I think Oceania is Corgans best work since the Zwan days... But I'm torn about which album is better... While Oceania seems more consistent I think MSOTS has higher highs: Jesus I/mary star of the sea, Desire, declarations of faith...

What do you guys think?

Mary Star of the Teargarden By The Future Embrace

This is a difficult question to answer because we've had a decade to digest MSOTS and only a couple weeks to do the same with Oceania. At this point in time I'd say MSOTS is better. I agree about the higher highs. I still listen to MSOTS pretty often and it's a great summertime/feel good album. Plus Corgan used the Zwan name rather than the stupid shit with the SP name today so that also makes it better. Given time, Oceania might be better for me though.

Yeah theres a lot more crap on the Zwan record but when it works its absolutely fantastic. Its a tough one... I think in the I pod age I get more enjoyment out of zwan because Desire and Jesus I/Mary star of the sea are pretty much right up there with my all time favorite Corgan tracks... No songs on Oceania reach me like that...But as a whole Oceanias a better record I think.

Oceania by a long shot. Its also better than machina I.

^^

MSOTS was never as good as Zwan live or some of the unreleased material. Album had potential to be a good starting point...

Mary Star should have been a lot better than it was.

Zwan: better songwriting, better drumming.

Oceania is more consistent but Mary has higher highs (and lower lows).

MSOTS is a shit record made by a great, but dysfunctional band. Oceania is a pretty decent record made by a decent band.

If we start talking about live, and Zwan as a 4 piece, then we're in totally different territory. Some of those early Zwan songs were amazing.

Zwan: better songwriting, better drumming.

This.

MSOTS was never as good as Zwan live or some of the unreleased material. Album had potential to be a good starting point...

Agreed.. That could have been a great album. Most of their best material was left out. If recorded and given "Oceania" studio treatment, it would have been a stellar record.

MSOTS gives me a headaches, and the headaches are definitely not worth the listen.

desire is one of my favorite BC songs, and MSOTS is good, endless summer is good, ride a black swan is good

Oceania is better in general.

MSotS because of the title track