View Full Version : Age of Innocence


Trotskilicious
07-15-2014, 04:14 PM
Really is a top notch song maybe i will need to relisten to machina some 14 years later perhaps my earballs will think of different things?

desolation yes!
hesitation no!

what the fuck does that mean who care

slunken
07-15-2014, 04:19 PM
it means we are doomed

Raskolnikov
07-15-2014, 04:46 PM
Rock solid jam. Love it.

Always pair that one with Wound for some reason in my mind, and while Wound might beat it out by a titch somehow, it's a close call.

redbull
07-15-2014, 04:49 PM
imploding voice is the most underrated jam

GLOWer
07-15-2014, 04:50 PM
yes to age. yes to imploding voice. yes to wound. all awesome.

panda show
07-15-2014, 04:56 PM
I love both machina I & II.. (and the EPs from MII, there's some great stuff on there - stuff like 'slow dawn').. although as a whole, I think I like Machina I a bit more, only because I love so many of its songs.. there's only like 2-3 songs that I don't like as much as the others (crying tree of mercury, glass&the ghost children, blue skies bring tears).. whereas on Machina II, I really dig only about a half of it

redbull
07-15-2014, 04:58 PM
probably a good time to post the acoustic imploding voice

https://archive.org/details/tsp2000-07-02.flac16

adamdanger!
07-15-2014, 05:53 PM
Acoustic version of Imploding Voice really showcases how great of a song it is. The production on all of Machina really blew it for me though.

adamdanger!
07-15-2014, 05:54 PM
Plus I liked preferred the title Virex

Order 66
07-15-2014, 06:03 PM
good song but probably the weakest outro on any of his albums

i remember reading the lyrics before the album dropped and i thought it'd be a thrash metal song coz of 'desolation yes hesitation no'

herzogxyu
07-15-2014, 06:17 PM
yes to age. yes to imploding voice. yes to wound. all awesome.
yes to home!
hopefully some day we'll have a clear audible version of white spyder and a couple of the other M2 tracks that were so loud.
and yes to the arising version of blue skies.

herzogxyu
07-15-2014, 06:23 PM
good song but probably the weakest outro on any of his albums
it was definitely a good show opener. i don't really know how machina should have ended. maybe omit BSBT and close with let me give the world to you and home?

slunken
07-15-2014, 06:24 PM
Anyone have a link handy for piano crying tree?

milk-plus
07-15-2014, 06:28 PM
Acoustic version of Imploding Voice really showcases how great of a song it is. The production on all of Machina really blew it for me though.


Yeah, it's a shame the production ruined many songs. I really love Wound but I can't really enjoy the studio version. Another song that was ruined for me was Crying Tree of Mercury, I prefer the piano only version.

milk-plus
07-15-2014, 06:30 PM
Anyone have a link handy for piano crying tree?

I have a mp3 of the song, don't remember where I got it. I can upload it

slunken
07-15-2014, 06:37 PM
That would be fine. Thanks.

milk-plus
07-15-2014, 06:47 PM
here it is:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tyn1wrqcx1gi1e/Crying%20Tree%20of%20Mercury%20%28piano%29.mp3

slunken
07-15-2014, 06:48 PM
Sweet I'll grab it in a few. Thanks for the quick fix.

Shallowed
07-15-2014, 08:16 PM
Age of Innocence is the song that made me buy Machina. I was kind of put off by all the middling response to the album so I didn't bother until I heard this song, and figured everyone must be crazy if it has songs like this on it.

Well, they weren't crazy, Age of Innocence just turned out to be one of the best songs on the album, by far. This Time is also very underrated.

I still prefer Machina II overall.

pavementtune
07-15-2014, 08:22 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/daglIVFa02U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

JC looks funny in that schoolboy uniform

slunken
07-15-2014, 09:02 PM
I saw Smash Pump at an instore during this time

slunken
07-15-2014, 09:56 PM
it wuz tite

Bread Regal
07-16-2014, 02:44 AM
imploding voice is the most underrated jam
people pile on top of this and heavy metal machine and i dont get it. love those songs.

null123
07-16-2014, 02:51 AM
Machina has always been good, welcome to the winner's circle

MusicMan4
07-16-2014, 03:17 AM
Hate HMM but always liked imploding voice
I didn't know they were lumped together
The standard is basically HMM, BSBT, and uh CTOM if I have all my acronyms right
Those three suck
Most of the rest is real good
I skip Gaze a lot though

Order 66
07-16-2014, 03:23 AM
the greatest unfinished album ever

Funbags
07-16-2014, 03:40 AM
JC looks funny in that schoolboy uniform

At the end, Billy says "See Jimmy, you ARE the difference". :(

Sonic Johnny
07-16-2014, 04:38 AM
Acoustic version of Imploding Voice really showcases how great of a song it is. The production on all of Machina really blew it for me though.

Totally, same thing with Wound too. Acoustic version is almost perfect and album version is like a whole different song.

Shallowed
07-16-2014, 04:44 AM
http://i.imgur.com/lfDcfwa.gif

redbreegull
07-16-2014, 02:42 PM
Age is a great song and especially the last minute or so is awesome, but I agree with whoever said the outro is lackluster. I always feel like some crazy guitar thing should happen at the end or there should be some sort of extended outro, but instead the song just peters out

Spira|_
07-17-2014, 04:58 AM
Machinas are great albums. Hard to understand at the time, but now they sound better than any other SP album for me. I dont mean Machinas are more "masterpiece" than MCIS, but they give me more pleasure to listen now than MCIS.
Cannot explain it better. My theory is all SP albums before Machinas sound "old fashionate" actually and Machinas not.

Rider
07-17-2014, 09:16 AM
People always bitched endlessly about all the songs I enjoyed the most on Machina. Wound, Imploding Voice, This Time... It's like it was cool to bash the more straightforward stuff while praising the IMHO terrible, ponderous, and pretentious crap like CTOM.

adamdanger!
07-17-2014, 10:44 AM
This Time has always been one of my favorite SP songs. Straightforward rock but still some awesome dynamics and textures. And the lyrics... "Someday we'll wave hello and wish we'd never waved goodbye". Gives my boner goosebumps.

panda show
07-17-2014, 12:24 PM
People always bitched endlessly about all the songs I enjoyed the most on Machina. Wound, Imploding Voice, This Time... It's like it was cool to bash the more straightforward stuff while praising the IMHO terrible, ponderous, and pretentious crap like CTOM.as far as I've seen - most people like This Time and Wound..

I mean, at least I do. they're both great songs.

Spira|_
07-17-2014, 05:56 PM
This Time acoustic version at Budokan, Japan is one of the best/deep/sincere moments of Billy ever.

And one of the best song lyrics ever.... "For every chemical you trade a piece of your soul... with no return".

22:7
07-17-2014, 09:00 PM
I am amazed by the near consensus here regarding these Machina songs. I think AOI is a standout track in an underrated album. But perhaps even moreso is I of the Mourning. When the songs hits its crescendo, billy sing/screaming "Radio! Radio! What is it you want? What is it you want to hear?" just gives me chills. It's personal and it's metaphysical. It works so well in the concept of the album, and is a great stand alone song. I'm glad it was a single at least. Thoughts??

Eulogy
07-17-2014, 09:20 PM
What is it you want to change

And wait the end of AoI is perfect. That last chorus gives me legitimate chills. Still. Would have been a perfect note to end the band on imo.

iPumpkin
07-17-2014, 10:34 PM
Love me some Machina. Really love that whole era. Best tour, best live versions of MCIS songs, Melissa was kicking ass, Bill clearly didn't give a fuck anymore, the shows were heavy, which ironically made James even better live.

autumn_amnesiac
07-17-2014, 11:42 PM
i always liked the dynamics of the acoustic guitars used alongside the intro of the tracks.
the drums on the intro gave me a hella boner when i heard them the first time. still have to play the line when i'm in front a drum kit. shows the genius of jc in such a simple line where the dynamics are coming from only the bass drum and hi-hat chokes.
machina was the only album i bought twice growing up, my first copy broke in my backpack during high school, and the other one died a noble death in the cd drawer in my car.

herzogxyu
07-18-2014, 12:22 AM
I can't wait to hear some demos from this era. I'd love to hear a clean straightforward mix of virex. That dropping the drums out from stereo to mono and that fizzy tape recorded guitar was cool for 2000 but definitely sounds dated. Id love to hear a less blown out version of i of the mourning. That reverbed delayed guitar and that awesomechorus effect in the verses is great. Billys solos are great.
Fucking love me some I of the mourning

Shallowed
07-18-2014, 12:42 AM
Almost every line from This Time is great.

herzogxyu
07-18-2014, 12:48 AM
This time is one of the ultimate pumpkin tracks. Right up there with mayonnaise soma tonight. Again that reverbed intro guitar and jimmys fantastic drumming. Bass, line was great too. Love to hear the demo or first take

Order 66
07-18-2014, 12:56 AM
This Time was always my least favorite track (i thought CToM was more of an arty vignette of sorts).. sounded like latter day U2 with an ax symphony behind it. which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if i had to pic the weakest of the bunch...

either way though good to see people finally coming around on machina

Trotskilicious
07-18-2014, 02:42 AM
People always bitched endlessly about all the songs I enjoyed the most on Machina. Wound, Imploding Voice, This Time... It's like it was cool to bash the more straightforward stuff while praising the IMHO terrible, ponderous, and pretentious crap like CTOM.

i see, so you even misinterpret events to make yourself out to be the outlier and the victim of sheeple

interesting

Trotskilicious
07-18-2014, 02:45 AM
you know maybe if the fan base was nicer about what was really a pretty thorough attempt at a compex concept album we wouldn't have bill as he is today

my sp buddy was listening to this at D&D night on vinyl and i'm looking through the artwork that way and i'm even more impressed with it than i was 14 years ago

Order 66
07-18-2014, 02:50 AM
one little neat thing i noticed is if you flip the CD over it's an eye, with the vertical lines in the center being a cornea... eye of the radio and all that. thought it was clever

also i remember my friends and i holding the artwork up to lamplight and seeing all these hidden things. but i was like 17 and high for one of the first times so i dunno if i was just seeing things or what

RenewRevive
07-18-2014, 04:17 AM
Age is a great song and especially the last minute or so is awesome, but I agree with whoever said the outro is lackluster. I always feel like some crazy guitar thing should happen at the end or there should be some sort of extended outro, but instead the song just peters out

Nah, it's perfect the way it is. A curse of some Machina songs is they go on too long, so I am really happy they didn't with this one.

What is it you want to change

And wait the end of AoI is perfect. That last chorus gives me legitimate chills. Still. Would have been a perfect note to end the band on imo.

Agreed. A song that grabbed me on first listen and still retains it's hold all these years later. A gem, one of several of SP's best that appear on this underrated album.

Almost every line from This Time is great.

Yes.

Always puzzles me that reviewers of Machina, irrespective of whether they slate it or not actually, never seem to pick up on AOI and This Time just being amazing songs. IotM never gets the love either.

pavementtune
07-18-2014, 06:10 AM
also i remember my friends and i holding the artwork up to lamplight and seeing all these hidden things. but i was like 17 and high for one of the first times so i dunno if i was just seeing things or what
same here, I prefer to think these things are really there

panda show
07-18-2014, 08:25 AM
I am amazed by the near consensus here regarding these Machina songs. I think AOI is a standout track in an underrated album. But perhaps even moreso is I of the Mourning. When the songs hits its crescendo, billy sing/screaming "Radio! Radio! What is it you want? What is it you want to hear?" just gives me chills. It's personal and it's metaphysical. It works so well in the concept of the album, and is a great stand alone song. I'm glad it was a single at least. Thoughts??I of the Mourning is probably my favorite (or maybe 2nd favorite) song from Machina.. I can't really describe with words how much I love that song.

Slurpee
07-18-2014, 11:48 AM
imploding voice is the most underrated jam

:banging::banging::banging:

Rider
07-18-2014, 12:00 PM
i see, so you even misinterpret events to make yourself out to be the outlier and the victim of sheeple

interesting

Not biting trots. Sorry all your normal targets got banned yesterday. Fuzzy is still around you can try him.

Rider
07-18-2014, 12:05 PM
also i remember my friends and i holding the artwork up to lamplight and seeing all these hidden things. but i was like 17 and high for one of the first times so i dunno if i was just seeing things or what

I remember a thread on AMSP where someone did the with the PI linear notes and trying to make a big deal out of the fact that when you did that you would see Billy shine through from the picture on the back and all the other band members would be blacked out. Some big hidden message about how Billy was the only who played on the songs or something.

Then you had the people who would suddenly notice the subtle thing they did on the Machina artwork where it looks like the CD art has partially transferred to the booklet and people would think that this had some actually occurred and not realize it was done intentionally.

D.
07-18-2014, 12:36 PM
The standard is basically HMM, BSBT, and uh CTOM if I have all my acronyms right
Those three suck
Most of the rest is real good
Agree.

I'd also add that 'Home' is top three unofficially released tunes.

Spira|_
07-18-2014, 07:10 PM
Not biting trots. Sorry all your normal targets got banned yesterday. Fuzzy is still around you can try him.

Who was banned?
Indeed I was thinking what Juliana says about AoI?..

slunken
07-18-2014, 07:17 PM
You were banned. How are you posting? Are you a hacker? That's grounds for permaban.

Spira|_
07-18-2014, 07:41 PM
Im always delayed on the news.

Spira|_
07-18-2014, 07:42 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/9-2ZfdFrAHM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Order 66
07-18-2014, 09:22 PM
i remember being blown away by the solo in this I of the Mourning performance

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/N-397wTFlVw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

null123
07-18-2014, 09:52 PM
I'd also add that 'Home' is top three unofficially released tunes.

Yea

MusicMan4
07-18-2014, 11:07 PM
I wish Gaze didn't have the acapella part and that the main riff wasn't produced to where. Ugh I don't know how to describe it exactly, and this is gonna sound dumb from someone who listens to so much noise and grind music but it just really is nails on a chalkboard to me
But then the chorus is just like pure bliss the way it sounds
And I think that juxtaposition was almost definitely partially intentional but the sound of the guitars during the verse just really bothers me so much
So I have to skip it like 7/10 times
It's frustrating

Hi I'm just posting

Order 66
07-18-2014, 11:39 PM
at first i didn't like the c tuned guitars and i was like why doesn't he just bring back the MCIS tones but later it grew on me. made for some cool harmonies with all the open chords played on the album

kinda disappointed they went back to e flat with sheitgeist but i guess it wouldn't fit what that was going for

TuralyonW3
07-18-2014, 11:45 PM
Having to work so hard to try to enjoy music lol

Shallowed
07-19-2014, 01:00 AM
Fuck yes Home is one of the GOAT Pumpkins songs ever. I love all the love songs of this era.

ONLY LOVE CAN WIN
LOVE IS EVERYTHING I WANT

Trotskilicious
07-19-2014, 02:05 AM
Not biting trots. Sorry all your normal targets got banned yesterday. Fuzzy is still around you can try him.

consistent throughout, always the only man wise enough to be against the sheeple

Ram27
07-19-2014, 10:46 AM
But then the chorus is just like pure bliss the way it sounds


That's what I love about lots of the Machina songs, despite the 'wall of sound' complaints




AoI is really good, and fits well as the last official song on the last real album with the last real lineup.

pavementtune
07-19-2014, 12:11 PM
Loving the 2000 live recs of Speed Kills and the acoustic version as well.
Overall, I appreciate Machina more than I did when it came out.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ee60VxeWBs8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/waDfIaboWXE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ram27
07-19-2014, 01:52 PM
I'm not a fan of the 2000 acoustic sets.

During the MCIS tour they played songs that were already acoustic on the album, and it was nice. But during Machina they played songs like Drown, SIYL, Muzzle, etc that were kickass rock songs that almost felt wasted with acoustic guitars.

redbull
07-19-2014, 02:04 PM
counterpoint: the spaced out acoustic versions of Glass and the Ghost Children are awesome

slunken
07-19-2014, 02:25 PM
And the acoustic versions of Today

panda show
07-19-2014, 04:02 PM
I must say that I really don't like any other version of today other than the original.. they just don't work for me..
especially the arising tour alternate version..

Spira|_
07-19-2014, 06:20 PM
Omfg that speed kills acoustic version is awesome.
Didnt know it...

Ram27
07-19-2014, 07:06 PM
The alt. Today always sounds like they're going to play Rhinoceros

Ram27
07-23-2014, 10:50 PM
I'm way too eager now to click on random links from new accounts

Ram27
07-23-2014, 11:01 PM
Holy shit

reprise85
07-24-2014, 12:42 AM
wuuuut

reprise85
07-24-2014, 12:43 AM
since it seems that requests are being filled i'd like some slow dawn next pls

reprise85
07-24-2014, 12:45 AM
this is awesome, thanks

reprise85
07-24-2014, 12:45 AM
i always love how leaks are always so mysterious with this band

Trotskilicious
07-24-2014, 01:32 AM
i think they are usually pretty mysterious

Shallowed
07-24-2014, 01:38 AM
WUUUUUUUUUUT

Trotskilicious
07-24-2014, 01:54 AM
that's certainly an image that you posted there

Shallowed
07-24-2014, 01:58 AM
Yes.

panda show
07-24-2014, 04:24 AM
what the actual fuck

who are you people

null123
07-24-2014, 04:39 AM
I can't figure out what to click on to get that file this is so sad

Cool As Ice Cream
07-24-2014, 04:43 AM
http://forums.netphoria.org/customavatars/avatar11943_21.gif

null123
07-24-2014, 04:45 AM
Why do people keep hitting me with the post/av I don't get it
I'm very lost and confused

Cool As Ice Cream
07-24-2014, 05:00 AM
First it says "Please wait xx seconds to download the file." on the right, at the bottom.
Then, after a certain amount of seconds, a link with "Click here to download" appears.

null123
07-24-2014, 05:04 AM
thenk you

slunken
07-24-2014, 11:34 AM
I'm at work at the moment. Is this a demo of "home"?

slunken
07-24-2014, 11:42 AM
\o/

pavementtune
08-05-2014, 10:41 AM
Really is a top notch song maybe i will need to relisten to machina some 14 years later perhaps my earballs will think of different things?

desolation yes!
hesitation no!

what the fuck does that mean who care

I'm watching the Budokan DVD, they started with AoI. Hell of a performance, I have no idea why it wasn't one of my favorites back then. Must have been deaf.

https://archive.org/details/tsp2000-06-30.dsm.flac16

as you might have guessed
we won't make it home

JC wtf

Ram27
08-05-2014, 11:54 AM
The hihat disco beat thing on this, Tonight, and Everlasting Gaze are so cool.