View Full Version : How to tell the difference between MCIS original and reissue


CrabbMan
12-30-2013, 04:14 PM
I'm trying to re-organize my mp3s. I'd like to keep separate copies of the original mastering and the reissue, but my folders weren't well labeled. i'm listening to what I thought was the original but I'm having trouble telling the difference (untroo fan?). Anyone recall a quick noticeable difference?

Of course, this might lead one to ask, if I can't even tell the difference between the two, why bother keep separate copies?

Trotskilicious
12-30-2013, 04:35 PM
first pressing has a great big dick on the cover

CrabbMan
12-30-2013, 04:37 PM
Hmm, can't find any dicks in my mp3s.

Trotskilicious
12-30-2013, 04:46 PM
well i think you just discovered why reissues are for suckers

slunken
12-30-2013, 06:05 PM
I'm trying to re-organize my mp3s. I'd like to keep separate copies of the original mastering and the reissue, but my folders weren't well labeled. i'm listening to what I thought was the original but I'm having trouble telling the difference (untroo fan?). Anyone recall a quick noticeable difference?

Of course, this might lead one to ask, if I can't even tell the difference between the two, why bother keep separate copies?

I have downloaded, added, and deleted thousands SP-albums and bootlegs. The same things time and time again.

The easiest thing that comes to mind would be to check your file info. When it was added or created or even how many times it's been played.

So if you can't tell the difference that means you haven't been listening to either of them. Delete one or both and try again.

Ram27
12-30-2013, 06:28 PM
Are there any legitimately noticeable differences in the reissue versions, though?

slunken
12-30-2013, 06:31 PM
Well one of them I can't remember which has a ton of bonus CD's that go with it

slunken
12-30-2013, 06:32 PM
It's like a bunch of bonus tracks and stuff.

adamdanger!
12-31-2013, 09:53 AM
Reissue replaces the Doom explosion with the sound of a cash register.

Glopaiswe
12-31-2013, 10:09 AM
The sounds at the beginning of In the Arms of Sleep are noticeably louder in the reissue.

CrabbMan
12-31-2013, 01:15 PM
The sounds at the beginning of In the Arms of Sleep are noticeably louder in the reissue.

Good call.

redbreegull
12-31-2013, 02:03 PM
shouldn't the entirety of the reissue be noticeably louder and more punchy? I don't have the MCIS one, but listening to songs from Gish and SD (original and reissue back to back) it is immediately clear which one is which

slunken
12-31-2013, 02:50 PM
It's all so slipshod and willy nilly I'm surprised they got the songs in the right order.

slunken
12-31-2013, 02:53 PM
The fact that a song like Blank was given a previously non-existent reverb boost to the vocal without any written indication of doing so makes me suspicious of all the other songs.

slunken
12-31-2013, 02:54 PM
Wasn't there a song on the PI reissue that was an entirely different take?

slunken
12-31-2013, 02:55 PM
I mean, it says FULLY REMASTERED right on it

slunken
12-31-2013, 02:59 PM
Has anybody seen one of those "making of the album" documentaries on netflix? those guys are mixing and isolating channels like crazy

CrabbMan
12-31-2013, 04:42 PM
Plume has a different vocal take, but I think the rest of the track is the same.

Shallowed
12-31-2013, 05:33 PM
When the Gish and SD reissues were in the works, Billy mentioned how he couldn't remember which mixes were the final ones that were used, so he had to listen to every mix until he could narrow it down.

If that is true, there's likely a lot more differences in the mixes than we've spotted.

slunken
12-31-2013, 05:33 PM
Yea that's insane.

T&T
12-31-2013, 05:47 PM
That's if you assume they printed lots of different mixes that were similar.

slunken
12-31-2013, 06:47 PM
It's a guessing game.

Ram27
12-31-2013, 11:36 PM
Just release the multitracks and we can have as many mixes as we want.

teh b0lly!!1
01-02-2014, 11:48 AM
i remember thinking while listening to it that it had a lot more top end/treble than the original
who fucking cares though

T&T
01-02-2014, 12:10 PM
are both original and mastered files mixed into the same folder? do you need to tell apart EACH track or are they still grouped into different folders?

has this problem been resolved?

qlitchford
01-02-2014, 12:46 PM
are both original and mastered files mixed into the same folder? do you need to tell apart EACH track or are they still grouped into different folders?

has this problem been resolved?

Wait wait wait.... are we being helpful? Shiiiit.

Already OP, post some screenshots of your folder layout. Have you used any metadata tools to compare? MP3tag is fantastic if you're on Windows.

CrabbMan
01-02-2014, 08:36 PM
Problem solved. I just downloaded the album tracks from torrents that were more than a couple years old.

O'Doyle Rules
01-03-2014, 07:54 PM
For the reissue in the Ruby track. You can still here the ebow guitars into to Mellon Collie Reprise ~7:00 to 7:10. In the original they fade out

slunken
01-03-2014, 09:28 PM
For the reissue in the Ruby track. You can still here the ebow guitars into to Mellon Collie Reprise ~7:00 to 7:10. In the original they fade out

this is the kind of shit i'm talking about.

T&T
01-03-2014, 11:55 PM
it's more apparent in the remaster, but the ebow is still present in the original, just buried a bit more. the feedback squeals in the reprise part are also brought out more in the remaster. This is the kind of thing you'd expect would happen with a remastering. it's not a new mix.

themadcaplaughs
01-04-2014, 12:22 AM
Reissue replaces the Doom explosion sound of a .

Best post I've read in a while.

slunken
01-04-2014, 07:54 PM
it's more apparent in the remaster, but the ebow is still present in the original, just buried a bit more. the feedback squeals in the reprise part are also brought out more in the remaster. This is the kind of thing you'd expect would happen with a remastering. it's not a new mix.

But history shows that some tracks are entirely new mixes without being indicated as such.

slunken
01-04-2014, 07:57 PM
You can't tell me that Bill won't fiddle with the channels, given the opportunity. He's a revisionist, and that's how the previous reissue "mistakes" have happened.

O'Doyle Rules
01-08-2014, 10:15 PM
it's more apparent in the remaster, but the ebow is still present in the original, just buried a bit more. the feedback squeals in the reprise part are also brought out more in the remaster. This is the kind of thing you'd expect would happen with a remastering. it's not a new mix.

I never said it was missing or a different mix was used. My post was a direct response to the OP.

Ram27
01-27-2015, 07:49 PM
For the reissue in the Ruby track. You can still here the ebow guitars into to Mellon Collie Reprise ~7:00 to 7:10. In the original they fade out

At 1:35 in Rocket the guitar stutter thing in the right channel is a lot more prominent


I'm assuming this is the 'explicit examples of differences in the remastered albums' thread

dreams of glass
01-28-2015, 12:48 AM
I couldn't hear a difference in the MCIS re-issue

Dogfighter28
01-28-2015, 06:59 AM
The reissue sounds like trash and the original has charm

teh b0lly!!1
01-28-2015, 08:27 AM
That's if you assume they printed lots of different mixes that were similar.

this was common practice in the analogue days, which applies to SD

by the time you were finished you really didn't want to have to come back and do it all over again because the artist or the label asked for a bit more vocal in the mix

so they'd print the same mix in like 10-12 variations, +\-1 db for vocals, guitars, drums, whatever

Mals Marola
01-28-2015, 08:50 AM
i'd once lined up bodies (original master) & the remaster up together in an audio editing program & had 'em playing simultaneously, with only one track solo'd at a time. i was able to quickly/seamlessly go back & forth between the tracks & honestly, the differences were practically inaudible. the audioforms did look somewhat different but it wasn't quite the revelation that was the gish remaster (you could listen to i am one both versions back to back & tell where the improvements have been made)

only different takes/mixes i can recall having been used so far are plume (he's not singing over the solo anymore :( ) & glynis (entirely different ending vocal take, possibly different take for the whole song? i only noticed the outro, but boy it's noticeable)

to be fair they did mark glynis as "2012 mix" but plume didn't really have any indication as such of the nonsense contained (or not contained) within

Ram27
01-28-2015, 01:18 PM
Glynis is the first evidence of Billy making bad choices in the studio

The live version from No Alternative is so so good

ninsp
01-28-2015, 01:21 PM
The reissue sounds like trash and the original has charm

^^this

freshfacedyouth
01-28-2015, 02:05 PM
glynis on the pisces reissue is pretty much an alternate version altogether iirc. i remember it sounding strange and alien to me. the stuff that made the original so good was largely gone or replaced with something less satisfying

so the version from no alternative is definitely superior, as ram said, but it is nice to have an alternate take

freshfacedyouth
01-28-2015, 02:08 PM
didn't they fix plume on later copies of the reissue? i think i have one of the fucked up versions, i'm not into the way plume sounds on it at all. i end up having to listen to the proper version on my phone

Mals Marola
01-28-2015, 03:03 PM
hell if i know

as for glynis though... talk about a hidden gem
they pretty much played it that one time then never, ever again
only thing coming close is the absence of whir in any live set ever

slunken
01-28-2015, 03:26 PM
didn't they fix plume on later copies of the reissue?

lol why would they spend money to do that

reprise85
01-28-2015, 03:55 PM
glynis is an absolutely amazing song. some of billy's best lyrics.

slunken
01-28-2015, 05:52 PM
i don't mind any of the remastered audio, at least digitally. at best, some of the songs have a lot more headroom and things are slightly less muddy, at least as far as MCIS goes.

on siamese dream the vocal effects are more obvious. the guitars seem a bit crisper.

imo opinion everything just sounds cleaner, which can be both good and bad. its interesting to be focusing on different parts of songs (layering) you never noticed and stuff like that. this is all headphone listening of course...

its remastered audio -> it does the job

killtrocity
01-28-2015, 06:35 PM
I'm trying to re-organize my mp3s. I'd like to keep separate copies of the original mastering and the reissue, but my folders weren't well labeled. i'm listening to what I thought was the original but I'm having trouble telling the difference (untroo fan?). Anyone recall a quick noticeable difference?

Of course, this might lead one to ask, if I can't even tell the difference between the two, why bother keep separate copies?

the intro to in the arms of sleep is much louder in the reissue. that is all i remember

ButtHash
01-28-2015, 07:12 PM
You can hear so much detail in the intro to Soma on the SD reissue. I heard things in ways I hadn't heard before

Dogfighter28
01-28-2015, 07:56 PM
The problem with the audio is it makes it sound manufactured and takes all the mystery away

I was able to guess Porcelina as the remaster when it came on shuffle because I was astounded at how jarringly concrete everything sounded. Like they pieced it together. I want it to sound like a wash of noise.

teh b0lly!!1
01-29-2015, 01:32 AM
that's precisely the thing, many times what sounds 'better' simply doesn't suit the song

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 02:58 AM
Remasters are stupid

I just like a few of the bonus tracks per release

fuzzyroes
01-29-2015, 03:47 AM
Yeah, I never even listen to the remastered tracks. I just download the bonus tracks.

I mean you have Siamese Dream produced by Butch Vig and MCIS produced by Moulder and Flood... Both are CLASSIC albums.

What is the need to re-master any of these? They were already produced by the best in the business and were very high budget releases. What could be gained by messing around with the originals?

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 04:35 AM
$$$$$

Ram27
01-29-2015, 08:04 AM
Remasters are stupid

I just like a few of the bonus tracks per release

I'd say more than a few

Never Let Me Down Again appreciation thread

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 08:53 AM
The Cure's Faith is the best case of remastering i ever heard & it actually kind of "awakened" me to the album in general, not just its bonus material

ninsp
01-29-2015, 09:10 AM
Yeah, I never even listen to the remastered tracks. I just download the bonus tracks.

I mean you have Siamese Dream produced by Butch Vig and MCIS produced by Moulder and Flood... Both are CLASSIC albums.

What is the need to re-master any of these? They were already produced by the best in the business and were very high budget releases. What could be gained by messing around with the originals?

That's why it's a remaster and not a reproduction.

MCIS is terribly mastered. Listen to Thirty-Three or To Forgive on a car stereo with a subwoofer.

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 09:19 AM
to forgive's a speaker-buster, for sure

listening to 33 in a car is hilarious

*ding ding ding dong ding ding* BOOOOOMMMMMM!!@!@!:L$Krjanslkdnasdrklj

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 09:21 AM
Every thing sounds bad in a car and people who blast stuff all loud are the worst.

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 09:26 AM
bullshit

what do you even mean by blast stuff? playing it loud or having subs that'll radiate every nearby building & structure in a half-mile radius

cos i can agree with the latter, that shit's not even enjoyable to ride in (speaking from 1 isolated experience where i rode with my friend's brother & his subbed-out car)

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 09:27 AM
but yeah if i'm going to be playing anything in a car it's goin to be loud, provide i don't have some splitting headache that day or whatev

& bless the toyote speakers that can handle it!

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 09:35 AM
Music should be listened to privately with headphones or ear buds

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 09:36 AM
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-10/enhanced/webdr06/29/18/enhanced-buzz-15666-1383084781-22.jpg

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 09:37 AM
Music should be listened to privately with headphones or ear buds

uh, if you're deathly afraid of losing your lease or something maybe

fucking live a little, seriously

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 09:39 AM
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-10/enhanced/webdr06/29/18/enhanced-buzz-15666-1383084781-22.jpg

this was a funny satire when it aired but i guess it had more influence on THE KIDS than we thought :O

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 09:40 AM
now if you'll excuse me i've got some records i'd really like to hear loud in a car

a hundred miles is a long drive inside a car!

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 09:42 AM
They say music should be fun
like writing a story of love
But I want to read a horror story

ninsp
01-29-2015, 09:53 AM
Every thing sounds bad in a car and people who blast stuff all loud are the worst.

You must be so much fun to be around. I'm not saying I have 3 15" subwoofers but a lot of MCIS is unlistenable with one top end Alpine 10" subwoofer and high end Alpine speakers all around me. If you have good headphones with a decent low end, such as a nice pair of Sennheisers...guess what? Those two songs will sound bad too.

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 10:03 AM
"subwoofers"

Bleck

topleybird
01-29-2015, 10:21 AM
I was able to guess Porcelina as the remaster when it came on shuffle because I was astounded at how jarringly concrete everything sounded. Like they pieced it together. I want it to sound like a wash of noise.

I always come away from posts like these wondering if I'm like 90% deaf because I've never put on one of these reissues, or any remastered song of any kind, and heard the slightest difference from the original

So, out of curiosity, and I mean this sincerely (i.e., I am, for once, not being a sarcastic jerk): when you hear this kind of difference, do you think it's contingent upon the quality of the speaker/headphone you're using, or would you be able to tell on just about any piece of equipment? Do you have a background in audio production or are you just a casual listener? Are you unusually good at listening or I am unusually awful?

ninsp
01-29-2015, 10:29 AM
"subwoofers"

Bleck

The average sound system (inside or outside) can't produce low enough range to hit the low notes in the music. If you listen to music without subwoofers, you're missing a good quarter of the music. Just saying.

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 10:38 AM
I feel like a quarter has to be an overestimation

ninsp
01-29-2015, 10:45 AM
I feel like a quarter has to be an overestimation

It's not. Most speakers that aren't floor standing or high-quality bookshelf get to about 100 Hz at their lowest point. Many recordings go as low as 48 Hz.

slunken
01-29-2015, 10:53 AM
I always come away from posts like these wondering if I'm like 90% deaf because I've never put on one of these reissues, or any remastered song of any kind, and heard the slightest difference from the original

So, out of curiosity, and I mean this sincerely (i.e., I am, for once, not being a sarcastic jerk): when you hear this kind of difference, do you think it's contingent upon the quality of the speaker/headphone you're using, or would you be able to tell on just about any piece of equipment? Do you have a background in audio production or are you just a casual listener? Are you unusually good at listening or I am unusually awful?

Standard shitty iphone/iPod earbuds. For me I think it comes from listening to an album a bajillion times. But I'm also interested in production and like to use words like "headroom"

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 10:59 AM
for what it's worth all you have to do to hear the difference in gish is play the first five seconds of I Am One from each (the original & the remasta)

if there ain't already a "back & forth" on the mellon collie reissue vs. the original on youtube or whatever i might make one in a minute :mrpimp:

Dogfighter28
01-29-2015, 11:07 AM
I'm highly sensitive to audio. I can tell the difference. I'm not trying to be brash, as it could be more of a curse than anything.

I noticed the difference while listening on my car stereo, where I've heard the song and album in question probably ten times.

bye june
01-29-2015, 11:40 AM
The remasters are pretty great for the most part. I recently listened to the Gish remaster with headphones and it sounded better than the original.

topleybird
01-29-2015, 11:48 AM
if there ain't already a "back & forth" on the mellon collie reissue vs. the original on youtube or whatever i might make one in a minute :mrpimp:

Hmm, I could probably use something like this -- I haven't actually tried listening to the reissues right up against the originals.

Kind of downhearted that y'all can hear things without the use of unfeasibly expensive audio equipment but also kind of, uh, uphearted at the notion that maybe I just need to stop relying on my memory of what the originals sound like. Thanks for the input, you crazy kids.

washer
01-29-2015, 12:05 PM
Yeah I listened to the porcelina reissue version after reading PRBB's comments and could not discern any damned difference whatsoever

washer
01-29-2015, 12:08 PM
then i perused a bunch of the various reissue tracks, same thing

it was interesting to listen to the different guitar treatment from album to album, though
surprisingly i'd never made direct comparisons before
oceania's sounded so cold and clumpy; i did not care much for it. was my least favorite sound

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 01:50 PM
Hmm, I could probably use something like this -- I haven't actually tried listening to the reissues right up against the originals.

actually doin this now, & so far the main one that is noticeably different is indeed arms of sleep - & not just the intro, the whole thing is very, very obviously different to the original

whereas porcelina for instance is damn near identical

like bodies is subtle but any differences in porcelina are virtually undetectable, seems like

Mals Marola
01-29-2015, 02:39 PM
wow, comparing the remastered lily to the old one makes me think they were goin for some kind of 50s vinyl mastering effect with the original

pretty startling, almost sounds like it's coming out of a telephone or something, i never really noticed before

ButtHash
01-29-2015, 05:18 PM
"subwoofers"

Bleck

God you are such a fucking nerdy prick.
Subwoofers actually do have a purpose. People don't just get them cus they want their system to 'bang'

slunken
01-29-2015, 05:26 PM
Subwoofers actually do have a purpose. People don't just get them cus they want their system to 'bang'

that IS their purpose

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 06:39 PM
I am a nerdy prick though

Trotskilicious
01-29-2015, 06:39 PM
I can tell zeppelin remasters are crisper and i dunno fuller than the originals

Elphenor
01-29-2015, 06:43 PM
Subwoofers... Whoa, like not bodacious dude

http://queerty-prodweb.s3.amazonaws.com/wp/docs/2014/10/Keanu-Reeves-1.jpg

Trotskilicious
01-29-2015, 07:24 PM
Sittin sideways

ButtHash
01-29-2015, 07:47 PM
^ great little doc on Still Tippin' here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXw-1djmYNE

fack. Oh shit no, that's from the Paw Wall song.

ninsp
01-30-2015, 10:08 AM
God you are such a fucking nerdy prick.
Subwoofers actually do have a purpose. People don't just get them cus they want their system to 'bang'

literally, the biggest fucking loser on this board

Elphenor
01-30-2015, 03:22 PM
The butthurt on display here....

It's glorious

Poots
01-30-2015, 03:39 PM
I think they totally fucked up Glynis in the reissue. The original was a top three Pumpkins song for me, but the new one is kind of silly.

As far as sub frequencies go, try running a lot of pumkins music through a frequency analyzer and look at all the low end in songs like Silverfuck and other heavy stuff. Right off the board, lower than 20hz shit that only whales can hear. And at pretty high levels. Those sub 80hz kick drums punch you in the chest and you need a good subwoofer to get that.

Overdone subs are shitty though, I'll grant you that. People need to learn to eq their systems to get a good balance.

slunken
01-30-2015, 03:46 PM
Poots did you get my letter?

Mals Marola
01-30-2015, 04:00 PM
what're you doin elphenor using the dark & misunderstood charm to woo all the board members' sisters or somethin?

slunken
01-30-2015, 04:02 PM
^ great little doc on Still Tippin' here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXw-1djmYNE

fack. Oh shit no, that's from the Paw Wall song.

not sure why you posted this but Still Tippin is one of my favorite rap songs of all time.

slunken
01-30-2015, 04:17 PM
i get fairly sentimental over houston rap circa 2004-2006

slunken
01-30-2015, 04:23 PM
"wrapped in 4 Vo's" ie Vo Tires

ooooohhhhhhhhhh

Mals Marola
01-30-2015, 04:31 PM
screw was the best part of all that stuff, i'm virtually non-anti-modern-rap these days tho vs. then when i was completely avoiding of it

LOST IN THE DAZE

Elphenor
01-30-2015, 04:42 PM
what're you doin elphenor using the dark & misunderstood charm to woo all the board members' sisters or somethin?

You would think people would understand how serious I'm not being through my use of a South Park Goth.

But basically you are a complete tool if you subject others to your music through loud audio, nobody likes that.

Mals Marola
01-30-2015, 05:14 PM
y... yeah

i think the attitude for most is that they just want to hear loud music

can't speak for all the xTREME sub-boomers though, i guess

The exploding boy
01-30-2015, 06:16 PM
I kinda agree with elph here.

There' lots of twattery that goes on with audio. And a lot of people who convince themselves they hear things they don't. Same thing with music gear.

Poots
01-30-2015, 06:43 PM
Poots did you get my letter?

The one with the used panties? Yes I did. My lawyer wants to prosecute, but I can't stay mad at you.

Poots
01-30-2015, 06:45 PM
But basically you are a complete tool if you subject others to your music through loud audio, nobody likes that.

Not if it's Tool.

Mals Marola
01-30-2015, 07:07 PM
I kinda agree with elph here.

There' lots of twattery that goes on with audio. And a lot of people who convince themselves they hear things they don't. Same thing with music gear.

have i been lying to myself about the volume of my music this entire time? i don't think i'm ready for that

Poots
01-30-2015, 07:17 PM
You don't know what you're hearing. Here, just listen to all of your music on this three inch mono speaker. It doesn't matter. You're going to die anyway.

Trotskilicious
01-30-2015, 07:25 PM
"wrapped in 4 Vo's" ie Vo Tires

ooooohhhhhhhhhh

I thought it was 4 4 ie 44 inch rims

Poots
01-30-2015, 07:28 PM
that would be a tractor wheel, wouldn't it?

killtrocity
01-30-2015, 07:49 PM
where rap meets country. She thinks my 44"s are sexy

killtrocity
01-30-2015, 07:51 PM
Music should be listened to privately with headphones or ear buds

you sound like me roommate, who plays his ocarina on friday nights and goes to church thrice weekly

Trotskilicious
01-30-2015, 07:53 PM
that would be a tractor wheel, wouldn't it?

Guess you havent seen a tricked out impala lately

killtrocity
01-30-2015, 07:56 PM
The Cure's Faith is the best case of remastering i ever heard & it actually kind of "awakened" me to the album in general, not just its bonus material

I notice this is the case with a lot of stuff from 1980ish to about 1992, particularly stuff with thick beats like Faith, Depeche Mode, Pretty Hate Machine, Talking Heads

slunken
01-30-2015, 08:25 PM
I thought it was 4 4 ie 44 inch rims

its 4x4" rims which were first introduced in 1984 (and were extremely difficult to find for a while - people were being murdered for these rims) with Vo yellow/white wall tires

"still tippin 4x4's / wrapped in 4 Vo's"

rims/tires

ButtHash
01-30-2015, 10:12 PM
not sure why you posted this but Still Tippin is one of my favorite rap songs of all time.

cussa this:

Sittin sideways

but i forgot it's not even from that song. I don't know, I was in a strange mood. Yes. Still Tippin is pretty much perfect.

I think they totally fucked up Glynis in the reissue. The original was a top three Pumpkins song for me, but the new one is kind of silly.


I love the reissue version.

Elphenor
01-31-2015, 01:20 AM
you sound like me roommate, who plays his ocarina on friday nights and goes to church thrice weekly

If I met people who wanted to party to The Cure I'd probably get down pretty hard

teh b0lly!!1
01-31-2015, 03:35 AM
I kinda agree with elph here.

There' lots of twattery that goes on with audio. And a lot of people who convince themselves they hear things they don't. Same thing with music gear.

this consistently amazes me

some people pay serious dough for CABLES
they did a test once where they took self proclaimed heavy audiophiles and made them listen to music on very high end cables, and then thorugh the same system, hooked up with coat hangers

they couldn't tell the difference

Trotskilicious
01-31-2015, 04:14 AM
its 4x4" rims which were first introduced in 1984 (and were extremely difficult to find for a while - people were being murdered for these rims) with Vo yellow/white wall tires

"still tippin 4x4's / wrapped in 4 Vo's"

rims/tires

well sir

Trotskilicious
01-31-2015, 04:15 AM
i fucking love the dirty south

slunken
01-31-2015, 08:16 AM
correction - the tire brand is Vogue

http://www.texanwirewheels.com/images/pic1nwsltr_84.gif

these are the 1984 spoke rims

The exploding boy
01-31-2015, 01:26 PM
this consistently amazes me

some people pay serious dough for CABLES
they did a test once where they took self proclaimed heavy audiophiles and made them listen to music on very high end cables, and then thorugh the same system, hooked up with coat hangers

they couldn't tell the difference

yep. Typical. Some companies laugh all the way to the bank. They KNOW there is virtually no difference. Or none that you can hear anyway. But theyre not gonna market it to you this way.


I mean for sure there is a certain basic level of quality you want to have in audio equipment (like i may 99% of the time listen to music on headphones but i certainly cant do earbuds, my headphones are not worth 200$ but they're not worth 30$ either), but past a certain level, it's all just mainly bullshit.

Poots
01-31-2015, 01:58 PM
I was talking to this incredible audiophile one time about headphones and asked him for some advice. This guy had spent thousands every year on this high end shit. I told him I was looking for some headphones in the $100-150 range, thinking that would be near the top end, and he said I might be able to find some decent starter headphones for that price but he doubted it. I asked him how much his were and he said he couldn't remember but he thought it was over $1,500. Reflexively, I blurted out "Oh my God, you're an idiot." I had to backpedal to smooth things out, but my God, what an idiot.

Gooch
02-01-2015, 12:50 AM
I love that story . . .

SensibleChuckle
02-01-2015, 01:14 AM
I was talking to this incredible audiophile one time about headphones and asked him for some advice. This guy had spent thousands every year on this high end shit. I told him I was looking for some headphones in the $100-150 range, thinking that would be near the top end, and he said I might be able to find some decent starter headphones for that price but he doubted it. I asked him how much his were and he said he couldn't remember but he thought it was over $1,500. Reflexively, I blurted out "Oh my God, you're an idiot." I had to backpedal to smooth things out, but my God, what an idiot.

when I was in college my roommate won a pair of $1000 shure earbuds, he tried selling them, but after a couple months and no buyers, he cracked open the case and we listened. It was impressive, those things were probably better than my ears could hear. I wanted a slice of that, so I forked over $100 on the "budget" set that shure sells (se215s, I think). The difference in sound quality was definitely noticeable, but more important, so was the difference between my $100 set and whatever else I used to use. Many years later, I still have the same headphones and I've used them for a marathon and daily use at work, theyre built pretty tough.

point is, sometimes you get what you pay for. headphones are never worth $1,500 though.

he/she/it
02-01-2015, 02:22 AM
The biggest difference with the remaster of MCIS is that there is less bass, exposing the higher frequencies more to give a brighter production. The remaster also sounds to me like it might have less mid-frequency scoop, and possibly a marginal bit of high-frequency increase.

The remaster has more clarity from less bass but also is a bit "honkier" in the mid-frequencies either from their increased exposure relative to the bass, or from their amount of frequency scooping being reduced.

Mals Marola
02-01-2015, 10:05 AM
lily & in the arms of sleep are the most obviously different, soundwise, from the ones i'd done the instant back&forth on in audio editor

you can hear obvious differences on a lot of others, but those two you could have coming out of laptop speakers & still hear it right away

paranoid
02-01-2015, 10:25 AM
I always come away from posts like these wondering if I'm like 90% deaf because I've never put on one of these reissues, or any remastered song of any kind, and heard the slightest difference from the original

So, out of curiosity, and I mean this sincerely (i.e., I am, for once, not being a sarcastic jerk): when you hear this kind of difference, do you think it's contingent upon the quality of the speaker/headphone you're using, or would you be able to tell on just about any piece of equipment? Do you have a background in audio production or are you just a casual listener? Are you unusually good at listening or I am unusually awful?

I feel you need a good, hi quality system to hear these differences. Everyone is being untruthful, IMO.

I've listened to both originals and remastered on ok CD players, computers, I pods, record player with ok speakers, etc etc. I could never tell the difference.

Recently upgraded to a hi fi stereo system. I have both the original vinyl pressing of the mcis LP, and the reissue.

One of the first things I did on this system was play porcelina from both pressings. You can hear a difference for sure, the main one being the clarity of the guitars. They sound absolutely perfect on the reissue, almost too perfect. You can also really hear all of the harmonic depth present in the drums (jimmy knows how to tune a drum kit).

With that, I find the original a lot warmer. Songs like tonight tonight sound a lot thinner on the reissue, because of the precise clarity Ludwig was going for. The louder songs benefit, though.. Jellybelly is astounding.

Mals Marola
02-01-2015, 01:17 PM
open a multitrack audio editor, download audacity for free if you don't have one, line up both pressings of lily on two separate stereo tracks, go back and forth soloing each track while everything is playing

use whatever headphones you want, you'll hear an immediate difference

Rairun
02-01-2015, 01:43 PM
You can tell the difference through tiny laptop speakers, if only because the volume is quite different. But you need better headphones to notice more subtle changes.

slunken
02-01-2015, 08:55 PM
You can hear a difference for sure, the main one being the clarity of the guitars. They sound absolutely perfect on the reissue, almost too perfect. You can also really hear all of the harmonic depth present in the drums (jimmy knows how to tune a drum kit).

With that, I find the original a lot warmer. Songs like tonight tonight sound a lot thinner on the reissue, because of the precise clarity Ludwig was going for. The louder songs benefit, though.. Jellybelly is astounding.

For the most part, I found this to be true with all of the reissues prior to Adore. So far on Adore the only thing i've noticed is that the layers of percussion seem to be more subtly sonically seperated.

teh b0lly!!1
02-02-2015, 01:46 AM
this thread makes me want to go back and A\B but i can't be bothered to download the reissues again

paranoid
02-02-2015, 02:02 AM
For the most part, I found this to be true with all of the reissues prior to Adore. So far on Adore the only thing i've noticed is that the layers of percussion seem to be more subtly sonically seperated.

Yeah, I think the adore reissue sounds a lot better than the original, IMO. I did an a/b on those today, and I was surprised at how thin the original sounded. However, the original pressing is mono, the reissue stereo. It's apparent on to Sheila, guitar is super thin on the original. it seems Billy's voice is almost too upfront on the reissue, which makes me wonder if they did a bit of remixing with this one?

Rairun
02-02-2015, 04:31 AM
Other than the bonus tracks, I've only actually listened to the MCIS reissue. The instruments do sound clearer, but I think the album lost some of its (perhaps nostalgic?) charm.

I was pretty young when I got into MCIS, and it was a time when I was still getting used to dense, heavy music. I'm not sure if any of you had the same experience growing up, but when I was very little, even when listening to the most innocuous, poppy songs, the one thing I picked up on was the vocal melody. Everything else was a visceral wall of sound, capable of suggesting moods and feelings, but never really registering as musical instruments. As I grew up, I started becoming more aware, but the type of music the pumpkins made was still unfamiliar enough when I was a teenager - so my experience of their music was incredibly visceral. The drums in Tonight Tonight weren't really drums: they were a pulse.

As time went by, music sort of lost that edge for me. All music. Now I hear a guitar, a bass line, etc. But the MCIS reissue sort of accentuates this, while the muddiness of the original gives me a small taste of what it felt like then.

myosis
02-02-2015, 07:25 AM
i guess i was a bit like you, rairun, i seemed to be concentrating on harmonics, and i was always hearing notes that weren't really being played...