Beatles, The Smiths, and Oasis eh?

slunken
12-18-2014, 08:01 PM
What other contenders do we have? I saw Led Zep, Hendrix, and Neil Young being bandied about.

slunken
12-18-2014, 08:02 PM
Who do you think puts on a better live show pink floyd or the flaming lips

slunken
12-18-2014, 08:03 PM
stp > the doors

The Pump King
12-18-2014, 08:05 PM
You having an aneurysm, brah?

slunken
12-18-2014, 08:09 PM
I was just answering your question. Happy to help, that's my motto.

reprise85
12-18-2014, 08:14 PM
the themes and mentality and persona of BC from every single original album reissue has coincided directly with BC's attitude towards SP2 and what he hopes to accomplish etc

So for the next one he should get pissed at the record company and put out the best album he's made in years for free on the internet? Sounds good to me.

slunken
12-18-2014, 08:20 PM
So for the next one he should get pissed at the record company and put out the best album he's made in years for free on the internet? Sounds good to me.

well he was making mtae while doing the adore reissue so i figure that would bleed into the machina era reissue with dfn mirroring late 1998-late 2000. for the reissues we are definitely post-adore so that puts as at mid-to-late 1998 already you see?

everything he has said in interviews leading up to the announcement of breaking up the band in 99-00 is pretty much what he's saying now ie - it may or may not be the end of the band but its the end of sp as you know it and i know it etc

the first time around he just broke up the band and everyone is expecting big changes after dfn

Araneae
12-18-2014, 08:24 PM
the themes and mentality and persona of BC from every single original album reissue has coincided directly with BC's attitude towards SP2 and what he hopes to accomplish etc

Hmm…now that you put it that way it makes sense. It'll be interesting to see what we get with D4N and if he's really serious about putting an end to SP again.

I kept thinking of the "rudest man in rock" interview he did with Q. It's like he's in character mode again.

slunken
12-18-2014, 08:25 PM
So for the next one he should get pissed at the record company and put out the best album he's made in years for free on the internet? Sounds good to me.

maybe would be a good time to sit back and release all this other stuff we've been hearing about - pre-gish demos on vinyl? hello?

slunken
12-18-2014, 08:27 PM
hello?

/really banking on this reference

juliana
12-18-2014, 08:31 PM
I like how billy is so upset in the article about the old guard and gatekeepers but he totally put gatekeepers in the fan community. I mean he even called them gatekeepers. Was it an experiment?

Araneae
12-18-2014, 08:33 PM
Is Billy's "hello?" a new thing? I don't remember him ever uttering it so frequently or ever for that matter. He's starting to sound like a teenage girl.

Dogfighter28
12-18-2014, 08:34 PM
Gish - 3
SD - 5
PI - 3.5
MCIS - 5
TAFH - 4
Adore - 4.5
Machina - 3.5
Machina II - 2.5
MSOTS - 3
TFE - 2
Zeitgeist - 1.5
TGBK - 0.5
Oceania - 2.5
Monuments - 1.5

:(

The Pump King
12-18-2014, 08:35 PM
Better than Oi!

MyOneAndOnly
12-18-2014, 08:35 PM
A 25 year old genius artist with a big mouth is forgiveable and can even be enduring. A 50 year old spent pop star with no new ideas running his mouth every chance he gets is just an annoying dick.

juliana
12-18-2014, 08:35 PM
@araneae

Who do you think he hangs with? Airplane mode is aging!

MyOneAndOnly
12-18-2014, 08:39 PM
I had some hope for him in 2011 and 2012. He seemed cool with the line up. When Oceania came out he seemed at times in interviews to have kept the album and impact in a kind off modest perspective. I got the impression though that he soured on it all when there was no acclaim for his effort on the album.

Araneae
12-18-2014, 08:40 PM
@araneae

Who do you think he hangs with? Airplane mode is aging!

oh yeah, I forgot about that. Certain personality types do often take on their partners traits. It's like he's a different person with every girlfriend he has. It's exhausting. I wouldn't be surprised if his obsession and gauging of what millennials want to hear is based on her.

juliana
12-18-2014, 08:41 PM
I would rather have billy telling everyone to fuck off than kissing brian solis' ass.

juliana
12-18-2014, 08:42 PM
oh yeah, I forgot about that. Certain personality types do often take on their partners traits. It's like he's a different person with every girlfriend he has. It's exhausting. I wouldn't be surprised if his obsession and gauging of what millennials want to hear is based on her.

Why isn't her dad dressing him? He got better for this tour but still!

Araneae
12-18-2014, 08:42 PM
I'm pretty sure that whole Brian Solis thing was Kerry's idea.

juliana
12-18-2014, 08:45 PM
It wasn't kerry it was someone else but regarless I mean, this is so "IN THE EYE OF A JACKAL I SAY KABOOM" billy, I mean, I love this! Not another yawner interview.

Araneae
12-18-2014, 08:51 PM
I just don't see it. This is just typical Billy at this point. He says the same things to varying degree in every interview, this one is just slightly crazier solely because of the interviewer pushing him.

juliana
12-18-2014, 09:00 PM
Ya, I like it, people in the comments did too. Which I was surprised about. Some found it refreshingly honest, brilliantly nutty.

smashingschnauz
12-18-2014, 09:10 PM
I guess Billy ended up wanting that honey after all.:cool:

Araneae
12-18-2014, 09:10 PM
I didn't enjoy watching him self-implode during the machina era and I certainly don't enjoy it now. There's a fine line between genius and insanity and there's a fine line between honesty and shock value; I feel like wrestling Billy comes out every now and then to conduct these interviews.

toase
12-18-2014, 09:12 PM
It looks like he really needs a hug

*come here lil billy, you are the great*

Dogfighter28
12-18-2014, 09:13 PM
He looks like a hamster

juliana
12-18-2014, 09:14 PM
I guess Billy ended up wanting that honey after all.:cool:

I didn't enjoy watching him self-implode during the machina era and I certainly don't enjoy it now. There's a fine line between genius and insanity and there's a fine line between honesty and shock value; I feel like wrestling Billy comes out every now and then to conduct these interviews.

It looks like he really needs a hug

*come here lil billy, you are the great*

.

juliana
12-18-2014, 09:15 PM
I love this interview!

The exploding boy
12-18-2014, 09:35 PM
A 25 year old genius artist with a big mouth is forgiveable and can even be enduring. A 50 year old spent pop star with no new ideas running his mouth every chance he gets is just an annoying dick.

endearing.

But yes to this.

juliana
12-18-2014, 09:39 PM
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3ujqoc6Rzuw/maxresdefault.jpg

slunken
12-18-2014, 10:18 PM
yea great interview. nice to see him breaking down his own fourth wall.
can't wait to read his book. one thing he's never talked about besides sharon osbourne is management, i suspect theres a lot to that that isn't publically figured.

what is BC's mangement history from say sharon/post-sharon to now?

Maera
12-18-2014, 11:15 PM
didn't seem to go great…. didn't really say a lot. I don't think he liked the guys questions

Dogfighter28
12-18-2014, 11:17 PM
o i c

juliana
12-19-2014, 12:01 AM
Manson tweeted about the article. I cant embed with my phone.

@marilynmanson: http://t.co/4KnDyaBucj #smashingpumpkins Good to see a man that is the Alfred Hitchcock of rock, treat NEWSPAPERS like THE BIRDS. Shite.

reprise85
12-19-2014, 12:06 AM
treat newspapers like the birds eh

Elphenor
12-19-2014, 12:19 AM
Holy shit he really did flip out

The exploding boy
12-19-2014, 01:10 AM
I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,

I strike on to something fresh, fans are going fucking nuts, everyone’s excited,
.

The exploding boy
12-19-2014, 01:11 AM
listen to the resounding sound of fans going fucking nuts. I can't hear myself type on this forum most days now

The exploding boy
12-19-2014, 01:13 AM
Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

Seriously. You’re basically saying that I’m willing to be coddled. Do I seem like someone who wants to be coddled?

.

The exploding boy
12-19-2014, 01:13 AM
^
yes.

Catherine Wheel
12-19-2014, 01:26 AM
This is as bad as the Rudest Man In Rock interview from the Machina era. Maybe even worse. Very embarrassing.

Mo
12-19-2014, 02:06 AM
So, Billy believes the Earth is 75% water?!

juliana
12-19-2014, 02:45 AM
People are mostly water.

The exploding boy
12-19-2014, 02:51 AM
just saw foo fighters on fallon and i thought it was really lame how despite them having a string section nobody before or after mentioned how indebted they were to Corgan for coming up with the idea of strings in alt rock. No wonder he's pissed all the time. I would be too. Would it have been so hard for Grohl to thank Corgan? And they say he's a nice guy...

Shallowed
12-19-2014, 02:57 AM
Strings in "alt rock" is not an original idea.

Shallowed
12-19-2014, 02:59 AM
nor is it an original idea in rock alternative

Araneae
12-19-2014, 02:59 AM
He was just poking fun at Billy. Billy said in a recent interview that he feels it's unfair that he's not credited for introducing strings into alt rock music in the 90s.

pavementtune
12-19-2014, 03:03 AM
one thing he's never talked about besides sharon osbourne is management, i suspect theres a lot to that that isn't publically figured.

what is BC's mangement history from say sharon/post-sharon to now?

no idea about the whole management debacle, but it's been the high and mighty Prospect Park/Peter Katsis for several years now. backstreets back, ALRIGHT!

Shallowed
12-19-2014, 03:13 AM
He was just poking fun at Billy. Billy said in a recent interview that he feels it's unfair that he's not credited for introducing strings into alt rock music in the 90s.

Oh god.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BNsrK6P9QvI/hqdefault.jpg

Araneae
12-19-2014, 03:20 AM
To clarify, Billy did acknowledge his awareness that strings had been used in rock music, but he contends that he was the first in the 90s to reintroduce it when everyone else was playing hard rock music…he of course neglected to mention November Rain came out before Tonight, Tonight.

fuzzyroes
12-19-2014, 07:13 AM
Pretty crazy interview. 3 stars really isn't even all that bad... I could see if he was getting 1 or 2 stars from everyone then he might have a reason to be ticked off.

It's hard to understand why he would even give a fuck at this point.. I mean, the guys work is still appreciated, he still receives radio-play and can go on successful tours.

It's not like he's some washed up artist like Everclear or Collective Soul or something.

Ram27
12-19-2014, 08:00 AM
Hummer sounded shitty with the cello

ninsp
12-19-2014, 10:16 AM
Pretty crazy interview. 3 stars really isn't even all that bad... I could see if he was getting 1 or 2 stars from everyone then he might have a reason to be ticked off.

It's hard to understand why he would even give a fuck at this point.. I mean, the guys work is still appreciated, he still receives radio-play and can go on successful tours.

It's not like he's some washed up artist like Everclear or Collective Soul or something.

This is what puzzles me. Who cares, Billy?

Syrial Carpens
12-19-2014, 12:16 PM
Is Billy's "hello?" a new thing? I don't remember him ever uttering it so frequently or ever for that matter. He's starting to sound like a teenage girl.

I'd like to think that he's channeling Herman Edwards.

But your teenage girl assessment is probably more accurate.

themadcaplaughs
12-19-2014, 12:25 PM
The rudest man in rock interview was embarrassing back in the day, but at least that was general griping. This is even more cringe-worthy because he's whining about how much credit he deserves for an album that really is pretty mediocre.

I dug Zeitgeist enough when it came out, and there a still a few songs on it that I still listen to fairly regularly. Teargarden was fairly uneven, but the high points on it I really enjoyed, and I at lest felt I knew where Billy was coming from with the garage rock/psychedelic vibe. I thought Oceania was pretty boring, but there are two songs I really enjoyed, and it least sounded like a real band playing again.

After listening to the singles that were released and previewing the album on iTunes, Monuments has the distinction of being the first Billy Corgan work I do not plan on buying. Everything about it was disappointing and forgettable.

Phoenix Down
12-19-2014, 03:06 PM
What's wrong with this guy? The whining is unbearable.

"I haven’t even read the reviews. I don’t even know what they said! But I’ve heard it all before – do this, do that, reform your band, play Siamese Dream, etc … it’s all a bunch of bullshit."

This in combination with

"then here I am all these years later making a Smashing Pumpkins record that sounds a lot like Smashing Pumpkins "

is absolutely killing me.

This man clearly has a completely different understanding of classic pumpkins than me. I think of Porcelina or Hummer….not of the pop songs. Oh well.

s0ss
12-19-2014, 03:08 PM
This man clearly has a completely different understanding of classic pumpkins than me. I think of Porcelina or Hummer….not of the pop songs. Oh well.

But all his hits are pop songs.

Phoenix Down
12-19-2014, 03:14 PM
But all his hits are pop songs.

All hits are pop songs by definition. That's not my point.

BloodstainedJar
12-19-2014, 03:45 PM
I was reading this article and I thought it was a joke at first. Somehow, Corgan can still surprise me with his asshat antics. No one thinks it's a three star record, Bill? Maybe you're right. They may have been being too kind and they really think it's a two star record. I'd say it's probably a 2.5 star record if I'm being honest, because while there are some good songs, there aren't enough of them. If you're only going to put 9 songs on your album, then they'd all better be good songs, and three or four of these tracks are pretty hard to sit through.

Seriously, Billy... just stop doing interviews. With ANYONE.

s0ss
12-19-2014, 04:09 PM
All hits are pop songs by definition. That's not my point.

It's Billy's point.

juliana
12-19-2014, 04:10 PM
Isn't this interview after a show? I remember being told he doesn't eat till after shows because he is really nervous. Maybe he is just bitchy cause he is hungry. Have you seen those you're not you when you are hungry candy bar commercials? Billy would be great in that commercial!

Also, this anger for feeling like he has been treated like shit has inspired a lot of good songs. I mean isn't this interview pretty much bwbw?

juliana
12-19-2014, 04:13 PM
Billy gotta billy

s0ss
12-19-2014, 04:44 PM
Can we fact check if MCIS and Siamese Dream had shitty reviews in the 90s?

juliana
12-19-2014, 04:56 PM
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/siamese-dream-19930916

houseofglass11
12-19-2014, 04:58 PM
Come on now, you remember the story about Jim DeRogatis of the Sun Times giving Siamese Dream a bad review and calling BC's lyrics "sophomoric"? Billy banned him from any SP shows and sent him a fax telling him he was fat and to die. And then the guy reviewed the show from a lawn chair near the door where he could hear the whole show.

In conclusion, Bill was still Bill even back in 93'.

juliana
12-19-2014, 05:02 PM
http://web.archive.org/web/20070618034708/http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/record_review/21809-mellon-collie-and-the-infinite-sadness

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/mellon-collie-and-the-infinite-sadness-19951130

juliana
12-19-2014, 05:03 PM
Come on now, you remember the story about Jim DeRogatis of the Sun Times giving Siamese Dream a bad review and calling BC's lyrics "sophomoric"? Billy banned him from any SP shows and sent him a fax telling him he was fat and to die. And then the guy reviewed the show from a lawn chair near the door where he could hear the whole show.

In conclusion, Bill was still Bill even back in 93'.

And the reviews were the same.

Araneae
12-19-2014, 05:08 PM
All I remember from the original SD reviews is them being compared to Nirvana. Some thought they lived up to the expectations of being the next big thing, while others did not. You can argue it was unfair, but that was pretty much the barometer at which they were being measured at, as were most other bands at the time. The point is that he still did get a lot of good reviews, but Billy seems to not be happy unless he's getting all good reviews. It's just the way he is.

MTAE
12-19-2014, 05:16 PM
So Rolling Stone gave Siamese Dream a 3.5? That's just bullshit and everyone knows it.

juliana
12-19-2014, 05:18 PM
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/siamese-dream-19930916

http://web.archive.org/web/20070618034708/http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/record_review/21809-mellon-collie-and-the-infinite-sadness

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/mellon-collie-and-the-infinite-sadness-19951130


Back in the day


Sd
3.5 rolling stone

Mcis
3 rolling stone
6.8 pitchfork

Araneae
12-19-2014, 05:18 PM
You have to understand that the people reviewing at the time were from a completely different generation and grew up listening to very different music. They even gave Nirvana poor reviews.

juliana
12-19-2014, 05:22 PM
I don't read reviews of movies and music etc because I find I don't typically agree with reviewers

Araneae
12-19-2014, 05:29 PM
I don't read reviews of movies and music etc because I find I don't typically agree with reviewers

I read a lot of critique literature and I don't think I've ever come across any critic that I've agreed with completely or even mostly, but I do appreciate the way that some of the better critics can help me look at a piece of work in a completely different perspective. That's why I find it so valuable. That and the fact that I think critique is a very important and yet now constantly vilified aspect of art. Some of the greatest champions of artists have been critics, they can be tough but sometimes it's out of a desire to see an artist be at their best. Think of it as a form of checks and balances.

houseofglass11
12-19-2014, 05:33 PM
I can see how at the time there would be Nirvana comparisons with Siamese Dream. While SD has more advanced arrangements and guitar playing, Nirvana beat them to the punch as far as the wall of guitar/density thing goes with Nevermind. Having the same producer also affected that. The guitar on Gish was very Hendrixy/Jane's Addiction tonewise which had to do with the setup Billy was using on that record.

That one L7 record from 92' or 93' that Butch Vig also produced has the same big muff guitar sound as Siamese Dream pretty much.

juliana
12-19-2014, 05:39 PM
I read a lot of critique literature and I don't think I've ever come across any critic that I've agreed with completely or even mostly, but I do appreciate the way that some of the better critics can help me look at a piece of work in a completely different perspective. That's why I find it so valuable. That and the fact that I think critique is a very important and yet now constantly vilified aspect of art. Some of the greatest champions of artists have been critics, they can be tough but sometimes it's out of a desire to see an artist be at their best. Think of it as a form of checks and balances.

If I read critiques, it is after I form an opinion. However, I am able to understand I have personal biases. Meaning, some stuff I love I know isn't that great.

Araneae
12-19-2014, 05:47 PM
If I read critiques, it is after I form an opinion. However, I am able to understand I have personal biases. Meaning, some stuff I love I know isn't that great.

I do both, but I generally read them after I've viewed whatever is being critiqued as well. It's just more valuable to me that way and then I can go back see/hear/read the work in a different context. I find critiques usually help me if I'm on the fence about something, it's usually something (a book, a show, etc) I'm not familiar with. I think everyone has those personal biases, I know I certainly do, but the important thing is to recognize them, I think. I love plenty of stuff that any reasonable and intelligent person would openly deride me for.

juliana
12-19-2014, 05:51 PM
Yes, exactly.

I wish corgan had a more healthy view of them but I mean billy gotta billy.

houseofglass11
12-19-2014, 05:54 PM
Music reviews are so subjective that I could never agree with them completely. Everyone is hearing with a different set of ears and personal biases. Araneae, you pretty much summed it up when you say that reviews can help us look at a work in a different light. But I disagree about critics wanting to see an artist at their best. An artist can think they've done great work and still get panned like Billy with MTAE. The artists perspective is so different to that of a critic. The critic doesn't necessarily understand the artists motivations because they aren't in their shoes living the life they live. For them to think that they know what move an artist should have made better than the artist themselves is a fallacy. A lot of modern reviews play out like hit pieces and personal attacks, and I can see how Billy takes issue with that.

Araneae
12-19-2014, 06:20 PM
It's supposed to be a different perspective, that's the beauty of it and where its importance lies. They write things that perhaps the people too closely involved in the project or the people around the artist may have ignored or completely overlooked.

But I'm not just talking about music here either, I'm talking about art critics in general. You don't have to live in the artist's shoes or understand their motivations to assess whether or not a piece of work gets its message across/is successful. You really don't have to relate to an artist personally to understand their work. I don't have to live during 19th century Paris and know Parisian life to understand Chopin's music, I don't have to experience what Frida Kahlo endured to understand her work, and so on. That's the beauty of art, it transcends time and borders. If a piece of work is successful then it stands on its own, the critic can merely highlight things that the untrained eye or ear might miss.

Nevertheless, there have been many instances in which critics have championed artists by promoting their work (when others ignored them) or sought to establish their prominence in art through time (by writing books, essays, establishing funds, etc). Museum and gallery critics are a great example of critics who seek to promote and champion artists.

Billy is a completely different animal. He already admitted to not reading the reviews. He just thinks he deserves a perfect rating because of a mixture of past accomplishments and frustrations, that's all it comes down to for him. Some critics can be harsh but there has also been some fair criticism as well. The key is to filter out what criticism is valuable and what isn't.

Araneae
12-19-2014, 06:22 PM
Yes, exactly.

I wish corgan had a more healthy view of them but I mean billy gotta billy.

I don't think there's any hope of that happening. Billy's still trying to convince people that wrestling is a high art form and he loves comparing it to Shakespeare. He can't possibly admit to himself that he enjoys a lowbrow form of entertainment, so he tries to build it up into something greater. It's okay to love wrestling, I'm sure it fulfils some deep primal need for some people, but it ain't fucking Shakespeare.

houseofglass11
12-19-2014, 06:30 PM
Of course you don't have to be the artist to understand their work. But whatever it was that influenced the artist to create the piece they did, whatever happened in their life that influenced them, the critic can't really understand those motivations. I take issue with reviewers who act as though they could have done the piece better than the artist themselves, whether it's music or a painting or whatever. There is often a lack of respect from critics to the hard work and toil that an artist has put into their creation.

It's simple in that something is either good or it isn't. But it's still worth something to the artist who created it even if it's not to you.

Araneae
12-19-2014, 06:37 PM
But they don't act like they could do better. I think people often misinterpret critique for that, it's the whole automatic defensiveness that kicks. To use a sports analogy, you don't need to be a great basketball player to be a great coach; actually most great coaches were awful players. Critique is really just an analysis that sets up a framework for discourse. Rarely do good critics ever simply say, "this sucks," "this is bad," "this is good," they tend to highlight what works and what doesn't work.

juliana
12-19-2014, 06:52 PM
My critique of billy corgan is that he is more controversial in his interviews than his albums. I think he has almost has nothing to say when he makes his music but has way too much to say with in those interviews.

I don't know why he limits his speech on the albums and not in interviews.

Araneae
12-19-2014, 06:59 PM
That's a fair point. Almost every professional MTAE review I read mentioned his lyrics as a low point...and he can do better, we've seen it. But he's already on the defensive about that as well, so I'll be surprised if he spends more time crafting his words for D4N.

juliana
12-19-2014, 07:24 PM
It is strange but I love the repetitive pulled back lyrics, because he set out to do it. But his prior album was not intended to be as superficial as it came across. It was supposed to be this great album of love or whatever. So this album makes it seem like he got worse.

Also, he never goes far enough with his themes or ideas anymore. Or his execution is just wrong or not good enough.

mellon_c0llie
12-19-2014, 07:52 PM
Possible conversation circa 1999.
Billy: "I don't need you James, I don't need anyone. I write the hits!"

James: "Oh yeah? Bet you can't write #1 album without us"

Araneae
12-19-2014, 07:53 PM
It is strange but I love the repetitive pulled back lyrics, because he set out to do it. But his prior album was not intended to be as superficial as it came across. It was supposed to be this great album of love or whatever. So this album makes it seem like he got worse.

Also, he never goes far enough with his themes or ideas anymore. Or his execution is just wrong or not good enough.

I would give him for more leeway if he were trying out the writing style just for this album and if it actually propelled the message or feeling he was trying to convey in some way (i.e. minimalism or isolation), but we know it isn't the case given his recent work. If he's gonna strip down the lyrics then each line has to be that much stronger, concise, and rhythmic in its repetition to make it effective. From what he has said, he really didn't put much effort at all into his lyrics, and this is where Billy's pretentiousness kicks in. He calls it stream of consciousness style but anyone who is familiar with and studied the stream of consciousness narrative style knows that isn't what he's doing at all. It's just him trying to pseudo-intellectualize it because he seems to think everyone else is an idiot.

juliana
12-19-2014, 07:54 PM
^

Shallowed
12-19-2014, 08:21 PM
Possible conversation circa 1999.
Billy: "I don't need you James, I don't need anyone. I write the hits!"

James: "Oh yeah? Bet you can't write #1 album without us"

I think James would be more like "Yeah, whatever..."

juliana
12-19-2014, 08:29 PM
James would have already have left the room, just as billy started talking. Bill would only realize after he finished rambling for a half hour that he was talking to himself.


"FUCK YOU IHA".

Phoenix Down
12-19-2014, 08:38 PM
It's Billy's point.

So you're just being difficult, but still basically agreeing with what I said in my first post.

Phoenix Down
12-19-2014, 08:44 PM
If I read critiques, it is after I form an opinion. However, I am able to understand I have personal biases. Meaning, some stuff I love I know isn't that great.

That's bullshit. Surely you don't just read them for your amusement, but because you think there's something gained from a professional critique. Don't act like it doesn't mean anything.

s0ss
12-19-2014, 09:06 PM
That's bullshit. Surely you don't just read them for your amusement, but because you think there's something gained from a professional critique. Don't act like it doesn't mean anything.

It's the lure of affirmation I guess. I like it and I hope the cool kids like what I like.

juliana
12-19-2014, 09:25 PM
Um no, araneae explained exactly what I mean.

I honestly don't know what you are calling bullshit on or what about what I said bothered you so much, lol.

Complete bullshit, cause I don't consume media the way you do.

Phoenix Down
12-19-2014, 10:23 PM
Um no, araneae explained exactly what I mean.

I honestly don't know what you are calling bullshit on or what about what I said bothered you so much, lol.

Complete bullshit, cause I don't consume media the way you do.

How do you know how I consume media? You don't have the slightest idea who I am and what I actually know about the business.

Nothing bothered me much, you just sounded a bit like Billy: "I acknowledge critics but their view is ultimately worthless." As someone above me already mentioned, GOOD critics know what they are doing and playing down their impact on you seems questionable. You are reading them, after all.
This reminds me on a interview from the 90s where Billy said that going online (most likely referring to Netphoria back then) was like listening to what the cool kids at school had to say about you. Its interesting that he's still plagued by the same demon – fitting in with the cool crowd. The irony obviously being that his most loyal fans liked the band precisely for the reason they didn't fit in.

lionheart0
12-19-2014, 10:30 PM
Green Day was just nominated for the rock and roll hall of fame weren't they? If I was Bill I'd be pissed they were and the Pumpkins weren't.

houseofglass11
12-19-2014, 10:31 PM
Billy already said he doesn't care about the RnR HoF. He said it's not for him to decide.

The exploding boy
12-19-2014, 10:37 PM
They can't be yet. It has to be 25 years since your first record. It will be 25 years since the first Green Day record came out by the time the ceremony happens.

Actually i just verified to make sure that would truly be the case even by months and days, the induction is april 18th. 39 smooth by GD was released april 13th 1990.

The exploding boy
12-19-2014, 10:37 PM
next year they will be eligible. Unless Gish was released after april which it might have been... or maye the months don't matter....just the year.

Phoenix Down
12-19-2014, 10:41 PM
Billy already said he doesn't care about the RnR HoF. He said it's not for him to decide.

And you surely believe him, especially after this interview.

juliana
12-19-2014, 11:15 PM
How do you know how I consume media? You don't have the slightest idea who I am and what I actually know about the business.

Nothing bothered me much, you just sounded a bit like Billy: "I acknowledge critics but their view is ultimately worthless." As someone above me already mentioned, GOOD critics know what they are doing and playing down their impact on you seems questionable. You are reading them, after all.
This reminds me on a interview from the 90s where Billy said that going online (most likely referring to Netphoria back then) was like listening to what the cool kids at school had to say about you. Its interesting that he's still plagued by the same demon – fitting in with the cool crowd. The irony obviously being that his most loyal fans liked the band precisely for the reason they didn't fit in.

How do I know you consume media?
What I said reminded you of billy?

This is a troll right?

TuralyonW3
12-19-2014, 11:53 PM
My critique of billy corgan is that he is more controversial in his interviews than his albums. I think he has almost has nothing to say when he makes his music but has way too much to say with in those interviews.

I don't know why he limits his speech on the albums and not in interviews.

Good point.

Shallowed
12-20-2014, 12:22 AM
Yeah that is a good point

A good example would be a song like Drum and Fife, which Billy has said is dedicated to troops fighting overseas, but no-one seems to have had that impression from the song.

fuzzyroes
12-20-2014, 05:10 AM
Monuments is Corgans best work since Zwan... And I'd say Monuments is a lot more consistent than Zwan. Zwan had higher highs, but also a ton of shit... I can see why he's a little frustrated.

I think the problem is that the albums just too short... You have 9 songs and 2 are absolute shit and the others all range from pretty good- great... It's hard to justify an album with 3 great songs and 4 pretty good songs as anything higher than a 3.5.

What's Corgan even bitching about though. Oceania got fucking rave reviews... And frankly I thought those were undeserved. So it sorta equals out lol.

Phoenix Down
12-20-2014, 07:52 AM
How do I know you consume media?
What I said reminded you of billy?

This is a troll right?

You can't even read, can you? Who the fuck are you anyway.

croPUMPKINS
12-20-2014, 08:27 AM
I mean...How much lower can one get!?

sure Billy made great music, that was underestimated primarely by the fans who hoped for another MCIS or Siamese, instead of listening to that album objectivly, Zeitgeist era...

but ongoing braging about not getting 5 stars, yet claiming you don't care...only to say 'I want to be let inside'!?

wtf Bill?

gotta accept by now Bill your cup of coffee might not be someone else'.

Ram27
12-20-2014, 09:29 AM
Zwan had higher highs, but also a ton of shit...

....nah.

Elphenor
12-20-2014, 10:54 AM
Zwan was a good band, not SP good, but see we don't have to compare these two totally unlike things when Billy uses a different name

Butt Pope
12-20-2014, 12:01 PM
Zwan was better than anything SP 2007 - today. I don't know why this would even be a debate.

Ram27
12-20-2014, 12:59 PM
exactly.

Replace every instance of the phrase 'post-2000' with the phrase 'post-2003'

themadcaplaughs
12-20-2014, 03:42 PM
Billy already said he doesn't care about the RnR HoF. He said it's not for him to decide.

I can guarantee you 100% that Billy cares more about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame than just about anything else.

Elphenor
12-20-2014, 03:53 PM
Oh yeah, he wants that so bad

slunken
12-20-2014, 06:04 PM
Yeah that is a good point

A good example would be a song like Drum and Fife, which Billy has said is dedicated to troops fighting overseas, but no-one seems to have had that impression from the song.

i thought he had said it wsa about soliders that return home from war and have to deal with not being at war anymore. kind of like the latter half of the machina mystery "no more war and no more soldiers"

#reissueconspiracy

slunken
12-20-2014, 06:05 PM
i will bang this drum till medallion day

slunken
12-20-2014, 06:06 PM
he wants those awards u guys

Spira|_
12-21-2014, 10:52 PM
Gish - 3.5
SD - 4.5
PI - 4
MCIS - 5
TAFH - 3.5
Adore - 4
Machina - 4
Machina II - 4
MSOTS - 3
TFE - 3
Zeitgeist - 1
TGBK - 1
Oceania - 1
Monuments - 1.5

Shallowed
12-21-2014, 10:54 PM
i thought he had said it wsa about soliders that return home from war and have to deal with not being at war anymore. kind of like the latter half of the machina mystery "no more war and no more soldiers"

#reissueconspiracy

Well whatever it's about, hardly anyone made the connection.

Spira|_
12-21-2014, 11:13 PM
Monuments is Corgans best work since Zwan... And I'd say Monuments is a lot more consistent than Zwan. Zwan had higher highs, but also a ton of shit... I can see why he's a little frustrated.

I think the problem is that the albums just too short... You have 9 songs and 2 are absolute shit and the others all range from pretty good- great... It's hard to justify an album with 3 great songs and 4 pretty good songs as anything higher than a 3.5.

What's Corgan even bitching about though. Oceania got fucking rave reviews... And frankly I thought those were undeserved. So it sorta equals out lol.

Wtf guys, there arent great songs on Monuments.

Think about this: if all SP albums were at Monuments level, this board wouldnt even exist.

Spira|_
12-22-2014, 09:28 AM
Gish - 3.5
SD - 4.5
PI - 4
MCIS - 5
TAFH - 3.5
Adore - 4
Machina - 4
Machina II - 4
MSOTS - 3
TFE - 3
Zeitgeist - 1
TGBK - 1
Oceania - 1
Monuments - 1.5

After some days of abstinence I am back to listen to Monuments again to check if it grow on me
...Maybe I should change Monuments to "1".
This is boring as shit. I cannot really like even 1 song.

juliana
12-22-2014, 10:34 AM
Adore was 3.5 stars too via rolling stone http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/adore-19980518

I honestly think I would be in a pissy mood if I were billy too.
Sd 3.5, mcis 3, adore 3.5.

I would feel like there is a glass ceiling.

ninsp
12-22-2014, 10:35 AM
After some days of abstinence I am back to listen to Monuments again to check if it grow on me
...Maybe I should change Monuments to "1".
This is boring as shit. I cannot really like even 1 song.

You're boring as shit.

lonelytowers
12-24-2014, 03:18 PM
Adore was 3.5 stars too via rolling stone http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/adore-19980518

I honestly think I would be in a pissy mood if I were billy too.
Sd 3.5, mcis 3, adore 3.5.

I would feel like there is a glass ceiling.

Here's the full Rolling Stone list:

SD - 3.5
PI - 3
MCIS - 3
TAFH - 4
Adore - 3.5
Machina - 3.5
Zeitgeist - 4
Oceania - 3
Monuments - 3

killtrocity
12-24-2014, 04:50 PM
I feel alright tonight (x8)

WE are young (x32)

kissing a girl like you (x???)


This is the big problem with Monuments. The hooks are catchy as fuck, the instrumentation is somewhat intricate. If you don't like Tiberius then you probably haven't liked anything besides SD or MCIS

Elphenor
12-25-2014, 12:10 AM
I don't like Tiberius everything on Oceania was better

mojo
12-27-2014, 06:27 PM
it's why he can't resist having a go at Radiohead every now and then - he's convinced that the critics ("fuckers with beards from New York' or something like that) give them glowing reviews regardless, just as they give him middling reviews regardless. Even allowing for his paranoia, I'm not sure that's true, Thom Yorke's last effort got it's fair share of three star reviews...

mojo
12-27-2014, 06:29 PM
Zwan was better than anything SP 2007 .

This.

teh b0lly!!1
03-18-2015, 01:24 PM
i just found another total meltdown trainwreck of an interview
it's quite amusing really

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/dec/18/billy-corgan-smashing-pumpkins-interview

teh b0lly!!1
03-18-2015, 01:50 PM
oh yeah.... sorry about that

Ram27
03-18-2015, 07:12 PM
>not using the search function
>2015

Jelly Blossom
03-18-2015, 11:05 PM
Billy is such an egotistical moron.

People will never say about Troll that “This is a fucking brilliant album from a brilliant artist.”

If Billy started writing brilliant songs with brilliant lyrics then yes, critics would indeed call any album he put out to be brilliant. And dare I say, would even call him brilliant.

The problem is that he's too overconfident and content with his work. It's been well documented that he's an egomaniac and if we've learned anything about the his work ethic when it comes to writing songs it's that he doesn't put any effort into what he's doing, especially when it comes to his lyric writing. That's why we get songs with such shittly lyrics like "One and All", "Tiberius" and the hilariously offensive "Anti-Hero".

Belly doesn't have the talent or ability to write a lyrically complex song like the Stones' "Sympathy for the Devil" or Third Eye Blind's "Motorcycle Drive-By". Those are brilliant songs by brilliant artists.

Belly can't even write something that makes effective/creative use of metaphors like Depeche Mode's "Enjoy the Silence".

Instead, we just get songs with superfluous titles and nonsensical lyrics and he wonders why they aren't championed as coming from a brilliant artist.

juliana
03-18-2015, 11:34 PM
Billy = lots of talent & no taste.

Trotskilicious
03-19-2015, 12:10 AM
he wants those awards u guys

bill be like that could be ME getting interrupted by kanye west

Trotskilicious
03-19-2015, 12:10 AM
that would be a hilariously explosive encounter