View Full Version : There should be magnet linked torrents on spfc.org to demos, etc.


Pages : [1] 2 3

CrabbMan
06-11-2014, 05:18 PM
All the stuff that's not on archive.org. Or if spfc.org can't host magnet links they should be here. Like as a replacement to the sphub. Or is that still around?

Cool As Ice Cream
06-12-2014, 02:48 AM
the hub is no longer around.

magikarp99
06-12-2014, 02:02 PM
There are far too many 13 editions of the demos floating around instead of the originals. It would be good to recirculate all the original rips/leaks

CrabbMan
06-12-2014, 09:21 PM
I mean, I would totally be a longterm seeder. I don't know if it would easier to have one big torrent or a bunch of individual ones for each demo/recording session/mixtape , but either way it would be nice to have some sort of pseudo-official torrents of what the Pumpkins trading community knows to be the best circulating source.

magikarp99
06-13-2014, 05:07 AM
Does anyone have the original files for Adore II and QAOS, as they were leaked here a few years ago?

Cool As Ice Cream
06-13-2014, 05:25 AM
i believe i do.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-13-2014, 05:27 AM
are torrents the way to go, or would something like megaupload also be a good option?

some of these demos can be found on zomb, but a lot of them have tracks that have been removed, because they're too close to what has been officially released. which is then of course not what we want.

magikarp99
06-13-2014, 05:35 AM
Torrents are better if we want them to be available indefinitely.

We certainly don't want versions with tracks cut out.

slunken
06-13-2014, 06:48 AM
Most of what's on zomb are 13 versions

Cool As Ice Cream
06-13-2014, 07:36 AM
Torrents are better if we want them to be available indefinitely.

torrents can die too, no?
dunno.

and what "version" should we go for then?
pick the originally shared .shn files, if that's how a set was first shared, without any changes?
or get all these original sets, convert to flac, if necessary, and rename and tag the files in a uniform way, and then torrent those updated sets as the new "best source available"?

i've got machina II (q101 and virgin) straight from the original cd sets, by the way. that could be added too. (these are also available on what.)

warewolf95
06-13-2014, 08:07 AM
Check out Zappateers. They have everything like this except for Frank Zappa and they've got a damn perfect setup.

Just make separate torrents, - categorized by year/session/tour/whatever - for each of the "releases" we have

Easy

Ok, I don't know shit about the technical side of any of this, but it definitely seems the best way to go, imo.

magikarp99
06-13-2014, 12:41 PM
torrents can die too, no?
dunno.

There is no perfect solution.

There are two ways a torrent can die:

People don't seed it
The tracker removes it

You can mitigate the second point by using lots of public trackers.
The first point will be a problem (see cessation of grandeur), but this could be mitigated by using a private tracker, but then you can only have one tracker, and not everyone will have access. The private tracker may also impose restrictions on their format and tags.

With a DDL site like Mega there is a single point of failure. Files may get removed due to a DMCA request, the hosting service may just remove them, or it may get shut down.

and what "version" should we go for then?
pick the originally shared .shn files, if that's how a set was first shared, without any changes?
or get all these original sets, convert to flac, if necessary, and rename and tag the files in a uniform way, and then torrent those updated sets as the new "best source available"?

We should either share the original files as they were released or leaked, or the same files converted to FLAC. I don't have any preference regarding tags.
We should aim to share the original unmodified audio. This means no noise reduction, perhaps even no track splitting. We don't want to end up in the same situation again where the only thing in active circulation are 13 editions.

I think the QAOS and Adore II demos are the most tricky files here, and is probably what we should base our decision on. They were released as WAVs with funny names, some of the releases were individual songs while some were entire tape sides as one file. I think all of that should be preserved as it is, but perhaps they should be transcoded to FLAC.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-13-2014, 02:48 PM
I think the QAOS and Adore II demos are the most tricky files here, and is probably what we should base our decision on. They were released as WAVs with funny names, some of the releases were individual songs while some were entire tape sides as one file. I think all of that should be preserved as it is, but perhaps they should be transcoded to FLAC.
i don't see how splitting in tracks would be a problem: you don't lose any information. if you really want to, you can always join the different tracks again. although i wouldn't know why anyone would want to do that.

other option: provide a .cue file. then everyone who wants to burn with or split into different tracks, can quickly do it, without any extra effort.

i prefer separate tracks for the "standard" set though. unless it's agreed that everything is shared in its original form (.shn, huge .wav, etc.).

warewolf95
06-13-2014, 03:44 PM
We should either share the original files as they were released or leaked, or the same files converted to FLAC. I don't have any preference regarding tags.
We should aim to share the original unmodified audio. This means no noise reduction, perhaps even no track splitting. We don't want to end up in the same situation again where the only thing in active circulation are 13 editions.

I think the QAOS and Adore II demos are the most tricky files here, and is probably what we should base our decision on. They were released as WAVs with funny names, some of the releases were individual songs while some were entire tape sides as one file. I think all of that should be preserved as it is, but perhaps they should be transcoded to FLAC.


I think at least simple tracksplitting would be ok as long as everything is labeled/documented as it should be.

CrabbMan
06-13-2014, 08:04 PM
get all these original sets, convert to flac, if necessary, and rename and tag the files in a uniform way, and then torrent those updated sets as the new "best source available"

other option: provide a .cue file. then everyone who wants to burn with or split into different tracks, can quickly do it, without any extra effort.

I don't think there's any need to keep it to the original format or tagging. That something was released into circulation as a WAV, SHN, split or single files is only because that's what was best for it's time. There was totally a time when you'd download and burn to CD, and single files with cue sheets made sense then (do people still burn CDs?). But since the conversion to FLAC is lossless, there's no reason not to use some sensible consistent standard for naming and tagging. That way you don't need separate files for sharing and for your media library (as long as your media library software doesn't try to edit the tags).

Check out Zappateers. They have everything like this except for Frank Zappa and they've got a damn perfect setup.

That's some great community sharing, but sheesh they don't really have the same touch at coding for the web like spfc.org. That site is really beautifully done, and it would be nearly perfect if there were links to all the stuff that couldn't be hosted on archive.org.

As for the public/private tracker issue, while there are advantages to private trackers, I don't know that there are any existing ones that would be the right fit. You don't want it excluding any files or users (damn that what.cd is exclusive!). But ultimately we have to rely on there being enough participants of the Pumpkins trading community to keep the stuff seeded. Assuming archive.org can be there most live stuff, what.cd for rare official releases, how much could it be, 15-20GB?

Shallowed
06-13-2014, 10:47 PM
The format of the original leaked audio is only up to whoever leaked it in the first place. Sometimes the tags can be incorrect, such as song titles getting miscredited as other songs. Personally, I'd prefer if everything was in flac and all had the same standardised tagging.

magikarp99
06-14-2014, 02:54 AM
In that case we should take the original audio files:

Split them into tracks (without deleting any gaps)
Convert them to FLAC
Tag them appropriately

CrabbMan
06-15-2014, 03:00 AM
Alright, well I guess there's nothing stopping me from trying to get started. Unless someone else is more enthusiastic about it. I suppose I should start by going through what I've got and listing it with checksums of the files to make sure they're the same as what anyone else has.

magikarp99
06-15-2014, 08:45 AM
What is going to be inclu ded in this? Are we going to limit it to pumpkins demos? What about the Psycho Tape and 666?

Anything else? Rough mixes? Premasters?

Cool As Ice Cream
06-15-2014, 12:08 PM
Does anyone have the original files for Adore II and QAOS, as they were leaked here a few years ago?

i found them. i converted them to flac, so they're not the original files, but will also serve.

soniclovenoize
06-15-2014, 05:05 PM
Let me know when this is done, and I'll contribute and seed.

CrabbMan
06-17-2014, 05:54 AM
So what I envisioned the purpose of the these torrents to be, and chime in if you think it should be different, is to have a single collection of all the significant Smashing Pumpkins recordings that cannot be hosted on archive.org, what.cd, or Zomb.

I suppose for the most part they will be torrents of full demos or studio sessions. But what about live shows that are for the most part listed on archive.org or Zomb, but have a missing track here or there because they were on an official release? Should we have torrents for each of these shows, or just a torrent or two dedicated to all the one-off songs that are part of some official release and aren't allowed on Zomb or archive.org. Honestly, I don't mind recreating some of the torrents from what.cd, but just the rare stuff, not the general releases. I actually don't know what's on what.cd specifically [since I lost my membership due to giving an invitation to an asswipe]. But the idea is to make these open and available torrents to anyone who is hardcore into the Pumpkins.

Now, assuming that you can have multiple torrents pointing to the
Things I'm wondering:
*How do we want to name & tag files, and how strict should this be?
*If a recording is already on Zomb or what, can we re-******* the same files on a different torrent without complication?

ah dammit there was more i was gonna try to say but i'm too drunk and it's too late.


My md5 list: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41112781/sp.demos.md5

magikarp99
06-17-2014, 06:20 AM
I haven't checked the MD5 sums against what I have at the moment. Perhaps FFPs would be better? MD5s will vary even with two FLACs if the compression level or tags are different, even if the music content is the same.

I see in your list though that at the moment some of yours are 13 editions, so will definitely need replacing, I have the originals I think:
Reel Time Sessions
MCIS Demos I

Pisces Iscariot and Friends will need to be split, as those are album tracks at the moment.

If we are distributing 666 audio, then we should make sure to use the original track from the 666 DVD. That DVD contains both an original and a remastered audio track. It is probably worth just re-transcoding from the original DVD to make sure it is done correctly too.

Shallowed
06-17-2014, 06:55 AM
But what about live shows that are for the most part listed on archive.org or Zomb, but have a missing track here or there because they were on an official release? Should we have torrents for each of these shows, or just a torrent or two dedicated to all the one-off songs that are part of some official release and aren't allowed on Zomb or archive.org

Could always just in clude an archive.org link to the "rest of the show"

magikarp99
06-17-2014, 10:12 AM
We should probably try and use/compare against original releases to make sure they are intact. So how was everything released? I believe I have the original releases for everything in bold.


Adore Demos II: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Quiet And Other Songs: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Adore Demos I: Bought off Ebay in 2000, how was this distributed?
Gravity Demos: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Machina Acoustic Demos: Billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich -> whoever released it
Mashed Potatoes: CDs distributed by Billy, then uploaded
MCIS Demos I: From a commerical bootleg????
MCIS Demos II: Appeared on Ebay in 2000
MCIS Demos III: ???? Multiple transfers of this circulate, originally treed with Reel Time Sessions?
Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ???? analogue cassette source
Reel Time Sessions: ????
Sequence IV: ????
Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is a DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
MCIS Rough Mixes: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing

Is that 666 audio a separate transfer to the DVD?

Cool As Ice Cream
06-17-2014, 10:41 AM
didn't the guy who (first) got 666 out (i remember .wmv files or something similar) also sell/give the audio to a bootleg company? i guess that's the original audio source.
not sure how that compares to the audio from the video upgrade. (or was there never an upgrade? this one's a bit far in my memory.)

Cool As Ice Cream
06-17-2014, 10:53 AM
Adore Demos I: Bought off Ebay in 2000, how was this distributed?
i have this as a .shn set. i assume that's how it was first shared.

MCIS Demos I: From a commerical bootleg????
this one i'm not sure about. found several sources when looking for it a couple of months ago, but none of them looked like what was around years ago, when i first downloaded it. dunno.

MCIS Demos III: ???? Multiple transfers of this circulate, originally treed with Reel Time Sessions?
i found two sources of this. one is a .shn set, so i guess that's the original one. there's also a .flac set, that claims to be a "fix".

Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ???? analogue cassette source
must be a tape source, yes. shared as two large .shn files with .cue files, if i'm not mistaken.

Reel Time Sessions: ????
didn't some people acquire a dat copy of the master tapes, via the producer or something?

Sequence IV: ????
no idea. the description mentions "this tape": http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/boot.html?boot_id=189

Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
from a cd-r, picture was included in the leak.

Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
what was on this tape again? is it of any interest?

MCIS Rough Mixes: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing
does anyone remember "gish rough mixes"? (and is that of any interest?)

soniclovenoize
06-17-2014, 11:02 AM
Adore Demos I: Bought off Ebay in 2000, how was this distributed?
i have this as a .shn set. i assume that's how it was first shared.

It was originally leaked by the owner of the master DAT to a few CD-Rs via trade to some people. Then from there it sprung to ebay and eventually the shns. I already ripped the orignal traded CD-R and upped it to whatcd last year I think.

Edit:
WWWAAAAAIIIT I guess I can't remember if it was on ebay first, then the purchaser traded it out to a few people... Forget it.

magikarp99
06-17-2014, 11:15 AM
what was on this tape again? is it of any interest?



Smashing Pumpkins
"B Sides"
16 bit version

Source: SBD>??multitrack or DAT??>Virgin Promo ("B Sides")
Transfer: Virgin Promo Tape>Sony TC-K630ES>R-09(unity gain, 24/48)
Editing: Audacity (amplified, spliced tape sides together), r8brain (downsample/dither), CDWave (split), TLH (FLAC)

01. OBSCURED
02. WHIRL
03. KITTY KAT
04. APATHY
05. BLEW AWAY (VERSION 1)
06. BLEW AWAY (VERSION 2)
07. PISSANT
08. FRENCH MOVIE THEME
09. PURR SHNICKETY

I'm guessing these were given to Virgin for potential inclusion as b-sides for the various Siamese Dream singles

thanks to bmaromar for the tape
-rhinowing


Kitty Kat is the same original mix as was on the Siamese Dream promo cassette. Definitely worth including

magikarp99
06-17-2014, 11:33 AM
does anyone remember "gish rough mixes"? (and is that of any interest?)

I don't remember this.

How about TheFutureEmbrace premaster (was that ever circulated in anything but mp3?)

magikarp99
06-17-2014, 11:46 AM
MCIS Demos III: ???? Multiple transfers of this circulate, originally treed with Reel Time Sessions?
i found two sources of this. one is a .shn set, so i guess that's the original one. there's also a .flac set, that claims to be a "fix".


If you have the same fix I do, it also claims to be of a lower generation. I guess someone who has both needs to compare them and determine which should be used.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-17-2014, 12:55 PM
Kitty Kat is the same original mix as was on the Siamese Dream promo cassette. Definitely worth including

are you sure? i thought it was the other way around (it was the b-side/pisces version), and that even the two versions of blew away were identical.

magikarp99
06-17-2014, 02:10 PM
are you sure? i thought it was the other way around (it was the b-side/pisces version), and that even the two versions of blew away were identical.

Oh, wow, yeah you are entirely right. In which case let's incIude Kitty Kat Original Mix too then. I have a cassette rip in FLAC. I think it was posted on Netphoria some time.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-17-2014, 02:16 PM
but isn't that one unlistenable?

(not that that necessarily means it shouldn't be shared, of course. everyone can still decide what they want to download, and what they'd rather skip.)

magikarp99
06-17-2014, 02:35 PM
Well, the first 1:30 has a weird phase shift. And the frequency response begins dropping off at 3Khz, entirely dropping off at 7Khz. So, yeah, it is pretty awful.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-18-2014, 05:22 AM
does anyone remember "gish rough mixes"? (and is that of any interest?)
I don't remember this.

How about TheFutureEmbrace premaster (was that ever circulated in anything but mp3?)
here's the "gish rough mix" tape: http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=1723
would anyone still have the old files for this?

TFE premaster? ah yes, those mp3s, all of them with one or two seconds missing at the start or the end of the tracks. that's the one right? is it really a premaster, by the way? maybe the mp3 encoding made it "look" less compressed?

Shallowed
06-18-2014, 05:25 AM
I haven't heard either and would be very interested

Rider
06-18-2014, 05:59 AM
As far as I know to this day the copy of Sequence IV that is circulating that nearly everyone has, had all sorts of digital cleanup and fuckery done to it.

When I brought this up at some point in the past decade someone came forward and was going to circulate a clean copy of the original source but as far as I know that has never happened.

If you are going to do this I recommend not including Sequence IV unless you can get back to the original, not the fucked up one everyone has from the hub. The fucked up version needs to die in flames and I'm amazed it still has not been corrected because I started trying to fix this 13 years ago.

magikarp99
06-18-2014, 06:38 AM
TFE premaster? ah yes, those mp3s, all of them with one or two seconds missing at the start or the end of the tracks. that's the one right? is it really a premaster, by the way? maybe the mp3 encoding made it "look" less compressed?

<del>I am fairly confident this advanced promo is also is a pre-master.</del>
Disregard the below, it probably went through some normalisation process when ripped.

Yes, MP3 encoding can make things look less compressed but generally not this much.
One of the key things is that the average volume is 4dB lower, but it still peaks to -0dB, this is significant, as compression does not affect it quite this much.

In fact, decent comparisons can be made because the MP3 encoder version and settings are embedded in the MP3 itself.

By volume matching, and then re-encoding you can see the difference in the waveform clearly.

Here is the mastered version of A100 from the official release (red indicates clipping):
https://i.imgur.com/4C08wra.png

Here is the advanced promo:
https://i.imgur.com/XqU0Zeb.png

Volume matching the official release to the advanced promo gives the following:
https://i.imgur.com/bi81c2V.png

Encoding to MP3 with identical settings gives the following:
https://i.imgur.com/IsUveqH.png

Overlaying the waveform of the newly encoded MP3 onto the advanced promo. The magenta is the waveform of the advanced copy:
https://i.imgur.com/GJVNSTI.png

And for good measure, the official release encoded to MP3 with no volume adjustments:
https://i.imgur.com/uM7JN43.png

Cool As Ice Cream
06-18-2014, 06:53 AM
notice that the TFE "premaster" didn't necessarily come from a promo. i've got the watermarked promo, and that one definitely doesn't contain a premaster.

the TFE "premaster" appeared as a "scene" leak. mp3s only. if i remember it correctly, the files were called _bla, or something similar. that must be some indication about who leaked it?

if you want to check the watermarked TFE promo, i've got EAC rips of five different copies. (track 1 is missing. they added some weird copy protection, which made track 1 not readable.)
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/di5op0eapdugs/bc-tfe-watermarked (the number between "tfe-" and "-txx.flac" is the number that was on each watermarked cd-r.)

Cool As Ice Cream
06-18-2014, 07:01 AM
i'm not entirely convinced by your analysis, magickarper.
if anything, you're showing that mp3 encoding can really change what the audio file looks like. you lose that "blocked" look immediately.
what if there was a volume adjustment or normalisation before they encoded to mp3? then you'd have no information about that in the mp3 file, right? (you don't know how exactly the volume was reduced, or how much.)
maybe they did take the commercial release, put it through their ripping software, and the "premaster mp3s" is what came out of it? that doesn't seem entirely impossible, does it?

magikarp99
06-18-2014, 07:03 AM
notice that the TFE "premaster" didn't necessarily come from a promo. i've got the watermarked promo, and that one definitely doesn't contain a premaster.

the TFE "premaster" appeared as a "scene" leak. mp3s only. if i remember it correctly, the files were called _bla, or something similar. that must be some indication about who leaked it?
Ah, right. It is labelled as an advanced promo from whoever I downloaded it from.

It came with this image:
http://i.imgur.com/XOsbt5J.jpg (http://imgur.com/XOsbt5J)


if you want to check the watermarked TFE promo, i've got EAC rips of five different copies. (track 1 is missing. they added some weird copy protection, which made track 1 not readable.)
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/di5op0eapdugs/bc-tfe-watermarked (the number between "tfe-" and "-txx.flac" is the number that was on each watermarked cd-r.)

I'll take a look.

magikarp99
06-18-2014, 07:20 AM
i'm not entirely convinced by your analysis, magickarper.
if anything, you're showing that mp3 encoding can really change what the audio file looks like. you lose that "blocked" look immediately.
what if there was a volume adjustment or normalisation before they encoded to mp3? then you'd have no information about that in the mp3 file, right? (you don't know how exactly the volume was reduced, or how much.)
maybe they did take the commercial release, put it through their ripping software, and the "premaster mp3s" is what came out of it? that doesn't seem entirely impossible, does it?

You've convinced me otherwise. Disregard my analysis.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-18-2014, 07:22 AM
Ah, right. It is labelled as an advanced promo from whoever I downloaded it from.

It came with this image:

were these the _bla files? (i have not seem those together with a picture of the watermarked cd-r.)
if they indeed came from that cd, then it's not a premaster.
i believe the audio doesn't look identical to the commercial release (which might explain the difference between blue and pink, i guess), but it's still clipping.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-18-2014, 07:25 AM
You've convinced me otherwise. Disregard my analysis.

does this mean it's certainly not a premaster? those leaked mp3s, i mean. (i was just questioning it. i personally don't know.)
what if you listen to it? you have good ears, don't you?

magikarp99
06-18-2014, 07:31 AM
does this mean it's certainly not a premaster? those leaked mp3s, i mean. (i was just questioning it. i personally don't know.)
what if you listen to it? you have good ears, don't you?

You convinced me that my analysis wasn't enough to determine that it was. I'll find my IEMs and take a listen.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-18-2014, 07:34 AM
about waveforms and what compression can do to them:
i remember we made the same mistake with the zeitgeist watermarked cd-r (people were convinced this contained the pre-master of the album after seeing the waveforms of some mp3s off it - it does not, unfortunately), and when looking for a promo cd-r that contained the machina pre-master (i once thought i had found one promo with the machina pre-master, but was basing myself on wma files the owner had sent me, before making a lossless rip).

magikarp99
06-18-2014, 07:49 AM
Yeah. It is all archived here: http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=150622

magikarp99
06-18-2014, 08:24 AM
Something to note, is that while your watermarked editions seem to all run the same duration as the official release.

The bla mp3s do not, they run a little bit slow.

So that's another point towards this edition being different.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-18-2014, 08:50 AM
the bla mp3s also seem to be missing one or two seconds at the start or end of the tracks, if i remember it correctly.
maybe they used a watermarked cd-r as a source, but instead of ripping it, like a normal, non-copy-protected cd, they captured the audio somehow (e.g. play cd on computer and record from the soundcard), track per track? that could explain the incomplete tracks. it doesn't explain running a little bit slow. or does it?

magikarp99
06-18-2014, 09:21 AM
Well the tags indicate it was ripped with EAC. But I guess that may be inaccurate, or it may have been ripped from a copy.

The seconds missing from the start and end don't account for the difference in duration, but I guess if they captured the audio off the CD with an imprecise ADC or DAC involved then that may account for it. If that were the case it could also account for the change in dynamics.

I think I like this theory best so far. Partly because if this were a pre-master, I think it would be much more obvious.

magikarp99
06-18-2014, 10:34 AM
As far as I know to this day the copy of Sequence IV that is circulating that nearly everyone has, had all sorts of digital cleanup and fuckery done to it.

When I brought this up at some point in the past decade someone came forward and was going to circulate a clean copy of the original source but as far as I know that has never happened.

If you are going to do this I recommend not including Sequence IV unless you can get back to the original, not the fucked up one everyone has from the hub. The fucked up version needs to die in flames and I'm amazed it still has not been corrected because I started trying to fix this 13 years ago.
No kidding. It sounds awful. So many digital artifacts.

slunken
06-18-2014, 04:49 PM
Just wanted to chime in as seeding potential

magikarp99
06-19-2014, 03:03 PM
Okay, I dug around and found some of my older files.

I found the lower gen copy of MCIS Demos III without any of the "fixes". :)
I also found the original QAOS tape sides.

Right, here are FFPs of what I believe to be original releases. It would be good if someone would check these against their own.


Checksums removed, they were inaccurate.


Does anyone have the following?:
Reel Time Sessions Tree CDs (containing Reel Time Sessions, and original MCIS Demos III higher gen release)
Triple Tree CDs (containing Gravity Demos, and Friends and Enemies of Modern Music)

magikarp99
06-19-2014, 03:04 PM
It was originally leaked by the owner of the master DAT to a few CD-Rs via trade to some people. Then from there it sprung to ebay and eventually the shns. I already ripped the orignal traded CD-R and upped it to whatcd last year I think.

Edit:
WWWAAAAAIIIT I guess I can't remember if it was on ebay first, then the purchaser traded it out to a few people... Forget it.

Thank you! Will have to get that from What.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-19-2014, 04:25 PM
yeah, i believe adore demos originated from ebay. the cd-rs must be copies from the ebay cd.
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=125607
(also check out the amsp links.)

Cool As Ice Cream
06-19-2014, 04:29 PM
Does anyone have the following?:
Reel Time Sessions Tree CDs (containing Reel Time Sessions, and original MCIS Demos III higher gen release)
Triple Tree CDs (containing Gravity Demos, and Friends and Enemies of Modern Music)
i believe i do.

magikarp99
06-19-2014, 05:33 PM
yeah, i believe adore demos originated from ebay. the cd-rs must be copies from the ebay cd.
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=125607
(also check out the amsp links.)

Haha. That banter.

i believe i do.

Fresh rips with log files would be great.

magikarp99
06-19-2014, 06:23 PM
There is some good discussion on the various versions of different demos floating around in this thread: http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=55556&page=4

Information on the Sequence IV (scroll down): http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=167676
Pmack says it comes from Courtney Love. It seems he has a copy without an NR too.
http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost.php?p=3530380&postcount=9

Cool As Ice Cream
06-20-2014, 02:50 AM
Fresh rips with log files would be great.
ah, wait, no. i don't have the cds. i have the shn files that were shared on the hub and stuff.

magikarp99
06-20-2014, 07:19 AM
I update the list, let me know if anything is wrong. Bold means I have the best circulating source, bold and italics means someone in this thread has it.

Original list updated:
Adore Demos II: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Quiet And Other Songs: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Adore Demos I: CD-R on Ebay in 2000, bought and treed via CD-Rs
Gravity Demos: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Machina Acoustic Demos: Billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich -> whoever released it
Mashed Potatoes: < 10 CDs distributed by Billy. Eventually uploaded to the Hub in full as SHN; inferior partial copy from ANA circulates, owned by Simon Coyle
MCIS Demos I: RTS tree; (Billy's Home Demos bootleg is supposedly an inferior copy)
MCIS Demos II: Appeared on Ebay in 2000, circulates as ANA-L > DAT0 > CDR-0 > SHN
MCIS Demos III: ANA > DAT > CD-R (inferior version was part of RTS tree)
Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ANA > SHN??
Reel Time Sessions: STU>DDC-1>CDR as part of RTS tree
Sequence IV: Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > John Mulhausen (applied NR) > CD-R / SHN
Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > Dave Asselin DAT (uncirculated)
Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is an ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
MCIS Rough Mixes: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing

Additions to the list:
666 Tape: PRO > VID-2 > CD-R
Drown 8-Track Demo: SPRC
Nothing Ever Changes: Ana-L>CDR-M>Cool-Edit>CDR-M (Asselin)>CDR-2>SHN
Gish Basement Tape: On Pisces Iscariot reissue. Also on Pumpkin Seeds bootleg, did this circulate in any other form? Do we have a copy direct from the ANA?

What about the TSP demo tape? That was on SPRC earlier this year, somehow I missed that. How does the quality compare to bmaromar's DAT?

CrabbMan, is that 666 tape recording you have the one listed above?

If we can get RTS and Triple tree rips then we can guarantee good lineage on almost all remaining tapes.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-20-2014, 07:28 AM
margin
I update the list, let me know if anything is wrong. Bold means I have the best circulating source, bold and italics means someone in this thread has it.

Original list updated:
Adore Demos II: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Quiet And Other Songs: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Adore Demos I: CD-R on Ebay in 2000, bought and treed via CD-Rs
Gravity Demos: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Machina Acoustic Demos: Billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich -> whoever released it
Mashed Potatoes: < 10 CDs distributed by Billy. Eventually uploaded to the Hub in full as SHN; inferior partial copy from ANA circulates, owned by Simon Coyle
MCIS Demos I: RTS tree; (Billy's Home Demos bootleg is supposedly an inferior copy)
MCIS Demos II: Appeared on Ebay in 2000, circulates as ANA-L > DAT0 > CDR-0 > SHN
MCIS Demos III: ANA > DAT > CD-R (inferior version was part of RTS tree)
Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ANA > SHN??
Reel Time Sessions: STU>DDC-1>CDR as part of RTS tree
Sequence IV: Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > John Mulhausen (applied NR) > CD-R / SHN
Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > Dave Asselin DAT (uncirculated)
Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is a DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
MCIS Rough Mixes: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing

Additions to the list:
666 Tape: STU > VID > CD-R
Drown 8-Track Demo: SPRC
Nothing Ever Changes: Ana-L>CDR-M>Cool-Edit>CDR-M (Asselin)>CDR-2>SHN
Gish Basement Tape: On Pisces Iscariot reissue. Also on Pumpkin Seeds bootleg, did this circulate in any other form? Do we have a copy direct from the ANA?

What about the TSP demo tape? That was on SPRC earlier this year, somehow I missed that. How does the quality compare to bmaromar's DAT?

CrabbMan, is that 666 tape recording you have the one listed above?

If we can get RTS and Triple tree rips then we can guarantee good lineage on almost all remaining tapes.

CrabbMan
06-20-2014, 06:27 PM
CrabbMan, is that 666 tape recording you have the one listed above?


The txt that was included says: PRO >VID2 >CDR

What does everybody think about instead of labeling and grouping them by their traditional circulating names (ie Adore demos II or Friends & Enemies of Modern Music) we do so by their recording session? So FaEoMM would be labeled as Chicago Recording Company 1998-1999 and would not ******* tracks 10-14 which were tacked on to the tape.

And then there's the matter of all the tracks that were released in the re-issues. Does anyone have a problem with replacing the bootleg versions with the official releases? I don't know if people are against cleaned up versions in general, or just amateur noise reduction like (13). Just now listening to A/Ab/E/B/F#, I personally prefer the reissue version of that recording.

magikarp99
06-20-2014, 07:25 PM
The txt that was included says: PRO >VID2 >CDR
I think this is what I was referring to. Great.


What does everybody think about instead of labeling and grouping them by their traditional circulating names (ie Adore demos II or Friends & Enemies of Modern Music) we do so by their recording session? So FaEoMM would be labeled as Chicago Recording Company 1998-1999 and would not ******* tracks 10-14 which were tacked on to the tape.


I think content should be grouped by the tapes / source they are from. Which is essentially how they currently are. I would stick with current community naming for these tapes as well so as not to confuse things even more. Perhaps we could incIude a text file giving the above information.


And then there's the matter of all the tracks that were released in the re-issues. Does anyone have a problem with replacing the bootleg versions with the official releases? I don't know if people are against cleaned up versions in general, or just amateur noise reduction like (13). Just now listening to A/Ab/E/B/F#, I personally prefer the reissue version of that recording.
We shouldn't incIude versions which are commercially available, e.g. part of reissues. These are already readily available through other means, including actually buying it. They aren't falling out of circulation. I would think SPRC editions are an exception as these are not available for purchase.

I think there is value in having the original versions of the tapes.

Shallowed
06-20-2014, 09:04 PM
It would go against the point of bootlegging these recordings if officially released reissue versions were spliced into the original bootleg source. If I'm listening to Gravity Demos for instance, I'd want to hear it as it sounds on that tape, not the cleaned up officially released version, which is readily available anyway.

On that note, I know there is this

TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is a DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009

But how about including rips of the original tapes? The consensus is that this is the "best version", but it's still not the same source as those original tapes.

magikarp99
06-21-2014, 05:19 AM
On that note, I know there is this

TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is a DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009


But how about including rips of the original tapes? The consensus is that this is the "best version", but it's still not the same source as those original tapes.

Sure, in that case, what we are looking for is:

Triple Tree CDs
RTS Tree CDs
TSP Demo Tape Rip
Moon Demo Tape Rip - I have the one on What, is this the best?
Gish Basement Tape Rip - Does any ANA rip circulate?
Drown Demo Tape - (is this the best source?) promo cassette>ANAx>CDRx>remaster>CDR2>WAV>FLAC

Should we add in the Ignoffo tape, The Marked tapes, Zwan rough mixes and Spun?

CrabbMan
06-21-2014, 08:34 PM
I think content should be grouped by the tapes / source they are from. Which is essentially how they currently are. I would stick with current community naming for these tapes as well so as not to confuse things even more. Perhaps we could incIude a text file giving the above information.


Okay, I suppose upon reflection I mostly agree with keeping the original groupings, especially for the cohesive discs. And then keep most of the original community names, especially the descriptive ones. Something like "Adore Demos II" works fine, but maybe add something more descriptive to the cryptic titles, like "Sequence IV (MCIS Early Mix)" or "Sacred + Profane Tour Compilation" rather than Triple Tree.



We shouldn't incIude versions which are commercially available, e.g. part of reissues. These are already readily available through other means, including actually buying it. They aren't falling out of circulation. I would think SPRC editions are an exception as these are not available for purchase.

Ok, so don't splice the existing versions with cleaner versions from an official release? I guess I can agree with that. But maybe don't exclude something because it also exists on a official release. It's so annoying when a track has been removed because it makes an appearance on some official compilation or whatnot.

I think there is value in having the original versions of the tapes.

I'm not certain that I get what you're saying, but personally I'm more concerned with preserving and sharing the Smashing Pumpkins recording history than the Smashing Pumpkins trading community history.

It would go against the point of bootlegging these recordings if officially released reissue versions were spliced into the original bootleg source. If I'm listening to Gravity Demos for instance, I'd want to hear it as it sounds on that tape, not the cleaned up officially released version, which is readily available anyway.

I guess I'm not sure I understand what you see the point of bootlegging to be. I thought it was to put material into circulation that wasn't otherwise available. If it's out there, in a better version, it's lost its raison d'Ítre.


TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is a DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009

But how about including rips of the original tapes? The consensus is that this is the "best version", but it's still not the same source as those original tapes.

If it's the same recording, then it goes back to the same original source. Just because one particular lineage of that recording was part of a group of tapes that the band sold oh so many years ago doesn't make it any better. That's just sentimentality.


Should we add in the Ignoffo tape, The Marked tapes, Zwan rough mixes and Spun?

The Marked tapes, Zwan? Yes. Anything that is of interest to current and potentially new Billy Corgan fans and is otherwise hard to find.

The Ignoffo tape? No, at least not in its orginal form. And that gets to the heart of I think my main disagreement with you guys on some stuff. back again to that no record 2x rule. I'd really prefer some consolidation by recording session. I mean, I don't feel the need to have 4 versions of the same recording because it was released on Mashed Potatoes, the Moon Demo tape, Ignoffo tape and the Reel Time Sessions.

Now, I'm not totally without sentiment. I've been around here for a while. I remember being super stoked when an mp3 snippet of For Martha came onto netphoria from a radio promo for their opening for the Stones at the Texas Motor Speedway. And every time there was a new leak of an old recording, whether for the first time or a major upgrade, it was exciting and momentous. But over the years it's created a somewhat chaotic pool of duplicate tracks from varying lineages.

Looking at the list we have, it is for the most part pretty well organized by recording session as is. But I am happy to do away with lower quality redundant tracks rather than keeping them in circulation just because they were part of a lineage that was special to the community at one time. I would have no problem blowing up the Ignoffo Tape, Mashed Potatoes, Moon Demo--of course keeping anything that isn't available elsewhere.

So, keeping intact or consolidating full recording sessions with the best available tracks, and a mega torrent collecting everything else that doesn't have a proper home.

If I'm listening to Gravity Demos for instance, I'd want to hear it as it sounds on that tape, not the cleaned up officially released version, which is readily available anyway.

I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but that's not my preference. I don't have a sentimentality for tape hiss (let me guess, you prefer vinyl because you enjoy the pops and crackles? j/k I'm teasing). I'd like to listen to all the Gravity tracks together, each one being from the best source available, rather than the incomplete selection of tracks that happened to fit on the tape that Billy put out into circulation in the year 2000. [Perhaps the best solution is just for me to create my own playlist that draws from the different sources. ;) ]

Anyway, I get the sense that this is not the consensus of the community here, but I at least wanted to elaborate on my particular 'vision' or whatever. I'll gladly participate in helping create the torrents and seeding with whatever the group decides to do.

This, of course, wouldn't even be a discussion if Billy would go ahead and OK the creation of a digital Pumpkins archive, containing all of Billy's collection of his bands' recordings.

magikarp99
06-22-2014, 05:01 AM
Everything has always been distributed by its source. If you want to mix sources to form entire recording sessions then I feel that is a compilation.

You don't like it when you download something from ZOMB and it's missing a track right? If we distribute bootlegs spliced together, to many people this is the same thing.

As for naming, I never intended to suggest that we distribute anything as Triple Tree or RTS Tree. I am only mentioning these as it stems back the original distribution of the tapes.

One of the appealing things about demos is how raw they are. Mastered versions are nice, but may be altered beyond just doing a high quality transfer. For this reason, there would still be appeal in having what is currently circulating, even if Billy suddenly released mastered tracks of the entire pumpkins archive. Let's say we splice mastered and raw tracks together to create complete sessions, then there would be inconsistencies in frequency response and noise which would be distracting.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-22-2014, 06:29 AM
Ok, so don't splice the existing versions with cleaner versions from an official release? I guess I can agree with that. But maybe don't exclude something because it also exists on a official release. It's so annoying when a track has been removed because it makes an appearance on some official compilation or whatnot.
i thought the whole point of setting up these torrents was to avoid the excluded tracks. just share the sets of demos as they originally appeared, without removing any "officially released" tracks.

grouping by recording session: i vote no.
replacing single tracks by an upgrade from a different source: i vote no too.

magikarp99
06-22-2014, 06:46 AM
In this case, shall we incIude the Ignoffo tape then?

Cool As Ice Cream
06-22-2014, 07:19 AM
sure, why not?

redbull
06-22-2014, 01:24 PM
We should probably try and use/compare against original releases to make sure they are intact. So how was everything released? I believe I have the original releases for everything in bold.


Adore Demos II: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Quiet And Other Songs: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Adore Demos I: Bought off Ebay in 2000, how was this distributed?
Gravity Demos: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Machina Acoustic Demos: Billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich -> whoever released it
Mashed Potatoes: CDs distributed by Billy, then uploaded
MCIS Demos I: From a commerical bootleg????
MCIS Demos II: Appeared on Ebay in 2000
MCIS Demos III: ???? Multiple transfers of this circulate, originally treed with Reel Time Sessions?
Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ???? analogue cassette source
Reel Time Sessions: ????
Sequence IV: ????
Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is a DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
MCIS Rough Mixes: DAT from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing

Is that 666 audio a separate transfer to the DVD?

to clarify the tapes from bmaromar are cassettes -- in house virgin promos, but still cassettes

CrabbMan
06-22-2014, 04:01 PM
Is there anything on the Ignoffo Tape that isn't elsewhere?

spfreaks has the source listing as:
1-9 Reel Time Studio's II Summer '89.
10 Billy Corgan's father Home Studio Sept. '88.
11 Schwa Productions Dec. '88.
12 Billy Corgan's father Home Studio Sept. '88 (cut at ?:??).
13-18 live Cabaret Metro, Chicago 1988/10/05
19 Reel Time Studio's II Summer '89.
20 live Last Exit, Chicago 1988/11/20.
21 Reel Time Studios I Nov. '88.


I grabbed my discs, but turns out those CD-Rs really don't last all that long....

magikarp99
06-22-2014, 06:49 PM
to clarify the tapes from bmaromar are cassettes -- in house virgin promos, but still cassettes

Oh right, thanks. I don't know why I thought they were DATs :/

Shallowed
06-23-2014, 04:45 AM
Crabbman, you're probably in a minority of people who would want to compile the "best versions" of all available recordings. If they're circulating in their original, untampered forms, you and anyone else are free to arrange them on your own computer however you see fit.

It has nothing to do with sentimentality (for me, at least) and more to do with inclusiveness and completeness.

CrabbMan
06-23-2014, 06:05 AM
Yeah, I see that the interest seems to be in preserving things how they were released to the community, so we'll go with that. Does this mean that we'd inclūd the Ignoffo Tape, even if it doesn't have anything that isn't elsewhere (still an open question to me).

Another thought I'm having is to have a specific directory structure that each of these releases having its own folder, such that we could have a torrent file for each one, but also a single larger torrent that references the entire collection. And theoretically you could add or replace any content and just update the main torrent. I wouldn't foresee that happening often, but at least we could be flexible for when that holy grail finally leaks.

Is there actually any holy grail still out there? Or was everything known eventually leaked out?

Cool As Ice Cream
06-23-2014, 06:53 AM
i don't see the advantage of one big torrent.

is there nothing unique on the ignoffo tape?
what about the three tracks that were added as bonus? "i fall" isn't available anywhere else, is it? or would these not be included, as they're not actually on that tape?

CrabbMan
06-23-2014, 07:57 AM
The advantage of one big torrent is that it's easy for anyone who wants it all. Or easy for anyone that wants just some. When I want an album from a band, I often download the torrent for their discography and just select the folder(s) that i want. But the nice thing is it doesn't have to be either or. We can also have torrent files for the individual releases, as long as you keep the directory structure as is.

That way, people can search for an individual release and find it. Or download the Smashing Pumpkins Demos Megatorrent.

But yeah, things like those extra tracks on the Ignoffo tape; I wouldn't want to download the whole disc just to get a track. That, or the extras on FaEoMM, PI+friends, etc that make me want to have a collection of one-offs that don't belong, or even better a collection of all the tracks from WPC Sr. home studios. But really, why is it more appropriate for a track like "I Fall" to be included as a bonus on the Ignoffo tape instead of a bonus on Nothing Ever Changes? I'm not saying everything needs to be upended, but is there not room to do a little housekeeping to put some minor stuff in order?

But I guess that's another project...

And now that I've started looking, what do we have of this session: http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=2 ?

Cool As Ice Cream
06-23-2014, 08:01 AM
And now that I've started looking, what do we have of this session: http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=2 ?

i guess only "i fall".

magikarp99
06-23-2014, 08:32 AM
Do what What.CD does. For those who want everything, provide a ZIP file of all the torrents. If you don't want to add each torrent one by one, most torrent clients these days allow you to add entire directories of torrents at once.

If you want to download a single track from any one torrent, you can instruct your torrent client to only download the files you want from a torrent. No need to download the entire Ignoffo tape if you only want one track. Of course, this isn't generally encouraged, as the health of the torrent is impacted if people pick and choose what they want.

magikarp99
06-23-2014, 08:38 AM
So what is circulating for the Spun soundtrack? We have the leaked M4As. Did we ever get anything better?

It looks like I'm missing 4 of the M4As for some reason.

Can someone upload these?

Zwan - Jesus, I (Spun version)
Zwan - Mary Star of the Sea (Spun version)
Billy Corgan - Love is a Battlefield
Billy Corgan - Wasting Time

magikarp99
06-23-2014, 08:39 AM
Is there actually any holy grail still out there? Or was everything known eventually leaked out?
There's still a lot unreleased out there.

magikarp99
06-23-2014, 11:44 AM
to clarify the tapes from bmaromar are cassettes -- in house virgin promos, but still cassettes

Did you ever release 24-bit copies of these?

Cool As Ice Cream
06-24-2014, 05:04 AM
on the ignoffo tape and other old tapes:
88xxxx 'Ignoffo'-tape aka Gish/881005 - Some comments by Sven Schlijper

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This seems to be a direct rip from one of numerous tapes Billy Corgan made back in 88-90 for his friends, or people in the music business in Chicago. There are at least a few copies of tapes like this floating around.

Verified have been:
- Gish/881005 [Ignoffo]
- Gish/Moon
- 'untitled' promo tape (without sleeve) [auctioned on eBay a while ago]
- Mike Potential's DAT which spawned the RTS-tree

Roughly these tapes follow the same pattern: a number of tracks from the electric RTS session, plus sometimes a few fillers. Tapes Corgan used were mostly 90 min (or longer) Maxell XLII-S [Japan], or brandless clear case tapes with white hand written labels affixed - in the case of the promotional tapes. Mike Potential's DAT has the full Reel Time sessions.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GISH
Interesting to see: the RTS songs on these tapes seem to be titled 'Gish' very early on. It seems correct to date these tapes to 1989, maybe early 1990, but i'd go for 89. Thus, these songs were even then going under the banner of 'Gish' already.

On the 'Gish/Moon' tape the 'Gish' part seems to consist of:
I Am One
Bury Me
Daydream
Not Worth Asking
Honeyspider
Rhinoceros
Snap
Love
c'Mon
East
Since the b-side is titled 'Moon' and follows the tracklisting for the self-released demotape.
On 'Ignoffo' we find exactly the same songs, in identical running order.
The 1989-1990 demo promo 'Gish Basement Tape' cuts this list to only the first 5 songs.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REEL TIME
All tapes, apart from Mike Potential's re-sequenced alphabetical one, use the same running order for most of the RTS songs. Therefore we might conclude this sequence is the desired order for these songs. On three tapes the first 10/11 songs appear in the exact same order, are from the same source and are cut exactly the same. It seems Corgan had a [master?]-tape which he kept on using, which already included this format. It might be a long shot to conclude this order is also the order in which the Reel Time Session songs were recorded. It seems rather accurate though to conlcude the band's preferred order for these songs is reflected in the running order we find on these homemade tapes. 'Cinnamon Girl' seems to have been used as a filler rather than a song reflecting the 'Gish'batch of songs, since sometimes it was present, sometimes it was left off.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MOON
A few songs from the same session pop up on various other locations. Such as the 'Moon' demo tape and 'Gish/Moon' tape.

Honeyspider [II]
With You
Egg
Rhinoceros [organ solo version]
Bye June

Stars Fall In
Daughter
Daydream
Psychodelic

As for the running order of these songs, on various sources, this stays identical. With again the exception of Mike Potential's DAT these songs seem to be presented in the band's desired format on the 'Moon' sequence. When songs pop up on other locations than the 'release version' of 'Moon' the same sequence is used.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

B-SIDE FILLER
Corgan used to pack his tapes with music. Often cutting songs at the end of the tape-sides. 'Cinnamon Girl' is one of the assumed filler tracks, mostly present on side A. On the b-side of these tapes we find two different recordings.
1) 881005
2) 'Moon'songs and various filler tracks

@ 1):
The recording of 881005 which had been floating around for a long time now was of a very high generation. Billy's copy was of an early generation, but with some defects. For CR-05 professional cleaning up and remastering was done. Still, there are two glitches in N+E.
There is a second source for this show. It's a splice between two available audience tapes; from the same source [?], compiling the complete show. This low gen version does not have the warble/glitch Corgan's master for CR-05 has.

So basically there are two good versions of 881005 out there. One from CR-05 which sounds great, because of the professional work that has been done on the recording. And another spliced source, without the use of CR-05 and without the glitches.

On Corgan's homemade tape an incomplete version of 881005 is found.

From 881005 [BC's CR-05 tape?]:

There It Goes
She
My Eternity
Bleed
Spiteface

On 'Ignoffo'aka 'Gish/881005' another Nothing & Everything is used. This is the version which was used in the RTS tree. I believe date&location for this recording are still unknown. But we can say for sure it's NOT the 881005 version. So in 1989, when compiling these homemade tapes Corgan left Nothing & Everything off the tapes and replaced it with another version. However, on CR-05 he did use his own, defective, version of the song.


@ 2):
Various filler tracks were used by BC.

On 'Ignoffo'aka 'Gish/881005' we find:
- Jennifer Ever [acoustic/click track version] > also used on the RTS tree
- Under Your Spell [1988 studio demo] > also found on Mashed Potatoes
- There It Goes [1988 studio demo] > also found on Mashed Potatoes. The Ignoffo version is cut as per tape end, on MP it's the full song
- Cinnamon Girl [Reel Time session] > present on the RTS tree
- Time Has Come Today [881120, Last Exit, Chicago, IL] > audience recording
- My Dahlia [1989 studio demo] > also found on Mashed Potatoes, NOT the Light Into Dark version

On 'Gish/Moon' we find:
- Cinnamon Girl [RTS]
- I Fall [very early demo]
- Times Has Come Today [881120]

I Fall is being distributed now as a demo from 1988. This could very well be the case. However, I clearly remember Dave Asselin's assertion Corgan has told him James and he recorded I Fall in late 1987 in his father's studio, using a drummachine. Corgan produced this from the top of his head. Whatever you might think of this, still, Asselin got I Fall the day before we went to the listening party for MACHINA where Corgan gave him 880810 Avalon, with I Fall [live]. They discussed the song then and that's where Corgan came up with the date of 1987. The song was listed in Asselin's bootlist as xx.xx.87. Maybe there is a possibility someone can shed some light on this issue. Personally I tink a recording in 1987 isn't that far off. The lone known source for this song is a handwritten homemade Corgan tape entitled 'Gish/Moon', to be dated 1989.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

25 TRACKS O'PUMPKINS AKA PSYCHO VIDEO
Some filler tracks from the Ignoffo-torrent were taken from this 'infamous' video of various live performances around 88-89. Full audio of this video has been spread to some extent, the video itself has yet to spread into wider circulation, I believe.

From this video tape the following audio is currently in wide circulation:
- My Dahlia [reahearsel] > found on Ignoffo torrent
- The Crystal Ship [The Doors cover] > found on Ignoffo torrent
- She [live] > unknown location&date, found on the 3 Songs O'Rarities leak
- My Eternity [live 88119, PCA] > found on the 3 Songs O'Rarities leak

Apprently Corgan made this video tape for an early fan/girlfriend. The full tracklisting for this video in<check>cludes:

01 Venus in Furs
02 Rhinoceros
03 East
04 I Am One
05 My Dahlia [rehearsel]
06 She
07 I'm Free [The Who cover]
08 Oui Henri [cut]
09 Nothing & Everything
10 My Eternity [PCA]
11 The Crystal Ship [The Doors cover]
12 Sun
13 Spiteface
14 I Am My End
15 Rhinoceros
16 Ball & Chain [James Iha composition?!]
17 Bury Me
18 Try ot Try
19 Salt
20 Lie I Lie
21 Razor
22 Love
23 C'Mon [fade-out]
24 a very short soundcheck snippet
25 Jennifer Ever

tracks 14~23 are from 891031, Metro, Chicago, IL [14-18 Set 1/19-23 Set 2]

At the after show party @ Metro after the last performance, this video was shown, amongst others on a big screen onstage. Both audio and video quality are quite bad. Still, we'd you expect from a homedubbed video from 1989?

Both video and full audio have still to surface on greater scale.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OTHER NON-RTS SONGS
The 'Ignoffo' tape also in<uvw>cludes three songs not from RTS, or 25 O'Pumpkins video.

This Jennifer Ever seems to be exclusive to the 'Ignoffo' tape. Source is identical to the one used in the RTS tree; the 'Ignoffo' tape that is.

Both Under Your Spell and There It Goes are studio demo's. These versions did appear on Mashed Potatoes. Datewise I'd conclude we are looking for a session in 1988. Possibly Corgan Sr.'s home recording studio. SPFC.org lists a session which might have included a drummachine in 1988.

However Under Your Spell clearly uses a live drummer. I Fall and There It Goes share some similar sounds and both use a drummachine. So now we have Corgan's claim to 1987 for I Fall and There It Goes studio w/ drummachine [?], plus Under Your Spell with live drumming. Not from the same session, this might make Under Your Spell a demorecording from around mid-88 with Jimmy in the band and There It Goes from early-88. Possibly recorded with I Fall, which would not match up to Corgan's assertion of the date of 1987. Some confusion here...

CrabbMan
06-24-2014, 03:13 PM
Good read. Where's this from? It doesn't appear to exist elsewhere on the internet. Though according to LinkedIn this Sven guy was at one point the webmaster for TheSmashingPumpkins.com?

Cool As Ice Cream
06-24-2014, 03:19 PM
he was?
i think he wrote one or two articles for sp.com when they were letting people write content (somewhere between 2007 and now). i didn't think he was ever the webmaster.

i don't know where it's from. found it on netphoria.

i guess he just did some proper research and comparing after the ignoffo tape came out.
if i'm not mistaken, he's got quite a lot of old tapes. i even believe he once found a tape that appeared to be the only remaining source of one or more songs (i fall?), and he gave it back to bc.
that's just my memory talking though. not necessarily true...

CrabbMan
06-24-2014, 04:23 PM
I guess he was just a "web editor" Webredacteur

magikarp99
06-24-2014, 05:39 PM
All that content is from the original release of the Ignoffo Tape on The Traders Den.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=428&page=5

Rider
06-24-2014, 07:34 PM
All that content is from the original release of the Ignoffo Tape on The Traders Den.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=428&page=5

Fucking hell that brings back memories.

marrs-guitar
06-24-2014, 09:18 PM
This is the best Moon Demo source
http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/details.php?id=46746

The bmaromar source but speed corrected

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 05:50 AM
off topic, but now that we're talking ignoffo tape, spfreaks did a little interview with mark ignoffo recently: http://spfreaks.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/mark-ignoffo-talks-smashing-pumpkins/

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 06:05 AM
This is the best Moon Demo source
http://zombtracker.the-zomb.com/details.php?id=46746

The bmaromar source but speed corrected

Thanks. I think we are looking for rips of the official release in addition to this, as per Shallowed's suggestion.

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 06:07 AM
off topic, but now that we're talking ignoffo tape, spfreaks did a little interview with mark ignoffo recently: http://spfreaks.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/mark-ignoffo-talks-smashing-pumpkins/

Interesting read.

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 06:15 AM
ah, wait, no. i don't have the cds. i have the shn files that were shared on the hub and stuff.

Starseed indicated that he thinks that SHNs shared on the hub were used to burn CDs for the RTS tree. I don't know if these are the same as what you have. I also have SHNs but the lineage in the info files are awful/non-existent.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 12:50 PM
del

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 12:57 PM
del

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 01:39 PM
info files, for what it's worth.
3 Songs O' Rarities
Vid-?>CDR-?>WAV>FLAC

01 - My Eternity (1988.xx.xx) <-- Possible studio demo
02 - She (unknown)
03 - My Dahlia (rehearsal) <-- Apparently from 1988

notes: Ripped from a CD that I had laying around. Apparently, these are sourced from a video called 25 songs o' pumpkins.
In My Dahlia, you can hear billy say "Where's Ron?" Possibly Ron Roesing?????
Enjoy it!
PRO >VID2 >CDR

70m

3-2/3-95 Chicago, IL

1) Mellon Collie + The Infinite Sadness
2) The Viper
3) -funky jam-
4) Tribute To Johnny
5) Porcelina Of The Vast Oceans
6) Rachel/XYU
7) Thru The Eyes Of Ruby (w/Billy bullshiting lyrics)
8) V-8
9) Rachel/XYU
10) The Black Rider>Die
11) USA
12) Zero
13) -blank-
14) The Boy
15) -talking-
16) -joke song-
17) -tuning/messing around-
18) -talking-
19) Zero (jokey blues version - "the zero strut")
20) -drum fixing- Where Boys Fear To Tread (tease)
21) -more drums-
22) USA
23) Cupid De Locke
24) USA
25) -talking-
26) -talking-
27) -talking-
28) Zero
29) -talking-
30) Zero
31) Zero
32) -talking-
33) -talking-
34) -talking - The Captain & Tenille, the government's experimentation with sound, and Flood's american slang.

Notes: Audio from a video shot by an MTV camera during the initial recording run-throughs
of MCIS with Flood over 2 days. From what i've heard the camera man was fired and took the tapes
he shot with them, hence this got out. Testing out the practice space, mostly jamming and run-throughs.
Recording portions of Zero so Flood can see how the room sounds. Quite neat...to me anyway.

Flaws: Pops and static from video occasionally.
title: adore demos
cds: 1
length: 42 min
quality: 10

tracks of this copy:

01: the other side (for martha instrumental)
02: chewing gum
03: the tale of dusty and pistol pete
04: annie dog
05: once in a while
06: do you close your eyes
07: my mistake
08: i need you around (blissed and gone)
09: batman 1 (the end is the beginning is the end)
10: batman 2 (the beginning is the end is the beginning)

A collection of Adore-era demos, which first popped up on ebay in late Jan/early Feb 2000.
Track 1 is labeled 'The Other Side'.
Track 4 is the same as the album version.
Track 8 is labeled 'I Need You Around'.
Tracks 9 and 10 are labeled 'Batman take 1' and 'Batman take 2'.

info (c) by spfc.org
The Smashing Pumpkins
Adore B-sides

SIDE ONE (TATAAA)
01 Lover
02 Let Me Give The World To You
03 Because You Are
04 Satellites
05 Without You
06 Joy
07 Blissed And Gone
08 Saturnine
09 Cross [cut]

SIDE TWO (UAG)
01 Winterlong
02 Soot And Stars
03 Chewing Gum
04 Do You Close Your Eyes
05 My Mistake
06 Jersey Shore
07 Valentine
08 Waiting [cut]

PAu-1-699-154 05-01-2004 05:46 AM
Some songs no one (to my knowledge) knows about:

Satellites
Without You
Joy
Cross (not the one on the SPFC)
Jersey Shore
Valentine



Satellites
---------------
Me and her
We get around
Never see much
Staring hard
Into the ground
Electricity for love

You know it's the end of all
You know this is the end
It's what you've been waiting for
Like a long lost friend
Attached by satellites
Attached by satellites
Attached by satellites
It's a long way down

You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven

Me and her
Get around
We always rock the bus
Each a tube inside the ground
Electricity for love

You know this is the end
You know it's the end
It's what you've been waiting for
Like a long lost friend
Attached by satellites
Attached by satellites
Attached by satellites
Satellites
It's a long way down

You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven
You're an angel
I don't wanna go to heaven


Without You
------------------
We're tamed to be
The bumble bee
We're tamed to please
Our deep blue seas
The gin wheeze of everything

Without you
Within you
Beside you
Fell into
A bad dream
Without you
Without you

Let's aim to see
The deep blue sky
Let's aim to squeeze
The last drops out of life

Without you
Within you
Beside you
Fell into
The worst dream
Without you
Without you


Joy
-----------
I feel joy
I feel just
Like a boy
And now I
PLay with my toys

Nothing's really changed
I don't feel sad
you know I
Don't feel mad for my age
I'm happy just being

Someone just like me
In a way you will be
Any way in the world throws me down now
Now, world throws me right on down
and the world spills me right on down
world drains me right on down and

I feel joy
I feel just
Like a boy
And now I
Play with my noise
Nothing's really changed

I feel joy
I feel such
Happy joy
As a child I
Owned the noise
Nothing's smashing down

Happy just to be alive
Happy just to survive
Blows the tragedy down
World blows me right on down
World drains me right on down
World spills me right on down
And
Right on down and


Cross (yet another Cross...heh)
---------------------------------

Climb a cross
A sea-filled cross
Climb above
The still water

Desperate to
Seek to way
Earn your chance
With golden harvest

Find my hand pressing in
Meant no feeling in
Just the distance calling
It's distance calling
It's distance calling

There is no wanting
There's no way across
There is no wanting and can't go on
In a world you'd understand
This is your moment
In a world of being
Shoulda been dead, left for dead
This distance calling
This distance calling
This distance calling

(cuts off early)


Jersey Shore
----------------

On the Jersey shore
Spend all our dimes
I was getting change
Back of my mind

Shooting blanks
In Jerseytown
We tunnelled in
Manhattan-bound

What can we do?
There's life here for me
With a sweet young thing
And a cool, cool breeze

To the smokestack chime
We carry forth
Cinder child
And nights we forced

They are saints hovering
The last soul is carried
Let him go on a riverbed
God rest your soul
God rest this town

What shall we do?
There's life yet for me
With a sweet young thing
And a cool, cool breeze
Say a prayer for me

In the pinball din
Done with glow
Dream the Jersey shore
We kiss in here

I'm the Jersey shore
It's where I died
Hat in hand
My eyes to the sky


Valentine
---------------

Let the horses run
You're deserting me
Catch the thread-bare strains
Of departing trains
Bound for the last goodbyes
Yet thought you'd think you'd know

You're sure you did your care
She was always there
For you to kick around
But now she's let you down
Now she's gone to stay
With the frost and pray
If God could hear her prayers
Would he care?

Valentine, heart of mine
Come and ease my worried mind
It's plain to see
I'm not so free
Valentine, heart of mine

And from a window
You spy her ghost
Laughing ground
And taking notes

It seemed to so easy
To put it down
And leave the wreckage
For someone else

Valentine, heart of mine
Take this blood
This broken vine
It's plain to see
I ain't so free
Valentine, heart of mine

You smell of hair
Everywhere you go
You see her lips
Where you're leaving notes

Oh, Valentine
She's never 'round
Leaves you cold to
Have and hold

Valentine, heart of mine
Come and ease my worried mind
It's plain to see
I'm not so free
Valentine, heart of mine.
Smashing Pumpkins
Billy's Gravity Demos

(non-commercial)

Disc 1:

01. Jellybelly
02. Ugly (Beautiful One)
03. Bullet with Butterfly Wings (w/ raw/early vox)
04. Weeping Willowly (No Escape)
05. To Forgive (To Forgive For Nothing Less)
06. Blast
07. Mouths of Babes (Descendo)
08. Pennies (And I Stumbled Onto You)
09. Dizzle
10. A/Ab/E/B/F#
11. Rings
12. So So Pretty (James' Complex Song)
13. With Longing
14. Love (Straight Ab)
15. Set the Ray to Jerry

Disc 2:

01. Galapogos (The Innocents)
02. Speed (A Drone)
03. Lucky Lad (Busy Downtune Bb/G)
04. Jackboot
05. New Wave A to G
06. A/B/G Drop A
07. Marquis in Spades (Glamey Glamay)
08. Walking Country
09. Tonight, Tonight
10. The Groover
11. Germans in Leather Pants (New Wave Echo)
12. Millieu (Pretty Drop A)
13. E-drone E/C#/A
14. The Aeroplane Flies High (Disconnected)

Label: (none)
ID: -
Track info: Disc 1:
Tracks 1-15: 1994 - Gravity Studios - studio, electric
Disc 2:
Tracks 1-14: 1994 - Gravity Studios - studio, electric
All tracks electric & instrumental, except Bullet with Butterfly Wings.

From a 100m cassette, given by BC to an online fan in April 2000 with instructions to "circulate these". Originally, it was supposed to be a 90m cassette with more recent material, but he screwed up the tape somehow, & dug this one out instead.
01. Glass' Theme
02. The Everlasting Gaze (Disco King)
03. Dross
04. Blue Skies Bring Tears (Arising! version)
05. If There Is a God
06. Le Deux Machina (Mike Garson version)
07. Heavy Metal Machine (Version I)
08. Here's to the Atom Bomb (cut)
09. Real Love
10. Money (That's What I Want) [Strong]
11. X.Y.U.
12. Once Upon a Time
13. Crestfallen
14. (untitled SD-era instr) (cut)




Label: (none)
ID: -
Track info: Tracks 1-9: Nov 1998 - Oct 1999 - Chicago Recording Company - studio, electric
Tracks 10-11: 1998/10/31 - Dodger Stadium; Los Angeles, CA, US - soundboard, electric
Tracks 12-14: (unknown) - studio demos

Length: ~62:00


http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/boot.html?boot_id=165



BONUSTRACK: Black Oblivion...
The Smashing Pumpkins
xx-xx-88 "The Ignoffo Tape"

Source: STU>ANA-2>DATM
Conversion: Technics tape deck>DAT>DAT2WAV
Encode: wav's>FLAC

**************************************************
THIS SHOW IS NOT TO BE MP3-ENCODED
**************************************************

Disc 1
01. I Am One (4:19)
02. Bury Me (4:14)
03. Daydream (1:53)
04. Not Worth Asking (4:00)
05. Honeyspider (2:25)
06. Rhinoceros (5:25)
07. Snap (3:32)
08. Love (3:35)
09. C'mon (4:54)
10. Under Your Spell (3:56)
11. Jennifer Ever [Click Track] (3:32)
12. There It Goes [Cut] (4:23)

Disc 2:
01. There It Goes (5:36)
02. She (3:52)
03. My Eternity (5:55)
04. Oui Henri (5:07)
05. Spiteface (4:26)
06. Nothing and Everything (6:27)
07. Cinnamon Girl (2:37)
08. Time Has Come Today (4:05)
09. My Dahlia (3:41)
BONUS FILLER:
10. My Dahlia [Rehearsal] (4:17)
11. The Crystal Ship (2:47)
12. I Fall (5:58)

Notes:

D1:
T12: Cut as per master

D2:
T1-3,5-6: 10/05/88 - Metro; Chicago, IL, US (slight analog noise in T1)
T4:11/23/88 - Metro; Chicago, IL, US [AUD>Reel2Reel>ANA-1>DAT-M]
T7,9: 1989 - Reel Time Studios
T8: 11/20/88 Last Exit, Chicago, IL [AUD>Reel2Reel>ANA-1>DAT-M]
T10-11: From "The Psycho Tape," an unseeded compilation of early Pumpkins material. Consider this a tease.
T12: 1988: Billy's Father's Home Studio [STU>ANA-2>FLAC]
* note how d2t05 isn't "oui henri", it is "bleed". but this is how it was originally shared. (the file is also called "oui henri".)

SMASHING PUMPKINS
1993
Kitty Kat (original mix)
Studio
Virgin promo cassette > CDR > EAC > Wav > Flac

Set list:

1. Kitty Kat (Original Mix) 4:30

This song was originally intended to be on the Pumpkins' 1993 album Siamese Dream, but it was pulled at the last minute. This song comes from a promo cassette distributed before the album's release. The mix is different from the later release of the song under the title "Hello Kitty Kat" on the "Today" single; the vocals are not distorted on this version.

The actual title of the song on the promo cassette was "Kitty Kat".

I received this in a trade back in 1995 from a guy who owned the cassette. Unfortunately, his cassette had become partially demagnetized, so the first 1:30 of the song suffers from an annoying whooshing/phasing. I have never found anyone with another copy of this, so as annoying as that "whooshing" may be, it's the best available copy.


************************************************** **
Feel free to encode this to MP3, upload to Porntube,
sing it in the shower, whatever.
************************************************** **
title: machina acoustic demos
cds: 1
length: 46 min
quality: 9

tracks and flaws of this copy:

01: if there is a god
02: blue skies bring tears
03: wound (if you wait)
04: les deux ex machina
05: vanity
06: glass & the ghost children
01:38 - skip (on all circulating copies)
07: autumn
08: drain
09: laugh
10: here i am
11: lover
12: let me give the world to you
01:45 - tape flub (on all circulating copies)
13: blue skies bring tears
02:31 - tiny click
14: speed kills
cut at the end (all circulating copies)

note:

every flaw which is stated as "tiny" is nearly inaudible. i heard them only while really listening for them with my headphones on from the stereo, so you would most likely not hear them when listening in any other way.
Mashed Potatoes - 1994
CD > WAV > SHN


CD 1:

Happy Fucking Valentines
Tristessa (live 92)
There It Goes (demo 88)
With You (demo 89)
Jesus Loves His Babies (outtake 91)
Stray Cat Blues [Rolling Stones] (live 90)
Snail (radio 91)
Bob Speaks
Window Paine (live 90)
Wave Song (demo 91)
Blue (acoustic 91)
Lie I Lie (live 89)
My Eternity (radio 88)
Jesus Is the Sun (demo 90)
Sookie Sookie [Steppenwolf] (live 90)


CD 2:

Slunk (live 92)
Rocket (live 93)
Under Your Spell (demo 88)
Honeyspider (live 90)
STP (demo 91)
Snap (demo 89)
Rhinoceros (live 93)
Let's Meet the Band
Bleed (live 88)
Opal (live 90)
Worship (live 90)
Drown (live 92)
Fat Man Blues (live 89)
Try to Try (live 90)
Venus in Furs [Velvet Underground] (radio 88)
WNUR interview (radio 88)


CD 3:

And from the West Side...
Girl Named Sandoz [Animals] (live 92)
365 (live 90)
Spaceboy (outtake 93)
The Joker [Steve Miller] (live 92)
Suffer (live 92)
Coming Attractions
Egg (demo 89)
Bury Me (live 92)
Moleasskiss (demo 92)
I Am My End (live 90)
My Dahlia (demo 88)
Vanilla (demo 89)
East (demo 88)
Kill Your Parents
Terrapin [Syd Barrett] (live 91)
Cinder (live 91)
Luna (acoustic 91)


CD 4:

Interview Nozems a Go-Go
Morning Jam (live 90)
I'm Free [Who] (live 90)
Jennifer Ever (demo 88)
Plume (live 92)
Disarm (live 93)
Siva (live 92)
Translucent (demo 90)
Not Worth Asking (live 89)
Over You (live 90)
Where's Vince? (outtake 93)
Smiley (acoustic 91)
Geek U.S.A. (live 93)
Crush (live 92)
C'mon (live 90)


CD 5:

Hello Kitty Kat (demo 92)
Nothing and Everything (demo 88)
Mayonaise (outtake 93)
Out of Focus [Blue Cheer] (live 92)
Offer Up (live 92)
Silverfuck (live 92)
Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer [traditional] (live 93)
Stars Fall In (demo 89)
Godzilla [Blue ÷yster Cult] (live 90)
Bye June (live 92)
Spiteface (demo 88)
Daydream (demo 89)
I'll Never Change (live 90)
Infinite Sadness (outtake 93)


Label: (none)

Track info:

Disc 1:
Track 04: 1989 - Reel Time Studios
Track 13: 1989/03/16 - WZRD-FM Studios; Chicago, IL, US
Track 01: 1992/02/14 - Astoria Theater; London, UK
Track 07: 1992/01/15 - VPRO Radio; Hilversum, NL
Track 03: 1988 - Billy's father's home studio
Track 05: 1990 Dec - 1991 Mar - Smart Studios (Gish recordings)
Track 10: 1991 - Chicago Demos [?]
Track 14: 1990 - Chicago Demos [?]
Disc 2:
Track 06: 1989 - Reel Time Studios
Track 13: 1989 - Reel Time Studios (acoustic session)
Track 15: 1989/03/16 - WZRD-FM Studios; Chicago, IL, US
Track 02: 1993/07/26 - Tower Records; Chicago, IL, US
Track 03: 1988 - Billy's father's home studio
Disc 3:
Track 08: 1989 - Reel Time Studios
Track 13: 1989 - Reel Time Studios (acoustic session)
Track 14: The Smashing Pumpkins (tape)
Track 12: Light Into Dark (compilation)
Track 10: 1992 Spring - Soundworks
Disc 4:
Track 04: The Smashing Pumpkins (tape)
Track 08: 1990 - Chicago Demos [?]
Disc 5:
Track 08: 1989 - Reel Time Stuidos
Track 12: 1989 - Reel Time Studios
Track 02: The Smashing Pumpkins (tape)
Track 11: The Smashing Pumpkins (tape)
Track 01: 1992 - Chicago Studio [?]
Track 03: 1992 Dec - 1993 Mar - Triclops Sound Studios
Track 14: 1992 Dec - 1993 Mar - Triclops Sound Studios

All parenthetical notes are Billy's.

Tracks without parenthetical notes are stage banter.
"Opal" and "Worship" are run together as one track.
"Slunk" is the "Chump" version, and is labeled as such.

Length:

CD 1.000000: 01:03:15
CD 2.000000: 01:03:19
CD 3.000000: 01:02:55
CD 4.000000: 01:02:17
CD 5.000000: 01:01:33


Several copies given to friends of the band by Billy around 1993-1994.

mcis demos II:
ANA-L > DAT0 > CDR-0 > SHN (> CDR-1 when you burn it)
MCIS Demos III - Demos for D'arcy
1994-09-xx
Studio > ANA-L > CDR

(01) Stumbleine
(02) Jupiter's Lament
(03) Lily (My One and Only).
(04) To Forgive
(05) Bullet With Butterfly Wings
(06) Here Is No Why
(07) Galapogos
(08) Frantic Ab Groove
(09) Feelium
(10) God
(11) Marquis In Spades
MCIS Demos III (AKA Demos for D'arcy)

Restored by Max2Max 02/23/2007

Original notes (Thanks to the previous seeder, I don't remember his name...):
================================================== ==========================================

These demos were treed earlier this year as part of the Reel Time
Sessions tree. This rip is a lower generation than that which was treed.
It was copied onto DAT from the source tape and then transferred onto CD.
I've never heard the original treed version of this so I can't say how much better this sounds (if much at all).

01. Stumbleine
02. Jupiters Lament
03. Lilly (my one and Only)
04. To Forgive
05. Bullet with Butterfly Wings
06. Here is No Why
07. Galapogos
08. Frantic Ab Groove
09. Feelium
10. God
11. Marquis in Spades

================================================== ==========================================

* On MCIS Demos III - Demos for D'arcy 1994-09-xx Studio > ANA-L > CDR, noise reduction is used and not for the better IMHO, some tracks are i mono too.
* On this release, no noise reduction, EQ or compression. Only pitch and volume correction with sound forge.
* All tracks except 9 and 10 also appear on MCIS Demos I but here with an A sound :-)
* Track 9 is the full version of Feelium. A clip of Feelium can be heard in Pastichio Medley.

Details :

1. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize
2. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize
3. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize
4. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize
5. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize
6. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize
7. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize
8. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize (mono on Studio > ANA-L > CDR, stereo here !)
9. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize (mono on Studio > ANA-L > CDR, stereo here !)
10. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize (mono on Studio > ANA-L > CDR, stereo here !)
11. pitch shift + right channel volume correction + normalize (mono on Studio > ANA-L > CDR, stereo here !)
Smashing Pumpkins
Moon Demo Tape

Source: Virgin In-House Promo Cassette > Sony TC-K630ES > R-09(unity gain, 24/48)
Original editing: Audacity (amplified, spliced tape sides together), r8brain (downsample/dither), CDWave (split)
Additional editing: WAV file in Adobe Audition (speed fixing, a few tape blips fixed, volume balancing, etc)
> CDWave (splits, cutting some dead space, etc) > Flac Frontend

01. Honeyspider (alt.)
02. (interlude #1)
03. With You
04. Egg
05. (interlude #2)
06. Rhinoceros (alt.)
07. Bye June
08. Stars Fall In
09. Daughter
10. (interlude #3)
11. Daydream
12. (interlude #4)
13. Psychodelic

Notes:
All credits to bmaromar for the original tape and rhinowing for the transfer and share.

The original release ran a little too fast so my main intention was too fix this, a few extra tweaks ended up being tackled too.
Sounds as good as we're likely to get!

-sinfony
SOURCE: Original Demo Tape > CDR > EAC > FLAC

I transferred the original demo tape to CDR a long time ago.
Here is additional info courtesy of spfc.org and the liner notes:


Self-released tape sold at early shows for $5.
J-card has lyrics for "Daydream" and a photocopied picture of the band. The picture is hand-colored with pink magic marker. All spellings of song titles are from the sleeve.
The title "Stars Fallin" is a misprint; the correct title is "Stars Fall In".

Additional info from inside the sleeve:

billy corgan - guitars, lead vocal
james - guitars
darcy - bass
jimmy chamberlin - drums

PRODUCED by Billy Corgan
ENGINEERED by Mark Ignoffo
At Reel Time Studios

Mark also plays organ

DOLBYSOUND
All songs by Corgan except Stars fallin by Corgan/Iha and daughter by Corgan/Wretzky (c) 1989 the smashing pumpkins

eternal thanks to: chris, bob, cuz, vince, tory, nick, ian, and the cabaret metro.
extra eternal thanks to the patient mark ignoffo.
1988 - Nothing Ever Changes
Lineage:
NEC: Ana-L>CDR-M>Cool-Edit>CDR-M (Asselin)>CDR-2>SHN

Tracklist:
01. The Vigil
02. Nothing and Everything
03. Holiday
04. Cross
Pisces Iscariot + Friends

ANA-M > SBlive > SHN > WAV > editing (steinberg freefilter) > SHN

* the discs you burn will effectively be CDR-0
* each disc is just over 50 mins, they're from opposite sides of a 100min tape
* Mayo is cut (as it is on the tape)
* steinberg freefilter is what Starseed used to do the EQ mirroring.. which is why the PI songs sound nearly identical to the CD versions.
* "it's got a few pops and tape jumps, but overall it's pretty damn sweet" - Starseed

qaos:
side a: UAA
side b: UGA
DISC 1:
01. Egg
02. Bury Me
03. Bye June
04. Cinamon Girl
05. C'mon
06. Daughter
07. Daughter (extended)
08. Daydream
09. East (alt)
10. Honey Spider
11. Honey Spider (alt)
12. Honey Spider (alt heavy)
13. I am One
14. Love
15. Not Worth Asking
16. Psychodelic
17. Rhinoceros
18. Rhinoceros (alt)
19. Snap

DISC 2:
01. Stars Fall In
02. With You
03. Waiting for you Now
04. Fat Man Blues (abandoned) - Fat Man Blues (tease) - Fat Man Blues (1st half)
05. Fat Man Blues (2nd half) - Bleed (tease)
06. Bleed (2 false starts) - Bleed
07. She (2 false starts) - She (abandoned) - Vanilla (multiple teases)
08. Vanilla
09. My Dahlia (2 teases) - My Dahlia (abandoned) - My Dahlia (abandoned) - (jam tease) - Fat Man Blues (tease)
10. Waiting
11. Sun (abandoned w/teases) - Fat Man Blues (tease) - Stray Cat Blues (multiple teases)
12. Stray Cat Blues
13. I am One Pt.2


Reel Time Sessions Bonus Tracks

BONUS TRACKS: three bonus tracks were tacked to the end of disc 2 for those who
participated in the tree of this material. Time has Come Today is from Last Exit,
11-20-88 Chicago. Jennifer Ever is the same version found already in circulation,
but with only a single guitar track (no drums, etc). Nothing + Everything comes
from an unknown date and venue in 1989.
The Smashing Pumpkins
"Sequence IV" 31 May 1995
ANA-? > DAT > CDR-? > WAV [EAC] > WAV [WaveLab, FreeFilter] > SHN
http://www.spfc.org/band/studio.html?session_id=26

Known flaws: "twinkling" / crappy treble
dropout in Muzzle at 1:04
pops in Porcelina

In an attempt to make Sequence IV (a rough mix of MCIS' "Dawn to Dusk")
remotely listenable, I ran each track individually through FreeFilter
against its MCIS counterpart. It sounds a hell of a lot better, but it
didn't fix the clipping or the annoying 'twinkling' that probably
resulted from injudicious noise reduction.

I adjusted the preamp (I assume it was pre?) before applying the filter
in order to prevent clipping from the EQ process. I also adjusted the
volumes afterwards in an attempt to maintain the relative loudness of
each track on the disc. Some of the tracks seem a little bass-y, but
what the hell.

With that out of the way, I think this is an interesting listen. Several
of the tracks are nearly finished, but quite of the few tracks are
noticeably different. In general, some subtle instrumentation on the
final mix is more noticeable, and several of the instrumental takes are
slightly different.

::shrug:: Love it or leave it... hope I didn't screw anything up.

- ivor the engine driver


Total Time: 60:55
1. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
2. Tonite Tonite
3. Jellybelly
4. Zero
5. Here Is No Why
6. Bullet With Butterfly Wings (no vocals)
7. To Forgive
8. Fuck You
9. Love
10. Cupid De Locke
11. Galapagos
12. Muzzle
13. Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
14. Lily
15. Take Me Down

but i guess we're not including this version of sequence 4...

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 01:55 PM
does anyone have the originally shared files for "sacred and profane tour soundboard compilation"?

i see the zomb has a version that's sourced from a bootleg. (the bootleg must've been sourced from the original files.)

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 02:04 PM
Even if the circulating version of Sequence IV is awful. We should still share that unless we can't get a better copy. Dave Asselin has a better on DAT, and in the past has actually offered to lend his collection to those who can make high quality copies, so perhaps we should chase this up.

I haven't gone through all of what you posted yet. But something to note is that you appear to have the very first transfer of MCIS Demos III which circulated, and an altered copy of the lower gen transfer which was circulated afterwards. I have the unaltered lower gen. It would be interesting to see how the two transfers compare.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 02:26 PM
But something to note is that you appear to have the very first transfer of MCIS Demos III which circulated, and an altered copy of the lower gen transfer which was circulated afterwards. I have the unaltered lower gen. It would be interesting to see how the two transfers compare.

here's the SHN set: https://www.sendspace.com/file/n8qjs6

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 02:40 PM
The fingerprints for the SHNs don't appear to be correct. I'm not familiar with shntool I'm afraid, but perhaps they are SHA1 sums instead of MD5?

That said, from the first list, things you have that I don't:


3 Songs o rarities
Adore Demos II Tape Sides
Moon Demo tape Original


Things that match/can be verified as good in your collection:


Ignoffo Tape (distributed with FFPs, and matches my copy)
Kitty Kat (distributed with MD5, and matches my copy)
Quiet and Other Songs tape sides (matches my FFPs)


Unverifiable, as I don't have a good copy to compare with:


MCIS Demos I
Moon Demo tape Original (I think we were looking for this)


Undesirable:

MCIS Demos III restored
Speed corrected Moon tape


Inconsistencies:


Machina Acoustic Demos (my FFPs are different)


Machina Acoustic Demos source file:

billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich (NHL) --> me.
transferred with EAC, configured correctly for offset.

14 tracks.

skip in Gl+tGC is on the master.

billy cuts songs.

W

I think it sounds like mine has a better lineage.

Do you have a source file for MCIS Demos I, or the original Moon Demo tape? I don't see it.

marrs-guitar
06-25-2014, 02:47 PM
I've got a speed corrected version (self-created) of the MCIS Rough Mix sourced from bmaromar's tape that I'll seed on zomb

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 02:49 PM
Do we want to share speed corrected versions or original unaltered editions? I would say it is best to share the original.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 03:17 PM
i believe the shntool md5 is the same calculation as flac fingerprints. they look at the audio content.
the old md5 checksum files that came with shn sets, are wholefile md5 checksums.
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17951

all shn sets above also come with md5 files. i've checked them all, and they were all fine. (i didn't share those md5 files, as i thought they were of no use.)

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 03:27 PM
Inconsistencies:


Machina Acoustic Demos (my FFPs are different)


Machina Acoustic Demos source file:

billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich (NHL) --> me.
transferred with EAC, configured correctly for offset.

14 tracks.

skip in Gl+tGC is on the master.

billy cuts songs.

W

I think it sounds like mine has a better lineage.

you're right.
i found that source too. it's a set of shn files.

marrs-guitar
06-25-2014, 03:27 PM
Do we want to share speed corrected versions or original unaltered editions? I would say it is best to share the original.

Wouldn't it be best to share the optimal versions? I mean the original files that are shared are done so with the uploader/sharer believing that the songs are at the correct pitch/speed after all.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 03:31 PM
i'm a bit confused about the md5 checksums from trader's little helper (shntool).
so these don't match the flac fingerprints? (none?)

EDIT: i was being silly. i selected the wrong type of checksum in trader's little helper. i was calculating the wholefile md5 checksum. let me re-run all of this. (i'll in<fucking>clude that better lineage of machina acoustic demos.)

EDIT 2: also for the flac files i selected the wrong type of checksum. i selected ffp (which just reads the checksum from the flac file's header). now re-ran with "st5" option, which re-calculates the flac fingerprints, looking at the actual audio file content.

SORRY ABOUT THAT!

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 03:37 PM
Do you have a source file for MCIS Demos I, or the original Moon Demo tape? I don't see it.

mcis demos I: http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/boot.html?boot_id=12
set of files comes with a EAC log file. so i assume it's ripped directly from the bootleg cd. there's no "info" file though.

i also found an incomplete bootleg of this set of demos: http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/boot.html?boot_id=63


original moon: "SOURCE: Original Demo Tape > CDR > EAC > FLAC
I transferred the original demo tape to CDR a long time ago.
..."

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 03:41 PM
ffp of all:
5c144e1968317e2439988b46255e35d4 [shntool] 3 Songs O' Rarities\01 - My Eternity.flac
fc7f3adf58defd861b623d101752cde1 [shntool] 3 Songs O' Rarities\02 - She.flac
1474470947772c093e7219c692169c9f [shntool] 3 Songs O' Rarities\03 - My Dahlia (rehearsal).flac
34e2b1c9cf912a54c13e38b25bf8a2ba [shntool] 666\01 - Mellon Collie and The Infinite Sadness.shn
c72cff6c0d36abf237d792082dd01164 [shntool] 666\02 - The Viper.shn
8561292168b01e179753cd9388d8f7cd [shntool] 666\03 - funky jam-.shn
910271cab84cdd04acd635e8da2d7747 [shntool] 666\04 - Tribute To Johnny.shn
2757f947d817837e836cb92dd62c5a3e [shntool] 666\05 - Porcelina Of The Vast Oceans.shn
7e21708992c36cbd81fb53fbdab552d7 [shntool] 666\06 - Rachel_XYU.shn
28ae68e978fecf606a4fa6dbfc5be907 [shntool] 666\07 - Thru The Eyes Of Ruby (w_Billy bullshiting lyrics).shn
717324dcdffd89b87a71cf1ba40f0676 [shntool] 666\08 - V-8.shn
60e9314ffe89024a71ab51a79c669fdc [shntool] 666\09 - Rachel_XYU.shn
7edff605879fbe41e307e904b7820513 [shntool] 666\10 - The Black Rider_Die.shn
257985e606a0bf3d4c50970e63601096 [shntool] 666\11 - USA.shn
db06184af8dca42d985399f429157a6d [shntool] 666\12 - Zero.shn
1b7a7617ec7dbf8528bd56319d6fee55 [shntool] 666\13--blank--.shn
f4e7f99b12082992281f442332a21a19 [shntool] 666\14 - The Boy.shn
cfb23819d6a02ade4b7f4b30bf1a8f75 [shntool] 666\15 -talking-.shn
99baa2f1a754555308aea03478556541 [shntool] 666\16 -joke song-.shn
ef346e0c31d59a6fac3ab7e6ef448c13 [shntool] 666\17 -tuning_messing around-.shn
e252e0db72415e94a1ceaa3a90a0a8d4 [shntool] 666\18 -talking-.shn
f29378a4d33c354dd2af2b570bd1996b [shntool] 666\19 - Zero.shn
c6f55b6a897446e3b8b83828aff7a825 [shntool] 666\20 -drum fixing-.shn
58ffaade89f2c2da5b42cc1e747f26d7 [shntool] 666\21 -more drums-.shn
e987353d4be630e46b1da3e551fc888f [shntool] 666\22 - USA.shn
22945b0f32f6df0e4645c7bf55280b67 [shntool] 666\23 - Cupid De Locke.shn
0d1fe1f374ec0009833441ee836106eb [shntool] 666\24 - USA.shn
1cf1b190211c331139f7f6d0484d0225 [shntool] 666\25 -talking-.shn
2cc222beb810e3f6c5604df1f5a18bfb [shntool] 666\26 -talking-.shn
3e8d5f9098380a372f071bd3119cbc1f [shntool] 666\27 -talking-.shn
b2e81ca659a2a6a0758abeea113af8fc [shntool] 666\28 - Zero.shn
e689b20e3a7bc86957e49c8bc2c7f8dc [shntool] 666\29 -talking-.shn
4af2ca502dad13f3474d7182667d5e5b [shntool] 666\30 - Zero.shn
08aea10a8b7adf2fdba0249e01873c72 [shntool] 666\31 - Zero.shn
cfad03bad8b6f9613c235438c1b31594 [shntool] 666\32 -talking-.shn
8301a3aced7d4cef055f1f90e17f83a6 [shntool] 666\33 -talking-.shn
394747c4689d34c18165e0f1c1f9ed93 [shntool] 666\34 -talking-.shn
1f21d579e9d899515743cc4c963c4995 [shntool] Adore Demos I\01. the other side (for martha instrumental).shn
a3a6bf7615711fe85e0f5b52f9306239 [shntool] Adore Demos I\02. chewing gum.shn
979ba309370c61fbd487f81075ceb02b [shntool] Adore Demos I\03. the tale of dusty and pistol pete.shn
3f93d4b2e2614949cea1f3ad5981c1cc [shntool] Adore Demos I\04. annie dog.shn
638c1c554fa4bf21accb82f9d69ce1e8 [shntool] Adore Demos I\05. once in a while.shn
d20c07c185dead99a161985c592205f7 [shntool] Adore Demos I\06. do you close your eyes.shn
1375511c3354d69a37db25293b1aa85b [shntool] Adore Demos I\07. my mistake.shn
dcf73a642dda69d7ce68997b048704d4 [shntool] Adore Demos I\08. i need you around (blissed and gone).shn
1a940b974d5725d33ca6b5e5cf6c837c [shntool] Adore Demos I\09. batman 1 (the end is the beginning is the end).shn
e23ca57d3e469b7235e955e66f839957 [shntool] Adore Demos I\10. batman 2 (the beginning is the end is the beginning).shn
84c850b271507499dc9ec478809e1603 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\01 - Lover.flac
eaf93f519ec3d0bc6b87762361a05d88 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\02 - Let Me Give The World To You.flac
5c723cf451fefa8d19d180fd133d7c84 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\03 - Because You Are.flac
da2554345a52c2db6f31ee885731299c [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\04 - Satellites.flac
b147e14bfbbc3c1b9dda4410d3570665 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\05 - Without You.flac
3b2310cb77e703da802a6fb0f2843668 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\06 - Joy.flac
ffb312e9485cea2129b8c1b55851f746 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\07 - Blissed And Gone (cut).flac
35a18bd28ac9f261d63d0d4c134abb53 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\08 - Saturnine.flac
a2a1c633fc90654f11febd55ee8271a4 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\09 - Cross (cut).flac
66d0a2ad796a4e93a4849291327139a3 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\10 - Winterlong.flac
59486c7f3f1d496f16b38f765c1e08a9 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\11 - Soot And Stars.flac
0b54c459cbe13d420c91f65b85a932ea [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\12 - Chewing Gum.flac
8faddc656db322b2f7223d58c267e1f4 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\13 - Do You Close Your Eyes.flac
47beb0a622d099fa87c11b0f2963e821 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\14 - My Mistake.flac
9afe2f7c26ce920576243f24bf1c63d5 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\15 - Jersey Shore.flac
4fd5cebb0145dbc92552c9e8bfba2370 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\16 - Valentine.flac
0ce9ebff9954bb245e200dc89bf0ab66 [shntool] Adore Demos II {StArSeEd}\17 - Waiting (cut).flac
e3836f8a461ecbfec6d67a50d6fb150e [shntool] Adore Demos II\side a.flac
9148d2b11fcf9aa834162479f11956e5 [shntool] Adore Demos II\side b.flac
3331c7f9c1181dcd7231e6dba7646910 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\01 - Jellybelly.shn
ed2c09b6ac8d336bfb4e1e22de2950a2 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\02 - Beautiful One.shn
3762191a27d83c5953ce94b1612e3557 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\03 - Bullet with Butterfly Wings (vox).shn
7dbe4aea283396c5d4db967bf02bd8b8 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\04 - No Escape.shn
a97c57bedf3d4468bf5e2f4d80e2f0a8 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\05 - To Forgive For Nothing Less.shn
ca07fa93a8e16e305f61cc799f32acf6 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\06 - Blast.shn
c9cfd826e143c3fc2cb592e34397ef84 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\07 - Descendo.shn
8260ce0fbcd53e3861069aa9132a4b84 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\08 - And I Stumbled On To You.shn
65335ef801bde0a9d728a2fbad18612b [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\09 - Dizzle.shn
7535b34f634325e9c3f544c6635435bb [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\10 - A,Ab,E,B,F#.shn
f8183c14bc4e6c836a45f8d09a1646da [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\11 - Rings.shn
b37185afadd1226a08652362528b4a74 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\12 - James' Complex Song.shn
b73a64bf7a373ff7d92d6927e9f3a981 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\13 - With Longing.shn
5e08930ac3cd158b7591ed827fcfbc83 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\14 - Straight Ab.shn
f165fd8b580a95551eb9b94567d90b45 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\15 - Set the Ray to Jerry.shn
d6b7dd894a514302763de6cd80c37a87 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\16 - The Innocents.shn
3b84d36d330f23d4c0a4da45fcfd1f9b [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\17 - A Drone.shn
93b523639fd391c11df17681a29c33cb [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\18 - Lucky Lad .shn
f31912e5a424d9b13e08bd540d80d022 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\19 - Jackboot.shn
ecbf4f2f97e97d08ca63ba1b4ce04207 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\20 - New Wave A to G.shn
be76896946a4b9fe0663b4c5e53bf860 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\21 - A,B,G Drop A.shn
4cf2aae99355b36a7b074dcde06234af [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\22 - Glamey Glamay.shn
d148f2e98c74b904a121d20cfe93cd15 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\23 - Walking Country.shn
83785100c68a2522d61f9e6fc95ead1b [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\24 - Tonight, Tonight (in C).shn
d3e8604098d78dc59069d860d4960d80 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\25 - The Groover.shn
d86ed40f788e6405a2e15901fcde96e1 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\26 - Germans In Leather Pants.shn
795d4439d33c9f9201c27966809e1268 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\27 - Millieu.shn
218f008830b7ccdf250b41de70f58bd3 [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\28 - E-drone E,C#,A.shn
eaa85e9e22a870f891eed2ec1408742a [shntool] Billy's Gravity Demos I\29 - Disconnected.shn
0d9f81a5afee6322f11d376d1173462a [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\01. glass' theme.shn
ef4841b54ee94be9ced9253323c8267f [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\02. disco king (the everlasting gaze).shn
7f8356e39af1bab10e19d9879b7cedcb [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\03. dross.shn
dc4a51aa793a6769c388ee6f3607addd [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\04. blue skies bring tears (version 1).shn
1ba44011c3e3149c4d801bda7b3df4ad [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\05. if there is a god.shn
f78088105f235ad122a3195b4b047600 [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\06. le deux machina.shn
ed7332c7ecee9b52692af0d4c5742064 [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\07. heavy metal machine.shn
9bbd1823d0735b6c6b97507749a968f5 [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\08. here's to the atom bomb.shn
180cf38580f9f2065255d66310e4b097 [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\09. real love.shn
68ed80a5b6d5e0bf472c7e8b47198fdb [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\10. money (98.10.31).shn
c370f188b965d1cc875d646af32b106a [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\11. xyu (98.10.31).shn
2effd86de3ebe401e8e924957cc6d980 [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\12. once upon a time.shn
a74195a21a726418da63d625d5787faf [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\13. crestfallen.shn
1aff11ef90cddd5fa4c55ddf3270b413 [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\14. unknown instrumental.shn
f44401c0bca2e83f547bf860f1a185a8 [shntool] Friends and Enemies of Modern Music\20. firewall.shn
a027adee377ff67c7e929f77b20e9d7d [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T01 - I Am One.flac
ca29ecabaa199f56cc2797344b9b3c05 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T02 - Bury Me.flac
8cd379b5fa52527db0446c94f0972f85 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T03 - Daydream.flac
0b52ab5a96facc05d2671722cd4892c8 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T04 - Not Worth Asking.flac
8d86a28ef294510b925400a1db8a1a7f [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T05 - Honeyspider.flac
61481e772e699c1bcf37433140e8e378 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T06 - Rhinoceros.flac
1b3567019b242038cc548e7cfb3aa405 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T07 - Snap.flac
a8209c5bb011570c4658b684bb4986fc [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T08 - Love.flac
800cfd1be46bdbccbd69a74109c9e89b [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T09 - C'mon.flac
04c30666871acbb2ce9af55f239112fe [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T10 - Under Your Spell.flac
194f3aa3329c660ad5b59c3aad22a897 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T11 - Jennifer Ever (Click Track).flac
7febbef15760bd919bfc003195089a9d [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D1T12 - There It Goes (cut).flac
6a2c45a73104452575d7f614fa0c8e3e [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T01 - There It Goes.flac
d2c5c8bf88bd2782b32f1b7f278b6688 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T02 - She.flac
31e90dc2d4e409b4952917880788eb81 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T03 - My Eternity.flac
16c654750e5e8ab516fd928ea8b48837 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T04 - Oui Henri.flac
6436fe8422353b96f4eb3064eae45ca1 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T05 - Spiteface.flac
0c43b3d4da65cd30ce3630d9742d1e1e [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T06 - Nothing And Everything.flac
bbb3ececda48d1581f8ab95bee7d4ed1 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T07 - Cinnamon Girl.flac
f0e20186ec0dff7688e96d7efd93c3fb [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T08 - Time Has Come Today.flac
2a87a53578fb4f90c588a7b98df63ab8 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T09 - My Dahlia.flac
3a477c1c2b67fa92e7a3565f1c286cba [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T10 - My Dahlia (Rehearsal).flac
c89446b8c0da99635b28dc48bc163900 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T11 - The Crystal Ship.flac
9f54096d311f363dbc7fdaed9b4236d8 [shntool] Ignoffo Tape\D2T12 - I Fall.flac
2b7f799a8b20c4b764c933abfa24461c [shntool] Kitty Kat (original mix)\01 - Kitty Kat (original mix).flac
256ac3fa3fb3dc9e79bb2d43eec17520 [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track01.shn
d957b507a229832715e754a38ad115bc [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track02.shn
bae78f5780837425602e162bfe894b38 [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track03.shn
66a5d6d81fa9df8094c231fa3f739bbc [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track04.shn
1b69405f84b17d8ed7e5b46451178051 [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track05.shn
39aa58e4c7faf66237421ad271ea565e [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track06.shn
a456a07d10099fd47e8a013e56999386 [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track07.shn
3563f1ed3bc8a9c9836a88fa41ca9515 [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track08.shn
06b7afd57941b0698baba7308895ae8d [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track09.shn
00906708b2f7b0f49b1c3a980d198aa9 [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track10.shn
b330f004c0b57bdd7fa41c30a5f7c7ad [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track11.shn
bd967850115a62d28eb975b22e80038b [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track12.shn
f3e8999ec3a701379a74b8c915f080f9 [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track13.shn
a3de0f5f206fa7a31b7753075911d40d [shntool] Machina Acoustic Demos\track14.shn
92425f2a15524104a8aed79d66f7a0c7 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T01 Happy Fucking Valentines.shn
26e9969e10966daa5b46d404c804b05b [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T02 Tristessa (live 92).shn
3645babfd158e8eb5a2e172666bf6e25 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T03 There It Goes (demo 88).shn
f12d69dc1ccbf5b20a357d1e4492a916 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T04 With You (demo 89).shn
0cc3219a9747965aec5c6b089e4ec5e3 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T05 Jesus Loves His Babies (outtake 91).shn
4c9582b6680f6f832cff08b85713c1d5 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T06 Stray Cat Blues [Rolling Stones] (live 90).shn
c8907f218ee989cc80c78c0999a1c067 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T07 Snail (radio 91).shn
c95a7415b66d44149dfa24b1faa490c5 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T08 Bob Speaks.shn
49554a84a8a0aa8ee565143051a1973d [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T09 Window Paine (live 90).shn
57c838925e87c9a4105be4619d4de70c [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T10 Wave Song (demo 91).shn
91f8d76a77e521dfa1a5501022daaa2e [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T11 Blue (acoustic 91).shn
50fbfb0a11d67ce4440dc8fcfa7aa82f [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T12 Lie I Lie (live 89).shn
5ed9201048b7d21fb3f2166d139cdba9 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T13 My Eternity (radio 88).shn
e251e7ef76adb023e3375e0bee54f1df [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T14 Jesus Is the Sun (demo 90).shn
3bac590567bba06e02c81b0a909f7d7e [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T15 Sookie Sookie [Steppenwolf] (live 90) (fixed).shn
f7f332f68b66e5b81d77ce1c2c476967 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 1\D1 T15 Sookie Sookie [Steppenwolf] (live 90).shn
210b0e00cbbe98a71109f2b6ef6f4551 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T01 Slunk (live 92).shn
db385bb592d6b41dae655c09ac43c1ee [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T02 Rocket (live 93).shn
eec5d64ba6497ae7660a3017b04456af [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T03 Under Your Spell (demo 88).shn
6a1119623ec97705200983d95bf5886a [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T04 Honeyspider (live 90).shn
6dab06588aca2239bf2020503edac916 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T05 STP (demo 91).shn
d164fec519f8b4ba97cc1e63637a5976 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T06 Snap (demo 89).shn
4c907217e707da118090114e01451433 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T07 Rhinoceros (live 93).shn
8ad732c075d7695f933b378ade2eea37 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T08 Let's Meet the Band.shn
2b9d887d29e259994f810d6a24e7d845 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T09 Bleed (live 88).shn
51ce5e1baf26cd2c7c56c66118042978 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T10 Opal-Worship.shn
8101304a7ad6bc7a0fa0069c04bba633 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T11 Drown (live 92).shn
d6867fd8326d6e5a91c7a7b35b597c29 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T12 Fat Man Blues (live 89).shn
741fc674584374c97e7c6daebe60fee2 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T13 Try to Try (live 90).shn
237d89715856984f405e3829540f09e2 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T14 Venus in Furs [Velvet Underground] (radio 88).shn
1f14ab625a33c83cbe63d3f9d927af19 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 2\D2 T15 WNUR interview (radio 88).shn
0ca9717e1f3458b5e4f054a9a5a7735b [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T01 And from the West Side....shn
1c91e3542f24bad60e863242568fd181 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T02 Girl Named Sandoz [Animals] (live 92).shn
7eae1cd03b16d3abb51f114673aef10b [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T03 365 (live 90).shn
695ba17d192ef5527f0bc94c7ea73c8b [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T04 Spaceboy (outtake 93).shn
a380c95bdc5e15213d2f2a83cb2cfe33 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T05 The Joker [Steve Miller] (live 92).shn
f50189d11e1689eef864fb5dd13310f9 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T06 Suffer (live 92).shn
19ed080fd0c25364775f9d34e2c00383 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T07 Coming Attractions.shn
2e461bb5a847423125a90ff072ce51eb [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T08 Egg (demo 89).shn
3bcf47a9ef600449eb0fdd752e27b261 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T09 Bury Me (live 92).shn
b0be2c770f37690819e2d30bf710852a [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T10 Moleasskiss (demo 92).shn
eaf8e7e524b02031b72e7bc75936cf32 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T11 I Am My End (live 90).shn
3727cc30403953b66338d47017685de7 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T12 My Dahlia (demo 88).shn
dea185b1bcbe08ca66f4c272eb80af22 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T13 Vanilla (demo 89).shn
6dedcfc27bedf887161839250a5ad71b [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T14 East (demo 88).shn
a8d09892b25c65550c1cda946cbd2d57 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T15 Kill Your Parents.shn
1fe7f498bf57a244e5aceae4049b6490 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T16 Terrapin [Syd Barrett] (live 91).shn
53b1a2dbe14c034116d4057ad37fed96 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T17 Cinder (live 91).shn
fb22a5aaddd4fcffec377ad82a4dfb23 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 3\D3 T18 Luna (acoustic 91).shn
df5603d92af1d373efbb8b3ad07ee70f [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T01 Interview Nozems a Go-Go.shn
bce51b1197c086caea007c1f51982a41 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T02 Morning Jam (live 90).shn
6251d6fefea94157cbd11d08b96730cd [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T03 I'm Free [Who] (live 90).shn
71bd73c97e600fcd8ef29ba7743c39e6 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T04 Jennifer Ever (demo 88).shn
f0c9ae778359120e8159c2ced6730b4c [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T05 Plume (live 92).shn
33bcc4f5cebce9116e8b74221b386d94 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T06 Disarm (live 93).shn
b634146e191610f72e8b413e2e739f13 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T07 Siva (live 92).shn
38b1f73ee7b70bf68cbcac8f6ba8f481 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T08 Translucent (demo 90).shn
fc7e2ced959a135582af4113d7b60dde [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T09 Not Worth Asking (live 89).shn
5b51fa3c812bc73b9a48ddb6a5ff8f05 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T10 Over You (live 90).shn
3f3cf07b95212e9076dcc139e4b5afec [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T11 Where's Vince (outtake 93).shn
061f9b5e4a5f35ec833ad5157e0cca06 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T12 Smiley (acoustic 91).shn
60a863e4c6fe0b558aa9ec8427b1f436 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T13 Geek U.S.A. (live 93).shn
277e926270d416a6591e577053eae6bd [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T14 Crush (live 92).shn
dc054273862505e17114e82080ba8cae [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 4\D4 T15 C'mon (live 90).shn
5fbf38393479924222eb5764549d5fd5 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T01 Hello Kitty Kat (demo 92).shn
6782e4e2b94221371e0e8e9fa46669df [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T02 Nothing and Everything (demo 88).shn
4fe453b86e2c8bf4ef41c7e34bf3c28e [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T03 Mayonaise (outtake 93).shn
284718506ca3cbea9f5b1216e1e94bc2 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T04 Out of Focus [Blue Cheer] (live 92).shn
f469eb283dd5db63020a2acb2d056654 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T05 Offer Up (live 92).shn
17fff8ac7c14348a41d2bf031d2d2ea5 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T06 Silverfuck (live 92).shn
8859fbe1e545f163a6c6e9e05f9c926d [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T07 Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (live 93).shn
54120a8ddf59e232ba5176680ca68204 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T08 Stars Fall In (demo 89).shn
10bf77b805f283d168c593e384ef93aa [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T09 Godzilla [Blue ÷yster Cult] (live 90).shn
b0417e67f41b0f71f04693fe0b6da16a [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T10 Bye June (live 92).shn
6dd8ec72d73e877f4cc5721b2f895d24 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T11 Spiteface (demo 88).shn
202b7d634c422ac60e485ab503d89959 [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T12 Daydream (demo 89).shn
ddf612d7f436adba16b2ff30214e288b [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T13 I'll Never Change (live 90).shn
c30e7f4622e07b34ae138965b5cf87bb [shntool] Mashed Potatoes\Disc 5\D5 T14 Infinite Sadness (outtake 93).shn
7362ff789b9011be81973f41b8bbc9dd [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 01 - Stumbleine.flac
3aa99f398a9140acb9cf7135b7355788 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 02 - Jupiter's Lament.flac
502cd3cc606ef6f19357f1aa1f0e254a [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 03 - Lily.flac
855d35e2b8ed91ecd474c02f2d4aa956 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 04 - To Forgive.flac
d94696af30fd82a00d46e8b717568b3f [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 05 - Bullet With Butterfly Wings.flac
8567051808a3b97adcab0721c9b27294 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 06 - Here Is No Way.flac
fd7df410e78bc8fa6255bc8fdf892648 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 07 - Galapogos.flac
ee16443d3bfe49ce6f2c0a1de0b22c49 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 08 - Frantic Ab Groove.flac
90735c5f88d42469e026767c348db50b [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 09 - Autumn Nocturne.flac
3a06572525487335f1e3079cf1d21ecf [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 10 - Blank.flac
f73fc7a2051735359b4f4814de839d97 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 11 - Rotten Apples.flac
ec58aa536215dcd2e408a3875d14c59d [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 12 - Ugly.flac
667b91ce54fb9ce539e5c3b94eb577c2 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 13 - Wishing You Were.flac
f6a9df394ca12433a5a25c4131b610a6 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 14 - Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness.flac
039c3545e376c52053382f52818b35c5 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 15 - Meladori Magpie.flac
e9fe664cc81e3c46fd1d093eb71c472b [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 16 - Thirty-Three.flac
d4c9bea9d8e2c94f6af7fd6b57fed89b [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 17 - Beautiful (Ropey Lopey).flac
d9f5bd85ce8567864ed18fbfc7d37363 [shntool] MCIS Demos I\The Smashing Pumpkins - 18 - Marquis In Spades.flac
332690a1e2fb47f624006ff22b68bbfe [shntool] MCIS Demos II\01 - Bullet With Butterfly Wings.shn
0be55f489a46b1447f8b80fc267c3ee2 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\02 - Set The Ray To Jerry.shn
09ca5ab6fbecc61f710ce1ee4f00fbd8 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\03 - So Very Sad About Us.shn
4046aab843646469a52c7d382038b388 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\04 - Jellybelly.shn
93ce49a90fde1f9be152b1c226df503b [shntool] MCIS Demos II\05 - Mouths Of Babes.shn
442fd274ba849c6de60c8fb75d9e195d [shntool] MCIS Demos II\06 - Here Is Not Why.shn
aa8dd253d1d3ae0e5edb6e13e7c905cd [shntool] MCIS Demos II\07 - God.shn
5169ee7f65c36420af798d4c59823cdc [shntool] MCIS Demos II\08 - Love.shn
daa5852b3141b5614ef12f58068b7085 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\09 - Wishing You Were.shn
14389b2f2693d57d7e79446efada65e8 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\10 - Tonight, Tonight.shn
10a6711514f5b9da7a8bd80f5e67e04e [shntool] MCIS Demos II\11 - Methusela.shn
522926e4a0231e216d93c3225ff20e92 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\12 - Depresso.shn
0fe93362dbf9e604daa2b1b04a8e1c27 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\13 - Zero.shn
32c566a56abbe44e5d81b72773b0e9ba [shntool] MCIS Demos II\14 - Zero.shn
2eba33a7cabd63c85e28e2ddf9b27a37 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\15 - Here Is Not Why.shn
c674593afb9c2834dcd169573669b162 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\16 - Cherry.shn
9c6592a0321b4fa2dd7c5b109b36385a [shntool] MCIS Demos II\17 - Beautiful.shn
30bb6dad9b6682af439a5d454b1d4752 [shntool] MCIS Demos II\18 - Unknown.shn
edc5ae5c5e17ffb2e3656f4e134b6007 [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track01.flac
f3cf1b49eb684a948724317b470b446d [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track02.flac
ea310aa086deaf694f4ad7aaaa527e74 [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track03.flac
41be090a0c45f2af585743c6e9ffc4bd [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track04.flac
1987c25aae933965dff7125c3c650427 [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track05.flac
889529cfb774a2f562f4703bcd8aaa3e [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track06.flac
d6e44891ca4b65b90d6eb2b50a70dfa4 [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track07.flac
f8c1fd0129cf73afb80b436860c815c8 [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track08.flac
5c938c35d3f587d1811a534fd39a55b6 [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track09.flac
a8a934760d87da55e48b1f14fb88d30e [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track10.flac
9efa2386455c53303437055a3634185e [shntool] MCIS Demos III (restored)\Track11.flac
b42383c3b4f1df75b9284d576a383a49 [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(01) Stumbleine.shn
bfcec5066d931739b72333f30586b65c [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(02) Jupiter's Lament.shn
f03af49cd37a0e7d712ccd31dcb5a295 [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(03) Lily (My One and Only).shn
e93c84719a40862a34c9a7d89fa42f6d [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(04) To Forgive.shn
f0acf30eea737d7fb644f52fa2c1ddca [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(05) Bullet With Butterfly Wings.shn
1aab23bac099edc17adbbf6cd269a5b8 [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(06) Here Is No Why.shn
555f605bd6b0ab6f891cd02f8093855f [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(07) Galapogos.shn
88d482b25fa307759dfaa8a33312e4d5 [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(08) Frantic Ab Groove.shn
c70face32b062b6845d6758902442efe [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(09) Feelium.shn
0833ca0cef5e304f13d0b2cfaba66a4b [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(10) God.shn
f61d511f79c4f3310d1749e8bf4b4ab3 [shntool] MCIS Demos III\(11) Marquis In Spades.shn
d093bf8b3208b8f5e936170f2e4ae1a8 [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 01 - Honeyspider (alternate).flac
ca95a8497e0bb7cc89d52d94e2fde17a [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 02 - Spoken Word (pt. 1).flac
c79a5b17b0a80de0830436b745c27043 [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 03 - With You.flac
9d732d43168bbc504397c3a7669df95e [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 04 - Egg.flac
91842abd4f2f5fbd547237f1fe048f90 [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 05 - Spoken Word (pt. 2).flac
e85523a8650d9f065cc513d40d2097ec [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 06 - Rhinoceros (alternate).flac
c876686ee346d543383558f45712f508 [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 07 - Bye June.flac
f785e368ed72e477c4e961f81e0d7f88 [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 08 - Stars Fall In.flac
b7afef75607a4c4d019ba42823e1038a [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 09 - Daughter.flac
f04cf38996beae92bf8e8fba77f26a16 [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 10 - Spoken Word (pt. 3).flac
a86eb613b82496a6ba415919adc714cb [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 11 - Daydream.flac
fb95d32aee320b8f5cf9fac05dd1f088 [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 12 - Spoken Word (pt. 4).flac
f9c34976503011e873345c0f453d1607 [shntool] Moon (original tape)\Smashing Pumpkins - Moon Demo - 13 - Psychodelic.flac
ca9ba4f0be4e3194c0a5dc95840a02a4 [shntool] Moon\01 - Honeyspider (alt.).flac
8012b28644f74e72de4c897ce95da531 [shntool] Moon\02 - interlude #1.flac
f002907b1f6206be83d7553eaad5cc04 [shntool] Moon\03 - With You.flac
edb5d0eedf0411f38f112358372e1911 [shntool] Moon\04 - Egg.flac
8458364ad24e49c87377b3ba38f24a67 [shntool] Moon\05 - interlude #2.flac
090ee8eda6e8943b6a18188f78c11e44 [shntool] Moon\06 - Rhinoceros (alt.).flac
16c4b0757a55abbc7722022ba5dbbaba [shntool] Moon\07 - Bye June.flac
2c13b3a10845ac7d4bafc814d08e877a [shntool] Moon\08 - Stars Fall In.flac
a4aa790335ff5fd82655fea9bd5bbaeb [shntool] Moon\09 - Daughter.flac
0182363a4875c43d4e0ef5a8976ef742 [shntool] Moon\10 - interlude #3.flac
5c13ed7240d7ab93617e34ac9d61d371 [shntool] Moon\11 - Daydream.flac
5ccafb0a1eb5ba06a87f517b6d5846fc [shntool] Moon\12 - interlude #4.flac
3dfe21821272f22011186dd182451375 [shntool] Moon\13 - Psychodelic.flac
ffc2269f5d9b1d9de366f58974ed5e2f [shntool] Nothing Ever Changes\01 - The Vigil.shn
d8116485edcf504f6692c36a03331766 [shntool] Nothing Ever Changes\02 - Nothing + Everything.shn
4228149e16e28532beccf4793da9c56f [shntool] Nothing Ever Changes\03 - Holiday.shn
df99030b63a1469afc68f81c0e96089a [shntool] Nothing Ever Changes\04 - Cross.shn
a77757182cfa15d01dd543ade9f33076 [shntool] Pisces Iscariot + Friends\Pisces Iscariot + Friends CD1.shn
e9545df9fe2ab5d6fb2ae6c139d6f8b2 [shntool] Pisces Iscariot + Friends\Pisces Iscariot + Friends CD2.shn
3645950bd27f189352eb8283d1574a0d [shntool] Quiet and Other Songs\side a.flac
c4601cdbeffe45ee75b87499e36028ce [shntool] Quiet and Other Songs\side b.flac
d4558aa16f7019e39b521633f4316fd7 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Bonus Tracks\Bonus Track 01 - Time Has Come Today.shn
9a72ef3d0f708463ee14baa8b5157290 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Bonus Tracks\Bonus Track 02 - Jennifer Ever (Acoustic).shn
07a701df0909756eeedd0bcfa0eb70e9 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Bonus Tracks\Bonus Track 03 - Nothing and Everything.shn
e9dcd93cda9941a83ecafa3b72940992 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(01) Egg.shn
ac72dd7cc95a136129786dbfa2b1b8d3 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(02) Bury Me.shn
e33f589f61bb09991283e1d271eac318 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(03) Bye June.shn
c24b0a94011125e0037b7f174d7938a5 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(04) Cinnamon Girl (Neil Young).shn
67a48c41e07c8bce0c98804fe8941329 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(05) C'mon.shn
d43e1f5bb3e1f26b5343ed4aecef5b39 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(06) Daughter.shn
24bf4108127bf92ec71d11272733df34 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(07) Daughter (extended).shn
6a4c8419445e30363bfc57d0ea3fef86 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(08) Daydream.shn
019aeeed721b887760538548d0891e75 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(09) East (alternate).shn
8e7bc924b0abba92a3a1bfbabf8728e6 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(10) Honeyspider.shn
cdffd48a68e64b1ba32d64ea26deefd2 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(11) Honeyspider (alternate, heavy).shn
a3bb2c0ab62b9785de392b6fa8b6fe14 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(12) Honeyspider (alternate).shn
76b35a361546257e95da25c83c76b476 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(13) I Am One.shn
82d7daf75da88ee7e183a5fd2d069e9e [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(14) Love.shn
8ef7ce7fc950a37018ae8ab2d3da4cba [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(15) Not Worth Asking.shn
961cac95c972721970c21483cd46527e [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(16) Psychodelic.shn
30bc8ab74509b323399147c6c0629b9a [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(17) Rhinoceros (early, organ).shn
76107db12d45c962a145dd86c9b470ce [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(18) Rhinoceros (alternate).shn
59f8891295a8adc7938f6a2102319c3f [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(19) Snap.shn
a5c40b635459736efd1e1176d65ea568 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(01) Stars Fall In.shn
7f139c6f6ededb0c79411cea21ba7ca1 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(02) With You.shn
76f30c1f9d374519c7e8026881b3b00b [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(03) Waiting For You Now.shn
5e8b76d2626db31b802a2d60389d3ff0 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(04) Fat Man Blues (abandoned, tease, 1st half).shn
5d5da6ca5111ba347d36dfc793d24692 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(05) Fat Man Blues (2nd half) - Bleed (tease).shn
76918c97a41b61fafe783e43db56641e [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(06) Bleed (2 false starts) - Bleed.shn
830cc62858b646de227081d68e2bb8dc [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(07) She (2 false starts) - She (abandoned) - Vanilla (tease).shn
862c10e78e631e5f4672cb0d2cd2a1a5 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(08) Vanilla.shn
4a0ad0e0024db7859da13da9de0ac4e5 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(09) My Dahlia (2 teases) - My Dahlia (2 abandonments, jam tease) - Fat Man Blues (tease).shn
bd41a50907452c1a2dd5abd3c4c1477e [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(10) Waiting.shn
d04b069a32f3e572737052c647bf7975 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(11) Sun (abandoned, teases) - Fat Man Blues (tease) - Stra.shn
adb51bb28b2073bd8a76e162eaaae722 [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(12) Stray Cat Blues.shn
f1ccf097a49ea8864e7110c4912a9dad [shntool] Reel Time Sessions\Disc 2\(13) I Am One Part II.shn
0e06c758f589b1544eb4e7a99cf60543 [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t01.shn
d612d2180b6f2c5b7cf98844d257ea8d [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t02.shn
48d27050a3ecda57e1b12b925ad2a4cc [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t03.shn
1d552e28ca9411a1fb538128a4c6b86e [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t04.shn
314e23dd2bfd6473ffc0f1a6684751e6 [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t05.shn
71a7e2631462c1b4b109520a0e7ac468 [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t06.shn
0d0d740eadfa9edcde6dd6623aa28e75 [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t07.shn
e2e1bbda3fb25c1e8e03411c056f9870 [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t08.shn
ce03d7748039e4459422fad96b43996d [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t09.shn
06722c46c08500a7db925bd2f4f7b67e [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t10.shn
6298a720695cb444e9f120f0a3ed8413 [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t11.shn
b3e3f997fff17a82f9509cdf780662ba [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t12.shn
77f0c4e9fe8e5097552bc6565594dc1d [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t13.shn
75fcea10060c5241c19f688ed54a1a27 [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t14.shn
88c57e3d514a60f6e2e941fbc6d04871 [shntool] Sequence IV\sp-sequence4-EQ-t15.shn

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 03:43 PM
Do we want to share speed corrected versions or original unaltered editions? I would say it is best to share the original.
if the original runs fast or slow, why not share the improved version?

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 04:05 PM
mcis demos I: http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/boot.html?boot_id=12
set of files comes with a EAC log file. so i assume it's ripped directly from the bootleg cd. there's no "info" file though.

original moon: "SOURCE: Original Demo Tape > CDR > EAC > FLAC

I transferred the original demo tape to CDR a long time ago.

..."
Hmm. We have to be careful with MCIS Demos I, as there are multiple transfers floating around.

I think that Moon demo tape rip is the one on What. Sounds like it could be pretty good, I haven't got it.

Wouldn't it be best to share the optimal versions? I mean the original files that are shared are done so with the uploader/sharer believing that the songs are at the correct pitch/speed after all.

if the original runs fast or slow, why not share the improved version?

A few issues here. How do we know what speed is correct for every tape? The MCIS Demos III restored version that circulates, is speed corrected to match the original transfer, but do we know if the original transfer was the correct speed? Maybe neither are precisely the correct speed.

What if Billy introduced the errors on the actual recording on the original tape, then the error wouldn't be with any subsequent transfers. If we're going for definitive archival copies, we should preserve the issues (tape hiss, pops and clicks, speed issues). Even if Billy recognises these errors and speeds corrects in the official releases, the correction would still be a guess, so we couldn't just sync to that either.

Speed alteration is a lossy process. If we discover a few years down the line it was wrong, then we can't undo it losslessly, we have to use the original unaltered transfer. If we really want to do speed correction, the lossless way to do this is to change the file to use a non-standard sampling rate.

That said, speed corrections are great, and you should share it on ZOMB. But I don't think we should treat them as the definitive versions.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 04:12 PM
That said, from the first list, things you have that I don't:


3 Songs o rarities
Adore Demos II Tape Sides
Moon Demo tape Original


3 songs: https://www.sendspace.com/file/l9jfrq
adore demos II: https://www.sendspace.com/file/4b77ua
moon original tape: https://www.sendspace.com/file/6jbcd0

i'm surprised i didn't find any other sources for the moon tape. i thought i had more.

mcis demos I: this probably isn't the "original" set of files. i think this is something i found when i was looking for the demos more recently, and this was all i found, besides that other incomplete source.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 04:14 PM
Undesirable:

MCIS Demos III restored


but doesn't the info file claim that it's a serious lineage upgrade? if that's true, then the "restored" version should also be considered, i think.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-25-2014, 04:29 PM
so, does anyone have:
- mcis demos I
- the sacred and profane tour soundboard compilation
- other rips of the moon demo tape
- better source for sequence IV
?

what about the other early tapes? smashing pumpkins demo tape? "gish basement tape"? what else is there? (and are they worth being included?)

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 04:53 PM
but doesn't the info file claim that it's a serious lineage upgrade? if that's true, then the "restored" version should also be considered, i think.

Someone else uploaded the lineage upgrade, that circulates (and I have it) without any "restorations". Somebody took the original and "restored" it, and then circulated that too.

Here is the source file for the original.


Demos for D'arcy (AKA MCIS Demos III)

These demos were treed earlier this year as part of the Reel Time
Sessions tree. This rip is a lower generation than that which was treed. It was copied onto DAT from the source tape and then transferred onto CD. I've never heard the original treed version of this so I can't say how much better this sounds (if much at all).

01. Stumbleine
02. Jupiters Lament
03. Lilly (my one and Only)
04. To Forgive
05. Bullet with Butterfly Wings
06. Here is No Why
07. Galapogos
08. Frantic Ab Groove
09. Feelium
10. God
11. Marquis in Spades


A quick comparison of the two suggests that the first higher gen transfer probably also had noise reduction.

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 05:24 PM
Someone else uploaded the lineage upgrade, that circulates (and I have it) without any "restorations". Somebody took the original and "restored" it, and then circulated that too.


.

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 05:28 PM
- the sacred and profane tour soundboard compilation


http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=100837

Also part of triple tree.

marrs-guitar
06-25-2014, 06:10 PM
If we really want to do speed correction, the lossless way to do this is to change the file to use a non-standard sampling rate.


That's how I've done it (if I understand you correctly).

magikarp99
06-25-2014, 07:40 PM
That's how I've done it (if I understand you correctly).

To be clear, I mean that the sample rate is set to another frequency, note that this means that the audio is not resampled. Any FLACs you distribute will not be at 44.1Khz or at 48KHz, they will be at a non-standard frequency.

If you do this correctly, only the metadata in the FLAC file will be changed. You should be able to compute the fingerprint for the audio data on the original and the speed corrected versions and they should match perfectly. If the fingerprints don't match, then you haven't done it correctly.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-26-2014, 04:21 AM
Things that match/can be verified as good in your collection:


Ignoffo Tape (distributed with FFPs, and matches my copy)
Kitty Kat (distributed with MD5, and matches my copy)
Quiet and Other Songs tape sides (matches my FFPs)


comparing more fingerprints that were posted in this thread...

sequence IV: the shn set doesn't match the flac set, except for track 15.
i've also got that flac set, and the info file mentions that track 15 is missing, even though it is actually there. so clearly someone must've completed the flac set with a re-encoded track 15 from the shn set. (the fingerprints prove this.)
we should check if the flac set is the same as the shn set (if, for example, someone has burned the first 14 tracks on a cd-r and then ripped it to flac), or if it's a different source, maybe less processed.

mashed potatoes: matches, except for:
- d1 t01 happy fucking valentines
- d1 t08 bob speaks
- d2 t08 let's meet the band
- d3 t01 and from the west side...
- d3 t15 kill your parents
well, that's annoying. i'll look into this.
someone also added a d1 t15 sookie sookie [steppenwolf] (live 90) (fixed).shn to the shn set. not sure what has been fixed. maybe a glitch or something?

mcis demos II: no match.

machina acoustic demos: no match, except for track 4. weird.

magikarp99
06-26-2014, 04:39 AM
comparing more fingerprints that were posted in this thread...

sequence IV: the shn set doesn't match the flac set, except for track 15.
i've also got that flac set, and the info file mentions that track 15 is missing, even though it is actually there. so clearly someone must've completed the flac set with a re-encoded track 15 from the shn set. (the fingerprints prove this.)
we should check if the flac set is the same as the shn set (if, for example, someone has burned the first 14 tracks on a cd-r and then ripped it to flac), or if it's a different source, maybe less processed.

mashed potatoes: matches, except for:
- d1 t01 happy fucking valentines
- d1 t08 bob speaks
- d2 t08 let's meet the band
- d3 t01 and from the west side...
- d3 t15 kill your parents
well, that's annoying. i'll look into this.
someone also added a d1 t15 sookie sookie [steppenwolf] (live 90) (fixed).shn to the shn set. not sure what has been fixed. maybe a glitch or something?

mcis demos II: no match.

machina acoustic demos: no match, except for track 4. weird.

Don't look too deeply into the mismatches at the moment. The Mashed Potatoes SHNs came with fingerprints and MD5s. The MD5s match but the fingerprints don't. Running the Linux version of SHNtool indicates that it doesn't like these particular SHN files for whatever reason.

So the conclusion at the moment is that something is going wrong with SHN -> FLAC conversion on some of the files on Linux. I will look into this.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-26-2014, 04:41 AM
where do your flac sets of mcis demos II and machina acoustic demos come from, magikarp? and what about mashed potatoes?
did you download them as flac, or did you re-encode them yourself?

magikarp99
06-26-2014, 04:51 AM
I've not re-encoded anything. They're either from the Hub or from ZOMB.

magikarp99
06-26-2014, 05:40 AM
Fixed it. Will compare against my FFPs.

magikarp99
06-26-2014, 06:11 AM
Other things from the list you have that I don't:


That firewall track is FAEOMM
Reel Time Sessions\Disc 1\(03) Bye June.shn for some reason


Things that match/can be verified as good in your collection:


Mashed Potatoes (fingerprints match, verifies against supplied MD5s)
Gravity Demos (fingerprints match)
FAEOMM (fingerprints match)
Machina Acoustic Demos (fingerprints match)
MCIS Demos II (fingerprints match)
Nothing Ever Changes (fingerprints match, verifies against supplied MD5s)
Reel Time Sessions (fingerprints match, verifies against supplied MD5s)


Undesirable:

Sequence IV EQ'd - this is why the fingerprints don't match


Here is the source file for my copy of Seq. IV:

The Smashing Pumpkins
1995/05/31
Sequence IV
Chicago Recording Company

Tracklisting:

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Tonight, Tonight
Jellybelly
Zero
Here Is No Why
Bullet with Butterfly Wings
To Forgive
Fuck You
Love
Cupid de Locke
Galapogos
Muzzle
Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
Lily


Notes:

On this date, a rough mix of the Mellon Collie album was
created, dubbed Sequence Four. In other words, this tape was basically
what Mellon Collie sounded like as of May 31st. All songs were rough
takes and featured scratch vocals, if any; Galapogos even featured
a solo that was omitted from the final version.


Apparently, Take Me Down was also recorded, but I don't have it, Sorry!

Cool As Ice Cream
06-26-2014, 10:24 AM
yeah, but there is only one source of sequence IV to be out there, right?
isn't it most likely that this flac set is from the same source as the shn set (but worse, as the shn set must've been there first).

also, note how your flac set says "Apparently, Take Me Down was also recorded, but I don't have it, Sorry!", but track 15 is there, and the fingerprints match track 15 of the shn set... suspicious.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-26-2014, 10:26 AM
Fixed it. Will compare against my FFPs.

so you had the wrong ffps? (or do the ffps in the header not match the fingerprints calculated from the audio content? that might explain why TLH complains about those specific flac files... one might wonder what went wrong when creating the flac files and writing the fingerprints in the header.)

magikarp99
06-26-2014, 11:55 AM
yeah, but there is only one source of sequence IV to be out there, right?
isn't it most likely that this flac set is from the same source as the shn set (but worse, as the shn set must've been there first).

also, note how your flac set says "Apparently, Take Me Down was also recorded, but I don't have it, Sorry!", but track 15 is there, and the fingerprints match track 15 of the shn set... suspicious.

So something is definitely odd about my copy of Sequnce IV. As you say, the source file isn't an exact match to the audio files because Take Me Down clearly is included.

BUT. Your version of Sequence IV is not the original circulated copy either. The original had noise reduction applied. But your copy has also had the equalisation changed using FreeFilter by someone else (Ivor the engine). I believe a copy circulates without the FreeFilter processing.

magikarp99
06-26-2014, 11:58 AM
so you had the wrong ffps? (or do the ffps in the header not match the fingerprints calculated from the audio content? that might explain why TLH complains about those specific flac files... one might wonder what went wrong when creating the flac files and writing the fingerprints in the header.)

Ah, I guess I was unclear. The files I was checking weren't FLACs they were SHNs. But FLAC fingerprints and SHN fingerprints are identical as the checksum is calculated on the raw waveform. I just used the term interchangeably. There was no problem with the wrong checksum being stored in the metadata.

The latest fingerprints I've compared against are not pre-calculated. They are definitely accurate.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-26-2014, 12:32 PM
I believe a copy circulates without the FreeFilter processing.

AHA!

magikarp99
06-26-2014, 03:15 PM
AHA!

Still with the awful noise reduction though.

Rider
06-26-2014, 04:40 PM
The version of Sequence IV that I had and that was on the hub originally had a text file that mentioned "the twinkle effect" and a suspicion that it had been fucked with. I don't remember any actual mention of noise reduction in the lineage.

I'm painting the room I store all my old CDRs in and my stuff scattered in various boxes all over the place so I can't dig out the original if I even still have it or can find it.

Seems it has been repeatedly fucked with as there are now two fucked up sets and three different text files/lineages.

Shallowed
06-26-2014, 05:47 PM
The "twinkling" is referring to the aliasing of the MP3 artefacts, isn't it? It sounds like it's been badly encoded over and over again.

magikarp99
06-26-2014, 06:19 PM
That twinkling is not due to MP3 encoding. It is due to heavy noise reduction.

John Mulhausen ran the noise reduction. He got his copy direct from Onica, the girl who got it direct from Courtney Love.

Later, after she heard how bad the NR was, she let me take a crack at it, and she sent me her original tape. I am pretty sure I spun it off to DAT so I had a master copy to work from. (My NR was shit as well, but I don't remember how it compared to Mulhausen's.)

...


My recollection is that the original source tape is almost unlistenable. The heavy noise reduction was necessary because there is a monsterous hiss on the recording. I think we speculated at the time that it's either a heavily generated copy or there was a connection problem when the dub was made.

I am pretty sure my version wasn't circulated. It was between Onica and me. I may have made one or two copies, but it wasn't general knowledge that I had gotten the tape as well. I likely still have my NR copy, I'll try and find that and post it. That will be easier than the DAT, because all my CDs are in one giant box. My DATs are scattered throughout my house.

The deep backstory on this tape is it was originally part of a project called 'Vast Records'. There was some girl in Seattle whose name escapes me who had this little homemade record label. It was really just a vanity press, but this was around 95-96, where CDR technology was just becoming affordable, so she was looking to make CDs of hard to find stuff.

There was a group of people (you'd probably call them hoarders now) who had rare material they wanted archived in CDR format, so it was proposed that we all pool our material, get Vast to burn CDs, and distribute all the material among the group. In most cases, lots of stuff was proposed but very little of it actually ended up being produced.

...

- Onica provided Sequence 4, but to my knowledge it was never 'officially' pressed to CD for the members. By the time Mulhausen finished it the group had disbanded. I'm pretty sure John made his own CDs for people. I never had one, myself.

...

Back to Seq4-- as far as I know, both circulating copies were John's. He initially posted a handful of downgraded tracks anonymously, and a while later released the whole thing.

I was looking for my Seq 4 edit on CD tonight and couldn't find it, but I located a box of DATs, and Sequence 4 raw is among the ones in there.

...


Quotes cut down to only sections regarding Sequence IV. But it's all worth a full read.

http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=167676

Rider
06-27-2014, 06:17 AM
I think the twinkle is due to the fact that it has been run through lossy digital editing processes multiple times, at least twice that we know of on the version with the twinkle. So basically it's been edited and renecncoded who knows how many times.

When this first came up I was really really good at spectrum analysis. I could open a file look at the spectrum and pretty much tell you the history of that file. I don't remember anything particular about this except for the fact that it was a total mystery looking at it's plot, it was MP3 but it was ugly.

I mentioned this in chat in the hub and I don't remember who it was but the person who had done the most recent round of digital fuckery on this just out of the blue happened to be on the hub and admitted they did it and promised to give me the version they had before they messed with it.

That was 14 years ago.

magikarp99
06-27-2014, 07:06 AM
The twinkle effect is a typical artifact of noise reduction. Essentially, when performing noise reduction, you identify the frequencies of the noise and reduce the volume of these frequencies across the recording in order eliminate it. However, the frequency of the noise often overlaps with the frequencies of the actual audio signal, this is especially common with high frequency sounds such as cymbals, and the problem is even worse when the noise levels are high. The result is that twinkling sound.

When dealing with so much background noise it is impossible to eliminate it without introducing these other (worse) issues. Often a compromise is the best solution, instead of eliminating the noise, you simply reduce its volume. The remaining noise is sometimes enough to mask these artifacts, but make the recording easier to listen to.

That said, there is a good chance the recording did go through some sort of lossy compression. The twinkling artifact is not enough to indicate this though.

magikarp99
06-27-2014, 07:15 AM
Rider!

http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/

I'm bored so I figured I'd post my bootlist it's still a work in progress have about another 200-300 shows to add to it.

http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=68743

Do you still have those tracks from the Spun soundtrack in FLAC?
https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203624/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/54111.html


Zwan - Spun Sound Track
Album
Performer/Composer Zwan
Format FLAC
Artist for Bootleg List Zwan
Index 2236
Flawless Copy No
Filing Category dvd 013
Track List
Personal

Details
Spars ????
Bootleg No
Lineage CDA > WAV > FLAC
Sound Stereo
Notes
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPUN Movie Soundtrack Promo

Source : Promo Soundtrack CD of "SPUN" Movie
Lineage: CDA > WAV > FLAC
Used software : CDex Ver1.51
FLAC-1.1.0
FLACDrop
================================================== ===============================
!!!!! DO NOT SELL !!!!!
================================================== ===============================
I ripped off 3 songs from the original CD.

01. Freedom Ain't What It Used To Be (Inst) (Djali Zwan)
02. Love To Love (Djali Zwan - UFO Cover)
03. Always (Djali Zwan - Patsy Cline Cover)
* Noises were came from original CD.

Original CD's Track list:

01. The Number Of The Beast (Djali Zwan)
02. Freedom Ain't What It Used To Be (Djali Zwan)
03. Dr.Feelgood (Motley Crue)
04. Spun (Blonde from Fargo)
05. Destroyer Of Worlds (Bathory)
06. Junkie (Ozzy Osbourne)
07. Magnification (Yes)
08. Drive (Halford)
09. Circles (Peter Stomare)
10. Nobody's Fault (Phantom Planet)
11. Love To Love (Djali Zwan - UFO Cover)
12. Always (Djali Zwan - Patsy Cline Cover)
13. Instant Repeater '99 (The Soundtrack Of Our Lives)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't think these circulate in FLAC at the moment, so it would be great if you would share.

Rider
06-27-2014, 07:49 AM
Rider!


http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=68743

Do you still have those tracks from the Spun soundtrack in FLAC?
https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203624/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/54111.html


Zwan - Spun Sound Track
Album
Performer/Composer Zwan
Format FLAC
Artist for Bootleg List Zwan
Index 2236
Flawless Copy No
Filing Category dvd 013
Track List
Personal

Details
Spars ????
Bootleg No
Lineage CDA > WAV > FLAC
Sound Stereo
Notes
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPUN Movie Soundtrack Promo

Source : Promo Soundtrack CD of "SPUN" Movie
Lineage: CDA > WAV > FLAC
Used software : CDex Ver1.51
FLAC-1.1.0
FLACDrop
================================================== ===============================
!!!!! DO NOT SELL !!!!!
================================================== ===============================
I ripped off 3 songs from the original CD.

01. Freedom Ain't What It Used To Be (Inst) (Djali Zwan)
02. Love To Love (Djali Zwan - UFO Cover)
03. Always (Djali Zwan - Patsy Cline Cover)
* Noises were came from original CD.

Original CD's Track list:

01. The Number Of The Beast (Djali Zwan)
02. Freedom Ain't What It Used To Be (Djali Zwan)
03. Dr.Feelgood (Motley Crue)
04. Spun (Blonde from Fargo)
05. Destroyer Of Worlds (Bathory)
06. Junkie (Ozzy Osbourne)
07. Magnification (Yes)
08. Drive (Halford)
09. Circles (Peter Stomare)
10. Nobody's Fault (Phantom Planet)
11. Love To Love (Djali Zwan - UFO Cover)
12. Always (Djali Zwan - Patsy Cline Cover)
13. Instant Repeater '99 (The Soundtrack Of Our Lives)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't think these circulate in FLAC at the moment, so it would be great if you would share.


I'm sure they are burned somewhere. Whether they can be found and if found are on disk that is still readable that is doubtful.

Rider
06-27-2014, 07:51 AM
just noticed that my long gone DVD index is intact on that so knowing it is on DVD 013 makes chances higher, again if it's readable or not still a question. Been having bad luck with that lately, these should be on one giant spindle though so odds a slightly better.

CrabbMan
06-27-2014, 04:21 PM
Well hopefully community seeded torrents can outlive CD-R shelf-life.

Rider
06-27-2014, 07:02 PM
I might have other Zwan stuff that has fallen out of rotation. I grabbed basically everything even at the point where everyone else stopped caring.

The only stuff I never had were some of those last shows that it seems no one recorded or were only recorded by Quinto and never circulated.

magikarp99
06-27-2014, 07:04 PM
Yeah. I was just looking at your list. You definitely have some stuff there that isn't circulating any more.

SPLRA is broken at the moment though, so I can only compare against my own collection.

marrs-guitar
06-28-2014, 11:17 AM
I've got a speed corrected version (self-created) of the MCIS Rough Mix sourced from bmaromar's tape that I'll seed on zomb

It didn't fit to ZOMB's guidelines for sharing there unfortunately, so I've upped it to a hosting account.

http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost.php?p=4071865&postcount=2

magikarp99
06-28-2014, 12:24 PM
If we really want to do speed correction, the lossless way to do this is to change the file to use a non-standard sampling rate.
That's how I've done it (if I understand you correctly).

It didn't fit to ZOMB's guidelines for sharing there unfortunately, so I've upped it to a hosting account.

http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost.php?p=4071865&postcount=2

Thanks :)

Just so you know, this wasn't done losslessly.

magikarp99
06-30-2014, 04:22 PM
I might have other Zwan stuff that has fallen out of rotation. I grabbed basically everything even at the point where everyone else stopped caring.

The only stuff I never had were some of those last shows that it seems no one recorded or were only recorded by Quinto and never circulated.

Here is a list of other content that has fallen out of rotation. It would be great if you would upload these if you find the time.

2001-12-13 early - Index 2173 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203115/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53897.html
2001-12-14 late - Index 2170/2174 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203100/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53886.html https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203121/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53899.html
2002-04-05 DVD
2002-12-11 - Index 2168 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203050/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53879.html
2002-12-12 - Index 2139 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012202824/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53783.html
2002-12-15 - Index 2141 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012202835/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53789.html
2003-02-05 - Index 2212 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203422/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/54025.html
2003-03-25 VCD - Index 2159 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203005/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53847.html

Zwan Much Music VCD? - Index 2166 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081211114148/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53871.html

I think 2003-03-25 might be missing from SPLRA, and the Zwan Much Music VCD may be this http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Zwan2002-12-18

Okay. I just found a load of old files, including that Spun OST in FLAC. I'll review what I have and revise the list.

Edit: On review, I only had the Spun OST, and 2003-02-15 CD:UK VCD.

amayain
06-30-2014, 07:15 PM
Just wanted to jump in and say a giant preemptive thank you for putting this all together. I have so many shitty versions of half of these tapes and would love to just download it all as one package with the best versions. So, thanks for doing this.

bonnieprince
06-30-2014, 10:39 PM
Here is a list of other content that has fallen out of rotation. It would be great if you would upload these if you find the time.

2001-12-13 early - Index 2173 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203115/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53897.html
2001-12-14 late - Index 2170/2174 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203100/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53886.html https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203121/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53899.html
2002-04-05 DVD
2002-12-11 - Index 2168 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203050/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53879.html
2002-12-12 - Index 2139 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012202824/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53783.html
2002-12-15 - Index 2141 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012202835/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53789.html
2003-02-05 - Index 2212 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203422/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/54025.html
2003-03-25 VCD - Index 2159 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203005/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53847.html

Zwan Much Music VCD? - Index 2166 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081211114148/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53871.html

I think 2003-03-25 might be missing from SPLRA, and the Zwan Much Music VCD may be this http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Zwan2002-12-18

Okay. I just found a load of old files, including that Spun OST in FLAC. I'll review what I have and revise the list.

Edit: On review, I only had the Spun OST, and 2003-02-15 CD:UK VCD.

You have the Spun soundtrack in FLAC? I thought the only copy circulating is the 128k mp3 source. (With distortion in Jesus, I around 3:21 making it un-listenable.)

I was part of the triple tree, and I have the sacred and profane tour comp somewhere, I will look for it. Worst case scenario, you could piece it back together from the full soundboards of the May 2000 shows.

bonnieprince
06-30-2014, 10:40 PM
Also: a big thank you to everyone for putting this together. I have long since lost my FLAC and SHN copies.

slunken
06-30-2014, 10:54 PM
Here is a list of other content that has fallen out of rotation. It would be great if you would upload these if you find the time.

2001-12-14 late - Index 2170/2174 - https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203100/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53886.html https://web.archive.org/web/20081012203121/http://home.cfl.rr.com/zwan/details/53899.html

holy smokes i KNEW there was another once-circulating copy of this show. i even made a thread about it once. http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=167771&highlight=zwan

i would kill to have the other source, as its the one i remember having first and i was at the show so this recording is the one tied to my memory.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-01-2014, 02:39 AM
I was part of the triple tree, and I have the sacred and profane tour comp somewhere, I will look for it. Worst case scenario, you could piece it back together from the full soundboards of the May 2000 shows.

worst case scenario, i could just rip the cd i have. (there would be absolutely no point in reassembling this.)
but ideally, we'd like to locate the set of shn files that was shared originally.

magikarp99
07-01-2014, 04:17 AM
You have the Spun soundtrack in FLAC? I thought the only copy circulating is the 128k mp3 source. (With distortion in Jesus, I around 3:21 making it un-listenable.)

There is no 128kbps MP3 source, the source you are referring to were AAC M4As. Any MP3s were transcoded from them.

The FLAC source I have is only for three songs, and has horrendous noise, making it much worse than these M4As. The ripper claims this is how it is on the CD, but he didn't use EAC, so I think it is more likely it was poorly ripped.


I was part of the triple tree, and I have the sacred and profane tour comp somewhere, I will look for it. Worst case scenario, you could piece it back together from the full soundboards of the May 2000 shows.

worst case scenario, i could just rip the cd i have. (there would be absolutely no point in reassembling this.)
but ideally, we'd like to locate the set of shn files that was shared originally.

I have located the files that were used to burn the CDs for the RTS tree. There are some differences in the fingerprints.

I may have the original files for Triple Tree too, I need to check.

I will post an update on the status of everything later.

Rider
07-01-2014, 09:32 AM
So has anyone figured out the realities of doing this. Where is this stuff going to be hosted. We need a server or a seed box. If we just do plan old normal torrents this stuff will just fall out circulation again.

If we ever get a server I could simply up my entire collection there.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-01-2014, 10:14 AM
If we just do plan old normal torrents this stuff will just fall out circulation again.

i thought this was the plan.

Rider
07-01-2014, 10:25 AM
i thought this was the plan.

If that's the plan and there are no permanent seeds anywhere then it's doomed to be a lot of work to create a ton of dead links.

I could just up all this stuff to TTD but next week half if not more of them will be unseeded.

marrs-guitar
07-01-2014, 11:10 AM
does anyone have the originally shared files for "sacred and profane tour soundboard compilation"?

Yes, just checked through my stuff and I have these.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-01-2014, 11:12 AM
all right!

magikarp99
07-01-2014, 11:40 AM
There is no 128kbps MP3 source, the source you are referring to were AAC M4As. Any MP3s were transcoded from them.

The FLAC source I have is only for three songs, and has horrendous noise, making it much worse than these M4As. The ripper claims this is how it is on the CD, but he didn't use EAC, so I think it is more likely it was poorly ripped.


.

houseofglass11
07-01-2014, 03:15 PM
Mulhausen was one pompous geek.

magikarp99
07-02-2014, 07:00 AM
Yes, just checked through my stuff and I have these.

Okay, I have RTS tree files, but I'm not confident that the Triple Tree files I have are the source SHN files used to burn the CDs.

Are you sure this is what you have, because that is excellent if you do! :) Do you just have Sacred and Profane, or do you have the original SHNs for Gravity Demos and FAEOMM too?

marrs-guitar
07-02-2014, 07:58 AM
Okay, I have RTS tree files, but I'm not confident that the Triple Tree files I have are the source SHN files used to burn the CDs.

Are you sure this is what you have, because that is excellent if you do! :)

On reflection I'm unsure about some of the details; I personally did not participate on either tree, but I have Scared&Profane SHN files (+MD5 signatures) with this accompanying text file:

VARIOUS SACRED + PROFANE PERFORMANCES


SBD>DAT>CDR
72:56

tracklist:
1. Rock On [Essex cover]
2. The Everlasting Gaze
3. Pug
4. Glass and the Ghost Children
5. Age of Innocence
6. I of the Mourning
7. Tonight, Tonight
8. To Sheila
9. This Time
10. Snail
11. Fuck You
12. Raindrops + Sunshowers
13. Heavy Metal Machine
14. Bullet with Butterfly Wings
15. Once in a Lifetime [Talking Heads cover]


NOTES: tracks 6 and 12 from 5-13-00 Aerial Theater, Houston TX
tracks 4, 5, 8, 10 and 11 from 5-14-00 Music Hall, Austin TX
tracks 1, 2, 3, 7, 9, 13, 14 and 15 from 5-24-00 Berkeley
Community Theatre, Berkeley CA

for those lucky original 250 people who were included to
receive copies of Billy's Gravity Demos I and Friends and Enemies of
Modern Music, an additional cd of *soundboard* performances from
several Sacred + Profane Tour shows was included. Billy requested
that only "good shows" be put on this cd. :)

magikarp99
07-02-2014, 08:02 AM
Cool. I have a copy with the following text file:


Jason Briggeman's Triple Tree Soundboard Compilation

1. Rock On (24)
2. The Everlasting Gaze (24)
3. Pug (24)
4. Glass And The Ghost Children (14)
5. Age Of Innocence (14)
6. Tonight, Tonight (24)
7. I Of The Mourning (13)
8. To Sheila (14)
9. This Time (24)
10. Snail (14)
11. Fuck You (An Ode To No One) (14)
12. Raindrops + Sunshowers (13)
13. Heavy Metal Machine (24)
14. Bullet With Butterfly Wings (24)
15. Once In A Lifetime (24)

Tracks taken from:
(13) 2000/05/13 Aerial Theater, Houston, TX, US
(14) 2000/05/14 Music Hall, Austin, TX, US
(24) 2000/05/24 Berkeley Community Theatre, Berkeley, CA, US


SHN fingerprints are:


3339da33f86fc814420110e4e4070e3e [shntool] 01 - 2000.05.24 - Rock On.shn
7c77c56cab5c66e984892cdb712a9527 [shntool] 02 - 2000.05.24 - The Everlasting Gaze.shn
0c2eab0a1e6fc3fbd278b0eb02e88415 [shntool] 03 - 2000.05.24 - Pug.shn
158d25863de724f2081861360e84dc3e [shntool] 04 - 2000.05.14 - Glass And The Ghost Children.shn
ed4a90310df0049651807668d9f4caf3 [shntool] 05 - 2000.05.14 - Age Of Innocence.shn
764db316b54857509188ac5d06efc94e [shntool] 06 - 2000.05.24 - I Of The Mourning.shn
5e5b8971af571e14511c27ec1dda07b4 [shntool] 07 - 2000.05.13 - Tonight, Tonight.shn
cbad91ef4ac2c4b3743c28665315e6e1 [shntool] 08 - 2000.05.14 - To Sheila.shn
d0ce03916bdb38af0a421f5f0b4d8046 [shntool] 09 - 2000.05.24 - This Time.shn
21681034eeac3a7cc0bd64b81514feb5 [shntool] 10 - 2000.05.14 - Snail.shn
b422f0e35f55ae5542f912ed60810df7 [shntool] 11 - 2000.05.14 - Fuck You (An Ode To No One).shn
bf548e45ac2c8230177961de7290d7a5 [shntool] 12 - 2000.05.13 - Raindrops + Sunshowers.shn
496c921cda9c9175cd49f4a035d5c4bd [shntool] 13 - 2000.05.24 - Heavy Metal Machine.shn
d465d6152bd5d88080810e3e663543b2 [shntool] 14 - 2000.05.24 - Bullet With Butterfly Wings.shn
4faf87a4f8bf2178abd26b5ffcef91ea [shntool] 15 - 2000.05.24 - Once In A Lifetime.shn


What are yours?

marrs-guitar
07-02-2014, 08:39 AM
What are yours?


1f2ee19a8824542cb18fa2db1d83ce41 *S+Pcomp_t01_20000524_Rock_On.shn
db16720cccd51b7847d63d6bed32eafb *S+Pcomp_t02_20000524_The_Everlasting_Gaze.shn
7a31522a771dbc1593fd7525c88695f1 *S+Pcomp_t03_20000524_Pug.shn
6180d9d3ea07cab703b2f8a71030e095 *S+Pcomp_t04_20000514_Glass_and_the_Ghost_Children-Blissed_and.shn
c8a02af812c0e95cc795278263a39c36 *S+Pcomp_t05_20000514_Age_of_Innocence.shn
894e2be30bce186c1c37292ac7de62dc *S+Pcomp_t06_20000513_I_of_the_Mourning.shn
df219859d5bc9c95df708f215eda0c53 *S+Pcomp_t07_20000524_Tonight,_Tonight.shn
cb9841bb6744b60ffb8f8a7260f31dc7 *S+Pcomp_t08_20000514_To_Shiela.shn
9b127053331ccc1333ddd94c603b3851 *S+Pcomp_t09_20000524_This_Time.shn
f00d6fe1ff6d0adabe36af01bcae6421 *S+Pcomp_t10_20000514_Snail.shn
5553e8b5ea90fc3d4fa885a09b34a4c2 *S+Pcomp_t11_20000514_Fuck_You.shn
6bf07f13b6c015975c55b382f7c4b700 *S+Pcomp_t12_20000513_Raindrops_+_Sunshowers.shn
32d0265c3488fd6f7fe78d02df1de57e *S+Pcomp_t13_20000524_Heavy_Metal_Machine.shn
b113ddbadff13cb5b6f5f7732b356b46 *S+Pcomp_t14_20000524_Bullet_With_Butterfly_Wings. shn
5bac28f657841000a1e576db1f7a3972 *S+Pcomp_t15_20000524_Once_In_a_Lifetime.shn

...

magikarp99
07-02-2014, 08:51 AM
1f2ee19a8824542cb18fa2db1d83ce41 *S+Pcomp_t01_20000524_Rock_On.shn
db16720cccd51b7847d63d6bed32eafb *S+Pcomp_t02_20000524_The_Everlasting_Gaze.shn
7a31522a771dbc1593fd7525c88695f1 *S+Pcomp_t03_20000524_Pug.shn
6180d9d3ea07cab703b2f8a71030e095 *S+Pcomp_t04_20000514_Glass_and_the_Ghost_Children-Blissed_and.shn
c8a02af812c0e95cc795278263a39c36 *S+Pcomp_t05_20000514_Age_of_Innocence.shn
894e2be30bce186c1c37292ac7de62dc *S+Pcomp_t06_20000513_I_of_the_Mourning.shn
df219859d5bc9c95df708f215eda0c53 *S+Pcomp_t07_20000524_Tonight,_Tonight.shn
cb9841bb6744b60ffb8f8a7260f31dc7 *S+Pcomp_t08_20000514_To_Shiela.shn
9b127053331ccc1333ddd94c603b3851 *S+Pcomp_t09_20000524_This_Time.shn
f00d6fe1ff6d0adabe36af01bcae6421 *S+Pcomp_t10_20000514_Snail.shn
5553e8b5ea90fc3d4fa885a09b34a4c2 *S+Pcomp_t11_20000514_Fuck_You.shn
6bf07f13b6c015975c55b382f7c4b700 *S+Pcomp_t12_20000513_Raindrops_+_Sunshowers.shn
32d0265c3488fd6f7fe78d02df1de57e *S+Pcomp_t13_20000524_Heavy_Metal_Machine.shn
b113ddbadff13cb5b6f5f7732b356b46 *S+Pcomp_t14_20000524_Bullet_With_Butterfly_Wings. shn
5bac28f657841000a1e576db1f7a3972 *S+Pcomp_t15_20000524_Once_In_a_Lifetime.shn

...

Judging by the format, those are the MD5 sums of the files, not the audio content. Do you have Traders little helper or SHNtool installed?

marrs-guitar
07-02-2014, 09:10 AM
If I did that correctly...

d7bae7247f0646406428a11ec9414049 [shntool] S+Pcomp_t01_20000524_Rock_On.shn
597f46de4ce4db4b15ea1d97d09c37b0 [shntool] S+Pcomp_t02_20000524_The_Everlasting_Gaze.shn
5b94393e99da4b19f79e13d9234aa6d2 [shntool] S+Pcomp_t03_20000524_Pug.shn
358f4be3b02820203ccc7ec4c9ea5403 [shntool] S+Pcomp_t04_20000514_Glass_and_the_Ghost_Children-Blissed_and.shn
d3a5c4a8e4476c3ec2287882837caebe [shntool] S+Pcomp_t05_20000514_Age_of_Innocence.shn
14e9bd1ede9adf55b9b94f1930acf9d7 [shntool] S+Pcomp_t06_20000513_I_of_the_Mourning.shn
df36893f838a0e302d4d262ef6be1c4b [shntool] S+Pcomp_t07_20000524_Tonight,_Tonight.shn
a5c199c9dc62764a9c245ffcae81759f [shntool] S+Pcomp_t08_20000514_To_Shiela.shn
557dc15ca0ad6b2b5cc5c065d465f4db [shntool] S+Pcomp_t09_20000524_This_Time.shn
0aa700d1cfd04e83c3454b9fb3cd374f [shntool] S+Pcomp_t10_20000514_Snail.shn
daf3abf98691a103078a4886334a6569 [shntool] S+Pcomp_t11_20000514_Fuck_You.shn
68f1cb5cb50e26f83bd383d27d72d7ae [shntool] S+Pcomp_t12_20000513_Raindrops_+_Sunshowers.shn
fc9d2c0a84830bbde120742bea0d15c1 [shntool] S+Pcomp_t13_20000524_Heavy_Metal_Machine.shn
1f977b49dc80d3b23ad9427296714f0d [shntool] S+Pcomp_t14_20000524_Bullet_With_Butterfly_Wings.s hn
4d4c5bf02d80b0e69b062b90a5616e52 [shntool] S+Pcomp_t15_20000524_Once_In_a_Lifetime.shn

Cool As Ice Cream
07-02-2014, 10:12 AM
no match :(

bonnieprince
07-02-2014, 11:19 PM
If a torrent is created, would it be on a private tracker? I have a seedbox, and could seed indefinitely.

magikarp99
07-03-2014, 01:06 PM
I think the plan at the moment is to use multiple public trackers, and just hope people commit to seeding.

This content could of course also be put on a private tracker, but the good ones impose their own restrictions on content. We may get away with lots of this on What. I can't remember what the current policy is.

bonnieprince
07-04-2014, 05:27 AM
Most of the demos / tapes are there already, but they are either the thirteen "remastered" versions or lack source / generation info.

magikarp99
07-04-2014, 05:47 AM
Most of the demos / tapes are there already, but they are either the thirteen "remastered" versions or lack source / generation info.

This is why we are doing this.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-04-2014, 07:06 AM
and also because torrents on zomb, for example, have tracks removed, because they're "officially released".

Shallowed
07-04-2014, 09:47 AM
What shall the collection be called? The RRSPAA?

Rider
07-04-2014, 03:28 PM
What I'm thinking I'll end up doing is I'll just dump everything I have that is still readable on to my server, then I'll let one or two people in to grab whatever they want that's not in circulation. I'll leave this up for a few weeks or until I need the hard drive for something.

I have plenty of upload speed.

I'm also willing to just do a massive upload onto a ftp somewhere. Again transfers speeds are not an issue for me.

slunken
07-04-2014, 07:59 PM
Is that alt 12-14-2002 emerson late show still readable? I would love to grab that anytime.

magikarp99
07-05-2014, 04:44 AM
What I'm thinking I'll end up doing is I'll just dump everything I have that is still readable on to my server, then I'll let one or two people in to grab whatever they want that's not in circulation. I'll leave this up for a few weeks or until I need the hard drive for something.

I have plenty of upload speed.

I'm also willing to just do a massive upload onto a ftp somewhere. Again transfers speeds are not an issue for me.

That would be great, I'm sure. I'd be happy to grab what's not in circulation and recirculate on ZOMB.

magikarp99
07-05-2014, 05:44 AM
Update. Bold means I have the best circulating source, bold and italics means someone else in this thread has it.

Pumpkins list:
Adore Demos II: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Quiet And Other Songs: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Adore Demos I: CD-R on Ebay in 2000, bought and treed via CD-Rs
Gravity Demos: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Machina Acoustic Demos: Billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich -> whoever released it
Mashed Potatoes: < 10 CDs distributed by Billy. Eventually uploaded to the Hub in full as SHN; inferior partial copy from ANA circulates, owned by Simon Coyle
MCIS Demos I: <del>RTS tree; (Billy's Home Demos bootleg is supposedly an inferior copy)</del> Does this exist outside Billy's home demos?
MCIS Demos II: Appeared on Ebay in 2000, circulates as ANA-L > DAT0 > CDR-0 > SHN
MCIS Demos III: ANA > DAT > CD-R <del>(inferior version was part of RTS tree)</del> This was on RTS tree
Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ANA > SHN??
Reel Time Sessions: STU>DDC-1>SHN
Sequence IV: Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > John Mulhausen (applied NR) > CD-R / SHN
Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > Dave Asselin DAT (uncirculated)
Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
MCIS Rough Mixes: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing
666 Tape: PRO > VID-2 > CD-R
Nothing Ever Changes: <del>Ana-L>CDR-M>Cool-Edit>CDR-M (Asselin)>CDR-2>SHN</del> Unknown lineage copy with much better frequency response
Gish Basement Tape: On Pisces Iscariot reissue. Also on Pumpkin Seeds bootleg, did this circulate in any other form? Do we have a copy direct from the ANA?
3 Songs O' Rarities: VID>SHN Psycho tape rip
Gish Rough Mix: ANAM (studio)>ana (cassette)>DAT>DC1>CDR
Sacred + Profane SBD Compilation: Triple tree , in need of copy with good lineage
TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is an ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
TSP Officially Released Demo Tape Rip: Released ANA tape rip
Moon Officially Released Demo Tape Rip: Released ANA tape rip - I have the one on What, is this the best?
Drown 8-Track Demo: SPRC
Drown Demo Tape: (is this the best source? ignoring SPRC) promo cassette>ANAx>CDRx>remaster>CDR2>WAV>FLAC
Ignoffo Tape: STU>ANA-2>DATM
Pistachio Medley MP3(s?): ???>MP3 - that In the Arms of Sheep MP3

666 Tape Vid: MTV Employee > Don Dowdy VHS(-0/1 presumably) > DVD
Psycho Tape / AKA 25 Songs O' Pumpkins Vid: 2 disc version
Fruit Bat Salad Vol. 1 Vid: AUD VHS(3)>Standalone DVD>DVDr(3)
Fruit Bat Salad Vol. 2 Vid: AUD VHS(3)>Unknown>DVDr(3)

Zwan list:
Premasters: Leaked, and then shared en mass via FTP on netphoria
Rough mixes: Leaked, and then shared en mass via FTP on netphoria
SPUN OST: M4A and terrible FLAC rip

Billy Corgan list:
TheFutureEmbrace Premaster???: CD>MP3 Dubious, do we want to incIude this?

The Marked list:
The Marked Demo Recordings Mar 85 - Jan 87: ???
The Marked Aug '86: uncertain lineage (possibly ANA-2 > CDR-?)
The Marked Sept - Oct '86: ???
The Marked Attic Rehearsal (1986): ???
The Marked Joliet Tape: I have (ANA-1>CDR) CDR-4, it looks like there is an ANA-1>CDR-M circulating though
The Marked unknown tape: ???

So what we currently need is:

Gravity Demos with good lineage
FAEOMM with good lineage
Sacred + Profane SBD tour comp with good lineage
MCIS Demos I - we don't even have a good commerical bootleg rip of this. Does a non-commercial source exist?
Rips of TSP and Moon official demo tape releases
Drown demo tape rip
Gish Basement Tape - does this exist outside the Pumpkin Seeds bootleg?
Psycho Tape 2 Disc DVD (can't find my copy)
MSOTS Rough mixes
MSOTS Premasters
Spun OST M4As (can't find all of them)
All of the Marked demos

Is there anything else we're missing on these lists?
Do we want to incIude that awful Spun FLAC rip? I say we omit it.
What about the dubious TFE MP3 "premaster"? I say we omit this too.

Rider
07-06-2014, 06:13 AM
Is that alt 12-14-2002 emerson late show still readable? I would love to grab that anytime.

Won't know. Still have my entire office in boxes in the living room so it will be at least a week probably closer to a month before I can start digging through the old binders and stacks.

slunken
07-06-2014, 10:30 AM
Cool. No rush. I'm just happy to confirm i wasnt imagining things.

magikarp99
07-10-2014, 10:41 AM
Okay, let's get the ball rolling again. Does anyone have a rip of the Pisces Iscariot bonus TSP demo tape?

Edit: Oh these were released digitally too, nice, I missed that.

magikarp99
07-10-2014, 11:10 AM
So yeah the web release clips a lot. A cassette rip would still be nice.

CrabbMan
07-10-2014, 02:58 PM
I've got the cassette, but not a rip. Is the cassette really not on what.cd? It seems they have everything.

magikarp99
07-10-2014, 04:33 PM
I've got the cassette, but not a rip. Is the cassette really not on what.cd? It seems they have everything.

Only the digital web release.

Ramdust
07-11-2014, 03:12 PM
I'd love an all-inclusive torrent like this. There are a number of things I'm still missing from my collection.

Rider
07-12-2014, 05:00 AM
Just a heads up for those who are curious. I'm about a week away from moving everything back into my office so figure I'm about two weeks away from starting to dig through stuff.

I actually found the the giant CD binder the other night and was tempted to get out the show Slunklen wants but it's just best if I wait until I have everything in place. Plus this still leave me ample time to get everyones hopes up and pull a good ole Pmac style disappearance :cool:

redbull
07-13-2014, 08:41 PM
What I'm thinking I'll end up doing is I'll just dump everything I have that is still readable on to my server, then I'll let one or two people in to grab whatever they want that's not in circulation. I'll leave this up for a few weeks or until I need the hard drive for something.

I have plenty of upload speed.

I'm also willing to just do a massive upload onto a ftp somewhere. Again transfers speeds are not an issue for me.


happy to help with sorting this out if anyone wants. my interest is more in live stuff as opposed to demos, however

Rider
07-14-2014, 11:22 AM
happy to help with sorting this out if anyone wants. my interest is more in live stuff as opposed to demos, however

I have hardly any live TSP. Dirty little secret, I always thought TSP was a horribly boring live band.

I have or I should had literally everything circulated for Zwan though.

redbull
07-14-2014, 03:30 PM
I have hardly any live TSP. Dirty little secret, I always thought TSP was a horribly boring live band.

I have or I should had literally everything circulated for Zwan though.

I would be very interested in the live Zwan material you have...theres a whole lot of stuff that's fallen out of circulation in the past ten years.

if you still have a trade list of some kind i'd be happy to look through it and save you from uploading redundant recordings...

Rider
07-14-2014, 03:41 PM
like I said I had literally everything. I even had stuff that never went into circulation. People started getting into the bad of habit of thinking it was a race to get stuff up on the hub so towards the end of my time there I was checking stuff for errors before it could get spread. There was way to much stuff people were throwing out there that was full of fuck ups.

This was another thing that in a tiny way contributed to me throwing in the towel. People bitching up a storm if a show wasn't available within 48 hours and tapers trying to prove something by being the first one to get stuff online.

And after all of that work and needless drama all of the stuff just fell out of circulation anyway.

redbull
07-14-2014, 03:55 PM
like I said I had literally everything. I even had stuff that never went into circulation. People started getting into the bad of habit of thinking it was a race to get stuff up on the hub so towards the end of my time there I was checking stuff for errors before it could get spread. There was way to much stuff people were throwing out there that was full of fuck ups.
I can definitely emphasize with this as a taper, makes me glad I don't tape too many major artists. the threads on dime turn into a shark tank / pissing contests...

magikarp99
07-15-2014, 03:44 PM
Looking forward to this rider.

Shallowed
07-15-2014, 08:18 PM
Was this (Crying Tree of Mercury piano version) ever made available in lossless?

http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost.php?p=4077017&postcount=17

redbull
07-16-2014, 01:30 AM
Was this (Crying Tree of Mercury piano version) ever made available in lossless?

http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost.php?p=4077017&postcount=17

no, it originated from the BC myspace in late 06 or early 07, iirc it is a direct rip and not a transcode though

magikarp99
07-16-2014, 05:07 AM
no, it originated from the BC myspace in late 06 or early 07, iirc it is a direct rip and not a transcode though

What else do we have from the BC MySpace?

There's HMM Alt. Mix.

.

redbull
07-16-2014, 10:54 AM
What else do we have from the BC MySpace?

There's HMM Alt. Mix.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/q0039v

Lonesome Day Blues from 2002/10/21 Hideout

just these three tracks, I think

magikarp99
07-22-2014, 10:43 AM
Lonesome Day Blues from 2002/10/21 Hideout

just these three tracks, I think

Thanks for the info.


So although we don't have the lineage we want on all the content at the moment, let's proceed with what we do have.

Next issue is, how do we want things tagged for these releases?

Track number and artist are straight forward. Do we want song titles tagged as they are on the source?

Rider
07-24-2014, 08:44 AM
So office is done and I'm in the process of moving stuff back in right now. I have two days of DVD ripping and encoding ahead of me then I should be able to start digging through disks I haven't touched in 10-12 years. Fuck I'm old.

Rider
07-24-2014, 03:58 PM
just hurry up with this shit. i'm giving you 48 hours.

see then this asshole shows up.

Rider
07-24-2014, 04:17 PM
Yeah guess what project on hold for probably the rest of forever.

http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?p=4079459&posted=1#post4079459

I have a mountain of other shit I need to do for myself. Really I get nothing out of doing this stuff, nothing.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 02:15 AM
ha

waz
07-25-2014, 03:43 AM
like Rider, i have a shit ton of cds from years of trading, do any of you know if there are programs that will tell me in a cd i have was made from mp3 recordings? i remember a few but cant remember any names of them. I think one told you something like dynamic range to give you an idea, or am i way off?

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 04:16 AM
you can check if audio if lossy using frequency analysis and spectral analysis.
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4288
http://blowfish.be/eac/Spectral/spectral.html

i'm afraid your shit ton of cds won't be of much interest though. unless you've got some things that can't be found anywhere else.
it's just that sources without the extra cd-r in the lineage will be preferred, as well as sources with a known source and lineage. considering how you're not even sure if a cd is mp3 sourced for some of your cds, i can imagine source and lineage are a question mark too.

check out these posts/threads - maybe you have some of these:
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=181134
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=179805
http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost.php?p=3692250&postcount=431

waz
07-25-2014, 06:43 AM
most of my cd-r's from trading days have lineage printed out and attached to each of the cd cases, and all of my shn/flac files from traders den and Zomb, or the good old pumpkind directconnect++ server still have md5 checks and txt files, i even think i have a BOOTLIST i had in Excel, lol which had audio info. i was just in the the process of getting rid of any crappy shows i have, and comparing them to whats on the archive and what not, as some of the discs were from the days of sprc.org or whatever that old site was with heaps of shit on it.

i just thought with sites that offer free online storage, it might be an idea to get the best quality demos up there, to have people from resorting to mp3's., not a massive task, i dont think there are many demo tapes.

just food for thought.... mmm food.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-25-2014, 07:35 AM
all right then.
i just thought with sites that offer free online storage, it might be an idea to get the best quality demos up there, to have people from resorting to mp3's., not a massive task, i dont think there are many demo tapes.

just food for thought.... mmm food.

did you actually read this thread?

magikarp99
07-25-2014, 10:11 AM
i just thought with sites that offer free online storage, it might be an idea to get the best quality demos up there, to have people from resorting to mp3's., not a massive task, i dont think there are many demo tapes.

just food for thought.... mmm food.

This is what this whole thread is about... Here is a current status update, if you have anything to contribute please do. Note that there are many demo tapes.

Update. Bold means I have the best circulating source, bold and italics means someone else in this thread has it.

Pumpkins list:
Adore Demos II: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Quiet And Other Songs: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Adore Demos I: CD-R on Ebay in 2000, bought and treed via CD-Rs
Gravity Demos: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Machina Acoustic Demos: Billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich -> whoever released it
Mashed Potatoes: < 10 CDs distributed by Billy. Eventually uploaded to the Hub in full as SHN; inferior partial copy from ANA circulates, owned by Simon Coyle
MCIS Demos I: <del>RTS tree; (Billy's Home Demos bootleg is supposedly an inferior copy)</del> Does this exist outside Billy's home demos?
MCIS Demos II: Appeared on Ebay in 2000, circulates as ANA-L > DAT0 > CDR-0 > SHN
MCIS Demos III: ANA > DAT > CD-R <del>(inferior version was part of RTS tree)</del> This was on RTS tree
Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ANA > SHN??
Reel Time Sessions: STU>DDC-1>SHN
Sequence IV: Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > John Mulhausen (applied NR) > CD-R / SHN
Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > Dave Asselin DAT (uncirculated)
Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
MCIS Rough Mixes: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing
666 Tape: PRO > VID-2 > CD-R
Nothing Ever Changes: <del>Ana-L>CDR-M>Cool-Edit>CDR-M (Asselin)>CDR-2>SHN</del> Unknown lineage copy with much better frequency response
Gish Basement Tape: On Pisces Iscariot reissue. Also on Pumpkin Seeds bootleg, did this circulate in any other form? Do we have a copy direct from the ANA?
3 Songs O' Rarities: VID>SHN Psycho tape rip
Gish Rough Mix: ANAM (studio)>ana (cassette)>DAT>DC1>CDR
Sacred + Profane SBD Compilation: Triple tree , in need of copy with good lineage
TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is an ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
TSP Officially Released Demo Tape Rip: Released ANA tape rip
Moon Officially Released Demo Tape Rip: Released ANA tape rip - I have the one on What, is this the best?
Drown 8-Track Demo: SPRC
Drown Demo Tape: (is this the best source? ignoring SPRC) promo cassette>ANAx>CDRx>remaster>CDR2>WAV>FLAC
Ignoffo Tape: STU>ANA-2>DATM
Pistachio Medley MP3(s?): ???>MP3 - that In the Arms of Sheep MP3

666 Tape Vid: MTV Employee > Don Dowdy VHS(-0/1 presumably) > DVD
Psycho Tape / AKA 25 Songs O' Pumpkins Vid: 2 disc version
Fruit Bat Salad Vol. 1 Vid: AUD VHS(3)>Standalone DVD>DVDr(3)
Fruit Bat Salad Vol. 2 Vid: AUD VHS(3)>Unknown>DVDr(3)

Zwan list:
Premasters: Leaked, and then shared en mass via FTP on netphoria
Rough mixes: Leaked, and then shared en mass via FTP on netphoria
SPUN OST: M4A and terrible FLAC rip

Billy Corgan list:
TheFutureEmbrace Premaster???: CD>MP3 Dubious, do we want to incIude this?

The Marked list:
The Marked Demo Recordings Mar 85 - Jan 87: ???
The Marked Aug '86: uncertain lineage (possibly ANA-2 > CDR-?)
The Marked Sept - Oct '86: ???
The Marked Attic Rehearsal (1986): ???
The Marked Joliet Tape: I have (ANA-1>CDR) CDR-4, it looks like there is an ANA-1>CDR-M circulating though
The Marked unknown tape: ???

So what we currently need is:

Gravity Demos with good lineage
FAEOMM with good lineage
Sacred + Profane SBD tour comp with good lineage
MCIS Demos I - we don't even have a good commerical bootleg rip of this. Does a non-commercial source exist?
Rips of TSP and Moon official demo tape releases
Drown demo tape rip
Gish Basement Tape - does this exist outside the Pumpkin Seeds bootleg?
Psycho Tape 2 Disc DVD (can't find my copy)
MSOTS Rough mixes
MSOTS Premasters
Spun OST M4As (can't find all of them)
All of the Marked demos

Is there anything else we're missing on these lists?
Do we want to incIude that awful Spun FLAC rip? I say we omit it.
What about the dubious TFE MP3 "premaster"? I say we omit this too.

waz
07-26-2014, 12:00 AM
ok cool, i understand now :)

When you say "with good lineage" shouldn't a original CD copy (CDR-M) be exactly the same even if it has been copies many times, as digital is bit of bit the same when you copy a CD? so CDR-1 or CDR-100 should be identical. or are you trying to find the originals the CD's were made from?

magikarp99
07-26-2014, 04:33 AM
ok cool, i understand now :)

When you say "with good lineage" shouldn't a original CD copy (CDR-M) be exactly the same even if it has been copies many times, as digital is bit of bit the same when you copy a CD? so CDR-1 or CDR-100 should be identical. or are you trying to find the originals the CD's were made from?

Not all ripping software is accurate, and errors can be introduced from read/write issues.
So a CDR-100 is the same as a CDR-1 as long as everyone ripped and burned their CDs properly.

Originals from which the CDs were made are even better.

waz
07-26-2014, 06:59 AM
ahh, so you are trying to track down the master/origins of what made the cd-r's, wow, sounds like digging through family tree/history. Good idea though, making it all available in the best quality.
any ideas of how it will be hosted? a free upload site, or a few different accounts in order to make the space?

waz
07-26-2014, 07:03 AM
im sure if a free account would not hold enough space, we could try asking for a few $ from a bunch of people for an account with enough space. Maybe $5.00 to join, giving you access to it all.

but these days in sure some site will have free storage with enough gigs :)

CrabbMan
07-28-2014, 01:36 PM
So what we currently need is:

Psycho Tape 2 Disc DVD (can't find my copy)



I have the files for both DVDs on my hard drive.

magikarp99
07-28-2014, 02:13 PM
im sure if a free account would not hold enough space, we could try asking for a few $ from a bunch of people for an account with enough space. Maybe $5.00 to join, giving you access to it all.

but these days in sure some site will have free storage with enough gigs :)

Files uploaded to hosting sites never last long. The current plan is to create torrents I believe. But maybe we could use some web seeds, or seed boxes or something.

I have the files for both DVDs on my hard drive.

Great. That's one more thing crossed off the list then.

CrabbMan
07-29-2014, 06:54 PM
Alright, so now we need to add lossless Machina electric demos to the list.

waz
07-29-2014, 08:06 PM
Machina electric demos??
Not sure if i have ever heard of these, ...I know the Acoustic Demos.
or is this a joke related to the current Leaks ;)
if not, any info in these/links?

CrabbMan
07-29-2014, 10:37 PM
Yeah, it's about the current leaks. but it ain't no joke! There's electric demos out there somewhere, dammit, and they ought to be part of this collection.

waz
07-29-2014, 11:04 PM
[QUOTE=magikarp99;4080467]Files uploaded to hosting sites never last long. The current plan is to create torrents I believe. But maybe we could use some web seeds, or seed boxes or something.

Shouldn't a Dropbox or similar with enough space for demos be do-able?
and shouldn't they last for as long as that account is active?

Im not fully in the know about all the forms of online storage, but files should last forever/unless you take them down.

an alternative is having several people with dropbox links with a few demos each?
or i suppose a torrent world work, but i do see a torrent being something not lasting that long, as it will need constant people seeding it.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-30-2014, 02:21 AM
dropbox/sendspace/mediafire/megaupload/what-have-you can all get contacted by the record label or a related organisation, and be asked to take the copyright protected content down.

CrabbMan
07-30-2014, 02:25 AM
Online storage sites are more susceptible to takedown notices, and they certainly don't last forever. Torrents will last as long as there are members of the community willing to seed, and as easy as it is to seed.

And I don't think it would be appropriate for there to be any money changing hands--I think it should simply be one fan sharing with another.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-30-2014, 02:51 AM
torrents are worth a shot. if it doesn't work out for some reason, we can still look at other options.
i can see it working with torrents: even if the seeds disappear at some point, a lot of people will have everything, so it shouldn't be too hard to find people to reseed, especially on here.

and if more stuff shows up, we can always add torrents to the canon.

waz
07-30-2014, 07:00 AM
yeah torrents are easy, could be best way to go. easy to re-seed, and like you said, it will easily spread better quality stuff out there. allowing for more people on here to get copies, and/or help with more seeding in future :)

so how far have we got? whats needed still, will this happen is stages? or are you waiting for 1 large torrent?

Cool As Ice Cream
07-30-2014, 07:21 AM
we're not going for one large torrent.
individual torrents are easier to handle, and apparently it's possible to pack different torrent files in a zip, for the people who want everything in one go.
the zip can always be updated once more stuff is added.

how far we've got: http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?p=4073927#post4073927

i guess we could already start with what we have. i wouldn't know how to do this magnet stuff though.

waz
07-30-2014, 08:02 AM
oh cool!,
I had a look at the list, nice stuff to start with,
Also, not sure if it helps, but I have also found on my HDD:
MSOTS Rough mixes (6 tracks)
MSOTS Premasters (8 tracks)
Both are in Wav and Flac, but have no notes on them.

and i have a bunch of the SPUN soundtrack stuff, but it all varies in quality,

Cool As Ice Cream
07-30-2014, 08:20 AM
i think i have those msots rough mixes and premasters too. will have to have a look.

magikarp99
07-30-2014, 12:20 PM
oh cool!,
I had a look at the list, nice stuff to start with,
Also, not sure if it helps, but I have also found on my HDD:
MSOTS Rough mixes (6 tracks)
MSOTS Premasters (8 tracks)
Both are in Wav and Flac, but have no notes on them.

and i have a bunch of the SPUN soundtrack stuff, but it all varies in quality,

Oh cool! I have/had those somewhere, not got them in full to hand anymore I don't think, so that's great.

The MSOTS rough mix and premaster were shared on Netphoria together over FTP, which I think is how they came into mass circulation. But, they did not come from the same source. When shared on Netphoria, I don't think they came with any sort of info or lineage.

It would be great if you could give more details on your SPUN files and the MSOTS files.

slunken
07-30-2014, 04:56 PM
Just wanted to throw something out there, regarding file sharing sites. I realize that torrenting is the preferred method (I think, from what I've read) and that file-hosting sites are generally unreliable. Is anyone familiar with google drives?

One free account gives you 15GB of storage and it would only be a matter of sharing the link(s) to the folder(s). I'm sure that, between a few different people, all the material could be shared between a few different folders. They needn't be personal google accounts either. Ones can be created specifically for this. The flakiness factor is still there - someone could shut down a folder just as easily as they could not seed.

Just an idea for an option...

CrabbMan
07-30-2014, 05:18 PM
So what is meant by "good lineage" for Gravity Demos or FAEOMM? I have files of these, but without any accompanying text files (though not from CD), is that the same as what's generally out there?

And as far as google drives or whatnot, I don't see a problem with trying it out and keeping these links up along with the magnet torrent links. The only issue is that then it becomes *somebody's* responsibility to keep them uploaded to the site, rather than *everybody's* responsibility to seed.

waz
07-30-2014, 11:36 PM
the ZWAN Rough Mixes i have are in Wav, and file names are:

zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t01
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t02
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t03
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t04
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t05
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t06

The Pre-masters are pretty much the same, in WAV also:

zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t01
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t02
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t03
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t04
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t05
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t06
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t07
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t08


I'm sure many people still have these, but if you need then like i said I have in both WAV & Flac.

as for the SPUN OST, it all stuff from a torrent ages ago, but i think Linda strawberry shared some on her site years ago, so there are clean versions out there of a handful of the tracks, but all are in mp3.

magikarp99
07-31-2014, 04:36 AM
So what is meant by "good lineage" for Gravity Demos or FAEOMM? I have files of these, but without any accompanying text files (though not from CD), is that the same as what's generally out there?

These were originally circulated as part of Triple Tree. Versions that currently circulate either have no text file, or a text file that contains no information regarding lineage. What we are looking for are either of the following: the original files used to burn the CDs (may have been shared on the hub), or an accurate rip of one of the Triple Tree CDs.

the ZWAN Rough Mixes i have are in Wav, and file names are:

zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t01
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t02
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t03
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t04
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t05
zwan2002-10-xx_rough_mixes-t06

The Pre-masters are pretty much the same, in WAV also:

zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t01
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t02
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t03
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t04
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t05
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t06
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t07
zwan2002-11-xx_pre-masters-t08


I'm sure many people still have these, but if you need then like i said I have in both WAV & Flac.

http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=37702
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=37362

These were shared here in FLAC IIRC. Do you remember where you got the WAV files from, did you transcode them yourself? I think these are the only copies that circulate en mass.


as for the SPUN OST, it all stuff from a torrent ages ago, but i think Linda strawberry shared some on her site years ago, so there are clean versions out there of a handful of the tracks, but all are in mp3.
As far as I know, most if not all of the MP3s out there are transcoded from the M4A files that got leaked (I think on Blamo). A bad rip of a Spun promo CD rip with a few tracks in FLAC is also out there, but there are so many blips and errors it's unlistenable.

Cool As Ice Cream
07-31-2014, 04:42 AM
i guess for the zwan rough mixes and premasters, we best compare some shntool checksums.

is there anything on your list that i still have to upload/send your way, magickarper?

magikarp99
07-31-2014, 04:49 AM
i guess for the zwan rough mixes and premasters, we best compare some shntool checksums.

is there anything on your list that i still have to upload/send your way, magickarper?

Spun M4As?
Potentially the MSOTS premasters and rough mixes.
Psycho Tape 2 Disc DVD?
Any of the Marked Demos?

Cool As Ice Cream
07-31-2014, 05:07 AM
what about pi+friends? do you have that one?

magikarp99
07-31-2014, 05:27 AM
what about pi+friends? do you have that one?

I don't think so. I need that too.

waz
07-31-2014, 06:31 AM
No idea where i got them (ZWAN Premasters / Rough Mixes), was around 2005 I think, could have been a trade, or those downloads, i have no idea, but they sound pretty much the same quality.

marce
07-31-2014, 09:01 PM
what about pi+friends? do you have that one?

I have the following PI+F:

Pisces Iscariot + Friends
ANA-M > SBlive > SHN > WAV > editing (steinberg freefilter) > SHN

* the discs you burn will effectively be CDR-0
* each disc is just over 50 mins, they're from opposite sides
of a 100min tape
* Mayo is cut (as it is on the tape)
* steinberg freefilter is what Starseed used to do the EQ
mirroring.. which is why the PI songs sound nearly identical to the
CD versions.
* "it's got a few pops and tape jumps, but overall it's pretty
damn sweet" - Starseed


A1 Soothe
A2 Frail and Bedazzled
A3 Plume
A4 Whir
A5 Blew Away
A6 Pissant
A7 Hello Kitty Kat
A8 Obscured
A9 Landslide [Nicks]
A10 Starla
A11 Blew Away
A12 Girl Named Sandoz [Animals]

B1 La Dolly Vita
B2 Spaced
B3 Not Worth Asking
B4 Honeyspider
B5 Daughter
B6 Hope
B7 Never Let Me Down [Depeche Mode]
B8 Siva (acoustic)
B9 Slunk (Chump)
B10 Blue (acoustic)
B11 Jazzin'
B12 I Am One (live)
B13 Mayonaise (acoustic)

I'm not sure if that's the best lineage available.

waz
07-31-2014, 11:13 PM
sounds good to me :)

pavementtune
08-01-2014, 01:29 AM
All the stuff that's not on archive.org. Or if spfc.org can't host magnet links they should be here. Like as a replacement to the sphub. Or is that still around?





Update. Bold means I have the best circulating source, bold and italics means someone else in this thread has it.

Pumpkins list:
Adore Demos II: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Quiet And Other Songs: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007 as WAVs/FLACs
Adore Demos I: CD-R on Ebay in 2000, bought and treed via CD-Rs
Gravity Demos: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Friends and Enemies of Modern Music: Given out by Billy in 2000, then treed by 34 as part of Triple Tree
Machina Acoustic Demos: Billy 4 or 8-track master ---> analogM (billy) ---> CDR master (billy) given to Eric Weinrich -> whoever released it
Mashed Potatoes: < 10 CDs distributed by Billy. Eventually uploaded to the Hub in full as SHN; inferior partial copy from ANA circulates, owned by Simon Coyle
MCIS Demos I: <del>RTS tree; (Billy's Home Demos bootleg is supposedly an inferior copy)</del> Does this exist outside Billy's home demos?
MCIS Demos II: Appeared on Ebay in 2000, circulates as ANA-L > DAT0 > CDR-0 > SHN
MCIS Demos III: ANA > DAT > CD-R <del>(inferior version was part of RTS tree)</del> This was on RTS tree
Pisces Iscariot + Friends: ANA > SHN??
Reel Time Sessions: STU>DDC-1>SHN
Sequence IV: Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > John Mulhausen (applied NR) > CD-R / SHN
Courtney Love ANA > Onaric ANA? > Dave Asselin DAT (uncirculated)
Machina Premaster: Leaked on Netphoria in 2007
Virgin B-Sides Promo Tape: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
MCIS Rough Mixes: ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing
666 Tape: PRO > VID-2 > CD-R
Nothing Ever Changes: <del>Ana-L>CDR-M>Cool-Edit>CDR-M (Asselin)>CDR-2>SHN</del> Unknown lineage copy with much better frequency response
Gish Basement Tape: On Pisces Iscariot reissue. Also on Pumpkin Seeds bootleg, did this circulate in any other form? Do we have a copy direct from the ANA?
3 Songs O' Rarities: VID>SHN Psycho tape rip
Gish Rough Mix: ANAM (studio)>ana (cassette)>DAT>DC1>CDR
Sacred + Profane SBD Compilation: Triple tree , in need of copy with good lineage
TSP/Moon Demo: Best version is an ANA cassette from Ebay, owned by bmaromar, distributed by rhinowing in 2009
TSP Officially Released Demo Tape Rip: Released ANA tape rip
Moon Officially Released Demo Tape Rip: Released ANA tape rip - I have the one on What, is this the best?
Drown 8-Track Demo: SPRC
Drown Demo Tape: (is this the best source? ignoring SPRC) promo cassette>ANAx>CDRx>remaster>CDR2>WAV>FLAC
Ignoffo Tape: STU>ANA-2>DATM
Pistachio Medley MP3(s?): ???>MP3 - that In the Arms of Sheep MP3

666 Tape Vid: MTV Employee > Don Dowdy VHS(-0/1 presumably) > DVD
Psycho Tape / AKA 25 Songs O' Pumpkins Vid: 2 disc version
Fruit Bat Salad Vol. 1 Vid: AUD VHS(3)>Standalone DVD>DVDr(3)
Fruit Bat Salad Vol. 2 Vid: AUD VHS(3)>Unknown>DVDr(3)

Zwan list:
Premasters: Leaked, and then shared en mass via FTP on netphoria
Rough mixes: Leaked, and then shared en mass via FTP on netphoria
SPUN OST: M4A and terrible FLAC rip

Billy Corgan list:
TheFutureEmbrace Premaster???: CD>MP3 Dubious, do we want to incIude this?

The Marked list:
The Marked Demo Recordings Mar 85 - Jan 87: ???
The Marked Aug '86: uncertain lineage (possibly ANA-2 > CDR-?)
The Marked Sept - Oct '86: ???
The Marked Attic Rehearsal (1986): ???
The Marked Joliet Tape: I have (ANA-1>CDR) CDR-4, it looks like there is an ANA-1>CDR-M circulating though
The Marked unknown tape: ???

So what we currently need is:

Gravity Demos with good lineage
FAEOMM with good lineage
Sacred + Profane SBD tour comp with good lineage
MCIS Demos I - we don't even have a good commerical bootleg rip of this. Does a non-commercial source exist?
Rips of TSP and Moon official demo tape releases
Drown demo tape rip
Gish Basement Tape - does this exist outside the Pumpkin Seeds bootleg?
Psycho Tape 2 Disc DVD (can't find my copy)
MSOTS Rough mixes
MSOTS Premasters
Spun OST M4As (can't find all of them)
All of the Marked demos

Is there anything else we're missing on these lists?
Do we want to incIude that awful Spun FLAC rip? I say we omit it.
What about the dubious TFE MP3 "premaster"? I say we omit this too.

Maybe someone from thepumpkins.net/music has something from this list that's still needed?

I'm not sure if I fully understand the concept. No official SBDs, right?
Could those maybe be collected for another torrent? I'm thinking of the releases from livesmashingpumpkins, like the White Crosses EP.
I haven't paid attention for a long time, are those still available somewhere?

waz
08-01-2014, 02:06 AM
Maybe someone from thepumpkins.net/music has something from this list that's still needed?

I think that guy has most of his stuff in mp3's only, i could be wrong though.

I'm not sure if I fully understand the concept. No official SBDs, right?
Could those maybe be collected for another torrent? I'm thinking of the releases from livesmashingpumpkins, like the White Crosses EP.
I haven't paid attention for a long time, are those still available somewhere?

The archive is not allowed to share anything thats on official releases, its all part of copyright, only things someone has taped as part of their open taping policy.
Demos can not go up there, but i think billy allows demos to be shared through traders, but the archive has it's own rules.

I believe in essence that anything that is offical and the band/record company still makes money off and is still in print is simply a no-go.

I'm looking forward to upgrading some mp3's of demos and such or things i have lost over the years, keen to listen to them in flac/wav / highest quality possible.

Bring it on :)

pavementtune
08-01-2014, 02:13 AM
Yea I know archive.org can't do this, that's why I thought if you guys are collecting stuff that's not on there, maybe we could compare who has what.

Livepumpkins is gone, I don't know if you can actually purchase the White Crosses EP anywhere.
It was a gift for those who were at the shows, digital only, nobody is making a profit of it (if I'm not mistaken), so I'm not sure if it would be okay to circulate it again or not.

Cool As Ice Cream
08-01-2014, 02:39 AM
it's not about what's ok or not. anything goes. and everything will get its own torrent.

we're also doing this to get the "full" sources of the demos. (on zomb, for example, they leave songs out if that recording was also released.)
if we didn't want the officially released tracks, for whatever reason, we might as well just torrent everything on zomb.

pavementtune
08-01-2014, 02:42 AM
sorry to go off topic, but does someone know what happened to livesmashingpumpkins.com, or if those releases are still available somewhere else?

Cool As Ice Cream
08-01-2014, 02:57 AM
it looks like they're still available.
http://www.livedownloads.com/live-music/3,460/Smashing-Pumpkins-mp3-flac-downloads.html
http://nugs.net/Smashing_Pumpkins.htm

pavementtune
08-01-2014, 03:15 AM
Failed at finding it, shame on me. Thanks for the link!

(Redbull, next time I'm messing up some pages, I could also edit the links if you want?
That's the date where Glow on the White Crosses EP came from, for example.
http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp2008-12-02)

Cool As Ice Cream
08-01-2014, 03:16 AM
i have all the flacs, if you'd be looking for something.

pavementtune
08-01-2014, 03:26 AM
Not me personally, thanks, I have them too somewhere, plus I fucking hate 2 of those 4 White Crosses EP tracks and prefer other recs of the other 2. Not a fan of that tour in general, SBD doesn't make it any better.

I just wasn't sure if it "should be/has to be" circulated, or if people still have the option to purchase the tracks of that EP.

Cool As Ice Cream
08-01-2014, 03:31 AM
is this that bonus ep: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/2t65o3rfteuv5/bonus_ep
(glow, gossamer, that's the way, i am one part 2)

pavementtune
08-01-2014, 03:34 AM
Ahaha, there's the other option.

Yes, that's the EP.

GLOW: 2008/12/02 Los Angeles, CA
Gossamer: 2008/12/08 Chicago, IL
That's The Way (My Love Is): 2008/11/25 Kansas City, MO
I Am One Part II: 2008/11/25 Kansas City, MO

waz
08-01-2014, 04:07 AM
so these were related to the 2008 live SBD offical bootlegs the pumpkins put out,... i remember having a few of those, are there any sites around that have all of the shows they released?

not on the Archive.org im guessing ;)

Cool As Ice Cream
08-01-2014, 04:08 AM
are there any sites around that have all of the shows they released?
you're a bit thick, aren't you?
it looks like they're still available.
http://www.livedownloads.com/live-music/3,460/Smashing-Pumpkins-mp3-flac-downloads.html
http://nugs.net/Smashing_Pumpkins.htm

waz
08-01-2014, 04:28 AM
you're a bit thick, aren't you?

HA!, not thick exactly, just broke,... and $17.99 is a bit steep.
431.76 for the whole set :dammit:

any free linkies? flac prefered, but i guess being SBD, Mp3 would still sound good

pavementtune
08-01-2014, 04:39 AM
Well you can still listen to other recordings of all of the shows for free on archive.org
Want SBD - YOU GOTTA PAY.
Free linkies are out of stock today, the private investigators cleaned out the shelves.

waz
08-01-2014, 04:42 AM
im sure they will turn up some day/ somewhere.
or maybe ill have to wait until i finish paying for all of these re-issues ;)

Azrael
08-01-2014, 07:26 AM
That Alberto dude who flooded the threads with his torrents awhile ago has most (all?) of the livesmashingpumpkins sbd's on his website

Azrael
08-01-2014, 07:28 AM
http://www.albert0.nl/blog/page/9/

I'm sorry. I seriously don't know how to make a link.