View Full Version : Zwan


chrisothoulo
08-25-2014, 11:04 PM
What if Zwan members all got along and they were still around making music today? Man I loved what little we had of the band. Truly a lot of amazing songs came out of that era. Kinda sad how everything has went.

Why doesnt BC keep these people in his life? They truly all cant be bad seeds.

themadcaplaughs
08-25-2014, 11:13 PM
Corgan just has a hard time working with people. I will admit that Pajo seems to sail on the reputation of having played in Slint (there are multiple people who've affirmed he's kind of a sleazy dude) but Matt Sweeney and Paz are all major, in demand musicians who have worked with many artists and have not gotten complaints from anyone other than Corgan.

William can talk all he wants about how these are all "his songs" regardless of what name he plays under, but there is something major to be said about how playing with a certain set of musicians can affect how songs turn out in many different ways (not all of which even have to do with music as much as interpersonal relationships). This is why a band with James, Billy, D'arcy, and Jimmy had a distinctly different feel from Zwan, which had a distinctly different feel from Smashing Pumpkins with Billy, Jeff, Mike, and Nicole.

With Zwan, he really seemed to have an interesting group of people with great musical chemistry. I honestly think Sweeney might have been the guitarist who could have pushed Billy further than any other. But, whatever, it's been a decade since Zwan was a thing.

butthurt
08-25-2014, 11:17 PM
I was just discussing this yesterday with Monte over Sunday afternoon tea.

Order 66
08-25-2014, 11:53 PM
liked zwan but i was relieved when it ended. they had good (musical) chemistry but it was pretty much The Billy Corgan Experience mk.2 ... i think he was just trying to shake the adore/machina-era grandiosity out of his system and used a new band as the vehicle. when in reality it probably could've been under the pumpkins name just as well

back then it would've been controversial but in retrospect with "SP2" and 3 and whatever dozen iterations it comes in in the future, its not that far fectched

panda show
08-26-2014, 01:24 AM
I never liked any zwan-era song..
not that I hate them, it's just that I can't really LIKE any of them. like, every MSOTS song sounds the same to me, and there's nothing in it for me that I can like. whatever it is that made me like siamese dream, gish, mcis, adore and machina is just not there.

and I can say the same thing about zeitgeist and oceania. (except that those two really do have songs that I hate)

smashingjj
08-26-2014, 05:48 AM
Billy's just an egomaniac prick, isn't he. Pretty sure that it's hard to work with him, moreso than it is to work with the others in that band.

Ram27
08-26-2014, 06:13 AM
liked zwan but i was relieved when it ended. they had good (musical) chemistry but it was pretty much The Billy Corgan Experience mk.2 ... i think he was just trying to shake the adore/machina-era grandiosity out of his system and used a new band as the vehicle. when in reality it probably could've been under the pumpkins name just as well

back then it would've been controversial but in retrospect with "SP2" and 3 and whatever dozen iterations it comes in in the future, its not that far fectched

Zwan is more SP to me than the Oceania lineup ever was

Funbags
08-26-2014, 06:40 AM
I think Billy couldn't handle the fact that Zwan contained musicians who didn't owe him anything.

Billy has said many times that Matt/Pajo cared more about their "indie cred" than being famous. Why wouldn't they? They had the trump card that James and D'arcy never had; their own careers. I bet Billy would have loved to see them ruin that for the sake of gaining total control.

The dude is fucked up. :erm:

Ram27
08-26-2014, 08:07 AM
He makes shit so fucking complicated.

Just play music together you fuckheads. All this intangible shit doesn't matter.

Sonic Johnny
08-26-2014, 08:32 AM
Slint is a better band than SP

T&T
08-26-2014, 10:15 AM
zwan was a great band, until billy ruined it in the studio.
"lets make a happy poppy album" - ugh.

I can understand the bands frustration and how they reacted to billy switching things up with the album compared to what they had built up till that point.
In my head billy told them to shut up and cash their cheques, and then it blew up in his face that they could actually check out and just cash their cheques and not give a fuck.

zbeast78
08-26-2014, 01:21 PM
zwan was a great band, until billy ruined it in the studio.
"lets make a happy poppy album" - ugh

yeah that's pretty much exactly how it went down. the album is pretty bad save for a few songs. but there's so many good zwan songs out there. if they just released the spun soundtrack properly it would be way better than msots. obviously this point has been beaten to death here for the past 10 years. but it's still so frustrating, considering that bc was still writing great music but couldn't get out of his own way. luckily now oceania has proven that bc is no longer writing great music, so it's not as frustrating.

zbeast78
08-26-2014, 01:24 PM
i havent even thought about zwan or listened to them in years. but this whole setlist thing made me revisit so i could pick a few to rep that era, and was surprised again by how many songs i like from then.

Crying Mercury
08-26-2014, 01:31 PM
My feelings on Zwan have always been iffy. It's such an odd time period to me, and the vibe I get from it puts me off from it. The music never really stuck with me.

davin
08-26-2014, 01:38 PM
Why doesnt BC keep these people in his life? They truly all cant be bad seeds.

if every roommate you've ever had has been shitty, then NEWSFLASH you're the shitty roommate.

alternatively: if you think everyone you meet is an asshole, then you're the asshole.

either way...go fuck yourself billy.

houseofglass11
08-26-2014, 01:45 PM
Paz was the downfall of that band. They should have kept the 4 piece line up with Pajo on bass instead. She clearly was the cause of all the drama after she made the rounds and everyone got jealous of everyone else.

Forgotten Child
08-26-2014, 01:50 PM
:noway:

Of course a woman is to blame again. Yoko broke up the Beatles, Courtney killed Cobain... it is like that since Eva, isn't it?

amoergosum
08-26-2014, 02:02 PM
http://img2.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/v/5/v5kdduoehhkyeohd.jpg?djet1p5k

houseofglass11
08-26-2014, 02:09 PM
Different scenario. John was bringing Yoko to the studio and she was interfering and making the other Beatles uncomfortable. Courtney is a psycho hosebeast who, if not directly, at least drove the man to suicide.

As far as Zwan, introducing an attractive female such as Paz (I mean, she's alright), would create a sexual tension if different members of the band had the hots for her. Men will break their allegiances to each other over a girl. Come on, as if you haven't heard of a scenario with two best friends where one steals the others girlfriend...they become sworn enemies after that.

panda show
08-26-2014, 02:17 PM
but it's not always the girl's fault - look at the smashing pumpkins!

no, d'arcy didn't break up the band, we didn't let her!
IT WAS JAMES IHA! yes, james iha broke up the smashing pumpkins!

amoergosum
08-26-2014, 02:18 PM
http://i.giflike.com/fZVF2jC.gif

houseofglass11
08-26-2014, 02:25 PM
That gif pretty much sums it up, lol.

bye june
08-26-2014, 02:25 PM
Slint is a better band than SP

The guys in Slint have better personal relationships with each other as opposed to SP which...you know.

I love both bands though.

houseofglass11
08-26-2014, 02:27 PM
Slint is alright, but better than SP?
http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae218/atlasfugged/kanye-nod.gif

bye june
08-26-2014, 02:29 PM
Slint is a different band than SP

fix'd

amoergosum
08-26-2014, 02:30 PM
YouTube comment:

Kev's Bootlegs

This was their debut show. The audience had no idea what to expect. There had been rumors that it was an acoustic set. So when they came out and started with rock song the crowd went nuts. I paid some guy 30 bucks for a tix. That was expensive for me back then.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/SfaeOnSHq2c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ram27
08-26-2014, 09:11 PM
Why did everyone start cheering when Corgan sang "Yesterday..."? It was already clear it was a bombastic song prior to the vocals.

Props to the cameraman for focusing on Jimmy at 0:38-->.

themadcaplaughs
08-26-2014, 09:57 PM
liked zwan but i was relieved when it ended. they had good (musical) chemistry but it was pretty much The Billy Corgan Experience mk.2 ... i think he was just trying to shake the adore/machina-era grandiosity out of his system and used a new band as the vehicle. when in reality it probably could've been under the pumpkins name just as well

back then it would've been controversial but in retrospect with "SP2" and 3 and whatever dozen iterations it comes in in the future, its not that far fectched

I actually think that if Billy had taken a year off after the Machina touring and then came back with what ended up being Zwan as Smashing Pumpkins in 2001, it would have been a much smoother transition. Yea people probably would have wondered where James went, but without all the attention of the band "breaking up" it probably would not have affected many peoples' perception.

Instead we got...

-2001-2005 with Billy saying Smashing Pumpkins were dead, not coming back, and we should stop living in the past.
-Two years (2005-2007) of "who's in the band drama."
-One year (2007-2008) of Billy saying he and Jimmy were always the foundation of Smashing Pumpkins.
-Having one half of that foundation leave in 2009, and Billy going on with the name anyway.
-Billy spending 2009-now attempting to convince us that this is all his music, and names are irrelevant, and that he even considers Zwan and solo songs to be de-facto Smashing Pumpkins songs.

If, in 2001, he'd just bit the bullet and carried on Smashing Pumpkins with Jimmy and let Iha do whatever it was Iha wanted to do, we'd probably be in the same place we are now, but with much less drama.

Ram27
08-26-2014, 10:00 PM
I wonder if Jimmy would've left in 2009 (or even earlier) if the band had been going solid for 8 years

pavementtune
08-26-2014, 10:10 PM
I don't see how it could have been going solid with Jimmy for so many years, touring and all.
He got two kids during those 8 years, he didn't want to spend months playing gigs.

T&T
08-26-2014, 10:37 PM
billly needs to take a vacation, and he needs to let his band members also take one instead of being a tyrant.

pavementtune
08-26-2014, 10:43 PM
Nicole and Mike got their vacation.
As did Jeff for half a year, now he's back on duty, including falling asleep and picking his nose while drinking tea.

that's some progress in terms of tyrannizing band members.

herzogxyu
08-27-2014, 12:48 AM
not to get into too much, but i feel like zwan was a direct answer to smashing pumpkins and machina. the whole pop vibe of zwan and the sort of love-positivity theme of the songs was definitely a song writer's direct response to that heavy sad bloated machina beast.
zwan was very simple songs that were put out on a plate for people as opposed to machina's thick heavy leaden story or whatnot.
the album wasn't the best. as is typical the best songs were left off. relegated to dvd snippets or trotted out time to time as an encore (or altogether left behind).
the bridge between the two is obviously untitled. with the major chords and all the love lyrics.

that said:
acoustic zwan may have been the best. though the 3 guitar attack was also pretty fantastic. when i saw them live for 2 nights in la on that spring 03 tour, you could not hear pajos guitar. at all. and the first night they only played 70 minutes. (yelena was there but i'm not sure if this were the reason or not.) though they did close with of a broken heart.
the next night they played almost 2 hours with a bunch of encores. and tons more energy.

i always felt like there were only a couple of songs i hated on mstos and a few i was meh about. yeah, and baby let's rock, are the come on let's go and bring the light of the album. like.....why???
\you left off a new poetry? or chrysanthemum. or whatever other awesome song for those?

back on point. i think what would have worked the best is not the death of the (original) smashing pumpkins but instead re-invigorating the line up with matt, and melissa and jimmy. or if melissa wasn't available use paz. but pajo may have been the problem.
but all said the zwan lineup and my make believe line up of billy, matt, jimmy, and melissa as the new smashing pumpkins is all talent.

youre welcome.

bye june
08-27-2014, 09:41 AM
SP should continue as a power trio with Billy, Jimmy and [hot chick].

chrisothoulo
08-27-2014, 11:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsOil_jRsIQ

"the're good people"

Funbags
08-27-2014, 12:21 PM
Why did everyone start cheering when Corgan sang "Yesterday..."?

It was literally the first word Billy sang since SP ended. No joke.

dreams of glass
10-25-2014, 09:46 PM
Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that Baby Let's Rock! is a better song title than Being Beige?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/s9DHFtK8v_o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Mals Marola
10-25-2014, 11:54 PM
people sure are disproportionately nostaglic about zwan these days

is it the second-coming of shit-talking i saw from pajo or whoever?

Elphenor
10-25-2014, 11:56 PM
Baby Let's Rock was always a decent song with an embarrassing title

Elphenor
10-25-2014, 11:57 PM
Vocals are like a million times better than what we've got now

dreams of glass
10-25-2014, 11:58 PM
^^

It might be the second best song on MSOTS

dreams of glass
10-26-2014, 12:03 AM
http://fc06.deviantart.net/images/i/2003/5/c/d/zwan_headphones.jpg

I like all the artwork for Zwan

Funbags
10-26-2014, 12:10 AM
Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that Baby Let's Rock! is a better song title than Being Beige?

Honestly, this is more like what I was expecting from Being Beige. Thundering Tommy-like drums? Check. Guitars for miles? Check.

If Baby Let's Rock was released now, everyone would be creaming their jeans.

dreams of glass
10-26-2014, 12:11 AM
http://33.media.tumblr.com/c2b67660e052b4741a913f0518af9e5f/tumblr_meuh2gzbnC1rg2aiho1_500.jpg

dang

dreams of glass
10-26-2014, 12:17 AM
Honestly, this is more like what I was expecting from Being Beige. Thundering Tommy-like drums? Check. Guitars for miles? Check.

If Baby Let's Rock was released now, everyone would be creaming their jeans.

I know right?

Mals Marola
10-26-2014, 12:34 AM
damn, that djali zwan cover image is official?

admitted untrue zwan fan if that wasn't obvious

chrisothoulo
10-26-2014, 09:03 AM
Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that Baby Let's Rock! is a better song title than Being Beige?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/s9DHFtK8v_o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hell no.. i loved swan but that was their worst song by far. Being Beige is great

The exploding boy
10-26-2014, 09:15 AM
yeah i never cared about Zwan, i saw them live but spent the whole show trying not to die (seriously it was scary, small venue and crazy pumpkins fan=danger) so i don't remember shit and that' the only time i heard the songs, but i wasn't aware Bolly had written such a shitty song even then.

Elijah Moon
10-27-2014, 07:28 AM
I actually really liked the Zwan album, certainly more than anything Billy has done since. I can see how people thought it was a bit soppy with the whole sunshine and love vibe, but it matched my headspace at the time. I was in (largely unrequited) love with someone beautiful, the weather was good, and I think I felt like some neo-hippy/half-hearted Buddhist. Whatever, I liked most of the songs.

edit- I was a bit disappointed that a lot of the best songs I'd heard before the album came out weren't included. But I enjoyed it for what it was.

ninsp
10-27-2014, 09:11 AM
Now that the dust has settled, can we agree that Baby Let's Rock! is a better song title than Being Beige?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/s9DHFtK8v_o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The vocals on that song made me sad that Corgan's voice is such shit now.

Y'all are fucking stupid, just tried to listen to two Zwan songs and it was terrible. Went to Being Beige and it was even a major improvement.

Mals Marola
10-27-2014, 09:59 AM
Y'all are fucking stupid, just tried to listen to two Zwan songs and it was terrible. Went to Being Beige and it was even a major improvement.

fucking stupid fucks! i won't argue with that, i did try THINKING of being beige and yep, still just came up with tom tom again

but i really like tom tom

ninsp
10-27-2014, 10:38 AM
fucking stupid fucks! i won't argue with that, i did try THINKING of being beige and yep, still just came up with tom tom again

but i really like tom tom

Tom Tom is a fantastic song. Probably one of the best post-reunion.

Funbags
10-27-2014, 10:50 AM
Tom Tom is a fantastic song. Probably one of the best post-reunion.

The TBK version is terrible. Backwards Clock Society forever.

dreams of glass
10-27-2014, 11:08 AM
Tom Tom?
Really?


SHA LA LA LAAAAaaAAAA

ninsp
10-27-2014, 11:28 AM
The TBK version is terrible. Backwards Clock Society forever.

no

Mals Marola
10-27-2014, 06:34 PM
http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=Y3T_xczFl5A#/6;9