View Full Version : If All Goes Wrong


wounded
01-29-2014, 10:14 PM
watched this for the first time since it was released. Man, how fucking awkward is this documentary. Just plain uncomfortable to watch at times.

redbreegull
01-29-2014, 10:18 PM
I tried to watch it a second time a few years back, couldn't do it

slunken
01-29-2014, 10:19 PM
BC has aged so much since then

themadcaplaughs
01-29-2014, 10:23 PM
Hard to really take seriously when three of the people on stage with him at those shows are no longer in the band.

T&T
01-29-2014, 11:28 PM
i can honestly say I've forgotten Ginger.

Order 66
01-29-2014, 11:55 PM
i watched it about a year ago. i didn't think it was that awkward or anything, it was okay to watch

but about five years out it really makes you question wtf was that era all about

juliana
01-30-2014, 12:09 AM
I liked it.

TuralyonW3
01-30-2014, 01:37 AM
watched it once and had no desire to do so again

BurtSampson
01-30-2014, 11:19 AM
remember how we were supposed to take it seriously when he's sitting around in his pjs like a manchild and eating a head of lettuce or something

Tuscaloosa
01-30-2014, 03:19 PM
haha yes

Pizza Club
01-30-2014, 06:50 PM
I liked it too

themadcaplaughs
02-01-2014, 10:16 AM
I just loved how Billy's whole spiel since 1994 or so was that the media has completely misrepresented him as an egotisitical, petulant, control freak who really isn't in it for the money and accolades, but just for the art. Yet, in the film we see...

-Billy getting pissy about the fact that he has to share writing credits with James on "Soma" and "Mayonaise."
-Billy whining to Jimmy when a local newspaper gives the first show in San Francisco a bad review.
-Billy berating his personal assistant for talking outside of his dressing room.
-Billy antagonizing a member of his band to the point that he breaks a guitar on stage.

T&T
02-01-2014, 11:56 AM
-Billy antagonizing a member of his band to the point that he breaks a guitar on stage.
where is this in the video? Is it really antagonizing, or more of an egging on? Is it really Jeff's personal fault for an equipment failure? - no.

slunken
02-02-2014, 01:36 AM
BC is also pretty upfront about being seen as an egotistical petulant control freak.

Cool As Ice Cream
02-02-2014, 04:06 AM
BLOOOOOOOOOOO SKAAAAZ BRING TEEYA

Starla
02-02-2014, 06:58 AM
It's a piece of shit. I watch vieuphoria to forget about how awful things are now.

panda show
02-02-2014, 07:06 AM
where is this in the video? Is it really antagonizing, or more of an egging on? Is it really Jeff's personal fault for an equipment failure? - no.around 1:11:00 I think... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O07tzI2Vo8Y#t=4263

I'm not sure what it was that made jeff do that, although he was definitely angry about billy or something that has to do with billy.. some say he was just crushed under billy's exhausting work schedule, which is basically tour every day.. and when that finishes, go back to the studio.

Trotskilicious
02-02-2014, 07:53 AM
so aptly titled then eh

juliana
02-02-2014, 05:05 PM
I just loved how Billy's whole spiel since 1994 or so was that the media has completely misrepresented him as an egotisitical, petulant, control freak who really isn't in it for the money and accolades, but just for the art. Yet, in the film we see...

-Billy getting pissy about the fact that he has to share writing credits with James on "Soma" and "Mayonaise."
-Billy whining to Jimmy when a local newspaper gives the first show in San Francisco a bad review.
-Billy berating his personal assistant for talking outside of his dressing room.
-Billy antagonizing a member of his band to the point that he breaks a guitar on stage.

If that is the worst of corgan, I have had bosses that are 20 times worse than him.

Also he isn't pissed about sharing writing credits, he is pissed that people think the song is only good because james helped. He says it was good because we did it together. I think that's fair. Billy is just insecure. He is a weird guy. Nothing is ever good enough. It is hard to live like that.

wounded
02-02-2014, 05:25 PM
it is interesting that the documentary clearly went in a direction that wasn't expected and for them to still release it was nice. I like it on that level. "if all goes wrong" indeed and I went to one of the asheville shows and I remember how excited the town seemed about it all.

Some of the awkwardness isn't even his fault. like the girl with the bust of him. That was just bizarre and maybe it was weirdly edited, but there is just this random statement of her finding someone's body or something.

I don't know. As a fan I can watch it, but I was watching it with a non fan and it was like of like :erm:

Banana
02-02-2014, 05:43 PM
I guess all really did go wrong looking back at it all now.

Shallowed
02-02-2014, 06:11 PM
Who even says that Mayonaise and Soma are good because James Iha co-wrote them? Mayonaise is my favourite SP song for many reasons, least of all that James was involved with it.

Maybe one person mentioned it to Billy and it really rubbed him the wrong way so he has this sulk abut how EVERYBODY attributes the greatness of those songs to James. Kind of like how he doesn't want to release the Chicago songs because of something someone said on the internet.

juliana
02-02-2014, 07:48 PM
Who even says that Mayonaise and Soma are good because James Iha co-wrote them? Mayonaise is my favourite SP song for many reasons, least of all that James was involved with it.

Maybe one person mentioned it to Billy and it really rubbed him the wrong way so he has this sulk abut how EVERYBODY attributes the greatness of those songs to James. Kind of like how he doesn't want to release the Chicago songs because of something someone said on the internet.

People actually do give james a lot of credit. I believes he does deserve credit. But some retards think james was the reason SP was good back then, he is only part of the reason though. I have seen it quite a bit.

Starla
02-02-2014, 08:44 PM
People actually do give james a lot of credit. I believes he does deserve credit. But some retards think james was the reason SP was good back then, he is only part of the reason though. I have seen it quite a bit.

I'm one of those people.

T&T
02-02-2014, 10:16 PM
we've seen what james can do on his own. and it's not much.
I'm glad billy keeps trying without james. some of it has been a success, some of it a miss.
Billy doesn't need james but it didn't hurt.

Cool As Ice Cream
02-03-2014, 03:32 AM
BLOO SKAZ BRING TEEYA

AveryLoren
02-03-2014, 09:19 PM
Is I Don't Mind and If All Goes Wrong really two different songs?

Shallowed
02-03-2014, 10:55 PM
If All Goes Wrong was called "I Don't Mind" as a working title, and was played at the Orange Peel and Fillmore residencies.

I Don't Mind is a completely different song that was only played a handful of times in late January/early February in 2008.

Bread Regal
02-03-2014, 11:05 PM
around 1:11:00 I think... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O07tzI2Vo8Y#t=4263

the awkwardness of this clip is so palpable. i couldn't make it 15 seconds.

themadcaplaughs
02-05-2014, 10:48 PM
If that is the worst of corgan, I have had bosses that are 20 times worse than him.

Also he isn't pissed about sharing writing credits, he is pissed that people think the song is only good because james helped. He says it was good because we did it together. I think that's fair. Billy is just insecure. He is a weird guy. Nothing is ever good enough. It is hard to live like that.

And not a single thing you said changed what I said in anyway. Corgan has pissed and moaned since the early 1990s that the media is out to make him look like he is egotistical, soulless, and controlling and this documentary shows him being all three of this things.

The Melty Man
02-11-2015, 07:48 AM
Bump. I just watched it for the first time too. And yeah it made me feel awkward.

It's the beginnings of this "Nobody believes I made a three-star record. Nobody!" rant which is all going on now.

I saw them on the Zeitgeist tour and sang all the new material back to them, I'd listened to it, I liked it. I'm going to see them again in a couple of weeks and it's going to feel awkward singing back the slapstick lyrics of MTAE to prove I care.

dreams of glass
02-11-2015, 02:38 PM
I kind of enjoyed the film when I saw it the first time

Billy being chauffeured around, lounging in his PJ's in his hotel room, constantly strumming on his guitar

I dunno why, maybe I'm jealous and wish I had that life. But then you have to be on stage or in front of a camera all the time too, which would freak me out

The exploding boy
02-11-2015, 02:46 PM
I watched this the first time like a month ro two ago. Those residency songs are terrible.

I mean you know writing music isnt hard. Anyone who's played an instruments for like one or two months can write a song. I could write a song daily, lyrics and everything. Anyone could. THAT DOESN'T MEAN ITS ANY FUCKING GOOD. Writing music is easy, writing good music is hard (also i believe kinda part luck really to a certain extent...). Corgan has never been that type of guy but in this he was. Oh look here's some chords i threw together and some bullshit lyrics on top of them. See how much of a genius i am? I could do this all day. SO COULD EVERYONE.

Jelly Blossom
02-11-2015, 03:10 PM
I watched this the first time like a month ro two ago. Those residency songs are terrible.

I mean you know writing music isnt hard. Anyone who's played an instruments for like one or two months can write a song. I could write a song daily, lyrics and everything. Anyone could. THAT DOESN'T MEAN ITS ANY FUCKING GOOD. Writing music is easy, writing good music is hard (also i believe kinda part luck really to a certain extent...). Corgan has never been that type of guy but in this he was. Oh look here's some chords i threw together and some bullshit lyrics on top of them. See how much of a genius i am? I could do this all day. SO COULD EVERYONE.

This statement accurately describes about 90% of all SP songs that Billy has written.

dreams of glass
02-11-2015, 04:06 PM
I forget which song it is, but that

my Indonesian indecision

line makes me cringe when I hear it

perfect example of just throwing lyrics together and calling it a day

The exploding boy
02-11-2015, 04:15 PM
This statement accurately describes about 90% of all SP songs that Billy has written.

Wel once you count his post machina output...then yeah...


Well not 90% though. But at this point surely its 50% at least? Well more if you count that not everything pre breakup was great. Let's say maybe 25 to 30%of his output is good or great. But you know, for any artist that's not bad.

Forgotten Child
02-11-2015, 04:36 PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0lnT4gkt9QY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Forgotten Child
02-11-2015, 04:36 PM
I love some of those songs, great lyrics and they show a more mature Billy. My favorite one is If All Goes Wrong (the song)

scottytheoneand
02-11-2015, 07:21 PM
He comes off like a total asshole. Wtf was bill thinking?

The only one left is Jeff

scottytheoneand
02-11-2015, 07:22 PM
Its like when jimmy left he took bills abity to write lyrics.

redbull
02-11-2015, 07:38 PM
Its like when jimmy left he took bills abity to write lyrics.

THE JACKALS LICK THEIR BALLS

The Melty Man
02-12-2015, 07:20 AM
THE JACKALS LICK THEIR BALLS

Jackals licking their balls is strong lyrical imagery, compared to run to me, run to me, run to me, run to me.

dodoz
02-12-2015, 10:33 AM
The second DVD is even worse than the first one. The live-in-the-studio acoustic session is a snorefest as far as I'm concerned...

houseofglass11
02-12-2015, 03:17 PM
Jackals licking their balls is strong lyrical imagery, compared to run to me, run to me, run to me, run to me.

He says "paws" anyways, not balls.

bye june
02-12-2015, 03:37 PM
He comes off like a total asshole. Wtf was bill thinking?

The only one left is Jeff

Jeff "The Only One Left" Schroeder

cardiac
02-12-2015, 04:35 PM
Jackals licking their balls is strong lyrical imagery, compared to run to me, run to me, run to me, run to me.

Yeah man. "Jackals lick their balls" is a great rock lyric.

Spira|_
02-13-2015, 12:14 AM
I consider residency songs one of the best works billy did post 2007, except the harmonic parts which I hate.
But those songs have some emotion and melody at least.

The Melty Man
02-17-2015, 05:04 AM
I just watched "Inside the Zeitgeist" now. So much more optimism in that recording than "If All Goes Wrong" - the title of which looks vaguely suggestive now that I think about it.

Also, Ma Belle rocks.

MyKeyZ
02-17-2015, 06:13 PM
You gotta love that whole moment with the two girls with the bust of Billy's head...
yes, it is painfully awkward.

But nothing beats the best part when Billy uses the "I gotta go work" excuse and leaves without taking the bust. He just flew out of there and left it on the ground. They pump in some overdub of the girl talking about how it's nice when artists you admire take the time to talk to you while you see the same girl pick up the bust with a "But what about my gift, Billy?" look on her face. I had to laugh at the situation.

Nice one, Billy lol

vajohna
02-26-2015, 12:44 PM
Watched this DVD yesterday after reading this thread. Still want to make-out with Lisa.

SlingeroGuitaro
02-26-2015, 01:55 PM
Watched this DVD yesterday after reading this thread. Still want to make-out with Lisa.
So much this

dreams of glass
04-21-2015, 12:17 AM
what do you think is the best Residency show?

or what are some stand out tracks? Has anyone made a best of comp?

I know all or most of the shows are on The Archive, but it's a lot to wade through.

Shallowed
04-21-2015, 12:34 AM
T&T made a good compilation of residency songs

bunny
04-21-2015, 01:30 AM
Disk 1
01 Rose March 2007-07-30
02 Peace And Love 2007-07-31
03 No Surrender 2007-07-28
04 99 Floors 2007-07-27
05 The Leaving Lament 2007-07-16
06 I Don't Mind 2007-07-30
07 Psalm 131 2007-07-05
08 Question Mark 2007-06-26
09 If Only In A Dream 2007-06-30
10 Mama 2007-06-29
11 I'm Doing The Best I Can 06 2007-06-27
12 Promise Me 2007-07-16

Disk 2
01 SuperChrist 2007-07-30
02 Gossamer 2007-07-30

download link
http://we.tl/z54gwjuABl

teh b0lly!!1
04-21-2015, 02:22 AM
i was incredibly bored the other day and watched this

i mean i couldn't actually make it through so i skimmed the interesting parts.
thoughts:

1) this IS the most awkward documentary ever made. i felt painfully uncomfortable watching it.
at one point there's a time lapse video of billy sleeping. god what the fuck

2) there's good depression\melancholy, like the ones billy had in the 90s, and there's horrible, paralyzing depression, like the one we see here.
he's extremely skinny, angrily tosses guitars, obsesses over the past, etc

3) i think it really just now struck me how really mentally ill billy is. and i don't mean that as a pejorative or anything. he really is sick. he was a traumatized child, is a traumatized person, and he just can't handle any of it. he has sold millions of records, he is rich as fuck, he is basically in paradise but all he sees is his own failure, how people only like james and not him, what else do i need to fucking do etc.

i suddenly saw him as just a regular guy who plays music and is basically a huge emotional trainwreck. it's very sad
the success he was able to accomplish really was to his detriment. it's like the single most unhealthy thing imaginable for a person like that

4) the best musical moments were just him quietly singing with an acoustic guitar, which only serve the idea that if he went down the chicagosongs path, things would be so much better off.

5) tl;dr

Cool As Ice Cream
04-21-2015, 02:59 AM
http://foreverdunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/lionelrichie-hello1.jpeg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ57wy4_H0Y

Cool As Ice Cream
04-21-2015, 03:05 AM
i was incredibly bored the other day and watched this

i mean i couldn't actually make it through so i skimmed the interesting parts.
thoughts:

i also watched it recently. i watched it all the way through.

it surprised me how rubbish the whole thing is. there's no coherence or story line. it's just a bunch of random footage thrown together. really pointless.

i guess it just worked for me, back when it came out, because i was still excited about it, and was glad to watch anything new.
and some bits are interesting or amusing, of course. but there isn't very much of that.

reprise85
04-21-2015, 03:32 AM
what do you think is the best Residency show?

or what are some stand out tracks? Has anyone made a best of comp?

I know all or most of the shows are on The Archive, but it's a lot to wade through.

Orange Peel 06/27 was the best residency show. i might be a little biased. ;) but i saw SP 3 times pre-2000 and this one even beat those. the venue had a lot to do with it, but the setlist was incredible and the crowd became an SP mob, it was great

https://archive.org/details/tsp2007-06-27.m300.flac16

vajohna
04-21-2015, 05:09 AM
i was incredibly bored the other day and watched this

i mean i couldn't actually make it through so i skimmed the interesting parts.
thoughts:

1) this IS the most awkward documentary ever made.

Some Kind Of Monster has a band therapist who starts to act like he's in the band, so no, not the most awkward.

pavementtune
04-21-2015, 06:56 AM
still haven't watched it, and the comments in here make me think I haven't missed anything

Cool As Ice Cream
04-21-2015, 07:06 AM
i love some kind of monster. best band doc ever. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK (https://youtu.be/QDCLdNt_oK0?t=1m29s)! ahahaha

Cool As Ice Cream
04-21-2015, 07:07 AM
still haven't watched it, and the comments in here make me think I haven't missed anything

watched what?

amoergosum
04-21-2015, 07:23 AM
LOL >>>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cgc6Rahs6bo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

teh b0lly!!1
04-21-2015, 10:19 AM
some kind of monster offers incredibly interesting insight to the workings of a band that's still going after 30 years, ego struggles, departing members, etc.

it's great.

like caic said, If All Goes Wrong is basically random footage thrown together.
i barely even knew that because i watched it as such without knowing - i just skipped and found the bits that seemed interesting.

amoergosum
04-21-2015, 10:44 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RL9XRUS3Dn4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

patj825
04-21-2015, 11:07 AM
I really like the If All Goes Wrong Documentary.

bunny
04-21-2015, 12:51 PM
is billy corgan a bigger twat then lars?
poll.

IWishIWasBlank
04-21-2015, 02:08 PM
*than you fucking twat.

Re: teh b0lly!!1

I got it right away on a pre-order IIRC, skimmed it, maybe played the whole thing once. He's been on the a serious mental decline ever since Adore IMHO... or at least it has become more and more visible since then. Maybe it's the journal entries he posted online. Maybe it's the snippets of tape in TAFH and GATGC. Maybe it's the interviews where he has given inconsistent answers... like complete 180 answers sometimes... when asked the same question over a long period of time... not about favorite cereal but why James didn't come back or why Jimmy was fired. It all adds up. Maybe it's to do with our added age/maturity/experience as long time Pumpkins fans who have had acquaintances and family members with various mental problems. Really, it's all of `em though. All of `em. Bill seems like the type though, that would not recognize the love and appreciation of his music or the help fans would try to give him. He has always seemed to me to persistently be surrounded by the worst soul sucking leech hangers on in the world though.

bunny
04-21-2015, 02:56 PM
*FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING TWAT IWISHIWASAFUCKINGTWATFAGGOT

IWishIWasBlank
04-21-2015, 04:01 PM
Whatever that is, it's irrelevant, because I have more posts than you.

acid_barrett
07-19-2015, 12:02 AM
which gossamer is on the live fillmore disc of IAGW? are there any proshot orange peel shows?

Shallowed
07-19-2015, 12:17 AM
I miss SPLRA :(

werideatdusk
07-19-2015, 02:20 AM
Orange Peel 06/27 was the best residency show. i might be a little biased. ;) but i saw SP 3 times pre-2000 and this one even beat those. the venue had a lot to do with it, but the setlist was incredible and the crowd became an SP mob, it was great

https://archive.org/details/tsp2007-06-27.m300.flac16

this is soooo good.

really hope we see setlists like this again. i sometimes forget what a drop in quality happened when JC left after the 08 tour...

jakobtheliar
07-19-2015, 02:38 AM
i sometimes forget what a drop in quality happened when JC left after the 08 tour...

i feel like this is why the drumming was so good during the sheitgeist days. there was no one to pick up the slack other than jimmy. that's why you get these over the top drum parts and great rock guitar fills from the bolls but that as a whole it is all lacking. criticize whomever whatever but it was the combination of billy and james' guitars and effects.
listen to zero from 96 and from 2007. there;s no comparison. james' inventiveness and effects are all the difference.
dont believe me?
watch the geek usa from the greatest hits then watch a youtube of the live version of this most recent tour. even if james didn't write all of those pulls and harmonics, which i feel he did, it's 120 percent better than the non inventive non explorative effects they have now.

dreams of glass
07-19-2015, 02:44 AM
download link
http://we.tl/z54gwjuABl

anyone have a re-up for this?

pretty please and thank you

redbull
07-19-2015, 06:49 PM
I miss SPLRA :(

know anybody with PHP experience?

I'm probably going to just wind up paying someone but I just changed jobs and i'm broke as shit rn

redbull
07-19-2015, 06:49 PM
and the version of gossamer is either 7/30 or 7/31 can't remember

sjpaterra
07-19-2015, 07:03 PM
7/30 has a way crazier drum solo... 7/31 sounds more like IAGW. July 30 was also the longest, I think. 36 mins. Anyone know if there are any soundboard residencies available?

redbull
07-19-2015, 08:43 PM
soundboard from 7/28 https://archive.org/details/tsp2007-07-28.sbdmtx.flac16

redbull
07-19-2015, 08:45 PM
7/30 has a way crazier drum solo... 7/31 sounds more like IAGW. July 30 was also the longest, I think. 36 mins. Anyone know if there are any soundboard residencies available?

could also be 7/27 i guess, i know that only the last 5 shows were filmed for the dvd though

Shallowed
07-19-2015, 10:31 PM
know anybody with PHP experience?

I'm probably going to just wind up paying someone but I just changed jobs and i'm broke as shit rn

Could ask for donations? I'd drop a couple of dollars.

sjpaterra
07-20-2015, 01:07 AM
soundboard from 7/28 https://archive.org/details/tsp2007-07-28.sbdmtx.flac16

awesome. thank you

Shallowed
07-20-2015, 02:17 AM
soundboard from 7/28 https://archive.org/details/tsp2007-07-28.sbdmtx.flac16

AUDSBD?

sjpaterra
07-20-2015, 10:53 AM
it sounds SBD quality and the description seems to confirm that billy gave the recording away...

RacerBoy
07-20-2015, 11:15 AM
I am trying for this to watch. But in vain still I am not getting this.

amoergosum
07-20-2015, 11:52 AM
soundboard from 7/28 https://archive.org/details/tsp2007-07-28.sbdmtx.flac16

Thanks!
Lucky 13 man...great performance!

pavementtune
07-20-2015, 12:06 PM
know anybody with PHP experience?

I'm probably going to just wind up paying someone but I just changed jobs and i'm broke as shit rn

did Milan ever get any replies on this? last I talked to him I got the impression it's down for good?
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=182218
Biggest issue we have is that the MediaWiki software needs to be upgraded from a really old version. This was running on php5.2. The hosting provider has disabled this version due to security reasons.
We are trying to get an old version of php installed so we can gradually upgrade. If anyone wants to help mail me or frank. Milan at Starla dot org (NL). Frank at splra dot org (USA)

I miss it, too. My archiving OCD needs a new outlet.
if you really want to go down the paying someone road, let me know.

redbull
07-20-2015, 08:29 PM
did Milan ever get any replies on this? last I talked to him I got the impression it's down for good?
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=182218


I miss it, too. My archiving OCD needs a new outlet.
if you really want to go down the paying someone road, let me know.

its not down for good -- worst comes to worst i will pay somebody to upgrade it in a few months. my life is just getting busy lately and splra had to take a backseat to work...

Shadaloo
07-28-2015, 11:26 PM
Word has it someone just stole the creepy as fuck Billy bust at the Atlanta show the other night.

houseofglass11
07-29-2015, 12:47 AM
Yeah I saw that post on the pumpkinland fb group. I lol'd. Sorry but that's kind of pathetic and creepy that someone would carry that around everywhere.

houseofglass11
07-29-2015, 12:50 AM
http://i62.tinypic.com/r0e06p.jpg

SlingeroGuitaro
07-29-2015, 07:59 AM
"stole" and "put out of its misery" are not the same thing.



how many times has that girl made out with that thing.

does she talk to it daily?


what fantasies has she carried out?

Cool As Ice Cream
07-29-2015, 09:15 AM
Word has it someone just stole the creepy as fuck Billy bust at the Atlanta show the other night.

tell me more
give me all the details

pavementtune
07-29-2015, 10:21 AM
tell me more
give me all the details

something something fan owned.... travelling to gigs.... something something memories of dead mother... stolen at the Atlanta show, not going to press charges if returned, 4k cash reward to bring it back...

Cool As Ice Cream
07-29-2015, 10:59 AM
the same girl as in "if all goes wrong" - aka awkward dancing with your eyes closed causing you to miss the many signs that it's time to piss off - was carrying it around everywhere? and then someone stole it at a recent gig? how recent was the atlanta gig?

how was it stolen? was she not holding it? i don't get it. surely she wouldn't let it just sit somewhere without keeping an eye on it.

can someone link me to, or quote that exact "something something fan owned" quote. thank you.

pavementtune
07-29-2015, 12:00 PM
only if you dance the Bramalanlang :banoonoo:

stolen at Aaron's Amphitheatre, Atlanta July 25th
Guys, we have to bring the bust back. Someone in ATL,knows and or saw something. There is a wealthy fan who is offering 4,000 dollars no questions asked. I understand and need it back, all the memories of going to the shows with my friend and my Mother who is gone. If you can help return the bust, the reward is yours!The bust from the documentary has been stolen, in Atlanta I have taken that bust to shows all over the us, a fan has this piece and it means so much more than a piece of clay to me, it reminds me..My amazing Mother and all the wild adventures, I talked her into.can you believe this shit? I made a police report and an going to contact the paper. I won't press charges, they can take the money and release the fucking head. I mean, come on people. That's what I am counting on, going to the press and saying my peace. Do you know how far I walked from your house with it in NYC?No, he had seen it long before the orange peel. art project, gift which ended up in the film
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/41DyNjBSAUw" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Cool As Ice Cream
07-29-2015, 05:13 PM
:bananadance:

SlingeroGuitaro
07-29-2015, 05:30 PM
They should hire a maid.

redbull
07-30-2015, 03:30 AM
:rock on: :thehelicopter:

scottytheoneand
07-30-2015, 04:09 PM
that bust barely looked like bill to begin with. Now it just looks like a sculpture of somebody with an extreme face lift. It could be a real house wife of new York.

KissesandNoise
07-30-2015, 05:46 PM
I did a review of that a while back: http://kissesandnoise.com/2008/12/smashing-pumpkins-if-all-goes-wrong-dvd-review/

I dug it. I was in Asheville for three of the shows and the vibe was magical. Then SF turned into a punch in the face. That was a very weird, unique set of circumstances for a band trying to make a comeback which makes for an interesting angle to a documentary. The forces at work make it a good story beyond something for SP fans.

KissesandNoise
07-30-2015, 05:56 PM
I recorded a much better version of the show on tape and I'm looking to digitize it. I think it was 7/3/07 or 7/5/07. I will post once I do.

These are made with a crappy camera but sound decent ...

This is a mean version of Silverfuck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrqcdZfsIF8 Near the end Billy starts screaming "Come a little closer to me! Give me what I want!" Chills.

Aeroplane - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfqFdKN1Z14
Rotten - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRgmuIbsTmc
Starla - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJtuAZPFi6A

I also have this 30+ minute "Gossamer:" https://archive.org/details/GossamerSmashingPumpkinsAsheville732007

KissesandNoise
08-06-2015, 05:38 PM
around 1:11:00 I think... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O07tzI2Vo8Y#t=4263

I'm not sure what it was that made jeff do that, although he was definitely angry about billy or something that has to do with billy.. some say he was just crushed under billy's exhausting work schedule, which is basically tour every day.. and when that finishes, go back to the studio.

Yeah, I think it was the doc or another interview but to break in the new band they had to learn 80 songs or so. They practiced at 10am for 2-3 hours, came back in the evening for a 1-2 hour soundcheck, then did 3 1/2 hour shows. That's part of why James and D'arcy cracked and surely part of why Zwan didn't work. Those guys weren't having that.

KissesandNoise
08-06-2015, 05:43 PM
i watched it about a year ago. i didn't think it was that awkward or anything, it was okay to watch

but about five years out it really makes you question wtf was that era all about

The only reason I question that era is because so much work went into it for it to dissolve in 2 years. When you listen to the residencies, the 2008 shows, and the 20th anniversary shows you hear a fucking powerhouse of a band. The setlists were incredible, Billy and Jimmy were at the top of their game, Jeff was sounding really good (technically proficient at least), Lisa's keys were great, and Lisa and Ginger's vocals added so much. He's really missing good backing vocals.

eyeboogers
08-06-2015, 05:58 PM
The only reason I question that era is because so much work went into it for it to dissolve in 2 years. When you listen to the residencies, the 2008 shows, and the 20th anniversary shows you hear a fucking powerhouse of a band. The setlists were incredible, Billy and Jimmy were at the top of their game, Jeff was sounding really good (technically proficient at least), Lisa's keys were great, and Lisa and Ginger's vocals added so much. He's really missing good backing vocals.

And yet the response, both in the actual venues and on this board, were extremely negative. It's a shame about the current lack of backing vox, Nicole was probably the collaborator who has best augmented Corgan's vocals, a shame that she is also no longer part of the band.

Sonic Johnny
08-06-2015, 07:54 PM
When you listen to the residencies, the 2008 shows, and the 20th anniversary shows you hear a fucking powerhouse of a band.

I only come to the SP board like once a month but even after all these years i am freaked the fuck out by how many people still go in to bat for SP2

Spira|_
08-06-2015, 08:40 PM
Just watch If all goes wrong now, finally. It is interesting, the composition process and the tour rotine bla bla.
But it is sad how Billy is a so bitter person at moment...

themadcaplaughs
08-06-2015, 10:09 PM
I do not think I have actually watched the whole thing since 2008 or 2009, but chose to give it another shot since reading this thread made me curious. I remembered there being a scene where Billy is walking around parks/tourist attractions talking about how much his songs got played on the radio in 1995/1996 and how he now wonders if Smashing Pumpkins will eventually be a band that plays community centers and county fairs.

At the time, I thought it was an honest scene and even somewhat endearing. It was an artist talking realistically about his past successes and his hopes and worries for the future. It made me realize that, as much as we rag on Billy, financial motivation could not have been his main purpose for bringing back Smashing Pumpkins. I'm not saying it was not a motivation, but I do not think the main one.

Anyway, at the time I can remember thinking, "that's a cool speech, but if I had to work with him and hear this all the time, I'd go insane." Well 2009- the present have shown that this really is what Billy talks about ALL THE DAMN TIME. Be it in interviews, VIP Q&A sessions, even Pajo and Sweeney have said the dude never stopped talking/thinking about himself. I re watched the film today after reading this thread, and that scene immediately stuck out. A preview of what was to come for the next half a decade.

mattisnotfrench
08-07-2015, 12:52 AM
I only come to the SP board like once a month but even after all these years i am freaked the fuck out by how many people still go in to bat for SP2

SP2 had some potential but there were a lot of poor decisions. I mean, 2007-2008 had some good times but they just don't stack up to SP1. It's not fair to compare them, and SP2 suffers in comparison. But that doesn't mean SP2 has been all bad - it just doesn't hold a candle to SP1.

One thing the past 8 years has taught me is that I have no interest in anything Billy does if Jimmy is not involved.

Ram27
08-07-2015, 03:35 AM
I'd rather have James back than Jimmy at this point

The Reel Time Sessions and Adore sounded cool. Superchrist and Zeitgeist had some badass fuckin drums but not much soul to it.
Listen to what this guy said in some old thread:

I strongly believe that the trademark Smashing Pumpkins guitar tone on songs like "Cherub Rock" and "Geek USA" was largely in part James Iha's contributions. Billy wrote all the lyrics and the majority of the riffs, but James came up with his awesome drop-ins and created the ethereal textures that we came to love. Without him, we are left with a generic metal tone and power chord thump riffs. See: Doomsday Clock.

Ram27
08-07-2015, 03:35 AM
the grass is always greener though innit

Cool As Ice Cream
08-07-2015, 03:40 AM
ur always greener

dreams of glass
08-07-2015, 03:55 AM
James definitely brought something to the table, perhaps it was the dynamic between him and Billy that helped push the music to new creative levels that Billy on his own could not have achieved.

I think that James' approach was maybe a little more artsy and self aware of rock pretensions, which in turn kept Billy in check.

It's interesting to see Jeff playing James' guitar lines, because while "The Shredder" is perhaps more technically proficient, a lot of times, he misses the subtlety and overall context of the music.

Ram27
08-07-2015, 04:12 AM
James was so sarcastic it was the only way to sell some of the stuff they did. Like 'if he's into it it must be pretty legit'

Cool As Ice Cream
08-07-2015, 04:19 AM
James definitely brought something to the table, perhaps it was the dynamic between him and Billy that helped push the music to new creative levels that Billy on his own could not have achieved.

perhaps it was chlamydia.

Corgan's Bluff
08-07-2015, 11:24 AM
perhaps it was chlamydia.

They were really close friends in the early days, Billy and James. Why have they done this thing with the women clothes?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMASHING-PUMPKINS-10x8-inch-lab-printed-glossy-photo-F8-1402-/221366916734?hash=item338a7f167e

Corgan's Bluff
08-07-2015, 11:29 AM
Jeff, the "perfect" guitarist, 2:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNBePHBhgqA&feature=youtu.be

amoergosum
08-07-2015, 11:48 AM
Jeff, the "perfect" guitarist, 2:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNBePHBhgqA&feature=youtu.be

At least he didn't just play a scale like...;) >>>
https://youtu.be/cYntph76io8?t=2m24s

dreams of glass
08-09-2015, 02:59 AM
still waiting on a good comp from the residencies

this, I think, is one of the best things from that era

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/x8eLaKptYXk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mattisnotfrench
08-09-2015, 01:24 PM
still waiting on a good comp from the residencies



Did nobody ever make one? I made a few private ones back in 2007 or so but they weren't very good. I've thought about trying it again.

I only saw SP once, and it was in 2008. Obviously my frame of reference is all off - particularly since I could have gone to the United Center show in 2000 and didn't, because I was 19 and stupid. But the other night I listened to the show I did see, Paris 2008, and it sounded good. Shockingly good. Not SP1 good, but about as good as you can expect for SP2. The burnout hadn't started yet, Jimmy killed it on the drums, and they played Behold the Night Mare, Lily, Porcelina, The Everlasting Gaze, Try Try Try, Stellar, Wound and some others. United States was fantastic. I was right up front and it was great.

At this point, I remember how disappointed so many people were with that era, and it's amazing to think how great it sounds in comparison with everything that came afterwards.

Mals Marola
08-09-2015, 07:29 PM
Behold the Night Mare, Lily, Porcelina, The Everlasting Gaze, Try Try Try, Stellar, Wound...

damn, sounds like a dream setlist i'd have come up with myself

Shallowed
08-09-2015, 07:40 PM
T&T made a compilation of the residency songs

dreams of glass
08-10-2015, 04:30 AM
any chance anyone has a link for that?

Cool As Ice Cream
08-10-2015, 05:02 AM
here you go: https://www.sendspace.com/file/2fmxvf (http://lemonparty.org)

dreams of glass
08-10-2015, 05:27 AM
http://new4.fjcdn.com/comments/Gazajunk+rolled+a+random+image+posted+in+comment+4 028+at+_b0333b23020e82e58379b320524ebfc4.png

Mals Marola
08-10-2015, 05:45 AM
no it's a real link

if that doesn't work for you i uploaded to a mirror

http://www.mediafire.com/download/9uf95r6qnjinkr1/ (http://www.tubgirl.ca)

dreams of glass
08-10-2015, 06:13 AM
wow my computer exploded when i clicked that link mals

what have you done

KissesandNoise
08-11-2015, 07:01 PM
James definitely brought something to the table, perhaps it was the dynamic between him and Billy that helped push the music to new creative levels that Billy on his own could not have achieved.

I think that James' approach was maybe a little more artsy and self aware of rock pretensions, which in turn kept Billy in check.

It's interesting to see Jeff playing James' guitar lines, because while "The Shredder" is perhaps more technically proficient, a lot of times, he misses the subtlety and overall context of the music.

I think James, in those days, was fashioned by Billy. His guitar tone, his style, his guitar parts were informed and instructed by Billy. He became his own player but his playing was cultivated by Billiam. James put his own style on that.

It's Jimmy that is Billy's muse. Their musical relationship IS the Pumpkins. James and D'arcy had the hipster influence and reigned the two of them in from the brink of prog-metal overload. Their influence was keeping the music cool and I finally realize how important that influence was on Billy. James and D'arcy were lovey-dovey and heavily influenced by goth and new wave. James wanted to be Echo and the Bunnymen Part 2. I think both of them were turned off and tuned out when the music veered towards the heavy side. They reeled it back the other way.

This is a hunch, but despite Jimmy's preternatural musical prowess, they were happy when he was gone. Adore is much more a scene they wanted to be a part of. I think they were intimidated by the musicianship of Billy/Jimmy and felt like it was us vs. them when Jimmy was in the band. They didn't want to be Rush, they wanted to be The Smiths.

Ram27
08-11-2015, 08:52 PM
That sounds accurate.

If you listen to the last Silverfuck jam versus Gossamer, it's very telling of the good influences James/D'arcy had on the band

I feel like Jimmy, in theory, would've/should've contributed a lightness to the music as well, seeing as he spent like 10 years studying jazz and everything. But I guess a drummer can't change the entire sound like that so dramatically. Best he can do is try to fit what the guitars are doing. Fucking Jeff.

________

they were intimidated by the musicianship of Billy/Jimmy and felt like it was us vs. them when Jimmy was in the band

James and D’arcy are much more comfortable with Butch around because they feel that there is someone new to pay attention to them and heed any of their concerns…this is something Jimmy and I silently find amusing, because there is a bit of a show to the whole thing that we are long bored with…behind the scenes, there is one way we do business, but in front of anyone else, it’s just a charade that I tolerate…

Mals Marola
08-12-2015, 12:02 AM
James and D'arcy were lovey-dovey and heavily influenced by goth and new wave. James wanted to be Echo and the Bunnymen Part 2. I think both of them were turned off and tuned out when the music veered towards the heavy side. They reeled it back the other way.

This is a hunch, but despite Jimmy's preternatural musical prowess, they were happy when he was gone. Adore is much more a scene they wanted to be a part of. I think they were intimidated by the musicianship of Billy/Jimmy and felt like it was us vs. them when Jimmy was in the band. They didn't want to be Rush, they wanted to be The Smiths.

this is all speculation based on the general idea that d'arcy & james were total hipsters because they had a different haircut then bc. both iha & d'arcy were noted pantera fans & they sure didn't seem "tuned out" during the majority of the heavy tracks you see from the mellon collie tour. if anything it seemed they, or at least d'arcy, had a bigger problem with adore. didn't she specifically call it out as "not a pumpkins record," even?

in short,

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9vQaVIoEjOM?rel=0&amp;showinfo=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

KissesandNoise
08-12-2015, 04:19 PM
this is all speculation based on the general idea that d'arcy & james were total hipsters because they had a different haircut then bc. both iha & d'arcy were noted pantera fans & they sure didn't seem "tuned out" during the majority of the heavy tracks you see from the mellon collie tour. if anything it seemed they, or at least d'arcy, had a bigger problem with adore. didn't she specifically call it out as "not a pumpkins record," even?

Ha! Total speculation.

Billy is kind of in his own head while James and D'arcy were sort of known for being hip. It's pretty well documented that they were more in touch with trending music than the others and Billy mentioned how she would kind of give her opinions about songs in the studio and he sort of listened to her. James got really into Ryan Adams and started dressing like an alt-country dude in the Adore era. Plus all of James's songs are snoozers that have a sort new wave or alt folk sound to them. He never wrote a scorcher.

It's just hints dropped in interviews; things that sounded passive aggressive or body language. Part of what made James fun was his calling out of rock cliches. I felt like it was his way of dealing what he felt they had become. I remember an interview with the three of them on MTV right after Jimmy was fired. D'arcy somehow got the microphone and sort of talked shit about Jimmy. She said his playing was suffering and it was interfering with the band in Europe before they got to NY for the whole overdose thing. Billy had to cut her off because what she was saying was ludicrous. I think everyone knows that if Jimmy nods off on heroin that someone could throw a bucket of water on his face and put sticks in his hands and he would play better than 90% of professional rock drummers.

slunken
08-12-2015, 04:28 PM
James got really into Ryan Adams and started dressing like an alt-country dude in the Adore era.

The Eagles and Allman Bros to be more specific. His guitar playing shows it, too.

KissesandNoise
08-12-2015, 04:33 PM
I feel like Jimmy, in theory, would've/should've contributed a lightness to the music as well, seeing as he spent like 10 years studying jazz and everything. But I guess a drummer can't change the entire sound like that so dramatically. Best he can do is try to fit what the guitars are doing. Fucking Jeff.

________

I think he did whatever was necessary for the song. They were Billy's songs. I feel like he certainly contributed a lightness when called on. Playing with brushes or hot rods. Delicate songs or songs that change like "Hummer." I have a bootleg called Drown. It is a compilation of live songs and outtakes from around 92-93. The first 5 songs are from that pre-release performance for SD where they introduce the songs on acoustic is phenomenal. Jimmy essentially reworks all the songs on brushes as opposed to just playing quieter.

KissesandNoise
08-12-2015, 04:36 PM
The Eagles and Allman Bros to be more specific. His guitar playing shows it, too.

I heard him mention his adoration for Ryan Adams. I didn't know he got into classic southern jam.

His guitar playing certainly came into its own during the Machina era. The end of "This Time" is essentially one long solo and James was nailing it live while staring at the ceiling.

slunken
08-12-2015, 05:53 PM
I didn't know he got into classic southern jam.

Its not southern like southern rock. It comes from the Bakersfield country western and Laurel Canyon folk scenes both of California. It's the classic 70s California smooth rock style. Denim and glissando.

BurtSampson
09-16-2016, 08:46 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O07tzI2Vo8Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

the part at 44:19 where we get to see what a petulant twat Billy is.

or the part at an 1:00:19 where his assistant is like in tears and is like "he's mean to me but I know he means well. he even calls me mommy and says I take care of him cause my mom never did." JEEEEESSUS

Ram27
09-16-2016, 09:02 PM
corgan looked scarily thin during that era

BurtSampson
09-16-2016, 09:11 PM
corgan looked scarily thin during that era

my money is and has always been on amphetamines.

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 01:13 PM
Watching this for the first time right now. God this is some cringey shit.

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 01:13 PM
"He builds the archetype and then he destroys it because the archetype is always changing"

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 01:14 PM
:think:

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 01:15 PM
"I'm so glad you guys are back together because my friend died and I found his body and I'm so glad you guys are back together and oh hey here's a creepy plaster model of your creepy head"

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 01:16 PM
Billy: "Yeah, thanks. Listen, I gotta get back to work"

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 01:17 PM
Oh, and now I've hit the stretch where they try to spin the narrative that James (and D'arcy) didn't matter.

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 01:17 PM
Did anyone actually genuinely enjoy this?

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 01:34 PM
Two more points:

Kateri is not a real name

Billy in a nightie is really gross

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 01:56 PM
"I could feel the Native American spirits beneath Alcatraz"

Oh, wow. What ever happened to this Kateri idiot? She's fucking hilarious!

BurtSampson
09-18-2016, 03:27 PM
rumor has it she's still living backstage at the Fillmore. she hasn't left since 07

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 03:40 PM
I can feel her spirit beneath the Fillmore.

FlamingGlobes
09-18-2016, 03:41 PM
Seriously, can someone give me a little more info about this Kateri moron? I was completely checked out of whatever was going on with the band between 2008 - 2011.

cork_soaker
09-18-2016, 04:37 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O07tzI2Vo8Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



i spy a monte
http://i.imgur.com/k1lmERK.jpg

New Art Rioter
09-19-2016, 01:12 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O07tzI2Vo8Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

the part at 44:19 where we get to see what a petulant twat Billy is.

or the part at an 1:00:19 where his assistant is like in tears and is like "he's mean to me but I know he means well. he even calls me mommy and says I take care of him cause my mom never did." JEEEEESSUS


That's such an odd/inappropriate thing to say to an employee

myosis
09-19-2016, 02:41 PM
i summed it up thus once in a blue moon
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=163739

teh b0lly!!1
09-19-2016, 03:02 PM
holy shit, i never caught that mommy thing

that is really billy going full monty.

see what i did there