View Full Version : Post itt if you are done with the Pumpkins is MTAE and DFN Suck


Butt Pope
11-13-2014, 03:14 PM
If these two albums suck, it's gotta be over for Billy, right? I mean, he puts out the occasional OK song these days, but the quality has now been questionable for years. Many on this board seem to think that TFE was his last breath of fresh air.

So if MTAE and DFN are turrible, will you continue to post here? Will you stop following the Billy Corgan Project (featuring the Shredder and Heroin McCokedrums)?

I think I might. I'll probably just post here after 3 beers and that doesn't happen much these days because I'm old.

T&T
11-13-2014, 03:35 PM
I can't wait to see all the yage (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=YAGE) caused by these albums (and future releases)

Mals Marola
11-13-2014, 03:40 PM
at worst it'll set the so-called bar of expectations a bar or two lower

oceania set a pretty good road for these two in that regard i think

pumpkinfan1988
11-13-2014, 03:54 PM
The greater question, continue to buy their music and attend their shows? In that case probably not. Who wants to pay to listen to mediocre music? I bought Oceania, but I honestly don't see myself purchasing music from MTAE. If D4N ends up being really good I'll buy it.

s0ss
11-13-2014, 05:12 PM
I stopped buying their music since MCIS. You fucks.

Butt Pope
11-13-2014, 05:18 PM
You should check out Adore. It's got some good moments.

Grox
11-13-2014, 05:42 PM
Machina, too. Some fans say that Machina II (released exclusively online for free just before the original band split) is even better.

Catherine Wheel
11-13-2014, 05:46 PM
I'm quite fond of Machina and Machina 2. It's the only reissue I'll probably buy. I'm dying to hear the better mixed versions of the Machina 2 songs as well as see the Machina artwork that probably wasn't available before. I love the visual aesthetic from that era.

Shallowed
11-13-2014, 05:53 PM
If you were going to be "done with this band" then you should have been done with it before 2010. Get with the times.

slunken
11-13-2014, 05:57 PM
So if MTAE and DFN are turrible, will you continue to post here?


So you're assuming that everybody posting here didn't think anything in the past was terrible?

Or are you just addressing the new posters? Why are all the new posters so negative?

Shallowed
11-13-2014, 06:03 PM
because they want to fit in with their image of Hatephoria

Order 66
11-13-2014, 06:08 PM
i think the abysmal sales numbers of those albums speaks volumes. i will definitely not be buying their albums anymore

Mals Marola
11-13-2014, 06:44 PM
So you're assuming that everybody posting here didn't think anything in the past was terrible?

i think it was more of a "last straw" scenario

smashingschnauz
11-13-2014, 06:52 PM
No, I'll continue to support my favorite artist of all time. I liked Oceania and I like these new songs so far.

MyOneAndOnly
11-13-2014, 07:36 PM
Casual fans

MyOneAndOnly
11-13-2014, 07:38 PM
I think this will suck worse than anything he has ever released (except for the TBK EPs)

IMO Oceania was a Zwan situation. He started something and abandoned it and the peoople involved causebe he didn't get the popular acclaim that he craves.

Order 66
11-13-2014, 07:55 PM
my coworkers really dig all for one. and i didn't even play it for them they came up to me about how they heard it on the radio or whatever

not that they have good taste but they hated everything i want is free, for reference

slunken
11-13-2014, 08:19 PM
i think it was more of a "last straw" scenario

i hope its more of a last straw for bill himself tbh

Mals Marola
11-13-2014, 09:22 PM
I think this will suck worse than anything he has ever released

lol

well at least we're keeping our preparations positive

reprise85
11-13-2014, 09:53 PM
i dunno, pretty hard to suck worse than some of the original teargarden songs.

Mals Marola
11-13-2014, 09:59 PM
say what you want about oceania things sure went a lot better/less scarily then i would have predicted after

http://cbswxrt2.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/billy_385.jpg?w=420

Shallowed
11-14-2014, 03:33 AM
Has there been any other SP song that received upon release as Widow Wake My Mind did? Talk about tripping up over the starting blocks, two songs into the project.

houseofglass11
11-14-2014, 04:25 AM
Despite all my yage I still returned to post on this page.

Saih
11-14-2014, 06:56 AM
The last SP things I bought was a Zeitgeist CD and a ticket to that tour.

I seldom post and visit here, only in the event when there's new material or older demo's surfacing.
I haven't been excited for SP since 2006 or so but I still listen to Pumpkins & Zwan stuff each week.

Slurpee
11-14-2014, 04:35 PM
My expectations are falling in tandem with the quality of the music, so there would have to be a steep drop in the songs (possible) or a big jump in expectations (nope) for me to give up.

dreams of glass
11-14-2014, 04:55 PM
My expectations were pretty high a few days ago, but I've since accepted reality. There will probably be a few stand out tracks, (Anaise sounds very promising, maybe Anti-Hero), but I think MTAE will mostly be forgettable and neutered. I haven't even listened to All for One beyond the half dozen times I listened to it when it dropped. Not a good sign.

I don't think I will stop liking the pumpkins stuff I like though, and I'll still want to talk about it with others and find out about rare shit I haven't heard.

dreams of glass
11-14-2014, 04:58 PM
And if Billy ever retires the SP moniker and does another straight up "solo" record, like just his voice, guitar, and/or piano, then I will be all over that.

Order 66
11-14-2014, 05:24 PM
wish he'd do another electronica album. like a low key little side project. kind of weird he has all those high end synths just to make little arpeggios hidden behind walls of guitars

werideatdusk
11-14-2014, 06:15 PM
he seems to think this is the end of the road for SP for the time being.
it's a little premature to talk about this, because we also have a new live band lineup set to debut next month that we have no idea about.
despite the possible soiling of the SP legacy with some subpar material, i've enjoyed going to SP shows over the last few years.
that said, I'd also be happy to see BC & friends.

my guess is he's going to retire the sp name for a while, do some experimental shit, release his book, and then maybe he and jimmy will work on something again, something less commercial. i really hope so.

D.
11-14-2014, 06:19 PM
Three spins of Oceania is the last I have or will ever even bother with Pumpkins 2.0.

CrabbMan
11-14-2014, 07:20 PM
I will probably listen to everything SP/Billy puts out, at least a few times. Except for a few moments, I don't particularly care for Oceania. But that won't stop me from giving him a fresh chance each time. I don't think it's too uncommon for artists or bands to have a decade or two of stagnation, and come out with some brilliant out of nowhere. It can happen.

Spira|_
11-14-2014, 08:05 PM
I will be around forever. I want to know how Billy's story will end.
Independently of the quality of the music he will release in the future.

And I believe he will do good music again when he gets in with other project different from SP.

bigoltitties
11-14-2014, 08:44 PM
its funny all these people who think Billys gonna somehow give them something that compares with MCIS. No artist every has been able to do that. John Lennon and Paul McCartney etc. dont get abuse because they couldnt recreate what they gave to people. Name your fucking band, No artist ever is able to reproduce the feeling they were able when they were 25.

Billy is 46 (?) years old, and you still expect he's going to give you something thats going to set your life in fire. Grow up. The hate billy gets for not being what he was twenty years ago is unrealistic and childish. He was and is a great artist who has given us countless songs we will all cherish until the day we die. He's doing the best he can in his current circumstances, if you dont like it, fuck off. At least he's still forging ahead despite his many faults.

He has made alot of mistakes musically particularly in the last few years but his talent is still evident so i will most certainly be sticking around listening out for that.

pumpkinfan1988
11-14-2014, 10:16 PM
its funny all these people who think Billys gonna somehow give them something that compares with MCIS. No artist every has been able to do that. John Lennon and Paul McCartney etc. dont get abuse because they couldnt recreate what they gave to people. Name your fucking band, No artist ever is able to reproduce the feeling they were able when they were 25.

Billy is 46 (?) years old, and you still expect he's going to give you something thats going to set your life in fire. Grow up. The hate billy gets for not being what he was twenty years ago is unrealistic and childish. He was and is a great artist who has given us countless songs we will all cherish until the day we die. He's doing the best he can in his current circumstances, if you dont like it, fuck off. At least he's still forging ahead despite his many faults.

He has made alot of mistakes musically particularly in the last few years but his talent is still evident so i will most certainly be sticking around listening out for that.

You're right! Albert Einstein proposed his theory of relativity at age 26. Having said that music isn't physics...or is it?

chotchkiss
11-14-2014, 10:16 PM
I think the Flaming Lips have been pretty consistent for 20 years. Sure they have had some lulls - during the 2000s, and their really rough garage days in the 80s and early 90s. 1999's The Soft Bulletin was a peak for them, but I think they had another peak with 2009's Embryonic in a more experimental moody direction than their polished for-the-masses stuff in the 2000s.

I like how they've been sort of playing around over the last several years with crazy collaborations, cover albums (Dark Side of the Moon and Sgt. Pepper's) and side projects. I could see Billy being more excited and engaged if he played around with collaborations, experimental albums, side projects and stuff like that. We've maybe seen some of that with Ravinia and Aegea.

I don't think The Flaming Lips have a Howard in their studio telling them to reign in all the weirdo, psychedelic, experimental, crazy stuff they do. I think Billy's trying to indulge his more experimental side (Siddhartha and Aegea), but he's keeping things polarized, whereas The Lips lump it all together.

The Lips seem to be realizing some revenue too. I was reading on Quora the other day about the music business. There is a great answer (see link at end of post) about where the money is in the music business. It seems to be in early and pre-teens, since late teens through mid-30s don't buy much music because they get it free on the internet and the older demographic doesn't buy much new music because they focus on their old favorites. I've also heard there's money in higher end products for super-fans, touring especially internationally. I see Billy going after a few angles here with merchandise for super fans (I know, I know about the tea, there could be improvement), an album that skews young and mainstream, international touring, . . .

I love The Pumpkins live more than any other aspect of the band. That's where they really shine. Sometimes I think most people don't know what The Pumpkins are like live and if they knew, The Pumpkins would be more popular. It's as if the strongest side of the band is hidden except to those choose to go to shows (on the basis of albums I presume most of the time). Maybe he should do more promoted concerts like AOL and Guitar Center shows.

The Flaming Lips are in a pretty good spot, and I hope Billy finds his happy (and musically productive) groove as The Flaming Lips seem to have after over 30 years as a band.

http://www.quora.com/Is-rock-and-roll-dying-Why-havent-new-bands-emerged-that-can-play-40-000-stadiums/answer/Tom-Higley

iPumpkin
11-15-2014, 12:46 AM
I am all-in on the Bill experience. I love the ups/downs the crazy interviews, band member rotations, bizarre styling choices, ultra weight gain/loss.

It's entertaining and has a cool connection to my youth.

Once in a while Bill puts out some great stuff and it's enjoyable. Sometimes there is a stinker but I just skip it and don't get all worked up over it.

I do miss JC tho.

Starla
11-15-2014, 01:01 AM
big ol titties is correct

ZackZ
11-15-2014, 03:44 AM
I kindof like the new album. It sounds like Billy. Oceania was pure crap. This sounds like 40+ year old Billy. Ya, his drummer sucks ultimate ass, but I think he just said "fuck it" and did what he could. Big guitars, decent hooks, etc. I liked Zeitgiest despite Billy trying to "sing". His voice is really not great. He needs to go back to schreeching. I give him credit for trying to sing. He can't go back to 1994. That's over. It's like Paul or Ringo after the Beatles. Except they did it it 1-2 years later, not 15. Regardless, I like it. I haven't liked anything since Zeitgeist. I saw the "Pumpkins" on the Oceania tour...Annberlin outdid them. I think with this album, they might have something.

bye june
11-15-2014, 11:43 AM
I think the Flaming Lips have been pretty consistent for 20 years.

I love The Lips.

Dinosaur Jr. are still putting out great records too.

Butt Pope
11-15-2014, 03:34 PM
big ol titties is correct

This made me think of Nicole.

werideatdusk
11-15-2014, 05:06 PM
Great thread.

Even though I have mixed feelings about a lot of the material since 2000, I still have enjoyed the ride and the ups and downs, and there are definitely standout songs that will stay with me, and great concert experiences (particularly in 08, 11, and 14 - Ravinia), and even a few chance encounters with band members (billy, jimmy, mike, nicole)... for me it's been a great time to continue being a fan even if its become more of a personal thing as most of my friends have moved on, and they are not well known as a current band.

werideatdusk
11-15-2014, 05:10 PM
and a lot of people complain that billy is phoning in his music and i completely disagree. even his lame tracks from the last few years still have some urgency and some attempt to do something new. But I do agree that the magic of the 92-96 era is long gone.

Elphenor
11-15-2014, 05:10 PM
At this point if you're still following Billy you're following him for life I would think

iPumpkin
11-15-2014, 08:49 PM
At this point if you're still following Billy you're following him for life I would think

this is true. what could he possibly do at this point that would turn someone off that has been around for the last 25 years.

Mals Marola
11-15-2014, 09:00 PM
right i feel like it would be kinda like all the fairweather fans who abandoned the red sox for however many years then rushed back to the stands after they started winning games/got the world series

if you actively chose to never pay attention to him or his work again i mean
gradually losing interest is another thing, pretty much

myosis
11-15-2014, 09:10 PM
its funny all these people who think Billys gonna somehow give them something that compares with MCIS. No artist every has been able to do that. John Lennon and Paul McCartney etc. dont get abuse because they couldnt recreate what they gave to people. Name your fucking band, No artist ever is able to reproduce the feeling they were able when they were 25.

Billy is 46 (?) years old, and you still expect he's going to give you something thats going to set your life in fire. Grow up. The hate billy gets for not being what he was twenty years ago is unrealistic and childish. He was and is a great artist who has given us countless songs we will all cherish until the day we die. He's doing the best he can in his current circumstances, if you dont like it, fuck off. At least he's still forging ahead despite his many faults.

He has made alot of mistakes musically particularly in the last few years but his talent is still evident so i will most certainly be sticking around listening out for that.
i don't know why you tell us that when it's billy corgan who needs to understand this. he's the one who expects he will put out something that will set the world on fire.

bigoltitties
11-16-2014, 11:46 AM
big ol titties is amazingly insightful, empathetic, and informed. Thank you big ol titties.

I can't tell if you're taking the piss here so I'll just say thanks. I was pretty drunk when I wrote that so clearly the booze brings out the Billy (William)(Willy??) fan boy in me.

Id agree with Elphenor, if you're still here now having endured Teargarden, you're in it for the long haul. Wondering if the 40's is a particularly uninspired decade for writers. Seems to me like a lot of great artists suffer particularly in there for 40's only to come back stronger in their later years if they persist (Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Neil Young). Can anyone think of an artist where their 40's represented a good decade for them creatively? I would argue that compared to many of his peers at his age, Billy's output now (while diminished), is quite impressive.

Also love the Flaming Lips but I think they've had a major dip in form ever since Yoshimi. Clouds Taste Metallic / Soft Bulletin was when they were at their peak (Evil will Prevail probably my favourite track of theirs). Any songs of theirs in recent years that stand up to that material? Would appreciate any suggestions. I'm being lazy asking but I don't have the patience to wade through their experimental stuff which im not really into.

bigoltitties
11-16-2014, 11:47 AM
big ol titties is amazingly insightful, empathetic, and informed. Thank you big ol titties.

I can't tell if you're taking the piss here so I'll just say thanks. I was pretty drunk when I wrote that so clearly the booze brings out the Billy (William)(Willy??) fan boy in me.

Id agree with Elphenor, if you're still here now having endured Teargarden, you're in it for the long haul. Wondering if the 40's is a particularly uninspired decade for writers. Seems to me like a lot of great artists suffer particularly in there for 40's only to come back stronger in their later years if they persist (Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Neil Young). Can anyone think of an artist where their 40's represented a good decade for them creatively? I would argue that compared to many of his peers at his age, Billy's output now (while diminished), is quite impressive, and im pretty optimistic that we'll get some great music from him again in his later years.

Also love the Flaming Lips but I think they've had a major dip in form ever since Yoshimi. Clouds Taste Metallic / Soft Bulletin was when they were at their peak (Evil will Prevail probably my favourite track of theirs). Any songs of theirs in recent years that stand up to that material? Would appreciate any suggestions. I'm being lazy asking but I don't have the patience to wade through their experimental stuff which im not really into.

Mals Marola
11-16-2014, 11:55 AM
big ol titties is amazingly insightful, empathetic, and informed. Thank you big ol titties.

He can't tell if you're taking the piss here so he'll just say thanks. He was pretty drunk when he wrote that so clearly the booze brings out the Billy (William)(Willy??) fan boy in him.

He'd agree with Elphenor, if you're still here now having endured Teargarden, you're in it for the long haul. Wondering if the 40's is a particularly uninspired decade for writers. Seems to titties like a lot of great artists suffer particularly in there for 40's only to come back stronger in their later years if they persist (Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Neil Young). Can anyone think of an artist where their 40's represented a good decade for them creatively? He (titties) would argue that compared to many of his peers at his age, Billy's output now (while diminished), is quite impressive, and he's pretty optimistic that we'll get some great music from him again in his later years.

Bigoltitties also loves the Flaming Lips but he thinks they've had a major dip in form ever since Yoshimi. Clouds Taste Metallic / Soft Bulletin was when they were at their peak (Evil will Prevail probably his favourite track of theirs). Any songs of theirs in recent years that stand up to that material? Would appreciate any suggestions. He's being lazy asking but he doesn't have the patience to wade through their experimental stuff which he's not really into.

werideatdusk
11-16-2014, 01:36 PM
Out of all Corgan's contemporaries, I think only Trent Reznor has fared better. NIN has been consistently high quality and still "feels" like NIN. Of course, it's easier when it's always been more clearly a solo act as opposed to the band that Smashing Pumpkins used to be. And Reznor is certainly a less ambitious songwriter.

werideatdusk
11-16-2014, 01:38 PM
Flaming Lips aren't worth comparing because they have always been comfortable with being a more or less underground band. SP has always been about trying to thread the needle of being somehow subversive and original while also getting on the charts.

killtrocity
11-16-2014, 03:35 PM
its funny all these people who think Billys gonna somehow give them something that compares with MCIS. No artist every has been able to do that. John Lennon and Paul McCartney etc. dont get abuse because they couldnt recreate what they gave to people. Name your fucking band, No artist ever is able to reproduce the feeling they were able when they were 25.


Sure, but artists can capture those different feelings with a similar level of quality if they age gracefully. There's a difference between recapturing the past and capturing the present honestly. Billy's recent material just seems disingenuous, like he's trying too hard to NOT create certain kinds of music. Like, quit thinking so much about people's expectations and comparing your own work to itself, and just do what you do best. Maybe he really does feel happy and the "oh oh oh, la la la" shit is an accurate reflection of how he feels at this point in his life, but if that's the case (and I honestly don't think it is), he's not conveying that feeling in a very effective way, in a way that people can relate to or understand. The quality just isn't there.

Bill: You would've worn the costume of Arlene Plimpton. But you were born Beatrix Kiddo. And every morning when you woke up, you'd still be Beatrix Kiddo. Oh, you can take the needle out.

The Bride: [does so] Are you calling me a superhero?

Bill: I'm calling you a killer. A natural born killer. You always have been, and you always will be. Moving to El Paso, working in a used record store, goin' to the movies with Tommy, clipping coupons. That's you, trying to disguise yourself as a worker bee That's you tryin' to blend in with the hive. But you're not a worker bee. You're a renegade killer bee. And no matter how much beer you drank or barbecue you ate or how fat your ass got, nothing in the world would ever change that.

killtrocity
11-16-2014, 03:39 PM
If you look at DAvid Bowie or Robert Smith, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who likes 4:13 Dream over Disintegration or Pornography, or The Next Day over Scary Monster or Ziggy, but those albums at least seem ingenuous.

The exception would be The Cure's self-titled album, which is Robert's Zeitgeist.

Mals Marola
11-16-2014, 04:59 PM
i fucking love the cure s/t

Shallowed
11-16-2014, 05:07 PM
I only just realised that the English of the title of this thread is broken.

apology for poor english

when were you when john lenin dies?

i was sat at home eating smegma butter when pjotr ring

'john is kill'

'no'

Mals Marola
11-16-2014, 06:12 PM
speaking of cure s/t, if you've only heard the N.A. version, this is the "proper" closing track and hot damn a track it is indeed...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/pW1YC74GC1U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

to quote youtube commenter pazzo linus, "so sad! too much? A part of the true."

actually it looks like the japanese version alone has 2 other additional tracks to what the north american release had, in addition to this one... interspersed with the album as well (vs. just tacked on at the end)

got damn that looks like the version to get

dreams of glass
11-17-2014, 01:58 AM
Someone should start a Cure appreciation thread. Is there one already?

Honestly, how do you know that Billy (er, um, I mean William) is being disingenuous? Do you have some sort of direct feed into his head? I mean, the whole notion of judging an artist based on whether they actually really truly feel what they're conveying is sort of pointless anyway. Do you think he feels like a rat in a cage every fuckin night he sings that song? No, but he's gonna do his job and make you feel that he is. Anyway, sayin all that, I really do think that MTAE is a genuine accurate reflection of where he's at, musically, artistically, as a human person, whatever. If it seems too safe, or benign, or beige, then maybe that's just how he's feeling.

dreams of glass
11-17-2014, 02:00 AM
And I like Scary Monsters.

Elphenor
11-17-2014, 02:22 AM
Yes a Cure thread already exists

Mals Marola
11-17-2014, 02:46 AM
surprisingly, last i checked, it was actually still involving conversations about the cure!

obviously we can't have any of that

Vriska Serket
11-23-2014, 04:27 PM
ive been done with this piece of shit band for a long long time

slunken
11-23-2014, 04:47 PM
i really hope dfn is the last album under the sp name. i just want it to stop.

freshfacedyouth
11-23-2014, 05:08 PM
and the night mare rides on

The exploding boy
11-23-2014, 05:48 PM
Someone should start a Cure appreciation thread. Is there one already?

Honestly, how do you know that Billy (er, um, I mean William) is being disingenuous? Do you have some sort of direct feed into his head? I mean, the whole notion of judging an artist based on whether they actually really truly feel what they're conveying is sort of pointless anyway. Do you think he feels like a rat in a cage every fuckin night he sings that song? No, but he's gonna do his job and make you feel that he is. Anyway, sayin all that, I really do think that MTAE is a genuine accurate reflection of where he's at, musically, artistically, as a human person, whatever. If it seems too safe, or benign, or beige, then maybe that's just how he's feeling.


Fitting to talk about the cure and then being disingenuous/"real because Robert Smith spent a good aprt of his career writing sad love songs when hes been with the same girl since he was 14. So everytime he sings about heartbreak or failed or unrequited love, it's not "real". But who gives a shit, he makes you believe it.


And (most) anything Cure past Wish is garbage. I mean fine for anyone to like it, it's their right, but it's garbage.

aztec litany service
11-25-2014, 11:54 AM
he should try a truly collaborative project [i.e. everyone having equal influence over the band's direction/songwriting]. you better believe bob and most other good artists never would've got where they did w/o their collaborators. bc has a lot to offer as a musician. when the old approach doesn't work anymore, try sth else. or don't, whatever.

dronestar
11-25-2014, 03:26 PM
Bill is a fucking disgrace.

Unfollowed on Twatter and Fcebonk today and we're getting divorced.

Some artists age gracefully and are batshit insane like Neil Young. He can still stick out a decent album every couple of years, whereas Bill can't finish anything he starts.

Being Beige says it all really. He's wallpaper.