Is there a story behind this? Seems outright silly considering that he played the drums on all of the Adore tracks apart from 'Perfect' and 'For Martha' and had even played a couple of them live. I recall there were talks of him maybe becoming a permanent member around the time TEITBITE came out.
because billy threw him out while they were recording adore?
(see those "confessions")
soniclovenoize
08-08-2013, 09:00 AM
We are recording at Sunset Sound, a famed studio on Sunset Boulevard where the Doors recorded their first album (a huge influence on me, so I take this to be a good sign)…the room we are in every day is where Van Halen did their first 3 records (another good sign)…I am now the de-facto producer, so it’s me, Bjorn on pro-tools, and an engineer from L.A., Howard, who will man the board, etc…Howard, though a bit conservative (he doesn’t like Led Zeppelin!!!) turns out to be a good guy, and a friend in the end, so he and Bjorn form a sort of support team…(they believe in what I am doing, and encourage me a lot in the months to come)…the band sets up work on a song that will ultimately be called “once upon a time”…the band is in a circle (which is how we usually work), with me facing the drums…right away, I zero in on Matt…I want him to be “Jimmy”, and lift this song higher…he is capable of doing this on his own (in his own way), but unfortunately I want him to be Jimmy, to play just how Jimmy would play…this creates an impossible dynamic…without realizing it before, or admitting it openly (even to myself), I want Jimmy to come back…but I have stubbornly backed myself into a corner…when we (the band) fired Jimmy, just days after the fateful overdose that left him facing prosecution (and Jonathon dead), we had talked amongst ourselves that it would only be a temporary thing…I said “let him sit and clean himself up for 6 months, and then he can come back”…James and D’arcy both agreed this was the best idea…the plan was never, ever to fire him FOREVER…the honest reason we had taken such a hard stand publicly is we wanted and needed Jimmy to believe that there was no coming back…this way (we figured) he wouldn’t just stall for time, or tell us what we wanted to hear like all the times before (hence the dramatic interviews and quotes of “never, never, ever”-essentially we lied to the whole world!)…we figured that he would clean himself up (rehab, therapy), call us up to apologize, ask to come back, and then the door would swing open and we would be there with open arms… but sadly that didn’t happen…as we toured without Jimmy to finish the remaining Mellon Collie dates, our own bitterness set in (as did his for being abandoned), and of course, he never called (looking now, why would he?)…he did, unknown to me for the most part, stay in touch with Gooch the whole time…if I had once found the courage to tell him the “truth/lie” of his firing, (which was more like a suspension) this all could have been averted, and he would have been sitting in front of me listening to me blab on about the arrangement of this song, etc…I missed him badly now, and needed his guidance to make this record, but couldn’t bring my pride around to admit that the situation could have been handled a lot better by us (not to mention letting him know that from my heart, he was forgiven)…Matt had done a very admirable job filling in, and now, out of nowhere, I was turning on him for a situation he had no part of (we had even gone so far as to ask him to be a part of the band, figuring at this point Jimmy really wasn’t coming back)…everything that Matt did was suddenly “wrong” in my eyes, and like someone who wants to break up with somebody but doesn’t have the courage to just say ‘I’m done’, I made the situation so miserable for him and me that it became a certain inevitability that he would go…he truly did his best, but I had already made up my heart…and so, within just a few days, maybe a week of starting in L.A., Matt was on a plane back to Chicago…
Order 66
08-08-2013, 09:39 AM
he OD'd in the MCIS tour. thatx why a drum machine was used on machina
Cool As Ice Cream
08-08-2013, 09:50 AM
siad corgan.
Adult Head
08-08-2013, 10:00 AM
and you may go
but i know you won't
leave
MyOneAndOnly
08-08-2013, 10:39 AM
if billy had OD'd after recording Adore he'd be bigger than Curt now.
MyOneAndOnly
08-08-2013, 10:40 AM
He seems to have a good relationship today with Matt, though. At some point they patched things up. Matt's back in Chicago again and was at the Monte Cruise last summer.
He did a good job at the live shows he played back in the day. Kinda wonder what things would have been like if he hadn't been playing for Morrissey in 09 when Jimmy quit
Rider
08-08-2013, 10:47 AM
The answer is the same always.
Billy is a fucking asshole.
ButterflyBullet
08-08-2013, 11:24 AM
The answer is the same always.
Billy is a fucking asshole.
There should be a list of "dick moves by Billy Corgan" tbh.
themadcaplaughs
08-08-2013, 01:55 PM
He seems to have a good relationship today with Matt, though. At some point they patched things up. Matt's back in Chicago again and was at the Monte Cruise last summer.
He did a good job at the live shows he played back in the day. Kinda wonder what things would have been like if he hadn't been playing for Morrissey in 09 when Jimmy quit
I don't think things were ever that bad between them to be honest. Billy has a tendency to try and make huge narrative and dramatic events out of events that were really much less interesting.
Matt probably did not like the vibe during the recording of Adore. The band was falling apart, and he's said it was obvious the band needed Jimmy back. He probably realized sticking around would have been tedious and moved on to whatever it was he did after SP. Billy probably was a little cold to Matt for the mere fact that he was not Jimmy, but I'm willing to bet it was not THAT horrible. Not like, say, Jason Newstead when he came into Metallica.
My reason behind this is, just two years after leaving the band, Matt was invited to play with them at the Final Metro Show, and spoke highly of Billy during the various documentaries that came out around then./ I do hope, however, that Billy does not alienate Matt now. He is truly the last man standing from the old band now that Jimmy and Kerry are gone.
MyOneAndOnly
08-08-2013, 03:02 PM
Actually, i think Bjorn has been with bill longer than anybody.
fuzzyroes
08-08-2013, 03:46 PM
"I zero in on Matt…I want him to be “Jimmy”, and lift this song higher…he is capable of doing this on his own (in his own way), but unfortunately I want him to be Jimmy, to play just how Jimmy would play…this creates an impossible dynamic…without realizing it before, or admitting it openly (even to myself), I want Jimmy to come back…but I have stubbornly backed myself into a corner…...
Matt had done a very admirable job filling in, and now, out of nowhere, I was turning on him for a situation he had no part of (we had even gone so far as to ask him to be a part of the band, figuring at this point Jimmy really wasn’t coming back)…everything that Matt did was suddenly “wrong” in my eyes, and like someone who wants to break up with somebody but doesn’t have the courage to just say ‘I’m done’, I made the situation so miserable for him and me that it became a certain inevitability that he would go…he truly did his best, but I had already made up my heart…and so, within just a few days, maybe a week of starting in L.A., Matt was on a plane back to Chicago…"
Oh how history repeats itself... If he felt this way with Matt, he surely feels the same with Mike... He probably does make the situation so miserable for Mike, but of course he'll never quit...
It's probably why we have Billy talking about quitting touring... It's the only way to rid himself of this kid...
He surely realizes that Mike just doesn't bring his work up to "the next level".
MyOneAndOnly
08-08-2013, 05:03 PM
I think he likes Mike. I think the reason he chose mike instead of an established drummer was specifically because he could coach him and dictate what he wanted. When they're writing or arranging songs Mike must somehow be able to get into Billy's frame of mind. If he didn't the kid wouldn't be there.
Hasn't a lot of this year's tour been festival dates? He hates playing festivals because they aren't a headlining act anymore. And I believe him when he says tours aren't making them any money. How many techs do they tour with? He'd probably make more money doing smallish gigs with no video/light show.
I have friends in Indie bands who book all their own gigs, self produce and record and they probably make more money in a year than Bill's band does.
I liked the Orb and shit that they toured with this time around. But I think they'd have saved some cash if they just focused on the music and dropped all the pretentious "art" from the show. Did all that crap sell one additional concert ticket? I don't think so. I thought they were going in the right direction in 2011. That tour was mostly bullshit free.
fuzzyroes
08-08-2013, 09:02 PM
I don't buy it man... Billy was on his club/theater tour when he mentioned that they weren't making any money touring... Touring is where the bread and butter is at man... Touring is the only way bands make any money anymore...
I mean, I suppose you may have a point... The Pumpkins were playing huge 15- 20 000 capacity arenas and bringing out about 5000 people a show... So that's gotta hurt the profit margins... But that's just due to Billys own stupidity.
I think you're right about Billy regarding Byrne... I think Billy initially liked the idea of having a kid in the band that he could mold- but it's been like what... 5 years? and the drumming is still a glaring weakness... Corgan CAN'T possibly be happy with the situation. He surely has some regrets... despite whatever front he puts on.
juliana
08-08-2013, 09:26 PM
I don't buy it man... Billy was on his club/theater tour when he mentioned that they weren't making any money touring... Touring is where the bread and butter is at man... Touring is the only way bands make any money anymore...
I mean, I suppose you may have a point... The Pumpkins were playing huge 15- 20 000 capacity arenas and bringing out about 5000 people a show... So that's gotta hurt the profit margins... But that's just due to Billys own stupidity.
I think you're right about Billy regarding Byrne... I think Billy initially liked the idea of having a kid in the band that he could mold- but it's been like what... 5 years? and the drumming is still a glaring weakness... Corgan CAN'T possibly be happy with the situation. He surely has some regrets... despite whatever front he puts on.
He doubled his mc donalds wage...
themadcaplaughs
08-08-2013, 09:46 PM
Actually, i think Bjorn has been with bill longer than anybody.
Bjorn came on board right around the time they started with Adore. So Matt's been around just a hair longer.
if matt was still the drummer for filter in '99, i seem to recall some pretty *b.a.* drum things on that, not to mention the success of that record. i don't think he fared too badly
in all honesty, as good as he is though, i don't neccesarily think it'd be the best fit for sp, at least now
the billy solo thing, oddly enough though, was a different matter
Raskolnikov
04-08-2015, 02:30 PM
Check out Matt's fill at 1:42 >>>
Jet hot. Love it.
bunny
04-08-2015, 02:41 PM
all these people are old now, none of it matters anymore.
We are recording at Sunset Sound, a famed studio on Sunset Boulevard where the Doors recorded their first album (a huge influence on me, so I take this to be a good sign)…the room we are in every day is where Van Halen did their first 3 records (another good sign)…I am now the de-facto producer, so it’s me, Bjorn on pro-tools, and an engineer from L.A., Howard, who will man the board, etc…Howard, though a bit conservative (he doesn’t like Led Zeppelin!!!) turns out to be a good guy, and a friend in the end, so he and Bjorn form a sort of support team…(they believe in what I am doing, and encourage me a lot in the months to come)…the band sets up work on a song that will ultimately be called “once upon a time”…the band is in a circle (which is how we usually work), with me facing the drums…right away, I zero in on Matt…I want him to be “Jimmy”, and lift this song higher…he is capable of doing this on his own (in his own way), but unfortunately I want him to be Jimmy, to play just how Jimmy would play…this creates an impossible dynamic…without realizing it before, or admitting it openly (even to myself), I want Jimmy to come back…but I have stubbornly backed myself into a corner…when we (the band) fired Jimmy, just days after the fateful overdose that left him facing prosecution (and Jonathon dead), we had talked amongst ourselves that it would only be a temporary thing…I said “let him sit and clean himself up for 6 months, and then he can come back”…James and D’arcy both agreed this was the best idea…the plan was never, ever to fire him FOREVER…the honest reason we had taken such a hard stand publicly is we wanted and needed Jimmy to believe that there was no coming back…this way (we figured) he wouldn’t just stall for time, or tell us what we wanted to hear like all the times before (hence the dramatic interviews and quotes of “never, never, ever”-essentially we lied to the whole world!)…we figured that he would clean himself up (rehab, therapy), call us up to apologize, ask to come back, and then the door would swing open and we would be there with open arms… but sadly that didn’t happen…as we toured without Jimmy to finish the remaining Mellon Collie dates, our own bitterness set in (as did his for being abandoned), and of course, he never called (looking now, why would he?)…he did, unknown to me for the most part, stay in touch with Gooch the whole time…if I had once found the courage to tell him the “truth/lie” of his firing, (which was more like a suspension) this all could have been averted, and he would have been sitting in front of me listening to me blab on about the arrangement of this song, etc…I missed him badly now, and needed his guidance to make this record, but couldn’t bring my pride around to admit that the situation could have been handled a lot better by us (not to mention letting him know that from my heart, he was forgiven)…Matt had done a very admirable job filling in, and now, out of nowhere, I was turning on him for a situation he had no part of (we had even gone so far as to ask him to be a part of the band, figuring at this point Jimmy really wasn’t coming back)…everything that Matt did was suddenly “wrong” in my eyes, and like someone who wants to break up with somebody but doesn’t have the courage to just say ‘I’m done’, I made the situation so miserable for him and me that it became a certain inevitability that he would go…he truly did his best, but I had already made up my heart…and so, within just a few days, maybe a week of starting in L.A., Matt was on a plane back to Chicago…
It's so refreshing to actually see billy openly admitting he was wrong, and an asshole.
A nice revisit after all these horrible recent interviews
panda show
04-08-2015, 04:37 PM
not really related to the thread but, what songs (if any) did matt cameron play on except on for martha?
amoergosum
04-08-2015, 04:51 PM
not really related to the thread but, what songs (if any) did matt cameron play on except on for martha?
>>>
He contributed to seven tracks on the Pumpkins 1998 release, Adore, but "For Martha" was the only track that would appear on the album.
To sum up the thread, Matt Walker didn't play on the Adore tour because Billy Corgan is a stupid shortsighted prima donna asshole who shoots himself in the foot and alienates people who help him at every turn.
gyang333
04-08-2015, 07:25 PM
Actually, i think Bjorn has been with bill longer than anybody.
I think Bjorn is out since Oceania came out. So time for someone else to try and break that record now.
vajohna
04-09-2015, 02:45 AM
Bjorn did contribute to the Mellon Collie reissue in 2012, though, so he's been present in after Oceania's release.
Cool As Ice Cream
04-09-2015, 02:54 AM
wasn't matt walker touring with the pumpkins at the end of 2000? or who was it who came out to play the drums on 1979, when jc switched the drum kit for an acoustic guitar?
vajohna
04-09-2015, 02:57 AM
or who was it who came out to play the drums on 1979, when jc switched the drum kit for an acoustic guitar?
Doesn't that seem like the ultimate insult? 'Come out and play on the world's largest drum setup to this drum track, bro.'
Cool As Ice Cream
04-09-2015, 04:04 AM
i'm probably mistaken. dunno.
i just seem to remember someone coming out just for 1979, and finding that rather odd. maybe i just imagined it. or maybe i'm confusing it with the final metro show.
but it's clear they've made up soon after the adore thing, as matt walker did some machina/glass remixes, went on tour for the future embrace, and did some remixes for the reissues.
amoergosum
04-09-2015, 05:18 AM
i'm probably mistaken. dunno.
i just seem to remember someone coming out just for 1979, and finding that rather odd. maybe i just imagined it. or maybe i'm confusing it with the final metro show.
You're confusing it with the final Metro show. Haha...Jimmy with that acoustic guitar was hilarious.