View Full Version : why does MTAE suck so much?


Order 66
11-10-2014, 08:02 PM
i was listening to the songs today after class and couldn't help but wonder, why aren't they good? if you listen to something like siamese dream you notice how much better everything is.

they're albums by the same person, both have the same vocalists and inspirations, but there's just something missing.. my personal theory is this is due to the change of band members. notice how james brought the rawness. where is that in monuments to the elegy?

but that's just my personal theory. there are a lot of things wrong with the album but that's what sticks out the most with me

pumpkins
11-10-2014, 08:04 PM
How can we know given that we haven't listened to the songs?

Elvis The Fat Years
11-10-2014, 08:06 PM
because it doesn't sound like radiohead.

juliana
11-10-2014, 08:19 PM
Netphoria wasn't around back when he created SD. So Netphoria must be the problem.

Order 66
11-10-2014, 08:32 PM
i dont know how long netphoria has been around but i assume it could have been around that long because there was still AOL. but even if thats wrong it shouldnt be a crutch for making an inferior album nobody bought

The exploding boy
11-10-2014, 08:35 PM
Getting old is the issue. Why is this so hard to understand. Sick boy was always right.

Actually what it is is that you've realised your goal, your ambitions. You've put out the best work you could possibly put out and there's nowhere left to go after that. You might try to get yourself that motivated, that inspired, but it's essentially gone. The drive, the hunger, success will take it away. All you can do is to approximate it, at best.

MyOneAndOnly
11-10-2014, 08:36 PM
hard to think of another band that was as good with new material 20+ years after their zenith

Trotskilicious
11-10-2014, 08:39 PM
nick cave and the bad seeds, leonard cohen, swans, i could list more but you'd still say the same thing again tomorrow

Trotskilicious
11-10-2014, 08:39 PM
basically what ruins rock music is fame

well but cave and cohen are both basically famous so i dunno

The exploding boy
11-10-2014, 08:39 PM
^

because there isn't any. someone will come up with some example probably but they'll be deluded. Or maybe the very very very very rare exception.

The exploding boy
11-10-2014, 08:40 PM
well when i wrote that troski hadnt yet posted

This was meant to be under scotty's post

Trotskilicious
11-10-2014, 08:40 PM
yeah well i disagree with you too

T&T
11-10-2014, 08:47 PM
didn't we do this exact conversation 2 months ago?

Trotskilicious
11-10-2014, 08:48 PM
look you fucking asshole, why do you post here all you do is complain about how everything's been said and how bill is dead to you go somewhere else fuck

Trotskilicious
11-10-2014, 08:48 PM
and yes we've had every conversation about SP about twenty times already way to go you figured it out

MyOneAndOnly
11-10-2014, 08:50 PM
some of it is also the fact that the core fans have aged. I can't think of a single album that was released after I was about 30 that I love as much as anything that came before that. I remember every single Smiths album coming out, having to special order them, listening to them non stop. I think I went 4 years between my last two listens of Strangeways and I hadn't forgotten a single lyric.


At the same time, I don't subscribe the the idea that musicians necessarily lose their artistic mojo. Guys like Neil Young or Bruce Springsteen are still great musicians who put in great live performances. Their impact on new music, though, will never be later in life what it was when they were young. Very few middle aged rock stars write iconic songs because they're too far removed from whatever the cutting edge is. Grunge is classic rock. Billy is in the same boat now that Robert Plant was in the 90s.

T&T
11-10-2014, 08:53 PM
look you fucking asshole, why do you post here all you do is complain about how everything's been said and how bill is dead to you go somewhere else fuck
because it's ironic.


SP will never to be offered 500million£ to reform.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827376/Led-Zeppelin-turn-Richard-Branson-s-500MILLION-offer-reform-35-night-tour.html
don't waste your time comparing them to LZ.

MyOneAndOnly
11-10-2014, 08:55 PM
nick cave and the bad seeds, leonard cohen, swans, i could list more but you'd still say the same thing again tomorrow

I'm just saying what my experience is. I think Cohen is a fantastic musician and songwriter. But I don't think his work now is as great or impactful as what he was putting out 20 or 30 years ago.

I'm not saying there aren't great bands/musicians that last decades. Just that the songs Morrissey wrote in the past 5 years, many of which are great songs, are never going to sound as good to me as The Smiths or Strangeways.

Order 66
11-10-2014, 08:59 PM
let me elucidate this for you scotty:

international lifetime sales:

Gish: 3.5 million
SD: 11.1 Million
MCIS: 16 million

...

MTAE: ... ?

the fact they won't even say says it all

MyOneAndOnly
11-10-2014, 09:00 PM
No band today or in the 90s will ever touch Zeppelin because they came along at a time when Zeppelin could have happened. They were new and unique and the industry isn't anything like it once was.

Also, Zeppelin is a boomer band and there are a lot more billionaire boomers than Gen Xers to throw money at their childhood heros

MyOneAndOnly
11-10-2014, 09:04 PM
let me elucidate this for you scotty:

international lifetime sales:

Gish: 3.5 million
SD: 11.1 Million
MCIS: 16 million

...

MTAE: ... ?

the fact they won't even say says it all

Oceania 100k


At this rate MTAE will sell 10k copies

slunken
11-10-2014, 09:06 PM
No band today or in the 90s will ever touch Zeppelin because they came along at a time when Zeppelin could have happened.

lol wut

Araneae
11-10-2014, 09:08 PM
No matter what art form you look into (visual art, music, authors) the vast majority of them have, what is generally known as, their golden decade. It's usually a 5-10 year window where those particular artists just happened to hit the pulse of the culture where they ended up being on the same wavelength. Most artists only really have about 1-2 works that they're really known for.

I feel the same way about The Cure (and what I now seem to feel towards SP). I grew up listening to them, saw them a bunch of times and I still buy their latest releases, but the last album that I fully enjoyed from them was Wild Mood Swings (which most fans and critics hated at the time). Most of the releases since then have maybe 2-3 songs that I actually like and I rarely find myself going back to those songs. But I still love the band and I try to get catch them on tour whenever I can.

MyOneAndOnly
11-10-2014, 09:13 PM
No matter what art form you look into (visual art, music, authors) the vast majority of them have, what is generally known as, their golden decade. It's usually a 5-10 year window where those particular artists just happened to hit the pulse of the culture where they ended up being on the same wavelength. Most artists only really have about 1-2 works that they're really known for.




^^

MyOneAndOnly
11-10-2014, 09:20 PM
lol wut

Zeppelin was playing Stadium tours. Year after year. There are hardly any acts of any type today that can play tours like that. They helped create an entire genre of rock. Plant's vocal style was copied by countless bands right up until now. They're the 6th biggest selling act of all time. They've sold 300 million albums. It's unlikely that we'll ever see anybody sell albums like that, especially in rock.

edit

the genre was still new. people still bought albums and listened to the same radio stations. all that is gone now

slunken
11-10-2014, 09:21 PM
yes but i cannot deciper
No band today or in the 90s will ever touch Zeppelin because they came along at a time when Zeppelin could have happened.

abort, retry?

butthurt
11-10-2014, 09:40 PM
I blame Roy Thomas Baker.

Araneae
11-10-2014, 10:15 PM
RTB was an awful choice for their comeback album. I don't know what Billy was thinking. Not only had RTB not produced a worthy album in almost 30 years but his style didn't mesh with Billy's vocals at all.

Araneae
11-10-2014, 10:42 PM
But it's not like his choice in Howard is any better. It just sounds like a bunch of 40 year olds sitting around, pontificating on what 20 year olds want. It's sad.

pumpkinfan1988
11-10-2014, 11:01 PM
Because Siamese Dream was a psychedelic experience, much like the classic rock that preceded it.

dreams of glass
11-10-2014, 11:19 PM
Oceania only did 100k units?

Damn.

Also, I dunno why y'all are so upset. I think it's gonna be great, only complaint is there seems to be more mellow poppy songs than rockin ones. I've had that snippet of Anaise! stuck in my head all day.

Ram27
11-10-2014, 11:52 PM
Just for fun and because I'm an asshole, here's random 30 seconds clips of SD all together

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0FigB78BmPe

dreams of glass
11-11-2014, 12:00 AM
Just for fun and because I'm an asshole, here's random 30 seconds clips of SD all together

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0FigB78BmPe

Quiet sounds like shit. I can't wait to hear Hummer though, what a solo :rockon:

Disarm sounds like a song I would skip though.

Elphenor
11-11-2014, 12:32 AM
Drums sound like shit

houseofglass11
11-11-2014, 03:17 AM
let me elucidate this for you scotty:

international lifetime sales:

Gish: 3.5 million
SD: 11.1 Million
MCIS: 16 million
the fact they won't even say says it all

Nobody sells that amount of albums anymore unless you're Taylor Swift. That kind of market for buying rock music just does not exist anymore. So the fact that MTAE won't pull in those kinds of sales figures is really a moot point and not a valid argument against the quality of the music contained on the album (which we haven't really even heard yet, you twit).

Order 66
11-11-2014, 03:21 AM
the album is good because it's not pulling taylor swift numbers? talk about ass backward logic

juliana
11-11-2014, 03:29 AM
Why does an album need to sell well for many to believe it is good?
I like what I like, I don't get it...

Order 66
11-11-2014, 03:34 AM
did sgt pepper become successful by nobody buying it? was tupac famous just because he looked cool? no.. they sold alot of CDs. how much did monuments to elegy sell? what kind of impact did it have on the industry? yeah...

juliana
11-11-2014, 03:39 AM
What are you talking about?

Selling more albums doesn't mean you have a better album. Music is subjective. You like it cause you like it, not cause it sold.

If Zeigeist sold a trillion records, wouldn't make it good.

houseofglass11
11-11-2014, 03:41 AM
the album is good because it's not pulling taylor swift numbers? talk about ass backward logic

I never said that at all. Talk about ass backwards reading comprehension. You're the one saying the album sucks because it's not gonna sell X amount of copies compared to Gish, SD, and MCIS. I was saying that that market does not exist anymore. People don't buy music in those kind of numbers unless it's some over marketed pop fluff like T. Swift. Just because MTAE isn't going to do those kind of numbers is not a valid reason for saying it sucks.

houseofglass11
11-11-2014, 03:42 AM
how much did monuments to elegy sell? what kind of impact did it have on the industry? yeah...

Let me get in my time machine and I'll get back to you on that.

Order 66
11-11-2014, 03:47 AM
call me crazy but i expected this album to be better than taylor swift

Trotskilicious
11-11-2014, 03:54 AM
i don't think that is unrealistic

houseofglass11
11-11-2014, 04:04 AM
call me crazy but i expected this album to be better than taylor swift

It will be, but it certainly won't sell as many copies as her alum.

T&T
11-11-2014, 05:03 AM
wasn't the point of Order 's post to show that we don't even know what the world sales of Adore, Machina, MSOTS, TFE, Z & Oach are? ie they're insignificant..... and that M2AE isn't expected to do any better... ∴ insignificant.

Shallowed
11-11-2014, 05:34 AM
Just for fun and because I'm an asshole, here's random 30 seconds clips of SD all together

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0FigB78BmPe

Starting with an instrumental, bold move.

Elphenor
11-11-2014, 05:41 AM
Why is MTAE actually okay?

It has no right to be

houseofglass11
11-11-2014, 05:52 AM
wasn't the point of Order 's post to show that we don't even know what the world sales of Adore, Machina, MSOTS, TFE, Z & Oach are? ie they're insignificant..... and that M2AE isn't expected to do any better... ∴ insignificant.

Adore - 3 million
Machina - 1 million
Zwan - 60,000
TFE - 40,000
Zeitgeist - 120,000
Oceania - 100,000

fuzzyroes
11-11-2014, 06:13 AM
Didn't Zeitgeist go gold in the states? meaning that it sold at least 500 000 albums.

davin
11-11-2014, 07:29 AM
that's correct, fuzzy. due in part to all the different versions and colors and whatnot.

davin
11-11-2014, 07:42 AM
ps. i think the new album will suck in direct proportion to BC's current level of suck.

I thought Oceania was pretty boring and uninspired. i guess i liked a couple of the tracks, but not as many or as much as most causal SP fans and album reviewers did. and we all know BC will try to do more to continue that trend of positive reviews...

i srsl felt Oceania took the least chances of any SP album ever, and frankly didn't really resonate with me, nor did the "rockin songs" have much soul or depth to them. though i probably could still listen to it, i never feel compelled to.

*shrug* hopefully the new albums don't just cater to the mediocre, safe Oceania fanbase/vibe. though i must say the talk of a 35min album length seems like things are heading in that direction... *sigh*

reprise85
11-11-2014, 09:48 AM
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Order 66 again.

ninsp
11-11-2014, 11:27 AM
Adore - 3 million
Machina - 1 million
Zwan - 60,000
TFE - 40,000
Zeitgeist - 120,000
Oceania - 100,000

What the fuck are you talking about?

Zeitgeist went gold and Oceania was more in the 200K range which is respectable based off of CD sales nowadays. Who the fuck buys CDs. Taylor Swift's album was the first one to go platinum for the WHOLE year.

It debuted at #4 and hung around under 100 for a few weeks. That's all you can ask for a 90s rock band today. That's better than most of his contemporaries, set aside Pearl Jam, NIN and Radiohead.

patj825
11-11-2014, 11:47 AM
Just for fun and because I'm an asshole, here's random 30 seconds clips of SD all together

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0FigB78BmPe

Nice. Very valid point.

ninsp
11-11-2014, 12:03 PM
I remember Netphoria saying Zeitgeist was a crowning fucking achievement and Doomsday Clock the rocker to end all rockers (Geek USA level) as well as United States being Silverfuck-level based off of 30 second previews.

/thread

MyOneAndOnly
11-11-2014, 01:32 PM
Good music doesn't always sell well but the can have a lasting impact on the future of music. The Velvet Underground, Big Star, Patty Smith and the Ramones come to mind. Even bands like The Vaselines influenced 90s bands without having much popular success themselves.

hnibos
11-11-2014, 01:38 PM
Heard the previews. Will not willingly listen to any of those songs again. I will chalk it up as my music taste has changed.

Slurpee
11-11-2014, 02:46 PM
Just for fun and because I'm an asshole, here's random 30 seconds clips of SD all together

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0FigB78BmPe

I find it absolutely impossible to separate these clips from my long-standing impressions of the songs. I have no idea what I would have thought of this on first listen. I'm glad I didn't hear it this way first.

Mals Marola
11-11-2014, 02:51 PM
the closest parallel we've got to that at the moment is the adore bonus disc previews, isn't it
i mean people seemed to have pretty much made their minds up on cash car star etc. before the thing had actually even come out

topleybird
11-11-2014, 04:21 PM
did sgt pepper become successful by nobody buying it? was tupac famous just because he looked cool? no.. they sold alot of CDs. how much did monuments to elegy sell? what kind of impact did it have on the industry? yeah...

What Order 66 is referencing here might not be obvious to you younger folk, but it's interesting to note that the Sgt. Pepper album was completely unlistenable until about 500,000 copies were sold, at which point it became okay, and as the sales figures went up its awesomeness finally reached the album you hear today

Adore - 3 million
Machina - 1 million
Zwan - 60,000
TFE - 40,000
Zeitgeist - 120,000
Oceania - 100,000

Oh, sure, every album sold a perfectly round number :rolleyes: :noway:

OPEN YOUR EYES
THE NUMBERS ARE LIES

houseofglass11
11-11-2014, 04:32 PM
Oh, sure, every album sold a perfectly round number :rolleyes: :noway:

OPEN YOUR EYES
THE NUMBERS ARE LIES

Oh yeah like I totally believe that each album sold a perfectly round number. Come on you dumbfuck, album sales are ALWAYS rounded numbers. They never say that such and such an sold 3,456,606 copies.

cokefantastic
11-11-2014, 04:37 PM
why so literal

Mals Marola
11-11-2014, 04:41 PM
Oh yeah like I totally believe that each album sold a perfectly round number. Come on you dumbfuck, album sales are ALWAYS rounded numbers. They never say that such and such an sold 3,456,606 copies.

i think we can all agree martina was "havin a laugh" there chappo

juliana
11-11-2014, 06:20 PM
Topleybird i= funny

topleybird
11-11-2014, 06:22 PM
Shut the fuck up Mal, I was completely serious about both that and about the recorded sound of Sgt. Peppers literally changing over time based on how many copies it sold

Houseofglass11 you and the other ten houses of glass are straight-up sheeple :dammit: :Stupid:

"album sales are ALWAYS rounded numbers" jesus christ so you honestly believe that every single record ever released sells a perfectly round number, like if I go buy a copy of MTAE (which I obviously will NOT) then 99 other assholes automagically simultaneously buy a copy for themselves :think:

What a bunch of phonies, blockheads and untroo fans we have littering the landscape of our once-great forum :hanging:

butthurt
11-11-2014, 06:42 PM
I thought Oceania was pretty boring and uninspired. i guess i liked a couple of the tracks, but not as many or as much as most causal SP fans and album reviewers did. and we all know BC will try to do more to continue that trend of positive reviews...
*sigh*

You sound like a causal fan.

Shallowed
11-11-2014, 06:44 PM
"album sales are ALWAYS rounded numbers" jesus christ so you honestly believe that every single record ever released sells a perfectly round number, like if I go buy a copy of MTAE (which I obviously will NOT) then 99 other assholes automagically simultaneously buy a copy for themselves :think:

Actually if only you buy a copy, the sales for that album to the nearest 100 would be 0.

slunken
11-11-2014, 06:59 PM
OPEN YOUR EYES TO THESE MUSTARD LIES

topleybird
11-11-2014, 08:41 PM
Actually if only you buy a copy, the sales for that album to the nearest 100 would be 0.

I -- wait. Wait. Shut up, but I just realized I should have said 9,999 other assholes, because the album numbers are all in tens of thousands. Goddamnit. Goddamnit I fucked it all up. Houseofglass11 don't read this. Please don't. Shit.

thedeadofnight
11-11-2014, 09:14 PM
Loveless didn't sell.....just sayin

Trotskilicious
11-11-2014, 09:55 PM
Topleybird i= funny

you are the LAST person to determine what is funny or not

Rider
11-11-2014, 10:06 PM
What Order 66 is referencing here might not be obvious to you younger folk, but it's interesting to note that the Sgt. Pepper album was completely unlistenable until about 500,000 copies were sold, at which point it became okay, and as the sales figures went up its awesomeness finally reached the album you hear today

So it was unlistenable for the first few hours it was released?

Sgt Pepper was released simultaneously world wide and sold 250,000 copies in it first week just in the UK. It sold 2.5 million in the US during it's first 3 months. So you are pretty clearly pulling some weird theory out of your ass.

reprise85
11-11-2014, 10:12 PM
rider really

Eulogy
11-11-2014, 10:38 PM
Lol

topleybird
11-11-2014, 10:57 PM
So it was unlistenable for the first few hours it was released?

Sgt Pepper was released simultaneously world wide and sold 250,000 copies in it first week just in the UK. It sold 2.5 million in the US during it's first 3 months. So you are pretty clearly pulling some weird theory out of your ass.

It really sounds like, if I'd said Sgt Pepper was unlistenable until it sold, say, five million copies instead of five hundred thousand, and then the sound of those records started measurably to improve—not just the fidelity but, for instance, say, there was originally a completely different and totally shitty song called "Fixing a Hole" which gradually got replaced on the record over time as sales went up by the much better song we know today—and I mean, the literal pressed record that someone purchased on the day of release would, of its own accord, slowly change what was recorded on it—you wouldn't have blinked

houseofglass11
11-12-2014, 01:44 AM
Houseofglass11 you and the other ten houses of glass are straight-up sheeple :dammit: :Stupid:

"album sales are ALWAYS rounded numbers" jesus christ so you honestly believe that every single record ever released sells a perfectly round number, like if I go buy a copy of MTAE (which I obviously will NOT) then 99 other assholes automagically simultaneously buy a copy for themselves :think:


Wow, you are something else. No, when album sales are discussed in the music press in articles and such they are always presented as rounded numbers. They never say in RollingStone "Smashing Pumpkins 1993 album Siamese Dream that sold 10,456,054" copies. Yeah, I'm well aware that none of the albums have sold a perfectly rounded amount. Go take your meds.

Trotskilicious
11-12-2014, 02:04 AM
Topleyberd why are you so dumb though for real

your like extra double dumb imo

topleybird
11-12-2014, 11:41 AM
Yeah, I'm well aware that none of the albums have sold a perfectly rounded amount. Go take your meds.

LOL check out this blockhead walking back his outrageous claims. Way to change the goalposts son. :cry: :banging: :cry:

I'll have you know my meds are all up to date and are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I doubled up on them just to confirm and, yep, definitely feeling like they have nothing to do with THE FUCKING TRUTH, HOUSEOFGAALALLS!!!!!!!!!11

FACT: The Pumpkins camp refuse to release the MTAE sales numbers. You can call Zuzu's yourself and confirm: in fact if you call them more than ten times they will start slamming the phone down the second they hear your voice. :eek: That is FEAR. Fear of the TRUTH. MTAE's impact on the music industry: NIL. The numbers (LOL rounded or not, whatever houseofglass11) don't lie.

MTAE? More like M-TEA. :eek:

Like "tea" but also like "empty." :confused: :hitit:

The exploding boy
11-12-2014, 12:08 PM
I'll just go ahead and assume topleybird is trolling.

Even on the sp board that level of insanity is too hard to fathom.

Mals Marola
11-12-2014, 12:38 PM
you are the LAST person to determine what is funny or not

shit son! cool it off 'em

T&T
11-12-2014, 02:19 PM
if we're rounding to the nearest 10,000. I predict M2AE has sold 0 copies to date.

Mals Marola
11-12-2014, 03:23 PM
pumpkins camp
is
in flames

RenewRevive
11-20-2014, 05:55 AM
I remember Netphoria saying Zeitgeist was a crowning fucking achievement and Doomsday Clock the rocker to end all rockers (Geek USA level) as well as United States being Silverfuck-level based off of 30 second previews.

/thread

Nah, you're wrong. DC was panned right off. US too.

Trotskilicious
11-20-2014, 05:59 AM
yeah he's mad because people are mean to him on here so he makes up stuff to make it look like he's the smartest person in the room, he is a gamergater after all

Shallowed
11-20-2014, 06:57 AM
Wait, you guys don't realise that topley is being satirical/trolling? Are you guys trolling me?

Shallowed
11-20-2014, 06:59 AM
Maybe it's the avatar, I can't help but imagine everything he posts being said by that cat