From what little we know, I have a feeling Oceania might turn out to be simultaneously the strangest and most quintessential SP record to date.

I feel that Billy's song titles are always quite evocative of each song's sound or style, and from peering into the tea leaves here I get the following initial impressions about the album. Feel free to share your own.


Quasar / Stella Polaris and the People Mover - from the live recording, we know its a psychedelic rocker with a similar riff to Tristessa and screaming guitar solos. But does the title tell us anything? Stella Polaris is, of course, the north star, but also apparently a Spanish hotel, a cruise ship and "Denmark's biggest chill-out event", according to Google. The People Mover was a ride at an old amusement park, but more commonly refers to automated public transport. So... is the song about space travel? Inner, more likely than outer, I would surmise.

Panopticon - a clear reference to the rise of surveillance culture and creeping authoritarianism. Since Zeitgeist, Billy's lyrics have become more overtly political and referential towards conspiracy theories (Doomsday Clock, United States, Freak, The Fellowship) and song titles like this suggest those themes will be present on Oceania as well.

The Celestials - Either a love song, or less likely, a reference to the "alien consciousness" Billy once claimed via Twitter to have been in communication with through a psychic chaneller. He has been interested in mystical notions for many years and has infrequently spoken about 2012 and aliens, among other things. Make of that what you will.

Oceania - Initially I'm reminded of Bjork's song Oceania which she performed at the 2004 Olympics, but perhaps Billy has also chosen the title for its universality and suggestiveness of cultural harmony. Musically I imagine it might be the album's epic jam, perhaps slightly similar to Mary Star of the Sea or Porcelina.

Pale Horse - possibly a reference to the 1991 book "Behold a Pale Horse" by the noted late conspiracy theorist Bill Cooper. I have not read it, and only have a vague idea of what its about.

The Chimera - "according to Greek mythology, the Chimera was a monstrous fire-breathing female creature of Lycia in Asia Minor, composed of the parts of multiple animals: upon the body of a lioness with a tail that ended in a snake's head, the head of a goat arose on her back at the center of her spine. The Chimera was one of the offspring of Typhon and Echidna and a sibling of such monsters as Cerberus and the Lernaean Hydra. The term chimera has also come to describe any mythical animal with parts taken from various animals and, more generally, an impossible or foolish fantasy". So, that one's really open to interpretation. I'm inclined to think it will be the album's progressive rock centerpiece.


So, overall I get the feeling that the album will be superficially comparable to Gish and Siamese Dream, but with a greater shoegaze element. I'm imagining lots of hazy, washed-out soundscapes and an overall mood of uneasy serenity. I believe the album will be strange for the fact that it will be musically familiar and nostalgic, but have an ominous lyrical subtext. I think the most interesting question about the album will be about how it fits into the Teargarden project, although I suspect most people at this point have stopped thinking about the theme of the Fool's Journey and how that might be served.


I'm just projecting here but its fun to imagine and see how close you were once the record's out. Anyone got their own idea about how Oceania might turn out?

I admire your dedication, Isle.

But no one care

/thread

I agree Oceania will probably be the epic song. There always has to be at least one 7+ minute song.

I admire your dedication, Isle.

But no one care

its this kind of discourse that distinguishes between "diehard fans" and those who are merely consumers.

It's hard for me to be excited about the new SP stuff. I hope I'm surprised and it's good, but I'm just not into what BC has been putting out lately.

Anyway that was mostly a joke but if I'm not a "diehard fan" because of it then so be it I guess.

It's hard for me to be excited about the new SP stuff. I hope I'm surprised and it's good, but I'm just not into what BC has been putting out lately.

Anyway that was mostly a joke but if I'm not a "diehard fan" because of it then so be it I guess.


i know you were joking, and you're right that no one cares. i partly post this stuff for billy's amusement, in case he reads it. i learned basically everything i know about music from him, and i think he might find it interesting to see the development of a creative mind similar to his own. but i mostly just like to see my wacky ideas validated by the interest of other enquiring minds.

I think it is likely he reads it. Hi Billy.

i want it to be good, too. and all about ancient astronaut theory, as the OP suggested.

/thread is not working... as usual

Oceania has been confirmed by Billy as being an epic track...I believe there are 3 parts to it

thank gawd nobody in here is referring to it as "Oash" (http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/board_new/index.php?showtopic=17405&st=0)

I think Oash is gonna be a GREAT one. Think "Rubberman" for today's audience.

oash is gonna be a mystery album.
:)
laced in concept. but billy knows to keep his mouth shut about mysteries.... hahah

I heard Mike Byrne recorded himself crying for three minutes and that's going to be the new SP single.

I think Oash is gonna be a GREAT one. Think "Rubberman" for today's audience.

/Oboard

vocals vocals vocals vocals and also vocals

I'm guessing any album picked at random is bound to be better than this, why are you guys so eager to torture yourselves?

del

its this kind of discourse that distinguishes between "diehard fans" and those who are merely consumers.

Long ago I fell in love with this band, because many of the musical qualities I look for in music were present in Smashing Pumpkins, more-so than other artists. But as I grew older, not only did Smashing Pumpkins evolve over time so as to no longer contain the sound-elements I look for in music, but the sound-elements themselves I look for in music evolved. We both had changed. With additional alienating factors present by the turn of 2000, I was done with the band and my grieving process began. It is my theory that Netphora is less of a fan site for The Smashing Pumpkins, but an on-line support system and community for music fans who are all in the various steps of the grieving process, for their dying and/or deceased love of The Smashing Pumpkins.

I got into the band in 1994 with Siamese Dream, when I started listening to other "alt-rock" bands. As a freshman in high school, I can clearly remember my “Big 4” were Nirvana, Nine Inch Nails, Green Day and of course Smashing Pumpkins. Other bands danced around those Big 4 such as Soundgraden, Weezer, Stone Temple Pilots and other 90s-alt-rock mainstays. But the songwriting prowess, sound-design intricacies and variance in musical arrangements made Smashing Pumpkins the leader of the pack. The summer of 1995 exposed me to their b-side collection Pisces Iscariot, which showed me they were not simply flash-in-the-pan Johnny-come-latelies; they were the real deal. This was THE band of my generation. By the time Mellon Collie was released that fall, I had already immersed myself in the more obscure Gish and was already my high school’s resident Smashing Pumpkins psycho-fan and expert.

Three years later the band released Adore on the day of the dress rehearsal of my high school graduation. It was all-too appropriate, as my musical tastes were already starting to broaden, as I abandoned the slew of MOR 90s bands and refocused on new more idiosyncratic obsessions such as Primus and Radiohead. Because of the experimentalism of Adore (as compared to their previous work) Smashing Pumpkins were able to fight hand in hand and stay in the top position as my favorite band. It was this time I began posting on Netphoria, I believe, as well as composing bass tabs and the Smashing Pumpkins Recording Sessions for the Smashing Pumpkins on-line community. But as I went off to college and looked for even more musical directions, The Smashing Pumpkins’ time was growing short. My discovery of The Flaming Lips dethroned Smashing Pumpkins, for the simple fact that they now possessed more musical qualities I sought on music. After devouring The Flaming Lips back-catalog, it was clear to me that they fit the bill more so than Smashing Pumpkins. In 1999, both artists had a new album slated for release—along with the third place contender Radiohead. Who will win in the battle for my musical heart?

The Flaming Lips released The Soft Bulletin in the summer of 1999, a radical departure from their previous work, and it set me back, giving Smashing Pumpkins an opportunity to take their lead. But the new songs leaked on their Arising Tour were not of the caliber of their previous material, even in fetal form; even the Double Door shows and the Viper Room shows demonstrated the genius of Corgan’s writing before the album was even finished. But this new material, although exciting with the return of Chamberlin, seemed to be treading water and rested solely on the renewed percussive drive rather than solid songwriting and creative arrangements. When Machina was finally released, I was hungry for new, brilliant Corgan material, but for the first time for any Smashing Pumpkins release, I was let down. The album was too long and bloated; some of the material was certainly not up to par with their previous songwriting; the production was muddy and inorganic; the packaging and artwork was unusually cryptic and unlike their former character. The release of Radiohead’s Kid A left me further confused as the musical direction of my 90’s-rock favorites. What has happened? Little did I know, at the time, this was the death of my love for Smashing Pumpkins, which only intensified as the years progressed.

The first nail in the coffin was the actual break-up of The Smashing Pumpkins in the conclusion of 2000. Over that year I was able to musically digest all three albums: Machina, Soft Bulletin and Kid A. While I had grown to accept Machina for what it was, in contrast I was able to appreciate the genius of The Soft Bulletin and Kid A. The later were challenging albums that required the listener to think outside the box, something I was able to do at that point in time; Machina was just your average album, a misstep for otherwise creative minds. But sentimentalism overtook me, and I refused to give up on Smashing Pumpkins at this point. But Corgan’s announcement that the band was breaking up shattered that nostalgia. But why did Corgan do it? One sub-par album and lack of record sales was not a great excuse to end a band, a dream, an obsession. I was now entering the denial stage of the grief cycle. This signaled to me that the band was finished, and that I should move on. Not only were Radiohead and The Flaming Lips all-too active, but I had also recently discovered other current and active bands that seemed more musically rewarding, such as elaborate Texas rockers the pAper chase and The Polyphonic Spree and local art-punk heroes Lifter Puller. The old always make-way for the new.

The final nail in the coffin was the forming of Zwan. I had always maintained the original break-up of the band was pointless and unnecessary, and they clearly had some life in them, if only to recover from Machina. But the forming of a band with not only Chamberlin behind the kit, but with classic Corgan songwriting, stylistic similarities to The Smashing Pumpkins and even a female bass player? This was a lie; Corgan should not have broken up the band if his next project was simply Smashing Pumpkins 2.0. This was supposed to be the new Smashing Pumpkins album! Why did my love have to die if it was just to be continued a year and a half later? But my love was already invested in the other aforementioned acts. All that remained was contempt for Billy Corgan. I was now in the anger stage of the grief cycle.

Graduating from college in 2002, my musical tastes began to change yet again as my eyes set upon the slew of Elephant 6 bands such as Olivia Tremor Control, The Sunshine Fix, Circulatory System, of Montreal and Neutral Milk Hotel, that seemed to break all the rules that my 90s alt-rock favorites seemed to construct. In 2004 my daughter was born and my 200+ collection of Smashing Pumpkins CDs tapes and vinyl were sold for diaper-money. I did not at all regret it, as I was more interested in her well being, and I had already created a modest collection of Elephant 6 discs to construct my life’s soundtrack. Now I realize I was in the acceptance and reinvestment stages of the grieving process. I had long ago accepted the death of my favorite band, but I knew there would always be better bands, new musical discoveries to be made. Besides, would Smashing Pumpkins continue to define me musically anyways? No, they did not. Siamese Dream was always there to enjoy, but I had accepted that this band no longer exists and never will… ever.

Over this time, I would continually go back to Netphoria, but not because of my love for The Smashing Pumpkins. At the time I labeled it as “out of habit” but I believe there are deeper psychological reasons why I—and all of us—keep coming back to this god forsaken forum. Because I needed help in dealing with my grief in losing my favorite band, the soundtrack to my adolescence, and although I never realized it at the time, this is what Netphoria provided. We are all at various stages of our grief cycle: Denial, Anger, Sadness, Acceptance and Reinvestment. Netphoria is a self-help forum, a place to find guidance and support for our grief, to talk to others who have lost someone dear to us—the same someone: Billy Corgan and his bandmates.

I urge you all to take a step back and realize what’s going on, and try to understand what stage you are at. I have already been through it all, and I am here to help, as a sort of councilor or mediator. Learn from my experiences. I wish you all luck.

an overall mood of uneasy serenity.

what does that mean

thats a repost ive seen that before

thats a repost ive seen that before

thats a repost ive seen that before

holy shit lots of tl;dr in fact idk why I went in here I obviously have no care

what does that mean

like the calm before the storm

Long ago I fell in love with this band, because many of the musical qualities I look for in music were present in Smashing Pumpkins, more-so than other artists. But as I grew older, not only did Smashing Pumpkins evolve over time so as to no longer contain the sound-elements I look for in music, but the sound-elements themselves I look for in music evolved. We both had changed. With additional alienating factors present by the turn of 2000, I was done with the band and my grieving process began. It is my theory that Netphora is less of a fan site for The Smashing Pumpkins, but an on-line support system and community for music fans who are all in the various steps of the grieving process, for their dying and/or deceased love of The Smashing Pumpkins.

I got into the band in 1994 with Siamese Dream, when I started listening to other "alt-rock" bands. As a freshman in high school, I can clearly remember my “Big 4” were Nirvana, Nine Inch Nails, Green Day and of course Smashing Pumpkins. Other bands danced around those Big 4 such as Soundgraden, Weezer, Stone Temple Pilots and other 90s-alt-rock mainstays. But the songwriting prowess, sound-design intricacies and variance in musical arrangements made Smashing Pumpkins the leader of the pack. The summer of 1995 exposed me to their b-side collection Pisces Iscariot, which showed me they were not simply flash-in-the-pan Johnny-come-latelies; they were the real deal. This was THE band of my generation. By the time Mellon Collie was released that fall, I had already immersed myself in the more obscure Gish and was already my high school’s resident Smashing Pumpkins psycho-fan and expert.

Three years later the band released Adore on the day of the dress rehearsal of my high school graduation. It was all-too appropriate, as my musical tastes were already starting to broaden, as I abandoned the slew of MOR 90s bands and refocused on new more idiosyncratic obsessions such as Primus and Radiohead. Because of the experimentalism of Adore (as compared to their previous work) Smashing Pumpkins were able to fight hand in hand and stay in the top position as my favorite band. It was this time I began posting on Netphoria, I believe, as well as composing bass tabs and the Smashing Pumpkins Recording Sessions for the Smashing Pumpkins on-line community. But as I went off to college and looked for even more musical directions, The Smashing Pumpkins’ time was growing short. My discovery of The Flaming Lips dethroned Smashing Pumpkins, for the simple fact that they now possessed more musical qualities I sought on music. After devouring The Flaming Lips back-catalog, it was clear to me that they fit the bill more so than Smashing Pumpkins. In 1999, both artists had a new album slated for release—along with the third place contender Radiohead. Who will win in the battle for my musical heart?

The Flaming Lips released The Soft Bulletin in the summer of 1999, a radical departure from their previous work, and it set me back, giving Smashing Pumpkins an opportunity to take their lead. But the new songs leaked on their Arising Tour were not of the caliber of their previous material, even in fetal form; even the Double Door shows and the Viper Room shows demonstrated the genius of Corgan’s writing before the album was even finished. But this new material, although exciting with the return of Chamberlin, seemed to be treading water and rested solely on the renewed percussive drive rather than solid songwriting and creative arrangements. When Machina was finally released, I was hungry for new, brilliant Corgan material, but for the first time for any Smashing Pumpkins release, I was let down. The album was too long and bloated; some of the material was certainly not up to par with their previous songwriting; the production was muddy and inorganic; the packaging and artwork was unusually cryptic and unlike their former character. The release of Radiohead’s Kid A left me further confused as the musical direction of my 90’s-rock favorites. What has happened? Little did I know, at the time, this was the death of my love for Smashing Pumpkins, which only intensified as the years progressed.

The first nail in the coffin was the actual break-up of The Smashing Pumpkins in the conclusion of 2000. Over that year I was able to musically digest all three albums: Machina, Soft Bulletin and Kid A. While I had grown to accept Machina for what it was, in contrast I was able to appreciate the genius of The Soft Bulletin and Kid A. The later were challenging albums that required the listener to think outside the box, something I was able to do at that point in time; Machina was just your average album, a misstep for otherwise creative minds. But sentimentalism overtook me, and I refused to give up on Smashing Pumpkins at this point. But Corgan’s announcement that the band was breaking up shattered that nostalgia. But why did Corgan do it? One sub-par album and lack of record sales was not a great excuse to end a band, a dream, an obsession. I was now entering the denial stage of the grief cycle. This signaled to me that the band was finished, and that I should move on. Not only were Radiohead and The Flaming Lips all-too active, but I had also recently discovered other current and active bands that seemed more musically rewarding, such as elaborate Texas rockers the pAper chase and The Polyphonic Spree and local art-punk heroes Lifter Puller. The old always make-way for the new.

The final nail in the coffin was the forming of Zwan. I had always maintained the original break-up of the band was pointless and unnecessary, and they clearly had some life in them, if only to recover from Machina. But the forming of a band with not only Chamberlin behind the kit, but with classic Corgan songwriting, stylistic similarities to The Smashing Pumpkins and even a female bass player? This was a lie; Corgan should not have broken up the band if his next project was simply Smashing Pumpkins 2.0. This was supposed to be the new Smashing Pumpkins album! Why did my love have to die if it was just to be continued a year and a half later? But my love was already invested in the other aforementioned acts. All that remained was contempt for Billy Corgan. I was now in the anger stage of the grief cycle.

Graduating from college in 2002, my musical tastes began to change yet again as my eyes set upon the slew of Elephant 6 bands such as Olivia Tremor Control, The Sunshine Fix, Circulatory System, of Montreal and Neutral Milk Hotel, that seemed to break all the rules that my 90s alt-rock favorites seemed to construct. In 2004 my daughter was born and my 200+ collection of Smashing Pumpkins CDs tapes and vinyl were sold for diaper-money. I did not at all regret it, as I was more interested in her well being, and I had already created a modest collection of Elephant 6 discs to construct my life’s soundtrack. Now I realize I was in the acceptance and reinvestment stages of the grieving process. I had long ago accepted the death of my favorite band, but I knew there would always be better bands, new musical discoveries to be made. Besides, would Smashing Pumpkins continue to define me musically anyways? No, they did not. Siamese Dream was always there to enjoy, but I had accepted that this band no longer exists and never will… ever.

Over this time, I would continually go back to Netphoria, but not because of my love for The Smashing Pumpkins. At the time I labeled it as “out of habit” but I believe there are deeper psychological reasons why I—and all of us—keep coming back to this god forsaken forum. Because I needed help in dealing with my grief in losing my favorite band, the soundtrack to my adolescence, and although I never realized it at the time, this is what Netphoria provided. We are all at various stages of our grief cycle: Denial, Anger, Sadness, Acceptance and Reinvestment. Netphoria is a self-help forum, a place to find guidance and support for our grief, to talk to others who have lost someone dear to us—the same someone: Billy Corgan and his bandmates.

I urge you all to take a step back and realize what’s going on, and try to understand what stage you are at. I have already been through it all, and I am here to help, as a sort of councilor or mediator. Learn from my experiences. I wish you all luck.

you should start a blog..

You make me look like boarder, though. keep it up.

thats a repost ive seen that before

thats a repost ive seen that before

I'm guessing any album picked at random is bound to be better than this, why are you guys so eager to torture yourselves?

Any SP album, or any album ever?

what does that mean

I suppose an 'uneasy serenity' would be like meditating, with a cock up your ass. Or something.

I'm expecting him to cut out a little bit of the synth but not expecting the band to get its edge back - look at the members!

Will sound like Zwan

oceanias production - i can't remember who's working on the technical aspects this album and does it matter at all?

kerry's gonna save the album like all the other TGBK songs so far!

more my little pony songs!

ICHABOD is the sound of GOD talking to billy.
"hey check out this patch... it's a cool sound isn't it! put it in the song!"

i honestly don't have any expectations, positive or negative. tbk has been a mixed bag of (imo) good songs and bad songs. since this is a commercial album i expect "'A' material" but zietgeist was supposed to crush us to dust with metal or whatever, so really it could go either way

as for the sound itself it seems from whatever info is available it'll be fuzzy heavy guitars with oldskool synth. i'd take it with a grain of salt but that seems to be the blueprint for expectations

I'm expecting him to cut out a little bit of the synth but not expecting the band to get its edge back - look at the members!

No doubt. I'm having a hard time getting excited about the new "Smashing Pumpkins" album without Jimmy in the band... It all just seems a little forced.

I do believe Corgans capable of pulling a gem outta his sleeve though... I guess this album will be the "moment of truth" for me haha.

I really think the sound of his voice has been the main deterent for most people though... Hopefully he can figure that shit out.

He had it figured out but he's regressed so much....each album became progressively more grating in the vocal department until the absolute horror of TBK. I don't put much faith in his yes-man band, either....they don't strike me as particularly innovative musicians or as forceful enough individuals to attempt to assert their opinions over Corgan's.

Part of me wants to believe that Billy will respond to the negativity TBK's Jesus and Rainbows message got out of us, but I keep dreading that his response will be to make it MORE pukingly happy and MORE musically bland just out of spite.

prediction: pitchfork doesn't bother to review this, hipsters united gets upset about it, nobody cares

Long ago I fell in love with this band, because many of the musical qualities I look for in music were present in Smashing Pumpkins, more-so than other artists. But as I grew older, not only did Smashing Pumpkins evolve over time so as to no longer contain the sound-elements I look for in music, but the sound-elements themselves I look for in music evolved. We both had changed. With additional alienating factors present by the turn of 2000, I was done with the band and my grieving process began. It is my theory that Netphora is less of a fan site for The Smashing Pumpkins, but an on-line support system and community for music fans who are all in the various steps of the grieving process, for their dying and/or deceased love of The Smashing Pumpkins.

I got into the band in 1994 with Siamese Dream, when I started listening to other "alt-rock" bands. As a freshman in high school, I can clearly remember my “Big 4” were Nirvana, Nine Inch Nails, Green Day and of course Smashing Pumpkins. Other bands danced around those Big 4 such as Soundgraden, Weezer, Stone Temple Pilots and other 90s-alt-rock mainstays. But the songwriting prowess, sound-design intricacies and variance in musical arrangements made Smashing Pumpkins the leader of the pack. The summer of 1995 exposed me to their b-side collection Pisces Iscariot, which showed me they were not simply flash-in-the-pan Johnny-come-latelies; they were the real deal. This was THE band of my generation. By the time Mellon Collie was released that fall, I had already immersed myself in the more obscure Gish and was already my high school’s resident Smashing Pumpkins psycho-fan and expert.

Three years later the band released Adore on the day of the dress rehearsal of my high school graduation. It was all-too appropriate, as my musical tastes were already starting to broaden, as I abandoned the slew of MOR 90s bands and refocused on new more idiosyncratic obsessions such as Primus and Radiohead. Because of the experimentalism of Adore (as compared to their previous work) Smashing Pumpkins were able to fight hand in hand and stay in the top position as my favorite band. It was this time I began posting on Netphoria, I believe, as well as composing bass tabs and the Smashing Pumpkins Recording Sessions for the Smashing Pumpkins on-line community. But as I went off to college and looked for even more musical directions, The Smashing Pumpkins’ time was growing short. My discovery of The Flaming Lips dethroned Smashing Pumpkins, for the simple fact that they now possessed more musical qualities I sought on music. After devouring The Flaming Lips back-catalog, it was clear to me that they fit the bill more so than Smashing Pumpkins. In 1999, both artists had a new album slated for release—along with the third place contender Radiohead. Who will win in the battle for my musical heart?

The Flaming Lips released The Soft Bulletin in the summer of 1999, a radical departure from their previous work, and it set me back, giving Smashing Pumpkins an opportunity to take their lead. But the new songs leaked on their Arising Tour were not of the caliber of their previous material, even in fetal form; even the Double Door shows and the Viper Room shows demonstrated the genius of Corgan’s writing before the album was even finished. But this new material, although exciting with the return of Chamberlin, seemed to be treading water and rested solely on the renewed percussive drive rather than solid songwriting and creative arrangements. When Machina was finally released, I was hungry for new, brilliant Corgan material, but for the first time for any Smashing Pumpkins release, I was let down. The album was too long and bloated; some of the material was certainly not up to par with their previous songwriting; the production was muddy and inorganic; the packaging and artwork was unusually cryptic and unlike their former character. The release of Radiohead’s Kid A left me further confused as the musical direction of my 90’s-rock favorites. What has happened? Little did I know, at the time, this was the death of my love for Smashing Pumpkins, which only intensified as the years progressed.

The first nail in the coffin was the actual break-up of The Smashing Pumpkins in the conclusion of 2000. Over that year I was able to musically digest all three albums: Machina, Soft Bulletin and Kid A. While I had grown to accept Machina for what it was, in contrast I was able to appreciate the genius of The Soft Bulletin and Kid A. The later were challenging albums that required the listener to think outside the box, something I was able to do at that point in time; Machina was just your average album, a misstep for otherwise creative minds. But sentimentalism overtook me, and I refused to give up on Smashing Pumpkins at this point. But Corgan’s announcement that the band was breaking up shattered that nostalgia. But why did Corgan do it? One sub-par album and lack of record sales was not a great excuse to end a band, a dream, an obsession. I was now entering the denial stage of the grief cycle. This signaled to me that the band was finished, and that I should move on. Not only were Radiohead and The Flaming Lips all-too active, but I had also recently discovered other current and active bands that seemed more musically rewarding, such as elaborate Texas rockers the pAper chase and The Polyphonic Spree and local art-punk heroes Lifter Puller. The old always make-way for the new.

The final nail in the coffin was the forming of Zwan. I had always maintained the original break-up of the band was pointless and unnecessary, and they clearly had some life in them, if only to recover from Machina. But the forming of a band with not only Chamberlin behind the kit, but with classic Corgan songwriting, stylistic similarities to The Smashing Pumpkins and even a female bass player? This was a lie; Corgan should not have broken up the band if his next project was simply Smashing Pumpkins 2.0. This was supposed to be the new Smashing Pumpkins album! Why did my love have to die if it was just to be continued a year and a half later? But my love was already invested in the other aforementioned acts. All that remained was contempt for Billy Corgan. I was now in the anger stage of the grief cycle.

Graduating from college in 2002, my musical tastes began to change yet again as my eyes set upon the slew of Elephant 6 bands such as Olivia Tremor Control, The Sunshine Fix, Circulatory System, of Montreal and Neutral Milk Hotel, that seemed to break all the rules that my 90s alt-rock favorites seemed to construct. In 2004 my daughter was born and my 200+ collection of Smashing Pumpkins CDs tapes and vinyl were sold for diaper-money. I did not at all regret it, as I was more interested in her well being, and I had already created a modest collection of Elephant 6 discs to construct my life’s soundtrack. Now I realize I was in the acceptance and reinvestment stages of the grieving process. I had long ago accepted the death of my favorite band, but I knew there would always be better bands, new musical discoveries to be made. Besides, would Smashing Pumpkins continue to define me musically anyways? No, they did not. Siamese Dream was always there to enjoy, but I had accepted that this band no longer exists and never will… ever.

Over this time, I would continually go back to Netphoria, but not because of my love for The Smashing Pumpkins. At the time I labeled it as “out of habit” but I believe there are deeper psychological reasons why I—and all of us—keep coming back to this god forsaken forum. Because I needed help in dealing with my grief in losing my favorite band, the soundtrack to my adolescence, and although I never realized it at the time, this is what Netphoria provided. We are all at various stages of our grief cycle: Denial, Anger, Sadness, Acceptance and Reinvestment. Netphoria is a self-help forum, a place to find guidance and support for our grief, to talk to others who have lost someone dear to us—the same someone: Billy Corgan and his bandmates.

I urge you all to take a step back and realize what’s going on, and try to understand what stage you are at. I have already been through it all, and I am here to help, as a sort of councilor or mediator. Learn from my experiences. I wish you all luck.

Nice to read.
I am at the phase between Sadness and Acceptance...

prediction: pitchfork doesn't bother to review this, hipsters united gets upset about it, nobody cares
no way.. PF loves to hate on SP.
they even bothered giving zeitgeist a 4.9 IIRC

they could probably copy paste from it too
Of course, nobody wants progression from the Smashing Pumpkins, that's the whole point of manufacturing this reunion in the first place. In that sense, Zeitgeist is interesting as a demonstration that the artist himself is usually not be the best person to play historian for his own career. Given the chance to revisit the good old days, Corgan has unearthed only a portion of the Pumpkins character-- and while that portion is meticulously revived, all the parts left behind remain sorely missed. In the end, it's the one-dimensional approach, not the lack of half the original members, that leaves Smashing Pumpkins Mk. II a cardboard cutout of the real thing-- not the empty ATM-reunion it could have been, but still a ghost of the old band.

my little pony songs




that is the PERFECT capsule description of TBK

that is the PERFECT capsule description of TBK

you never saw this:
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i predict half the songs will be about chemtrails

I thought Isle would get all excited about Panopticon being a possible Machine reference (wasn't it one of the sub sites during the whole machina mystery phase?)

Of course, nobody wants progression from the Smashing Pumpkins, that's the whole point of manufacturing this reunion in the first place. In that sense, Zeitgeist is interesting as a demonstration that the artist himself is usually not be the best person to play historian for his own career. Given the chance to revisit the good old days, Corgan has unearthed only a portion of the Pumpkins character-- and while that portion is meticulously revived, all the parts left behind remain sorely missed. In the end, it's the one-dimensional approach, not the lack of half the original members, that leaves Smashing Pumpkins Mk. II a cardboard cutout of the real thing-- not the empty ATM-reunion it could have been, but still a ghost of the old band.

Is that from Pitchfork? It's actually dead-on.

I'm somewhere in Anger/Sadness, I think. Mostly sadness at this point.

The grieving process as I've learned about it is denial, anger, bargaining, sadness, acceptance. And you can bounce back and forth. But anyway, I think you're pretty much spot on soniclovenoize (at least for some of the forum). I enjoyed your post.

I predict it will suck.

I'm somewhere in Anger/Sadness, I think. Mostly sadness at this point.

The grieving process as I've learned about it is denial, anger, bargaining, sadness, acceptance. And you can bounce back and forth. But anyway, I think you're pretty much spot on soniclovenoize (at least for some of the forum). I enjoyed your post.

Yeah, there's a few different versions of Grief Cycle, I'm only going by the one I was taught from a treatment program.

I predict it will suck.

:hurl:

I thought Isle would get all excited about Panopticon being a possible Machina reference (wasn't it one of the sub sites during the whole machina mystery phase?)

Rings a bell, though the only sub site I saw myself was Paracell.

He will have tried to make it sound as much like 93-95 Pumpkins as humanly possibly. That is my prediction.

I predict we will be crestfallen.

this album will have terrible drumming.
as with episode 1 some people will defend it straight away, but not much time later realize how much they are wrong and begin to trash it for rep.

what the fuck is "episode 1"?

Phantom Menace

originally posted by ???:

Pale Horse - possibly a reference to the 1991 book "Behold a Pale Horse" by the noted late conspiracy theorist Bill Cooper. I have not read it, and only have a vague idea of what its about.


really. Heck of an inference on your part. Cooper called out George H. Bush being a drug running CIA spook in the early 70's before anybody knew who George was. Those lectures are on Youtube somewhere.

I think it may be more musically satisfying and/or interesting than either Zeitgeist or TBK, and perhaps sound much more akin to the genuine "oldskool" Pumpkins sound.

I could be extremely wrong about this, however. There's no telling what's going on in the studio to fuck that possibility up (other than the distinct non-presence of JC.)

I predict it will be more pussy jesus loving clown music.

/Oboard

wow

It will reach a new low for SP just as every release after Adore has

this album will have terrible drumming.
as with episode 1 some people will defend it straight away, but not much time later realize how much they are wrong and begin to trash it for rep.

geek alert:banging:

geek alert:banging:

and a proud one at that! :cool:

and a proud one at that! :cool:

not a fan of jar jar binks i guess?

Rings a bell, though the only sub site I saw myself was Paracell.

I'm not mad - someone else remembers it as well:
http://www.nachtkabaret.com/SmashingPumpkins/SecretSites

So Isle: Machina tarot flirtation is similar to TGBK

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

i wish NK had finished those articles.


one question that just came to mind- how did the sites come to exist, and how were they found and unlocked? i mean of course billy must have commissioned some web designers/researchers to work on them, but then how were the usernames and passwords decoded with basically no clues to go on? i doubt that even the most dedicated machina fan would have been able to crack them through guesswork as the answers were very obscure. do you think the site makers spilled the beans and could we contact them to give NK the rest of the info he needs?

the sites were found from clues and easter eggs from the splash page of the o-site, if i remember correctly

the only one i remember off hand was "black wings over america"

not a fan of jar jar binks i guess?

not at all, I hate everything about the prequels, tbh

this album will have terrible drumming.
as with episode 1 some people will defend it straight away, but not much time later realize how much they are wrong and begin to trash it for rep.

Yeah I cant get excited about it with Mike Byrne behind the skins. Listen to a song like Lightning Strikes: he has no idea how to vibe with a song... He drums all bombastically and hard hitting when the song doesn't even call for it at all... Its seriously annoying. Often times it sounds like hes trying to overcompensate and it just sounds like cluttered shit.

Another note: take what Billy says about how Oceania will sound with a grain of salt... He said Lightning Strikes was going to be a "Rocker"

Yeah I cant get excited about it with Mike Byrne behind the skins. Listen to a song like Lightning Strikes: he has no idea how to vibe with a song... He drums all bombastically and hard hitting when the song doesn't even call for it at all... Its seriously annoying. Often times it sounds like hes trying to overcompensate and it just sounds like cluttered shit.

completely agree!! it's not that he can't play. the problem is that his drumlines are tasteless and annoying.

Yeah its like often times it sounds like hes trying to say: "Look guys i do have talent, i am a good drummer!!!" but its just pointless bombastic fills and shit that doesn't add to the overall cohesion of the song.

Part of the problem I guess is; Back in the day when Jimmy was playing fast intense mind melting parts it was to super fast and intense guitar riffs so Jimmy had no choice but to play that way...

Mike Byrnes trying to take that mindset and add it to pop generic rock like Lightning Strikes and it just doesn't work at all.

he's probably just doing what he's told

^yeah. remember the stuff he came up with on the spot during the auditions? his musical ear is excellent. i haven't watched many live clips of his playing but TBK's production has rendered the drums blunt and for the most part inaudible. his style isn't quite as swing-influenced as jimmy's but some of his fills and grooves are just as good. his fills in the opening of Lightning Strikes are awesome.

I think you might have misused the word awesome there Isle.

I think it may be more musically satisfying and/or interesting than either Zeitgeist or TBK, and perhaps sound much more akin to the genuine "oldskool" Pumpkins sound.



...what makes you say that?

...what makes you say that?
The very muddled but interesting clip of Quasar...which apparently is on the album. You could stick that shit on Mashed Potatoes between 365 and Cinder and it wouldn't sound out of place at all. It's interesting to me that he would even resurrect the 1990 live sound for a song on the album.

This is the 'clip' in question - sounds like the full song, but obviously it's muddy as fuck.

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And of course we know this song is on it as well:

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^yeah. remember the stuff he came up with on the spot during the auditions? his musical ear is excellent. i haven't watched many live clips of his playing but TBK's production has rendered the drums blunt and for the most part inaudible. his style isn't quite as swing-influenced as jimmy's but some of his fills and grooves are just as good. his fills in the opening of Lightning Strikes are awesome.

he's actually slightly behind on the back half of that first fill but whatever, who cares, it's pretty competent

the main issue with these songs is that there's nothing new. bill is not approaching his music from any kind of design direction. he's just spitting out the same old structures and harmony with hyper-generic lyrics (formerly a contradiction but apparently... yeah) and emotionless delivery

yeah there are cool bits here and there but that's not how you make songs HULLO

i guess soniclovenoise was right about that grieving whatever, we just need another stage

like, i know not to expect quality. but, on some level, i keep hoping for a grain of decent songwriting.

there's no reason bill doesn't have it in him to write and record good songs again. guy just needs to stop listening to yeasayers and stop worrying about how anything is perceived.

it's art, right? guy has a tonne of cash; use it! do whatever the hell makes you happy, make awesome stuff! you're never going to be super-teen-hero-popular again; that's a bullshit idiot crusade that can only be won by the young and stupid.

why care what anyone thinks? we're all dead in the end. stop worrying about the audience and just make something wonderful.

/ dear bill / i figured out life but i'm poor / jesus christ stop wasting your fucking luck

if that doesn't make it clear, this should.

HOLY SHIT how unexpectedly superlative is this. it's accessible, it's literate, it's complicated, it's simple, it's delicate, it's moving. it's unpredictable. when did the smashing pumpkins last do this? mmhmm.

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billy is settling for making middle alternative.

like, i know not to expect quality. but, on some level, i keep hoping for a grain of decent songwriting.

there's no reason bill doesn't have it in him to write and record good songs again. guy just needs to stop listening to yeasayers and stop worrying about how anything is perceived.

it's art, right? guy has a tonne of cash; use it! do whatever the hell makes you happy, make awesome stuff! you're never going to be super-teen-hero-popular again; that's a bullshit idiot crusade that can only be won by the young and stupid.

why care what anyone thinks? we're all dead in the end. stop worrying about the audience and just make something wonderful.

/ dear bill / i figured out life but i'm poor / jesus christ stop wasting your fucking luck

In the grieving process I learned, this would be bargaining.

If only this, everything would be okay. Maybe this time will be diffferent. Etc. Bargaining

well the guy isn't going to change

it's more, uh... bill managed to make some pretty good albums in the 90s. there's a chance he'll somehow do it again

a chance along the lines of winning the lottery twice whatevs RADIOHEAD

fuck radiohead and thom yorke in the ass.


Oceania will be a pretty awesome record. Too bad that won't be able to replicate that album live though.

I feel like the opposite is more likely.

Is that from Pitchfork? It's actually dead-on.

people still hate them from when they'd encourage their reviewers to go off on digressive, elitist tangents (and they were right to hate, there are reviews from three or four years ago that are just flat unreadable) but it's a perfectly respectable and fair review site if a bit much with the hype, and the decimal point reviews are stupid and they disappear into their own ass sometimes. The other part of Pitchfork hate is the whole I HATE HIPSTERS bullshit but who really cares about people trying to justify clutching to their dated high school nostalgia anyway? Pitchfork is mainstream, not some kind of carefully honed hipster secret.

they don't bag on the pumpkins all the time, in fact they glowingly refer to them on occasion and it's just like most of us here, we're just bagging on the fact that the band used to be incredible sonically and it's just completely washed out and half-assed now. and Corgan is a big joke anyway, he always was. he definitely succeeded in spite of his personality.

Besides, right now on Pitchfork.tv you can watch video of Deerhunter playing Nothing Ever Happened live at the festival this summer so how could you hate Pitchfork that much???

if you want to know a smug site full of hipster bs check out Tiny Mix Tapes. It's like someone was reading Pitchfork and said "I like it but it could be way douchier and snotty."

oh pitchfork's continued liability is its fawning love of brooklyn based girl/boy power pop duos like Sleigh Bells and Cults

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/7342-nyc-ghosts-flowers/

Sonic Youth
NYC Ghosts & Flowers
Geffen; 2000

By Brent DiCrescenzo; April 30, 2000
0.0

No, I have not forgotten to put the numbers into the rating spaces above. In over two years of writing for Pitchfork, I've waited for the one album that would warrant a 0.0--


i think i stopped paying attention to pitchfork that day

yeah that album has some good songs

if you want to know a smug site full of hipster bs check out Tiny Mix Tapes. It's like someone was reading Pitchfork and said "I like it but it could be way douchier and snotty."

i know the kids that started tmt and they're really just big nerds with a love for weirdo cult objects and zonked sounds. i don't see the harm in that.

horrible things are like witch-house.com

TMT really isn't bad. they just don't do mainstream stuff, i hardly find them holier then thou in the content they actually do review.

want a bad reviews, check out blogs like http://sammusicreview.blogspot.com/

i think it's snotty to review mainstream albums just to slam them

there was a great interview with michael gira but that has more to do with his profound intellect and eloquence than someone asking questions

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/7342-nyc-ghosts-flowers/

Sonic Youth
NYC Ghosts & Flowers
Geffen; 2000

By Brent DiCrescenzo; April 30, 2000
0.0

No, I have not forgotten to put the numbers into the rating spaces above. In over two years of writing for Pitchfork, I've waited for the one album that would warrant a 0.0--


i think i stopped paying attention to pitchfork that day

that was 11 years ago dude

get over it

i think it's snotty to review mainstream albums just to slam them

there was a great interview with michael gira but that has more to do with his profound intellect and eloquence than someone asking questions
I saw the Swans a year a go and it was a work of genius.
the last time SP came to my town it was to headline Osheaga (a local mainstream festival that tries to be indie). It's not the club tour of 2000 or any of the other shows that came to my town before that.

SWANS were just out of control live.

there was a great interview with michael gira but that has more to do with his profound intellect and eloquence than someone asking questions

shouldn't that be the ultimate goal of every interviewer?

that was 11 years ago dude

get over it
i said i stopped paying attention so there.

it's incredible that this embarassing review is still online, and the second hit on google when you search for 'sonic youth nyc ghosts and flowers'.

all in all you gotta love people who review music they don't understand.

pitchfork, at least used to be, just a collection of random bloggers. big deal one guy didn't like nyc ghosts/flowers. i'm sure there are plenty of other pitchfork reviews that champion the thing.

some of you act like there are nefarious board meetings with shadowy figures coming up with the next "adam sandler mixtape" or "u2 ipod" like a giant conspiracy to control musical taste and guide popular opinion.

oh wait that's the government but a website about bands is a pretty good place to start your advocacy and let your voice be heard, right?

uh?

I thought the TBK songs generally sounded better live.

Except maybe Fellowship.

Pitchfork is the best music site out there

shouldn't that be the ultimate goal of every interviewer?

perhaps

Nicole:

I think because we are all working together on this record it is naturally going to have a different vibe than any of the other records on which Billy played most of the instruments himself. I think we delved into new territory for sure, but what I love about this record is that it has that familiar old-school Pumpkins feel to it, with a modern twist. The cool thing is he was able to capture the energy of the old material without ripping it off. Billy’s definitely found his way back to whatever he was tapping into when writing Gish and SD. You can’t explain it, but as a listener, you just know that you connect with it when you hear it. That’s how I felt when I first heard those records and that’s how I feel about this one, albeit it’s a slightly different experience because I actually played on this record!

http://bassmusicianmagazine.com/2011/10/bass-musician-magazine-featuring-smashing-pumpkins-bass-player-nicole-fiorentino-%E2%80%93-october-2011-issue/

Oh, and:

Geek U.S.A. (which we will play on the next tour)

"Billy’s definitely found his way back to whatever he was tapping into when writing Gish and SD."

since the "reunion" billy should be finding his way back to whatever he was tapping into when writing MCIS.

besides wasn't gish/sd mainly fueled by cheap cheeseburgers, cheap tequila, and cheap acid?

besides wasn't gish/sd mainly fueled by cheap cheeseburgers, cheap tequila, and cheap acid?


like most of the best music <img src="http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4828/icontwisted.gif">

as well as my posts <img src="http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4828/icontwisted.gif">

they will play geek usa with mickey on drums?

i'm sorry i didn't mean "cheap" i meant "inexpensive"

mikey shambles

interestingly some of corgan's post-'reunion' work has also been fueled by cheap tequila

if you follow my meaning <img src="http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4828/icontwisted.gif">

lolol

didn't they not even try geek usa with matt walker?

didn't they not even try geek usa with matt walker?

Definitely not

should be a nice trainwreck

Pointless middle eight added to My Love Is Winter that ruins the flow of the song
More harmonising guitar solos

Amish family vocal harmonies
http://cbswxrt.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/billy_385.jpg

they're mormons, not amish

the amish can be morons too.



edit: oh you said mormons.... well same difference.

Which song did he sing during that performance again? That was sooo fucking bizarre that thankfully I forgot about it.

Wonder how soon we will get some recordings of the new songs played tonight.

Which song did he sing during that performance again? That was sooo fucking bizarre that thankfully I forgot about it.

widow wake my mind