View Full Version : SP's "comeback" has given me more respect for Aerosmith


morespsoon
06-11-2011, 07:37 AM
The way Aerosmith came back from being forgotten to being more popular than ever in the 80s and 90s... I know most people on this site will say they "sold out" and I'll agree that they had some corny pop songs during that time but I think overall their music from "Permanent Vacation" to "Nine Lives" is better than their music previous to that. James Iha said music is primarily about having fun and those are very fun albums.

(By the way, aren't songs like "That's the way my love goes" and "Honestly" just as corny and sell-outish as anything Aersosmith ever did?)

Nonetheless, when you look at how Billy Corgan is struggling in his comeback attempt with the Pumpkins I don't see how anyone can't have more respect for what Aerosmith accomplished. Do you agree? Why or why not?

SlingeroGuitaro
06-11-2011, 07:53 AM
Aerosmith didn't even write their biggest song.

scottytheoneand
06-11-2011, 08:15 AM
Fail

Kahlo
06-11-2011, 09:00 AM
My Smashing Pumpkins theory <hr style="color:#000000" size="1"> I think Billy Corgan is still writing great music but he's secretly selling it to younger/hotter artists...

We know he's written songs for Hole and I read he wrote songs for Jessica Simpson?

It seems to me that it's the only theory that fits all the evidence...

Why would the "Pumpkins" spend time recording songs that even hard core fans hate? Maybe it's because only the B-sides and C-sides are getting released as SP tunes while the A-sides are secretly being sold to other artists?

A great artist like Billy Corgan doesn't completely fall off a cliff like he has...my theory fits all the pieces together, imho.

SlingeroGuitaro
06-11-2011, 09:07 AM
ive thought that for a long time

SlingeroGuitaro
06-11-2011, 09:16 AM
but then i think billy wants the credit, so he doesnt.

Kahlo
06-11-2011, 09:23 AM
Ozzy Osbourne's latest album "Scream" has to be one of the greatest achievements in rock n roll history, imho. It's the best album I've heard in at least 10 years and it was recorded by a 61 year old...

I think "Scream" is Ozzy's best solo album ever. He hadn't done anything close to the quality of "Scream" in ages. What does that mean for Billy Corgan?

Will Billy Corgan still be recording in his 60s?

Could Billy Corgan have a resurgence out of nowhere like Ozzy?

Order 66
06-11-2011, 09:42 AM
IMO part of why SP was so popular in the 90s was the image. yes gish through MCIS had very good music, but the image is what carried alot of the commercial heft. something about two twenty something white guys, a girly looking japanese man and a blonde clicked with people.

now that's stripped in lieu of a forty year old bald guy and a revolving door of musicians ... so even if every song was mindblowing i don't think the popularity would be there for a comeback renaissance because nobody would be buying the albums and billy would still be bitching and we'd still be making 'why can't billy get it right?' threads

you can say 'yeah, but it's not about popularity, its the music. why can't he comeback with that kind of quality?' but aerosmith is a studio product. they don't even write much of their own music. their comeback was more or less tailor made for the industry

scottytheoneand
06-11-2011, 10:20 AM
My Smashing Pumpkins theory <hr style="color:#000000" size="1">
A great artist like Billy Corgan doesn't completely fall off a cliff like he has...my theory fits all the pieces together, imho.

He fell off the cliff when Jimmy left.

It broke his heart. And I don't mean that as a joke. I think it fucked him up more than he's admitted. He pulled his usual schtick at first, saying he fired JC. That's what he does when thinks people have abandoned him. :cry:

Some of the Zeitgeist material was good, and some of the post Zeitgeist stuff was pretty good. the sound on AG was an interesting turn for the Band.

But I can only explain the recorded music from 09-10 as a total mental break. With JC gone, who was he collaborating with in the Studio? Kerry? Mike? All people on his payroll.

He stated last year and recently on their blog that he thought SP was essentially dead in allbut name when JC left. The TBK shit was billy, Mike and Kerry fucking around in the studio and leaving the SP sound behind.

Then he stated that the new band had shaken him up and that he's back on track with them, collaborating as a group to make rock songs again.

If he uses that fucking Ichabod to litter the new songs with the Owata/Pretty Pony sound, we'll know that his mental break with rock n roll is permanent. If all the fuzz we've been promised really materializes, I think it'll be a real turnaround.



I think if you want to look at a really good example of a Rock icon who achieved a really impressive comeback, you have to look at Bob Dylan. By the 80s the guy was done. But he's had several incredibly great records in the past 20 years. It's rare that a 60-70 year old can pull that shit off.

Another one would be Neil Young. If you can wade through some of his turds, you'll find that he's continued to make really great music.

scottytheoneand
06-11-2011, 10:25 AM
IMO part of why SP was so popular in the 90s was the image. yes gish through MCIS had very good music, but the image is what carried alot of the commercial heft. something about two twenty something white guys, a girly looking japanese man and a blonde clicked with people.

now that's stripped in lieu of a forty year old bald guy and a revolving door of musicians ... so even if every song was mindblowing i don't think the popularity would be there for a comeback renaissance because nobody would be buying the albums and billy would still be bitching and we'd still be making 'why can't billy get it right?' threads

you can say 'yeah, but it's not about popularity, its the music. why can't he comeback with that kind of quality?' but aerosmith is a studio product. they don't even write much of their own music. their comeback was more or less tailor made for the industry

That!

SP will never again sell 20 million albums in a year, and massive tours that fill stadiums, and put half a dozen songs off one album in the top 100 singles charts. The world has changed, the music industry has changed.

that is OVER. But billy isn't stupid. He's still a great song writer, and he's got it in him to make great music. As long as the music is good, he'll have enough fans to continue to record and release his shit.

cork_soaker
06-11-2011, 10:42 AM
The way Aerosmith came back from being forgotten to being more popular than ever in the 80s and 90s... I know most people on this site will say they "sold out" and I'll agree that they had some corny pop songs during that time but I think overall their music from "Permanent Vacation" to "Nine Lives" is better than their music previous to that. James Iha said music is primarily about having fun and those are very fun albums.

(By the way, aren't songs like "That's the way my love goes" and "Honestly" just as corny and sell-outish as anything Aersosmith ever did?)

Nonetheless, when you look at how Billy Corgan is struggling in his comeback attempt with the Pumpkins I don't see how anyone can't have more respect for what Aerosmith accomplished. Do you agree? Why or why not?

http://forums.netphoria.org/images/reputation//reputation_neg.gif

Kahlo
06-11-2011, 10:56 AM
"ToLoveSomebody" was the greatest wasted oppurtunity in Billy's history? <hr style="color:#000000" size="1"> Yes! Billy Corgan and Robert Smith could have created anything, ANYTHING musically. We could have gotten one of the greatest tunes ever... but no, we got a forgettable cover that I want to skip every time it comes on!

Kahlo
06-11-2011, 12:04 PM
SP2 = Spinal Tap <hr style="color:#000000" size="1"> I'm talking "This is Spinal Tap" here. After watching their latest performance of "United States", it dawned on me that Billy Corgan is now going through his "Spinal Tap" faze. It's all there: a big comeback tour starting in a foreign country, the ridiculous costumes, the new members, the "rocking" new music that sounds over the top and absurd, poorly planned promo ideas, the inability to stay relevant in a music business that's passed you by, etc.

SP2 is looking more and more like Spinal Tap and it hurts me to say it because I'm a big fan. :cry:

slunken
06-11-2011, 12:05 PM
The way Aerosmith came back from being forgotten to being more popular than ever in the 80s and 90s... I know most people on this site will say they "sold out" and I'll agree that they had some corny pop songs during that time but I think overall their music from "Permanent Vacation" to "Nine Lives" is better than their music previous to that. James Iha said music is primarily about having fun and those are very fun albums.

(By the way, aren't songs like "That's the way my love goes" and "Honestly" just as corny and sell-outish as anything Aersosmith ever did?)

Nonetheless, when you look at how Billy Corgan is struggling in his comeback attempt with the Pumpkins I don't see how anyone can't have more respect for what Aerosmith accomplished. Do you agree? Why or why not?

It's funny how bands like Led Zep are mythologized because their career ended, yet most bands with huge decade-spanning discographies are ignored or made fun of by most music lovers.

anyways Aerosmith is/was a great band.

Kahlo
06-11-2011, 12:07 PM
was

slunken
06-11-2011, 12:08 PM
pretty much yea

redbreegull
06-11-2011, 12:11 PM
Aerosmiths first four albums are great, but everything after that ranges from wildly inconsistent to unlistenable, and yes, they brought in outside songwriters for nearly everything after Joe Perry came back for Permanent Vacation, and I cannot have any respect for that whatsoever. Nine Lives is pretty interesting and it rocks hard, but every single song is credited to Tyler/Perry/insert random other writer's name here, and frankly that sucks.

I would rather Billy make awful music forever than resort to having some record company fuck stick write his songs for him.

SlingeroGuitaro
06-11-2011, 12:15 PM
SP2 = Spinal Tap <hr style="color:#000000" size="1"> I'm talking "This is Spinal Tap" here. After watching their latest performance of "United States", it dawned on me that Billy Corgan is now going through his "Spinal Tap" faze. It's all there: a big comeback tour starting in a foreign country, the ridiculous costumes, the new members, the "rocking" new music that sounds over the top and absurd, poorly planned promo ideas, the inability to stay relevant in a music business that's passed you by, etc.

SP2 is looking more and more like Spinal Tap and it hurts me to say it because I'm a big fan. :cry:

How dare you slight spinal tap like that.

scottytheoneand
06-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Aerosmiths first four albums are great, but everything after that ranges from wildly inconsistent to unlistenable, and yes, they brought in outside songwriters for nearly everything after Joe Perry came back for Permanent Vacation, and I cannot have any respect for that whatsoever. Nine Lives is pretty interesting and it rocks hard, but every single song is credited to Tyler/Perry/insert random other writer's name here, and frankly that sucks.

I would rather Billy make awful music forever than resort to having some record company fuck stick write his songs for him.

that

TheAeroplane
06-11-2011, 03:23 PM
I hate Aerosmith and I hate Steven Victor Tallarico.

Ihaguitar
06-11-2011, 04:22 PM
My Smashing Pumpkins theory <hr style="color:#000000" size="1"> I think Billy Corgan is still writing great music but he's secretly selling it to younger/hotter artists...




Yeah? Who? Cos I don't see it (or hear it!).

soniclovenoize
06-11-2011, 04:34 PM
The way Aerosmith came back from being forgotten to being more popular than ever in the 80s and 90s... I know most people on this site will say they "sold out" and I'll agree that they had some corny pop songs during that time but I think overall their music from "Permanent Vacation" to "Nine Lives" is better than their music previous to that. James Iha said music is primarily about having fun and those are very fun albums.

(By the way, aren't songs like "That's the way my love goes" and "Honestly" just as corny and sell-outish as anything Aersosmith ever did?)

Nonetheless, when you look at how Billy Corgan is struggling in his comeback attempt with the Pumpkins I don't see how anyone can't have more respect for what Aerosmith accomplished. Do you agree? Why or why not?

They started using professional songwriters for their "comeback." Look up the songwriting credits from all the albums of the 90s and 00s, they wrote very few (if any) of them.

Kahlo
06-11-2011, 04:50 PM
Yeah? Who? Cos I don't see it (or hear it!).

How dare you slight spinal tap like that.

Get back to morespsoon - I'm reposting their words from their other shitty threads.

Rider
06-11-2011, 05:05 PM
They started using professional songwriters for their "comeback." Look up the songwriting credits from all the albums of the 90s and 00s, they wrote very few (if any) of them.

You might want to actually look up something when you tell others to do it.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Get_a_Grip

Wrote or co-wrote every song.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Nine_Lives_(Aerosmith_album))

Wrote or co-wrote every song

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Just_Push_Play

Wrote or co-wrote every song.



The only hit song they have that they didn't write is "I Don't Want To Miss A Thing" which was a cover done for a soundtrack.

soniclovenoize
06-11-2011, 09:19 PM
You might want to actually look up something when you tell others to do it.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Get_a_Grip

Wrote or co-wrote every song.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Nine_Lives_(Aerosmith_album)

Wrote or co-wrote every song

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Just_Push_Play

Wrote or co-wrote every song.



The only hit song they have that they didn't write is "I Don't Want To Miss A Thing" which was a cover done for a soundtrack.
USER REQUESTED STOP

I have seen the credits, all but one or two songs were written by either professional songwriters or outside talent, which was my point. Not sure why you're trying to instigate an argument here.

Rider
06-11-2011, 09:44 PM
USER REQUESTED STOP

I have seen the credits, all but one or two songs were written by either professional songwriters or outside talent, which was my point. Not sure why you're trying to instigate an argument here.

What argument Tyler has a credit on every single song Perry has a credit on the vast majority of them, you are wrong they have writing credits on every single song they have released over the past 20 years not including covers.

Not sure why you are continuing to argue when I link to credits for every single song for the past 20 years and everyone can see that you are very very wrong.

soniclovenoize
06-11-2011, 09:57 PM
lol OK

Rider
06-11-2011, 10:00 PM
lol OK

So you're saying the links are wrong. Are Perry and Tyler lying?

Just admit it, you were wrong.

soniclovenoize
06-11-2011, 10:13 PM
Just admit it, you were wrong.

They started using professional songwriters for their "comeback." Look up the songwriting credits from all the albums of the 90s and 00s, they wrote very few (if any) of them.

all but one or two songs were written by either professional songwriters or outside talent, which was my point.

lol but I still love you Rider.

Rider
06-11-2011, 10:25 PM
lol but I still love you Rider.


they wrote very few (if any) of them.

You keep saying the songs were written by others. They were not written by others, they were written by Perry and Tyler with a partner, in some cases two partners.

They wrote every single one of them with song writing partners. Desmond Childs in the 80's, Glen Ballard and a few others in the 90's....

But they still wrote the damn songs.

Not sure why in your world using an outside song writing partner means you didn't write the songs. I guess Brian Wilson didn't write any of Pet Sounds or Smile.

exactlythesame
06-11-2011, 10:32 PM
lol but I still love you Rider.

are you high? your arguments don't make any sense. at first you claim that asmith's songs were written by outsiders, rider contends they weren't, and then you're somehow agreeing with him?

Rider
06-11-2011, 10:34 PM
are you high? your arguments don't make any sense. at first you claim that asmith's songs were written by outsiders, rider contends they weren't, and then you're somehow agreeing with him?

I'm not sure he even understands his own posts.

slunken
06-11-2011, 11:02 PM
no i get it - and i know rider knows a lot about the industry as well as soniclove and myself (to a limited extent) but in most cases a hook or melody or lyric snippet is created by tyler/perry and then that is turned over to a pro songwriter to make it a full song. this happened in the 50s/60s all the time. that's why on the 45s the credit is always (for the people who "wrote" their own tunes) ARTIST LAST NAME/SOMEBODY ELSE'S LAST NAME. it takes the professional to put the "professional" touches on it and make it super sellable (supposedly)

so i mean - yea - at this point in aero's careers it's totally a copout because they're just too lazy to do it themselves - it's like working in a factory. sure, all those thomas kinkaid paintings are really "his" but they were created in a warehouse by trained employees. steve is like a hundred years old and can't be bothered to have rehearsal 5 days a week to write new songs for the new album that needs to come out to pay the bills etc.

so is it a copout or not? that's the real debate here.

Rider
06-11-2011, 11:22 PM
no i get it - and i know rider knows a lot about the industry as well as soniclove and myself (to a limited extent) but in most cases a hook or melody or lyric snippet is created by tyler/perry and then that is turned over to a pro songwriter to make it a full song. this happened in the 50s/60s all the time. that's why on the 45s the credit is always (for the people who "wrote" their own tunes) ARTIST LAST NAME/SOMEBODY ELSE'S LAST NAME. it takes the professional to put the "professional" touches on it and make it super sellable (supposedly)

so i mean - yea - at this point in aero's careers it's totally a copout because they're just too lazy to do it themselves - it's like working in a factory. sure, all those thomas kinkaid paintings are really "his" but they were created in a warehouse by trained employees. steve is like a hundred years old and can't be bothered to have rehearsal 5 days a week to write new songs for the new album that needs to come out to pay the bills etc.

so is it a copout or not? that's the real debate here.

Actually the real cop out is that they haven't recorded an album in a decade. That surprised me. That song Pink came out 13 years ago. They are basically a greatest hits touring band now. They tour every year, but the last thing they recorded was a covers album in 2004.

That might be the trick just stop recording at a certain point. They were already at the point where they couldn't fit all there hits in a show so what's the point of making more hits if people will come see you perform 30 years worth of old stuff.

morespsoon
06-11-2011, 11:43 PM
Actually the real cop out is that they haven't recorded an album in a decade. That surprised me. That song Pink came out 13 years ago. They are basically a greatest hits touring band now. They tour every year, but the last thing they recorded was a covers album in 2004.

That might be the trick just stop recording at a certain point. They were already at the point where they couldn't fit all there hits in a show so what's the point of making more hits if people will come see you perform 30 years worth of old stuff.

"I know I get motivated when I think about a 20 album vinyl set of my demos from 1985-1994, even if only 500 fans wanted every one, because it means together we get to make something permanent that requires love, and a cover photo, and some liner notes, etc. In essence it is motivating to share more than just a digital file; to make art." - Billy Corgan

I like Billy Corgan's idea and attitude here. :smoke:

FoolofaTook
06-11-2011, 11:54 PM
do you like it enough to eat out his asshole?

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 01:04 AM
Rider is correct that Tyler/Perry are credited on most songs, but the thing is, no one actually knows how much those outside writers were responsible for, and there really isn't an excuse for utilizing other songwriters on virtually EVERY tune you have written for 30 years... In my eyes that is pretty much the ultimate form of selling out.

If you listen to the stuff that is just credited to the band members and then listen to the stuff starting after they began bringing in other writers, there is an undeniably significant shift in their music. I guess they could have just decided to start writing far more accessible songs, but since nothing they did previously gave hint towards that polished pop sound, I would say it is more likely that other songwriters have played a major role in crafting their "new" sound.

morespsoon
06-12-2011, 01:12 AM
"Dream On" has to be one of the most polished rock songs of all time. I think their music was always extremely polished and accessible as far as hard rock goes.

Rider
06-12-2011, 01:26 AM
"Dream On" has to be one of the most polished rock songs of all time. I think their music was always extremely polished and accessible as far as hard rock goes.

They walked the line well, they were a dirty raunchy blues band, but at the same time Tyler had plenty of writing partners back than also. You See Me Crying is just as pop as polished for the mid '70s as anything they have done the past 20 years:

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/szWVgukqi78?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/szWVgukqi78?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="349" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 01:41 AM
"Dream On" has to be one of the most polished rock songs of all time. I think their music was always extremely polished and accessible as far as hard rock goes.

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/V6Wt3a_B7-c?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

They were just as heavy as any other band in the early 70s. Dream On is a pop song, yes, but there isn't another song on their debut that sound anything like it.

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 01:42 AM
BTW Nobody's Fault is from Rocks, not s/t, just demonstrating the hard rock crunch that defined their early sound

morespsoon
06-12-2011, 01:45 AM
They walked the line well, they were a dirty raunchy blues band


They were just as heavy as any other band in the early 70s.

Interesting how opinions can vary this much.

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 01:52 AM
if anything, listening to Aerosmith's newer music gives me more respect for Billy Corgan. The guy is a lunatic who makes awful music these days, but at least he isn't sucking record label dick and bringing in the guys who write songs for the backstreet boys

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 01:52 AM
and also at least he didn't make an album with timbaland god damn

Rider
06-12-2011, 02:09 AM
I think I would rather have good disposable pop crap, than the shinny happy unlistenable pop crap he is trying to write now.

morespsoon
06-12-2011, 02:28 AM
Sometimes the ends justify the means...

Bring in outside writers, whatever's necessary to create something good. Why waste your time with garbage?

BTW, if you've watched any behind the scenes footage of Aerosmith recording it's obvious they were writing the songs at least going by the video footage.

RenewRevive
06-12-2011, 06:22 AM
I think I would rather have good disposable pop crap, than the shinny happy unlistenable pop crap he is trying to write now.

nah, can't agree with you there. i would rather he never writes another song i like than resort to this kind of soulless junk.

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 10:22 AM
nah, can't agree with you there. i would rather he never writes another song i like than resort to this kind of soulless junk.

agreed. At the risk of sounding ridiculous, I am going to say that rider and morespoon seem to have forgotten what smashing pumpkins was ever about

morespsoon
06-12-2011, 10:48 AM
agreed. At the risk of sounding ridiculous, I am going to say that rider and morespoon seem to have forgotten what smashing pumpkins was ever about

Go back and watch Vieuphoria, what did the band say when they were asked about Siamese Dream?

These quotes are off the top of my head, don't go nuts on me:

"It sounds like a big sellout album" - Darcy

"It's very slick" - James Iha

"Butch Vig is a star maker, that's why we got him" - Jimmy Chamberlain

I thought the symbolic meaning of the pigs on the cover of Vieuphoria was obvious, the band was in league with the "pigs" of the industry and when you watch the videos on Vieuphoria it's clear they were trying to go big and "sell out" and become stars, they said it themselves...

I think you're in to revisionist history.

aeroplume
06-12-2011, 11:45 AM
LOL at the Aerosmith conversation.

I write and record my own music, and it makes me happy. I know I'm no B0lly but I dont care. If your band has to HIRE someone to help YOU write a GOOD song, then you have NO BALLS WHATSOEVER. You SUCK and so does your BAND for even allowing it to happen.

Aerosmith suck. They started sucking when they got songwriters. Theyre a bunch of losers because of it. Great musicians, sure, but they have no taste whatsoever.

Rider
06-12-2011, 11:45 AM
agreed. At the risk of sounding ridiculous, I am going to say that rider and morespoon seem to have forgotten what smashing pumpkins was ever about

Really what were the pumpkins about?

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 12:39 PM
I thought the symbolic meaning of the pigs on the cover of Vieuphoria was obvious, the band was in league with the "pigs" of the industry and when you watch the videos on Vieuphoria it's clear they were trying to go big and "sell out" and become stars, they said it themselves...

I think you're in to revisionist history.

Billy has always been straightforward in that his goal for the Pumpkins was to a be a big, largely recognized and influential band. No one is denying this.Yes, Siamese Dream is very hi-fi, but it is still an alternative album written by a guy who achieved what he did through his own talent. The Pumpkins never were and never have been a product of the record industry. Those songs were written by Billy Corgan and to a lesser extent the other members of the band, and never, ever, ever outside songwriters. The strength, power, accessibility, etc. of Siamese Dream is all the result of Billy fucking Corgan being an amazing musician, writing amazing songs, and being backed up by a great band (or drummer at least). No record company dickshit wrote those songs for him. It's totally different.

LOL at the Aerosmith conversation.

I write and record my own music, and it makes me happy. I know I'm no B0lly but I dont care. If your band has to HIRE someone to help YOU write a GOOD song, then you have NO BALLS WHATSOEVER. You SUCK and so does your BAND for even allowing it to happen.

Aerosmith suck. They started sucking when they got songwriters. Theyre a bunch of losers because of it. Great musicians, sure, but they have no taste whatsoever.

This. Aerosmith do not take their music seriously and have made themselves into a bunch of clowns to keep raking in $$$.

Really what were the pumpkins about?

The Pumpkins were, and still are about Billy Corgan doing his own thing. He has had major failures as well as successes, but at least it has all been on his terms. As much as I dislike his new music and his woo woo mystic nonsense, at least this guy fucking has the integrity to just do what he wants and say fuck the haters. I've been pretty critical of his actions the past few years, but I can still respect him in the capacity that he doesn't take anyone's bullshit, he doesn't cater to expectation, and he is not interested in appealing to the lowest common denominator to make bucks. He's clearly still obsessed with making the Pumpkins an influential and popular band again, but he has never compromised the fact that the band belongs to him. If the Pumpkins are ever to become relevant again (which they won't,) it will happen based on Billy Corgan's own strange path and the music that springs from that, whatever direction it goes. I would rather him make shitty teargarden songs from now unto eternity than for him to bring in outside writers to get his music on the radio.

scottytheoneand
06-12-2011, 01:03 PM
Sometimes the ends justify the means...

Bring in outside writers, whatever's necessary to create something good. Why waste your time with garbage?

BTW, if you've watched any behind the scenes footage of Aerosmith recording it's obvious they were writing the songs at least going by the video footage.

are you retarded? who the fuck want's to watch shit like that?

isn't there a forum somewhere else for people who like Dude Looks Like a Lady?

Rider
06-12-2011, 01:14 PM
are you retarded? who the fuck want's to watch shit like that?

isn't there a forum somewhere else for people who like Dude Looks Like a Lady?

There is nothing wrong with the album Pump, it's just hipster trendy to pretend everything Aerosmith did post reunion is horrible. Even the sellout songs are good for the most part, not my cup tea, but there is nothing wrong with them.

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 01:52 PM
I guess if you don't give shit how sincere the music is and the only reason you listen is for surface level enjoyment, then yeah. A song written by a paid record company stooge is not art, it's just a product.

Rider
06-12-2011, 01:57 PM
I guess if you don't give shit how sincere the music is and the only reason you listen is for surface level enjoyment, then yeah. A song written by a paid record company stooge is not art, it's just a product.


If a sound sounds good why would I give a shit how it was produced. That's just idiotic.

And as I said before Pet Sounds was written with the help of an advertising company stooge, don't see anyone bashing that.

hcueva
06-12-2011, 02:33 PM
These are the options -->

a) Two band members team up with outside talent to come up with fresh songs.
b) The lead singer continuously hires female bass players, Asian dudes and a 13 year old drummer to have a cool image -also gets Paris Hilton to do a photo shoot.

Which one's a bigger sell out? There's nothing wrong with bands teaming up with other great musicians to write songs. Air did a full album with that idea in mind (10,000 Hz Legend) and no one calls them sell outs.

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 02:44 PM
If a sound sounds good why would I give a shit how it was produced.

possibly the lamest the thing I have ever read on this board. With that attitude how did you ever enjoy listening to a band like the Pumpkins in the first place


also do not give two shits about the beach boys

slunken
06-12-2011, 03:05 PM
i dunno about some of you guys but when dude looks like a lady or love in an elevator comes on the radio, i'm turning it UP every time.

redbreegull
06-12-2011, 06:18 PM
I'm not arguing that some of Aersomith's later songs aren't "good," or enjoyable, but it loses its meaning when the artist isn't responsible for the art anymore. As a band, Smashing Pumpkins is appealing to a certain type of individual because of the meaning behind the songs. Yes, it is possible to hear Bullet with Butterfly Wings and enjoy rocking out to it, but if this is the extent to which you derive pleasure or fulfillment from a song, you are basically the kind of fan who helped pack arenas for SP in '96 and the Backstreet Boys in '99. Music is more than the literal sounds entering our ears. There are a whole load of abstract ideas, philosophical concepts, and personal expressions behind a good song. SP's music is about being an individual, an outsider, yet still finding your way to success on your own terms. I would say this has been the most prominent theme in Corgan's music throughout his career. For any artist to give up his or her own voice in favor of making music with ensured accessibility is disgraceful, and it would be especially egregious for the Pumpkins in light of their message.

Starla
06-12-2011, 11:15 PM
Billy should cover dream on in an upbeat melody like "perfect" then auto tune it. Maybe cee lo green could sing the chorus. That would be awesome.

morespsoon
06-13-2011, 07:11 AM
I'm not arguing that some of Aersomith's later songs aren't "good," or enjoyable, but it loses its meaning when the artist isn't responsible for the art anymore. As a band, Smashing Pumpkins is appealing to a certain type of individual because of the meaning behind the songs. Yes, it is possible to hear Bullet with Butterfly Wings and enjoy rocking out to it, but if this is the extent to which you derive pleasure or fulfillment from a song, you are basically the kind of fan who helped pack arenas for SP in '96 and the Backstreet Boys in '99. Music is more than the literal sounds entering our ears. There are a whole load of abstract ideas, philosophical concepts, and personal expressions behind a good song. SP's music is about being an individual, an outsider, yet still finding your way to success on your own terms. I would say this has been the most prominent theme in Corgan's music throughout his career. For any artist to give up his or her own voice in favor of making music with ensured accessibility is disgraceful, and it would be especially egregious for the Pumpkins in light of their message.

I recently became an Abba fan. I didn't hop on any bandwagon, I just love their music although I'm pretty sure they didn't write it alone, it's all about the meaning of the lyrics, the beauty of the music, the fun of it all...James Iha said himself that music is about having fun and Abba helps me to enjoy my life. I'm sure almost everyone here will tell me to F off and die for that but...

I like some Britney Spears songs like for the same reason I like Abba...sometimes you've just gotta enjoy life, you know?

And this is coming from somebody who owns and loves their copy of the album "Metal Machine Music", hell, that album gives me the same relaxed feeling as Abba...if it helps me improve my mood and enjoy my life I'll listen to it, period.

You're gonna tell me I should be ashamed of that? Life's too short.

And I'm pretty sure this is the first time Abba and Britney Spears have been lumped together with "Metal Machine Music", it's pretty hysterical. :rofl:

Kahlo
06-13-2011, 08:06 AM
I fucking hate you. Stop posting.

Kahlo
06-13-2011, 08:07 AM
Unless you are like a hot italian girl or something. Then Netphoria allows exceptions.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-13-2011, 08:15 AM
James Iha said music is primarily about having fun and those are very fun albums.
James Iha said himself that music is about having fun and Abba helps me to enjoy my life.
who cares what james iha said? what kind of shit argument is that?

morespsoon
06-13-2011, 08:27 AM
who cares what james iha said? what kind of shit argument is that?

I'm using a logical fallacy and hoping it sticks.

redbreegull
06-13-2011, 12:14 PM
morespoon you have revealed yourself to be mentally incapable in this thread.

scottytheoneand
06-13-2011, 02:25 PM
I'm using a logical fallacy and hoping it sticks.

You are a fucking logical fallacy.

morespsoon
06-13-2011, 07:29 PM
morespoon you have revealed yourself to be mentally incapable in this thread.

You're entitled to your opinion. Thanks for pushing me a little and helping me to understand why I like certain music. :smoke:

redbreegull
06-14-2011, 01:11 AM
I'm glad you have realized your tastes work like that of a 14 year old. Maybe you and Rider can listen to Journey together now

Trotskilicious
06-14-2011, 02:35 AM
I like Robyn and I still think Aerosmith is one of the worst bands of all time.

Music is not about "having fun" it's about expressing emotion. If that emotion is happiness or having fun that's fine. I mean, Japandroids lyrics are borderline idiotic but they are fucking awesome and fun. On the other hand, there's a whole slate of SP songs that are about being sad and not having fun. And they are cathartic. I mean FFS morespoon, seriously. Dumb, dude. Dumb.

Trotskilicious
06-14-2011, 02:39 AM
by the way since i hate aerosmith i hardly ever think of them but LULZ @ TYLER/PERRY

morespsoon
06-15-2011, 06:40 AM
This thread inspired me to listen to "Draw the line" (1977) and I've got to say...

Thank goodness Aerosmith used outside writers because most of that album is on par with Teargarden by Kaleidyscope (hint, hint)... there's potential but most of the songs are a total mess.

Again, sometimes the ends justify the means...why make mediocre/bad music when you could make something great with just a little help?

IMHO, give me something great, life is too short.

scottytheoneand
06-15-2011, 07:01 AM
This thread inspired me to listen to "Draw the line" (1977) and I've got to say...

Thank goodness Aerosmith used outside writers because most of that album is on par with Teargarden by Kaleidyscope (hint, hint)... there's potential but most of the songs are a total mess.

Again, sometimes the ends justify the means...why make mediocre/bad music when you could make something great with just a little help?

IMHO, give me something great, life is too short.

you haven't died yet?

too bad

slunken
06-16-2011, 11:25 AM
let's aim to please the bumblebees

redbreegull
06-16-2011, 07:00 PM
I like Robyn and I still think Aerosmith is one of the worst bands of all time.

Music is not about "having fun" it's about expressing emotion. If that emotion is happiness or having fun that's fine. I mean, Japandroids lyrics are borderline idiotic but they are fucking awesome and fun. On the other hand, there's a whole slate of SP songs that are about being sad and not having fun. And they are cathartic. I mean FFS morespoon, seriously. Dumb, dude. Dumb.

For the most part I agree. Meaningful music can appeal to the body or the "instant gratification" desire we have (i.e. dance music, pop music) but it also has to stimulate the mind to have any staying power. Otherwise you cross the line from art into something which is simply entertainment... a product to be sold.

This thread inspired me to listen to "Draw the line" (1977) and I've got to say...

Thank goodness Aerosmith used outside writers because most of that album is on par with Teargarden by Kaleidyscope (hint, hint)... there's potential but most of the songs are a total mess.

Again, sometimes the ends justify the means...why make mediocre/bad music when you could make something great with just a little help?

IMHO, give me something great, life is too short.

Draw the Line is when they started using outside writers, and it's not even the worst one. You should listen to Rock in a Hard Place. Both Perry and Whitford were out of the band, and it sounds like straight shit. Sheer awfulness, virtually no redeeming qualities despite utilizing record company stooges to write the songs. I don't understand this attitude that it is the pure listen-ability which makes a song good. Who gives a shit if the song has a good hook or a catchy guitar line, it wasn't even written by the artist. If a musician needs to bring in paid writers to make his or her music good, what the fuck is the point of listening to it anymore? There's no honesty there. It doesn't mean anything. SP's music comes from some strange place in b0lly's soul, and I won't pretend to understand it or enjoy the place he is writing from anymore, but god damnit, at least it's honest. There is nothing to respect in an artist who can't write his/her own music anymore. There is so much good music in the world which was NOT written with the help of a big corporation seeking to make money off a product, why continue to listen to someone so irrelevant?

morespsoon
06-17-2011, 06:24 AM
For the most part I agree. Meaningful music can appeal to the body or the "instant gratification" desire we have (i.e. dance music, pop music) but it also has to stimulate the mind to have any staying power. Otherwise you cross the line from art into something which is simply entertainment... a product to be sold.



Draw the Line is when they started using outside writers, and it's not even the worst one. You should listen to Rock in a Hard Place. Both Perry and Whitford were out of the band, and it sounds like straight shit. Sheer awfulness, virtually no redeeming qualities despite utilizing record company stooges to write the songs. I don't understand this attitude that it is the pure listen-ability which makes a song good. Who gives a shit if the song has a good hook or a catchy guitar line, it wasn't even written by the artist. If a musician needs to bring in paid writers to make his or her music good, what the fuck is the point of listening to it anymore? There's no honesty there. It doesn't mean anything. SP's music comes from some strange place in b0lly's soul, and I won't pretend to understand it or enjoy the place he is writing from anymore, but god damnit, at least it's honest. There is nothing to respect in an artist who can't write his/her own music anymore. There is so much good music in the world which was NOT written with the help of a big corporation seeking to make money off a product, why continue to listen to someone so irrelevant?

I think my comparison of Abba and Britney Spears to "Metal Machine Music" was very enlightening for me. "Metal Machine Music" is noise, artistic noise but noise. I was listening to Britney Spears recently I started to realize that most of her songs have the same artistic noise quality as "Metal Machine Music" and maybe that's why I like them. I need a certain type of noise to quiet my mind because I have an overactive mind, that's I why I used to leave the TV when there was nothing but static on and my parents would sometimes take me for a drive when I was a child to get me to go sleep... the sound of the car would relax me and put me to sleep. Is that answer concerning why I would like this type of music enough for you?

When it comes to Abba I don't think they wrote their songs but they sang most of them with so much conviction that it doesn't matter to me...they believed in the lyrics, they believed in the message and they carried it off so well that it's beautiful to listen to their performance of the music, period.

By your logic no one should watch most presidential speeches because the president rarely writes his own speeches. People know the president isn't writing his speeches but that doesn't stop them from watching them and believing in them. Can you explain the difference between that and artists who don't write their own songs?

Where do you stand on covers? The bands didn't write that music, does it matter?

How about when producers shape songs? For example, Billy Corgan said that Flood took the song "By Starlight" and "made it his own." If that meant he rewrote/reworked the song isn't that actually co-writing and does it matter? Would you actually look at "By Starlight" differently if you knew Flood co-wrote the song?

Would you look at the song "Turn my way" differently if it turned that Billy Corgan co-wrote it with New Order? (Although Corgan's not credited as a co-writer I bet he did co-write it) Hypothetically speaking, if that was the case would it matter to you?

RenewRevive
06-17-2011, 09:50 AM
I think my comparison of Abba and Britney Spears to "Metal Machine Music" was very enlightening for me.

when you start enlightening yourself i think maybe you're over-thinking things.

When it comes to Abba I don't think they wrote their songs but they sang most of them with so much conviction that it doesn't matter to me...they believed in the lyrics, they believed in the message and they carried it off so well that it's beautiful to listen to their performance of the music, period.

wrong. they wrote the own songs, although their manager (the so called "fifth member of Abba") wrote some lyrics on their earlier albums. other than that it was all them, which is probably why they perform the songs with such conviction.

Where do you stand on covers? The bands didn't write that music, does it matter?

some covers are okay, but almost invariably inferior to the original, with the occasional exception. i never like them on studio albums.

How about when producers shape songs? For example, Billy Corgan said that Flood took the song "By Starlight" and "made it his own." If that meant he rewrote/reworked the song isn't that actually co-writing and does it matter? Would you actually look at "By Starlight" differently if you knew Flood co-wrote the song?

nah pretty sure he's referring to Flood adding flourishes and studio trickery to the song, not re-writing it.

slunken
06-17-2011, 10:06 AM
collaboration can lead to great work. burroughs called it "the third mind". anything can be done tastefully.

starlightvideoproductions
06-17-2011, 11:21 AM
Bottom line: Even though the new stuff Billy is churning out is not as good at the SP1 material, at least its still real has his vision. We can say its a Billy Corgan / Smashing Pumpkins song. Art is not about making sure the majority of people will like what you do.

scottytheoneand
06-17-2011, 11:29 AM
I think my comparison of Abba and Britney Spears to "Metal Machine Music" was very enlightening for me. "Metal Machine Music" is noise, artistic noise but noise. I was listening to Britney Spears recently I started to realize that most of her songs have the same artistic noise quality as "Metal Machine Music" and maybe that's why I like them. I need a certain type of noise to quiet my mind because I have an overactive mind, that's I why I used to leave the TV when there was nothing but static on and my parents would sometimes take me for a drive when I was a child to get me to go sleep... the sound of the car would relax me and put me to sleep. Is that answer concerning why I would like this type of music enough for you?

When it comes to Abba I don't think they wrote their songs but they sang most of them with so much conviction that it doesn't matter to me...they believed in the lyrics, they believed in the message and they carried it off so well that it's beautiful to listen to their performance of the music, period.

By your logic no one should watch most presidential speeches because the president rarely writes his own speeches. People know the president isn't writing his speeches but that doesn't stop them from watching them and believing in them. Can you explain the difference between that and artists who don't write their own songs?

Where do you stand on covers? The bands didn't write that music, does it matter?

How about when producers shape songs? For example, Billy Corgan said that Flood took the song "By Starlight" and "made it his own." If that meant he rewrote/reworked the song isn't that actually co-writing and does it matter? Would you actually look at "By Starlight" differently if you knew Flood co-wrote the song?

Would you look at the song "Turn my way" differently if it turned that Billy Corgan co-wrote it with New Order? (Although Corgan's not credited as a co-writer I bet he did co-write it) Hypothetically speaking, if that was the case would it matter to you?

you are in the wrong forum. There's a self help forum for schizoids somewhere else. please go there.

please stop breathing.

please expire.

scottytheoneand
06-17-2011, 11:33 AM
Bottom line: Even though the new stuff Billy is churning out is not as good at the SP1 material, at least its still real has his vision. We can say its a Billy Corgan / Smashing Pumpkins song. Art is not about making sure the majority of people will like what you do.

You think Widow Wake My Mind sounds like SP_? He should have just kept calling it Zwan. That would have made more sense.

redbreegull
06-17-2011, 12:40 PM
I think my comparison of Abba and Britney Spears to "Metal Machine Music" was very enlightening for me. "Metal Machine Music" is noise, artistic noise but noise. I was listening to Britney Spears recently I started to realize that most of her songs have the same artistic noise quality as "Metal Machine Music" and maybe that's why I like them. I need a certain type of noise to quiet my mind because I have an overactive mind, that's I why I used to leave the TV when there was nothing but static on and my parents would sometimes take me for a drive when I was a child to get me to go sleep... the sound of the car would relax me and put me to sleep. Is that answer concerning why I would like this type of music enough for you?

When it comes to Abba I don't think they wrote their songs but they sang most of them with so much conviction that it doesn't matter to me...they believed in the lyrics, they believed in the message and they carried it off so well that it's beautiful to listen to their performance of the music, period.

By your logic no one should watch most presidential speeches because the president rarely writes his own speeches. People know the president isn't writing his speeches but that doesn't stop them from watching them and believing in them. Can you explain the difference between that and artists who don't write their own songs?

Where do you stand on covers? The bands didn't write that music, does it matter?

How about when producers shape songs? For example, Billy Corgan said that Flood took the song "By Starlight" and "made it his own." If that meant he rewrote/reworked the song isn't that actually co-writing and does it matter? Would you actually look at "By Starlight" differently if you knew Flood co-wrote the song?

Would you look at the song "Turn my way" differently if it turned that Billy Corgan co-wrote it with New Order? (Although Corgan's not credited as a co-writer I bet he did co-write it) Hypothetically speaking, if that was the case would it matter to you?

I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. All I can say is that politics has virtually nothing to do with artistic emotional expression and that analogy makes no sense. Covers are cool sometimes if the artist can add her or his own flourish to them, but as has been stated are almost universally inferior to the original. Mayonaise is my favorite song but no matter how good a version I do of it, it still didn't come from inside me, and will most likely never live up to the original, because those words came out of b0lly's mind, not my own. As for covers on studio recordings, it depends on the artist.

But interpretation of someone else's work is not really the same thing as having someone else write music to be released under your own moniker. This is just corporate trickery. If Billy Corgan writes a song with Eddie Vedder and they release it on a Pumpkins album, everyone knows hey, that's the song written with the Pearl Jam guy. Two credible (?) songwriters collaborating. When Aerosmith collaborates with Suppa or whoever else and they then release those songs, it's almost like they are pretending they wrote them. Those guys aren't visible except in the liner notes for legal purposes so they can get paid, which is their goal. If you really think Geffen records pays these guys to write heartfelt songs, you are lying to yourself. They are making a product to be sold, period. Otherwise, these songwriters would be in the band.

Again with producers, everyone knows that producers help to shape a song, but that process is different than songwriting. Flood did not sit down with Billy Corgan and have a therapy session about mom and dad, and then use his psychological notes to help write the songs on MCIS.

The real kicker is that a band like Aerosmith actually did write all their own music at one point, and then drugged themselves into such a stupor that they are unable to do so anymore. Either that or they just hate each other so much they need other people to bring the music together to be "listenable" and either way it's seriously lame. By bringing in outside writers, an artist is basically admitting he/she is unable to write good music anymore, and needs help to keep making money.

If you still enjoy this kind of music, that is fine, nothing wrong with it, but don't kid yourself about the motive behind it. You're just paying for Steven Tyler to line his fifth swimming pool with diamonds, or for his divorce settlement.

Trotskilicious
06-17-2011, 05:53 PM
Again, sometimes the ends justify the means...why make mediocre/bad music when you could make something great with just a little help?

but you seem to favor mediocre music as a point of pride

morespsoon
06-18-2011, 06:54 AM
I have no idea what you are talking about anymore. All I can say is that politics has virtually nothing to do with artistic emotional expression and that analogy makes no sense. Covers are cool sometimes if the artist can add her or his own flourish to them, but as has been stated are almost universally inferior to the original. Mayonaise is my favorite song but no matter how good a version I do of it, it still didn't come from inside me, and will most likely never live up to the original, because those words came out of b0lly's mind, not my own. As for covers on studio recordings, it depends on the artist.

But interpretation of someone else's work is not really the same thing as having someone else write music to be released under your own moniker. This is just corporate trickery. If Billy Corgan writes a song with Eddie Vedder and they release it on a Pumpkins album, everyone knows hey, that's the song written with the Pearl Jam guy. Two credible (?) songwriters collaborating. When Aerosmith collaborates with Suppa or whoever else and they then release those songs, it's almost like they are pretending they wrote them. Those guys aren't visible except in the liner notes for legal purposes so they can get paid, which is their goal. If you really think Geffen records pays these guys to write heartfelt songs, you are lying to yourself. They are making a product to be sold, period. Otherwise, these songwriters would be in the band.

Again with producers, everyone knows that producers help to shape a song, but that process is different than songwriting. Flood did not sit down with Billy Corgan and have a therapy session about mom and dad, and then use his psychological notes to help write the songs on MCIS.

The real kicker is that a band like Aerosmith actually did write all their own music at one point, and then drugged themselves into such a stupor that they are unable to do so anymore. Either that or they just hate each other so much they need other people to bring the music together to be "listenable" and either way it's seriously lame. By bringing in outside writers, an artist is basically admitting he/she is unable to write good music anymore, and needs help to keep making money.

If you still enjoy this kind of music, that is fine, nothing wrong with it, but don't kid yourself about the motive behind it. You're just paying for Steven Tyler to line his fifth swimming pool with diamonds, or for his divorce settlement.

I really enjoy reading your posts, thanks for your insight.

morespsoon
02-09-2015, 09:42 PM
I think the original post of this thread is looking better and better as time goes on.

Kahlo
02-11-2015, 03:24 AM
That's because you're fucking mental son.

Trotskilicious
02-11-2015, 03:55 AM
also he likes to fuck teenagers

morespsoon
02-11-2015, 04:10 AM
also he likes to fuck teenagers

I've never done that before and I have no interest in it. Please quote where you got that idea.

morespsoon
02-11-2015, 04:13 AM
That's because you're fucking mental son.

I listened to SP's new album once out of curiosity and I'll never listen to it again.

Meanwhile, a lot of stuff on the albums "Permanent Vacation" through "Music from Another Dimension!" is memorable and I revisit it from time to time.

I think most music fans would agree on that. What's your view of that?

Trotskilicious
02-11-2015, 05:38 AM
I've never done that before and I have no interest in it. Please quote where you got that idea.

it's implied

http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=182249

That's a good percentage of American-made porn and no one seems to have a problem with that. I think you're the one with the unusual view here.

that one is more about your Barely Legal porn collection


First of all you're separating teenagers and adults when in most of the world one legally becomes an adult when they're still a teenager.

Then, you're saying that teenagers and adults shouldn't ever be having sex when that's legal at various ages in almost the entire world.

Then, you're implying that sex between teenagers and adults would have only been appropriate in ancient times when it's legal almost everywhere in the world right now.

Your post is just so out of touch with the reality of the world we live in, I'm stunned.

i'm out of touch because you think it's okay to fuck teenagers because it was okay in 12th century europe

Trotskilicious
02-11-2015, 05:39 AM
I think most music fans would agree on that. What's your view of that?

that the majority of people, like yourself, don't think

morespsoon
02-11-2015, 06:44 AM
it's implied


Please explain how it's "implied"?

Trotskilicious
02-11-2015, 06:45 AM
did you graduate high school?

morespsoon
02-11-2015, 06:49 AM
it's implied
i'm out of touch because you think it's okay to fuck teenagers because it was okay in 12th century europe

According to this chart as I read it, it's legal to have sex with teens in every country in Europe today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent#mediaviewer/File:Age_of_Consent_-_Global.svg

morespsoon
02-11-2015, 06:53 AM
did you graduate high school?

How is it "implied"?

You're trying to separate teens and adults into two categories, you're trying to claim that me saying that legal teen porn EXISTS means that I own some of it, you're trying to say that the legal ages of consent in Europe today apparently don't exist, and with your refusal to answer the question above, it's pure nonsense.

fuzzyroes
02-11-2015, 06:55 AM
Trotskys just trying to belittle you, don't worry about it man.

I think you brought up a good point that proves to be more true as the years go by.

morespsoon
02-11-2015, 07:03 AM
Trotskys just trying to belittle you, don't worry about it man.

I think you brought up a good point that proves to be more true as the years go by.

Thanks for the support.

It's good to have someone play devil's advocate as a matter of fact.

fuzzyroes
02-11-2015, 07:08 AM
It's incredibly difficult to come back 10 years later and expect any sort of relevancy. The popular music landscape changes so rapidly. The fact that Aerosmith did it in such a triumphant way and actually managed to sustain another 10+ years of relevance with the comeback is quite extraordinary... Especially when you consider how almost all of these attempts end in flailing misery...

houseofglass11
02-11-2015, 03:04 PM
It's not really that surprising. They had hit-makers writing songs for them and they changed their sound to overproduced hair-metal to stay relevant. It was also only 7 or 8 years on from their original run. SP hasn't been a major force since 1996 which is nearly 20 years later. Steven Tyler (and Joe Perry) had more charisma than Corgan. They came across as sleazy but likable rock dudes, whereas BC is just some grumpy weird dude.

fuzzyroes
02-12-2015, 04:24 AM
It's the same scenario. Pumpkins came back after 7 years and the landscape was so different and they fell flat on their faces.

Aerosmith had collaborators when they were writing songs to help with the process. They didn't have people handing them songs to play. And let's face it, the way this Howard guys seems to be intervening, he seems like he's pretty much lending a hand in the songwriting process in his own right.

fuzzyroes
02-12-2015, 04:25 AM
Sure, it's not the same... But Aerosmith had some awesome tracks during their comeback.

I actually still like those Alicia Silverstone videos.

fuzzyroes
02-12-2015, 04:26 AM
and Living On The Edge? Fucking sweet track.

bobliefeld
02-12-2015, 06:24 AM
I don't think getting songwriting help is a big deal tbh.

I don't see how it's different to identifying that your drummer or bassist isn't good enough so getting a pro like T LEE in. Or that your piano playing isn't up to scratch and getting Mike Garson in to help. It's just identifying and addressing weakness.

chuckhagel
02-12-2015, 07:16 AM
Pumpkins is the shit man's version of comesbacks

FoolofaTook
02-12-2015, 07:20 AM
teens r hott. stay strong morespoon.

lemmy and I support you! Jailbait!

(actually mature womenz r the best)

FoolofaTook
02-12-2015, 07:21 AM
and respect and aerosmith should never go together in a sentence. matt pike once mocked aerosmith. matt pike slays.

dodoz
02-12-2015, 08:59 AM
Remember how Aerosmith came back with Run DMC ? Who would be the Pumpkins' Run DMC ?

bobliefeld
02-12-2015, 09:58 AM
Well puff daddy is very talented

dodoz
02-12-2015, 10:51 AM
Kanye West is already busy with McCartney and throwing a fit about Beck winning a Grammy.

(Reminder : Back in the day, CÚline Dion won the album of the year Grammy over "Mellon Collie" and Beck...:erm:).

brutechinasky
02-12-2015, 11:39 AM
lil wayne
hopefully he can get a guitar solo as well

slunken
02-12-2015, 11:53 AM
Aerosmith had collaborators when they were writing songs to help with the process. They didn't have people handing them songs to play.

the aerosmith comeback was more important because joe perry was returning. also they never went 7 years with out making an album. also they did have people handing them songs. at first after the reunion it was songwriting help which eventually led to full songs being delivered. don't wanna miss a thing was one such song and look at what that did.

morespsoon
02-12-2015, 12:08 PM
the aerosmith comeback was more important because joe perry was returning. also they never went 7 years with out making an album. also they did have people handing them songs. at first after the reunion it was songwriting help which eventually led to full songs being delivered. don't wanna miss a thing was one such song and look at what that did.

If I was an artist trying to make a living off my work and I had two choices:

1. Create art completely on my own that no one cares about and that will be forgotten almost immediately (SP right now).

2. Create art in any way possible (ETA: Within reason) that will make me rich, make my wildest dreams come true, and make my children and their children rich in the process (Aerosmith's comeback).

I'm choosing #2 every time. But then I'm pretty much a total pragmatist and the idealists on this board would choose #1 above I think. I don't think myself and them live in the same world honestly.

Which would you choose and why, BTW?

morespsoon
02-12-2015, 01:51 PM
lil wayne
hopefully he can get a guitar solo as well

I was just thinking about it. You know what would be hilarious is if the Beastie Boys reformed with Corgan taking MCA's spot.

Just imagine it...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qORYO0atB6g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qORYO0atB6g

^^^

That's sarcasm for the mentally challenged.

Trotskilicious
02-12-2015, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the support.

It's good to have someone play devil's advocate as a matter of fact.

fuzzyroses is a person in his late 20s that has sex with teenagers

Cool As Ice Cream
02-12-2015, 05:13 PM
I listened to SP's new album once out of curiosity and I'll never listen to it again.

Meanwhile, a lot of stuff on the albums "Permanent Vacation" through "Music from Another Dimension!" is memorable and I revisit it from time to time.

I think most music fans would agree on that. What's your view of that?
my view on that is that i don't know anything about aerosmith, besides a song or two. revisting isn't an option. but even "visiting" isn't on my mind, at all.
am i a weird person, not to know anything about aerosmith? should everyone who listens to music at least know their basic discography?

did you think about that option when you created this thread? or did you assume that everyone, or at least everyone who posts on a smashing pumpkins messageboard, has listened to a couple of aerosmith albums, like you? should everyone who listens to music know about aerosmith's discography, as a minimum?

long story short, i don't like your threads (but this is just one example - i don't like any of your other threads either).
it looks like you're overthinking things. and it definitely seems like you're very eager to create new "fresh" threads. brainfart level. catherine wheel. let's try to get things going.
if that is in fact the case, i, for one, don't like that attitude. just stop it, because it's not helping at all. you're overdoing it.

pavementtune
02-12-2015, 05:22 PM
and with that, you go on his ignore list, CAIC. I'm sure that makes you as sad as the rest of us.

Why are you talking to me like I'm your friend?
ETA: I put you on ignore for asking such personal questions when I've never conversed with you before. I think that's totally inappropriate.


How would you feel if a stranger came up to you and started asking personal questions with the tone of a friend?

There's nothing wrong with calling that inappropriate. I have a low tolerance for such things, I tend to put people on ignore quickly. That's my personal preference, there's nothing "sociopathic" about that.


until a few days ago I never noticed ms-poon, but apparently he's been around for 10 years. I would like to ask him under what username, but that would be inappropriate.

anyone know?

Cool As Ice Cream
02-12-2015, 05:35 PM
morespoon has been around as morespoon for years.
as far as i know, he's always been mostly in the background, with a few exceptions where he's trying to "save" netphoria with his "clever" new threads.

i must say though, asking me questions, assuming that i know all about aerosmith, i find that a tad too personal. i think that's totally inappropriate. does he think i am his friend, maybe? i have a low tolerance for such behaviour!

Trotskilicious
02-12-2015, 05:36 PM
he fades in and out like a bad reception

but he's always a deranged rockist

Cool As Ice Cream
02-12-2015, 05:39 PM
^ is that some aerosmith joke?

let's get him, boys!

morespsoon
02-12-2015, 05:55 PM
until a few days ago I never noticed ms-poon, but apparently he's been around for 10 years. I would like to ask him under what username, but that would be inappropriate.

anyone know?

Join Date: 08-21-2005

It's in my profile:

http://forums.netphoria.org/member.php?u=10450

:think:

morespsoon
02-12-2015, 05:59 PM
morespoon has been around as morespoon for years.
as far as i know, he's always been mostly in the background, with a few exceptions where he's trying to "save" netphoria with his "clever" new threads.

i must say though, asking me questions, assuming that i know all about aerosmith, i find that a tad too personal. i think that's totally inappropriate. does he think i am his friend, maybe? i have a low tolerance for such behaviour!

You have a good sense of humor. :D

I'm not trying to save this forum. Thanks for your advice, it's appreciated.

reprise85
02-12-2015, 07:34 PM
hey more spsoon whats yer myspace

morespsoon
02-12-2015, 07:59 PM
This message is hidden because reprise85 is on your ignore list.

Can we get back to the subject of this thread please?

reprise85
02-12-2015, 08:17 PM
awesome

Trotskilicious
02-12-2015, 08:34 PM
i think everyone should try to get on his ignore list