View Full Version : Great article on mcis cover art


paranoid
12-07-2012, 09:30 PM
Read it.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2012/12/07/166414108/mellon-collie-mystery-girl-the-story-behind-an-iconic-album-cover

bs1933
12-07-2012, 09:47 PM
That's a great read! I've always been curious about the artist and never really tried to research. I think that the art, the whole package of the albums art and the videos all seemed really cool together. I think this a nice peek into that whole process.

slunken
12-07-2012, 11:06 PM
i read that the other day - really nice :2thumbsup

paranoid
12-07-2012, 11:29 PM
i read that the other day - really nice :2thumbsup

But the article's only been up 12 hours? :think:

T&T
12-08-2012, 12:04 AM
I always really liked the texture of the cover artwork (BWBW single too).
I wonder now if it's just an artifact of his color photocopier


i've always wondered what the copyright legalities of using collage material like this?

slunken
12-08-2012, 12:18 AM
But the article's only been up 12 hours? :think:

i worked a double today. this morning feels like a day and a half ago.

slunken
12-08-2012, 12:22 AM
I always really liked the texture of the cover artwork (BWBW single too).
I wonder now if it's just an artifact of his color photocopier


i've always wondered what the copyright legalities of using collage material like this?

its probably a moire pattern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern

also - mass-produced printing plates from the victorian era were never under any copyright and if they were it would have expired long ago. so no matter where or how the image was lifted its fair game. whether it was printed today or 200 years ago.

Rider
12-08-2012, 10:47 AM
I have pretty sick and twisted mind, but how fucked up do you have to be to ever look at the MCIS cover and think the girl is masturbating?

soniclovenoize
12-08-2012, 11:05 AM
Yes but WHAT ABOUT THE SECRET MESSAGE ON THE BULLET SINGLE!?!?

KManXC
12-08-2012, 11:08 AM
Cool read. My assumption is Billy would deny all of it out of habit and call this guy a hack.

amoergosum
12-08-2012, 11:33 AM
NPR: Let's talk about the hands, which are really interesting to me. I was probably 12 when I got this album, and I don't think I looked twice at the art. When I revisited it a few years later, I remember thinking there was something really risqué about it — especially the left hand, draped below the waist. Is there a sexual element there?

JC: Is she masturbating?

NPR: That's my question.

JC: You know, I have to be honest with you: I see that in a lot of paintings of women from those periods.

NPR: That they appear to be masturbating?

JC: Not necessarily — but that there's a lot of fondling, self-fondling. She may be, and maybe only Raphael knows. There's something about the placement of the hands and the whole look this woman has on her face that implies it. I think that's the unspoken eroticism in a lot of that early art. That's all they could get away with.


Great...now I can't look at the cover anymore without thinking about that part of the article...;)

bs1933
12-08-2012, 11:35 AM
its probably a moire pattern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern


If we're looking at the same thing I don't really see moire. I think the patterns you see might actually be halftone from the original art that would have been used to convey shading and shape on the faces and fabric.

T&T
12-08-2012, 12:13 PM
I thought the masturbating thing was obvious. maybe it was something I picked up on a museum tour when I was a kid.

JRock
12-08-2012, 12:16 PM
great article. I have always wondered about this! thanks so much for sharing!

redbreegull
12-08-2012, 03:32 PM
I have pretty sick and twisted mind, but how fucked up do you have to be to ever look at the MCIS cover and think the girl is masturbating?

Great...now I can't look at the cover anymore without thinking about that part of the article...;)

I thought the masturbating thing was obvious. maybe it was something I picked up on a museum tour when I was a kid.

I have also always thought it was obvious. Her hand is in a pretty perfect female masturbatory position, and she's even got her O face on. I am honestly surprised that this wasn't the explicit intention of the artist, although perhaps he didn't want to come out and blatantly say yeah, I manipulated those two images to make an image of an orgasming woman

Trotskilicious
12-08-2012, 04:34 PM
it's not sick at all...do you think rider is a repressed catholic or something

Rider
12-08-2012, 06:46 PM
it's not sick at all...do you think rider is a repressed catholic or something

NIce try.

stumpycat
12-09-2012, 03:59 AM
Wow that article was quite fascinating. I would have never thought of those as having been collages lifted from actual vintage sources. Things like this really make me reaffirm my love of art even though I'm often repressing that side of myself. Fuck. I LOVE doing art projects and really admire the people who do clever shit like this.

The whole masturbation thing never occurred to me though - I just don't really see it. Holy shit NPR!

vbshlofbvgos
12-09-2012, 04:23 AM
yes people. their best selling album had a masturbating woman on the cover. this signifies all that is right and wrong about the smashing pumpkins and their fans. discuss

teh b0lly!!1
12-09-2012, 04:42 AM
i don't know if i'm biased because i grew up on these records but sd, mcis, and adore have all had spectacular art that greatly suited the spirit of each respective record

this article made me understand how hard it is to make somebody else GET your vision and follow through with it

Starla
12-09-2012, 06:20 AM
This is bullshit. She's not masturbating. Don't ruin that cover for me with this filth. It's always been sacred and pure to me.

topleybird
12-11-2012, 11:24 AM
I am tantalized by the possibility that the article author's "research" into the origins of the cover just involved finding my original research:

http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=115398

Then again, I suppose if I could do it, anyone could.

T&T
12-11-2012, 11:28 AM
Then again, I suppose if I could do it, anyone could.

pretty sure the internet found out about this before 2006

topleybird
12-11-2012, 11:35 AM
The Greuze, sure. Never saw anyone identify the body as being that Raphael painting of Catherine—excuse me, I mean my painting When I Wear Corduroy I Am a Man—prior to that thread.

Also it appears I was wrong about Craig doing an original painting based on both. Strange, as I swear I see details in the MCIS cover that I don't in the originals. Slight airbrushing here and there perhaps.

reprise85
12-11-2012, 01:54 PM
topleybird! where the fuck have you been? welcome back

redbreegull
12-11-2012, 03:04 PM
TopleyBird what is your opinion on the masturbation debate?


I kind of have to shake my head at the people who are all, "I DONT SEE IT."

like... it actually looks exactly like that, not sure how you can not see it

T&T
12-11-2012, 03:16 PM
like they said in the article - these suggestions were is as close as artists could get to show sexuality. Compared to modern triple anal gape videos available at the click of a mouse, I can accept that a hand near the crotch might not be taken as sexual.

redbreegull
12-11-2012, 03:22 PM
will you just look at it!

redbreegull
12-11-2012, 03:26 PM
http://hipstersunited.com/images/crunchyVeggies3.jpg



http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcv8mc5Q251qc1fwno1_500.jpg

opera de nuit
12-11-2012, 03:37 PM
then you have d'arcy holding a carrot

http://www.geocities.ws/agirlnamedsandozuk/the_mellon_collie_pic.gif

'food' for thought...

redbreegull
12-11-2012, 03:38 PM
Two fingers in slightly curved stroking position near genital region
Other hand placed as if fondling or cupping breast
Eyes rolling back in head





http://streething.com/userfiles/The_Smashing_Pumpkins_Mellon_Collie_And_The_Infini te_Sadness-Front-www_FreeCovers_net.jpg

slunken
12-11-2012, 03:46 PM
jimmy has a fish in his pocket

opera de nuit
12-11-2012, 03:49 PM
mellon collie and the infinite sexual metaphor

slunken
12-11-2012, 03:53 PM
wth was all that vagina dentata talk in the booklet about the song love

New Art Rioter
12-11-2012, 03:56 PM
Billy is just in mega "sounding like an ass" mode in that booklet, most of it was quite cringey

T&T
12-11-2012, 05:06 PM
i always wondered wtf was up with jimmy's outfit.
those pants and the yellow jacket?
aside from james (and sometimes d'arcy) this was NEVER a fashionable band.

machina black leather outfits looked so bad on them
do girls ever think billy has a sexy ass?
I always thought D'arcy had a mans ass, and her man jeans never helped.

T&T
12-11-2012, 05:07 PM
wth was all that vagina dentata talk in the booklet about the song love
that you should fear love. :shrug:
maybe he thought he was being edgy
probably didn't realize it's been part of lame popular culture since the movie of the same name came out.

reprise85
12-11-2012, 05:56 PM
Two fingers in slightly curved stroking position near genital region
Other hand placed as if fondling or cupping breast
Eyes rolling back in head





http://streething.com/userfiles/The_Smashing_Pumpkins_Mellon_Collie_And_The_Infini te_Sadness-Front-www_FreeCovers_net.jpg

like my childhood needs more sexual overtones

thanks bolly! ;)

reprise85
12-11-2012, 05:57 PM
honestly if you would have asked me what her other hand was doing i wouldn't even have been able to put my hand in that position. very much overlooked it

reprise85
12-11-2012, 05:58 PM
do your eyes really roll back in your head when you're masturbating/having sex?

i always thought she was whimsically looking at the stars or some shit

redbreegull
12-11-2012, 07:30 PM
do your eyes really roll back in your head when you're masturbating/having sex?

i always thought she was whimsically looking at the stars or some shit

lots of people experience involuntary muscle movement during sex, especially near/during orgasm. eyes rolling back is pretty standard

stumpycat
12-11-2012, 10:15 PM
To me it looks more like a baseball hand signal between pitcher and catcher. I don't know who would masturbate like that. I thought she was just supposed to look "taken" with something, as though she was having some sort of ethereal spiritual/ecstatic experience - that is why she was looking heavenward.

redbreegull
12-11-2012, 10:18 PM
I don't want to be all like have you fuckers ever seen a woman masturbate

but

bs1933
12-11-2012, 10:24 PM
Based on the placement it looks to me like she's beating off her thigh. So... Not her hoohaw

pavementtune
12-11-2012, 10:24 PM
Have you ever thought about how many women put on a show when they know they're beeing looked at?

redbreegull
12-11-2012, 10:28 PM
Based on the placement it looks to me like she's beating off her thigh. So... Not her hoohaw

yeah I noticed that her hand was not exactly over her crotch

Have you ever thought about how many women put on a show when they know they're beeing looked at?

I would say people act different when they know they are being looked at and this is true across a myriad of behaviors

pavementtune
12-11-2012, 10:33 PM
So there goes your "standard" regarding facial expressions when you watch a girl masturbating or her face during an orgasm.

redbreegull
12-11-2012, 10:41 PM
So there goes your "standard" regarding facial expressions when you watch a girl masturbating or her face during an orgasm.

I don't know what you are trying to prove? If people always act differently upon observation and the only way human beings can know anything is through empirical evidence collection, that doesn't alter the fact that eyes rolling back in the head is a common thing to happen during orgasm, does it? Both those pictures were created by human beings as was the composite, who would have gotten their ideas about what orgasms look like from somewhere real, not out of the great objective blue...

this for both men and women also, orgasms shut down many of the higher functions of the brain and affect motor skills. This is like common knowledge Kinsey stuff. Involuntary muscle contractions are often a part of this.

houseofglass11
12-12-2012, 12:26 AM
Yeah, not only is she masturbating but the star she's coming out of looks like the goats head pentagram too. :D

slunken
12-12-2012, 12:39 AM
I thought she was just supposed to look "taken" with something, as though she was having some sort of ethereal spiritual/ecstatic experience - that is why she was looking heavenward.

this - of course you could equate it to sex

slunken
12-12-2012, 12:40 AM
hay guyse if you stop midway thru a poop its like youre having anal sex

reprise85
12-12-2012, 01:31 AM
only if you shove the poop in as hard as you can, over and over and it's a type 2 on the bristol stool chart

vajohna
12-12-2012, 02:06 AM
Is it a spiritual/ecstatic experience or a woman having an orgasm? The age-old question... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasy_of_Saint_Theresa

Trotskilicious
12-12-2012, 02:42 AM
well that's why nuns don't have sex because the rapture of christ is enough for them

also the ecstasy of saint theresa is hot

Reyngel
10-23-2015, 11:53 PM
This was on NPR a few years back. Some pretty interesting stuff to read:

http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2012/12/07/166414108/mellon-collie-mystery-girl-the-story-behind-an-iconic-album-cover?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nprmusic&utm_term=music&utm_content=2048

Ram27
10-24-2015, 12:23 AM
here, he worked from Corgan's scribbled notes and crude sketches, most of which arrived via fax.

As time goes on I realize more and more that Billy was always fucking insane, and thank god the other three were in the band.

________

I love how strongly the Victorian feel is embodied in everything produced in this era. It's a really pleasant, gorgeous, unified concept. I guess that's what Machina and Targaryen was supposed to be

redbreegull
10-24-2015, 12:35 AM
the internet has amplified his insanity but it's always been there

Ram27
10-24-2015, 12:38 AM
Also woah she's totally fondling her breasts and masturbating

The left hand positioning looks even more suspect when it's above the starship and you don't have any idea where her legs are, versus the original painting where she's just touching her thigh



That was a really cool article thanks for posting.

MyKeyZ
10-24-2015, 01:46 AM
Maybe that star she's floating in just feels really good to touch?

Elphenor
10-24-2015, 08:33 AM
You guys are just realizing the whole "she's masturbating" thing?

SlingeroGuitaro
10-24-2015, 10:28 AM
to be fair most SP fans are retarded.

redbreegull
10-24-2015, 11:02 AM
Also woah she's totally fondling her breasts and masturbating


You guys are just realizing the whole "she's masturbating" thing?

sorry to everyone I was overly aggressive at in this thread three years ago. I really just always thought she was supposed to be masturbating and it surprised me that a lot of people had never seen this in the picture

Elphenor
10-24-2015, 04:30 PM
Oh I didn't even notice this was three years old

Gooch
11-02-2015, 06:30 PM
So wait, if she WAS masturbating, wouldn't she have hairy knuckles? This disproves the theory.

slunken
11-03-2015, 06:24 PM
:noway:

FoolofaTook
11-06-2015, 02:56 PM
I always thought D'arcy had a mans ass, and her man jeans never helped.

maybe some of us love us some man ass, boy!

gimme some man ass, yeah!

FoolofaTook
11-06-2015, 02:57 PM
So wait, if she WAS masturbating, wouldn't she have hairy knuckles? This disproves the theory.

no, bro, she would have blind knuckles.


what do they teach them in school these days?

freshfacedyouth
11-06-2015, 03:34 PM
welcome back, took

redbreegull
11-06-2015, 04:13 PM
no, bro, she would have blind knuckles.


what do they teach them in school these days?

you know they say prison changes a man but

FoolofaTook
11-07-2015, 08:29 AM
it also changes a man's butt!

amirite?!? LAWL