View Full Version : post punk revival tiers


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Catherine Wheel
12-06-2014, 05:34 PM
Just for fun come up with a tier system for post punk revival bands

1st tier: Interpol, The National, Editors
2nd tier: White Lies, Franz Ferdinand, Bloc Party, The Walkmen, The Stills, Savages, The Drums, We Are Scientists
3rd tier: The Cinematics, Moving Units, The Rapture, Hot Hot Heat, The Soft Moon, French Kicks, The Bravery

slunken
12-06-2014, 06:09 PM
tiers based on your own theory of popularity as opposed to actual chronology i assume?

slunken
12-06-2014, 06:11 PM
if you aren't chronological you aren't shit. otherwise you end up with eric clapton and robert johnson and kid rock on the same playlist.

Catherine Wheel
12-06-2014, 06:18 PM
My tier system is based on quality. The National are much less popular than Interpol or Editors.

slunken
12-06-2014, 06:22 PM
ah, quality.

Shallowed
12-06-2014, 06:48 PM
This is a third tier CW thread

The exploding boy
12-06-2014, 06:50 PM
man The Rapture sucked. Whatever happened to them?

Mals Marola
12-06-2014, 06:57 PM
interpol, franz, bloc & hot hot were my faves from that group, but then again i never really listened to the others

editors sound like they would be in whatever tier bravery'd be in, and i didn't even know the national were a supposed "post-punk revival" act, i always just hear the name being mentioned

Catherine Wheel
12-06-2014, 07:04 PM
I forgot about the Bravery. Without a doubt they would be third tier. Fucking awful.

The Drums would probably be second tier. Forgot about them too.

TuralyonW3
12-06-2014, 07:50 PM
ugh early 2000s pitchfork darling pukemash

reprise85
12-06-2014, 07:51 PM
i like the bravery's the sun and the the moon album. it's pretty good, i like last track quite a bit.

Mals Marola
12-06-2014, 08:08 PM
i liked the singles

& oh yeah surely the killers fit into this somewhere, huh?

Trotskilicious
12-06-2014, 08:18 PM
ugh early 2000s pitchfork darling pukemash

So this

Catherine Wheel
12-06-2014, 08:18 PM
Only really the first Killers album and that's just with some songs. Maybe a little more than half. So I'm not really counting them.

Mals Marola
12-06-2014, 08:22 PM
only really mentioned 'em cos that old bravery single (honest mistake) kind of reminded me of 'em

only ever heard hot fuss anyway

Catherine Wheel
12-06-2014, 08:26 PM
The Killers are like White Lies in that they kind of had an identity crisis. Both bands wanted to be synth pop and post punk too. But White Lies never totally abandoned their post punk sound like the Killers.

null123
12-06-2014, 09:04 PM
Fuck all these bands except Franz Fwrdinand

Mals Marola
12-06-2014, 09:07 PM
if you're gonna keep franz, might as well keep interpol & bloc, huh?

that's what i'm doing anyway

stell-a-huh!

null123
12-06-2014, 09:13 PM
I guess

The exploding boy
12-06-2014, 09:34 PM
Interpol would have been a lot better with a good lyricist. That's always where they fell short to me. Like if Turn on the bright lights only had lyrics to match the music...but it didn't. And yet that's probably their strongest one lyrically so you know...

Catherine Wheel
12-06-2014, 10:00 PM
"One day we'll live together. And life will be better. I have it here, yeah in my mind." The New

I love that line. But yeah those kind of lyrics were pretty rare on that album.

The exploding boy
12-06-2014, 10:07 PM
I mean one of the best song musically on TOTBL to me is Hands Away.

Lyrics:

Will you put my hands away?
Will you be my man?
Serve it up, don't wait
Let's see about this ham.

Oh, what happened?

Home spun desperation's knowing
Inside your cover's always blown



LETS SEE ABOUT THIS HAM!?


Roland is silly but i kinda like but it could you know...have done a lot better with not silly lyrics. Maybe i expect too much earnestness form lyricists, i don't know.

Catherine Wheel
12-06-2014, 10:11 PM
Hands Away is an amazing song. It kind of has the same feel of Untitled to me. Very atmospheric and haunting and almost surreal.

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 02:55 AM
Interpol is soooooooo boring. Same with The National. It's like listening to nothing.

Let's cut out everything exciting and challenging about post-punk and just leave the non-rock mentality.

Tier 1: Savages, Franz Ferdinand
Tier 2: Arctic Monkeys, Art Brut
Tier 3: The Libertines, The Strokes

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 02:59 AM
As a whole I think Arctic Monkey's debut album is the best and most complete post-punk revival album, but Franz and Savages write more exciting music

Catherine Wheel
12-07-2014, 03:14 AM
Savages can be great at times but their album is too inconsistent in quality. White Lies and Interpol and the Walkmen are the post punk bands I find myself listening to the most. The Walkmen are very underrated.

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 03:21 AM
Ive never listened to The Walkmen honestly so idk

Catherine Wheel
12-07-2014, 03:28 AM
The singer has a voice similar to Bob Dylan. Musically they sound like very early U2 and Echo and the Bunnymen.

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 03:49 AM
It's seems TOO revival to name your band that

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 03:49 AM
Seems like what an 80's cover band would name themselves

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 03:56 AM
Automatic Win
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Np6z6o3iVUQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The bassline is pretty much Joy Division's Colony but still

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 04:11 AM
i had a fight with most of the board over whether or not they were a gimmick

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 04:12 AM
they are not and i love them

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 04:15 AM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/kim-REn8ecg?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

their meticulousness is undeniable

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 04:17 AM
there's a moment when a band starts making noise where i just think "this is heaven" and they're in my heart forever

null123
12-07-2014, 04:21 AM
I had a really good streak going where I didn't know what arctic monkeys sounded like or what music they even really played and sadly it was broken this year
Almost as bad as when I finally found out what Homestuck is

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 04:35 AM
arctic monkeys are so bland i don't get it

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 04:36 AM
:(

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 04:38 AM
It has to do with the Alex Turner's word flurry delivery

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Urw780t52zc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 04:40 AM
Like it's literary rock music delivered with a smirk and swagger

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 04:54 AM
yeah it's called being a smug hipster

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 04:54 AM
i mean morrissey smug hipsterism is just more preferrable

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 04:54 AM
look at that face is that not hialrious? everyuone else get fucked

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 05:00 AM
It's called making smart cool

Which is like the whole point of post-punk to me

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 05:01 AM
Those big glasses were for nerds until Moz put them on and now boom every cool kid is rocking them

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 05:04 AM
fuck you and whatever "cool" is

punk rock forever

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 05:04 AM
morrissey is not cool he just convinced half of white people that he was with the sheer power of will

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 05:05 AM
morrissey is a mentally ill person who, if he was just your pal and not a world famous singer, you'd worry about and maybe even disown

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 05:06 AM
like billy cogran for example

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 05:07 AM
Morrissey is really fucking cool even apparently to all these bro's in SD

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 05:08 AM
For whatever reason Latinos here think he's the bees knees

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 05:14 AM
he's an absolute asshole, he's not cool in any shape of the term

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 05:15 AM
and his popularity with latinos is hilarious because he is homosexual but he also is just oozing machismo so it's one half of one thing and one half of the other

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 05:27 AM
assholes are cool if they can make a living off of it

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 05:28 AM
Just like being a junkie becomes romanticized when said junkie is raking it in

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 06:00 AM
yeah that's what makes being cool so stupid

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 06:01 AM
morrissey is the kind of guy that would bum a ride from you because he's shit faced and on the ride home tell you about what a piece of shit you are

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 06:09 AM
I think life is meaningless and stupid and I want to be dead anyway. The only thing that can matter is the art you create

Drug fueled rockstars are a living symbol of that philosophy and that's why they're cool

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 06:11 AM
You can't sit there and tell me Lou Reed isn't cool

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 06:29 AM
they're living the extreme of the white bourgeoisie consumer lifestyle

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 06:36 AM
Sid Vicious is the best example of this that I can think of

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 06:50 AM
sid vicious was the record label's man

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 06:54 AM
You have more punk cred than me for sure

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 06:55 AM
I have a difficult time explaining what "cool" is, but you just know it when you see it and hear it.

It's an art in itself

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 07:14 AM
it's bullshit and anyone even claiming punk rock should spit after saying the word

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 07:14 AM
cool is basically another word for being good looking

Mals Marola
12-07-2014, 07:15 AM
moral of the story is, throw as many "word flurries" cool woo hip hop wickity WACK look at me i'm wearin shades in DOORS shit as you want into it arctic monkeys still blo

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 07:26 AM
Arctic Monkeys are pretty great musically too. If it's not your thing then okay

null123
12-07-2014, 08:10 AM
my secret is that I have the song snap out of it in my main spotify playlist

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 08:19 AM
This is hip-hop for spoiled posh white scum like me.

Lyrics are about being rejected entrance to a club and then like reflecting on it and stuff

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JTSaUYSyvqI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

null123
12-07-2014, 08:23 AM
Stop emulating trots' sadsack white guilt routine it's really goofy

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 08:24 AM
It was a joke

null123
12-07-2014, 08:27 AM
Well then for future reference

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 08:33 AM
But part of the reason I feel such a personal connection to bands like AM and like The Strokes is that they're well to do guys doing an emulation of post-punk

They're not The Fall but I totally get where they're coming from

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 08:49 AM
Also, The Strokes are still awesome and "Welcome to Japan" is their best song.

null123
12-07-2014, 09:09 AM
Room on Fire era Strokes was my first concert
Special place in my heart for them

The exploding boy
12-07-2014, 11:57 AM
I had a really good streak going where I didn't know what arctic monkeys sounded like or what music they even really played and sadly it was broken this year
Almost as bad as when I finally found out what Homestuck is

yeah i still couldn't identify a song. If i heard one, id dint know. I should probably check them out just to form an opinion.

The exploding boy
12-07-2014, 12:07 PM
The strokes had one good record.

Also the libertines aren't really post punk are they? My gf is a huge fan, she's hung out with Carl Barat a few times and he even wore a jacket she made on Letterman. I dunno why i mention it, just cause i desperately want some second degree coolness to rub off on me i guess. Also might as well randomly mention she sang on stage with Joe Strummer and there's even a picture to prove it.

I on the other hand have never met anyone cool. Just people who have.

pavementtune
12-07-2014, 12:07 PM
Almost as bad as when I finally found out what Homestuck is

do I want to google "Homestuck" because I have no idea if you mean the band or??

the Libertines are rock, I don't know why anyone would need to label them any further.

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 02:57 PM
Stop emulating trots' sadsack white guilt routine it's really goofy

yeah you're right i should probably just defend white guys

Catherine Wheel
12-07-2014, 03:16 PM
The new We Are Scientists album is awesome. Their best since Love and Squalor.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p6yJ0_TvZDU

Mals Marola
12-07-2014, 05:15 PM
the Libertines are rock, I don't know why anyone would need to label them any further.

this is how i feel about the strokes

in what way are they "post punk revival" their influences are like television, new york dolls & shit if you want to go that route

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 05:22 PM
Yeah, but Television is like VU in that they were hugely influential to post-punk so of course you hear Television.

Strokes guitars are very 80's and then you have the dance punk drums and even the vocal effect they use is reminiscent of post-punk

Mals Marola
12-07-2014, 05:24 PM
oh i wasn't opening a debate just saying they're actually just not post-punk revival at all
sorry, i'll be more clear next time

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 05:27 PM
The Strokes could not possibly be more post-punk revival. I mean c'mon

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dPDfaTzBcb4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 06:15 PM
I'd just like to point out that saying a band is "Rock" literally tells you nothing about them.

Both The Cure and Journey are "Rock bands" but there is a massive difference.

I stand by Libertines being post-punk they play with a sloppy power chord garage style but with a little more melody and less rage.

And the drums do the Pop tick pop tick pop tick pop tick pop tick relentless 4/4 dance beat

pavementtune
12-07-2014, 06:41 PM
Both The Cure and Journey are "Rock bands" but there is a massive difference.


no shit, that would have never crossed my mind, all this time I was thinking they are basically the same.


I'd just like to point out that saying a band is "Rock" literally tells you nothing about them.


I'd like to point out that listening to any piece of music will tell you more than any of your "sloppy power chord post punk" gibberish.

by all means, go on and label music as much as you want to, and add some of your experienced evalutaion to it ("gnr most boring band ever" "no one but us (meaning people born after 1990) understood and appreciated Joey Ramone more") - but do you expect to be taken seriously by anyone older than yourself? No? good, because you won't.

null123
12-07-2014, 06:54 PM
yeah you're right i should probably just defend white guys

could there be a third option. I wonder...

null123
12-07-2014, 06:56 PM
Post punk is just whatever music elphenor likes. Hope that helps

pavementtune
12-07-2014, 07:02 PM
Post punk is just whatever music elphenor likes. Hope that helps

now I'm even more confused - post punk or post punk revival?
or garage rock revival?

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 07:52 PM
could there be a third option. I wonder...

yeah i could not care like most of the other white guys and you know what i'll just do that then you'll say i'm part of it. No matter what I do, I can't win.

why do you always have some kind of problem with shit that I do, why is it always specifically me?

null123
12-07-2014, 08:38 PM
Probably seems that way cause you make 80% of the posts

null123
12-07-2014, 08:39 PM
I will stop now though

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 08:47 PM
i just want to know what you think my options are

what if i said it under an alt that had no apparent color or gender?

just don't give me this race traitor stuff i figured you'd be above that

null123
12-07-2014, 08:59 PM
lol race traitor stuff

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 09:11 PM
edit: don't care

slunken
12-07-2014, 09:20 PM
at least you believe in the trancendental qualities of friendship

slunken
12-07-2014, 09:21 PM
_______________
Shadowland

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 09:24 PM
I've thufferd it patthively for awhile, thith ith the firtht time I'm finally letting the bombth drop.

The exploding boy
12-07-2014, 09:28 PM
edit: cared but then it's charmbag

.

null123
12-07-2014, 10:04 PM
The exploding boy I don't think you have a good grasp of the dynamics of this board

null123
12-07-2014, 10:29 PM
salute ze white race or suffer ze consequence!!

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 10:44 PM
well if you're a white male don't say anything basically, that'll help the most.

null123
12-07-2014, 11:00 PM
I think you should say what you want but I feel like it's one thing to discuss your opinion of racial politics, it's another to go around self-flagellating all the time or talking about how white people = bad, it just seems embarrassing and pretty tone deaf to me

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 11:34 PM
you know what fuck it

i can't win at all, even my progressiveness is regressive as per you

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 11:42 PM
no shit, that would have never crossed my mind, all this time I was thinking they are basically the same.



I'd like to point out that listening to any piece of music will tell you more than any of your "sloppy power chord post punk" gibberish.

by all means, go on and label music as much as you want to, and add some of your experienced evalutaion to it ("gnr most boring band ever" "no one but us (meaning people born after 1990) understood and appreciated Joey Ramone more") - but do you expect to be taken seriously by anyone older than yourself? No? good, because you won't.

:erm:

Sub Genres and such are used to describe bands to someone who hasn't listened to them. You don't have to like them, but they are useful in a lot of situations where "Rock" is useful in pretty much zero.

They are considered a part of both the post-punk revival and the garage rock revival by practically every critic that's written about them. They sound like jagged garage post-punk because that's what they are.

Look, you may not have been around when say, The Beatles were, but you can still read a fuckton about them and even know more than the people who were around.

We don't do this with other art. "Oh you weren't around when The Great Gatsby was written it doesn't matter that you've read it twelve times nobody takes you seriously"

Trotskilicious
12-07-2014, 11:46 PM
okay guy

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 11:49 PM
Seriously though

Elphenor
12-07-2014, 11:51 PM
The whole point is no one thinks The Cure and Journey sound the same what's with the "no shit" sarcasm

Trotskilicious
12-08-2014, 12:00 AM
the whole point was that you sound like an absolute tit

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 12:03 AM
Look what happens when you google The Libertines genres

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=the+libertines+genres

Wow, what a shocker

Trotskilicious
12-08-2014, 12:14 AM
that wasn't the point, what is wrong with you

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 12:22 AM
If where you accept musical opinions from has some arbitrary age cut-off then don't take my word for it

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 12:29 AM
"These bands are post-punk"

"No they're Rock"

"Well obviously they're rock but so is Bon Jovi"

"WELL YOU'RE YOUNGER THAN ME"

Seriously, I'm butthurt about this

Trotskilicious
12-08-2014, 01:23 AM
it's almost as if you can't read

Mals Marola
12-08-2014, 03:11 AM
was i the one being called in to question for the rock game bc i didn't say that
just say they weren't exactly "post-punk revival," but i certainly don't care enough about the matter to engage in heated debate on it! i'm certainly not gonna change my opinion about it but i mean if someone's going to argue it than well, that's their pot2stew n

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 11:26 AM
I made my tier list and then you people tried to tell me that Libertines and Strokes aren't post-punk and that's really dumb

darby
12-08-2014, 11:42 AM
this is how i feel about the strokes

in what way are they "post punk revival" their influences are like television, new york dolls & shit if you want to go that route

lol

darby
12-08-2014, 11:43 AM
this whole thread is a mess

Mals Marola
12-08-2014, 12:54 PM
I made my tier list and then you people tried to tell me that Libertines and Strokes aren't post-punk and that's really dumb

this reminds me of how charmbag said post-punk = music you like and if nowhere else it's hilarious how true it is here

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 01:38 PM
That's simply not true. U2 is post-punk and I hate U2.

Again, if you don't trust my opinion google The Strokes. I can only imagine that you've simply never listened to them.

The exploding boy
12-08-2014, 02:46 PM
Strokes is more garage rock than post punk but i would agree they have some post punkishness about them or at least some songs. I don't hear it in Libertines though.

The exploding boy
12-08-2014, 02:50 PM
In the end, especially nowadays, nobody really knows what to label a lot of bands anymore so basically you should just not be worried that much about it. I mean i don't necessarily take wikipedia or google's opinion on genres to be 100% right.

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 02:55 PM
Then when I make a list of my favorite post-punk revival groups don't come in here and tell me that they aren't post-punk

slunken
12-08-2014, 04:48 PM
Cool more arbitrary lines in the sand

fuzzyroes
12-08-2014, 05:57 PM
I made my tier list and then you people tried to tell me that Libertines and Strokes aren't post-punk and that's really dumb

The strokes aren't post-punk. They're retro-revival :banging:

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 06:04 PM
reohgo;werhw;rnwfnr;er

Trotskilicious
12-08-2014, 06:08 PM
i've already explained to him that "retro-revival" is redundant and a very stupid thing to say but he persists in using it

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 06:12 PM
Revival Revival

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 06:13 PM
Or is he saying like a revival of the revival of bands like VU

Also known as Post-Punk

slunken
12-08-2014, 06:18 PM
it beats shopping at hollister.

slunken
12-08-2014, 06:18 PM
punk rock mindset

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 09:37 PM
There needs to be a full on flamboyant, completely indulgent, B-movie Gothic post-punk revival enough of boring ass shit like Interpol

Mals Marola
12-08-2014, 09:39 PM
That's simply not true. U2 is post-punk and I hate U2.

Again, if you don't trust my opinion google The Strokes. I can only imagine that you've simply never listened to them.

uh, i've had the first three albums since high school

only record i haven't heard is angles, listened to comeback machine once or twice

calling them "post-punk" anything is like calling weezer joy division revivalists

labels don't really matter but clearly there's at least some weight in those names, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist

Cool more arbitrary lines in the sand

it's not lines in the sand so much as a group of people sittin next to the atlantic ocean and someone tellin you they're by the pacific

Elphenor
12-08-2014, 09:45 PM
There's seriously no way you can listen to comedown machine and not be like "Holy shit this is so 80's post-punk".

The Strokes know they're post-punk revival and it's on purpose and that's why they named the album "80's Comedown Machine" and all the songs sound like a garage band playing 80's hits

I'm Hardcore
12-09-2014, 12:37 AM
i'm with Mals Marola on this one

Mals Marola
12-09-2014, 02:41 AM
There's seriously no way you can listen to comedown machine and not be like "Holy shit this is so 80's post-punk".

The Strokes know they're post-punk revival and it's on purpose and that's why they named the album "80's Comedown Machine" and all the songs sound like a garage band playing 80's hits

i listened to comedown machine and thought it sounded more like miami vice music (in a good way) than any post-punk

then again i'm starting to realize post-punk does not simply equate to music you like, just music from the 80s

it is all beginning to make sense!

Catherine Wheel
12-09-2014, 02:44 AM
Comedown Machine is new wave but not really post punk. It's kind of the sound the Killers were going for at first.

Mals Marola
12-09-2014, 02:46 AM
they're just the strokes, anyway

do you really think bands sit down and go "hey let's bring post-punk back!" because if so fuck you (the people in those bands) and fuck yer band

Cool As Ice Cream
12-09-2014, 03:28 AM
post-retro-post-post-punk

Cool As Ice Cream
12-09-2014, 03:28 AM
that's what my band is trying to play

Cool As Ice Cream
12-09-2014, 03:28 AM
we mainly do acoustic nirvana and greenday covers

Shallowed
12-09-2014, 03:29 AM
Most genre names are coined by journalists, not the artists that pioneer them. At the time they'll usually try to distance themselves from those labels, until some time later when they just give in and accept their legacy.

Cool As Ice Cream
12-09-2014, 03:29 AM
we also have one pink! cover but that one is ironic because we're alternative like that

Trotskilicious
12-09-2014, 04:35 AM
Most genre names are coined by journalists, not the artists that pioneer them. At the time they'll usually try to distance themselves from those labels, until some time later when they just give in and accept their legacy.

elph desperately needs that label since he's the generation where people are totally awesome with labels and in fact strict adherence to labels is what makes you cool which is the absolute ultimate currency of your entire existance

they're like millennials but even more superficial

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 09:21 AM
Comedown Machine is new wave but not really post punk. It's kind of the sound the Killers were going for at first.

New Wave IS post-punk

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 09:29 AM
elph desperately needs that label since he's the generation where people are totally awesome with labels and in fact strict adherence to labels is what makes you cool which is the absolute ultimate currency of your entire existance

they're like millennials but even more superficial

It's really as simple as you notice bands coming from the same time, place, and background will tend to share the same influences and thus have similar sounds.

Since it's difficult to describe sound with words, genres are a convenient way of describing things.

I don't NEED the label, but they're certainly useful when talking about music.

Cool As Ice Cream
12-09-2014, 09:30 AM
i only need to labels: "sucks" and "best music ever". that covers it for me.

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 09:37 AM
they're just the strokes, anyway

do you really think bands sit down and go "hey let's bring post-punk back!" because if so fuck you (the people in those bands) and fuck yer band

In their earlier albums no, but they're like me and really love that style of music so they emulated it.

80's comedown machine is totally a conscious effort to be New Wavey

The exploding boy
12-09-2014, 09:41 AM
New Wave IS post-punk

not really. Post punk was a harsher, less commercial/more underground type of sound. New wave, while originally used to pretty much define any music that was new in the early 80's, to an extent when for a while it became pretty much meaningless, is now at least accepted to mean a more commercial and pop sound and probably most likely features some (or a lot of) synths. This is just a kind of more melodic music lot of punk and post punk artists moved towards once they became better musicians hence the link to punk/post punk but i reality you've got artists labeled new wave that have about nothing to do with punk.

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 09:42 AM
The Smiths are New Wave

They're like melodic punk and that's what New Wave is

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 09:47 AM
Seriously what post-punk refers to is the music styles that came up after Punk tore into 70's rock and rewrote the game. Everyone was trying to make the music of the future. Some artists went full experimental like say, TG or Cabaret Voltaire, but other groups reached back to The Beatles and gave us New Wave

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 09:48 AM
Like New Order is post-punk and within post-punk they're New Wave

The exploding boy
12-09-2014, 10:16 AM
The Smiths are New Wave

They're like melodic punk and that's what New Wave is

The smiths would take exception. For one they claim to have no roots in punk (specifically Marr). And Morrissey has said synths (generally a staple of new wave) was the worst thing to happen in music in the 80s.

Also, nobody ever called The Smiths new wave. They're early indie rock/alternative (back before alt came to mean grunge or grungeish)

And while post punk on paper would seem to mean anything that came out of punk, that's simply not the accepted definition. Since you're so keep on googling, wikipedia it.

Cool As Ice Cream
12-09-2014, 10:17 AM
yo dawg i heard you like labels so we labelled all your labels

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 10:31 AM
The smiths would take exception. For one they claim to have no roots in punk (specifically Marr). And Morrissey has said synths (generally a staple of new wave) was the worst thing to happen in music in the 80s.

Also, nobody ever called The Smiths new wave. They're early indie rock/alternative (back before alt came to mean grunge or grungeish)

And while post punk on paper would seem to mean anything that came out of punk, that's simply not the accepted definition. Since you're so keep on googling, wikipedia it.

The Smiths are a bit different in that they don't use synths at all, but they did experiment with electronics and found sounds.

I mean if you want to be even more specific, the bands that don't use synths but are still new wave are called Jangle Pop for the most part.

Moz def has a root in Punk

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 10:33 AM
You can google New Wave and it will have a separate wiki page but in that wiki page it does talk about it belonging to post-punk.

reprise85
12-09-2014, 10:47 AM
You can google New Wave and it will have a separate wiki page but in that wiki page it does talk about it belonging to post-punk.

Well that settles it then.

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 10:49 AM
Hey he told me to wiki it

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 10:52 AM
Post-Punk can basically be re-written as "Dance Punk" and it's what all the sub genres have in common from New Wave, Jangle and Synth Pop, to Goth and industrial

Cool As Ice Cream
12-09-2014, 10:54 AM
what about post-retro-post-post-punk, elphy? am i on the right track?

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 10:57 AM
Please raise your hand and wait to be called on

Mals Marola
12-09-2014, 11:10 AM
let me just say that when i claimed the strokes to not be "post-punk revival" it was not a nitpicky comment meant to put them in a "new wave" box instead, i just said it because they don't sound like joy division or public image ltd.

Mals Marola
12-09-2014, 11:10 AM
& they're not gloomy

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:11 AM
THATS NOT WHAT POST PUNK REFERS TO

Mals Marola
12-09-2014, 11:13 AM
boy you really care about this shit don't you

Mals Marola
12-09-2014, 11:14 AM
they sound more like the rolling stones song "doom & gloom" than any actual doomy, gloomy post-punk music

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1DWiB7ZuLvI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Catherine Wheel
12-09-2014, 11:25 AM
New wave often has nothing to do with post punk. Synth pop is a sub genre of new wave. Synth pop and post punk couldn't be any more different.

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:30 AM
Well "synth" pop is like not a real genre idk

Like 99% of pop uses synthetics.

But bands like Depeche Mode and Soft Cell did it in a Punk way and that's why they're post-punk

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:33 AM
Mals

You're confusing Gothic Post-Punk with all Post-Punk

slunken
12-09-2014, 11:33 AM
Hahaha

Catherine Wheel
12-09-2014, 11:33 AM
Lol at you calling Depeche Mode post punk. You're really reaching there.

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:36 AM
They are though

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:37 AM
I want to know what your definition of post-punk is

The exploding boy
12-09-2014, 11:48 AM
What part does it say new wave belong to post punk? I didn't see anything referring to new wave as a post punk subgenre. they identify them as having similar roots but not as being the same.

The exploding boy
12-09-2014, 11:50 AM
But bands like Depeche Mode and Soft Cell did it in a Punk way and that's why they're post-punk

Ok no just no. Your definition of post punk is literal. To you it means anything that came after punk that might have been inspired by punk aesthetics. That's just not so.

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:52 AM
.

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:53 AM
Ok no just no. Your definition of post punk is literal. To you it means anything that came after punk that might have been inspired by punk aesthetics. That's just not so.

Again, I have to ask what your definition of post-punk is

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:53 AM
Like are Wire and Gang of Four the only post-punk bands?

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:54 AM
It's not about it being after Punk. Like I said, it's "Dance Punk"

slunken
12-09-2014, 11:56 AM
Well "synth" pop is like not a real genre idk

Like 99% of pop uses synthetics.


Let's not overlook this gem

darby
12-09-2014, 11:57 AM
& they're not gloomy

i figured that was your definition of post-punk

there's ~gloomy~ post-punk and then there's ~dancy~ post punk (a la mission of burma, wire, gang of four, magazine). the strokes are the latter

/thread

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 11:58 AM
^^

Fucking exactly

pavementtune
12-09-2014, 12:02 PM
Well "synth" pop is like not a real genre idk

Like 99% of pop uses synthetics.

But bands like Depeche Mode and Soft Cell did it in a Punk way and that's why they're post-punk

what kind of synthetics? that's where you have to draw the line. polyester vs nylon

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 12:07 PM
Haha

I'm done now. Darby covered it

Trotskilicious
12-09-2014, 04:39 PM
Let's not overlook this gem

hahahaha i missed that one

Trotskilicious
12-09-2014, 04:40 PM
The Smiths are New Wave

They're like melodic punk and that's what New Wave is

:rofl:

Trotskilicious
12-09-2014, 04:41 PM
wire isn't dancy unless all you've ever heard are outdoor miner and map ref

wire is definitely gloomy, conceptual, jagged, experimental

Trotskilicious
12-09-2014, 04:42 PM
CHORUS!

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 04:46 PM
Like music wise no The Smiths are not punk at all, they're jangle pop but Moz is much more punk than the typical jangle pop band

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 04:50 PM
My point was that "synth pop" is redundant because Pop generally implies the use of synths

But groups like Depeche and Soft Cell were like dance punk with electronics

Catherine Wheel
12-09-2014, 04:55 PM
If Depeche Mode are post punk then so are Tears for Fears and Culture Club. Post punk isn't accessible and hook filled. Its an offshoot of punk rock. Like exploding boy said its not some all encompassing term for what came after punk rock. It tends to have some punk influences.

slunken
12-09-2014, 04:58 PM
My point was that "synth pop" is redundant because Pop generally implies the use of synths



you skipped like 100 years

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 04:58 PM
I see Depeche as carrying a lot of Punk influence

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 05:00 PM
you skipped like 100 years

ahh, I see what you mean

Trotskilicious
12-09-2014, 05:03 PM
when are you going to shut up about this

Catherine Wheel
12-09-2014, 05:10 PM
Depeche Mode have no punk influences at all. Their peers were Tears For Fears, Culture Club and even Duran Duran at times.

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 05:14 PM
I don't agree with that but I'm not sure I'm going to change your mind.
This is punk with electronics as far as I'm concerned

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pPhbT73ZG2Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

darby
12-09-2014, 05:33 PM
wire isn't dancy unless all you've ever heard are outdoor miner and map ref

wire is definitely gloomy, conceptual, jagged, experimental

yeah but they're best known for their dancy stuff. pink flag was pretty influential when it came to the dancy post-punk sound. thank you for the technical input tho

Trotskilicious
12-09-2014, 05:36 PM
yeah they wrote killer pop

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/oEJSe8vutnM?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Trotskilicious
12-09-2014, 05:36 PM
elph thinks they are overrated

darby
12-09-2014, 05:37 PM
that's my fave song off the album, heh

elph is wrong

Trotskilicious
12-09-2014, 05:38 PM
mine is ex lion tamer i think, but there's so many good ones

and there's champs and 12XU ofc

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 05:39 PM
No I love Pink Flag. But they're not my favorite post-punk band even if they were the first

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 05:39 PM
I really, really like Lowdown

Elphenor
12-09-2014, 06:04 PM
Closest thing we have to The Beatles

I'm Hardcore
12-10-2014, 12:19 AM
They are though

rubbish

I'm Hardcore
12-10-2014, 12:20 AM
Depeche Mode are NOT a post punk band. Thread ends now.

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 12:31 AM
I don't agree with that but I'm not sure I'm going to change your mind.
This is punk with electronics as far as I'm concerned

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pPhbT73ZG2Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

rofl, i love depeche mode but that is blues rock through and through, if anything

yes with distortion, but wilder & co. were throwing that in as part of the band's new and more aggressive sonic palette

in all honesty, punk was kind of the antithesis to stuff like dm, or maybe the other way around

you're so fulla shit man when's it gonna end WHERE will it eend??

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 12:32 AM
most bands worth a damn aren't really easily capped by genre locks anyway unless they (see j.d., pil) were major pioneers of the genre and the reason those so-called journalists had to coin the terms

null123
12-10-2014, 01:28 AM
I Feel You is a good song

I'm Hardcore
12-10-2014, 02:56 AM
at times Depeche Mode were a really good band, seriously

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 02:58 AM
I'm not nearly glued to the idea of DM being post-punk as I am with the other groups I mentioned, but if you look at who these guys site as their influences (Kraftwork, VU, Clash, and Bowie) it's the exact same bands that are on Ian Curtis's list.

For me Post-Punk means "late 70's and 80's dance rock" and that's exactly what DM are

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 03:00 AM
Like Punk is music you head bang to

Pop and Club is music you dance to

Post-punk is music where you do a weird combination of both

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 03:03 AM
And yes Depeche is awesome in every way

I'm Hardcore
12-10-2014, 03:20 AM
I'm not nearly glued to the idea of DM being post-punk as I am with the other groups I mentioned, but if you look at who these guys site as their influences (Kraftwork, VU, Clash, and Bowie) it's the exact same bands that are on Ian Curtis's list.


so?

just because a band lists other bands as influences, doesn't mean that they are in any way LIKE those bands.


i mean i dont hear VU in Depeche Modes music ANYWHERE.

Trotskilicious
12-10-2014, 03:34 AM
most bands worth a damn aren't really easily capped by genre locks anyway unless they (see j.d., pil) were major pioneers of the genre and the reason those so-called journalists had to coin the terms

ding ding

Trotskilicious
12-10-2014, 03:35 AM
elph is so committed to labels that he has zero punk credibility but he's tryin so hard to get it

Cool As Ice Cream
12-10-2014, 03:39 AM
pre-homeless post-punk retro-jeans

Trotskilicious
12-10-2014, 03:47 AM
i bet they're skinny

Trotskilicious
12-10-2014, 03:47 AM
i never thought there would be a kid so confused to think post punk was a culture.

way to go, 2000s

null123
12-10-2014, 03:58 AM
at times Depeche Mode were a really good band, seriously

Is this a controversial opinion

fuzzyroes
12-10-2014, 04:02 AM
I've always just thought of bands like the cramps and gang of four as being punk bands

I'm Hardcore
12-10-2014, 04:04 AM
Is this a controversial opinion

why do you ask that?

Trotskilicious
12-10-2014, 04:06 AM
oh i know, because you put the qualifier <i>seriously</i> at the end of it like it needs to be justified

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 06:05 AM
i saw depeche mode 3 times last year

so good

Shallowed
12-10-2014, 07:44 AM
It's so funny seeing Elphenor talk about this stuff as though he has authoritative knowledge on all of this shit, coming up with more ways of showing that he has no idea what he is talking about.

Thread has shifted from third tier CW thread to second tier Elph thread

null123
12-10-2014, 09:12 AM
why do you ask that?

Just what trotsky said. DM are legends in my book

The exploding boy
12-10-2014, 10:21 AM
In mine too.

Once Vince Clark let and Gore found his footing, so to speak, as songwriter their output is terrific. From Some Great Reward on to Violator (some would say Songs of faith but while i do like some songs, like i feel you, i never could get into it much) they were nearly untouchable, at least in the genre.

And i love the visual aesthetics they had in those years, which was in big part due to Corbjin doing all their videos (who is really looking back probably in good part responsible for black and white being so big in early 90s videos) but i also like the artwork of the records. They understood image, like most legendary band.

Someone gave me a tape of Violator in 1990 and that was back when i was 12 and still listening to awful late 80s pop and rap and hip hop (i mean like Mc hammer...) and i was really drawn to it. It was pop but it seemed to have an edge. They seemed almost mysterious to me and...more grown up i guess. I'd seen their videos (Personal jesus, Enjoy the silence, Policy of truth) and was kinda fascinated by the gritty black and white world they seemed to be living in. I guess in a way it marked my turn towards less vapid music. Even if its not like Dm's lyrics are so profound or anything (though its true that you'll see your problems multiply if you continually decide to faithfully pursue the policy of truth) but i couldn't understand all of it then anyway as my grasp of english was still limited and i didn't have lyrics sheet. But at least it was more artistic pop and i could recognize that. The attitude was different.

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 10:30 AM
wow, you stop at songs of faith and devotion, lol? their golden age for me is violator to ultra, with playing the angel being a top 5 dm record, easily

black celebration & music for the masses are great but their both pretty much setting up that massive winning streak that makes me think of them as more of a 90s-&-onward group than the "80s band" casual observers try to mark them as

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 10:32 AM
I'm far from the only one who think of DM as post-punk this is annoying me

It just means they're a Rock Band inspired by punk that makes dance music. It's not some limitation on them.

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 10:35 AM
I'm far from the only one who think of DM as post-punk this is annoying me

It just means they're a Rock Band inspired by punk that makes dance music. It's not some limitation on them.

which is exactly why they're not, lol

even new order aren't "post-punk," & they're a fucking direct result of joy division

cure were for about 3 albums or so, no doubt, but that's about it

The exploding boy
12-10-2014, 10:37 AM
wow, you stop at songs of faith and devotion, lol? their golden age for me is violator to ultra, with playing the angel being a top 5 dm record, easily

black celebration & music for the masses are great but their both pretty much setting up that massive winning streak that makes me think of them as more of a 90s-&-onward group than the "80s band" casual observers try to mark them as

Yeah i can't really get into most of their post Songs of Faith stuff. I tried to time and time again. Not for me i guess. I am trapped in the 80's. To me the winning streak more specifically is Black Celebration, Music for the Masses and Violator. That's their top 3 records to me with Violator on top.

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 10:37 AM
Both of those bands are Rock bands that make dance music what the fuck

Every Cure album is post-punk

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 10:40 AM
Yeah i can't really get into most of their post Songs of Faith stuff. I tried to time and time again. Not for me i guess. I am trapped in the 80's. To me the winning streak more specifically is Black Celebration, Music for the Masses and Violator. That's their top 3 records to me with Violator on top.

those are all three great obv (well i never exactly called violator anything less but still) but songs of faith & ultra to me are just like... the rewarding culmination

as well as only when i lose myself, the singles 86>98 single

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 10:44 AM
Both of those bands are Rock bands that make dance music what the fuck

Every Cure album is post-punk

i'd say somethin about how if i got the bands on the phone, they would each quickly tell you how wrong this is but this has got to be a joke by this point

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 11:05 AM
It doesn't matter AT ALL what genre a band thinks they are. That's not how it works

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 11:05 AM
http://i58.tinypic.com/2ntbat1.jpg

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 11:16 AM
It doesn't matter AT ALL what genre a band thinks they are. That's not how it works

it's not really about the genre, it's more what you're implying these bands actually do

dm have pretty much maintained from the start that they're an electronic band who fucks with rock instrumentation, not the other way around

it sounds nitpicky, sure, but that kinda thing has a pretty profound impact on a band's sound & even, in a coupla these bands cases, their longevity

as for the cure, slapping an "OK, POST-PUNK" label on everything they did is fucking outrageous, lol. there's a pretty clear change in sound & approach after pornography which was pretty obviously in a large part due to the shifting from post-punk "sensibilities" to more straight-up art pop ones or whatever

and no, i'm not using "art pop" as a genre

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 11:35 AM
but shit what's it really matter anyway call it acid house if you want, lol

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 01:07 PM
I always saw Depeche from the beginning as a group that was into electronics and was inspired by punk to form a band using them

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 01:27 PM
punk punky post punk... punk punk!

(sung to the tune of "doot doota loot doo," a ringtone for elphenor)

Mals Marola
12-10-2014, 01:29 PM
seriously though they were a group of dudes inspired by kraftwerk to grab some synths & stop playing gary glitter covers in martin gore's basement, practically

no big deal, tho

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 02:04 PM
Obviously it doesn't matter, but I have nothing better to do then argue with all of you

fuzzyroes
12-10-2014, 09:35 PM
It just means they're a Rock Band inspired by punk that makes dance music. It's not some limitation on them.

That's not what Post-punk is.

Just because you read it on wikipedia somewhere doesn't mean it's true:rolleyes::rofl:

Trotskilicious
12-10-2014, 09:54 PM
Elph, post punk is not a culture. Fucking hell

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 09:55 PM
When did I say it was a culture

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 09:56 PM
It's a bunch of different cultures

It's a bunch of different musical styles

It's what happened in the aftermath of punk

Elphenor
12-10-2014, 09:58 PM
That's not what Post-punk is.

Just because you read it on wikipedia somewhere doesn't mean it's true:rolleyes::rofl:

Where did you read retro revival?

I'm Hardcore
12-10-2014, 10:30 PM
Just what trotsky said. DM are legends in my book

for fuck's sake

seriously, as in, i'm being serious and i like them