View Full Version : Billy Transferring 60+ Demo tapes for future vinyl release


Zerospaced
08-04-2014, 09:24 AM
fuck

Zerospaced
08-04-2014, 09:25 AM
http://www.smashingpumpkinsnexus.com/#!MEMORABILIA-MONDAYSA-VERY-VERY-EARLY-SMASHING-PUMPKINS-DEMO-TAPE-FROM-JUNE-1988/c7ba/5825358B-7A29-41F2-89FE-6521C46697B8


From a long-known source comes this invaluable document, which I’ll guess will inspire some chatter amongst SP trainspotters. First, let me say that if you read the writing at the bottom, it lists that on 6-1-88, you have two participants: James and Ron, and secondly, that just prior to a debut the plan was to have live drums. But alas! As have often been the case I decided to go without, for reasons which are better saved for a book (the one I’m writing), but I will say that, despite many declarations to some other truth, Mr. Ron was never a member of The Smashing Pumpkins. For two rehearsals and the surviving tapes I have of those practices does not a band make, nor was he involved in the direction, conception, or execution of these opening songs; whereas James was in many a tete-tete in my room.

And from that moment on, since Ron left that 2nd rehearsal, he and I have yet to meet again, but please do not take this as unkind, as I look back fondly on our running days together; which were extensive and florid. And I owe much to him as inspiration, for he was a first believer when there were none; and I do mean NONE.

So back to the tape: this odd compendium of songs I’d put together almost exclusively on my own, and which had songs aimed at what was to ‘be’ The Smashing Pumpkins early style; which was moody, gothic, and leaned heavily on straight a-b-a-b arrangements. Most of these numbers are forgettable, but that won’t stop me from sharing them with you soon enough, as transfers are almost complete of my 60 + 4-track demos tapes; and to that I plan on offering a multi-edition vinyl set which if I’m guessing correct will in the end have anywhere from 12 to 20 separate releases. So please do keep an eye out for those, as they’ll be releases this year.

And one more word to the wise: I have even earlier tapes than this that say The Smashing Pumpkins, which date back to before my meeting James through our mutual friend, Lenny; who was and is a wonderful person and has more to do with my success in music that just about anyone. Lenny still has the tapes that the 3 of us made together, so perhaps he can be coaxed into putting those out with me (someday). For now, we’ll just stay focused on those materials that I own and control, and won’t engender any lawsuits (add an LOL here). For as you’ll soon hear, much of what went on in those early days had little to do with the musicality or participation of others, and everything to do with who was able to inspire me to stop being as lazy as I naturally am; the best relationships in that being those who make their musical contributions too; and not just a personal one.

W.P.C.

Zerospaced
08-04-2014, 09:28 AM
http://static.wixstatic.com/media/e56f8f_ddd625b64efa4c16a475880be21327c3.jpg_srz_p_ 334_446_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz

That track list though

Cool As Ice Cream
08-04-2014, 09:33 AM
wow

http://i57.tinypic.com/10x7azs.jpg

pavementtune
08-04-2014, 09:45 AM
THAT TRAIN AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL / SP ALBUM UPDATE

Or how young Ryan is mixing 30 hours worth of my 1985-1989 demos in the other room.

as transfers are almost complete of my 60 + 4-track demos tapes; and to that I plan on offering a multi-edition vinyl set which if I’m guessing correct will in the end have anywhere from 12 to 20 separate releases.

why he's lettting him mix that is beyond me.

Funbags
08-04-2014, 10:02 AM
Who is Ryan?

magikarp99
08-04-2014, 10:07 AM
Who is Ryan?

http://www.smashingpumpkinsnexus.com/#!ENERGY-FOCUS-ENDURANCE-POWER--SP-ALBUM-UPDATE/c7ba/E5BD3A75-F0F0-4D6F-9B09-D23CA54D1024

So that sent young Ryan off to the amp repair people

Someone young.

bye june
08-04-2014, 10:20 AM
I guess it's too much to ask for a CD box set.

slunken
08-04-2014, 10:40 AM
Oh great starting at the beginning again so he can run out of steam before getting to the good stuff

T&T
08-04-2014, 11:01 AM
I was once in SP too. billy said so.

Raskolnikov
08-04-2014, 12:36 PM
This is my favorite part of that post:

"So please do keep an eye out for those, as theyll be releases this year."

Man, audacious timeline. Don't get me wrong: I'm all in, but really - before the end of the year? Gotta hand it to him so far on the reissues... he's plugging forward with a great pace. Just don't let that Machina derail......

Cool As Ice Cream
08-04-2014, 12:39 PM
pay premium

D.
08-04-2014, 01:01 PM
If this happens at all (doubtful), it will bear no resemblance to the original idea.

scottytheoneand
08-04-2014, 01:24 PM
this reminds me of the time when Kerry Brown told me that they had a dozen people working full time on the archives and that as the SPRC would be putting out "more archive material than you could possibly imagine!"

scottytheoneand
08-04-2014, 01:25 PM
Rest in piss, Studiodog

themadcaplaughs
08-04-2014, 01:33 PM
http://www.crestfallen.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/sprc_logo.jpg

YOU KNOW I'M NOT DEAD!

amoergosum
08-04-2014, 01:47 PM
this reminds me of the time when Kerry Brown told me that they had a dozen people working full time on the archives and that as the SPRC would be putting out "more archive material than you could possibly imagine!"

Here's another good one:

Interview from 2000 >>>

Billy:
"This will make you feel better. We've taped the last...maybe 300 shows...and there's tons of demos and unreleased songs...and we're still gonna do some more recording before we break up so...you'll be sick of us in 10 years. We'll put out more music in the next 10 years than we did in the last."

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/V7AIeHnUGX0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

AveryLoren
08-04-2014, 02:33 PM
This is the type of stuff I am interested in the most. I hope we eventually get CD releases.

chucklescrotum
08-04-2014, 02:47 PM
Who is Ryan?

Ryan is Billy's current boyfriend (according to Wikipedia).

Gooch
08-04-2014, 03:06 PM
YES! And September will be GISH MONTH!

Gooch
08-04-2014, 03:07 PM
I hope we eventually get CD releases.

CD's? Cd's Nutz!

slunken
08-04-2014, 03:10 PM
everything to do with who was able to inspire me to stop being as lazy as I naturally am;

Very interesting, this

DaveKShape
08-04-2014, 03:13 PM
Absolutely groundbreaking.

ANY MINUTE NOW!

Gooch
08-04-2014, 03:22 PM
I hope we eventually get CD releases.

I hope we even get to CD's releases! Get it?? MWahahahahahaha!!

slunken
08-04-2014, 03:26 PM
From a long-known source comes this invaluable document, which Ill guess will inspire some chatter amongst SP trainspotters.

1. Who is the long-known source?
2. This particular tape is not necessarily going to be the first release, from what I can gather. It's just an example of one of his "60+" demo tapes.

killtrocity
08-04-2014, 03:26 PM
much of what went on in those early days had little to do with the musicality or participation of others, and everything to do with who was able to inspire me to stop being as lazy as I naturally am

interesting

slunken
08-04-2014, 03:39 PM
Dat's what I said.

List of Billy's muses, go:

slunken
08-04-2014, 03:40 PM
D'arcy?
Chris
Yelena
Linda
Sierra?
Veronicas

killtrocity
08-04-2014, 04:19 PM
Well I was thinking James and D''''arcy

Considering that everything he's made since they left has been pretty lazy

AveryLoren
08-04-2014, 04:25 PM
I hope we even get to CD's releases! Get it?? MWahahahahahaha!!

How about those giant posters, eh Gooch?

davin
08-04-2014, 04:27 PM
hmmmmmmm, this seems like perhaps an opportune time to re-engage with Ron via email...and dig up and post all my notes from 'Harvey Keitel circa 92' about the early days, demo tapes found & returned to billy, Lenny, Mike Potential, Joe Shanahan and the like.

then again, i don't want to get sued. so maybe i'll just do nothing instead. good job wpc. you've deterred more awesomeness.

ryanpatrick
08-04-2014, 04:27 PM
1. Who is the long-known source?
2. This particular tape is not necessarily going to be the first release, from what I can gather. It's just an example of one of his "60+" demo tapes.

Bob English? I think David Mead got a tracklisting to a longer tape than NEC from him back in the 90s, but googling hasnt turned up much.

davin
08-04-2014, 04:29 PM
Who is Ryan?

demo thief extraordinaire. i met him many times in various dark alleyways and vestibules, to exchange demos for bitcoins.

now where's my cash rewards, please.

Zerospaced
08-04-2014, 07:48 PM
I was just thinking... Billy said 60+ demo tapes. We have what 12 or 13 that have been leaked... that may not even be complete. If everyone works together this could be a really great year.

OldAtHeart
08-04-2014, 08:31 PM
I'd order this for sure. I passed on the Aegea and will pass on the other instrumental one.

Ram27
08-04-2014, 09:32 PM
Yeah this isn't happening

D.
08-04-2014, 09:35 PM
Yeah this isn't happening

<ph>

bye june
08-04-2014, 09:50 PM
I can see a vinyl happening but not a cd release...which is what I want.

It's what I want, Billy.

herzogxyu
08-04-2014, 11:04 PM
Oh great starting at the beginning again so he can run out of steam before getting to the good stuff

Metro 2000 Dvd coming out right after that!;) March 2019.
of course, the oceania super cd/blu ray 5.1 surround remix re-imagining by my chemical romance, will have to come first.

herzogxyu
08-04-2014, 11:06 PM
this reminds me of the time when Kerry Brown told me that they had a dozen people working full time on the archives and that as the SPRC would be putting out "more archive material than you could possibly imagine!"

did that literally end up being 6 songs? most of them for free?

redbull
08-04-2014, 11:15 PM
did that literally end up being 6 songs? most of them for free?

i think it was 5

MustardLies
08-04-2014, 11:47 PM
If I remember correctly Drown, Geek USA, Tulips, and Rhinoceros were free downloads. There was also an instrumental Frail and Bedazzled available for pre ordering Gish/SD reissue. Then there was that shitty xmas song. So there were 6 if you count that last one, though I understand why anyone would forget about it.

redbreegull
08-05-2014, 12:26 AM
I can see a vinyl happening but not a cd release...which is what I want.

It's what I want, Billy.

come on dude, I'm not trying to be a dick and bust your balls in multiple threads at once about buying CDs, but some damn demo from 1987 is not going to sound significantly better on a cd than if you just downloaded the thing for free. I used to be the same way about owning a physical copy of everything, but just let it go. You'll feel much better and you'll listen to far more music.

pavementtune
08-05-2014, 12:41 AM
Download the thing for free, huh?
So you tell someone who actually WANTS to buy a new release to pirate a vinyl rip instead?

Shallowed
08-05-2014, 12:45 AM
Why not both?

pavementtune
08-05-2014, 12:46 AM
Why not both what? Release it on CD and LP or LP and digital?

Shallowed
08-05-2014, 12:49 AM
CD and pirating a vinyl rip

pavementtune
08-05-2014, 01:16 AM
If the theories (in the Aegea thread) regarding additional releases while the reissue campaign is still running are correct, there won't be a CD release. So paying for one format and pirating another might not be an option.

My favorite releases are vinyl combined with a digital download code. Or what some LPs had, a memory stick packed to the LP. That makes sense to me.


Like this

http://grandgood.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/portishead-third-album-cover.jpg

http://www.recordmemory.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2008-04-Portishead-Ltd-USB-Edition-C1.jpg

null123
08-05-2014, 02:11 AM
D'arcy?
Chris
Yelena
Linda
Sierra?
Veronicas

Courtney
Sasha
Jessica
Tila

Trotskilicious
08-05-2014, 03:10 AM
these days when i hear a billy love song come up on my random play i just think he's singing to himself and it makes me chuckle quite a bit

i did this with hummer last night

Esty
08-05-2014, 05:07 AM
then again, i don't want to get sued.


Pussy. Give them to me and i'll do what you won't.

redbreegull
08-05-2014, 09:50 AM
Download the thing for free, huh?
So you tell someone who actually WANTS to buy a new release to pirate a vinyl rip instead?

no no bye june has just expressed an excessive attachment to the CD format that I don't understand. I don't think Billy's analog demos from the 80s will have an audible quality difference between buying the thing on CD and just pirating it in mp3. I wasn't saying he/she should download a lossless vinyl rip necessarily, because what was expressed in the other thread is that the love of CDs is based on wanting to own a physical copy that is portable.


My favorite releases are vinyl combined with a digital download code.


yes, I agree this is the best way to buy a release. Aegea or these demos may not come with one, but someone somewhere will rip the thing and pirate it.

Shallowed
08-05-2014, 09:57 AM
You're one to talk about excessive attachment to a format

Funbags
08-05-2014, 10:07 AM
demo thief extraordinaire. i met him many times in various dark alleyways and vestibules, to exchange demos for bitcoins.

now where's my cash rewards, please.

Then why is he mixing Billy's old stash?

HOW DEEP IS THIS RABBIT HOLE?

bye june
08-05-2014, 10:07 AM
I wasn't talking about sound difference, I just feel like CDs are a 3-in-1. A physical copy, compatible with my car and I can have the songs on my computer just like downloads.

If Billy released the demos himself as a free download I would go for that too.

bye june
08-05-2014, 10:13 AM
I don't sit and listen to vinyls and downloads irritate me.
I just prefer cds when the option is available at a reasonable price.

bye june
08-05-2014, 10:50 AM
If that was the only option yo

pavementtune
08-05-2014, 10:58 AM
no no bye june has just expressed an excessive attachment to the CD format that I don't understand. I don't think Billy's analog demos from the 80s will have an audible quality difference between buying the thing on CD and just pirating it in mp3. I wasn't saying he/she should download a lossless vinyl rip necessarily, because what was expressed in the other thread is that the love of CDs is based on wanting to own a physical copy that is portable.



yes, I agree this is the best way to buy a release. Aegea or these demos may not come with one, but someone somewhere will rip the thing and pirate it.

ah okay, I misunderstood you.
rip of Aegea already happened, but really, I'm not sure what the appeal is. Curiosity? I get that, listen through it once to hear what it's all about. But other than that?
Are you listening to vinyl rips often if any other format is available?

redbreegull
08-05-2014, 11:06 AM
ah okay, I misunderstood you.
rip of Aegea already happened, but really, I'm not sure what the appeal is. Curiosity? I get that, listen through it once to hear what it's all about. But other than that?
Are you listening to vinyl rips often if any other format is available?

yeah my bad, I was unclear because I was giving him a hard time about CDs for a different reason in the other thread. I also did not know that there was an Aegea rip because I am so out of touch with Billy's goings on at this point

almost all the music I consume is just pirated mp3s that I listen to through my macbook speakers or burn to a CD for the car. I like to listen to a lot of different things and often only listen to something once or twice. When I buy music, it's usually because I already know I like something a lot and will continue to listen to it in years to come.

pavementtune
08-05-2014, 11:10 AM
argh. okay.
imagine I went on a one page rant about pirating music and films/hurting the industry/not value it enough to spend money on/"consuming" it.
Then we'll argue back and forth for a bit, I'll keep ranting, maybe throw in a few insults, you'll keep pirating, and all is good.

redbreegull
08-05-2014, 11:16 AM
yeah, I've read a lot about pirating (music only, I don't know anything about pirating films) and I just don't really buy that it hurts most artists. It might be bad for big record companies which don't understand that their old model of music release and monopolization is archaic, but tbh I view that as a good thing. I've probably spent more money on albums and shows than most people ever will in their entire lives, so I'm not really concerned about it. Also the artists that are the most ardently anti-pirating are also usually the oldest and most establishment artists, which I think is telling.

slunken
08-05-2014, 01:04 PM
Can someone pm me an Aegea rip?

D.
08-05-2014, 01:46 PM
Can someone pm me an Aegea rip?

This.

Ram27
08-05-2014, 03:36 PM
Don't PM an Aegea rip I'm sure it sucks

ButtHash
08-05-2014, 04:28 PM
This.

This. I ain't got no clout here. But I also have no money.

Zerospaced
08-05-2014, 05:19 PM
I for one would like to have a lossless digital source, they can be on cd or sold as flac. I don't want someones crappy vinyl rip from a shitty turn table.

Ol' Couch Ass
08-05-2014, 06:13 PM
Can someone pm me an Aegea rip?

^

redbull
08-05-2014, 06:19 PM
so lost in all the complaining, we finally have the long version of the NEC tracklist. I very much hope this pops up

Shallowed
08-05-2014, 06:51 PM
If someone's got a lossless rip PM pls?

slunken
08-05-2014, 07:33 PM
I like to listen to a lot of different things and often only listen to something once or twice.

Teargarden

CrabbMan
08-05-2014, 07:53 PM
I'm waiting for all of teargarden to come out before i listen to it again.

CrabbMan
08-05-2014, 07:54 PM
And where is that Aegea rip? I'm trying to get my what.cd account reinstated. Never invite anybody you don't trust. better yet, never invite anybody.

redbull
08-05-2014, 08:18 PM
it isnt on what

stripes
08-05-2014, 08:27 PM
that's nuts man

stripes
08-05-2014, 08:27 PM
thinking about shit from that long ago

stripes
08-05-2014, 08:28 PM
you know what i mean?

redbreegull
08-05-2014, 08:47 PM
I for one would like to have a lossless digital source, they can be on cd or sold as flac. I don't want someones crappy vinyl rip from a shitty turn table.

I'm not big on vinyl rips because I don't like the cracks and pops unless I'm actually listening to a record, but a good vinyl rip is of higher quality than a rip from a CD

waz
08-05-2014, 10:47 PM
cracks and pops are usually caused by shitty equipment/ not cleaning your vinyl, or static discharge. if you do a yinyl rip, its common for people to do tiny pop/filter fixes which fix these.

Poots
08-05-2014, 10:48 PM
yeah, I've read a lot about pirating (music only, I don't know anything about pirating films) and I just don't really buy that it hurts most artists. It might be bad for big record companies which don't understand that their old model of music release and monopolization is archaic, but tbh I view that as a good thing. I've probably spent more money on albums and shows than most people ever will in their entire lives, so I'm not really concerned about it. Also the artists that are the most ardently anti-pirating are also usually the oldest and most establishment artists, which I think is telling.

Come on, that shit is stealing. Trying to justify it is simply a way to make you feel better about what you are doing. Which is theft. Go on and do it, fuck the record companies, fuck the bands, but at least be honest with yourself.

redbreegull
08-05-2014, 11:12 PM
Come on, that shit is stealing. Trying to justify it is simply a way to make you feel better about what you are doing. Which is theft. Go on and do it, fuck the record companies, fuck the bands, but at least be honest with yourself.

sure it's stealing, I'm not saying I'm fucking robin hood or something. I'm just saying I don't believe it really hurts most artists at all, and many artists have no problem with it. Again, I have given more of my hard earned money to musical artists than most people ever will in their entire lifetimes. I don't feel bad. There are many artists who I would never have heard if not for the availability of free music online, especially obscure stuff. Then I go to their shows and give them money. Pirating has probably allowed more artists to be readily heard and enjoyed than any model a big corporation has ever dreamed up. Is it breaking the law, no fucking duh. Is it necessarily harmful to artists, no. Does the fact that Don Henley and Lars Ulrich don't want me to do it while sucking the corporate dick and charging their fans $200 to see them live make me want to do it more? absolutely.

redbreegull
08-05-2014, 11:15 PM
bottom line is the entire music industry has been upended and it's not going back no matter how illegal pirating is or how many people get prosecuted or how much lily allen bitches to the press about it. shit is done. it's a new era, and a new model. artists must learn to succeed in the new model, and I think most are doing just fine. maybe it makes me a bad person, but I just don't care if some shithead makes fewer millions of dollars a year or can't buy that new super car because I stole his/her music. and as for small-timers, publicity and being heard is worth far, far more in the scheme of "making it big" than ensuring you can milk $15 out of every person who hears your full album.

the model of hear a single you like on the radio then go pay up to hear the rest really only works for a tiny number of musicians who have the right connections and the right appeal anyway. Even back in the 80s, the success of so many alternative acts was contributed to by unsung superfans making copies of tapes for their friends and shit like that.

redbull
08-05-2014, 11:16 PM
I'm not big on vinyl rips because I don't like the cracks and pops unless I'm actually listening to a record, but a good vinyl rip is of higher quality than a rip from a CD

isnt this completely irrelevant unless you have a good playback system

redbreegull
08-05-2014, 11:31 PM
isnt this completely irrelevant unless you have a good playback system

yes

redbreegull
08-05-2014, 11:32 PM
also in the interest of not being a dick, there are those who believe that vinyl and CD quality are not comparable, just different. I personally do not espouse this view, but plurality of opinion is like good and stuff

herzogxyu
08-06-2014, 12:11 AM
jesus fucking christ redpeepull shut the fuck up! are you a sociopath? american psycho?

fuck. you're stealing. plain and simple. it does hurt artists. studies suggest that it doesn't really affect the upper echelon, like madonna, jay z, etc, but it kills the middle acts. the jimmy eat worlds, the pumpkins, calexico, etc. it kills them. takes from their bottom line and for a lot of smaller acts that record doesn't sell, they don't get to make another one bottom line regardless of it's good or bad. youre stealing otherwise what you would be buying if you were a decent person.

so go steal music you douche. fuck. i'd guarantee most folks on here download the leaks because theyre fans and then of course buy the records.
ugh.:mad:

CrabbMan
08-06-2014, 12:39 AM
Breaking copyright is not the same as theft. I mean, both break a social code, but in one case once you take something and the person who had it no longer has it, in the other, they still have it and you have a copy too. They are both morally wrong, but they aren't equivalent. If sharing information without paying for it was the same as stealing, there wouldn't be libraries.

herzogxyu
08-06-2014, 12:52 AM
Libraries paid for the material. as well as the vast sort of legalese that goes with it. In short. Most libraries do not get these crazy specific releases.

soniclovenoize
08-06-2014, 11:17 AM
jesus fucking christ redpeepull shut the fuck up! are you a sociopath? american psycho?

fuck. you're stealing. plain and simple. it does hurt artists. studies suggest that it doesn't really affect the upper echelon, like madonna, jay z, etc, but it kills the middle acts. the jimmy eat worlds, the pumpkins, calexico, etc. it kills them. takes from their bottom line and for a lot of smaller acts that record doesn't sell, they don't get to make another one bottom line regardless of it's good or bad. youre stealing otherwise what you would be buying if you were a decent person.

so go steal music you douche. fuck. i'd guarantee most folks on here download the leaks because theyre fans and then of course buy the records.
ugh.:mad:

Wow, did you just lump SP into the same tier as Calexico? haha


I hear what you are saying, but the morality of music piracy can no longer be an issue for two reasons
1) It will happen no matter what, the pirates will out-think the RIAA exponentially as technology improves. People copied tapes? OK we'll impose extra tax on blank tapes and let it continue... Napster? OK we'll sue the proprietor of the software but not the actual users... Torrents? OK we'll pressure the ISPs to do something,which they won't because they'll lose their customers. What's next? Your move, RIAA.
2) Piracy has been engrained into the listening-behaviors of the newer generation. I've watched people younger than I who grew up in "The Napster Era" literally expect leaks to happen like clockwork as well as downloading the music first to see if they want to buy it afterall. This is simply how the new generation of listeners consume music: pure entitlement.

Artists have to accept this is the reality in 2014. They need to evolve with the technology and the listening behaviors of their audience. They need to realize that, rather fair or not, music itself no longer has perceived value. They need to accept that if you want your music heard, you need to give it away to promote your live show (as opposed to the live show promoting the album).

Zerospaced
08-06-2014, 11:33 AM
I'm not big on vinyl rips because I don't like the cracks and pops unless I'm actually listening to a record, but a good vinyl rip is of higher quality than a rip from a CD

I know that, you know that, but what are the chances that the folks who rip these 60+ vinyl's will know how to do a good vinyl rip?

T&T
08-06-2014, 11:46 AM
rip these 60+ vinyl's will know how to do a good vinyl rip?

60+ demos will not lead to 60+ vinyls.
expect 5-6.

bye june
08-06-2014, 01:49 PM
Piracy has been engrained into the listening-behaviors of the newer generation. I've watched people younger than I who grew up in "The Napster Era" literally expect leaks to happen like clockwork as well as downloading the music first to see if they want to buy it afterall. This is simply how the new generation of listeners consume music: pure entitlement.

Artists have to accept this is the reality in 2014. They need to evolve with the technology and the listening behaviors of their audience. They need to realize that, rather fair or not, music itself no longer has perceived value. They need to accept that if you want your music heard, you need to give it away to promote your live show (as opposed to the live show promoting the album).

I guess I didn't turn out that way because I didn't really have that much internet access like my friends and other kids at the time. When I got deep into music, my parents had one computer and slow dial-up internet and I couldn't download music. I was just used to buying cds in stores.

But I did use the internet at school every chance I had to read biographies about my favorite bands and find out about new bands. Other kids would be fucking around doing stupid shit and I would be reading about Green River. I was weird. I would just get my mom to order cds online that I couldn't find at walmart.

SlingeroGuitaro
08-06-2014, 02:56 PM
Shitty cassette recordings pressed on vinyl makes total sense.

:erm:

soniclovenoize
08-06-2014, 02:59 PM
I guess I didn't turn out that way because I didn't really have that much internet access like my friends and other kids at the time. When I got deep into music, my parents had one computer and slow dial-up internet and I couldn't download music. I was just used to buying cds in stores.

But I did use the internet at school every chance I had to read biographies about my favorite bands and find out about new bands. Other kids would be fucking around doing stupid shit and I would be reading about Green River. I was weird. I would just get my mom to order cds online that I couldn't find at walmart.

OK I'm not really attacking this mindset, my point is that it's here and it's not going away, so artists should try to exploit it instead of bitching about it or fighting it.

And that's part of Corgan's problem. His target demographic is somewhere between the two: the old dinosaurs who believe in The Album Experience and the new generation of listeners who don't. Half his fans will complain about a free one-song-at-a-time album, and then the other half will complain about a traditional album + a tour. He needs to find the middle ground somehow.

panda show
08-06-2014, 03:02 PM
and corgan also seems to have developed a vinyl fetish

soniclovenoize
08-06-2014, 03:06 PM
Well that's fine. It seems the current trend for a release is Fancy-Pants Vinyl Physical Release coupled with Oh Hum Don't Care If It's Pirated digital download.

That's not a bad thing, just as long as he doesn't want to pretend this is 1996 and he's selling out stadiums.

slunken
08-06-2014, 03:38 PM
Shitty cassette recordings pressed on vinyl makes total sense.

:erm:

I thought we were all just going to ignore that. Prediction: everything has digital reverb added to it.

60+ demos will not lead to 60+ vinyls.
expect 5-6.

OMG CONFIRMED 5-6 SETS OF 60+ VINYLS EACH

redbreegull
08-06-2014, 04:06 PM
jesus fucking christ redpeepull shut the fuck up! are you a sociopath? american psycho?

fuck. you're stealing. plain and simple. it does hurt artists. studies suggest that it doesn't really affect the upper echelon, like madonna, jay z, etc, but it kills the middle acts. the jimmy eat worlds, the pumpkins, calexico, etc. it kills them. takes from their bottom line and for a lot of smaller acts that record doesn't sell, they don't get to make another one bottom line regardless of it's good or bad. youre stealing otherwise what you would be buying if you were a decent person.

no, I'm stealing what I otherwise would never listen or have access to. Most people who download an album or a song would never have spent money on it in the first place. Moreover, like I've said three times now, I have spent what I can only vaguely guess is many, many thousands of dollars of dollars on music. I own several thousand dollars worth of CDs from my pre-download days, I've been to hundreds of shows. There are better ways to support an artist these days then allowing a record company to rape your wallet of $15-20 for 40 minutes of music you've never heard and might not even enjoy because you've been trained to think what the law says must be morally correct and the best policy for artists. I would like very much to see these stats that mid level artists are dying off because of piracy. And if that is the case, why is it that legacy artists pulling in tens of millions of dollars a year are the ones bitching the loudest about it?

i'd guarantee most folks on here download the leaks because theyre fans and then of course buy the records.

baaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha


Shitty cassette recordings pressed on vinyl makes total sense.

:erm:

lol I know

slunken
08-06-2014, 04:19 PM
I own several thousand dollars worth of CDs from my pre-download days, I've been to hundreds of shows.



This is my favorite part.

slunken
08-06-2014, 04:20 PM
http://forums.netphoria.org/customavatars/avatar7299_32.gif

redbreegull
08-06-2014, 06:01 PM
right, maybe I should spend TENS of thousands of dollars on records and shows to prove I think music has value

Trotskilicious
08-07-2014, 05:40 AM
i think the lesson here is that you sound like a rodeo assclown

pavementtune
08-07-2014, 10:08 AM
YOU MADE ME LOVE YOU/WPC UPDATE
August 7, 2014

Also, my next planned release will be the start of a multi-volume collection of home demos from 1985-1990, which, if those who work for me can be believed, has over 800 titles to consider. But a word of caution, as these ‘works’ are all over the place in terms of quality, etc, as I was just a kid of 18 when I started making my own recordings; and not only do my influences show a little too hard in places, but so do my inadequacies as a sound engineer. To help avoid confusion then over what would be on the records, short sound clips of every release will be made avail; as many are instrumental or ‘vibey’ in nature and may not appeal to everyone (I didn’t really start singing my own songs until I was 19). Comments from those that have heard them though are kind and positive, such as (and I’m paraphrasing) those from Jeff Schroeder of SP, who told me that ‘it’s cool to hear you piece together what would eventually become the band’s sound, even at such a young age.’ And pieces these are!
Since these tracks have yet to be mixed, and I’ve a lot to go through, I’d anticipate the first release to come sometime in the next 2-3 months, unless of course I decide to make some public offering before I have the vinyl in hand; in which case you’d hear the compilation of clips sooner rather than later. To that, expect a double or triple first set.
<a>

slunken
08-07-2014, 10:38 AM
Interesting that it is all early demos. I wonder if that's contractual to the SP name/brand. IE - wouldn't be allowed to release anything post-Gish

Shallowed
08-07-2014, 11:23 AM
It's taking more than a year to get the Adore reissue out, it's not even out yet, and he's starting on another archival release.

Raskolnikov
08-07-2014, 11:35 AM
Shitty cassette recordings pressed on vinyl makes total sense.

Know there's a joke in here somewhere about 7 year old shitty electronic wankery pressed onto vinyl, but I just can't seem to find it...

Really, this is ultimately what it comes down to: I'm still somehow an SP fan. I buy vinyl. These demos are interesting to me. But I don't really want this kind of stuff on vinyl, I'd rather really just have a CD set, or even just a pile of mp3s.

amayain
08-07-2014, 11:35 AM
It's taking more than a year to get the Adore reissue out, it's not even out yet, and he's starting on another archival release.

So Machina is never getting re-released. Cool. :dammit:

pavementtune
08-07-2014, 11:49 AM
What are you guys talking about.
Adore and Machina reissues are a label/Universal release with their own schedule.

These demos are a private/teahouse release.

amayain
08-07-2014, 11:52 AM
What are you guys talking about.
Adore and Machina reissue are a label/Universal release.
These demos are a private/teahouse release.

I think it's more just noting that Billy has a penchant for losing interest in projects and abandoning them. There is concern that he has moved onto something else and thus won't finish the current projects.

pavementtune
08-07-2014, 12:04 PM
If anything the release of the demos won't happen. But that would be silly, Aegea worked as a teahouse release, and this will sell, too. (Super bundle combined with tea.)

Machina not getting released would mean breaking the contract with Universal. Not gonna happen, 2015 we'll see the Machina reissue.

He's doing what he mentioned since 2000 - releasing more than during SP. In other words, making a buck as long as he can.

Ram27
08-07-2014, 12:07 PM
I’d anticipate the first release to come sometime in the next 2-3 months

http://i.imgur.com/8hx8mrT.gif

absof
08-07-2014, 05:03 PM
Ram just missed a prime opportunity to use the JCheadshakelaugh.gif

Shame on you, Ram. Shame on you.

slunken
08-07-2014, 05:12 PM
But I don't really want this kind of stuff on vinyl, I'd rather really just have a ...pile of mp3s.

I already hide all other SP vinyl apart from the regular collection. Don't want it mingling.

slunken
08-07-2014, 07:17 PM
Did anybody buy "chicago demos and unreleased bootlegs"

http://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Tapes-And-Unreleased-Demos/dp/B0058UHFVE

Poots
08-07-2014, 10:43 PM
Wow, did you just lump SP into the same tier as Calexico? haha


I hear what you are saying, but the morality of music piracy can no longer be an issue for two reasons
1) It will happen no matter what, the pirates will out-think the RIAA exponentially as technology improves. People copied tapes? OK we'll impose extra tax on blank tapes and let it continue... Napster? OK we'll sue the proprietor of the software but not the actual users... Torrents? OK we'll pressure the ISPs to do something,which they won't because they'll lose their customers. What's next? Your move, RIAA.
2) Piracy has been engrained into the listening-behaviors of the newer generation. I've watched people younger than I who grew up in "The Napster Era" literally expect leaks to happen like clockwork as well as downloading the music first to see if they want to buy it afterall. This is simply how the new generation of listeners consume music: pure entitlement.

Artists have to accept this is the reality in 2014. They need to evolve with the technology and the listening behaviors of their audience. They need to realize that, rather fair or not, music itself no longer has perceived value. They need to accept that if you want your music heard, you need to give it away to promote your live show (as opposed to the live show promoting the album).

Morality can no longer be an issue because there are so many people acting immorally? Just accept the new immoral paradigm because everyone is stealing music and there doesn't seem to be a way to stop it? What kind of a fucked sense of ethics is that?

soniclovenoize
08-07-2014, 10:53 PM
Acceptance of things you cannot control

Trotskilicious
08-08-2014, 03:22 AM
uh you can control yourself from stealing shit

T&T
08-08-2014, 03:28 AM
but he can't control me.


is it still stealing if I only listen to it once to say it sucks? /t

ryanpatrick
08-08-2014, 03:11 PM
http://static.wixstatic.com/media/e56f8f_ddd625b64efa4c16a475880be21327c3.jpg_srz_p_ 334_446_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz

That track list though

what do you think Hey! Whats Your Plan = the Marked song Hey! = 6234

and maybe Honesty = Screaming which has the line "you kill my honesty" or something like that in it twice

also kind of weird, Breathe was supposedly an alt title for Nothing + Everything but they're both on here so maybe that bit of info was a mix-up

Todd White
08-11-2014, 10:30 AM
I made the same assumptions.

Hey! What's Your Plan = 6234
Honesty = Screaming

A bit more of a stretch, comparing song titles with lyrics:

Your Love = Bleed
We Have Fear = There It Goes
Pain = I Fall
Breathe = My Dahlia

panda show
08-11-2014, 10:45 AM
I hope we get some spiteface

davin
08-11-2014, 10:57 AM
Did anybody buy "chicago demos and unreleased bootlegs"

http://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Tapes-And-Unreleased-Demos/dp/B0058UHFVE

i have a copy of this vinyl bootleg that i got on ebay.

tracklist is here: http://www.discogs.com/Smashing-Pumpkins-Chicago-Tapes-And-Unreleased-Demos/release/2166500

everything comes from other sources; nothing original or new on it.

pavementtune
08-15-2014, 02:26 PM
C: Speaking of underproduction, you announced plans to release some of your pre-Pumpkins demos. Why the inclination to share those with fans and what does it feel like to listen to those recordings now?

Well I’ll start with the latter. I definitely kind of go, “God what was I thinking?” There’s a lot of those [laughs]. Some of the friends who have heard a few of these things are like, “Wow that’s pretty crazy weird.”

I think it’s like charting a journey. I know the people that are interested in that journey are very, very limited. That’s why through ZuZu’s, which is the way we’ve been releasing vinyl, is the perfect setting. It will be an interesting, curious listen to 300 to 1000 people around the world probably. Of course they’ll share some of it on the internet, but the point is it’s really not for everybody. It’s like if I invited you over and showed you a bunch of old pictures of me in bad clothes or whatever. It’s got that effect.

Schroeder said there are those moments that you hear in a certain piece or way of playing guitar and you go, “Ah, I can hear it coming.” That part is cool. I’ll even hear stuff that I was doing at like 18 that is on Oceania. Personally, I find that cool because I think wow I had enough of a voice at 18 - not singing, I mean artistically—that it’s still intact all these years later. It’s a bit like bird watching through music, mostly instrumental. I’m probably over explaining it, but did I answer your question?


C: Absolutely, but you’ve got something like 800 demos lying around. How do you even go about deciding what you want to share?

BILLY CORGAN: [Laughs] Yeah, well think it’s pretty simple. You just use the stuff that still has some value in terms of being listened to. There’s some stuff that’s completely unlistenable. When I say 800 things, well some of them last for 30 seconds. Like I would just jot down an idea and I don’t even remember what I was thinking.

There’s one cool thing in there, I have to dig it out, it’s like I tried to make a concept album. There’s all these little weird, disconnected pieces of music that float one into another and it lasts maybe 30 minutes. I can’t even remember if I gave it a title. Stuff like that is like, “Whoa what was I trying to do there?” It’s almost like listening to somebody who has very low skill trying to meet what were concepts that stuck with me later on when I did have skill. It’s almost like watching somebody juggle who doesn’t know how to juggle but has some talent.

I’m way over explaining this, but partially because I really want to lower expectations. It’s nothing that I think is for the general public consumption. I probably wouldn’t even promote it beyond putting it on the website.
http://chicagoist.com/2014/08/15/interview_billy_corgan.php

workingdogv1
08-15-2014, 04:46 PM
That gets me a little more excited about these. I mean, I would have listened anyway, but it makes me consider buying some. I'd really like to hear the weird concept album, just for curiosity's sake.

s0ss
08-16-2014, 08:52 AM
Schroeder said there are those moments that you hear in a certain piece or way of playing guitar and you go, “Ah, I can hear it coming.” That part is cool. I’ll even hear stuff that I was doing at like 18 that is on Oceania. Personally, I find that cool because I think wow I had enough of a voice at 18 - not singing, I mean artistically—that it’s still intact all these years later. It’s a bit like bird watching through music, mostly instrumental. I’m probably over explaining it, but did I answer your question?

Maybe it's just his artistic voice has regressed that much.

slunken
08-16-2014, 09:24 AM
i have a copy of this vinyl bootleg that i got on ebay.

tracklist is here: http://www.discogs.com/Smashing-Pumpkins-Chicago-Tapes-And-Unreleased-Demos/release/2166500

everything comes from other sources; nothing original or new on it.

yea that's the one, i just messed up the title.

all things considered, how's the fidelity on it? i always kind of wanted a copy but i imagined the sound quality being horrible and tinny and just all around terrible.

pavementtune
10-21-2014, 01:35 AM
August 7
Id anticipate the first release to come sometime in the next 2-3 months

any minute now

Shallowed
10-21-2014, 01:57 AM
We all know that any time frame Billy projects ends up being at least five times as long in practice.

Elphenor
10-21-2014, 02:01 AM
I always assume nothing is coming out ever

seign
10-21-2014, 07:01 AM
http://static.wixstatic.com/media/e56f8f_ddd625b64efa4c16a475880be21327c3.jpg_srz_p_ 334_446_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz

That track list though

The best part of that picture is the fact that even as early as then, Billy made sure to point out who wrote and did what, going so far as to HAND WRITE CREDITS IN THE LINER NOTES OF A DEMO. Who does that?

seign
10-21-2014, 07:13 AM
http://www.smashingpumpkinsnexus.com/#!MEMORABILIA-MONDAYSA-VERY-VERY-EARLY-SMASHING-PUMPKINS-DEMO-TAPE-FROM-JUNE-1988/c7ba/5825358B-7A29-41F2-89FE-6521C46697B8

transfers are almost complete of my 60 + 4-track demos tapes; and to that I plan on offering a multi-edition vinyl set which if Im guessing correct will in the end have anywhere from 12 to 20 separate releases. So please do keep an eye out for those, as theyll be releases this year.

This is Billy's attempt at humor. Sarcasm doesn't translate very well in writing and we all know Billy has an odd sense of humor anyways to say the least.

seign
10-21-2014, 07:14 AM
I always assume nothing is coming out ever

That's the smart way to go. Hope for the best but expect the worst.

bye june
10-21-2014, 09:13 AM
The best part of that picture is the fact that even as early as then, Billy made sure to point out who wrote and did what, going so far as to HAND WRITE CREDITS IN THE LINER NOTES OF A DEMO. Who does that?

I do that.

:o

bye june
10-21-2014, 09:14 AM
We all know that any time frame Billy projects ends up being at least five times as long in practice.

Nothing Ever Changes

Ram27
10-21-2014, 10:30 AM
Can't he give us more vault concerts than some moldy old demos?

I thought a huge problem with SPFC was that there was no time/manpower to do stuff like this

Mals Marola
10-21-2014, 10:56 PM
netphoria: the friendly pumpkins environment

pavementtune
11-05-2014, 01:03 PM
Since I'm part of the targeted consumers of this release, I'll probably bite anyway.

But what do you folks think are the chances this LP set will be available without $50 in tea?
My hopes are pretty low now that they even sell the new album in a package.

redbull
11-05-2014, 07:10 PM
i don't think this LP set will be available at all

Rider
11-05-2014, 08:27 PM
These won't come out and Billy will blame the leaks.

T&T
11-05-2014, 09:04 PM
imminent announcement of announcement of imminent release.

myosis
11-06-2014, 08:01 AM
i just realized i can never order any special edition set because customs will seize the teabags and charge me another extra 50 for processing

Rider
11-06-2014, 11:45 AM
Montes been dreaming about a teabag from Billy for decades.

Bomb The Moon
11-06-2014, 12:49 PM
Montes been dreaming about a teabag from Billy for decades.

:rofl: