i chose the hoes :(

ca$h reward$

its sad, finally this is the album that makes me leave the boat, from gish to now, its done, so long and thanks for all the fish.

there is nothing that i like in the new music, too many 80's casio sounds, awful lyrics, pretty mhe guitars, it´s sucks alot.

I'm in the same boat.

awesome man, bros before hoes, kno what i'm sayin.

Sounds like some gay shit to me.

were the relevant parties informed

i better get the fuck out of here while i still can with my sweet cd-r

i burnt my hand on the provided trinkets, which i did, in fact, procure
cute post. if you are going to keep "posting on Netphoria," at least come up with interesting comments you completely vapid, unoriginal fuck, lol

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

So is Billy trying to attract the younger generation with simplistic lyrics? Is that the idea? Purposefully aiming for the lowest common denominator? Because that would be stupid. He got plenty of teens hooked with SD and MCIS. He certainly wasn't dumbing down the music then.

right up your alley, kno what i'm sayin sayin ya kno what i'm sayin :smoke:

shut the fuck up

So is Billy trying to attract the younger generation with simplistic lyrics? Is that the idea? Purposefully aiming for the lowest common denominator? Because that would be stupid. He got plenty of teens hooked with SD and MCIS. He certainly wasn't dumbing down the music then.

there's been some chatter about this on the song threads, i made the observation that it sounds like he's being even more cynical with his lyrics than ever which makes him feel superior and all. You know "i am going to write complete drivel and everyone will love it won't that be an ironic piss take of a piss take of a piss take of a piss take et." And then killtrocity posted this which pretty much confirmed it:

What qualifies for a good song in American radio to me sounds like a bunch of commercials strung together with no affinity for one another, and as long as there's a 4-4 on the kick going boom-boom-boom-boom-boom, and the vocal is aching and reaching for the sky, and the lyrics are really simple about "we gotta get this thing together" and "come on, we can make it happen and this is the greatest day I've ever lived" and, I don’t know, I don’t get it, so I don’t really know what a great song is anymore, and I feel I’ve written some great songs in the last ten years that have been completely ignored, so I’m hardly qualified to say what is and isn’t. You can't get on the radio in America if you don't have a whoa-ee-whoa chorus, there always has to be some sort of oo-ooing where the whole stadium will sing along with you when you get to the “oo” part.

http://www.unblockyoutube.co.uk/permalink.php?url=d5D4zsG3n1yrwOe1CfU%2FGgpOMVqlAO KvGJhJyUWKE0%2BRpv32xgFd8wKSWjQwVzWovnj2X2UJt9LYp5 0eQO9yXg%3D%3D

why is everyone in pumpkins camp so obsessed with the radio and being on it

The album is streaming on iTunes First Play. You can listen to it on your iPhone, just open up iTunes and it's advertised on the main page.

The problem is not that the lyrics are simple, but that they are bad.

WHATEVS

The album is streaming on iTunes First Play. You can listen to it on your iPhone, just open up iTunes and it's advertised on the main page.

I refuse to use legitimate sources.

listened to it from beginning to end for the first time.

http://f0.thejournal.ie/media/2013/06/so-so.gif

favorite track: dorian
least fav: Anaise

Or you can try kingdom leaks. Just saying.

After listening to the album all the way through I feel a little confounded. It's definitely a step in the right direction and a clear upgrade from Oceania music wise, but it's just so goddamned short... And because of the length it just doesn't feel like theres enough variety going on here.

I was excited by the tasteful guitar approach in Tiberius and One and All. Nice picking, great feel. But I'm disappointed to hear that thats where the interesting guitar work pretty much ends. Corgans a great player and he can play with the same kind of emotion that a guy like J.Macis can yet he chooses not to. So I'm a little disappointed with that.

Though I didn't like Oceania, there was more variety, more to sink your teeth into. This albums what 33 minutes? And some of the songs are total toss aways... Like I don't think I'll ever listen to Being Beige and Run2me again... Just too boring.

With that said I really dig Tiberius, One and All, Dorian and Anti-Hero. Anaise is pretty cool too.

All and all a bit of a mixed bag, but some really great quality here to enjoy. So all and all I'm happy to be digging some SP again.

Here are my thoughts after listening to all the tracks on youtube:

1. Tiberius
I LOVE this song. It's a kick-ass opener for the album and hangs tough with the big boys of the SP catalogue. Lyrically, it's probably my favourite on the album, too.

2. Being Beige
Unlike most, I really like this song. I think people forget about songs like Today, 1979, Perfect, and Try, Try, Try when they criticize Billy for trying to be too "pop" on this song. I really like the progression and feeling of this one.

3. Anaise!
This one's interesting to me. I was initially thrown off a bit by the odd groove of it, bu the more I hear it, the more I like it. Looking forward to hearing a full quality version, as the youtube one is like listening to music through the earbuds of the guy next to you on the subway.

4. One and All
This one still feels like a generic rock song to me. I don't mind it, but it's just a little bland. And there's something about hearing a 47 year old sing "we are so young" over a typical alt-rock riff that seems... off.

5. Run2Me
One Diamond One Heart is my least favourite Oceania track. This one reminds me of that. Again, there's nothing about it that I hate, but I just don't feel it the way I do some of the others.

6. Drum + Fife
I like it. It's not great, but it's good. Not much else to say about this one.

7. Monuments
I really dig Monuments. It's great musically, and there's enough lyrically to keep me interested. It's up there in my favourites from the record - I feel like it has a similar sort of groove to One and All, but is a lot more intriguing.

8. Dorian
SP does Disco. Again, I dig it! It reminds me of some other odd-ball SP tracks. I like the cultural commentary, too - the connection between our youth-obsessed, self-gratifying culture and The Picture of Dorian Gray. A goodie.

9. Anti-Hero
I haven't listened to this one as closely, but it's my least favourite on the album. An odd choice for a closer, too; I would expect something with more weight to it. To be honest, it's kind of boring and cliche and just not very good. I'd rather have it left off the album, and make it an 8 song EP closing in under 30 minutes. But that's just me.

OVERALL IMPRESSIONS
A solid B. Better than Zeitgeist, not as good as Oceania (as a whole, although I think I might like Tiberius more than anything on Oceania). I think there are three great tracks (Tiberius, Being Beige, Monuments), four good/OK tracks (Anaise!, Run2Me, Drum + Fife, Dorian) and only a couple of disappointments (One and All, Anti-Hero). Anti-Hero is the only one I can see not really listening to. It leaves me looking forward to Day For Night, too.

I personally wish Billy would accept that his ability to reach a mass audience has waned with age - as it does in all pop culture. I think he needs to appreciate the moment he's in a little more. He has a lot to offer, but I think this lust for commercial success has hampered him some.

I won't hope that he'll ever get away from the Zwan-Ness of most of his SP2 input, as that's not going to happen. His ear for melody is mostly gone I think.

But I do agree with him that he shouldn't repeat himself, so if this is the pop album and Day for Night is more experimental, that's fine. We'll all combine our favourite tracks into 1 album regardless.

It's also interesting to me that he throws half these songs into the recycle bin and then ends up finishing them. This from the guy who seemed like by far the most prolific writer of the 90s.

No more b-sides.

Listening to it now to see how it goes. Seems like the unabashed pop Pumpkins album, but I don't think it's Zwan-y. It's got some guts behind it.

The vocals are his best since Machina. Anaise! especially.

So here's my playlist >>>

Monuments to an Elegy • EP

1. One and All
2. Monuments
3. Drum+Fife
4. Tiberius
5. Anaise

It's a love note to 80s new wave. Short, simple and to the point. Feels less cheap than the past few albums. Vocals are good.

What's with the lyrics though?

I bet if we looked at the ratio of unique words to the number of songs, this will have the lowest number of all albums/releases by SP.

So here's my playlist >>>

Monuments to an Elegy • EP

1. One and All
2. Monuments
3. Drum+Fife
4. Tiberius
5. Anaise

those 5 are the ones I enjoy the most, too. combined with the decent tracks from Day for Night next year, we have one album...

Listening on itunes play, and all the American Express commercials definitely sound like they belong there.

Impressions from my very first listen (I avoided all the other songs that have leaked on youtube or otherwise, except for Being Beige).

Sounds like the next logical step from Teargarden to Oceania to this. Any touting of this being any sort of comeback is wrong and misguided. This is simply what this band sounds like now, and I hope all of you have accepted that by now, this has been going on for quite some time. Drums sound exactly like Oceania; Tommy was neither an improvement nor a slip back from the last drummer (I forgot his name, was it Mike?). That either says a lot about the kid, or it just shows you there was only one real drummer of this band in the first place (but I think we all knew that).

I am not a fan of short albums. imo, it's a 10-song minimum, 35-minute minimum. I feel like this album is still one song too short. Very annoyed there is no token epic song on this album. No Window Paine/Silverfuck/Porcelina/Starla/Aeroplane/For Martha/GATGC. Yes, it's a complete cliche by now, but still a quality I liked of the band, even up until the last album (which I thought the title track was pretty great btw).

Also, these songs are less memorable than much of Corgan's previous work. I feel like these songs are written-by-the-numbers formula pop drivel. I am on track 8 right now and I can't even remember what I already listened to. Someone thought to pull the best songs from this and the next album to make one "great" modern SP album, but i couldn't even pull the best from this because they are all equally mediocre and forgettable. The arrangements are all samey and band performance bland, aiding to this phenomenon of nothing standing out at all. But is that Monument's fault of my own?

I liked Oceania a lot for about a month, but I don't think I've listened to it in a few years nor would I want to revisit it... ever. My initial perception of this album is less warm than for Oceania though, I don't feel like I have any desire for a second listen at all. I'm not sure if that is a reflection of me or the music itself; is there really less diamonds here, or rather am I less willing to search for the diamonds in this rough?

A more important question is what is this album's rubric? It would be foolish to compare it to either the band's 90s catalog, or even music being produced today. So should this album be compared to other 90s acts currently struggling to be relevant? I mean, yes, this album is much better than Everything Will Be Alright In The End or King Animal or maybe even the new Spacehog album I don't have the patience to listen to. But it can't compare to The Whole Love or The Terror or even The King of Limbs.

So should this album be compared to other 90s acts currently struggling to be relevant? I mean, yes, this album is much better than Everything Will Be Alright In The End or King Animal or maybe even the new Spacehog album I don't have the patience to listen to. But it can't compare to The Whole Love or The Terror or even The King of Limbs.

LMFAO. Weezer's latest album was pretty great. King Animal sucked, sure...but The Terror? Who the F liked The Terror? The King of Limbs? This is better than those. Really, I can say Weezer and Hesitation Marks as the ones being better...about it.

Stuff...

Everything you said was spot on.

Not as good as Oash or TBK but not as bad as ZG

Hopefully all the interesting songs are on the next one

LMFAO. Weezer's latest album was pretty great. King Animal sucked, sure...but The Terror? Who the F liked The Terror? The King of Limbs? This is better than those. Really, I can say Weezer and Hesitation Marks as the ones being better...about it.

No it absolutely was not

The terror was good and KoL is the only 90's alt album released recently that actually steps out of the band's previous shadow

No it absolutely was not

The terror was good and KoL is the only 90's alt album released recently that actually steps out of the band's previous shadow

Hahahahahahahahahahaha King of Limbs sounded like every Radiohead album post-OK throw into a blender.

The Terror was nothing. It was literally 70 minutes of nothing.

It's a love note to 80s new wave. Short, simple and to the point. Vocals are good.

Agreed - I like the retro feel. Vocals are good, lyrics are OK, for the most part. I liked the vocals on Oceania, too, though. Except for Wildflower.

Hey if you want to continue to listen to boring dated as fuck Weezer and Foo Fighters go ahead I guess

Better than Oceania but still behind Zeitgeist for me. I'm liking Dorian a lot, yeah the lyrics are poor but it's the most musically interesting song on the album for me

× The album, as a body of work, surprised me positively. I already knew all the songs, but listening it from beginning to end, it sounds more cohesive and even some weak tracks (eg Being Beige), sound better in this context.

× The album has great melodies, and very good catchy riffs. Each song has its own atmosphere and it sounds like they are well delimited. It's almost as if each song is a summary of, or even an introduction to, all the musical aspects explored by the band before, whether it be rock, pop, hard rock, electronic or other variation.

× The downside of it is that the music was able to capture the style in general, but a few songs seemed to be able (or tried) to have the same depth of a classic Pumpkins song. It ended up sounding shallow and anemic in comparison to their inspirations. For example, Dorian would easily be a favorite of mine, a classic Adore sound, but the lack of proper lyrics does not help me to create any personal connection with the it.

× The short length is a great idea! All classic albums released between the 50's and mid-80's have more or less the same length! One doesn't need more than that to make a masterpiece, especially if you release another album after 1 year of its predecessor. In the end, there's no time to get bored with any of the songs on the album, and we still feel like repeating it as soon as it's finished.

× Anaise! is my favorite so far. It's something completely new to Billy, it has a spectacular grove and shows that Billy can still be creative, and also a very good bass player. It's very new wave-sh and also funk-sh.

× Drum + Fife and Tiberius are also on the top of my list and, for me, these 3 songs could be in any other Pumpkins album.

× I like Run2me, it's a natural sequence of previous songs such as Death From Above, One Diamond One Heart and also the remix of Cupid De Locke on the Mellon Collie reissue. Not as good as them tho.

× Anti-Hero has a nice punch but, even so Billy said the shallow lyrics are intentonally ironic, I can't help but recall that Today is also ironic and pop, but its lyrics are way more smart.

× Billy lost the power of writing lyrics that people like quoting on their tattoos, sharing on their Facebook or Twitter, writing in their notebook while watching a boring class. In other words, Billy can't seem to be able to write lyrics with which people relate to.

Score: 6.5/7 out of 10.

I haven't read most of this thread but I don't get all the comments about the album being too short. I'm very much in favour of making an album better by cutting all the crap, getting rid of all the lesser songs in order to only have the best songs on it as opposed to making an album needlessly drag with lots filler. It's this kill your darlings thing that was very often Billy's weak point. Props to him for choosing for a shorter album finally.

On the other hand, in Billy's case this doesn't say a lot since he also had a knack for choosing weak songs as album tracks in favour of often much better songs that didn't end up on an album, with Zwan being probably the worst example of this. I haven't been following his updates much and i have no idea if these nine songs are all there are for this recording session and I don't have high hopes that there are songs left that are better than the ones on this album.

That's just my opinion about general album aesthetics and not about the quality of this album. I'm listening to it for the first and maybe last time, and as with everything SP related since Adore I'm not very impressed.

The word that comes to my mind when listening to the whole thing is 'disposable'.

There's something more depressing about this album than TBK; once he was in a slump where he just wrote mostly bad songs, now he's writing half of a good song and stopping right there because "that's what the masses want" - along with shitty lyrics.

I like Tiberius a bunch. Feels the most fleshed out of anything on the album. There are good ideas in most of the tracks - some of the better ones he's had in ages - but they're undeveloped. It's far short of what I think Billco could still be capable of if he were properly motivated.

I guess I'll at least be able to put this on as background noise while I work, or something. That's about it.

I appreciate all of the reviews, I still cannot wait for the album to come out.

SP fans has to realize that Billy has already written the big hits, "Today," "Disarm,", "Tonight Tonight," "1979," "Zero," "Perfect," "Stand Inside Your Love," and so on.

I remember Billy saying between Mellon Collie and Adore that he didn't want to write another 1979 and that's why I call Adore the Fuck You album to Rock n' Roll (much like Radiohead's OK Computer and believe it or not Better Than Ezra's How Does Your Garden Grow).

As SP fans do you want Billy to re-write those songs? I don't because I've already heard them. Billy (just like Daniel Johns of silverchair) write music thinking outside of the box.

Has anyone heard if there are b-sides for the Monuments album?

LMFAO. Weezer's latest album was pretty great.

lol

Has anyone heard if there are b-sides for the Monuments album?

There are barely A-sides.

The word that comes to my mind when listening to the whole thing is 'disposable'.



Better than embarrassing.

None of these songs blow my hair back.

Anus! might be the best song. OOOOOOOOuuu lovers lovers something you.

This album doesn't bother me at all.
It is totally not terrible and not great either.
It's a completely forgettable and middle of the road album.

Dorian has such a cool sound, it is by far the best song.

This album doesn't bother me at all.
It is totally not terrible and not great either.
It's a completely forgettable and middle of the road album.

Isn't that the most offensive part of it though?

Isn't that the most offensive part of it though?

Only in the sense that Billy always seemed to want to get a reaction out of his audience for better or worse.

But at this point, I think being safe and not terrible is a step up from the last few releases.

Only in the sense that Billy always seemed to want to get a reaction out of his audience for better or worse.

But at this point, I think being safe and not terrible is a step up from the last few releases.

I guess. That's the depressing part I guess.

I'm glad the Beatles broke up before they could release the equivalent of Run2Me

Eesh....remember when the smashing pumpkins had DYNAMICS? These songs are just repetitive boring lyrics with Castlevania synths and 0 creative songwriting aspects. seems lazy. For an example of Dynamics see songs like ruby, galapogos, porcelina, siyl, hell, even trash off of zeitgeist had crazy dynamics.
this new album is just flat, stretched out, brickwalled from end to end. this typically happens when an album is written like this. by writing the songs to a drum loop then just adding drums to an already assembled recording does not make for a true pumpkins sound. however from listening and reading, i guess that's what he wanted to make. a pop record with short songs with a chance to be heard on radio.

what he said in the beginning was that he was writing a doom metal album.....wtf? seriously?

what he said in the beginning was that he was writing a doom metal album.....wtf? seriously?

lol he never said that.

Jesus. They never said that. Jeff posted a pic of a SUNN amp they were using (a favorite among doom-metallers) and joked that they were making a doom-metal album.

He wrote this album to get on the radio and then the next album will actually be good

He wrote this album to get on the radio and then the next album will actually be good

The funny thing is, none of these songs will be in any way popular with mainstream listeners

this is such a stupid post. you definitely should wait until you know what you're talking about before typing such small-minded drivel.

It's really easy to criticize the band nowadays, all you need to do is use the words "brickwall", "dynamics", "mastering" and the phrase "vocals are too high".

Another review has surfaced now that it's officially available to stream.

http://www.stereogum.com/1722169/premature-evaluation-the-smashing-pumpkins-monuments-to-an-elegy/franchises/premature-evaluation/

The writer does try and balance the critique but it's really difficult to take this review seriously, since the reviewer hasn't really liked anything at all since MCIS. I don't know how someone can listen to Machina II and still say that MTAE is a better collection of songs.

That guy is an awful writer. And hard to take him seriously when he says shit like this:
"There are hundreds of albums released every year that are better than the MACHINA records, Zeitgeist, and Oceania."

I completely missed that part. My eyes must have glazed over as the writer got wrapped up in his own pontifications.

These songs are just repetitive boring lyrics with Castlevania synths and 0 creative songwriting aspects.

Don't you fucking badmouth Castlevania synths

He wrote many of these songs on his beloved 1920s Bauer piano, which I'm sure produced a very different and stripped down feel. I wonder what these songs would have sounded like had he not gone down the new wave power pop route and busted out the Casio. I quite enjoyed the stripped down MCIS piano suite he performed at Ravinia.

I appreciate all of the reviews, I still cannot wait for the album to come out.

SP fans has to realize that Billy has already written the big hits, "Today," "Disarm,", "Tonight Tonight," "1979," "Zero," "Perfect," "Stand Inside Your Love," and so on.

I remember Billy saying between Mellon Collie and Adore that he didn't want to write another 1979 and that's why I call Adore the Fuck You album to Rock n' Roll (much like Radiohead's OK Computer and believe it or not Better Than Ezra's How Does Your Garden Grow).

As SP fans do you want Billy to re-write those songs? I don't because I've already heard them. Billy (just like Daniel Johns of silverchair) write music thinking outside of the box.

Has anyone heard if there are b-sides for the Monuments album?

I'm realistic so I'm not hoping for anything at that level, but it still doesn't mean you can't put out a solid album. This particular album is not what I would call solid, far from it actually. For me it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm no rock star but even I can pick up on places in certain songs that had potential for things like solos, added ambiance, or some added spacial dreaminess if you will. This album sounds like it is, a generic, poppy, radio friendly, quick sale. The last bit finding me most puzzling, being that with all the success Corgan has had, why does he care what the masses want? That ultimately goes against what the bands original philosophy was all about.

I quite like the album (except Dorian) as a pop album
I'll just have to adjust myself to it being billy's voice singing these songs.

is there any way to listen to the stream without iTunes? Can't get to it at work

I quite like the album (except Dorian) as a pop album
I'll just have to adjust myself to it being billy's voice singing these songs.

'Pop album' shouldn't be an excuse for mediocrity.

but it is.


I'm not so fresh with the all kinds of music out there, but does anyone have any prime examples of the band billy's ripping off with this guitar/synth sound?
it doesn't sound like castlevania. (the one comparison dropped in this thread to date). they're a lot more techno/electro in their arrangements.

I'm not so fresh with the all kinds of music out there, but does anyone have any prime examples of the band billy's ripping off with this guitar/synth sound?


The only current big name band that comes to mind that recently released an album with a guitar/synth sound is the Arcade Fire.

Arcade Fire? LOL

It sounds really 80's/New Wave.

Some influences are clear:

Black Sabbath
The Cars
Cheap Trick
Talking Heads

I misread T&T question. I thought he was asking for current/mainstream bands that released a guitar/synth album (like what Howard might have played for Billy and Jeff as examples of what they should sound like today).

But yeah, the 80s influences are pretty clear. Billy has been pretty open with his influences in the past and in his blog entries. Take any cover that they did for TAFH as an example.

:)

Going to give this a few more spins, but I gotta say - Im loving this. That stereogum autobiography/review is right on when it says that there's nothing in SP's catalogue album-wise that sounds like this. The synths are done well for once - in the way Ive been waiting to hear since Adore was first labelled as a synth album and under-delivered.

Anaise is great. Best song on the album, should have been the single.

I actually like this far more than I thought I would, but sonic is right that it's a little same-y.

Run2Me kills the momentum from Anaise & One & All.

Really, if the lyrics weren't so abysmally bad, this might be my favorite since Machina.

Anus! has a drum and bass line. It's been awhile since the bass was prominent in an SP song. It's nice. I like it. Except all the Ouu's and Luvuh's.

i think i heard other ppl talking about it but "drum and fife" does sound an awful lot like that "i'll kiss anyone tonight" song so much that even though i don't know the name of that song i'm listening to drum and fife and starting singing the other lyrics

bilys all like you guys didn't like this song the first time let me give it to you again trust me this should have been a single

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb14/slunken_2007/SP%20LOL/72305DD6-7E90-418D-B6B6-DB6F7FBC1FD1_zpsyqvgbsss.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/user/slunken_2007/media/SP%20LOL/72305DD6-7E90-418D-B6B6-DB6F7FBC1FD1_zpsyqvgbsss.jpg.html)
"i always know whats best"

on the real though - hearing these songs sequentially in an album format I really enjoy it more than individual songs. am anxious as i mentioned previously in another thread to listen to it in my car.

these songs are meaty and concise. thick hooks for days. each song basically explodes into the next one. i fucking love that.

even if you don't dig any particular song that much, here comes another one immediatlely made from the same instrumental palette. the fact that every single song is made from the same instruments is realllllly helping this album i think. every song sounds like every other one so it almost feels like a live album or a bare-bones garage album at that (which imo was always the best part of zeitgeist) but yet it still retains just enough of that "studio perfectionism" aka "killed the song (neg) in the studio" to make it sound like a pro album.

i never got into too much classic power pop but i've always been a huge cars and cheap trick fan (because billy) and I'm really liking what I hear on this record. synth work is total greg hawkes style.

If he's going to go the 80s route I much prefer the Gary Numan / Depeche Mode type stuff from Future Embrace than this stuff that sounds like 80s pop rock.

I like the masculine energy in this album. Sounds good. The album sounds very different too, which is nice.

lol

weezer's new album is fun. sorry you hate fun. typical minnesotan.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VNIsrTXxPTo/VH3lxFTZhqI/AAAAAAAAR_g/tNFogTsr0nI/s1600/L1040216.JPG

typical minnesotan.

Grasping for straws I see.

nah i'm in minnesota too. just joking.

really, though, weezer's new album is enjoyable for a few spins. rivers knows how to write a good hook and the guitars are nostalgic.

Arcade Fire? LOL

It sounds really 80's/New Wave.

Some influences are clear:

Black Sabbath
The Cars
Cheap Trick
Talking Heads

oh my gosh.

nah i'm in minnesota too. just joking.

really, though, weezer's new album is enjoyable for a few spins. rivers knows how to write a good hook and the guitars are nostalgic.

i listened to it after you posted the youtube clip. the new weezer album is legitimately good.

Look at him. You all made Billy sad.

i listened to it after you posted the youtube clip. the new weezer album is legitimately good.

Agreed.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/nBH7_8SwMuI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

nah i'm in minnesota too. just joking.

really, though, weezer's new album is enjoyable for a few spins. rivers knows how to write a good hook and the guitars are nostalgic.

Sorry I think the whole album is garbage. See fuzzywretches thread about it for my (dead on) track-by-track review

What's up with this cold? Really annoying. It's like February-cold right now...

Also I accidentally ended up listening to Monuments again because I forgot it was cued up in foobar, and Being Blah, Anal, Drums+fuck and D'ohrian are all OK I guess.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VNIsrTXxPTo/VH3lxFTZhqI/AAAAAAAAR_g/tNFogTsr0nI/s1600/L1040216.JPG

is this from the acoustic Paris session or from Berlin?
edit: well I should learn to use my eyes...Paris.
I'd like to hear the acoustic versions of the new songs, anyone know where this OuiFm Dailymotion thing is getting released?

i listened to it after you posted the youtube clip. the new weezer album is legitimately good.

OK fuzzy you win I'll give this a chance. I'm listening right now...

Ain't Got Nobody - meh
Back to the Shack - this is "Beverly Hills"-level terrible.
Eulogy For A Rock Band - eh not bad I guess. Oh wait the middle eight is bad.
Lonely Girl - Kinda sounds like a crappy Pinkerton outtake that fans kid themselves and say "It's great!" not because of it's actual quality but just because of the fact it was a Pinkerton outtake.
I've Had It Up To Here - Is this really a song about not selling out? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?
The British Are Coming - Overproduction doesn't make a shitty Alone song not sound like a shitty Alone song.
Da Vinci - This is actually not awful, so far the only worthwhile song on the album.
Go Away - I would like this Maladroit filler to go away.
Cleopatra - Almost decent until that buttrock breakdown.
Foolish Father - The good news is this is not a terrible song; the bad news is that this is only the second non-terrible song and the album's almost over.
The Waste Land/Anonymous/Return to Ithaca - I usually like it when bands go "Let's throw all our half finished song ideas into one long medley!" but this is just obnoxious.


RATING: D+
What's worse than Weezer trying to sound like vintage Weezer is Weezer actually sounding like they are trying to sound like vintage Weezer.
:banging:

ok i'll give your review a chance.

meh to your meh because this is good stuff.
back to the shack is atrocious but your taste is still bad.
eulogy's middle eight is the best part you troglodyte.
lonely girl sounds like the green album are your ears are literally galvanized.
had it up to here is the best.
british is coming is shitty alone? yeah. if you don't care about good things like key changes and solos and stupid lyrics made righteous through the power of not garbage music.
da vinci is definitely not the best, but it's still good, unlike your taste which is still bad.
we're on a smashing pumpkins board so we're definitely all cool with butt rock and i'm definitely cool with cleopatra.
foolish father is bester than the best.
the last three songs slay.

i hope you enjoyed my review of your review, soniclovenoize. if i knew how to, i'd ******* the smiley face banging the gavel here to "mess" with you.

Guys, this thread can only handle one over the hill rock star at a time, please.

Jeff is the hippest guy in SP

Jeff is the hippest guy in SP

http://photos-g.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xfa1/10817738_738294539591206_2058062575_n.jpg

Srsly. Docs, pegged skinny jeans, retro looking black jacket

Don't forget the comb over fringe.

way too early off the cuff reactions:

(scale: 1 = Widow Wake My Mind, 10 = Through the Eyes of Ruby)

Tiberius = 7.5
Being Beige = 3
Anaise! = 4.5
One and All = 6.5
Run2Me = 2
Drum + Fife = 6.0
Monuments to an Elegy = 6.5
Dorian = 5.5
Anti-Hero = 5.5

A couple highlights here but some real clunkers too. "Tiberius" is a good Billy song, at least Zwan-era worthy, and the song i'd choose to represent this album on a mixtape. "One and All" would be the runner-up because it comes close to that '96 pumpkins zero b-side sound, but has issues.

I guess it's technically the worst Corgan album so far (not counting the Teargarden EPs) because even the disappointing Oceania had more stretches of good music pound-for-pound.

if i knew how to, i'd ******* the smiley face banging the gavel here to "mess" with you.

lol

I really wanted to like this album. I loved the songs alone as they were released the last couple weeks. Once I listened to it as an album together I just wasn't feeling it. The lyrics are horrible on almost every song. It's really hard to relate to any of it. Musically it's pretty great. Would have been better as an instrumental album with no vocals. Sadly this isn't something that I would listen to in the car with other people, or suggest to a friend. Maybe after a few more listens my mind will change, but if this was anyone other than Billy I wouldn't give it another chance.

I haven't read most of this thread but I don't get all the comments about the album being too short. I'm very much in favour of making an album better by cutting all the crap, getting rid of all the lesser songs in order to only have the best songs on it as opposed to making an album needlessly drag with lots filler. It's this kill your darlings thing that was very often Billy's weak point. Props to him for choosing for a shorter album finally.


seriously

the move back to LPs as the physical medium of choice has reduced the length of albums i think, for the most part. CDs seemed to say "hey i can hold 74 mins of music!" and dudes, <i>especially rappers</I> would see it as a necessity to fill nearly the whole thing.

record twelve, cut two. That's the way.

tiberius, being beige, drum and fife, one and all and run2me are pretty good

but none of them are great. tiberius and drum and fife are the best two.

i'm not even listening to this as "smashing pumpkins music" anymore. fwiw this would be a killer followup to TFE, which tbh it practically is.

for everyone who dislikes, the songs do sound better with proper audio. youtube doesn't do them justice.

Agreed. Sounds pretty great on a nice pair of headphones.

i'm not even listening to this as "smashing pumpkins music" anymore. fwiw this would be a killer followup to TFE, which tbh it practically is.

very much so.

Anaise:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vk24UKKI4yY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Agreed. Sounds pretty great on a nice pair of headphones.

Have to agree with the above. I think i need to let the stuff rest for a few days then listen to the whole album on my good headphones. i heard Drum and Fife on headphones and when the chorus came in i got a little tingle.

this is definitely a strange album, and a hyper album, but I like that he doesn't seem to be repeating himself. He already made an album that was made with us die hards in mind. It was Oceania, people! He went all prog-rock, sensitive, and grungey and people still didn't like it. So now he's gonna bash us with some ringtones.

every time anaise comes on i think it's going to be a red hot chili peppers song

speaking of rhcp, i want to give a shout-out to all the falsettos on this album. respect.

Dorian has some decent music going on but man those lyrics/melody

The vocal delivery on the verses of Anaise is unbelievably bad.

http://i.imgur.com/CP5p6Jj.jpg

It all makes sense. It's the story of a rock and roll star who ends up losing his career and lover to the changing climate of modern music. The music industry turned it's back on him as well as his girl for no longer being apart of the current scene. It starts off with Tiberius which gives us shades of what his music use to be like and what he was trying to hang on to. Being Beige and Anaise! laments on the feeling of being disconnected from the rock he loves as well as his girlfriend. One and All is him trying to reconcile old with new by having rock music underneath a facade of vapid lyrics. Run2Me is seeing his girlfriend leaving him as he desperately wishes she comes back to him, wanting to have something from his old life to still hold on to. Drum + Fife is his anthem that he will continue on in the same vein of music that he has done for must of his life, indeed banging that drum til his dying day. Monuments is about him moving on from the loss of his girlfriend but not being able to do so successfully resulting in a very unconvincing declaration of him being alright. Dorian is the realization that the culture is obsessed with youth and having to conform to that to be successful is music is a must. Then finally Anti-Hero is him giving in to pop music making the transformation complete. It's his one final, desperate attempt to get the fame and his lover back. But to no avail. Or it's just a fun pop album...I dunno.

I don't give a shit if the music sucks

i can't believe it... but i'm coming around on the album when i listen to it as a whole.

i think you gotta look at it like it is what it is. it's a new wave expression that's supposed to be kind of dumb and fun and quick and light and sonic, and that's all. that's all it's supposed to be, and that's what it is.

if you don't take it seriously, it's actually kind of enjoyable and you can have fun listening to it (as long as no one else is around to hear it, b/c then it's horribly embarassing.) the lyrics are thoughtless mostly, b/c that's the kind of thing that goes with the sound.

i would love to hear an instrumental version of the album!

still, the only parts that make me totally cringe when i listen to the album without any pretense or preconceived notions or inhibitions about how gay it all is are the quiet parts of being beige, especially when he says cherry blossom. that's hard to take, as are the anti-hero lyrics. it's super tough b/c we all know billy is such a big angry dork singing about kissing girls. very tough.

but anyway, this is just kinda supposed to be a fun album to geek out to, and for what it is, i kind of like it. its completely incomparable to gish through machina sp, so don't even let yourself go there.

It all makes sense. It's the story of a rock and roll star who ends up losing his career and lover to the changing climate of modern music. The music industry turned it's back on him as well as his girl for no longer being apart of the current scene. It starts off with Tiberius which gives us shades of what his music use to be like and what he was trying to hang on to. Being Beige and Anaise! laments on the feeling of being disconnected from the rock he loves as well as his girlfriend. One and All is him trying to reconcile old with new by having rock music underneath a facade of vapid lyrics. Run2Me is seeing his girlfriend leaving him as he desperately wishes she comes back to him, wanting to have something from his old life to still hold on to. Drum + Fife is his anthem that he will continue on in the same vein of music that he has done for must of his life, indeed banging that drum til his dying day. Monuments is about him moving on from the loss of his girlfriend but not being able to do so successfully resulting in a very unconvincing declaration of him being alright. Dorian is the realization that the culture is obsessed with youth and having to conform to that to be successful is music is a must. Then finally Anti-Hero is him giving in to pop music making the transformation complete. It's his one final, desperate attempt to get the fame and his lover back. But to no avail. Or it's just a fun pop album...I dunno.

wow... that's kind of amazing. especially the dorian part. quite an imagination.

"I know what the kids are hankerin' for. A concept album. Jeff, fire up the studio, I've got an even more outdated album format to get started on."

Classic Billy. Personally I'm surprised he hasn't released some of his shit on phonographs.

Jeff, fire up the studio

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpa9dpjS031qahtuho1_500.gif

Drums sound pretty good on the better rip. Production is still too bright but the mix is okay.

Really like: Tiberius, Anaise!, One And All, Drum & Fife.

The rest goes from terrible to mediocre.

I can see threads of Zwan, TFE, and even Zeitgeist in here, but the album as a whole sounds like a combination of all 3.

Anyone else think Drum + Fife sort of sounds like a modern day SP equivalent of Arms of Sheep? Same sorta rhythm on the verses and the choruses sorta lift similarly. Maybe I'm just baked but I hear it.

Dorian has some decent music going on but man those lyrics/melody


I dig it. There's something in the melody or something that makes me think of Laugh - the "Do you laugh/could you laugh about it/I know that/I could live without it all" part

someone uploaded the whole album in high quality and i'm listening to it currently... so far, i don't dislike it as much as i did initially.

If he's going to go the 80s route I much prefer the Gary Numan / Depeche Mode type stuff from Future Embrace than this stuff that sounds like 80s pop rock.

i always find it weird when people say TFE is "depeche mode"-ian or whatever, i thought parts of adore definitely were, but i guess it's the fact that dm sounded at least 10x more contemporay in 2005 then billy corgan managed to

as for this album, i do agree it sounds more like a follow-up to either tfe or machina, if anything
i guess i can finally understand the shock it must have been to get an album starting with a rocker then going into mostly "synthpop" and whatnot like the '99-'00 era fans must have felt, and that's after having heard the majority of the songs beforehand

just doesn't really work that well as an album to me, though i'll definitely be takin some tracks from this one

Gave the album a proper listen tonight with decent headphones. Im coming around to it. The songs have a decent flow for an album with such variety... Tiberius into Being Beige sounds great. Obviously the lyrics are cringe worthy and on more than one occasion did I actually feel embarrassed by the lyrics but musically, I'm digging it. Dorian's actually my favourite despite THAT lyric, really hope that's where Billy's gonna go musically with DFN. Time will obviously tell if this album has any lasting power because Oceania didn't at all, I'm liking its chances though

Agreed. Sounds pretty great on a nice pair of headphones.

really? damn, last night even with the high quality upload or whatever i was still thinkin "this is probably a good stabbing to the ears on even a good pair of 'phones"

more or less due to the handling of the drums/mix

I'm glad the Beatles broke up before they could release the equivalent of Run2Me

...which is why the original band broke up, to go out somewhat on top... or at least not wherever "they" are now

the mix leaves much to be desired. some great textures that unfortunately take a back seat to the vocals...again. i want to blast these songs in my car, because guitars and drums like these sound great loud but, you know, the vocals. machina was the last album where this was not the case.

Grasping for straws I see.
nah i'm in minnesota too. just joking.


hey guys I'm in minnesota too

whoa me too. this weather is really somethin huh.

I'm glad the Beatles broke up before they could release the equivalent of Run2Me

The Beatles started with a bunch of Run2Mes.

Anyone else think Drum + Fife sort of sounds like a modern day SP equivalent of Arms of Sheep? Same sorta rhythm on the verses and the choruses sorta lift similarly. Maybe I'm just baked but I hear it.

Arms of sheep is better than any of this :/

The chorus is totally unpredictable and interesting, something that can be said for zero of these new songs. Billy noodling around back then was better than a year's work 20 years later...

I mean this stuff works as pop, it's just so shallow!

I think the guitar tones on this album are great, especially compared to Oceania. I like the Laney Supergroup toanz on MTAE.

agreed, more balls

Once more round the Sun by Mastodon shits over everything Billy has produced since the reunion. Now that's a fucking rock album.

Monuments doesn't touch me like Billy did when I was 11. But I swear I'm not living in the pass.

Out of all the Teargarden shit - aside from Spangled (anyone remember that, you twitch a.d.d kids) - Monuments isn't embarrassing. I wouldn't be caught dead playing Oceania in public. In fact, I can't even get through the second half of the album alone (and that's even skipping the first track).

Monuments is bland, repetitive, and uninteresting. But it holds a toe-tapping beat and has enough hooks and the mixing on Billy's vocals is low enough that it's tolerable. (except Run2Me, for fuck sake).

a glowing review

the phenomenon of "not being able to listen to [x album] in public" continues

got damn what a bizarre occurence

what do some of you do when you see like a wham! record, run to the back room and hide?

the phenomenon of "not being able to listen to [x album] in public" continues

got damn what a bizarre occurence

what do some of you do when you see like a wham! record, run to the back room and hide?

To be fair, I can't even listen to Oceania in private.

New Billy interview: http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-grunge/Content?oid=3278038

SF Weekly: So you're heading to practice — what is this time like before you leave on tour?

Billy Corgan: It's kind of a mad scramble. I've never played with Mark [Stoermer, from the Killers] and Brad [Wilk, from Rage Against the Machine] before, so I want to help make sure they're comfortable — they're both putting themselves out there, coming from really successful bands, and putting in a lot of work. Smashing Pumpkins are known as a great live band, so we can't just show up and ramble through; especially since a lot of the newer songs are kinda prog, there's just a lot to do. I've also been working on a mini-musical that will be out in December in a musical theater here [in Chicago]. My friend is the director and she asked me to get involved. I've seen some blogs talk about that with a smirk, but it's a really incredible world and I'm really happy to be doing it. I've also been working on my book, and songs for Day for Night. There's no shortage of things to do.

You've been the only consistent member of the Smashing Pumpkins for a while, and even now you're touring with a different band than the one that played on the record. Does not knowing who you'll be playing with influence how you write?

No, not really. At some point, I had to give up on the proprietary idea of band equals these people equals album equals tour, repeat. Jimmy [Chamberlin] left in '96, and when you remove someone from the group it changes the dynamic of the group, so essentially since '96 I've been dealing with the fact that I don't get to have this fixed cast to write and build for and coordinate with. I'm a writer who prefers to write for a purpose, or from a character, more, anyway ... but it has been a weird journey ever since losing that footing.

It comes to who you want to work with, especially for the Pumpkins as a live experience ... I can't go out under the name the Smashing Pumpkins and play whatever I want. As a business, you just can't afford 1,000 negative comments on social media about how you didn't play their favorite songs. For these shows we're playing a balance of songs, having a good time. In terms of the lineup, I just want people who play rock with real power.

It's interesting you mention social media — you recently wrote a long explanation on your blog of why you're leaving your wrestling project. You've also been pretty transparent in detailing the ups and downs of writing your last few records. Why do you share so much with your fans? Do you feel obligated?

No. Not that anybody noticed, but there were a few years where I really didn't say that much outside of promotional obligations. And then at some point I came back around to sharing just as a genuine "this who I want to be as an artist." I'm not a big fan of the classic line, you know, when people say, "Yeah, but Picasso was an asshole" — that need to conflagulate the artist's personal life and ethos with their output. Most artists I know are fairly conflicted personalities, and their art becomes a way they can express something closer to their own truth, especially if they can't do that in their life. Being a transparent artist is part of being an artist for me.

Also, this seems to be a time when people like what I do, and now the quirkiness is making a weird sense. There have been times when people really didn't like [my music], and then they don't like all these other things I'm doing, like the wrestling. People are always kind of moving the furniture around the room so that whatever I'm doing makes them feel comfortable.

You've been in the public eye for so long now. Have you developed some tactics for dealing with it?

What's interesting is I've spanned a really unique period of history here in terms of being a public artist — from the ubiquity of MTV, to the dawn of social media, to now what I'd call kind of a second internet age. I've lived through three distinct social eras with three completely different sets of rules and expectations. I mean in the '90s it was all about credibility in the "alternative" world, and now I don't even know what alternative means anymore. I flipped on the alternative station in Chicago the other day and it was 30 Seconds to Mars, Lorde ... not that I have anything against those artists, but that's not the world I grew up in.

Speaking of how the music business has changed since you started: Do you have a stance on the recent hot-button topic of streaming music services, the Taylor Swift vs. Spotify kind of thing?

Well, No. 1 — this is sort of the topic du jour, but I saw Billboard announced they're going to change the way they do the charts; they're going to count streams. We have a term in wrestling called a work, and that means when you con the audience. To me, what Billboard's doing is a work: It's a con to keep the pop stars of the moment up in the charts longer, and it's going to cut the ankles of artists like myself, who are really the meat and potatoes part of the business, who consistently have an audience, who draw sales, who aren't ephemeral. The music business keeps shooting itself in the foot over and over again by artificially propping up their quote-unquote best and brightest, because they don't really know what else to do, but these are pop stars who can't keep up.

I have young nieces who are huge fans of One Direction, and Five Seconds to whatever, and the fact that they even love music enough to listen to them over and over again is great — it's not like I'm sitting there rolling my eyes. They have good taste in what they like. But the pop stars at stake can't compare to the pop stars of yesteryear, the dynasties, and they're definitely not affecting pop culture the way everyone pretends they are. The record business keeps scrambling to find ways to create a moral equivalent, but it's a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

How has that affected your career?

Well, for one, quality takes time — we don't sit there with 10 producers running beats all day, and then we get to go out and promote a perfume. Even though I qualify in the [top] .01 percent of record sellers, I get treated like I live in the middle of the forest, because they can't build that glossy campaign around us. I'm friendly with Sean Parker, I've known him since Napster and I've got no bone to pick with those guys — they're brilliant and they're using music like everybody else does: to sell their shit. And musicians like Taylor Swift are starting to realize they're getting jacked. To me, Taylor Swift is underpaid. She's the key in that lock right now, so good for her for realizing these people were not giving her the value she deserves. Artists have yet to receive their vested power. And the music business keeps treating people like me who won't go away like they're expendable, but we're the backbone of the industry.

For me, at this point, I have to rebuild a commercial credibility in order to rebuild an artistic credibility that, really, has never gone away. People try to separate me from my past, but the Pumpkins generally speaking didn't get good reviews [in the '90s] — like two and a half stars in Rolling Stone for Mellon Collie. And then in the 2000s, they beat me over the head with my own work, as if an alien had replaced my body and the guy who made the work in 2007 was someone completely different. And you can go into that for a while; I think some of it is the generational need to kill off previous generations, but by surviving that and enduring and refusing to quit, it's become this begrudging thing, and now the kids are coming around, because the work is there. A lot of young bands are name-checking us and it's finally adding up. The way the brand, for however much I hate that word, has been undervalued *— that's coming to the fore. The same way people are going, "Well, there just aren't that many Led Zeppelins," or "Hey, I'd rather listen to Nirvana and Michael Jackson." Because the quality is there.

People act like you're already dead. I'll have these conversations with people in high places, and they laugh and go "It's not personal"...they don't see it as an emotional argument. It's a numbers game when you have a brand, and I don't care if it's Led Zeppelin and there's a depth and a catalog and a history, the business is not built to take full advantage of what that means. That depth of heritage can help break new artists, but my phone isn't ringing off the hook with managers begging me to take their band on tour.

I had an executive at a former label say to me, "What are the chances you'll re-form the original Smashing Pumpkins for one gig?" And I said, "Zero, no chance, are you kidding me? If I haven't done it already, I'm not doing it for you. And he said, "Okay, well I asked Pink Floyd the same question." And I said "Two of the guys are dead." And he goes, "I still asked." They view us like we're cardboard cutouts. So they run sociopaths out there who are willing to be that thing, this object that the Bowies of the world used to make fun of, because what they get in return is their ship sinks anyway...We've got to get off the sociopathy. The sociopathic business just doesn't sell that much shit. Look at the numbers. And if they are selling stuff they're selling cellphones, they're selling laptops, they're indenturing those artists to a model that will pay them less ... and the mythos of rock stars and pop stars was that they were free. If I'm a sociopath, at least I'm my own sociopath.

How does this shape your plans for after the Teargarden cycle of records is over? You've hinted that will be a time to take a break or step back.

Well, seeing as the only regular members are me and Jeff [Schroeder], there's not much of a band to break up. I've said on the record that the Pumpkins are an entity until I'm dead. And maybe even after that, just to irk future hipster generations. My niece can sing for the band after I'm dead. No, what I'm looking at is a real hard assessment about art vs. commerce. The road that was presented to me, which as you can imagine I rejected wholesale, was "Your best work is behind you, you made your money, now shut your mouth." And I kept going. It cost me ungodly amounts of money to reinvigorate an artistic entity that I think is still viable. Like a lot of artists, the Pumpkins are grossly undervalued, and you have to deal with people's perceptions about whether that's rooted in reality. You have to negotiate with promoters and radio stations in a way that doesn't match up with artists of our stature or pedigree. They all treat me like this fallen angel.

So you go through all this shit, and I think we're at the last part of that process in terms of re-establishing what could be there, what should be there. I have really low expectations as far as commercial [success] goes, but I think all roads are open to us, and I don't look at my contemporaries and shake in my boots at the material I'm releasing. When I'm critical of other generations, people get frustrated, but I have a right to criticize my generation for dropping the ball. I'm basically that guy who won't leave the party.

What drives you to keep going? Or, as it were, to stay?

It's something akin to the same righteous indignation I felt when I was 18 years old — the feeling of being undervalued. Probably something to do with being undervalued by family, by my father, who was a talented musician. Some of the last vestiges of "I'll prove it to you." I'm naturally lazy, so I actually think I need that extra bit of vinegar. But I'll let that run it's course, do this one other album next year, then step back and go "Where is this?" I've thought about doing something like picking one city to play a bunch of shows in once a year, doing unique sets, things I think fans would enjoy — basically taking the band away from that hamster wheel of this business that constantly tells me I don't equal X and I don't equal Y.

There's a level of surprise going on because for a lot of station programmers, they thought they knew what the Pumpkins were and now they don't know where it all lands; there's a bit of reserve, a psychological scramble. It's almost like you were a bench player and now you're a starter and people can't get over it. Some writer who had made a lot of fun of me recently wrote something like "this reminds us that he was once an architect of the '90s." Which, it's really strange that that title apparently had been lost.

It strikes me that people who grew up with your music really project a lot onto you.

Oh, but I asked for that. I set that up, the way a performance artist would, to raise bigger cultural arguments, I think. In the song "Cherub Rock," when I wrote, "Hipsters unite, come alive for the big fight to rock for you," I was sticking my fucking foot right in it. It was '92, and we hadn't even gotten very far and I was going after the rise of hipster culture, which I just find sort of amusing at this point — the whole mustaches and banjos thing. To me, generally speaking, that consciousness — not the people, but the consciousness — is the scourge of the Western world. People are starving and dying from Ebola and people are worried about re-creating beer bong competitions. People who are middle-class, and usually white, really celebrate our culture in this detached way ... and I think people like me fit into some uncomfortable spaces for them. But anyway, I wanted that argument; I'm responsible for that.

Where are you on your memoir?

I started about four years ago, and I think it took me three years just to find my voice. I call it a spiritual memoir, and that will confuse people, but it's just my life through the prism of a journey: How did this person get from no aesthetics and no money to, you know, driving the Ferrari with the poodle. I honestly can say I've never read a book where a celebrity goes to this level of depth and detail to tell us about the person we want to know about. It's not just celebrating myself or my career. I'm hoping to finish the writing in the next six months.

How did you hook up with Tommy Lee for this record?

Writing this one song, we realized it had a particular strut to it, and we were going, "We should get someone who plays like Tommy." And Jeff said, "Why don't we ask the real Tommy?" At first it was a kinda funny idea, and then it became, wow, this would be the most sublime thing we ever do. So we called him up, played him the song, there's some pop stuff and electronic stuff, and he said, "I think this is a killer record, I hear it." So we worked together for about three weeks. He's such a life-affirming type person — he's just innocent in many ways, a wide-eyed soul who loves life and doesn't hold back.

You recently got pretty pissed at Anderson Cooper for making fun of your charity work for PAWS. Were you surprised by people's reactions to that magazine cover?

I think it said everything about the fact that people don't read beyond headlines, this hipster-based thing of "look how far he's fallen, he's fallen to doing cat magazines." The fact that no one on his staff even bothered to Google it — because there's no way they would have ran that [segment] if they knew it was for charity. There's this implanted image in people's heads of who I am and who I was that has no relation to reality. It kind of comes in waves of irony: Those people don't care about me, they don't care about my cats, they don't care about the time I took to do the charity, they don't care about the time Jeff and I raised $120,000 [for charity] by doing shows in people's houses, or how beautiful that was to them, how many cats and dogs were helped.

I think it says more about their lack of depth than my insanity. That my cultural contribution is the source by which they measure their place in the world, because they have no accomplishments. You are literally the piñata of the day, which is why the Anderson Coopers don't stand for anything -- they're nothing more than ambulance chasers. And the great irony that in a four-day cycle, he interviewed the Foo Fighters, then tore into me for being on the cover of a cat magazine. Foo Fighters, value; Billy, piñata. But the more people who treat me like piñata, the more strength I have. My credibility becomes almost unassailable. Because I've made mistakes, and I admit them, you cannot fuck with me on my record. Or on my records. How do you explain someone like me? Your math formulas just don't work.

"As a business, you just can't afford 1,000 negative comments on social media about how you didn't play their favorite songs."

http://ohitsjustawful.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/120313-billy-corgan.png

Monuments doesn't touch me like Billy did when I was 11.

TMI

Here's some early thoughts on the album, not that anyone cares.

I think Corgan actually took a lot of the complaints people have had about his more recent production to heart. In that, his vocals are considerably better and mixed better. He sings the consonants, and it's not as high in the mix as it used to be. The Siamese Dream effect is there in a few songs, too. I think this is a major reasoning in it feeling more like a Pumpkins album. Sure, his vocals aren't what they used to be, but he sings a lot like he did in MACHINA here. The only difference is his voice is, for better or worse, shot. I will argue this that Corgan simply can't sing like he used to. He can't do his soft falsetto anymore, and he can't screech. So we're left with a middle ground. It's as good as we're going to get from Corgan and is leagues better than his vocals on Zeitgeist, TBK and Oceania in sound and mixing. Being Beige is one of his finest vocal performances on record in a long time. Anaise! is pretty good too, that soft falsetto is pretty throwback, very Siamese Dream. That's simply as close as we're going to get in 2014 to old Corgan vocals. I think there's some emotion in these vocals, too.

The production is a LOT better. We were getting some massively brickwalled things and while this is still brickwalled, this is a bit more dynamic than I thought. Being Beige has some decent dynamics, as does Monuments. Going off of this, the synths don't really sound as cheap as they used to. I think a lot of the synths, in fact, call back to Adore which makes sense since Howard is involved. In addition, the guitars have some guts behind them and don't sound as shallow as they used to. Being Beige actually feels pretty thick but not muddy (think 7 Shades of Black guitars) but when the guitars mix with the synths in Tiberius and Monuments, it creates a pretty cool, driving sound. I dig it. The weird sounds Corgan makes with guitars is back, I think it's in Anti-Hero that uses feedback for some sounds. Pretty cool. Listen to One and All, that grit is VERY old school. More so than Inkless. Sounds like MCIS with his modern vocals. That chorus is so cool.

It's a gutsy album. It's obviously pop, but I think some songs like Anaise!, Monuments, Anti-Hero, etc are very strange for a Smashing Pumpkins album. The album, in fact, is a poppy, less emotional version of Adore that veers close to TheFutureEmbrace. It's definitely the most hooky album Corgan has ever made, which is funny considering so many people insist he can't write a catchy song anymore. If Corgan hadn't already burned every bridge, I think One and All and Drum + Fife would be huge hits. But he's already been lumped in as a wash-up, so there's no mainstream love coming his way. Lyrically, people want to bitch, but I can't fault them too much. I think there's a pretty sad theme here, honestly. I think there's a lot of Corgan dealing with getting old, and dealing with past loves in it. Realizing he's not always the good guy. Dorian has the best lyrics I think, it's honestly a sort of an old, morbid Corgan love song like Ava Adore, Perfect or Stand Inside Your Love. In fact, Dorian sounds so "Pumpkins" that I smile every time I hear it.

I think Corgan finally remembered what made the Pumpkins the Pumpkins sonically. I think it's fair to say that your opinion is that it's a bad album or whatever is valid, but I think the important thing here is that it really feels like a Pumpkins album. As much as I love Oceania, that feels like a solo album. This one captures that old vibe.

Saying that, it feels like a watered-down version of the old Pumpkins. There's a lot of trash here. Run2me is pretty awful, Anti-Hero is cringeworthy and Anaise! is hookless. But when this album is on, Tiberius for example, it's really his finest work in a long time. But I think what's big here is it isn't a desperate re-tread, it's something new that feels familiar. Damn, listen to dat guitar in Run2me. About as MCIS as there's been since, well, MCIS. Looking forward to Day for Night.

It's probably a 3/5, but an exciting 3/5 to me.

Monuments doesn't touch me like Billy did when I was 11..

:erm:

did you talk to someone about this?

oh. of course someone got to it before i did.

The song Monuments is by far my favorite. Corgan's got me singing "Lovaaaaahhhh you're strange, to me"

you guys will love this...showed up on my facebook news feed this morning...

"Cannot stop listening to "Monuments Of An Elegy," It will probably end up being my album of the year. It just speaks to my soul."


i added the emphasis. i'm tempted to ask them specifically which lyrics are speaking to their soul. :rofl:
MtaE hasn't spoken to my soul yet... perhaps it's playing hard to get.

:dammit:

you guys will love this...showed up on my facebook news feed this morning...

"Cannot stop listening to "Monuments Of An Elegy," It will probably end up being my album of the year. It just speaks to my soul."


i added the emphasis. i'm tempted to ask them specifically which lyrics are speaking to their soul. :rofl:
MtaE hasn't spoken to my soul yet... perhaps it's playing hard to get.

:dammit:

It's a fearful album, and slightly sad. Repetitive, yes. But a fearful. The lyrics remind me of Hesitation Marks.

well, it took a few days of listening, but I officially love the record.

I previously stated that Anti-Hero was the only track I'd probably never listen to. Caught myself bobbing my head to it today. And upon closer listening, the lyrics aren't as bad as they seem - a bit loose and generic, but nothing too silly. And they fit well with the mood of the songs.

So here's my playlist >>>

Monuments to an Elegy • EP

1. One and All
2. Monuments
3. Drum+Fife
4. Tiberius
5. Anaise

I've been listening to this "EP" in this exact order like 10 times. I have to say...I really like it. Very nice flow!

"As a business, you just can't afford 1,000 negative comments on social media about how you didn't play their favorite songs."



It was quite an aggressive interview by Billy. It was very interesting but he said a lot of questionable things...asides from the way he views himself, his band, and his place, the billboard thing was a bit odd too. While I do think that SP is, or was (if I'm being perfectly honest), a valuable name I think he's really deluded about the market value of the SP name. He's certainly not in the top percentage of selling artists. Billy seems to suffer from delusions of grandeur. I feel kind of bad for him.

It was quite an aggressive interview by Billy. It was very interesting but he said a lot of questionable things...asides from the way he views himself, his band, and his place, the billboard thing was a bit odd too. While I do think that SP is, or was (if I'm being perfectly honest), a valuable name I think he's really deluded about the market value of the SP name. He's certainly not in the top percentage of selling artists. Billy seems to suffer from delusions of grandeur. I feel kind of bad for him.

The SP name has a lot of market value for HIM.

As in- with the name he can book tours, album deals, sell tea through memorabilia and continue to make a decent living for him and his cats.

Delusion of grandeur, maybe. Outright delusional, most likely.

Monuments doesn't touch me like Billy did when I was 11.

Billy Corgan molested you.

well, it took a few days of listening, but I officially love the record.

I previously stated that Anti-Hero was the only track I'd probably never listen to. Caught myself bobbing my head to it today. And upon closer listening, the lyrics aren't as bad as they seem - a bit loose and generic, but nothing too silly. And they fit well with the mood of the songs.

I actually really like Anti-Hero. Listened to the whole thing on iTunes Radio and quite liked the whole thing. Shorter album than I would like but at least it doesn't overstay it's welcome. Kinda leaves me wanting more.

I must be getting soft too... i'm actually rocking out to Anti Hero, also nodding my head and not giving a fuck about the lyrics or cheeziness or anything.

The SP name has a lot of market value for HIM.

As in- with the name he can book tours, album deals, sell tea through memorabilia and continue to make a decent living for him and his cats.

Delusion of grandeur, maybe. Outright delusional, most likely.

Sure, but is this part actually true? Even though I qualify in the [top] .01 percent of record sellers, I get treated like I live in the middle of the forest, because they can't build that glossy campaign around us.

I'm still trying to figure out how he's part of the backbone of the music industry. I'd like him to expand on that.

I still think he's way too hung up on mainstream music and the word "alternative." Genres change, including their meaning. The word alternative is so ambiguous that the bands he's seeing really are the "alternative" to most mainstream music these days. It's strange to see that he still can't wrap his mind around that fact that obviously things are not going to be the way he grew up with. Dorian, indeed.

Smashing Pumpkins are known as a great live band, so we can't just show up and ramble through

Are?

I've said on the record that the Pumpkins are an entity until I'm dead. And maybe even after that, just to irk future hipster generations.

Haha

Writing this one song, we realized it had a particular strut to it, and we were going, "We should get someone who plays like Tommy." And Jeff said, "Why don't we ask the real Tommy?"

I like how they're constructing a reality in which Tommy Lee's groove is legendary and sought after

I'm still trying to figure out how he's part of the backbone of the music industry. I'd like him to expand on that.

I still think he's way too hung up on mainstream music and the word "alternative." Genres change, including their meaning. The word alternative is so ambiguous that the bands he's seeing really are the "alternative" to most mainstream music these days. It's strange to see that he still can't wrap his mind around that fact that obviously things are not going to be the way he grew up with. Dorian, indeed.

He's living in the pass. MCIS probably sold a shit tonne that even to date he's in the top percentage.

But the pass is the pass and 2014 Smashing Pumpkins are pretty irrelevant.

But MCIS was double counted (which I personally think is a stupid way to count multiple disc albums, same with MJ's album), so it sold 5 million in reality. I should add, MCIS was also priced as a single CD price by request of Billy, which I'm sure helped sales at the time. SD selling 10 million is far more impressive to me.


But the pass is the pass and 2014 Smashing Pumpkins are pretty irrelevant.

But Jeff told Billy that he has nothing to prove, so now he can just rest on his laurels.

I wonder what Tommy was paid.

So after spending the past couple of days driving around trying to digest this album, I've come to some early conclusions and quick random thoughts.

I wonder if MTAE is the kind of album Billy would have made had Jimmy never come into the picture. He's wearing the 80s influences on his sleeve with this these songs. The influences are so obvious that it almost feels like a first-time album from a band still trying to find their sound and figure things out, insecurities and all.

I love this genre of music, hell I grew up listening to the same kind of music, but I just feel like this is a few steps back as far as his artistic work is concerned. How many transparent 80s throwbacks do we really need? I feel like I'd rather go back and listen to those bands than have bands try and recreate that exact sound. Billy's voice also seems out of place to me. TFE gets bashed a lot around here but I thought he was far more adventurous with that album, musically and lyrically, even if it falls short in a lot of places.

Tiberius is the first song that I actually liked from the album and that hasn't changed much, but I've come around to songs like Dorian, Anaise!, and One and All. The songs aren't bad per se, but they don't carry any weight either. They really meld into each other, and I'm almost taken aback by the repetitiveness of this work. It's a frivolous album for frivolous times; in contrast to some years ago at SXSW, when Billy said: “You want to get laid? Great. You want to fall in love – that’s different. I’m in the Fall In Love business.”

As for the length, I love short albums, but I feel that if you're going to make a short and concise album it should have a strong message and theme (i.e. never mind the bollocks). If I take the album as is, as a silly and shallow work, then it becomes just as enjoyable to me as the latest catchy pop/rock song, which is fine, but I'm far from wanting that from most of the music I listen to in most situations, especially so from Billy. It's certainly catchy, ignoring most of Billy's vocals and lyrics, but it still falls flat at certain points.

If I pare this album down to about 5 songs it becomes a bit stronger as a whole. Still, there are some standout tracks here that could have been great with some minor changes. I still don't find myself thinking about the songs or itching to go listen to the album, which isn't a great sign of longevity for me, but maybe over time I'll find more things to appreciate about it. As of now, I don't love it and I don't hate it. I'm just somewhere in between.

He's living in the pass. MCIS probably sold a shit tonne that even to date he's in the top percentage.

But the pass is the pass and 2014 Smashing Pumpkins are pretty irrelevant.

it all depends on how you calculate it.
if you ranked every artists by their album sales, billy would be in the top % easily because there's a million bands, and many that never even broke 1000 sales. hell I'm probably in the top 5%. even CDBaby has 300,000 artists.

but if you ranked billy's total album sales vs All album sales, (high estimate of 50 Million worldwide sales). in 2005 the record industry sold 1 billion records just that year.
so over the last 50 years I'll round it down to 20 billion total sales. that's 0.0025 thanks to billy. he's still a small fry.

Can someone explain to me how billboard counting digital streams hurts people like Billy, as he claims? I don't follow his reasoning, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Gave this a few listens. It's interesting. A lot of it sounds unfinished to me, especially the lyrics (eesh). Has anyone done a "lovers" count?

That said, despite the production driving me insane, and the lyrics being fully embarrassing, there are enough strangely pretty portions of songs to make me feel this albums better than oceania. I don't think either have much staying power though.

Is this album out yet? Does it suck too?

best song on the album: Being beige

Best tracks for me are "Dorian" & "Tiberius". "Monuments" and "Anti-Hero" are awful, couldn't even finish listening to them. Others tracks..I don't know, I guess I'll listen to them from time to time.

One thing that's clear maybe more so than any other Pumpkins album...nobody can agree on what songs are good and which aren't. Opinions are all over the place on this one.

One thing that's clear maybe more so than any other Pumpkins album...nobody can agree on what songs are good and which aren't. Opinions are all over the place on this one.
Yeah, tho it isn't the first time this happens, and it won't be the last

i love how pissed off he is throughout the majority of that interview, especially towards the end

Can someone explain to me how billboard counting digital streams hurts people like Billy, as he claims? I don't follow his reasoning, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Cause they don't count tea packages yet.

Im going to the supermarket to get some leeks and listening to Tiberius on the way. If anyone wants to come let me know.

Thank you.

Well, for one, quality takes time

It sure does...

For me, at this point, I have to rebuild a commercial credibility in order to rebuild an artistic credibility that, really, has never gone away.

:banging:

I think some of it is the generational need to kill off previous generations, but by surviving that and enduring and refusing to quit, it's become this begrudging thing, and now the kids are coming around, because the work is there. A lot of young bands are name-checking us and it's finally adding up.

Not trying to be a prick here but what young good bands have been name checking SP? I'd be interested to check them out.

The way the brand, for however much I hate that word, has been undervalued *— that's coming to the fore.

Really? Now he hates the word even though he has been using it ad nauseam since he released zeitgeist? Not to mention his bloody fucking tea shop.

Monuments has exactly a 3 out of 5 on rateyourmusic.com. Oceania has a 3.18 out of 5. Tear garden has a 2.57 out of 5. Zeitgeist has a 2.64.

http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/the_smashing_pumpkins

Bands aren't name checking him. He's wrong about that. But with the success of Silversun Pickups and Joy Formidable and Yuck to a lesser extent it does seem like the Pumpkins sound is in style again.

Yeah, but those bands generally sound like a hybrid of that late 80s/90s sound (SP, Pixies, Dinosaur Jr., MBV), not explicitly SP. Hell, I never thought the Silversun Pickups ever really sounded like SP.

So, it seems that PledgeMusic uploaded the album to their website and then took it down a few minutes later:

Technical Fault
Please ignore the last email about the album release.
The album is being released on the 9th December.
PledgeMusic

Of course someone was able to download and share it before they took it down. :rolleyes:

How unhappy is Pumpkins camp now?

radio chitchat with Corgan from a few hours ago, around the 44:30 mark
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04pqxvs

I like it. I'll listen to it more than I do Oceania. Not great, though.

it all depends on how you calculate it.
if you ranked every artists by their album sales, billy would be in the top % easily because there's a million bands, and many that never even broke 1000 sales. hell I'm probably in the top 5%.

hmm? youtube plug your crappy band plz



Not trying to be a prick here but what young good bands have been name checking SP? I'd be interested to check them out.

M83 said he based "Hurry Up, We're Dreaming" off of Mellon Collie. It's a good album but it sure as fuck aint Mellon Collie.

Some album art:


http://d2tqed3y8k290k.cloudfront.net/assets/jpgs/958/bfe/946/96927/tab_width.jpg?1416593115


nice and all, but a booklet with lyrics would have been a good idea for this album.

without reading the actual lyrics, I'm stuck with DORIA-A-A-A-AN and we are, we are so young.

radio chitchat with Corgan from a few hours ago, around the 44:30 mark
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04pqxvs

That interview is almost the opposite of the the one he did for SF. He's like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

I completely disagree with his assessment that the UK loves people who stick it out. The UK press generally love people who go away while they're still on top (Smiths, Led Zeppelin, Beatles, etc).

Also, he brings up Pavement again and compares their record sales.

Kudos to Billy for picking an Alarm song, rain in the summertime, and Lulu's to sir with love for the dj to play, certainly wasn't expecting that.

is that seriously the whole booklet? fuuuck

now i have to load up spfc on my phone if i want to read the lyrics in my room and that's a pain in the ass. also have to do that with gish and siamese dream but i'm okay with that after all this time. i didn't expect corgan to release an album in 2014 without the lyrics in the booklet, why's he gotta do this

and is anybody even 100% sure on any of the lyrics for any of the songs so far? that's problematic too

Maybe he didn't release the lyrics because he knew they sucked

M83 said he based "Hurry Up, We're Dreaming" off of Mellon Collie. It's a good album but it sure as fuck aint Mellon Collie.

Yeah, I remember reading about that. I only really liked Before The Dawn Heals Us and few other songs from their other releases, but really they owe a lot more to shoegaze bands and JAMC than SP. Even Hurry Up, We're Dreaming still owes a lot to shoegaze and the so called "no wave" genre.

Attention everyone, I got stoned and re-listened. Anaise is the best one. Dorian and Run2Me close behind.

Maybe he didn't release the lyrics because he knew they sucked

probably

i really like these songs, but they're so superficial and immediate that i fear i'll tire of them quickly. i'm hoping day for night puts everything in a new context; these are the pop ones, D4N will be the weirder ones.

Attention everyone, I got stoned and re-listened. Anaise is the best one. Dorian and Run2Me close behind.

is this serious?

if so, you know better than just to announce it like that. around here we need an announcement first. i cant handle this wack ass shit

ha ... i love that he STILL talks about Pavement ... and STILL hates them... gotta give it to Bill. He's pretty fuckin sincere ... and nuts.

Tiberius is his best hook in years

Because he stole it from a C side from 1995

Can someone explain to me how billboard counting digital streams hurts people like Billy, as he claims? I don't follow his reasoning, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Chemtrails, illuminati, etc..

Hearing some weird amalgamation of Zwan, TFE and Zeitgeist here.

Something like Anti-Hero reminds me of Baby let's Rock. Parts of Tiberius (?) remind me of Honestly in the melody.

Monuments sounds like Starz or Come On (let's go).

Hearing some weird amalgamation of Zwan, TFE and Zeitgeist here.

Something like Anti-Hero reminds me of Baby let's Rock. Parts of Tiberius (?) remind me of Honestly in the melody.

Monuments sounds like Starz or Come On (let's go).

I don't really think this album sounds very Zwan-y. TFE and Adore...maybe bits of Zeitgeist, yeah.

I don't really think this album sounds very Zwan-y.

There's one song on the album which totally reminds me of Zwan and that's Drum+Fife.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8Gwlu1BHEdY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

^

for real?!?

its your right but its fucked up.

__________________
Shadowland

I wouldn't be sad if Zeitgeist, Oceania and Monuments never existed.

is this serious?

if so, you know better than just to announce it like that. around here we need an announcement first. i cant handle this wack ass shit

lulz

The Zwan comment was more with respect to the energy and some of the melodies than the specific sound.

Another Corgan interview: http://diymag.com/2014/12/04/smashing-pumpkins-bill-corgan-interview-if-you-cant-supersede-what-you-did-before-you-dont-belong-out-there

“I just wish someone would give me a little bit of prop for costing myself a gazillion dollars,” laughs Corgan, sat in the middle of a slightly dated hotel suite, which, according to him, resembles a “granny flat”. “It’s the mouldy death part that scares me,” he continues. “I know what I was thinking when I was 21 and I watched some fucking old crustacean get up there and plod around,” he laughs, exasperated. “Here’s my theoretical brutality on it all – if you can’t supersede what you did before, you don’t belong out there.”

“It doesn’t sound dated,” says Billy of ‘Monuments To An Elegy,’ “like something from the past. I’ve been in that position too many times. Pop is the new pornography. It’s not Elvis shaking his hips that you need to be worried about, it’s Iggy and JLo rubbing their butts against each other. Rock seems very flat-footed to respond to the speed and sensorial necessity of the crowd to be titillated. I really don’t want be in a corner of the world’s cultural market that is making itself more and more irrelevant by the day, and celebrating its irrelevance. Do I wanna sit and look at my old pictures for two hours? No.”

“In 1984 when I started going out to the alternative clubs, I had the ‘Robert Smith’,” he reflects. “That haircut. I would go to wait for the bus at midnight, and guys would pull up in cars and threaten me with my life - for the haircut. That’s alternative. Kurt [Cobain] and Company made alternative music big business,” continues Billy. “All I’m asking is don’t ask me to wave a flag for something that doesn’t mean anything anymore, and then don’t give me shit when I don’t want to wave the flag, as if I’m being cranky.”

Intended as a conclusion to the expectation, tabloid gossip, and petty ridicule that has followed Corgan around more or less since ‘Mellon Collie…’ came out in 1995 and the original line-up disbanded, ‘Monuments To An Elegy’ marks the final backward look. True to name, it’s apparently something of an abandoned memorial to the band’s muddy and complicated history, too. “There’s a sense of futility, or something being lost…” Billy begins, before abruptly shifting tact. “I’ll tell you this story,” he announces suddenly. “I’m walking along and I see this World War I monument. It’s all dirty and there’s garbage, but at some point this really meant something to somebody. Right now it’s just something that people walk past when they’re looking at their cell phones. There’s a feeling sometimes, that with my life, or my musical life, I did these great things. It’s no different than a plaque on a wall. Now it’s all down to what Courtney [Love] said about Billy.”

Looking back over The Smashing Pumpkins’ long journey to ‘Monuments To An Elegy’, Billy Corgan flatly says that he’s not happy with how things went down. “Obviously I went on this weird journey for some reason,” he ponders. ”I would stick by the statement that the original [Smashing Pumpkins] not staying together or sorting out its issues was idiotic. I wish the band would’ve done what the band was meant to do. We didn’t, through our own darkness, blow something up that was quite magical – that’s the shame.”

Widespread press reports took Billy Corgan’s claim that he was planning to “bail on this ship for good,” following ‘Monuments…’ and the linked second release ‘Day For Night’ as intention to pack in The Smashing Pumpkins if he misses out on the reception that he’s looking for.

Billy insists that his words have been misinterpreted. “This ship,” he clarifies “[is] all that kind of stuff where you go, why am I out here slinging hash when other things seem less difficult for people to understand? We’ve all been to that show. Classic band, new album out,” he says, before briefly singing a short excerpt of ‘Stone Cold’ by Rainbow. “They play a bunch of their classics and everyone’s fucking jacked. I don’t wanna live that life; death of a thousand cuts,” he adds. “I’d rather be home with my puppies.”

f you can’t supersede what you did before, you don’t belong out there

Geez what a hypocrite

Uh oh

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>HORRIBLE interview (surprised <a href="https://twitter.com/Billy">@Billy</a> didn't just get up and leave). has anyone seen this picture before? <a href="http://t.co/roGfst3Swm">http://t.co/roGfst3Swm</a></p>&mdash; MonteLDS (@MonteLDS) <a href="https://twitter.com/MonteLDS/status/540705965100638209">December 5, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Back in the nineties you were a guy with pale makeup, wild-eyed and strange outfits, and the Smashing Pumpkins had their most successful period. How So?
Hard to say. I believe that many of our listeners came from difficult family situations. That they had noticed the flip side of the American dream. Many people with whom I grew up, came from broken homes or were abused - not just me.

They gave them a voice?
Yes. Many bands from this period have addressed issues that have long been taboo. Maybe it had to do with the revolution of the talk shows. When I was growing up, was spoken on TV more often about ill-treatment. All of America talked about what happened with the people at home.

Was this taboo secret to the success of the band?
I think a lot of people were confused like us and have again found therein. And that was a special energy in the air. Grunge was indeed a commercial success, but not for commercial purposes.

Were you aware of these musical movement?
No, that was just the zeitgeist. And we were in our twenties and defined us through music.

Her childhood and adolescence was not funny, and you are not known to be particularly relaxed. Nevertheless song you succeed again and again by angular beauty. How?
It's simple: Because require these poles. It can be yes to his feelings. And then chooses symbols that ******* a force. Picasso is said to have painted the Madonna 42 times. 42 times he has returned to the image of the Virgin. If that's not a sign! Man returns as an artist again and again to the open questions of his life back.

Their music is today less rebellious than before. Their new album seems almost tame.
I'm not quite agree. The sound is also due time. The nineties were a time of great emotional aggression. The guitar was a weapon. If today I would make music, it would mean, I lived in the past. The aggression has adopted a different face.

Reflect today the zeitgeist as with the grunge music - or are you simply become older and tamer?
Very funny. Fuck you! Seriously: Fuck you! What is the weather today ?! A bunch of hypnotized kids before their smartphones and computers.

So it is a front, yes.
And what kind of sound would you do if you are surrounded by such people?

Probably loud rock music.
Believe me, I am easily able to read, to play merciless rock'n'roll. But this I get people not from their virtual magic show. You wake up when they hear something that is a mystery to them.

You want to sneak in?
I do not make art for myself. Then I would not publish it, yes. I make art for people like you who do not listen for any reason. I want to achieve, which I will give to my message. And yet, I'm not a fashion show, no freak show, not porn.

They created with the Smashing Pumpkins a monster. Would you do certain things from that era like to undo?
Fuck, why should I? The monster then cut right on the plaster. Therefore, it even 20 years later is still an issue.

Which band is currently raises interesting questions?
I think you should say: U2.

Did you delete the free album?
I do not have iTunes, so there was nothing to delete. But I will listen to it certainly. The whole discussion about Free Culture I am following with some amusement. The Smashing Pumpkins already published in 2000, a free album. We were the first. 14 years later we're still in the same debate.

Have you found a solution?
No. Applies to the music industry so as before: Here is a piece of plastic, will pay you. Here a digital file, figure it. Since not much has changed since 2000. There is no acceptable alternative.

Would you re-release a free album?
No. It was a waste of time.

So Radiohead were just lucky?
This is a silly question. The audience decides whether it wants it or not. I've sold albums, and I have given away albums. Each has its good and its bad sides. There is no right way. It is only important to know: Good music will always prevail.

Are the problems of the music industry an exciting challenge?
No, the biggest challenge is still to make music that convinced the people of their own. Then all the other questions superfluous. If they do not like your music, you have on your knees and beg rumrutschen. I will never do.

Geez what a hypocrite

That and that whole line of thinking is idiotic and assbackwards. He's thinking of art in terms of commerce and capitalism rather than an artistic process. Take Picasso for instance, a favorite Billy example, his blue period isn't worse than his cubist period, it's just very different and elicits different responses and reflects a different time in his life, and he wouldn't have arrived at his cubist style without his previous work. A book written today isn't necessarily better than a book written 200 years ago, and so on. Music works the same way for me, different moods and situations call for different types of music/albums.

Billy's work hasn't become better over time, it's certainly different, but not "better" per se.

Uh oh

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>HORRIBLE interview (surprised <a href="https://twitter.com/Billy">@Billy</a> didn't just get up and leave). has anyone seen this picture before? <a href="http://t.co/roGfst3Swm">http://t.co/roGfst3Swm</a></p>&mdash; MonteLDS (@MonteLDS) <a href="https://twitter.com/MonteLDS/status/540705965100638209">December 5, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Nothing seemed horrible at all about the interview. The person asked relevant questions and seemed curious about the band. Not all interviews are going to be an ass kiss fest.

He's thinking of art in terms of commerce and capitalism rather than an artistic process. Take Picasso for instance, a favorite Billy example, his blue period isn't worse than his cubist period, it's just very different and elicits different responses and reflects a different time in his life, and he wouldn't have arrived at his cubist style without his previous work.

Interesting that you bring this up. It's actually an argument I used in 2008 to defend Billy against critics of Zeitgeist and the new era Pumpkins:

That's sort of how I see it... You have to consider it as a body of work... nobody says Picasso sucked after Les Demoiselles d'Avignon just because the later work didn't fit into it as well...

Bad example, but you know what I mean... take what you can, appreciate we get what we get...

not to mention, they're still fucking amazing!

Not saying "I said it first" or anything - it's just pretty interesting to me that the example I used to defend Billy and his work now applies equally well to defend him against his own line of thinking, as you've pointed out.

It's not an unusual line of thought. I had a professor who went into long pontifications about art, perception, and critique. My line of thought was pretty much influenced by him. I think you'll find many people in the art world (museum works, art dealers, serious art critics, certain professors) tend to have that line of thinking (but are far more articulate and eloquent than I am).

the album is too long. it's hard to believe it's only half an hour. it takes effort to get through the whole thing.

has anyone seen the booklet in it's entirety? i really hope they did a ridiculous photo shoot with Billy, Jeff, and Tommy. if so, i can't wait to see it...maybe Bill could've convinced them all to put on some of his old dresses. doubt it'll be anything so cool...

:dammit:

Anyway, Tiberius, One And All, Anaise and Drum & Fife are by far the best tracks on the album.

and i thought the web rip floating around sounded so much better from the early YouTube posts...

but things get much more interesting experiencing this album in lossless, it has made me appreciate it more. though no matter how much higher the quality you go, it will never save you from these atrocious lyrics. but overall production is loads better than Oceania and find myself enjoying it more. but it doesn't really feel like an album being so short, more like a collection of tracks. it loses that journey feeling Pumpkins records usually have. even Oceania had that going for it.

and i thought the web rip floating around sounded so much better from the early YouTube posts...

but things get much more interesting experiencing this album in lossless, it has made me appreciate it more. though no matter how much higher the quality you go, it will never save you from these atrocious lyrics. but overall production is loads better than Oceania and find myself enjoying it more. but it doesn't really feel like an album being so short, more like a collection of tracks. it loses that journey feeling Pumpkins records usually have. even Oceania had that going for it.

Agreed on the production point. Saving the final verdict for when I get it on vinyl.

I just think the whole "it's too short" thing is fucking priceless. This forum ripped Billy a new one for being "old and out of touch" by making Oceania so long. LOL

The guardian gave it 3 out of 5. And said Dorian was a standout track...don't know about that...

The guardian gave it 3 out of 5. And said Dorian was a standout track...don't know about that...

Dorian is a standout tho.

and yeah i've noticed that short albums seem to be the tend now. IT's like we're back to the early 80's. For years it seemed almost unthinkable to release a record with less than ten tracks. I think this is the third record i listened to this year that has 9.

I think short albums are nice because technically, that gives you less a chance to fuck it up by having too many fillers.... technically. BUt like let's say you have a 12 songs record, and 6 are really good. You still only have half a record of good songs. If you have 6 great tracks on a 9 songs record, that's 2/3. That makes it look a lot better even if technically you still have the same amount of good songs. I know i've rarely heard a 14 or more songs record where at east 4 or 5 tracks didn't seem unnecessary. Only classics can pull that off.

Agreed on the production point. Saving the final verdict for when I get it on vinyl.

I just think the whole "it's too short" thing is fucking priceless. This forum ripped Billy a new one for being "old and out of touch" by making Oceania so long. LOL

I enjoy sitting down and listening to a full album. I'm not a part of this new A.D.D. generation. Fuck that whole "album is too long" crap. Give me a journey, give me an experience... I'll take that over some short and sweet there and gone crap. The people calling Billy "out of touch" for writing a long album are "out of touch." Now the real problem with a long album is that it better be a damn good album and able to hold your attention throughout. Something great will hold your attention. Screw all those folks saying the album format is dead. It comes down to bands need to deliver a great album. It's not that Oceania was too long, it's just that Billy's songwriting isn't up to what it used to be making it feel long. But damn, Billy's been hanging in there for a long time so it's gotta be tough and he doesn't have the creative people around him that he used to have. Who you have around is an important part to the whole process. Even if some of those people are volatile lol. It helps drive you and get that energy out from inside. If Billy just has a bunch of folks looking up to him, kissing his ass, and saying "Yes, sir" that's not gonna help the situation.

9 tracks is bullshit... it's not an official album until you cross 10 tracks in my book. :P

Standout is an interesting word

Like Monuments is a standout because it sucks

Standout is an interesting word

Like Monuments is a standout because it sucks

Monuments is a pretty great song, IMO. But it sounds like Muse and I love Muse.

Monuments is a pretty great song, IMO. But it sounds like Muse and I love Muse.

Yes, Muse! Absolution is my favorite album.

Yes, Muse! Absolution is my favorite album.

I can't pick. Origin and Abso are my favorites equally. I have a soft spot for The Resistance though.

I can't pick. Origin and Abso are my favorites equally. I have a soft spot for The Resistance though.

I don't want to derail the thread with Muse because I can go on and on. :P
But I shot ya a PM in regards to bonus tracks and b-sides.

Listened to it the whole way through twice today and really enjoying it. Absolutely flies by. Probably my favourite Billy album since MSOTS.

'Monuments' sounds nothing like Muse. I don't understand how anyone could reach that conclusion.

'Monuments' sounds nothing like Muse. I don't understand how anyone could reach that conclusion.

A few tracks on this album do have Muse-esque kinda vibe to 'em.
The less cinematic, more electronic-incorporated Muse (from Black Holes album on).
Not vocally or lyrically, of course... just musically. No way Billy can match Muse vocally.
Billy's mix of rock and his synth sounds do remind me a bit of them.
Less cinematic/operatic... give me something more cinematic, Billy.

I do wish there were more than 9 songs but I do like what's here for the most part. I hope the album format never goes away and that he goes back to making longer albums.

and yeah i've noticed that short albums seem to be the tend now. IT's like we're back to the early 80's. For years it seemed almost unthinkable to release a record with less than ten tracks. I think this is the third record i listened to this year that has 9.


it's pretty simple. one record can hold around less than 40 minutes of music. then cd's came along and you got almost double that time. when they made vinyl editions of cd's they were limited because you had to press the thing on 2-3 discs (much expensive). now cd's are dead, records are popular, so artists are going back to the original time format.

This pop shit sucks. Oceania was promising, but this is a step back. Corgan had more edge when he was still tapping into prog rock and metal.

its simple. billy writes two kinds of songs these days. either personal songs written on the piano or guitar jams written in the studio. these days he doesn't have a band to jam with.

'Monuments' sounds nothing like Muse. I don't understand how anyone could reach that conclusion.

k

9 tracks is bullshit... it's not an official album until you cross 10 tracks in my book. :P

Umm

http://thoughtontracks.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/a_love_supreme.jpg

It doesn't count because it's a whopping 30 seconds longer than MTAE

well this arbitrary line in the sand should keep you dudes busy for a while

houses of the holy could've been badass but it was only 8 tracks and 30 mins

All albums should be 14 tracks and 57:34 long. No exceptions.

Though I wish he didn't cop out on answering the question about the cover and how it relates to the album name/theme.

a bit more on the photos for MTAE

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gGSNsCzP08M?list=UUAOOGnUiwzWs-p_TQbzdUEw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




the whole thing has 5 or 6 parts, this one is nice, around 4:50

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YS8uJmFmfO8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SP artistic design has gone to absolute shit

It's just scribbles and random colors

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4IaHbRIEAAP4FF.jpg

Straight to talking about kids in those interviews and how we're dumb and don't get it.

Stop.

Most kids in the 90's had shitty tastes too

Most people don't care about Joey Ramone like we do Billy, there's a reason we call this stuff Alternative

Umm

http://thoughtontracks.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/a_love_supreme.jpg

well of course this is different, this is from the 60's.

my bad, maybe i should clarify... with the introduction of the CD any album less than 10 tracks shouldn't count as an album.

back in the day, having an album longer than 30 minutes was a ludicrous thought.
plus you had to adhere to the length of a vinyl back then since it was really the popular and only real format at the time.

now that digital music is taking over music can now surpass the 76 minute limit CD's put on artists.

All albums should be 14 tracks and 57:34 long. No exceptions.

If only Hail to the Thief were a minute longer, then it wouldn't be Radiohead's second worst album.

well of course this is different, this is from the 60's.

my bad, maybe i should clarify... with the introduction of the CD any album less than 10 tracks shouldn't count as an album.

Counterexamples:
Dinosaur Jr - Bug
Sonic Youth - Murray Street
Joanna Newsom - Ys
Many Boris albums
Both Japandroids albums, who can also cite some short albums (http://japandroids.com/)


now that digital music is taking over music can now surpass the 76 minute limit CD's put on artists.

Counterexample:
Bull of Heaven

ought implies can, not the other way around

In 1957, Coltrane was fired from Miles Davis' band for being strung out. At the time, this job, as you could imagine, was one of the top jobs you could have in jazz. That might have been the turning point for Trane, and he finally quit heroin, having his mother and wife lock him in a room to detox. From that moment, he began a spiritual journey towards God that would lead to his album, "A Love Supreme." And that supreme love he's talking about, well, it's a love for a higher power.

Coltrane's symphonic masterpiece is considered a musical suite -- a composition told in four parts linked by theme and motif. Don't worry, I'm not going to get too music geek on you right now, but it's important to note the sections of the album: 1. Acknowledgment 2. Resolution. 3. Pursuance. 4. Psalm. Throughout the album, Coltrane is taking you on a trip, using improvisation and themes as a vehicle to tell the story of his struggle with addiction and the path towards God
<b>

lol are you guys being serious right now? number of tracks doesn't count for anything. it's about time.

Yes that's why I referred to Dino Jr and Japandroids

it

doesn't

fucking

matter

but duly noted shallowed because lord knows when i think back on the entire history of recorded music the two bands that come to mind are always dinosaur fucking jr and japandroids

MyKeyZ had reiterated that he doesn't think that any release that has less than ten tracks should be considered an album but only if it was released specifically after the introduction of CDs

also my CD shelf isn't quite as expansive as the entire history of recorded music

a bit more on the photos for MTAE
the whole thing has 5 or 6 parts, this one is nice, around 4:50


Thanks, pave.

The thing about Yelena was interesting, but he still didn't really talk much in depth about the album artwork and he doesn't seem to want to.

I love how Billy's backtracking on his comment on quitting if he doesn't sell enough records. He has said it so many times in the past and has even said it to fans in private, he never does it of course, but there's no reason for him to pretend like everyone is crazy.

"Living in Chicago is like living in Alaska"…that's really quite a prickish thing to say.

I still can't wrap my head around why he's so fucking hung up on millennials. He thinks they're shallow and jacked up on visual porn, but still he wants them to acknowledge him. But at least he kind of acknowledged that MTAE is a shallow album.

Still, there were some interesting moments in those interview parts. What's interesting is how he talks about how grunge and early 90s alternative music came about, how it was really quite innocent and none of them really even thought about making music for "the kids" or fill arenas and that most of what they did was for friends. I wonder if he has ever stopped to think why he's so hung up on fame and popularity now, when he says he didn't care about it before. He even started talking about his website analytics in the interview. Fucking Christ.

Billy also looks uncomfortable and really insecure in this interview, just his entire body language is so awkward. It's like watching a giant fidgeting child. I don't remember him ever being like this in the past. What the hell happened to him over the past couple of years.

...

Anyway, you mentioned the Guardian earlier, I just read their review. They seem to be the only ones who have caught on to the fact that MTAE isn't a happy album full of happy love songs.

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/dec/04/smashing-pumpkins-monuments-to-an-elegy-review

Kot from the Chicago Tribune gave it a 4/5 but the review is far more critical than the high rating suggests, which is odd.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/kot/ct-music-smashing-pumpkins-monuments-elegy-billy-corgan-20141205-column.html

I miss yelena :(

I miss yelena :(

Billy probably does, too.

"Living in Chicago is like living in Alaska"…that's really quite a prickish thing to say.

especially since the dude lives in fucking Highland Park.

it kinda IS like alaska up there, actually.