View Full Version : rank the bassists


christian zombie vampires
09-13-2014, 05:03 PM
Nicole
melissa
ginger
paz
linda
d'arcy

kinda stupid if Nicole is out. oceania had the best bass playing of any SP/related album
at this point it would really be a coup if the next bassist was a guy

s0ss
09-13-2014, 05:37 PM
Nicole
melissa
ginger
paz
linda
d'arcy



what

juliana
09-13-2014, 05:39 PM
Lol. First of all paz was not an sp bassist. Second, paz is miles and miles above all the sp bassists including corgan. Don't let what she played in zwan fool you.

Also, linda strawberry was a bassist?

Order 66
09-13-2014, 06:28 PM
yeah she was

paranoid
09-13-2014, 06:45 PM
Dumb.

Darcy beats them all. Regardless of her technical skill, no one sounded better for smashing pumpkins than she did.

bye june
09-13-2014, 07:12 PM
http://i.imgur.com/4wHRENX.jpg

juliana
09-13-2014, 08:03 PM
Dumb.

Darcy beats them all. Regardless of her technical skill, no one sounded better for smashing pumpkins than she did.

Agreed, but paz is the best bassist in general on that list.

Funbags
09-13-2014, 08:27 PM
#1: Paz
#2: Melissa
#3: Ginger

Like airplane mode, Nicole means nothing to me.

scottytheoneand
09-13-2014, 09:48 PM
yeah she was

but not in SP


Also, what about Mark?

themadcaplaughs
09-13-2014, 10:01 PM
Ranking only people who have played under the name Smashing Pumpkins:

1. D'arcy - first off, I've never completely bought this whole, "she was not a good bass player business." She played in the band for 11 years, with three very different (and very talented) drummers, and played her parts on Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, Adore, and the Machina albums. Obviously, she was some kind of technical marvel, but she seemed to have that "it" factor with the band, seemed to play well off Corgan, and had a great tone that was just strong enough to come through when it needed to.

2. Melissa: Not counting Paz (since she was Zwan) Melissa is probably the most skilled bassist Billy has worked with as Smashing Pumpkins. Beyond that, she had that "metal mojo." I very much believe the intensity and speed of the shows in 2000 come just as much from Melissa as Jimmy. She challenged Jimmy in a way D'arcy probably didn't, learned an incredible amount of songs, and really seemed to have fun on stage. In an alternate reality, I'd love to see a Smashing Pumpkins were we got an album with Melissa playing.

3. Mark: Really seemed like a good foil for Billy, and one of the few people who humbled him. To me, he was a great mix of the "laid-back" style of D'arcy with just a little oomph added.

4. Nicole: I really do not have anything against Nicole, and her bass playing was certainly the best thing to come out of the Teargarden/Oceania era. It's just that the majority of the material she played on was boring.

5. Ginger: Once more, no particular problem with Ginger, but we really have nothing to go off here. When I saw Smashing Pumpkins in 2007 she seemed to keep it going well.

Ram27
09-13-2014, 10:32 PM
Lol. First of all paz was not an sp bassist.

Zwan was more SP than 2011 SP had any right to be

Ram27
09-13-2014, 10:33 PM
D'arcy
Melissa
Nicole
Ginger

Bread Regal
09-13-2014, 10:44 PM
really at this point we should be referring to zwan as SP 1.5

Bread Regal
09-13-2014, 10:50 PM
D'arcy was the best. The fact that she didn't play on many of the studio recordings means nothing; she played all the parts live with passion and ferocity. She was a "pocket" player, as cliche as that term is. It was the perfect complement to everyone else's style of playing.

Melissa's tone was straight garbage. Sounded like a wet fart.

herzogxyu
09-13-2014, 11:23 PM
really at this point we should be referring to zwan as SP 1.5

I know Billy changed the name and the band to a more poppy happy thing as way to distance himself from the doom and gloom of the machina pumpkins. Still don't get why he didn't just continue tsp with Melissa and Matt on guitar.
D'arcy was the best. Saw her twice but never with the full original lineup.
Melissa is talented as hell. Her playing was flawless. granted that envelope filter she used live sounds very dated but she's awesome.
Paz was great too and like DŽarcy she had a pretty bad live singing voice. But some pretty impeccable playing. Not the same as D'arcy but still a great bassist.
The bass lines on Oceania are very good and more creative than most sp albums.

In conclusion: D'arcy is rad. Her laidback playing and her challenging Billy was part of that original magic. Billy used to write songs and changes to impress the other 3 members. That magic has been gone a long time. Prolly since James and DŽarcy left.

Elphenor
09-13-2014, 11:52 PM
D'arcy or GTFO

Ram27
09-14-2014, 12:02 AM
I know Billy changed the name and the band to a more poppy happy thing as way to distance himself from the doom and gloom of the machina pumpkins.

The more Zwan stuff I listen to the more I get pissed off at Billy.

Chrysanthemum would've been a huge hit. So would Never Give Up. They weren't totally heroin and rainbows. MSOTS (or maybe it would be titled The Empty Sea) would've been fucking incredible if he didn't go and write a songs like Baby Let's Rock! and put them on the album.

Elphenor
09-14-2014, 12:13 AM
Baby let's Rock! is a cool song with a really lame title

christian zombie vampires
09-14-2014, 01:42 AM
i can't remember if it was one of billy's blog posts or a reissue book or something... but i read something a while ago where he cited jimmy hating d'arcy's playing as a major source of friction. then it hit me: imagine for a moment, you are jimmy fucking chamberlin. god among men, drummer among drummers. and the other half of your rhythm section is not only unable to play almost anything beyond steady quarter notes, but very likely refused to even attempt to. and then you are forced to spend your creative career that way. it resulted in a unique sound that we all came to love, and i guess tension helped everything end up the way it did, but she really seemed like the one 90s SP member who never progressed or pushed themself. even then it's not like she had no talent but certainly less than average.

i just checked paz's discography. i was never really into perfect circle. what other good bass did she play? i had no idea she played fiddle on tanglewood numbers and a jenny lewis song and a QOTSA song. that's pretty cool.

Trotskilicious
09-14-2014, 01:48 AM
i think she's touring with the pixies right now

The Melty Man
09-14-2014, 01:49 AM
1. Melissa
2. D'arcy
3. Eric Avery
4. Nicole
5. Ginger Fish played bass for SP??

scottytheoneand
09-14-2014, 06:42 AM
D'arcy was the best. The fact that she didn't play on many of the studio recordings means nothing.


that's a billy myth

scottytheoneand
09-14-2014, 06:44 AM
i think she's touring with the pixies right now

and she's brilliant

<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/93616682" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/93616682">Pixies - "Silver Snail" - Live at Water Music</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/spotify">Spotify</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

amoergosum
09-14-2014, 09:09 AM
1. D'arcy
2. Melissa
3. Ginger
4. Nicole

Ram27
09-14-2014, 09:39 AM
i can't remember if it was one of billy's blog posts or a reissue book or something... but i read something a while ago where he cited jimmy hating d'arcy's playing as a major source of friction. then it hit me: imagine for a moment, you are jimmy fucking chamberlin. god among men, drummer among drummers. and the other half of your rhythm section is not only unable to play almost anything beyond steady quarter notes, but very likely refused to even attempt to. and then you are forced to spend your creative career that way. it resulted in a unique sound that we all came to love, and i guess tension helped everything end up the way it did, but she really seemed like the one 90s SP member who never progressed or pushed themself. even then it's not like she had no talent but certainly less than average.


I think you're exaggerating a bit

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5E_C6L2D_pY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

But I think Jimmy just ignored her - listen to that Geek USA video shot from behind the drums.

also lol

My favorite thing he said all night was when a guy asked him "When you're playing live to you like to listen to the bass in your monitor?" and Jimmy said "It depends on who's playing the bass!"

paranoid
09-14-2014, 10:36 AM
Man, all of those bootlegs from 1990-1999 just sound god awful.. Thanks for ruining the pumpkins Darcy!

Y'all are fucking nuts.

Elphenor
09-14-2014, 11:20 AM
Seriously.

1. D'arcy

2. Who gives a fuck?

Elphenor
09-14-2014, 11:24 AM
Some people don't seem to get that technical playing does not a cool rock band make.

Go listen to Rush

Ram27
09-14-2014, 11:30 AM
...but Neil Peart

panda show
09-14-2014, 11:44 AM
we should rank them by looks cause all this discussion is pointless

dodoz
09-14-2014, 11:48 AM
https://ia600504.us.archive.org/21/items/tsp1996-04-19.fm.flac16/tsp1996-04-19.fm.d1t07_vbr.mp3

Jimmy and D'Arcy are locked in to me.

Fuck the technical side, D'Arcy was part of what made the Pumpkins sound. I don't care if Melissa played better - as some said, her tone was awful (let's not mention her banter). And since then, it's been...shredding on bass, as annoying and useless as Jeff's.

bye june
09-14-2014, 12:00 PM
Some people don't seem to get that technical playing does not a cool rock band make.

Go listen to Rush

They're one of Billy's big influences.

juliana
09-14-2014, 12:39 PM
https://ia600504.us.archive.org/21/items/tsp1996-04-19.fm.flac16/tsp1996-04-19.fm.d1t07_vbr.mp3

Jimmy and D'Arcy are locked in to me.

Fuck the technical side, D'Arcy was part of what made the Pumpkins sound. I don't care if Melissa played better - as some said, her tone was awful (let's not mention her banter). And since then, it's been...shredding on bass, as annoying and useless as Jeff's.

Um... That was not shredding on bass..........

juliana
09-14-2014, 12:43 PM
i can't remember if it was one of billy's blog posts or a reissue book or something... but i read something a while ago where he cited jimmy hating d'arcy's playing as a major source of friction. then it hit me: imagine for a moment, you are jimmy fucking chamberlin. god among men, drummer among drummers. and the other half of your rhythm section is not only unable to play almost anything beyond steady quarter notes, but very likely refused to even attempt to. and then you are forced to spend your creative career that way. it resulted in a unique sound that we all came to love, and i guess tension helped everything end up the way it did, but she really seemed like the one 90s SP member who never progressed or pushed themself. even then it's not like she had no talent but certainly less than average.

i just checked paz's discography. i was never really into perfect circle. what other good bass did she play? i had no idea she played fiddle on tanglewood numbers and a jenny lewis song and a QOTSA song. that's pretty cool.


The entrance band, she doesn't sing but is obviously the star of the power trio.

slunken
09-14-2014, 12:56 PM
let me put it this way - the bass playing on a bc-related album has never been an issue

Elphenor
09-14-2014, 03:05 PM
They're one of Billy's big influences.

Exactly. And Billy's playing is pretty technical. D'arcy's simplicity and James's Artyness is what made the band cool while Corgan and Jimmy's chops made the band Rock.

And of course Billy is a creative song writer and all

dodoz
09-14-2014, 07:10 PM
Um... That was not shredding on bass..........

Noodling then, or whatever.
Even before D'Arcy left, I often felt that the bass player in that band had to keep it fairly simple, or else it would become too busy. In that respect she was the perfect match.

jczeroman
09-14-2014, 07:22 PM
Nicole
melissa
ginger
paz
linda
d'arcy

kinda stupid if Nicole is out. oceania had the best bass playing of any SP/related album
at this point it would really be a coup if the next bassist was a guy

Exactly this list. It's when you listen to practices and demos that you realize that d'arcy was barely a musician.

paranoid
09-14-2014, 11:19 PM
Exactly this list. It's when you listen to practices and demos that you realize that d'arcy was barely a musician.

Bad reasoning.

To be fair, we have no rehearsal or demo recordings that exist of Melissa, Ginger, Or Nicole. And ultimately, Darcy was able to sound pretty damn good for the recordings and live shows.. So all that reveals is that she was able to adapt and progress as a result of practice, which is a hallmark of a good musician.

Also, listening to any of those demos/rehearsals, Billy's voice sucked just as much if not worse than her bass playing.

And RE: on Darcy not being a shredder.. Maybe this band would have been so much better off with a Vic Wooten? Christ. Less bass=more jimmy. Even Melissa was too much. Nicole only sounded decent because she had to make up for the shit drummer behind her, but other than that she noodled too much.

My list:

1. Darcy
2. Melissa/ginger (can't decide which I prefer)
3. Nicole

That's it.

herzogxyu
09-14-2014, 11:24 PM
Plus we got to see D'arcys boobs. A few times.

Ram27
09-15-2014, 07:01 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with the last two posts.

http://www.feelnumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/darcy028.jpg

F.Delacroix
09-15-2014, 08:20 AM
caveman

Ram27
09-15-2014, 09:11 AM
Everyone is a caveman at some level

Trotskilicious
09-15-2014, 06:05 PM
incorrect

The Omega Concern
09-16-2014, 01:07 AM
Agreed, but paz is the best bassist in general on that list.


cuz the Heroin...

dodoz
09-16-2014, 11:08 AM
Shall we rank Billy's bass playing as well ? It wouldn't be high in the list for me.

JRock
09-16-2014, 12:16 PM
[QUOTE=dodoz;4092764]https://ia600504.us.archive.org/21/items/tsp1996-04-19.fm.flac16/tsp1996-04-19.fm.d1t07_vbr.mp3

Fuck the technical side, D'Arcy was part of what made the Pumpkins sound. I don't care if Melissa played better QUOTE]

Totally agree. People should not be so quick to dismiss D'Arcy. There are many ways to define who was the "best bass player" in the Smashing Pumpkins, technicality aside.

houseofglass11
09-16-2014, 01:41 PM
Even BC thought Melissa sucked.

"BC: If the bass is too on top, like for example, Melissa Auf der Maur. When she played with us, she played very on top, and it was constantly tripping all over the fucking guitars. It’s hard to get… the Pumpkins’ sound. If you can bottle it, it’s sort of predicated on the idea the guitars are clearly on top and ahead of the drums; the drums sit in the middle, and the bass is a little back, so it has an impact and wide-scope sound. That’s the sound that I like to hear. Maybe it was developed through playing with D’Arcy and the way she played. I got used to that feeling, and so I’ve looked for that feeling ever since. "

http://consequenceofsound.net/2012/06/interview-billy-corgan-of-smashing-pumpkins/

juliana
09-16-2014, 01:50 PM
Melissa was not the most technical, she was the most metal \m/ don't know why pepple thought she was so technical....

Bread Regal
09-16-2014, 01:58 PM
Guitars being on top is the gist of straight rock music in general.

There's a sound guy in my town whom everybody wants working their gig because he's, simply put, the best in town. I had a chat with him and asked him what made his work stand out. He said to consider the instrument that the audience want sto hear the most, turn it up as loud as possible, and just make your way down the totem pole. The loudness hierarchy for rock shows is guitars-drums-bass. Hip-hop: drums-vox-everything else. Folk: Vocals-guitars/auxiliary instruments/drums. Kind of simple formula.

Hasn't much to do with this thread but I thought I'd share that interesting thing I learned. Zeitgeist and MSOTS would be much better sounding records if the guitars were the loudest thing on them.

juliana
09-16-2014, 02:05 PM
Guitars can suck a dick.

Billy says that shit about melissa because she is cooler than him and commanded the stage, d'arcy was more shy, james was shy, jeff is shy.

houseofglass11
09-16-2014, 02:13 PM
^^^
Feminism can suck a dick.

Bread Regal
09-16-2014, 02:31 PM
juliana, i'm not calling you dumb, but you post a lot of dumb shit

Ram27
09-16-2014, 02:37 PM
When guitars are mixed loud it sounds fucking amazing, especially if they can drive the song but still have melody

juliana
09-16-2014, 02:43 PM
juliana, i'm not calling you dumb, but you post a lot of dumb shit

Good, then I fit in here.

Bread Regal
09-16-2014, 02:56 PM
http://i.imgur.com/uek94eY.gif

slunken
09-16-2014, 05:35 PM
He said to consider the instrument that the audience want sto hear the most, turn it up as loud as possible, and just make your way down the totem pole.

These were Phil Spector's rules for his "wall of sound" as well, more or less.

bye june
09-16-2014, 05:57 PM
I hate it when people mix the vocals louder than the music...they should be on the same level.

slunken
09-16-2014, 06:07 PM
in terms of bc, i blame it on trying to do rock songs with headphones on. you need monitors and bleedthrough i don't care what anyone thinks.

bye june
09-16-2014, 06:11 PM
Yes I find it easier to sing more extreme when the guitars/drums fill the room.

pavementtune
12-01-2014, 06:50 PM
time to add Mark Stoermer
he beats Melissa and Nicole for me


glass and the ghost children
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werideatdusk
12-01-2014, 07:13 PM
D'arcy
Paz
Melissa
Mark Tulin
Nicole
Mark Stoermer
Ginger

All of em are pretty damn solid. D'arcy has to take the cake because she was part of that SP alchemy. Paz is my favorite in terms of musicality (she's also really awesome in Entrance Band) and Melissa had mad style even if she bonged her bass way too loud. Mark Tulin aka Professor Psychedelic earned a high place in my heart though for connecting teargarden era SP with 60s psych in a visceral way. his playing on Song for a Son is still some of the best on any SP recording - melodic and independent but not in your face like Nicole.

s0ss
12-01-2014, 07:20 PM
Great thread. Too bad Billy hates you and shut down the o-board.

Butt Pope
12-01-2014, 10:46 PM
in order of hotness:

paz
melissa
ginger
nicole
d'arcy

#patriarchy

Butt Pope
12-01-2014, 10:47 PM
but for real d'arcy was the best

Mals Marola
12-01-2014, 11:01 PM
she was also the hottest
or was your list from bottom to top

Butt Pope
12-01-2014, 11:10 PM
she was also the hottest
or was your list from bottom to top

counterpoint:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/66/29/1e/66291e1f0d20414364ceb92ee2539f4a.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/p403x403/1982306_422277344583893_43398517_n.jpg?oh=05331351 b71ed8ae38737f616549b4f2&oe=5508F838&__gda__=1427000123_7bb46e59256843f416d558cfc98d2c6 7

The exploding boy
12-01-2014, 11:29 PM
Paz tries way too hard. Anyway who cares that's zwan, it kinda doesn't count. I am not familiar with Nicole but she seemed alright but if i had to pick my "favorite", probably Melissa. She didn't do the skin showing thing that much, that i remember anyway (and yes i'm kinda against that). I'm not ranking on looks btw. Even if i tried to i wouldn't know because none is really my type anyway. unfortunately there's not much to rank music wise because most of the parts were always written by Bolly and most (with exceptions) of them are usually kinda forgettable... I guess im ranking this on...hmm...who would i be more bound to find ok if i hung out with them? And there was no attention paid to the fact that shes from montreal...

Also is that hair on Paz arm?

Definitely the most embarrassing had to be Ginger.

The exploding boy
12-01-2014, 11:36 PM
i just realised i didn't actually rank

I guess hmm

Melissa
Nicole
D'arcy
Ginger

And if i was ranking Paz probably just above Ginger. I dont know about that Killers guy. I just hate the killers so....

Araneae
12-01-2014, 11:37 PM
Even if i tried to i wouldn't know because none is really my type anyway.


Okay there


Also is that hair on Paz arm?


Yes, women have hair on their arms.

She didn't do the skin showing thing that much, that i remember anyway (and yes i'm kinda against that). I'm not ranking on looks btw.

You're just a mess of contradictions aren't you.

dreams of glass
12-01-2014, 11:47 PM
D'arcy wins because she had that super cool vibe to her, which fit the Pumpkins mystique, she was mysterious, and sexy.

I have to say though, I saw SP live with Nicole, and my eyes kept sliding back and forth between her and Billy, because she was just smokin hot, and was playing the hell out her bass, all while appearing very studied and nonchalant. But like I said, very pretty. Much prettier in real life than in pictures.


Edit:

And I don't want it to appear that I am merely ranking them on looks, either. I happen to think they are both fine musicians.