View Full Version : Corgan and Albini


Poots
07-29-2014, 10:20 AM
I don't think the two see eye to eye, but the results of them recording together would be really interesting. Over production vs under production. At least, the stuff they recorded wouldn't sound like anything else Billy has done. Chances of the happening? Less that 1%?

pavementtune
07-29-2014, 10:24 AM
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=178159

Poots
07-29-2014, 01:16 PM
Oh well. Let's see, has Billy's right testicle been discussed in detail? Not his balls in general, but just the right one. The actual testicle.

smashingjj
07-29-2014, 01:27 PM
"Underproduction"? I'd say he records bands as is. It would definitely not be for Corgan. I would like to hear that though.

T&T
07-29-2014, 02:08 PM
Corgan should do a duet with Kurt Cobain.

Ram27
07-29-2014, 02:26 PM
I'm not saying Billy Corgan should kill himself

Cool As Ice Cream
07-29-2014, 04:02 PM
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=11152404&page=0&vc=1

Re: Ask a music scene micro celebrity
07/11/07 03:40 PM

A - Billy Corgan. Huge ahole right? Like tremendously?

I have had limited dealings with Billy Corgan, and everything I personally dealt with him on, he was totally reasonable and unpretentious. He was also very generous with his time in regards to some charity stuff he was asked to do, and I applaud him for that.

Many people have passed judgment on him based on some public statements and presumptions about how he managed the membership of his bands. Even a micro celebrity like myself is occasionally asked to make statements for public consumption, so I know that things said in haste or without consideration can come back to haunt you. Also, not having been in his bands, I'm not prepared to say what he should or shouldn't have done with the members, and who "counts" as a "real" band member.

I always heard he was kind of reviled by the 'real underground' Chicago bands for being a sellout...

The first part is true, but not necessarily because of the second part. You are asking about historical perspectives, and I happened to be around while this was underway, so maybe I can shed some light.

In Chicago in the late 1980s, there began to develop a kind of budding professionalism that struck us in the punk/underground scene as distasteful: Bands with managers, publicists and other agents were encroaching on a self-made scene that had previously been by, for and about the bands themselves.

The Smashing Pumpkins personified this creeping professionalism, having a management relationship with a creepy local music business player who was also responsible for booking the biggest venue in town. As a result, any decent touring band that came through town would have the Smashing Pumpkins added to the bill as a support act. This was rightfully seen as an imposition, and patrons learned to arrive at the Metro an hour later than usual in order to miss them. It isn't overstating things to say they were something of a joke in Chicago -- a band imposed on an existing audience by the music business rather than a band building its natural audience through accretion.

Additionally, early on they were associated with the exceptional band the Poster Children, through some shows and a shared label. The Poster Children (and other bands from the same downstate scene, like Hum) were an obvious and direct influence on the Smashing Pumpkins' sound. For anyone familiar with both, it is hard to see how the a lesser derivation of the Poster Children's sound could be hailed as some kind of revolutionary genius, except by rock critics and music business people unaware of anything at the street level.

In some of those public statements I mentioned earlier, Billy Corgan has derided the underground scene of the day, saying it was clique-ish and insular, and that he wanted to rebel against it by going through conventional rock star channels to become a conventional rock star. Well, bully for that kind of thinking, I guess, if you think being a retrograde reactionary and joining the suffocating mainstream culture and business is some kind of rebellion, and if you think the penthouse of the managers and lawyers is somehow more open and inviting than the open field of the DIY scene.

For those of us involved daily in bucking that system, it was gross.

(which I think is BS, like they wouldn't sell out for millions if they had a chance).

Especially considering who you're talking to right now, you ought to realize this is pure nonsense.

B - What did you think of Siamese Dream. Even if you hate SP and/or Billy, you have to admit that album RAWKED and still does.

Not my cup of tea.

--------------------
best,
steve albini

MyKeyZ
07-29-2014, 04:18 PM
Albini + SP = I'd love to hear it!

BUT I saw in that other thread in regards to this, the opening post was... "Imagine if Albini produced Adore..."

And I must say...
NO!...
Do not touch Adore. That album is perfect the way it is.
My favorite Pumpkins record.

now for a record like Machina... that definitely could have benefited with Albini.
Machina I had a sorta organized chaos at points when it came to its production that I think Albini could have honed in on and tightened up while still keeping it raw Pumpkins.

but something tells me Billy and Albini both have such a clear individual idea on how they want a record sound that it may have been detrimental to the album writing process... a war between two minds instead of a balance.

Poots
07-29-2014, 04:26 PM
I don't think Albini would be that controllin in the studio. He seems to let the musicians do what they want and he just records them really, really well. The only problem is that he might not have enough patience with Corgan's perfectionist methods. But if he could mike the drums, get the guitar mics set up, and tell Billy that his vox were going back down in the mix like they used to be, then it could be magic. Corgan's songwriting doesn't seem to be his present problem as much as the production.

MyKeyZ
07-29-2014, 04:45 PM
Yeah definitely agree with you on that one, Poots. Plus Billy needs to find the right replacement drummer would also help greatly in getting that Pumpkins sound back. No one will ever touch Jimmy. If not him, get Matt Walker back or something. Oh man, Jimmy Chamberlin's drums miked and recorded by Albini... now that would probably sound pretty damn amazing. I don't know about Tommy Lee though. He's a good drummer, don't get wrong, but he's just too straightforward and doesn't have the jazz stylings that Chamberlin crafted that gives Pumpkins their true sound. That was the problem with Mike Burns, he's your standard, straightforward kinda drummer with no freeform. Does Billy have beef with Tool? Get Danny Carey behind the drums on a heavy Pumpkins track and see how it sounds. But that will never frigging happen. If you wanna go really heavy and dirty sounding, Ross Robinson? Another problem with the new Pumpkins sound is that I'm guessing Billy's playing to a click track now, right? Since there's no real band jamming in a room anymore. Not Billy must record all the parts and hire the right players for the rest. So I'm guessing that looseness is gone from current recordings due to it only really being Billy and The Shredder in the studio. Another factor detrimental to the Pumpkins sound.

null123
07-29-2014, 04:53 PM
Not really seeing how SP is a "lesser Poster Children", that seems like a nonsensical statement to make in 2007. Also how is it selling out to promote your band? Usually that is an accusation applied to people who alter their artistic output to make it more appealing. So like is he supposed to be sorry for not half-assing the intrinsic business element to being in a band? Was he supposed to just wait for the right music critics to find his music c'est chic like all the co0o0o0l punk bands? Albini is such a weirdo. I hate indies.

smashingjj
07-29-2014, 05:24 PM
Albini a weirdo? Compared to Corgan? uh

null123
07-29-2014, 05:48 PM
Uh

smashingjj
07-29-2014, 05:56 PM
uh

null123
07-29-2014, 05:59 PM
Can't even take five minutes out of my day to criticize someone besides Billy without someone here cracking the whip

smashingjj
07-29-2014, 06:02 PM
that is correct, you vile bitch

null123
07-29-2014, 06:07 PM
Whoa where did that come from

Poots
07-30-2014, 01:05 AM
Not really seeing how SP is a "lesser Poster Children", that seems like a nonsensical statement to make in 2007. Also how is it selling out to promote your band? Usually that is an accusation applied to people who alter their artistic output to make it more appealing. So like is he supposed to be sorry for not half-assing the intrinsic business element to being in a band? Was he supposed to just wait for the right music critics to find his music c'est chic like all the co0o0o0l punk bands? Albini is such a weirdo. I hate indies.

Yes, that pretty much sums up the old indie ethos. Stay underground at all costs. Don't try to be successful. Play music that only a select few will like.

Butt Pope
07-30-2014, 01:07 AM
Who gives a shit what albino thinks

He's even worth correcting the autocorrect

Poots
07-30-2014, 01:13 AM
the man can mike some drums

Trotskilicious
07-30-2014, 01:24 AM
that's interesting what bram posted, i'm surprised. i would have thought albini hated bill

lets make this happen, team.

Trotskilicious
07-30-2014, 01:27 AM
listening to poster children now

Trotskilicious
07-30-2014, 01:34 AM
Not really seeing how SP is a "lesser Poster Children", that seems like a nonsensical statement to make in 2007.

i'm really like this so far, but yah so this. SD basically trumps anything Hum ever did, and probably poster children

Also how is it selling out to promote your band? Usually that is an accusation applied to people who alter their artistic output to make it more appealing. So like is he supposed to be sorry for not half-assing the intrinsic business element to being in a band? Was he supposed to just wait for the right music critics to find his music c'est chic like all the co0o0o0l punk bands? Albini is such a weirdo. I hate indies.

albini is punk rock or die, besides we all know the guy is probably handsomely compensated for his work so it's not like he's living hand to mouth for his art.

Trotskilicious
07-30-2014, 01:36 AM
it's bitterness, it's the same with pavement. i can see why bill ruffled feathers, and i can see what he means by how bill wanted to buck the indie scene by being big but i think the motive for him was to push rock in new directions by being exceptionally popular and doing weird shit. it's also why he's so bitter about the mainstream now, because he put out adore thinking people would come with him but they didn't and then he never appreciated the fans that did because he wants to be SUPERSTAR ARTIST for whatever reason

besides, punk rock was originally the same way. disrupt the mainstream with dirty ass commoners being disgusting. indie/punk DIY culture came from somewhere else, maybe minor threat

i think albini also misjudges why bill is considered an asshole. doesn't seem like he knows the guy dragged his former band mates under the bus and besides it's not the only reason people think he's an ass

Cool As Ice Cream
07-30-2014, 01:39 AM
he refuses to say a bad word about bc or the band.
he's just trying to explain why the other bands didn't like sp: because they deliberately went with the big label, which is the complete opposite of what the others were trying to do.

look who's complaining about the big bad music industry today: it's belly! (but possibly not because they're so evil, but because they can't make him millions anymore.)

Trotskilicious
07-30-2014, 01:44 AM
i'm really liking poster children though, how come i didn't know about this before?

daisychain reaction is really solid

Trotskilicious
07-30-2014, 01:45 AM
he refuses to say a bad word about bc or the band.
he's just trying to explain why the other bands didn't like sp: because they deliberately went with the big label, which is the complete opposite of what the others were trying to do.

i dunno i think he was fairly explicit about how he does not like SP when he describes the chicago scene, and how the pumpkins fell into the downstate scene...but still i've listened to early demo tapes and i think SP was influenced by the same set that PC and Hum were, those shoegazers across the pond

null123
07-30-2014, 02:46 AM
But like why did smashingjj call me a vile bitch out of absolutely nowhere

Cool As Ice Cream
07-30-2014, 02:50 AM
But like why did smashingjj call me a vile bitch out of absolutely nowhere

ahahahaha
lol

pavementtune
07-30-2014, 02:53 AM
He's just having one of those go fuck yourself jabroni days where everyone is a vile bitch.

You'll have to leave the employee of the month parking spot for a day, smashingj.

smashingjj
07-30-2014, 04:30 AM
But like why did smashingjj call me a vile bitch out of absolutely nowhere

I just thought it was the right thing to say at the moment. My opinion changes quickly

Shallowed
07-30-2014, 05:51 AM
SP is the last band that would have suited Albini's hand in recording. The palettes that they draw their sound and style from are completely different sides of the spectrum.

But then again he recorded Joanna Newsom, so stranger things have happened.

smashingjj
07-30-2014, 05:54 AM
He records anyone who wants to be recorded by him. Joanna Newsom only recorded the basis harp tracks for Ys with him, so it's not that weird of a choice.

Like I said in that other thread, it would be very interesting but it would never happen. SP are very much about production and Albini is very much about getting the band recorded exactly like they sound without tweaking too much afterwards.

Poots
07-30-2014, 09:13 AM
The fact that they are polar opposites is what makes the pairing so interesting.

As far as Albini being well compensated for his work, he bases his fee on how much the band can pay. If he thinks their label is a bloated monster, he'll charge a shitton. If they are some small indie band, he'll record for very little. He's let people record for free in his studios before. Seems like a true punk.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-30-2014, 09:38 AM
it'll never happen. i don't find that interesting.

Poots
07-30-2014, 01:31 PM
Thank you for sharing your non-interest.

Elphenor
07-30-2014, 09:53 PM
I listened to Hum and Poster children today but it just reminded me of how good SD is.

I feel Billy truly did take that genre to the greatest it'll ever be.

Funbags
07-30-2014, 10:12 PM
As far as Albini being well compensated for his work, he bases his fee on how much the band can pay. If he thinks their label is a bloated monster, he'll charge a shitton. If they are some small indie band, he'll record for very little. He's let people record for free in his studios before. Seems like a true punk.

His rate is $700 per day.

redbull
07-30-2014, 10:17 PM
I listened to Hum and Poster children today but it just reminded me of how good SD is.

I feel Billy truly did take that genre to the greatest it'll ever be.

thanks for recognizing my local dinosaur bands but poster children sound nothing like hum, no matter how awesome both of them are

Elphenor
07-30-2014, 10:27 PM
They both sound like shoegaze mixed with punk and metal. Like SD era Pumpkins.

But idk, I didn't listen to a whole ton

bye june
07-30-2014, 10:48 PM
I
LOVE
HUM

Trotskilicious
07-31-2014, 12:33 AM
<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="//www.youtube.com/v/9Q397xZoMSQ?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/9Q397xZoMSQ?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

houseofglass11
07-31-2014, 03:56 AM
The production on the Peel Sessions is VERY Albini-sounding even though he obviously didn't record it. That's pretty much what Gish would have sounded like had he recorded it.

bye june
07-31-2014, 12:23 PM
Electra 2000, You'd Prefer an Astronaut, Downward Is Heavenward

Truly a Holy Trinity

reprise85
07-31-2014, 09:34 PM
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great song

ButtHash
07-31-2014, 09:43 PM
Hum is sweet as hell.

Deftones took some obvious cues from them.

bye june
07-31-2014, 11:00 PM
I
LOVE
DEFTONES

I thought it was cool when I found out that Deftones are sorta influenced by Hum as I love both bands.

http://www.smilepolitely.com/images/uploads/music/2012/September/Pygmalion%20Previews/hum_-_youd_prefer_an_astronaut.jpg

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/3b/41/255e225b9da08014b0412110.L._SY300_.jpg

ButtHash
07-31-2014, 11:03 PM
Deftones <333

Trotskilicious
08-01-2014, 12:03 AM
chino moreno is in the zeitgeist video with billy laser eyes

MyKeyZ
08-01-2014, 02:47 AM
I read that interview with Chino in regards to Hum as well... definitely cool bit of info about their influences. And I love Hum as well... and I can definitely hear the influence in the Deftones stuff. Deftones fan as well. I first heard Hum when they played "Stars" on the Howard Stern show back when it used to be broadcasted on E! network.

bye june
08-01-2014, 11:56 AM
Aww yeeah brutha

Trotskilicious
08-02-2014, 03:27 AM
yeah i heard stars when it was a hit single on the radio that just makes you 30 or so

null123
08-02-2014, 05:57 AM
Hum's vocals bother me

bye june
08-02-2014, 11:28 AM
They did me too at first and I would think "You know, they'd be even better if they had a good singer" but then after diggin' their discograpghy pretty hard I realized his singing just works with their style. He's like a nerd singing about science and girls.

bye june
08-02-2014, 11:47 AM
Happy Birthday Bye June

Wow gee whiz, Thanks Billy!

Butt Pope
08-02-2014, 02:51 PM
I like turtles.

redbull
08-03-2014, 03:19 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/zEzPdbN2PK0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/B0CKdaVgIYQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

in the first video the guitar literally sounds like melting butter

bye june
08-04-2014, 10:27 AM
I know right? I remember the first time I put on Downward Is Heavenward and hearing the opening track Isle of the Cheetah...the clear guitar, the drums come in, and then the distortion blasts. I came. Metaphorically.