View Full Version : Who is the bigger punchline? Ralph Nader or Ross Perot?


Catherine Wheel
05-26-2014, 06:58 AM
Nader ran for president at the age of 74 so I'm going to say him

MusicMan4
05-26-2014, 11:31 AM
i think it is gross that people regard nader as a joke
i mean his later candidacies are, but i'm basically permanently disgusted at everyone who blamed him for Gore's loss and the subsequent killing of the only left of democrat third party that was starting to get taken seriously

i dunno
probably i'm gonna just try to move to seattle and throw all my hopes behind kshama sawant

Order 66
05-26-2014, 11:34 AM
i don't think nader was ever much of a "joke"? never stood a chance but perot was always lampooned on SNL and such. "I QUIT"

MusicMan4
05-26-2014, 11:45 AM
the joke is that we had a third party that somehow "cost" us an Al Gore presidency (which only would have been a good thing in comparison to Bush) but at the same time voting third party is "meaningless"
so now nader and the green party are a laughingstock footnote and to make it worse the closest thing to an important third party is the angry white psychopath libertarians

scottytheoneand
05-26-2014, 11:51 AM
Nadar ruined any chance the Greens ever had at becoming a serious national party. They should have done what Teapublicans have done and created a block within the Democratic party to swing the party toward their issues.

Third parties will always fail in the US if their goal is to hold national office on their own ticket. The only way to do that is to have a national organization.

Catherine Wheel
05-26-2014, 11:59 AM
i don't think nader was ever much of a "joke"? never stood a chance but perot was always lampooned on SNL and such. "I QUIT"

Nader was lampooned on SNL too. Bill Hader played him.

HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT AT THE AGE OF 74. Need I say more.

Order 66
05-26-2014, 12:00 PM
only idiots think nader cost gore the election though. the numbers just aren't there

we've talked about it before but i think american politics are aligned in such a way it just naturally runs in two directions. you can say, yeah we need a more liberal party, but it's just going to get absorbed into the democrat platform at some point. just like how the tea baggers can't escape the republican label even though they fight tooth and nail to pry away from "establishment republicans" and even costing themselves vital elections in the process

like i said it just naturally runs in two directions, and it's more or less always been like that. i think the last "legit" 3rd party candidate was teddy roosevelt. and he lost pretty handily

The exploding boy
05-26-2014, 12:11 PM
only idiots think nader cost gore the election though. the numbers just aren't there

we've talked about it before but i think american politics are aligned in such a way it just naturally runs in two directions. you can say, yeah we need a more liberal party, but it's just going to get absorbed into the democrat platform at some point. just like how the tea baggers can't escape the republican label even though they fight tooth and nail to pry away from "establishment republicans" and even costing themselves vital elections in the process

like i said it just naturally runs in two directions, and it's more or less always been like that. i think the last "legit" 3rd party candidate was teddy roosevelt. and he lost pretty handily

People prefer things to be black and white. Gray is scary.

Catherine Wheel
05-26-2014, 12:17 PM
Or maybe it's just Americans that prefer things in black and white. That would explain a lot.

MusicMan4
05-26-2014, 12:18 PM
Or maybe it's just Americans that prefer things in black and white. That would explain a lot.

maybe you should make a dipshit personality test to prove this

Catherine Wheel
05-26-2014, 12:20 PM
off topic

Order 66
05-26-2014, 12:21 PM
the two parties are pretty much just broad parliamentary coalitions. instead of having a bunch of parties addressing specific interests like in other countries we have two umbrellas covering both sides of the specturm. not that that's good or bad, but it is what it is

MusicMan4
05-26-2014, 12:21 PM
HE RAN FOR PRESIDENT AT THE AGE OF 74. Need I say more.

actually you kind of do

duovamp
05-26-2014, 12:24 PM
Didn't Amanda Bynes play Ross Perot on All That?

Order 66
05-26-2014, 12:25 PM
i don't know. i was born in 97

The Omega Concern
05-26-2014, 12:26 PM
between the two, I suppose Nader. Perot had a legitimate shot at winning and upon further review was 1000% correct about NAFTA.

The exploding boy
05-26-2014, 12:31 PM
Or maybe it's just Americans that prefer things in black and white. That would explain a lot.

I was originally gonna say that but then figured I shouldn't.

but yeah it's confusing if you have more than two parties to consider. I mean when theres two you don't even need to follow the elections, you know in general what they stand for so you can just not bother with following this whole thing and just vote for what you always voted. Bring other parties in and suddenly you have to figure out what they're all about and who's got time for that.

Trotskilicious
05-26-2014, 01:05 PM
did anyone say catherine wheel yet

Trotskilicious
05-26-2014, 01:07 PM
what's with this socialist shit

<img src="http://i.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/11/19/1384881185745/Kshama-Sawant.jpg?width=620&height=-&quality=95">

By the way you buttwhores you realize getting the min wage up this high is only cutting into the middle class more...like i basically make this amount right now. do you think that if they raised the minimum wage I'd also get a wage rage? no? Of course not...

raising the min wage is just another way to put the clamps on the middle class. what good does it do to fix that inequality. congrats now everyone is on minimum wage great work

Order 66
05-26-2014, 01:26 PM
i'd never want to hurt people making $8 an hour by raising their wages

scottytheoneand
05-26-2014, 01:46 PM
How will they learn to pull themselves up it they keep getting free raises?

null123
05-26-2014, 04:07 PM
i voted for nader when i was a dumb 18 year old and i plan on never voting in an election again
so that's kind of funny right there

reprise85
05-26-2014, 04:55 PM
what's with this socialist shit

<img src="http://i.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/11/19/1384881185745/Kshama-Sawant.jpg?width=620&height=-&quality=95">

By the way you buttwhores you realize getting the min wage up this high is only cutting into the middle class more...like i basically make this amount right now. do you think that if they raised the minimum wage I'd also get a wage rage? no? Of course not...

raising the min wage is just another way to put the clamps on the middle class. what good does it do to fix that inequality. congrats now everyone is on minimum wage great work

why do you deserve a higher wage than someone who is now making $8/hr? sounds like you should be happy for them to me. the point is that minimum wage shouldn't leave you in poverty in the first place. it will take some time to self correct itself where non-entry level jobs like yours make more money than the new min wage, but it has to happen sometime or shit will never get fixed.

hnibos
05-26-2014, 05:05 PM
Well you see reprise, he's earned it and they haven't so it would only be fair for him to make more than people who don't deserve $15/hr...

Trotskilicious
05-26-2014, 06:29 PM
yeah i guess you guys don't get it

Trotskilicious
05-26-2014, 06:31 PM
it will take some time to self correct itself where non-entry level jobs like yours make more money than the new min wage, but it has to happen sometime or shit will never get fixed.

it won't though, if that's the already established "minimum wage" then there's a whole host of things wrong and unjust about this system...

but seriously, whatever. you know when you specifically get a pay raise out of it i guess why would you try and consider anyone else's feelings about it

reprise85
05-26-2014, 11:30 PM
yeah, all i can think about is me, that's for sure. :rolleyes:

your feelings seem like basically "it's not fair!" and that's a shitty reason to deny people a living wage

basically i think you should be fighting for a better wage for yourself and not begrudging people for getting a raise to your pay when everyone deserves to make a decent living.

what's your solution, keep wages shitty? for the record, I think $15/hr is stretching it, but $8 an hour or whatever is ridiculous

I'm Hardcore
05-26-2014, 11:35 PM
what does "deserve" have to do with minimum standards of living?

I'm Hardcore
05-26-2014, 11:35 PM
to me, my board

reprise85
05-26-2014, 11:42 PM
what does "deserve" have to do with minimum standards of living?

you know what i mean. it should be viewed as a basic right.

I'm Hardcore
05-26-2014, 11:50 PM
yes exactly

I'm Hardcore
05-26-2014, 11:51 PM
but i mean it's quite a popular argument in favour of keeping people poor, i find

I'm Hardcore
05-27-2014, 12:05 AM
but then again, it's a choice, isn't it? like being gay.

Bread Regal
05-27-2014, 12:10 AM
damn it trots you're being an idiot in this thread.

Catherine Wheel
05-27-2014, 12:22 AM
Bill Hader as Nader

https://screen.yahoo.com/ralph-nader-000000938.html

Eulogy
05-27-2014, 09:13 AM
what's with this socialist shit

<img src="http://i.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/11/19/1384881185745/Kshama-Sawant.jpg?width=620&height=-&quality=95">

By the way you buttwhores you realize getting the min wage up this high is only cutting into the middle class more...like i basically make this amount right now. do you think that if they raised the minimum wage I'd also get a wage rage? no? Of course not...

raising the min wage is just another way to put the clamps on the middle class. what good does it do to fix that inequality. congrats now everyone is on minimum wage great work

Is this a serious post

JokeyLoki
05-27-2014, 09:13 AM
Ross Perot funded a kick-ass natural science museum in Dallas, so I can forget the political absurdity. Also, SNL was so great that year.

Nader isn't even a good joke.

yo soy el mejor
05-27-2014, 06:04 PM
I was going to mention the museum! That was cool of him. What has Nader ever done?!

Eulogy
05-27-2014, 06:18 PM
a fuckton relating to consumer protection, actually

yo soy el mejor
05-27-2014, 06:21 PM
that's boring.

Trotskilicious
05-27-2014, 06:28 PM
anyone making "minimum wage" aka 15 an hour with a college education in a job that requires one want to weigh in or am i the only one

Trotskilicious
05-27-2014, 06:30 PM
yeah, all i can think about is me, that's for sure. :rolleyes:

your feelings seem like basically "it's not fair!" and that's a shitty reason to deny people a living wage

basically i think you should be fighting for a better wage for yourself and not begrudging people for getting a raise to your pay when everyone deserves to make a decent living.

what's your solution, keep wages shitty? for the record, I think $15/hr is stretching it, but $8 an hour or whatever is ridiculous

my solution is to have income redistribution and pay raises across the board, because america needs a pay raise

and yes, my position is that 15 dollars is completely ridiculous

it is incredibly frustrating to have worked for ten plus years starting at 2.13/hrly with tips to get to this point and tell yourself "you're doin okay, man" to just have this flung in your face that you're still basically minimum wage labor. i really feel like what i'm doing today is a lot more difficult and complex than grocery store clerk. do i feel resentment to the clerk? no. but i think massive minimum wage increases are a shortsighted populist cause. what of the vanishing middle income?

it's such an easy thing to do to pretend like you care about the proletarian but ultimately you're just raising the wage and this will ultimately inflate the market especially on commodities that rely on minimum wage labor to make the consumer good affordable, e.g. foodstuffs. over the course of the last few decades we've seen incomes stall out and become stagnant in general, not just the low end of the spectrum. It's using a band aid to stop a gunshot wound.

Mayfuck
05-27-2014, 06:34 PM
i voted for

gore in 2000
nader in 2004
opama in 2008
roseanne barr in 2012

i will probably write in TOC for 2016

Trotskilicious
05-27-2014, 06:43 PM
damn it trots you're being an idiot in this thread.

<u>FUCK YOU</U>

one person says something fucking contrary, maybe explore the idea more fully instead of being a liberal bobblehead = "being an idiot"

Eulogy
05-27-2014, 06:49 PM
It seems like your biggest issue is not wanting to make money in amounts similar to grocery store clerks. That's pretty shitty, really. Should you be making more? Probably? I don't know. But the first goal is to get everyone to a living wage. Where everyone who works can live. That's more pressing than making sure you feel adequately compensated. I think that should be obvious?

Trotskilicious
05-27-2014, 06:51 PM
uh you skipped the economic part about how once you get everyone to a "living wage" all the prices on the "living commodities" will rise to make up for the increase in pay

so you're basically doing nothing

but way to center on the personal bit

Eulogy
05-27-2014, 06:54 PM
That's not true. Look at the last time minimum wage was raised. Did the price of everything suddenly skyrocket? No. So your economic argument is pretty weak here.

Trotskilicious
05-27-2014, 06:55 PM
also this is capitalism and exploitation of labor is inherent in the system and you're using economic controls that are proven to be ineffective at fixing the issue it is attempting to solve

Trotskilicious
05-27-2014, 06:56 PM
That's not true. Look at the last time minimum wage was raised. Did the price of everything suddenly skyrocket? No. So your economic argument is pretty weak here.

you mean just a few years ago, i think 2009? and we're already at "15 dollars an hour" after wholesale raises in food, medical, gas, utilities, rent, "living costs" in general

i don't want to bust out charts and graphs here because fuck it and i'm done with this thread but feel free to tell me what an idiot i am

Eulogy
05-27-2014, 06:56 PM
You're just parroting a republican talking point.

There are arguments made on both sides of this but I've been more convinced by the ones backed by historical sats and whatnot.

Eulogy
05-27-2014, 06:57 PM
$15 is not realistic maybe. But it's a starting point to negotiate.

The Omega Concern
05-28-2014, 12:14 AM
You're just parroting a republican talking point.

There are arguments made on both sides of this but I've been more convinced by the ones backed by historical sats and whatnot.


The law of gravity applies to economics as well. Fast-food owners are already automating certain task and that trend will be expedited by the increased labor cost from min. wage increases.

The Omega Concern
05-28-2014, 12:19 AM
It seems like your biggest issue is not wanting to make money in amounts similar to grocery store clerks. That's pretty shitty, really. Should you be making more? Probably? I don't know. But the first goal is to get everyone to a living wage. Where everyone who works can live. That's more pressing than making sure you feel adequately compensated. I think that should be obvious?

well, trots should be able to feel how he wants per his compensation, anybody should.

But I agree with your sentiment and it could be had through putting free(r) energy gadgets to market. It would greatly increase purchasing power to individuals...but you gotta negotiate with the freak cabalist for that paradigm shift and that's the battle atm.

scottytheoneand
05-28-2014, 12:24 AM
Free energy?

WTF? Another conspiracy post thread hijack

scottytheoneand
05-28-2014, 12:27 AM
Better yet, why not use magic? That'll really increase productivity! Instead of college send all the kids to Hogwarts.

Bread Regal
05-28-2014, 01:07 AM
<u>FUCK YOU</U>

one person says something fucking contrary, maybe explore the idea more fully instead of being a liberal bobblehead = "being an idiot"
i know raising the minimum wage isn't a silver bullet but rather part of a larger framework of policy that would reduce class inequality. i would consider stricter enforcement of anti-trust laws to be the other main part of it. and things like infrastucture revitalization (most cities, public transport is dogshit), tax reform (mitt romney's tax rate is 14.9%), educational reform (technical high schools need to become a thing again).

yes, my perspective on this issue is textbook keynesian economics, but that's not a bad thing necessarily. plus there is also the moral question of whether we should permit employers to have people give them 40 hours per week of their time without giving them enough to take care of themselves in the most fundamental way, forget about saving money.

Bread Regal
05-28-2014, 01:27 AM
I get that you said it would cut into the middle class, but really, what about the lower class. Are they plebs who do not deserve the basic standard of living that allows them to survive in america?

It seems to me that hourly workers with a higher wage have a higher disposable income thereby increasing the velocity of their money through the economy. Or they can elect to work less and use their spare time to make a better future for themselves. They're not trying to scam anybody man they just want their rug back.

Since the US has a service economy and our manufacturing sector has been shrinking for however long, it seems to me that if you allow people to develop skills that are valuable to others, they will actually pursue that. Flipping burgers is still flipping burgers and even if you're making $10.10 an hour, you'd probably rather do something else for the same pay. Higher wages would facilitate that lateral transition, would it not?

With the exception of the indutries in the private sector which provide the essentials (energy, agriculture, et al), I think it's safe to say that if you can't pay a living wage to your workers without being subsidized, your product isn't worth buying.

null123
05-28-2014, 01:37 AM
maybe he's an accelerationist
not really a respectable position but it is an understandable one

Elphenor
05-28-2014, 01:42 AM
I thought for sure he was trolling.

Nobody is that conceded

I'm Hardcore
05-28-2014, 02:22 AM
you're right, nobody is that conceded

Elphenor
05-28-2014, 02:38 AM
Fuck I meant conceited.

reprise85
05-28-2014, 08:25 AM
I think $10-$12 is more realistic. And trots: I get your points, however it's obvious a change needs to happen, and how would pay raises across the board ever happen? You think if everyone made $15 an hour to start, all the $15/hr jobs that exist now wouldn't go up in value within a few years? Serious question, you know much more about economics than I do.

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 02:11 PM
I thought for sure he was trolling.

Nobody is that conceded

Are you tslking to me you idiot child

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 02:17 PM
Can we compromise and make sure loser scum like elp makes 5 dollars an hour doing a shitty job at mcdonalds and someone with kids and responsibilities get a fair living wage?

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 02:21 PM
Ill be frank if the pizza place pays 15 an hour why the fuck would i bother with offive work

All you middle class dicks act like food service is the slave pits and nobody enjoys the work. I liked making pies. A lot. So stop with the projection that working in that industry isnt primarily shitty because of wages and bennies.

And no, reprise, i dont think a raise in the min wage is going to double my pay. Just a hunch

Eulogy
05-28-2014, 02:32 PM
So... If food service paid 15/hour you'd do that and enjoy it more?

reprise85
05-28-2014, 04:57 PM
Ill be frank if the pizza place pays 15 an hour why the fuck would i bother with offive work

All you middle class dicks act like food service is the slave pits and nobody enjoys the work. I liked making pies. A lot. So stop with the projection that working in that industry isnt primarily shitty because of wages and bennies.

And no, reprise, i dont think a raise in the min wage is going to double my pay. Just a hunch

i didnt ask if it would double it

in theory, wouldnt it be nice to be able to do something you enjoy (in this case, making pizza) while someone who enjoys office work can do that, and you both make a decent living?

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 06:03 PM
Min wage is a little under 8 right now. Raising that to 15 is practically doubling it. <b>I fully support the 10 dollar min wage.</b>

this 15 an hour shit rustles my jimmies

completely contradicts my supposed ethics i know but there it is REAL TALK

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 06:05 PM
So... If food service paid 15/hour you'd do that and enjoy it more?

With full bennies and PTO? Youre sure as shit homie

Bread Regal
05-28-2014, 06:09 PM
Min wage is a little under 8 right now. Raising that to 15 is practically doubling it. I fully support the 10 dollar min wage.
well see $15 is a preliminary negotiation price. it's to drag the overton window over so that 10.10/hr doesn't seem unreasonable.

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 06:11 PM
i mean seriously fuck sitting at a dumb desk. food prep is such simple honest work, people need to eat, you make something that tastes good and they give you money for it. the CIIIIRCLE OF LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFE

hnibos
05-28-2014, 06:12 PM
You also get free food I'd imagine and nothing is better than free food except probably free weed.

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 06:13 PM
well see $15 is a preliminary negotiation price. it's to drag the overton window over so that 10.10/hr doesn't seem unreasonable.

whatever, ultimately capitalism is exploitation and ultimately i support the repeal of labor laws entirely so that capitalism will destabilize under its own frenzied humping and come crashing to the ground. then marx will rise from the grave and we'll have the rapture

maybe he's an accelerationist

really thought i came up with this idea by myself

i'd like to know how it's not defensible, i can see how someone who believes in the Power of the Individual would think so but that doesn't seem like whatever approximates the gestalt charmbag conciousness

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 06:13 PM
nothing is better than free food except probably free weed.

now you are starting to see why i specifically said pizza

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 06:22 PM
by the way all this communist posturing is completely stupid because i am the bourgoisie and my jimmies being rustled by the prospect of a $15 minimum wage is proof of it

i might as well just quit thinking thoughts i mean where has thinking thoughts ever got me in life

Bread Regal
05-28-2014, 06:22 PM
remember how nimrod voted for obama the first time so that america would "wake up"

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 06:27 PM
my whole personality is a retarded joke

spoiled bourgoisie baby/communist proto-revolutionary
completely fat unathletic pile of shit/i know everything about basketball
not black/quote gangsta rap like i understand it
total sneering pretentious music snob/can't play it or make it and gave up trying
self-pitying porn pervert/neo lib rad fem
self centered dick that thinks humanity is a parasite/works for non profit

like seriously who the fuck likes this guy: nobody

i'm a

white republican

The exploding boy
05-28-2014, 06:27 PM
i might as well just quit thinking thoughts i mean where has thinking thoughts ever got me in life

I am of fairly average intelligence and yet I ask myself that everyday. I wish I'd been stupider. Life would have been so much easier. I find there is no benefit in having a critical thinking mind. Not in my life experience anyway.

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 06:28 PM
seriously man! why would anyone like someone who has Views on Things

The exploding boy
05-28-2014, 06:47 PM
I don't know but people sure don't like me.

Then again I'm a bit belligerent in my opinion sharing. Maybe because I feel unrepresented and unheard. So I just like to spit in people's faces while I tell them how I feel about it, this way I foolishly think they might pay attention (turns out they just disregard me as crazy and unstable I think).

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 07:02 PM
yeah they don't like me either, i'm so Opinionated and i'm ultimately just a big stupid hypocrite who should keep his goddamn mouth shut about absolutely everything but basketball and video games

reprise85
05-28-2014, 10:38 PM
pretty sure everyone is a hypocrite

Trotskilicious
05-28-2014, 11:00 PM
i'm a particularly egregious, obnoxious one.