View Full Version : So how about Israel


Bread Regal
07-16-2014, 01:33 AM
what a bunch of dicks am i right

MusicMan4
07-16-2014, 02:01 AM
death to isreal

Order 66
07-16-2014, 02:12 AM
#kanyeshrug

pavementtune
07-16-2014, 03:14 AM
I stopped counting the Gaza conflicts and the politicians worldwide who say "we're supporting our friend Israel" - just because that's what they always say.

It's not anti-Semitic (or pro Hamas) to say fuck that shit, your actions are wrong.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsYwDurCIAAfGxq.jpg

Trotskilicious
07-16-2014, 03:59 AM
what about everyone ever, what a bunch of dicks amirite

redbreegull
07-16-2014, 01:55 PM
When I was in Israel my impression of most people that live there is that they are just completely consumed by this mindset of the security dilemma and are unable to think rationally about the Palestinian body count. There's also this strong neoconservative attitude that ho hum we are democratic and people are free in israel and we are a shining gem in a desert of dictatorial theocracies!

redbreegull
07-16-2014, 01:56 PM
Rabin was a hero, too bad he was shot in the back by a fucking right wing Jewish terrorist

MyOneAndOnly
07-16-2014, 02:45 PM
When I was in Israel my impression of most people that live there is that they are just completely consumed by this mindset of the security dilemma and are unable to think rationally about the Palestinian body count. There's also this strong neoconservative attitude that ho hum we are democratic and people are free in israel and we are a shining gem in a desert of dictatorial theocracies!

jews in israel are free

duovamp
07-16-2014, 03:12 PM
Israel is the US strongman in the area so it isn't kosher to criticize them when they'll do our dirty work.

redbreegull
07-16-2014, 03:36 PM
jews in israel are free

all citizens of israel are guaranteed the same rights under the law regardless of ethnicity or religion. practically you might compare this to the freedom and clout of whites in the US to that of blacks in the US. arabs in israel are very disenfranchised but it's not specifically a product of israeli law, it's an issue of control of money/land/resources/racism/etc. but by pure measure of the law, arabs in israel do have more rights than they would if they lived in any of the surrounding countries

Shallowed
07-16-2014, 06:24 PM
Did something happen that hasn't already been happening for a long time that's got everyone talking about this?

MusicMan4
07-16-2014, 06:41 PM
if you think about it without isreal the terrorists would have nothing else to focus on and there probably would have been a couple more 9/11's...think about it

MyOneAndOnly
07-16-2014, 06:41 PM
rbg, jew expert

MusicMan4
07-16-2014, 06:43 PM
on the one hand if isreal wins the terrorists are dead
on the other hand if the terrorists win then the jews are dead
if you really think about it, it's basically a win/win for everybody

redbreegull
07-16-2014, 07:00 PM
rbg, jew expert

son, if being more knowledgeable than you is the definition of an "expert," the world really is in sorry shape

MyOneAndOnly
07-16-2014, 07:04 PM
you would think that based on all the supposed support from every other arab nation that the Palestinians would be welcome anywhere in the Middle East. But the truth is that none of the other countries in the region give a shit about them as anything other than a political tool against the jews.

MyOneAndOnly
07-16-2014, 07:05 PM
son, if being more knowledgeable than you is the definition of an "expert," the world really is in sorry shape

you're not more knowledgeable.

MusicMan4
07-16-2014, 07:08 PM
If you think about if the terrorists win it's the best situation
If the terrorists kill all the Jews then they have no need to be terrorists anymore and everyone lives in peace..also aren't the Jewish the real terrorists in history

MusicMan4
07-16-2014, 07:09 PM
That's if you really think about it
I'm something of an expert in this area (the Midwest)

MyOneAndOnly
07-16-2014, 07:09 PM
they killed jesus

MyOneAndOnly
07-16-2014, 07:09 PM
and it's obvious from this thread that the real expert here is AH.

redbreegull
07-16-2014, 07:13 PM
you would think that based on all the supposed support from every other arab nation that the Palestinians would be welcome anywhere in the Middle East. But the truth is that none of the other countries in the region give a shit about them as anything other than a political tool against the jews.

that's true but what the fuck are you talking about. your "jews are free in israel" comment made me think you were talking about arab israelis, not palestinians

you're not more knowledgeable.

that's cute

pavementtune
07-16-2014, 07:14 PM
Did something happen that hasn't already been happening for a long time that's got everyone talking about this?

not really, it's the yearly happy hour for the war industry.
3 kidnapped and shot teenagers there, 4 dead children here, rrrrevenge, hit repeat.

D.
07-16-2014, 07:25 PM
just something to think about if you think about it

MusicMan4
07-16-2014, 07:29 PM
I'm just putting it out there
Come to your own conclusions

pavementtune
07-22-2014, 04:50 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/aVa1lUgrzhw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

sppunk
07-22-2014, 06:22 PM
I have a hard time getting up in arms about IDF attacks when Hamas doesn't fight fairly and loads hospitals, schools and homes with artillery.

Both are at fault. Each are wrong.

Bread Regal
07-22-2014, 08:17 PM
So they should just kill the civilians anyway? Israel have their iron yarmulke. Hamas can fire missiles all day and life in Israel would not change.

MusicMan4
07-22-2014, 08:24 PM
I have a hard time getting up in arms about IDF attacks when Hamas doesn't fight fairly and loads hospitals, schools and homes with artillery.

Both are at fault. Each are wrong.

lol

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 08:35 PM
I stopped counting the Gaza conflicts and the politicians worldwide who say "we're supporting our friend Israel" - just because that's what they always say.

It's not anti-Semitic (or pro Hamas) to say fuck that shit, your actions are wrong.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsYwDurCIAAfGxq.jpg

True, but the dudes in that pic are anti-israel for reasons way different than wanting to free palestine. (lack of women and signs saying anything about palestine should be a hint)

Lucky Day Spa
07-22-2014, 08:39 PM
I have a hard time getting up in arms about IDF attacks when Hamas doesn't fight fairly and loads hospitals, schools and homes with artillery.

Both are at fault. Each are wrong.

what the hell kind of diseased false dilemma bullshit thinking is this

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 08:40 PM
lets all calm down, the israel/palestine "conflict" is a "complex" problem in which there is no "easy solution"

Lucky Day Spa
07-22-2014, 08:42 PM
personally i'm still bent outta shape about people calling the vietnam conflict the vietnam war

Order 66
07-22-2014, 09:02 PM
i think both sides are doing the right thing

Bread Regal
07-22-2014, 09:09 PM
lets all calm down, the israel/palestine "conflict" is a "complex" problem in which there is no "easy solution"
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8EDW88CBo-8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 09:26 PM
Thanks ******, now I have to take an unimaginable amount of showers after watching that.

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 09:27 PM
That this is the view the western world largely endorses literally makes me want to blow my brains out.

Lucky Day Spa
07-22-2014, 09:31 PM
when i was studying at bigshot university, they taught me that the israel/palestine situation was enormously complex. hogwash. i'm here today to tell you that i knew better then and i still know better now

the united nations VOTED

you just don't understand DEMOCRACY

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 09:53 PM
uhh...yeah...

sppunk
07-22-2014, 10:09 PM
what the hell kind of diseased false dilemma bullshit thinking is this

That civilian deaths suck but if any side uses them as shields then that's war collateral.

I am in no way pro IDF. Israeli's entire campaign is horseshit and they should be sanctioned but that ain't happening.

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 10:15 PM
okay

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 10:16 PM
2006 netphoria where we get riled up at sppunk's opinion.

Lucky Day Spa
07-22-2014, 10:21 PM
so riled right now

Lucky Day Spa
07-22-2014, 10:21 PM
i'm riley riled

riley cyrus

duovamp
07-22-2014, 10:28 PM
Nobody here is doing shit about it anyway so suck my fat tits all of you.

pavementtune
07-22-2014, 10:29 PM
True, but the dudes in that pic are anti-israel for reasons way different than wanting to free palestine. (lack of women and signs saying anything about palestine should be a hint)

True, however state army and killing kids are two things they condemn. It's absolutely hypocritical on my part, but I'd wish more Jews would use Gaza to show that they don't agree with everything Israel does.

duovamp
07-22-2014, 10:30 PM
I possess the power to solve this whole problem from my armchair, but I choose not to act upon it! Mwaaaahahaha.

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 10:38 PM
True, however state army and killing kids are two things they condemn. It's absolutely hypocritical on my part, but I'd wish more Jews would use Gaza to show that they don't agree with everything Israel does.

"use gaza"

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 10:39 PM
hoooooooly shit

D.
07-22-2014, 10:48 PM
I don't feel like I know enough about this nuanced and heated subject to have an opinion. I hope for peace one day!

pavementtune
07-22-2014, 10:52 PM
"use gaza"

Yes. Use the attention Gaza is getting right now.
Excuse me for taking every chance there is when people actually give a fuck about something that's not happening on their backyard to get it in their brains that being Jewish does not come with a condoning-Israel-no-matter-what-tag.
I'm not used to clean "Hitler was right - kill the Jews, free Palestine" paintings, and I don't want to get used to it either.

Mayfuck
07-22-2014, 11:00 PM
Yes. Use the attention Gaza is getting right now.
Excuse me for taking every chance there is when people actually give a fuck about something that's not happening on their backyard to get it in their brains that being Jewish does not come with a condoning-Israel-no-matter-what-tag.
I'm not used to clean "Hitler was right - kill the Jews, free Palestine" paintings, and I don't want to get used to it either.

here is what white supremacy looks like

noyen
07-22-2014, 11:48 PM
stop making these posts. this isn't 1998 and you aren't on somethingawful

Trotskilicious
07-22-2014, 11:56 PM
2006 netphoria where we get riled up at sppunk's opinion.

it's like we're just echoing the same arguments we've had for 10 years as we circle down the drain, each year less and less into it

"civilian casualties suck"

iirc sppunk is also the guy who accepts public shootings as being an unavoidable hazard of living in america

redbreegull
07-22-2014, 11:56 PM
Yes. Use the attention Gaza is getting right now.
Excuse me for taking every chance there is when people actually give a fuck about something that's not happening on their backyard to get it in their brains that being Jewish does not come with a condoning-Israel-no-matter-what-tag.
I'm not used to clean "Hitler was right - kill the Jews, free Palestine" paintings, and I don't want to get used to it either.

I agree it is important to emphasize when possible that being Jewish does not equal being an Israeli nationalist, or a Jewish nationalist. To be honest after going to Israel I have been having a much harder time figuring the conflict out. It just took everything I thought about the situation and threw a bunch of emotions into it and made it unsolvably complicated.

For Hamas and other anti-Israel Arab groups, the conflict is about throwing the oppressor off their land, but it has manifested largely as visceral race hatred. Hamas really is just a terrorist organization, and make no mistake, they absolutely do use civilians as human shields on purpose by putting weapons in schools and hospitals. I feel deeply for any innocent people who are killed in any conflict, but there is a strand of anti-Israel sentiment in the US and elsewhere I am sure that has pinned Israel as being entirely at fault... Hamas really is an evil bunch of sons of bitches.

Israel's media standing is also very tough to work through. Many liberals who are critical of Israel often talk about how biased the global media is in Israel's favor, and I think there is a lot of evidence for that, for instance WaPo reporting 27 dead Israelis in huge letters on the front page the other day and then in tiny print below it 500 something dead in Palestine. Another example, the curriculum in the county I teach in boils down the conflict to the Jews and Muslims hating each other and not being able to live with each other on land they think is religiously endowed to them. However, most Israelis would be appalled to hear this, as the majority of Jewish Israelis would not agree at all that the conflict is about them hating Muslims or wanting to deny them access to the Holy Land. And in some respects this is true, the conflict is much more about race and religion to Hamas than it is to Israel. Not that there isn't a lot of Israeli racism aimed at Palestinians, but in their minds they are at eternal war because of a security dilemma. The dominant belief in Israel is that they have been vilified by the global media, and honestly I think there is a lot of evidence to support this narrative too. The conflict receives more media attention than almost any other ongoing conflict in the world, and in the grand scheme of things the number of people Israel is killing to disable Hamas' ability to strike is very small compared to civilians killed by all sorts of governments and organizations all the time in places Western media mostly has no interest in. Most Israelis also are frustrated because their government is constantly criticized for acting the same way any other government would in such a security dilemma, and sadly I think that is true. The US government killed possibly HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of innocent people to get to Osama bin Laden (this including our pit stop in Iraq) and the Western media has been all but totally silent on civilian casualties of the Bush wars.

Trotskilicious
07-22-2014, 11:57 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzz

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 12:05 AM
the other thing is that the issues is so charged at this point it's difficult to open dialogue about it. Rereading my post above I found myself feeling afraid someone would read it as apologetic of Israel's murdering Palestinians en masse to get to a few bad guys. I do not support Israel's policies towards Palestine in any way shape or form, I was just trying to emphasize that the conflict is insanely hard to work through and cannot be boiled down to a bunch of entitled angry white people killing brown children. This plays into a narrative that I think is just as deceptive and reductive and ultimately fucking useless to explain or fix the situation as the propaganda coming from Netanyahu's ilk

Bread Regal
07-23-2014, 12:05 AM
I agree it is important to emphasize when possible that being Jewish does not equal being an Israeli nationalist, or a Jewish nationalist. To be honest after going to Israel I have been having a much harder time figuring the conflict out. It just took everything I thought about the situation and threw a bunch of emotions into it and made it unsolvably complicated.

For Hamas and other anti-Israel Arab groups, the conflict is about throwing the oppressor off their land, but it has manifested largely as visceral race hatred. Hamas really is just a terrorist organization, and make no mistake, they absolutely do use civilians as human shields on purpose by putting weapons in schools and hospitals. I feel deeply for any innocent people who are killed in any conflict, but there is a strand of anti-Israel sentiment in the US and elsewhere I am sure that has pinned Israel as being entirely at fault... Hamas really is an evil bunch of sons of bitches.

Israel's media standing is also very tough to work through. Many liberals who are critical of Israel often talk about how biased the global media is in Israel's favor, and I think there is a lot of evidence for that, for instance WaPo reporting 27 dead Israelis in huge letters on the front page the other day and then in tiny print below it 500 something dead in Palestine. Another example, the curriculum in the county I teach in boils down the conflict to the Jews and Muslims hating each other and not being able to live with each other on land they think is religiously endowed to them. However, most Israelis would be appalled to hear this, as the majority of Jewish Israelis would not agree at all that the conflict is about them hating Muslims or wanting to deny them access to the Holy Land. And in some respects this is true, the conflict is much more about race and religion to Hamas than it is to Israel. Not that there isn't a lot of Israeli racism aimed at Palestinians, but in their minds they are at eternal war because of a security dilemma. The dominant belief in Israel is that they have been vilified by the global media, and honestly I think there is a lot of evidence to support this narrative too. The conflict receives more media attention than almost any other ongoing conflict in the world, and in the grand scheme of things the number of people Israel is killing to disable Hamas' ability to strike is very small compared to civilians killed by all sorts of governments and organizations all the time in places Western media mostly has no interest in. Most Israelis also are frustrated because their government is constantly criticized for acting the same way any other government would in such a security dilemma, and sadly I think that is true. The US government killed possibly HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of innocent people to get to Osama bin Laden (this including our pit stop in Iraq) and the Western media has been all but totally silent on civilian casualties of the Bush wars.
i wanted the news not the weather

Bread Regal
07-23-2014, 12:05 AM
the other thing is that the issues is so charged at this point it's difficult to open dialogue about it. Rereading my post above I found myself feeling afraid someone would read it as apologetic of Israel's murdering Palestinians en masse to get to a few bad guys. I do not support Israel's policies towards Palestine in any way shape or form, I was just trying to emphasize that the conflict is insanely hard to work through and cannot be boiled down to a bunch of entitled angry white people killing brown children. This plays into a narrative that I think is just as deceptive and reductive and ultimately fucking useless to explain or fix the situation as the propaganda coming from Netanyahu's ilk
say it don't spray it

Trotskilicious
07-23-2014, 12:06 AM
shh he's getting graded for it

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 12:08 AM
holy shit god forbid someone should read something longer than two sentences what the fuck was I thinking

noyen
07-23-2014, 12:12 AM
mayfuck quit tumblr

Trotskilicious
07-23-2014, 12:18 AM
rbg: see nobody gives a fuck what you think doe, certainly not to that extent

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 12:38 AM
holy shit god forbid someone should read something longer than two sentences what the fuck was I thinking

omit needless words

write shorter paragraphs

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 12:38 AM
#writingtips

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 12:39 AM
that's unfortunate because what I have to say is more informed than 90% of what has been posted in this thread

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 12:39 AM
holy shit god forbid someone should balk at reading a massive chunk of unsolicited opinion

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 12:40 AM
omit needless words

write shorter paragraphs

sorry I don't bend to the will of the attention deficit digital aspergers generation


call me old school or unduly influenced by academia but I still believe that to make a cogent point you have to... you know, actually say something.

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 12:47 AM
okay poindexter

let me put it another way

if you want people to read anything you write, you have to make it readable

SORRY I DON'T BEND TO THE blah blah blah you can posture all you like but you have no cause for complaining that other people don't want to give up their own time to indulge your refusal to craft your words

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 12:49 AM
you are a side effect of academic essay word count requirements

universities should use declarative sentence quotas instead, then at least we'd have more people who knew how to get to the fucking point

Trotskilicious
07-23-2014, 12:51 AM
*standing ovation*

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 01:16 AM
sorry I don't bend to the will of the attention deficit digital aspergers generation


call me old school or unduly influenced by academia but I still believe that to make a cogent point you have to... you know, actually say something.

bonus point for the double straw man, btw

null123
07-23-2014, 01:20 AM
rbg went on vacay to Israel and now has an informed opinion.

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 01:24 AM
i went on vacay to brevity island and now i'm riled as fuck

Trotskilicious
07-23-2014, 01:57 AM
rbg is the attention deficit digital aspergers generation

Cool As Ice Cream
07-23-2014, 01:58 AM
israel, schmisrael

Eulogy
07-23-2014, 06:13 AM
you are a side effect of academic essay word count requirements


sorry rbg but i think he may have a point here.

it's not about the length. it can be long if there aren't wasted words/sentences/clauses. but most people know those when they see them and tune out.

duovamp
07-23-2014, 07:19 AM
And that's when we went from Israel to fifth-grade reading preference. This thread has it all. I'm never leaving it.

MyOneAndOnly
07-23-2014, 07:27 AM
rbg went on vacay to Israel and now has an informed opinion.

^^

MyOneAndOnly
07-23-2014, 07:31 AM
best thread in weeks

Eulogy
07-23-2014, 07:33 AM
And that's when we went from Israel to fifth-grade reading preference. This thread has it all. I'm never leaving it.

Are you promoting the use of unnecessary words

There are few things that annoy me more than people who take 100 words to say what can be said in 10

Like that guy who posted his music the other day. Did you like that guy?

Eulogy
07-23-2014, 07:34 AM
Not that I've never done it. To be fair.

duovamp
07-23-2014, 07:44 AM
I don't read 80% of the drivel here anyway, but the choice isn't "either speak to me like a child or write like Tolstoy." Really I just thought it was funny how the thread immediately derailed to focus on writing style and technique.

duovamp
07-23-2014, 07:46 AM
Didn't see that guy doe. Was it in the music sub?

Bread Regal
07-23-2014, 08:04 AM
My favorite teacher in high school rejected minimum word counts. When someone would ask "how long does this paper need to be?", he'd reply "As long as your legs need to be to touch the ground".

I loved that.

duovamp
07-23-2014, 08:14 AM
Mrs. Eicher my 8th grade social studies teacher said it should be like a skirt, short enough to be interesting but long enough to cover the essentials.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-23-2014, 08:14 AM
i've never had to write anything with a certain word count.

Shallowed
07-23-2014, 08:17 AM
Every educational institution, no matter what level, has to have at least one teacher that's a total sarcastic smartass.

duovamp
07-23-2014, 08:17 AM
Word counts are really really really not good for vocabulary, I've found.

Future Boy
07-23-2014, 09:16 AM
i read it rbg, and it was delightful

duovamp
07-23-2014, 09:23 AM
Speaking of shit I don't read


View Post Today, 10:16 AM
Remove user from ignore listFuture Boy
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Future Boy
07-23-2014, 09:33 AM
dont reject duo's friend request, he takes it pretty hard

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 01:35 PM
you all seem to have found a lot of unnecessary words in that post considering you didn't read it

Eulogy
07-23-2014, 02:21 PM
you all seem to have found a lot of unnecessary words in that post considering you didn't read it

I was going to go through it and bold every unnecessary word but it would have taken too long. Maybe next time I'm on my laptop I'll do it.

Eulogy
07-23-2014, 02:21 PM
Just tryin to help, bro

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 02:30 PM
you all seem to have found a lot of unnecessary words in that post considering you didn't read it

you wrote a 360-word paragraph. half that would be too much in most contexts

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 02:33 PM
I think actually you believe it is too much in one particular context, which is a message board. because in the context of meaningfully discussing one of the most contentious international relations issues in modern times, supporting points with examples and evidence that may oh my god take a full minute to read is really not too much. sure there are some superfluous words because I was more or less talking conversationally. If I were actually being graded trotskilicious, I would have read it through before posting. I guess I should try to use the quote feature more often, but I was specifically engaging mayfuck or whoever was making fun of people for saying the situation is complex by actually giving some examples of the situation being complex and difficult to work through in terms of fault

duovamp
07-23-2014, 02:38 PM
Israel bad

duovamp
07-23-2014, 02:38 PM
Hamas bad

duovamp
07-23-2014, 02:38 PM
/thread

duovamp
07-23-2014, 02:38 PM
Jews bad

duovamp
07-23-2014, 02:38 PM
All religion bad

duovamp
07-23-2014, 02:39 PM
Some good parts most bad

killtrocity
07-23-2014, 02:47 PM
I have a hard time getting up in arms about IDF attacks when Hamas doesn't fight fairly

One would be a fool to assert that Hamas is doing the Palestinian people any favors, or that it is justified in its acts of terrorism, but "fairly" is an interesting choice of words considering not only armament disparities but also access to basic resources essential for survival. The degree of suffering is weighted against the Palestinians by several orders of magnitude such that it would not be incorrect to refer to the "armed conflict" as genocide

killtrocity
07-23-2014, 02:51 PM
Bill Maher was half correct when he referred to Hamas as a mentally insane woman who is restrained at the wrists and occasionally slapped out of frustration. The missing component is that the woman is deprived of food, water, and shelter, and then systematically beaten for becoming violent under these conditions

pavementtune
07-23-2014, 02:53 PM
And electricity, they cut the power in Gaza City.

War casualties is also not the right term when you happen to kill more children and women than militants.

(28 words.)

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 03:22 PM
I think actually you believe it is too much in one particular context, which is a message board.
that was unmistakably implicit, surely

supporting statements don't need to be contained within the same paragraph. that just makes things hard to read. but the general issue really is the signal:noise ratio. it's not everyone else's job to mentally edit your verbiage. there's nothing special about your thinking or writing ability that shifts the burden of work onto the reader. if you want to be read and understood, you have to be clear and succinct. consideration is not owed to you

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 03:35 PM
The degree of suffering is weighted against the Palestinians by several orders of magnitude such that it would not be incorrect to refer to the "armed conflict" as genocide

uh, no. I read this on facebook the other day as well. it's not a genocide. calling this a genocide saps the gravity of meaning from the word. Words have actual meanings and relying on emotionally charged buzz phrases in an argument is both polarizing and disingenuous. Obama is not a socialist, the war in Gaza is not genocide.

.

I think that it was obvious I was not interested in being read by people with a two sentence attention span because, you know, I wrote more than that. I don't care if you think the post is too long and skipped it, my feelings are unwounded. The annoying part is that you all have now spent probably ten times as much time as it would have taken to read what I wrote to critique posting anything long on message boards. Just typical netphorian spitefulness. let's start a fight about literally anything possible hurrah!

Bread Regal
07-23-2014, 03:39 PM
do you know what genocide is

Eulogy
07-23-2014, 03:40 PM
It's not about attention span.

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 03:42 PM
do you know what genocide is

I understand there is an effort that has been made by some liberals to make genocide mean any sort of mass killing, but I fail to see the efficacy in conflating these things other than to legitimize their own sensationalism

duovamp
07-23-2014, 03:46 PM
. there's nothing special about your thinking or writing ability

You're in a position to make that claim?

Eulogy
07-23-2014, 03:48 PM
No one here is special

pavementtune
07-23-2014, 03:50 PM
I understand there is an effort that has been made by some liberals to make genocide mean any sort of mass killing, but I fail to see the efficacy in conflating these things other than to legitimize their own sensationalism
so you never used the term "Rwandan Genocide"?
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756384/obo-9780199756384-0029.xml

smashingjj
07-23-2014, 03:56 PM
my opinion on the matter:

Ω

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 03:56 PM
You're in a position to make that claim?

well no, not in the way you've selectively quoted it out of context

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 03:57 PM
my opinion on the matter:

Ω

that's concerning

smashingjj
07-23-2014, 03:58 PM
.

Lucky Day Spa
07-23-2014, 03:58 PM
http://forums.netphoria.org/customavatars/avatar1561_5.gif

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 04:11 PM
so you never used the term "Rwandan Genocide"?
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756384/obo-9780199756384-0029.xml

I think what happened in Rwanda had the specific goal of murdering/eliminating people of a particular group. I don't personally think that anyone but some real extremists in Israel want to kill Palestinians because they are Palestinians. When I argued about this with someone else the other day, the other party said a lot of things like, "but in effect..."

well I guess you could make that argument although I think the killing of a few hundred or even a few thousand people is kind of a flimsy argument for genocide without the intent to kill them BECAUSE of their nationality. Truthfully, a shit ton of civilians are killed in all wars. Are all wars genocides?

Americans probably killed 100,000+ civilians in Iraq. Was it an Iraqi genocide? I'm not setting up a strawman, just trying to find where the borders of this term are because it seems to mean an increasing number of things

MyOneAndOnly
07-23-2014, 04:22 PM
it's not genocide when Jews do it

MyOneAndOnly
07-23-2014, 04:30 PM
sometimes I wish the Maccabees had been wiped out

Bread Regal
07-23-2014, 05:39 PM
I understand there is an effort that has been made by some liberals to make genocide mean any sort of mass killing, but I fail to see the efficacy in conflating these things other than to legitimize their own sensationalism
i was surprised to learn that the definition includes cultural annihilation, a deliberate effort to destroy a ethnicity, race or religion, and that doesn't necessarily involve mass murder. i think the more general definition makes a lot of sense, and it could be argued the israel's treatment of civilian palestinians is exactly that.

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 06:05 PM
i was surprised to learn that the definition includes cultural annihilation, a deliberate effort to destroy a ethnicity, race or religion, and that doesn't necessarily involve mass murder. i think the more general definition makes a lot of sense, and it could be argued the israel's treatment of civilian palestinians is exactly that.

so again is all war genocide? what wars have occurred that have not resulted in the deaths of mass numbers of civilians of one group or another?

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 06:11 PM
was Sherman's campaign in the Civil War a genocide of the Confederate nation? was the undiscriminating firebombing of German cities during WWII a genocide by the Allies against the Germans?

like I said before I'm not sure what the efficacy is in expanding the definition to ******* any mass killing of people which can be construed to belong to a group when we already have terms like ground invasion, asymmetrical warfare, total war, etc., all of which to me better describe what is going on here. It just seems like an effort to legitimize the use of buzzword to rile people up

I guess the foundation of my problem with using the G word in this scenario is that I really don't think ethnicity or religion or nationality are the dominant factors in why Israel is blowing up children in the streets. I think that intention matters, and a lot of civilians dying is not enough to constitute a genocide. Shooting and killing a would-be mugger who was armed only with a knife might be a horrible perversion of self-defense and murder, but it is not an assassination just because the outcome is that someone died.

Bread Regal
07-23-2014, 06:37 PM
so again is all war genocide? what wars have occurred that have not resulted in the deaths of mass numbers of civilians of one group or another?
no. the object of many modern wars is to disarm the adversary by destroying their economic means to fight the war. this is why modern strategies call for not only call for targeting military facilities, but also bridges, power plants and other public works facilities. bombing hospitals and homes carry higher cost-benefit ratios than say, a bridge that severely limits freedom of movement within gaza.

the thing is, Israel has already accomplished that very well through their extreme regulation of imports. there are no high value targets. furthermore, the crude bombs that hamas is lobbing into israel are doing damage that is minuscule compared to the IDF's devastation.

there's a fairly blurry line that quantitatively divides collateral damage and genocide, but i think we're well beyond that threshold in this particular flare-up.

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 06:51 PM
no. the object of many modern wars is to disarm the adversary by destroying their economic means to fight the war. this is why modern strategies call for not only call for targeting military facilities, but also bridges, power plants and other public works facilities. bombing hospitals and homes carry higher cost-benefit ratios than say, a bridge that severely limits freedom of movement within gaza.

the thing is, Israel has already accomplished that very well through their extreme regulation of imports. there are no high value targets. furthermore, the crude bombs that hamas is lobbing into israel are doing damage that is minuscule compared to the IDF's devastation.

there's a fairly blurry line that quantitatively divides collateral damage and genocide, but i think we're well beyond that threshold in this particular flare-up.

I'm just not really sure how you are making that call. Not to be insensitive, but the human cost here is actually quite low compared to other conflicts along ethnic divides going on in the world right now. Your answer is pretty flimsy. Israel's attack is "well beyond that threshold..." what threshold? Where is it? What makes this genocide but not the American occupation of Iraq in which the civilian to combatant dead ratio is fantastically higher?

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 06:54 PM
did al Qaeda commit a genocidal act by killing 3000 Americans on 911? Again, I'm not trying to set up strawmen, I just honestly want to know what line everyone is seeing here? "I know it when I see it" is not really an acceptable measurement.

null123
07-23-2014, 07:32 PM
Bread Regal: "genocide isn't a numbers game and is not only to do with mass murder"
redbreegull: "well, to be fair, a relatively low number of Palestinians have died"

Bread Regal
07-23-2014, 07:57 PM
As I said, a quantitative threshold is practically impossible to define here. Israel and its allies all in one way or another works to delegitimize palestinian culture as a whole. They're an oppressed and brutalized population who can't build any sort of capital for shit because the PA keeps it all from coming in.

The point I'm trying to get at is that israel doesn't need to shoot missiles into gaza. the iron dome is doing a fantastic job at protecting israelis. that's fantastic. and that's all that's needed here. Israel's per capita military spending is only exceeded by the US and they probably have nukes as well. If Israel was interested in destroying their weapons, it would be sufficient to just let hamas use them all up.

Firing those missiles into gaza gives israel negligible tactical advantage over hamas, and the fact that it's so unnecessary leads me to believe they are targeting civilians.

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 08:21 PM
As I said, a quantitative threshold is practically impossible to define here. Israel and its allies all in one way or another works to delegitimize palestinian culture as a whole. They're an oppressed and brutalized population who can't build any sort of capital for shit because the PA keeps it all from coming in.

The point I'm trying to get at is that israel doesn't need to shoot missiles into gaza. the iron dome is doing a fantastic job at protecting israelis. that's fantastic. and that's all that's needed here. Israel's per capita military spending is only exceeded by the US and they probably have nukes as well. If Israel was interested in destroying their weapons, it would be sufficient to just let hamas use them all up.

Firing those missiles into gaza gives israel negligible tactical advantage over hamas, and the fact that it's so unnecessary leads me to believe they are targeting civilians.

1. Israel's allies largely condemn the way it treats Palestinians, it is Israel and its neighbors that have delegitimized Palestinian culture as a whole.

2. The iron dome has prevented a lot of damage but your implication seems to be that it is fullproof which it isn't, plenty of rockets still reach the ground despite their rudimentary nature (they are quite a bit better than the rockets Hamas has used in past phases of conflict though). Not that it makes it acceptable, but do you think any country would act differently if terrorists were shooting rockets at them from foreign soil? My guess is no

3. Israel absolutely has nuclear weapons but that's not relevant to this particular argument

4. Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel for years. Thousands and thousands and thousands of rockets. They have been pretty crunched financially the last few years and yet they are still firing rockets. The idea that they might just use them all up and call it a day is laughable, man.

5. Israeli's invasion and missile attacks on rocket launcher sites is very shortsighted because it is driven by extreme security paranoia and fear of terrorism. It doesn't have to do with giving them longterm military advantage over Hamas, but also doesn't mean they are purposely shooting at civilians. The goal is to eliminate the immediate threat which is rocket launching sites and tunnels. I think you actually give Netanyahu too much credit for assuming he must be acting rationally, either he has a master plan for disarming Hamas forever or he must be on a campaign of organized terror. Neither is true, he's a paranoid neoconservative Israeli George W. Bush.

you also have to understand that for the current people in power in Israel (the nutjob imperialists and neocons), the situation already is optimal minus the rocket fire. It would not suit their ideological endpoint either to destroy Palestinian autonomy or to allow Palestine to morph into a functional state with a reasonable government.

redbreegull
07-23-2014, 08:24 PM
Someone I know posted this on facebook, it's probably the most succinct and accurate explanation of what is going on that I have seen

Everyone's so wrapped up in who's the 'good guy' and who's the 'bad guy', that they don't notice that both sides want war. They choose it, over and over.

Israel's current political party is based on the idea of protecting the Israeli people from the barbarians at the gate. If Hamas is being too quiet, go roll some tanks into a Palestinian neighborhood, and build a settlement. If that doesn't get the rockets flying, you can always exploit the deaths of some kids to paint an entire people as murderers - then go raiding neighborhoods "arresting" "terrorists". Hamas, your political ally, will cooperate with rockets soon enough.

For Hamas, it's all about the money. And for these asshats to keep control, they have to show that a moderate stance of negotiation with Israel is fruitless (that was easy), and that fighting is the only way. Recruit the kids from literally broken homes, and point at the entire Jewish race as the bad guy. Play "who can exploit racism more" with your political counterparts across the wall.

A lot is going on in the Arab world, and Hamas is not the money magnet for disgruntled Muslims that it used to be. That David and Goliath story was getting old, and c'mon - David only needed one stone. There's the Syria situation, a "Caliphate" the radicals would support now. How is Hamas going to compete with that? They need to remind the world that they are fighting the Jews, so next time shit starts, don't send a few rockets. Send 70. A hundred. Send them all, build more, and then send then.

And when the inevitable heavy hand comes in a swinging, so will the international support. IS who?

Meanwhile Israeli citizens, who are just people trying to live their lives, are living under an iron somethingorrather to keep the rockets away. They have to worry about random acts of violence that they don't understand. Who should have to live this way? Why do they hate us so much, and why don't they just leave?

And Palestinian citizens, who are just people trying to live their lives, have to live under threat of raids and displacement. They have to smuggle in food and medicine via tunnels, and have no hope of industry of advancement. Who should have to live this way? Why do they hate us so much, and why don't they just leave?

"Who is responsible for this chaos?" they ask their leaders.
"The evil ones" is the response. "They want to destroy us all." vote for me!
This is the Inevitable marriage ceremony of imperialism and religion.

pavementtune
07-23-2014, 08:28 PM
This description avoids to say what it is: war crimes, shitting all over the Geneva Conventions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/world/middleeast/navi-pillay-criticizes-israel-hamas-over-gaza.html

doesn't mean they are purposely shooting at civilians.
So what is it? An accident? More kids have died than militants.
Is the Israeli military so untrained that they accidentally hit a hospital or shelters they previously declared as refugee zone for civilians?

MyOneAndOnly
07-23-2014, 09:13 PM
is anybody reading all of his posts? it's TOC level shit

Eulogy
07-24-2014, 06:02 AM
No it's not shut the fuck up Scotty

So my honest question is: what should Israel do? Obviously not what they're doing. But I don't think nothing is the right answer either. Right?****

***i know very little about this shit

Cool As Ice Cream
07-24-2014, 06:22 AM
they should wait until the first of april and then go "hahaha! it was all a joke" and then everyone will laugh and forget about it and there will be peace.

Lucky Day Spa
07-24-2014, 06:24 AM
well if you really want to understand the current situation in israel between the jewish/hebrew israelis and the palestinians who in<clsda>clude hamas, but are not entirely comprised thereof, you have to really take a step back and look at the long and convoluted history of the region, including to a large extent but not limited to the longstanding racial, religious and ideological tensions between the two major groups currently extant in the region but also by taking into account the higher level political situation vis-à-vis petroleum politics with the united states and other distant developed nations factoring in, but also longstanding geopolitical jostling for power between the shia- and sunni-predominant islamic arab states in the middle eastern region. now, obviously, everyone has their own opinion on this matter and on other related matters of all stripes, but i think we have to be honest here and own up to the fact that i'm the only one of us here right now who has actually been to israel, which if you stepped back for a moment you'd probably realise actually has no material bearing on the argument but i feel it makes me seem more worldly, which is a trait i very much wish to be able to be described as possessing, and also sophisticated and well-travelled and other such socially-desirable descriptors. anyway i'm getting sidetracked which is the last thing one is advisable to do when discussing such serious, complex, nuanced, difficult, troublesome, intractable matters such as these. the point of the matter is that i have a weak emotional stake in the proceedings which i am determined to make a centrepiece of the ongoing discussion therein, as my sense of importance and your sense of my importance are very, to be brutally frank and honest with everyone here, important. also, i think we should consider the fact that these people are putting guns in places where there are other people, and who's really to blame there? i don't know but it certainly seems like something we should be thinking about. anyway, did i mention that i've been to israel?

Cool As Ice Cream
07-24-2014, 06:46 AM
nuke craotia!

Lucky Day Spa
07-24-2014, 06:47 AM
can you expand upon that please

Cool As Ice Cream
07-24-2014, 06:55 AM
no, not really. :(
gotta nuke something?

Eulogy
07-24-2014, 10:12 AM
Lol

Cool As Ice Cream
07-24-2014, 11:22 AM
i do realise that my opinion isn't very valuable, as i've never visited croatia.

redbreegull
07-24-2014, 01:00 PM
So my honest question is: what should Israel do? Obviously not what they're doing. But I don't think nothing is the right answer either.

I honestly don't know how to answer this. Blowing up anything that moves to get to the terrorists is pretty much the lowest and most disgusting way of conducting a war, but I also think Bread Regal's point about waiting it out for hamas to run out of rockets and go home is absurd.

Truthfully I believe Israel could probably deconstruct the Hamas war machine all on foot going street by street, and this would greatly reduce civilian casualties. A lot more Israelis would be killed though. It's not really difficult to understand why a country would choose killing a ton of foreigners over letting a ton of their own people die to take the moral high road. Particularly a large Israeli death toll would be anathema to Netanyahu and co. because their entire ethos is built in them being strong-armed defenders at the gate.


So what is it? An accident? More kids have died than militants.
Is the Israeli military so untrained that they accidentally hit a hospital or shelters they previously declared as refugee zone for civilians?

no, not an accident. The goal is simply to disable Hamas weapons with extreme prejudice no matter what, and if there are some civilians in the area so be it. unforgivable, yes, but I don't see any advantage for Israel in actually targeting civilians as a tactic. Hamas certainly does not care, and in fact the civilian deaths bolster Hamas' position and isolate Israel.

Trotskilicious
07-24-2014, 11:51 PM
i feel like i've had an argument with RBG about how many people need to die before we call it genocide. honestly lately every thread gives me deja vu.

but he's visited israel, he knows some people there. he had love and laughs and acoustic guitar jams with some amazing folks. he's seen things you people wouldn't believe

Trotskilicious
07-24-2014, 11:55 PM
Word counts are really really really not good for vocabulary, I've found.

i'm pretty sure it results in people like Manohla Dargis

well, and señor ding dong here

Trotskilicious
07-25-2014, 12:00 AM
i was surprised to learn that the definition includes cultural annihilation, a deliberate effort to destroy a ethnicity, race or religion, and that doesn't necessarily involve mass murder. i think the more general definition makes a lot of sense, and it could be argued the israel's treatment of civilian palestinians is exactly that.

kinda like native americans amirite usa #1

Trotskilicious
07-25-2014, 12:01 AM
wave of trotskilicious

way hay-hay hay-have

Bread Regal
07-25-2014, 12:04 AM
drive my car

into the ocea-a-an

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 02:10 AM
hey, if we're doing pixies lyrics...
but he's visited israel, he knows some people there. he had love and laughs and acoustic guitar jams with some amazing folks. he's seen things you people wouldn't believe
she's a real left winger 'cause she been down south and held peasants in her arms she said i could tell you a story that could make you cry
WHAT ABOUT YOU I SAID ME TOO I SAID I COULD TELL YOU A STORY THAT WILL MAKE YOU CRY

smashingjj
07-25-2014, 02:19 AM
Stuck here out of gas Out here on the Gaza Strip

Trotskilicious
07-25-2014, 02:25 AM
hahaha she's a real left winger cause she's been down south and held peasants in her arms

oh frank, you're so great

there you go, that nailed it.

Trotskilicious
07-25-2014, 02:26 AM
ride the tiger down river euphrates

askljrasrrasgghahhshahnngnh!!!!!

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 02:30 AM
*TYRE/tire

or is it tiger anyway?

Trotskilicious
07-25-2014, 02:33 AM
i'm pretty sure it's tiger

Trotskilicious
07-25-2014, 02:33 AM
bram you are an untroo fan

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 04:59 AM
i'm definitely not an untroo fan.
and i'm pretty sure it tyre. mainly because he says "tyre" and not "tiger".

Lucky Day Spa
07-25-2014, 05:10 AM
plus one for tiger

Lucky Day Spa
07-25-2014, 05:11 AM
1:08 tiGER

Trotskilicious
07-25-2014, 05:19 AM
JFGI! it's right there "tiger was made official by pixies.com"

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 06:54 AM
1:08 tiGER

i think you're right. there (and at the end of the song, at 2:16 and 2:23) it's tiger. everywhere else it's tyre though. so it's both.

and if you listen to the re-recorded version on the gigantic single (also included on complete 'b'-sides, for example), there's no tiger at all. tyre everywhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G77mnuY6_g

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 06:57 AM
JFGI! it's right there "tiger was made official by pixies.com"
link?

pixies.com doesn't exist, by the way. the official website is pixiesmusic.com these days. and there it says "tire": http://www.pixiesmusic.com/song/river-euphrates/

Lucky Day Spa
07-25-2014, 07:19 AM
and if you listen to the re-recorded version on the gigantic single (also included on complete 'b'-sides, for example), there's no tiger at all. tyre everywhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G77mnuY6_g

still sounds like tygre to me

smashingjj
07-25-2014, 08:07 AM
you're all being silly, he clearly sings 'i went bowling'

MyOneAndOnly
07-25-2014, 08:14 AM
I think what happened in Rwanda had the specific goal of murdering/eliminating people of a particular group. I don't personally think that anyone but some real extremists in Israel want to kill Palestinians because they are Palestinians. When I argued about this with someone else the other day, the other party said a lot of things like, "but in effect..."

well I guess you could make that argument although I think the killing of a few hundred or even a few thousand people is kind of a flimsy argument for genocide without the intent to kill them BECAUSE of their nationality. Truthfully, a shit ton of civilians are killed in all wars. Are all wars genocides?

Americans probably killed 100,000+ civilians in Iraq. Was it an Iraqi genocide? I'm not setting up a strawman, just trying to find where the borders of this term are because it seems to mean an increasing number of things



gen·o·cide


/ˈjenəˌsīd/

noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides

the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

synonyms: mass murder, mass homicide, massacre; annihilation, extermination, elimination, liquidation, eradication, decimation, butchery, bloodletting; pogrom, ethnic cleansing, holocaust

"a tyrant guilty of genocide"

MyOneAndOnly
07-25-2014, 08:17 AM
I would agree that civilian casualties of war would not necessarily warrant the term Genocide if civilians were not the aim or targets of a military. But only to an extent.

It doesn't mean that a mass killing has to approach the scale or organization of the Jewish or Armenian Holocausts to garner the term. The term "Holocaust" was applied to the Jewish genocide specifically because the term genocide was not sufficiently strong or weighty to convey the scale and intent involved.

You can therefore apply the term to other forms of mass killing.

Fire bombing Dresden or Nuking two cities in Japan might be considered Genocide. Since the goal was to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Eulogy
07-25-2014, 08:48 AM
Would, however, might be

duovamp
07-25-2014, 09:20 AM
Aren't most wars against specific nations or countries? Or groups of people? Like always?

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 09:58 AM
Fire bombing Dresden or Nuking two cities in Japan would, however, might be considered Genocide. Since the goal was to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians.

i completely disagree. that's not what genocide is.
and was that even the goal?

pavementtune
07-25-2014, 10:05 AM
http://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756384/obo-9780199756384-0029.xml
The field’s growth came initially through the extension of understandings of the Nazi genocide of the Jews, which by the late 20th century was known as “the Holocaust,” to other cases, both historic (such as the Ottoman extermination of the Armenians) and contemporary (such as the Cambodian and Rwandan genocides). However, it has since expanded to consider phenomena quite different from the Holocaust in scale and form, such as the diverse and long-drawn-out pattern of genocide during European colonization of the non-Western world. At the same time, the transformations of political violence and war in the post–Cold War world have led to new divergences over the applicability of the genocide idea to recent events. Recent cases, such as the former Yugoslavia, have raised questions about the relationships of population removal and sexual violence to genocide. Because of these tensions, the growth of the field has been accompanied by theoretical, paradigm, and political differences.

Doesn't sound like there is a general agreement how to use the term at all.

MyOneAndOnly
07-25-2014, 01:29 PM
i completely disagree. that's not what genocide is.
and was that even the goal?

"deliberate killing of a large group of people"



the goal was to destroy the infrastructure and industry of the city and take out the workers who were employed in heavy equipment plants. The bombing campaigns by both the Axis and Allied forces were designed to weaken the populations of those countries. The allies killed over 200,000 civilians alone just in Dresden. That's a conservative estimate. I've seen some claims that it was closer to 500,000 people.

Based on the definition of genocide, that fits. You don't have to attempt to eradicate every single person on Earth of a particular ethnicity or religion to qualify as committing genocide.

Look at pictures of any German city that sustained heavy bombing. Koln was nothing but rubble. The only thing standing afterwards was the cathedral. Was every apartment house in Koln a military target?

After a war the winners always define the language used to remember it. Which is the only reason we don't refer to Hiroshima or Dresden as genocide.


.

MyOneAndOnly
07-25-2014, 01:41 PM
Doesn't sound like there is a general agreement how to use the term at all.

that's the "problem" with english. it's never static. the use and meaning of much of the language is constantly changing.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 03:37 PM
"deliberate killing of a large group of people"

that's not the definition.

MyOneAndOnly
07-25-2014, 04:47 PM
I posted it above. what the fuck more do you want?

Order 66
07-25-2014, 05:16 PM
http://forums.netphoria.org/customavatars/avatar25839_47.gif

Bread Regal
07-25-2014, 06:43 PM
apparently we have a 12-hour ceasefire.

i hate life.

Bread Regal
07-26-2014, 11:32 PM
Just read about this thing that Bibi said in '07 that should put the "is this genocide?" question to rest.

In his speech, Netanyahu referred to the cuts in child pensions, saying that since they were implemented “two positive things happened: members of the Haredi public seriously joined the workforce. And on the national level, the unexpected result was the demographic effect on the non-Jewish public, where there was a dramatic drop in the birth rate.”

http://972mag.com/when-zionism-is-racism-bibi-netanyahu-and-ron-dermer-on-the-record/75515/

Trotskilicious
07-26-2014, 11:45 PM
ride my DICK down river euphrates

redbreegull
07-27-2014, 08:26 AM
The term "Holocaust" was applied to the Jewish genocide specifically because the term genocide was not sufficiently strong or weighty to convey the scale and intent involved

The field’s growth came initially through the extension of understandings of the Nazi genocide of the Jews, which by the late 20th century was known as “the Holocaust,”


you're an idiot scotty

pavementtune
07-27-2014, 09:26 AM
ooops, some casualties here and there...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtjlFKECIAEel6_.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btjm3SfCQAILEhj.jpg:large

Bread Regal
07-27-2014, 10:25 AM
hell of a pinpoint operation.

MyOneAndOnly
07-27-2014, 11:29 AM
there's a tunnel in there somewhere. or maybe it's over there

The Omega Concern
07-28-2014, 05:15 PM
http://rense.com/1.imagesH/pile-(R).jpg

Order 66
07-28-2014, 05:20 PM
fuuuuck yea uncle joe smokin pakis lke a boss

Bread Regal
07-28-2014, 05:21 PM
Probably the only one of those that's actually grounded in reality.

pavementtune
07-28-2014, 08:09 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtqhGqxCIAEPK99.jpg


Where to? Oh yea, maybe to the safe zones... like UN shelters, hospitals...
Leave now, catch you later hahaha!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btqg4p_CYAAGeRh.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btq5FjPCUAI-vK9.jpg

MyOneAndOnly
07-28-2014, 08:41 PM
Imagine how many Jews would have been saved if the brown shirts had just sent them a text!

Future Boy
07-28-2014, 08:50 PM
i wonder who Hillary is waving to

Bread Regal
07-28-2014, 09:22 PM
bubba

duovamp
07-28-2014, 09:36 PM
PS whats up STUD?!!
lol j/k
;)

MyOneAndOnly
07-28-2014, 09:54 PM
http://northshorewaterman.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/my-day.gif

pavementtune
07-29-2014, 09:50 AM
hey, teh bolly! :)
How are you??

The Omega Concern
07-29-2014, 06:54 PM
Probably the only one of those that's actually grounded in reality.



You sayin Biden is the only one of those four that deserve to be depicted as such?


Surely, you jest.

Trotskilicious
07-29-2014, 08:28 PM
wow

<img src="http://www.averagemarrieddad.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg">

Future Boy
07-29-2014, 10:38 PM
You sayin Biden is the only one of those four that deserve to be depicted as such?


Surely, you jest.
he wasnt replying to order