View Full Version : The firing of the SP.COM webmaster


Cool As Ice Cream
02-22-2011, 03:56 AM
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/content/billy-corgan-smashes-perceptions
I had a Web guy for a while, not a very creative person, who ultimately got fired. At one point he wanted a raise, and I said to him, “You haven’t grown the Web site. When I write a song that becomes a hit song, I sell more tickets and more records. It’s a results-oriented business. So if 10,000 people visit the site every day and 6 months later there’s only 9,000 people visiting the site, that’s a real thing. I can’t guess what they’re thinking, I can just see the numbers.” He said, “Well, if you would visit the site more often or post something, then our numbers would go way up.” I replied, “Yeah, but there’s a reason they don’t put somebody on TV 24 hours a day. It’s the Scarcity Principle.”
oh wow

Cool As Ice Cream
02-22-2011, 04:07 AM
full interview:
The S+V Interview: Billy Corgan
For the Smashing Pumpkins frontman, quality is job one.

By Mike Mettler
February 2011


Some things you know right away in your rock & roll bones. When I first met Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins in 1991, we bonded over the contents of a suitcase he carried with him wherever he went: an ever-growing mountain of live Jimi Hendrix cassettes (some authorized, some not). As the Pumpkins’ trippily punishing debut album, Gish, had just begun melting the ears of the alt-rock cognoscenti, Corgan was already cocksure of where he was going in the world. And I had firsthand confirmation of his talent in action, having seen the band blow away the sweat-drenched horde that had crammed into Maxwell’s in Hoboken, New Jersey that August.

“Smashing Pumpkins were meant to be an ambitious project, and I want our recordings to be perfect,” he told me a few weeks later as we sat surrounded by Hendrix tapes strewn on the floor of a swanky hotel room overlooking Central Park. Two years on, the Pumpkins were riding high with Siamese Dream, and Corgan was looking toward the future when he revealed to me, “Playing loud and aggressive is easy; playing intimate and with feeling is hard.”

The band continued to soar throughout the ’90s but retreated for most of the ’00s. Now back on point and in fine form, Corgan, 43, and a revamped Pumpkins lineup are tackling the new-century music-biz paradigm head-on in different ways. Teargarden by Kaleidyscope is a 44-song project in which its tracks get released individually and for free on the band’s Web site, smashingpumpkins.com, whenever Corgan feels they’re ready. The songs are collected four at a time for limited-edition physical CD release and are coupled in EP packages with vinyl and other collectibles. (Two Teargarden EPs have been issued to date.) It’s no accident Corgan named one of his albums Zeitgeist.


What do you make of the music industry today as you try to navigate your way through essentially uncharted territory?
It’s wild. It’s the Wild West. If you look for the last real Wild West period of music, it was probably the changeover from singles to LPs when the Beatles were the focus. So as a business, we haven’t been in this position for almost 50 years. Everything has just melted.

Where would you pinpoint the current shift getting under way? The turn of the century?
I first thought of it in the late 1990s, but I didn’t know what it meant. It was a cyclical downturn, the looking in at the lens. I’m sort of a music historian, so when the boy bands came in hard , I thought, “It’s the Jackson 5 and the Osmonds again. It’ll last 2 or 3 years, burn itself through, and then go away.”

But if you had certain social qualifications and could become a reality TV star, then your musicianship became part of a bigger story. You saw a massive shift at the end of the ’90s in terms of how information was being shared, and it changed the way stars were evaluated. Once you go down that rabbit hole, you’re not coming back out. You’re not going to have James Taylor there in a blue jean jacket just playing guitar. Those days are over. There’s got to be something else; either you’ve got to have a problem or a hot girlfriend.

And that changed the emphasis focus. I’d been complaining to someone about something of mine that hadn’t been appreciated, and they said, “Hey, you’re supposed to be good. You being good is not noteworthy. We’re only going to notice if there’s something else. Whatever your horizon point is, if you’re above it, then maybe we’ll pay attention.”

[B]As an artist still interested in creating and distributing new music, what do you do in this era? What do your goals become? Do you build your own world?
You build your own world with your own rules. And people will visit it, believe me.

How do I ascertain success in the modern era? I just feel it. I have to feel it. There’s more positive energy around Smashing Pumpkins now than there’s been probably since the mid-’90s. I can just feel the way people are interrelating with me.

When people focus on personal, TMZ kind of stuff and not the music or the art, does that bother you?
What’s difficult is that I grew up in a value-based culture. It was about how you played guitar, what effects you used, your hair, your clothes. But now, how do you determine what something is worth? On MySpace, one band can have a million friends but can’t sell 5,000 records. Then you have another band that has 100,000 friends, and it sells 60,000 records. So whose friends are better friends?

When we were on MySpace, we found a 100:1 ratio of friends to albums sold. 100:1! If you’re a reasonable person, you step back and say, “What is it to those other 99 people that we’re not doing right? What are we doing wrong?” I would ask fans, “Did you buy the new album?” They’d say, “No.” “Why?” “I don’t know, I heard it wasn’t any good.” And then I’d ask, “How did you know it was out?” “Oh, I knew it was out right away because you guys sent me an e-mail blast.” But the next person says, “Oh, I didn’t even know it was out.” And then the next person goes, “Yeah, I was interested in buying it, but you kept sending me e-mail blasts and it pissed me off. I got turned off.” So it’s hard to put stock into just one thing.

I had a Web guy for a while, not a very creative person, who ultimately got fired. At one point he wanted a raise, and I said to him, “You haven’t grown the Web site. When I write a song that becomes a hit song, I sell more tickets and more records. It’s a results-oriented business. So if 10,000 people visit the site every day and 6 months later there’s only 9,000 people visiting the site, that’s a real thing. I can’t guess what they’re thinking, I can just see the numbers.” He said, “Well, if you would visit the site more often or post something, then our numbers would go way up.” I replied, “Yeah, but there’s a reason they don’t put somebody on TV 24 hours a day. It’s the Scarcity Principle.”

You and I are both working with a quality business model. We say, “If you want it cheap and you want it trashy, go somewhere else. Here, we use better hot dogs — and our French fries take longer to make, but they’re worth the wait.” It’s a quality issue.

So let’s say you have an article series about subwoofers, and your readership goes up and Web hits go up. The smart guy will say, “Well, let’s do more of that.” But you’re not going to give the whole magazine over to that topic. You’ve got to pick your spots.

True. You need variety to keep people coming back for something new and something different, not just rehashes of what you’ve done before.
I was talking with someone the other day about my song selection in terms of what I record and what I release. I said, “Look, I don’t think every song I write is an A-level song. I’m not delusional. But sometimes I need to do the okay song to get to the great song.” It’s important for me to document the okay song because it’s significant to me in my own personal cosmology. And don’t think for a second that I’m not the best evaluator of my ability and my skill set.

You’re your own best editor.
I have to be. If I’m putting out something, it’s a decision I’ve made, and sometimes it doesn’t have anything to do with musical quality. It has to do with personal satisfaction. I’ve earned the right to f---ing suck. [laughs] I learned that from people like Lou Reed and Neil Young, who both decided, “You know what? This year I’m just going to be me, and I don’t give a f--- what you think.”

When people look at that release in a linear timeline, they say, “Oh, that’s the album that wasn’t very good.” But they don’t understand that 4 years later, when the artist makes the “comeback” album, it’s because they made that other album 4 years ago. They don’t understand that for an artist, work is cyclical. Periods revolve around each other. When Neil Young had the acoustic comeback album Harvest Moon [in 1992], it was a return to the Harvest feel, even down to the title. But if he had been doing only Harvest music for 20 straight years, he wouldn’t have been able to revisit it as an older guy with that additional viewpoint. That’s what people don’t understand.

I often use the analogy of a sine wave. To get to the top of the wave, you have to come from the bottom. And that’s the only way you can get there; you have to go through the entire cycle.
Right. And you gotta be okay with doing it that way. The core essence of spirituality is, when you face your greatest fear, you find your greatest inner light. The difference with me as an artist now is that I finally got okay with that. When I became really successful in the ’90s, suddenly my family was interested in me, and it made me bitter. Because I was like, “Now you give a f---? Why weren’t you interested in me when I had my middle-school graduation?” I had similar feelings with the public: “Oh, you only like me when I’m perfect. You only like me when I write the ‘great’ song.” And then I’d think, “What, am I not worthy of your attention?” I finally got to the point of saying, “You know what, life’s busy. People have a lot going on, so just be okay with that. Appreciate who comes when they come, and do not be dependent on why they come.” If there’s 1,500 people in front of me, I’m going to appreciate that. I’m not going to get hung up on the idea that they’re only here because they like one song. I’m just gonna go with it.

You also have to manage the expectations of fans at different levels of involvement with your work and your career.
There’s an inverse concept in all spirituality: The peak is the least amount of people who see the whole thing, and the bottom people are only focused on what they’re focused on. So I started to empathize with the mom who has two kids and owns Siamese Dream, and how she’s not going to know the new songs or know they’re out there for free. You have to be empathetic with that and, in a respectful, authentic way, try to communicate with her to get her back to a place where she’s aware of, understands, and processes what you’re doing without judging her. Judging is out. There’s just too much information.

Sometimes it’s the very passion of the person who presents the “argument” to the fans that infects them and gets them re-interested. That’s part of your role, too.
Yes. In our case, in terms of the quality business model, there may only be 60 people in this room, but 58 give a f---. And you have to be okay with that.

And you have to stick to your guns and play what you want to play, not just the “expected,” mass-appeal material.
If you always play to the mainstream, you don’t build anything. That’s being servile to the pop game. And you’ve never had more separation between pop and integrity-based music than now. Take the Flaming Lips. They’ve built a fantastic world based strictly on Wayne [Coyne] and the band’s vision. They have an integrity-based business. Will what they do ever be humongous? No. Has Wayne gotten more out of it in the long term than he probably ever hoped for? Yes, because it’s a quality-based band.

As for me, I’m in a weird place. I don’t have the Pitchfork-world support, but I can oscillate between integrity and pop. I’ve been able to occasionally write pop songs.

There’s a certain integrity to the pop that you write. It’s not strictly formulaic.
Oh, yeah. I think I’m in the lineage of the Who, the Beatles, and the Led Zeppelins of the world who are able to be really good musicians, write really interesting music, be musically progressive, and occasionally come up with the songs that the mainstream will want to hear. I don’t see how that’s inconsistent with my business model. Is that crazy? Hey, “crazy” works for me. [laughs]

Crazy good, though.
Right. But where things get kinda funky is this: One person’s negative is another person’s long-term positive. What’s that mean? We’re at the point where I say to my management, “All we have to do is be good in what we do. The rest will take care of itself. Because at the end of the day, I’m either gonna write that great song, or I’m not. We’re either gonna have a great show tonight, or we’re not. Either we’re gonna be better than other people, or we’re not.” Beyond that, all you can do is just do that thing you do. And the public will let us know whether it’s working or not working.

Spira|_
02-22-2011, 04:12 AM
Cool.very.cool

Cool As Ice Cream
02-22-2011, 04:27 AM
so billy fired the guy (and i assume the rest of the web people too) because less people were visiting the website.

does he not understand that you can't expect thousands of people to visit the site regularly if nothing happens? no new music, no tours (it's been three years since they came to europe - i think this is a record for b0lly), no real news. surely he must have seen how more people would check the site if there was a new release, or if they went on tour somewhere.

now i realise why the old website was so full of created content. remember those people who wrote articles for sp.com? it was usually almost nothing, blown up to a three page article. they were desperate. they needed to make some content themselves, because nothing else was happening.
ha. even now they're creating news without actually having any. "big announcement coming in two years!" ooh! can't wait.

i'm not sure what to think of this. is this extremely funny, or just very sad?

sniffingchimp
02-22-2011, 04:35 AM
It's passing the blame - without actual content or news, tour updates etc then what's the point in visiting?

Although I still visit this site so I dont know.

Basically what Ice Cream said.

Luke de Spa
02-22-2011, 05:09 AM
i think we can safely assume that bill knows all about google analytics and closely monitored the site's pagerank, funnel conversions and bounce rates over time, and hence made a reasonable decision regarding his former employee

Kahlo
02-22-2011, 05:13 AM
He worked his ass off on that site, and got nothing but shit.

Cool As Ice Cream
02-22-2011, 05:45 AM
i think billy came up with all the whacky ideas for the website. he had every right to realise they're shit and that it's better to stop using the website the way they were. but to blame it on the webmaster? that doesn't seem fair.

Luke de Spa
02-22-2011, 05:48 AM
no dude it’s the Scarcity Principle

Morlock
02-22-2011, 05:49 AM
If Billy started making engaging music again, he wouldn't have to worry much about all this "reaching out thru the web" crap. There are so many channels that, if your name is big and your music good enough, it doesn't matter how you put it out. Attention and adoration will just spread.

Take Radiohead for example: how could they release an album in a wrong way? I honestly can't think of a realistic way to screw up a Radiohead release, and while opinions on the band differ, you have to admit that Radiohead worked hard on their music to achieve that.

The Pumpkins label is still good enough for good music to get attention no matter how it's put out. Billy should stop thinking about this media perception bullshit and put more effort into his actual craft. Fucking idiot.

Kahlo
02-22-2011, 06:56 AM
I had a Web guy for a while, not a very creative person, who ultimately got fired. At one point he wanted a raise, and I said to him, “You haven’t grown the Web site.This is funny in two regards. The first being that he is an artist and designer who has worked on the artwork for countless bands, including t-shirts, cd covers - the works, not to mention the fact he does web design for other bands etc. If there is one thing that he is, its creative.

Secondly, he tried to make the site as inclusive as possible with user blogs and accounts which encouraged a community to grow. The first SP site also reached out to fans and also had the SP Media Militia articles, which although not fantastic, was still a good attempt to tell the story of the band/give people insights.

Billy naturally got rid of all this when people started to say mean things about him, like he always does, and turned the site into the geocities 1996 shitfest it is just now.

As someone already pointed out - the site was only getting so many hits because SP in 2007 just wasn't as big as Corgan had hoped. No website could encourage people to engage when the music wasn't there to hold their interest.

RenewRevive
02-22-2011, 07:56 AM
i very rarely visited the site to be honest, although i was registered at some point. if kahlo says the guy worked hard, whatever, then i believe him. it wouldn't have killed corgan to post on the site occasionally, release an exclusive demo or even something from the "archives" to create some interest. the webmaster was an easy target. bad move asking for a raise it seems!

that s+v interviewer was throwing billy some nice softballs for him to hit out of the park. okay, he likes/admires him but where's the journalistic neutrality? he even brought up the old tired chestnut of "yeah dude, why can't they (the fans) get that you can't just go out there and play the hits, y'know?" which in billy's mentality means performing a load of over-played singles and punishing the real fans with 15 minute reworkings of heavy metal machine. will this guy never understand this?

Trotskilicious
02-22-2011, 08:09 AM
i think we can safely assume that bill knows all about google analytics and closely monitored the site's pagerank, funnel conversions and bounce rates over time, and hence made a reasonable decision regarding his former employee

hahahahahaha

Caine Walker
02-22-2011, 10:55 AM
will this guy never understand this?

what if, one day, he woke up and just started being awesome again? energized songs, brutal from beginning to end. pretty songs that didn't have a single fucking la la sha da da la la la in it. playing deep cuts from mellon collie or adore. working with a drummer than has had his pubes for longer than five years.

i've given up hope, but it's fun to dream.

emotionalfriend
02-22-2011, 11:02 AM
what if, one day, he woke up and just started being awesome again? energized songs, brutal from beginning to end. pretty songs that didn't have a single fucking la la sha da da la la la in it. playing deep cuts from mellon collie or adore. working with a drummer than has had his pubes for longer than five years.

i've given up hope, but it's fun to dream.

It is possible. Mille Petrozza did this with Kreator after a decade-long lull with experimentation that ultimately pissed off all of their fans. The last three Kreator albums have been fantastic since he returned to what he knows best.

The main difference is Mille is a rational person that doesn't really care about how popular his band is.

Trotskilicious
02-22-2011, 11:05 AM
the new radiohead album makes me remember how disappointed I am in billy corgan

hnibos
02-22-2011, 11:08 AM
you're just stuck in the past

Order 66
02-22-2011, 11:12 AM
i dunno... i remember the site being pretty shite (esp the board). but then again billy could've dropped in every now and then. i'm all for the scarcity principle but the idea there is to be scarce, not non existent.

scottytheoneand
02-22-2011, 11:38 AM
Every time I get the thought in my head that I can't really guess the motivations and thoughts of someone I don't even know personally, like a celebrity or a stranger on the other side of the world, I check out this board.

That's when I'm reminded that some SP fans must be omniscient. Cause they know everything. Like what goes on between poeple they don't ever talk to. And what people like Corgan think in their minds, but don't tell anybody.

It's like going to a Teahadist Republican rally, and everybody knows that Obama's birth certificate is a fake. They just know...cause they're so smart.

Eulogy
02-22-2011, 11:41 AM
i think one of the things that bill doesn't get enough shit for is his constant need to put himself out there as some intellectual/cultural heavyweight/prophet/seer-of-all-things when he's really just a burned-out idiot who can't make good music anymore.

Ball Sack Face
02-22-2011, 11:45 AM
Nothing Billy Corgan does surprises me anymore.

Kahlo
02-22-2011, 11:45 AM
Every time I get the thought in my head that I can't really guess the motivations and thoughts of someone I don't even know personally, like a celebrity or a stranger on the other side of the world, I check out this board.

Fucking hell, do you work for Billy? Looking through your past posts reads like a master class for apologists and sycophants everywhere.

Or perhaps you are giving a balanced opinion, and everyone in here is wrong.

Ball Sack Face
02-22-2011, 11:45 AM
Well, if he wrote two listenable songs in a row, that would surprise me. I take back my original statement.

vbshlofbvgos
02-22-2011, 12:13 PM
i bet it just really makes his day when he gets to fire somebody

scottytheoneand
02-22-2011, 12:15 PM
Fucking hell, do you work for Billy? Looking through your past posts reads like a master class for apologists and sycophants everywhere.

I'm just a fan who's been listening to SP for 20 years, but never paid much attention in the past to these boards.

Unlike some people I never blamed Billy for war, famine, VD or the failure of the peace process in Israel. I don't think Billy shot JFK either.


Or perhaps you are giving a balanced opinion, and everyone in here is wrong.

yeah, probably that.

Trotskilicious
02-22-2011, 12:16 PM
billy may not have shot JFK but he shot Lincoln.

soniclovenoize
02-22-2011, 12:21 PM
If you always play to the mainstream, you don’t build anything. That’s being servile to the pop game. And you’ve never had more separation between pop and integrity-based music than now. Take the Flaming Lips. They’ve built a fantastic world based strictly on Wayne [Coyne] and the band’s vision. They have an integrity-based business. Will what they do ever be humongous? No. Has Wayne gotten more out of it in the long term than he probably ever hoped for? Yes, because it’s a quality-based band.
I got a boner. http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/icons/icon14.gif

Spira|_
02-22-2011, 01:55 PM
billy is intelligent.

and fuck radiohead posts btw.

Trotskilicious
02-22-2011, 02:20 PM
i know it sucks when you're a crappy, clingy sp fan to know that there's a contemporary of SP that still has all their members and still makes music that pleases fans and critics alike.

sorry to bring up radiohead
or pearl jam
or nine inch nails
...or superchunk, shit.

Astur
02-22-2011, 02:52 PM
it would be difficult for nine inch nails to lose its member

Trotskilicious
02-22-2011, 03:07 PM
yeah that's true but he's still successful that's for sure.

JokeyLoki
02-22-2011, 03:47 PM
Someone submit that shit to http://www.clientsfromhell.net/

scottytheoneand
02-22-2011, 04:53 PM
i know it sucks when you're a crappy, clingy sp fan to know that there's a contemporary of SP that still has all their members and still makes music that pleases fans and critics alike.

sorry to bring up radiohead
or pearl jam
or nine inch nails
...or superchunk, shit.

You forgot Dinosaur Jr.

Trotskilicious
02-22-2011, 07:36 PM
heh yeah so i did

there's probably more anyway

Trotskilicious
02-22-2011, 07:39 PM
i'd say the Pixies but i think that's what we call a working relationship for touring purposes. doesn't seem like they're rushing to make new material but that still works because it's all four of them and god damn billy never threw a guitar at james on stage if kim and frank can get along this long billy needs to man the fuck up

Trotskilicious
02-22-2011, 07:39 PM
get darcy treatment and have a real reunion show man!! it's not like it's never happened before!!

redbreegull
02-22-2011, 07:51 PM
Billy is not very intelligent, he has a high school level education and acts like it

Trotskilicious
02-22-2011, 07:53 PM
so frank black is smarter because he dropped out of u-mass?

other than radiohead, are any of these guys highly educated?

SPLATTER
02-22-2011, 10:03 PM
here's to another 15 years of billy saying wants to be like neil young?

SPLATTER
02-22-2011, 10:07 PM
you should have turned my site into twitter. you're fired.

stumpycat
02-22-2011, 10:30 PM
Billy is not very intelligent, he has a high school level education and acts like it
Do you really think you have to be all that intelligent to attend college? Plenty of successful people who were self-starters and excelled in a particular trade or talent (whether it be entrepreneurship, art, music, mechanics, IT, etc.) have proven to have plenty of aptitude. College is also where people end up who really don't know what the fuck they want to do and/or whose parents have particular expectations of them regardless of their interests or abilities. I can tell you from experience there were a bunch of thick shits who ended up in the college I attended who were probably only there because their sizable trust fund could provide for it. I've also known a good few people who were really fucking bright, who could really figure pretty much anything out, and who couldn't stand to complete than maybe a couple of semesters of college without dropping again. College attendance isn't about intelligence necessarily. (If anything, too many people are attending.)

I STILL think that Billy is highly intelligent. The problem is that intelligence isn't necessarily coupled with emotional intelligence or practical reasoning. This guy thinks he's got the whole damned game figured out from a theoretical standpoint, and yet he seems to have some psychological barrier up which prevents him from assimilating the reality of what's right in front of his fucking face. He seems unable to reconcile the two...and I can only guess it's because of the defensive coping he's always engaging in. He places blame on absolutely everything except himself when things aren't turning out just as he thinks they should. And now he's blaming the webmaster. :rolleyes: It's clouding his brain and deluding his thoughts big time. Billy has to live in his own version of "truthiness" if you will.

ilikeplanets
02-22-2011, 10:31 PM
“Hey, you’re supposed to be good. You being good is not noteworthy. We’re only going to notice if there’s something else. Whatever your horizon point is, if you’re above it, then maybe we’ll pay attention.”

I imagine comments like these fuel Billy's friendships. It's amazing that man isn't totally alone. When he grows bored of this cult, idk where he'll have left to turn. Probably young hopefuls like Mike Byrne.

TheEdgeboy
02-22-2011, 10:40 PM
Yes. Billy's intelligent. But it wasn't smart to throw the webmaster under the bus and say he's not creative. It displays an inability to savvy PR, not to mention the maturity level of a man in his mid-40's. If not for the creative crack at the webby dude, what he said and has done is fine. A mistake that could be overlooked if it wasn't so revealing to what many have said about Billy around these parts; petty, immature, blames others, doesn't "get it", etc. etc.

Banana
02-22-2011, 10:42 PM
del

redbull
02-23-2011, 01:55 AM
the jackals lick their balls

iPumpkin
02-23-2011, 02:26 AM
I can't think of anything Bill has said in the last few years where I have been like, yeah, I get it. Rock on man.

fluxequalsrad
02-23-2011, 03:26 AM
K i just visited the new site and heard the studio version of "The Fellowship" for the first time... my. good. god. Cannot unhear the horribleness .

New Art Rioter
02-23-2011, 04:37 AM
Suppose it's been a few months since Billy slagged off publically someone he used to work with, we were probably due it

Website at the moment looks like it should be on Geocities. I'd like to know the visitor numbers now, even WITH the free tunes

Cool As Ice Cream
02-23-2011, 04:40 AM
the jackals lick their balls

CHICKEN IN MY HEART!

Kahlo
02-23-2011, 07:07 AM
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1774/lolig3.jpg

duovamp
02-23-2011, 07:35 AM
1. That website looked pretty shitty and people bitched about it here a ton
2. Bill's right, which also helps make the SP webpage less of a Billy Corgan blog (bonus)
3. That website looked pretty shitty

Cool As Ice Cream
02-23-2011, 07:40 AM
http://i.imgur.com/EQ7Zz.jpg

duovamp
02-23-2011, 07:45 AM
So glad this happened tbh.

Mo
02-23-2011, 07:48 AM
http://i.imgur.com/EQ7Zz.jpg

:rofl:

Kahlo
02-23-2011, 08:05 AM
http://i.imgur.com/EQ7Zz.jpg

Great work Bram.

Trotskilicious
02-23-2011, 08:18 AM
1. That website looked pretty shitty and people bitched about it here a ton
2. Bill's right, which also helps make the SP webpage less of a Billy Corgan blog (bonus)
3. That website looked pretty shitty

Don't blame the guy who designs it.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell

RenewRevive
02-23-2011, 08:22 AM
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1774/lolig3.jpg

awesome!

duovamp
02-23-2011, 08:25 AM
Don't blame the guy who designs it.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell

It's easier though.

scottytheoneand
02-23-2011, 08:26 AM
i'd say the Pixies but i think that's what we call a working relationship for touring purposes. doesn't seem like they're rushing to make new material but that still works because it's all four of them and god damn billy never threw a guitar at james on stage if kim and frank can get along this long billy needs to man the fuck up

Pixies = Pavement = Oldies Act

scottytheoneand
02-23-2011, 08:32 AM
none of us has any idea what the business relationship was like between Billy and the folks managing his web site. For all we know the web guy/team/whatever made claims, promises, etc. regarding what the site would do, look like, etc.

Even if the relationship was relatively informal. Like, "Hey Bill pay me and I'll build an awesome web site for you and the band.." Billy was probably right in dropping the guy. If the relationship was more formal, it's a pure business decision.

either way, it's a POS website. setting aside the athetics of the artwork for TBK, there's nothing innovative or even interesting in the look, feel, etc. of that site. It just plain sucks.

What SP needs (as a brand, business, band, etc.) is an internet "hub". If the band is really going to self distribute in any real way that web site isn't doing the job.

If I was Billy I'd fire the guy too. And I wouldn't spare his feelings. After all, SP fans aren't any more forgiving when it comes to The Master himself.

Kahlo
02-23-2011, 09:00 AM
Hey, I hatted with the guy in question at the time and he talked about how obstinate Corgan was, and how he was generally dismissive of the site. I also think the look of the site was largely restricted by the piss poor Zeitgeist artwork, which made it eye rapingly awful to look at.

Are there any sites which show stats for sp.com over the last few years?

Eulogy
02-23-2011, 09:26 AM
I STILL think that Billy is highly intelligent. The problem is that intelligence isn't necessarily coupled with emotional intelligence or practical reasoning. This guy thinks he's got the whole damned game figured out from a theoretical standpoint, and yet he seems to have some psychological barrier up which prevents him from assimilating the reality of what's right in front of his fucking face. He seems unable to reconcile the two...and I can only guess it's because of the defensive coping he's always engaging in. He places blame on absolutely everything except himself when things aren't turning out just as he thinks they should. And now he's blaming the webmaster. :rolleyes: It's clouding his brain and deluding his thoughts big time. Billy has to live in his own version of "truthiness" if you will.

So he's intelligent except in all of the ways that he's a complete dumbass.

I mean I guess musical talent is a component of intelligence but that's really all he has to work with, as far as I can tell. And he's not utilizing it very well anymore.

He seems like the kind of person who makes all these grand pronouncements that are either blatantly obvious to everyone or that have no basis in reality and are just pulled from his ass.

Not to mention his batshit conspiracy theories. He just does not seem very bright.

Trotskilicious
02-23-2011, 10:01 AM
Pixies = Pavement = Oldies Act

If you think the Smashing Pumpkins aren't an "oldies act" then you are a lot stupider than your posts have shown so far.

Trotskilicious
02-23-2011, 10:04 AM
look it's billy corgan!
<img src="http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/design_hell/4.png">

stripes
02-23-2011, 10:44 AM
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/1774/lolig3.jpg

:rofl:

scottytheoneand
02-23-2011, 11:34 AM
If you think the Smashing Pumpkins aren't an "oldies act" then you are a lot stupider than your posts have shown so far.

Stupider? yeah, ok. Whatever you say. ;)

Trotskilicious
02-23-2011, 11:37 AM
Haha, that is what a total dipshit would say.

Trotskilicious
02-23-2011, 12:55 PM
i know it sucks when you're a crappy, clingy sp fan to know that there's a contemporary of SP that still has all their members and still makes music that pleases fans and critics alike.

sorry to bring up radiohead
or pearl jam
or nine inch nails
...or superchunk, shit.

even green day makes billy look retarded.

fluxequalsrad
02-23-2011, 01:06 PM
Pixies = Pavement = Oldies Act

Frank Black + Malkmus's solo efforts = miles above anything Bollz has put out in the last 10 years.

Trotskilicious
02-23-2011, 01:16 PM
yeah but they were never <i>famous</i>. *SIGH*

Kahlo
02-23-2011, 03:20 PM
This really made me laugh. It's a new t-shirt design by the former SP.com webmaster...

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/174363_503432193_5654482_n.jpg

fluxequalsrad
02-23-2011, 03:20 PM
"not a very creative person", what a smug prick. LOL @ webmaster shirt.

JokeyLoki
02-23-2011, 03:22 PM
This really made me laugh. It's a new t-shirt design by the former SP.com webmaster...

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/174363_503432193_5654482_n.jpg

LOL. That's excellent.

Kahlo
02-23-2011, 04:10 PM
So it turns out that he was never fired at all - exactly the same as Jimmy. Corgan made this up.

From the o-board

" Basically, PMM (Paul) stated this is the first time he heard he was "fired." His contract ended and both parties were interested in parting ways so they did. Billy asked for this and that, wanted to change things, somehow make money off the website to pay for PMM's salary, but all ideas PMM presented didn't take off and he couldn't do much because he needed content with which to run certain ideas.

Also, Billy once played "G.L.O.W." acoustic for Paul at his house and said something creepy when he was leaving about being such an evil genius ... something along the lines of "I really am something great, aren't I" but with that Mr. Burns look on his face with his hands steepled."

From Paul himself:

"Thanks for the support people, it's been a rough day and in the end, I hope none of you ever have 3 years of your life summed up in 2 very trite and self-serving sentences by the very person you worked day in and out to please. It's also humorous that the only reason you ever had and still have this place to even make a judgment call is because of yours truly. [Billy constantly tried to shut down the board, but PMM argued otherwise]

Keep fighting the good fight, I know I am, and loving it every day! "

Trotskilicious
02-23-2011, 04:13 PM
haha PMM should come over here after getting publically smeared by the guy. I remembered how we hated how negative we all were but HOLY SHIT WHO WAS RIGHT BRO

samuel redman
02-23-2011, 04:20 PM
i actually had a good post but it slipped my mind

Kahlo
02-23-2011, 04:20 PM
Seriously, how man rockstars attack their former webmasters??? I mean COME ON

Kahlo
02-23-2011, 04:21 PM
COME ON COME ON COME ON (CAN YOU FEEL IT?)

Kahlo
02-23-2011, 04:27 PM
WWRD?

What would Radiohead do guys???

Trotskilicious
02-23-2011, 04:35 PM
i'm usually amazed at how consistently billy corgan can surprise me with what an absolute bastard he is

Trotskilicious
02-23-2011, 04:35 PM
WWRD?

What would Radiohead do guys???

be popular and loved

Astur
02-23-2011, 04:54 PM
i'm usually amazed at how consistently billy corgan can surprise me with what an absolute bastard he is

lol yeah at least you gotta give him credit for that one. he's a skilled entrepreneur of asshattery

ilikeplanets
02-23-2011, 05:14 PM
I got the inside scoop on this one :) PMM will get over it.

slunken
02-23-2011, 10:47 PM
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb14/slunken_2007/SP%20LOL/billy289.jpg

Starla
02-24-2011, 01:45 AM
It's just like you Billy to blame your inadequacies on this poor webmaster guy. People don't go to your site because your music sucks. Ever think about that? You're still living in the past because people don't care about websites anymore. I just went and looked at it after not having seen it in months and now it really resembles what you are now, low quality. You're like these rich elite assholes who thinks they can order other people around and you think others are beneath you. I bet you treat waiters like shit in restaurants too. I really miss down to earth billy. What the fuck happen to you?

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 01:48 AM
I dunno, he needs to get back to that place. He's got no fire or hunger. I'm sure all this bravado is to cover up what all of us can recognize, that his career should PROBABLY be around where his peers are at right now and not with the used refuse bin with the Toadies and Garbage.

Starla
02-24-2011, 01:49 AM
Seriously, how man rockstars attack their former webmasters??? I mean COME ON

He's turned into such a piece of shit, I can barely listen to Adore anymore. Adore is about the only last bit of old SP I hold on to. Fuck him and his bullshit forever now.

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 01:50 AM
of course billy doesn't play every place in texas that can be called a city so he's not quite toadies level haha well

garbage and everclear

Starla
02-24-2011, 01:51 AM
The only thing I'm looking fwd this spring is new meat puppets. At least these guys don't act like assholes at every turn.

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 01:51 AM
there's a lot more shit out there but fuck it i don't give a shit if you listen to it or not

Astur
02-24-2011, 05:30 AM
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb14/slunken_2007/SP%20LOL/billy289.jpg

he kinda reminds me of kiddy kong from DKC3

Eulogy
02-24-2011, 07:03 AM
I dunno, he needs to get back to that place. He's got no fire or hunger. I'm sure all this bravado is to cover up what all of us can recognize, that his career should PROBABLY be around where his peers are at right now and not with the used refuse bin with the Toadies and Garbage.

aw that's not fair

Garbage was never really a "band" in the truest sense in the first place, I don't think. A group of producers with a hot singer who somehow clicked for a while. You don't see them desperately struggling to maintain their fan base or throwing hissy fits about people not liking them.

Luke de Spa
02-24-2011, 07:16 AM
You don't see them ... throwing hissy fits about people not liking them.
to be fair almost nobody does this. bill is an outlier on the histrionics box and whisker

croPUMPKINS
02-24-2011, 08:07 AM
the longer the product lasts - it begins to wear off, less people buy/visit. That is the way the things work in business.
Why he fired the guy if the numbers droped is unclear to me.
Afterall, it is Billy who is supposed to make news this guy is supposed to put on site.
The guy is just a tool in Bill's hands

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 08:47 AM
the longer the product lasts - it begins to wear off, less people buy/visit. That is the way the things work in business.

You don't understand business at all, do you.

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 08:48 AM
to be fair almost nobody does this. bill is an outlier on the histrionics box and whisker

yup

FoolofaTook
02-24-2011, 03:36 PM
He's turned into such a piece of shit, I can barely listen to Adore anymore. Adore is about the only last bit of old SP I hold on to. Fuck him and his bullshit forever now.

lol @ u caring
Grow some scrotum

The Omega Concern
02-24-2011, 03:41 PM
originally posted by Starla:

It's just like you Billy to blame your inadequacies on this poor webmaster guy. People don't go to your site because your music sucks. Ever think about that? You're still living in the past because people don't care about websites anymore. I just went and looked at it after not having seen it in months and now it really resembles what you are now, low quality. You're like these rich elite assholes who thinks they can order other people around and you think others are beneath you. I bet you treat waiters like shit in restaurants too. I really miss down to earth billy. What the fuck happen to you?

sad, but true. he's not living his full truth and its a weary existence. i think its time for him to stop thinking its better not revealing his secrets and let it ride, that'll start the path towards the attention he seemingly wants but he wants it without living his full truth...and I'm not sure it works that way.

FoolofaTook
02-24-2011, 03:45 PM
the longer the product lasts - it begins to wear off, less people buy/visit. That is the way the things work in business.
Why he fired the guy if the numbers droped is unclear to me.
Afterall, it is Billy who is supposed to make news this guy is supposed to put on site.
The guy is just a tool in Bill's hands

Susaj srpski kurac!

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 03:48 PM
in the omega concern dimension EVERYONE is secretly plotting something

so OC, what are you secretly plotting, what are YOUR secrets? YOU HAVE A LOT YOU MUST BE OBAMAFASCISTBOT 2500! READY TO SPRING INTO ACTION FROM YOUR BUNKER DEEP UNDER DIA WHEN THE ZYKLON B GAS KILLS 90% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION LOCKSTEP BOOTSTRAP FASCIST ONE WORLD CURRENCY OBAMA HITLER NWO

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 03:49 PM
BERNANKE

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 03:53 PM
serbian dick, this type of dick is the smallest of them all, because as we know serbian men and boys have vaginas and their women have moustaches, hairy legs, fat gutts, and a penis on their weistline and head!!
FUCK SERBZ

HRVATSKA I BOSNA ZA ZIVOTINA!!!!!!!

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 03:53 PM
wow a penis on their weistline and head????

FoolofaTook
02-24-2011, 05:24 PM
serbian dick, this type of dick is the smallest of them all, because as we know serbian men and boys have vaginas and their women have moustaches, hairy legs, fat gutts, and a penis on their weistline and head!!
FUCK SERBZ

HRVATSKA I BOSNA ZA ZIVOTINA!!!!!!!

This reminds me of a certain Kazak gentleman commenting on wizards sleeve

The Omega Concern
02-24-2011, 10:25 PM
originally posted by Trotskilicious:

in the omega concern dimension EVERYONE is secretly plotting something

so OC, what are you secretly plotting, what are YOUR secrets? YOU HAVE A LOT YOU MUST BE OBAMAFASCISTBOT 2500! READY TO SPRING INTO ACTION FROM YOUR BUNKER DEEP UNDER DIA WHEN THE ZYKLON B GAS KILLS 90% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION LOCKSTEP BOOTSTRAP FASCIST ONE WORLD CURRENCY OBAMA HITLER NWO

I do have a song I consider a "GodProof". I would like to share the story someday, all in due time.

stumpycat
02-24-2011, 10:59 PM
I do have a song I consider a "GodProof". I would like to share the story someday, all in due time.

Fucking go to a psychiatrist already. Something is seriously wrong with you if you are not a troll.

Trotskilicious
02-24-2011, 11:24 PM
He's like Jared Loughner with some lingering ties to the mortal world. Let's hope he keeps those.

The Omega Concern
02-25-2011, 04:01 PM
what are you guys afraid of?

and can't you see I put the term "Godproof" in quotes? It's a working theory I have that's based on an experience that actually could never be duplicated again, so admittedly the theory could never be proved, but if the description gets some of you riled up that's fine by me.

it's outside of any band experience I've had with music yet is probably the most significant experience I've had with a song and sound and it's a story that anyone can relate to, obsessed with music or not.

SlingeroGuitaro
02-25-2011, 04:04 PM
You're high, right?

Trotskilicious
02-25-2011, 04:07 PM
It's a working theory I have that's based on an experience that actually could never be duplicated again, so admittedly the theory could never be proved,.

-_-

The Omega Concern
02-25-2011, 04:41 PM
thus the quotes for the term...i mean I could name the song Wizard of Oz or maybe the song named itself, that's part of the mystery. : P

Jesus Cambodia
02-25-2011, 07:46 PM
What a fucking idiot. The website he had when he first brought back SP2 was pretty decent, they should have kept that. And I'm so sick of hearing him talk about music as a business. What the fuck, you know? You wanna make hits? Jesus christ, the popular acts right now are ke$ha and the black eyed peas, dickface. I'm just amazed this guy has become such a total joke. Fucking tea-bagger chem-trails professional rasslin' chicago cubs sasha grey business models dipshit. There's a sentence that could only ever make sense on this messageboard if there ever was one.

duovamp
02-25-2011, 08:31 PM
HOW. DARE. HE.

Trotskilicious
02-25-2011, 08:38 PM
billy should just go to rehab even if he's not addicted to anything

Starla
02-26-2011, 03:33 AM
originally posted by Starla:



sad, but true. he's not living his full truth and its a weary existence. i think its time for him to stop thinking its better not revealing his secrets and let it ride, that'll start the path towards the attention he seemingly wants but he wants it without living his full truth...and I'm not sure it works that way.

He's got himself mixed up with a bunch of bad people. He desires to live his truth but he can't. He doesn't know how. I wouldn't be surprised if he allowed some nit wit to do a past life regression on him or some type of experimental therapy that fucked up his mind.

Astur
02-26-2011, 06:40 AM
billy should just go to rehab even if he's not addicted to anything

that would make a funny and entertaining tv show

Luke de Spa
02-26-2011, 07:50 AM
He desires to live his truth
what the hell does this mean

does it just mean not lying about shit or what

barbecution
02-28-2011, 02:01 AM
class: a comparative study.

“By now you have heard the news of my departure from the Smashing Pumpkins. I will say, without going into any unnecessary details that this represents a positive move forward for me. I can no longer commit all of my energy into something that I don’t fully possess. I won’t pretend I’m into something I’m not. I won’t do it to myself, you the fan, or my former partner. I can’t just, “Cash the check” so to speak. Music is my life. It is sacred. It deserves the highest commitment at every level and the Pumpkins are certainly no different. I’m sorry but it really IS that simple. There is no drama, bad blood, or anything else but a full commitment to music. My best goes out to Billy and I’m glad he has chosen to continue under the name. It is his right. I will continue to make music with the Jimmy Chamberlin Complex as well as pursuing other musical interests. I feel that I have a long way to go and a lot to give. Thanks to everyone for your kind words and support through all of this. I am constantly humbled by all of you! It is an honor and a privilege to play music for a living and I don’t take it for granted not even for a second.”

"I had a Web guy for a while, not a very creative person, who ultimately got fired. At one point he wanted a raise, and I said to him, “You haven’t grown the Web site. When I write a song that becomes a hit song, I sell more tickets and more records. It’s a results-oriented business. So if 10,000 people visit the site every day and 6 months later there’s only 9,000 people visiting the site, that’s a real thing. I can’t guess what they’re thinking, I can just see the numbers.” He said, “Well, if you would visit the site more often or post something, then our numbers would go way up.” I replied, “Yeah, but there’s a reason they don’t put somebody on TV 24 hours a day. It’s the Scarcity Principle.”"

RenewRevive
02-28-2011, 08:41 AM
yeah, but which is funnier?

Kahlo
02-28-2011, 08:49 AM
After Corgan told Chamberlin he was out, the drummer "unloaded" on Corgan, unleashing 20 years worth of pent-up insults. "So I was like, 'Fuck you,' " Corgan recalls. " 'Go ride around in a white van for the rest of your life.' "

Chamberlin becomes apoplectic when he hears Corgan's account. "In the middle of the last tour, Billy said it was the agent's fault, then it was the band's fault, then it was the fans' fault," the drummer says. "Yes, in the past, I was a destructive human being. I was a complete drug addict and a complete loose cannon, but I've taken responsibility for my life.


"In the grand scheme of things," he adds, "it doesn't really move the needle that much anymore. It's a few gold rec*ords and a bunch of money. Who cares? I have a wife and kids, I'm completely happy." He has started a new band, called This, and he doesn't see the point of spending months painstakingly recording music anymore. "Music is such a small part of people's lives now," he says. "People don't sit around like they did in the Nineties and stare at album covers and think about Kurt and Billy. I fucking hated the Nineties."


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/billy-corgan-rock-god-interrupted-rolling-stones-2010-feature-20110103?page=4

Want2BCAIC
02-28-2011, 09:17 AM
And we all thank you for posting a post from a rolling stones article that we have all heard and seen several times. Very impressive work Kahiole. Thanks for the memories.

scottytheoneand
02-28-2011, 12:49 PM
Jimmy, out of the Pumpkins AGAIN!

All he did was ask some witch doctor what to do. Should have done that the first time. Would have saved all that drug money and it would have been a lot easier on everybody, especially Jonathan Melvoin.

Kahlo
02-28-2011, 12:51 PM
Hey this is the Billy Corgan/Smashing Pumpkins board. You can only be mean about Billy Corgan. We will not tolerate snarky comments directed at JC.

scottytheoneand
02-28-2011, 12:54 PM
Hey this is the Billy Corgan/Smashing Pumpkins board. You can only be mean about Billy Corgan. We will not tolerate snarky comments directed at JC.

OK, then where's the Jimmy & D'Arcy board? I want to comment on what losers they both are.

Kahlo
02-28-2011, 01:21 PM
OK, then where's the Jimmy & D'Arcy board? I want to comment on what losers they both are.

http://forums.netphoria.org/customavatars/avatar25839_3.gif

Trotskilicious
02-28-2011, 03:09 PM
billy corgan made another alt

Liandrin
03-04-2011, 09:59 PM
It's definitely unprofessional to slag the web designer in public like that...

That being said, Billy wasn't impressed with the guy's work and when the contract was up, he decided not to resign the guy. Nothing too scandalous here. If it wasn't for him publicly throwing the guy under the bus afterwards, this would be a non-issue.

I think a lot of Billy's apparent asshattery is really just mundane stuff that ends up seeming far worse than it is because he doesn't know when to STFU. So much for that "Scarcity Principle"; he seems to be everywhere (except his own website) constantly kvetching about one thing or another.

SlingeroGuitaro
03-05-2011, 01:39 AM
It isn't like he said 'the dude's name was X and he lives on X and get this he only has one nut!' the guy could have been an equal douche to bill.

Trotskilicious
03-05-2011, 02:27 AM
It's definitely unprofessional to slag the web designer in public like that...

That being said, Billy wasn't impressed with the guy's work and when the contract was up, he decided not to resign the guy. Nothing too scandalous here. If it wasn't for him publicly throwing the guy under the bus afterwards, this would be a non-issue.

I think a lot of Billy's apparent asshattery is really just mundane stuff that ends up seeming far worse than it is because he doesn't know when to STFU. So much for that "Scarcity Principle"; he seems to be everywhere (except his own website) constantly kvetching about one thing or another.

yeah that's the deal thanks for getting us caught up

croPUMPKINS
03-06-2011, 04:29 PM
You don't understand business at all, do you.

well... not sure where you are aiming at. But glad to hear from an expert... if you think something sells more the longer it lasts... eg. did MCIS sell more in 2010 than it did back in '96!?

the newer - the better sale, it doesn't take an expert you know. Sure I think I do understand business better than you.

SlingeroGuitaro
03-06-2011, 06:18 PM
Pretty sure the beatles sold more than the pumpkins in 2010.

Fuck, I would be willing to bet Abbey Road sold more than the entire pumpkins catalog combined. Digital or otherwise

redbull
03-06-2011, 06:45 PM
nuka kraotia

Trotskilicious
03-06-2011, 09:48 PM
well... not sure where you are aiming at. But glad to hear from an expert... if you think something sells more the longer it lasts... eg. did MCIS sell more in 2010 than it did back in '96!?

the newer - the better sale, it doesn't take an expert you know. Sure I think I do understand business better than you.

yes because reissues don't sell

look up dark side of the moon, also.

Trotskilicious
03-06-2011, 09:48 PM
<i>holy shit you're so fucking stupid</i>

FoolofaTook
03-07-2011, 01:09 AM
He's a south slav. Stupidity is our hallmark.

Sarcastic Smile
03-07-2011, 02:14 AM
mostly tl;dr but wtf.. it doesnt matter if billy doesnt know when to stfu im sick of that excuse.. its about being negative and classless, every individual is accountable for their own actions, I have the worst nonfilter mouth of anyone I know.. yet I'm nearly half Billys age and I have learned when to reel it in and the only time i can't do that is when im passionate about something, don't even try to tell me billy is so passionate about what a bad job his old web guy did that he needed to say something ? even if this guy WAS completely incompetent he shouldn't be blasting that on interviews, unless the guy intended to harm him or did something intentional to him personally that is not the forum to speak about it A. billy or whoever hired him in the first place. B. ok whatever you didn't like his work, fired him, move the fuck on.

Wether he mentioned the dude or not by name like one of you said it doesn't matter. this guy knows his name, his friend know he worked for the site im sure.. even fuckin kahlo knows so don't try to pretend it is in complete anonymity. It just shows how little class he has to bash some employee of his and dump the blame, like always, for anything that goes wrong for him.. even if he didn't do a good job someone with class would never say that. They would just briefly and vaguely touch on the subject if they had to.. Billy always preaches about avoiding negative people yet he pulls shit like this. Look in the fucking mirror buddy. Nice ideology but why don't you actually practice what you preach?

Sarcastic Smile
03-07-2011, 02:31 AM
So he's intelligent except in all of the ways that he's a complete dumbass.

I mean I guess musical talent is a component of intelligence but that's really all he has to work with, as far as I can tell. And he's not utilizing it very well anymore.

He seems like the kind of person who makes all these grand pronouncements that are either blatantly obvious to everyone or that have no basis in reality and are just pulled from his ass.

Not to mention his batshit conspiracy theories. He just does not seem very bright.

right. like wtf is the point of everyone always saying he's intelligent? how? Like smarter than you or I intelligent? Right now he's not, make amazing music intelligent.

I spend 8 hours a day studying DNA and working stupid electrophoresis gels in a lab and I KNOW that I know nothing. I know people who work hard and dedicate their lives to finding cures for diseases. Billy hasn't cured cancer. He hasn't contributed to humanity in any substantial way except with his words, back then. Now all he does is complain and episodes like this show how he still doesn't take personal responsibility for anything.

I remember him making a stupid blog mentioning America and their starbucks and khakis.. and he always mentions, like you said, conspiracy theories... and even hot topic social and economic issues.. like many people like him he seems to think he is the only enlightened one.. but all i do is hear him complain i never hear about him doing anything about anything he has a problem with. That to me is the typical american.. not the starbucks drinking khaki asshole

Sarcastic Smile
03-07-2011, 02:33 AM
15 minutes of my life wasted.. good reminder of why i dont read this garbage

Sarcastic Smile
03-07-2011, 04:41 AM
I wasn't directing that at bill you faggot i was directing it as people who always say "but he's so intelligent he just .. blah blah whatever"

Trotskilicious
03-07-2011, 08:57 AM
i like the smugness inherent in your posts. i work with dna = i'm more important than artists

k have YOU cured cancer yet? CHOP CHOP.

Cool As Ice Cream
03-07-2011, 09:55 AM
It's definitely unprofessional to slag the web designer in public like that...

That being said, Billy wasn't impressed with the guy's work and when the contract was up, he decided not to resign the guy. Nothing too scandalous here. If it wasn't for him publicly throwing the guy under the bus afterwards, this would be a non-issue.

I think a lot of Billy's apparent asshattery is really just mundane stuff that ends up seeming far worse than it is because he doesn't know when to STFU. So much for that "Scarcity Principle"; he seems to be everywhere (except his own website) constantly kvetching about one thing or another.

please focus solely on the billy bashing side of the story. that's what this thread was created for. thank you.

Trotskilicious
03-07-2011, 10:03 AM
he has every right to fire whoever he wants to at any time but you don't talk about it in public. I still don't know specifically why people were fired from my place of work, I can make guesses but it's not like at the morning meeting the boss says "OK so we fired Larry because he picks his nose and there's boogers all over the keyboard, in addition to that, he was taking regular dumps in the flower pots."

Kahlo
03-07-2011, 10:05 AM
Just to restate that the guys contract came to again - he wasn't fired. He simply concentrated on other clients.

Caine Walker
03-07-2011, 10:56 AM
so, this thread should actually be renamed to:

"The contract expiration of the SP.COM webmaster"

Trotskilicious
03-07-2011, 11:34 AM
yeah even stupider. even when this happens in pro sports owners don't usually take parting shots at their coach. they don't even take parting shots at them that much after they fire them

i mean like last year, the cowboys fired a completely clueless failure of a leader in the middle of the season and everyone could see how inept wade phillips was but nobody said anything bad about him as he went out the door.

PEOPLE. JERRY JONES IS A BETTER PERSON THAN BILLY CORGAN. HOW CAN THIS BE?????

Cool As Ice Cream
03-07-2011, 12:24 PM
please focus solely on the billy bashing side of the story. that's what this thread was created for. thank you.

do not say "oh yeah, people get fired every day. sure."
that is not part of our message.
focus on b0lly.

Cool As Ice Cream
03-07-2011, 12:25 PM
thank you.

The Omega Concern
03-07-2011, 04:34 PM
originally posted by Sarcastic Smile:

I spend 8 hours a day studying DNA and working stupid electrophoresis gels in a lab and I KNOW that I know nothing.


Interesting. So you haven't gotten to the part when Enki fused the DNA of the Annunaki and primitive earth Apes to create Homosapiens?

FoolofaTook
03-07-2011, 08:27 PM
Interesting.

The Omega Concern
03-07-2011, 10:47 PM
yah, but only a muse can fuse spirituality and science into oneness.

stumpycat
03-08-2011, 12:03 AM
right. like wtf is the point of everyone always saying he's intelligent? how? Like smarter than you or I intelligent? Right now he's not, make amazing music intelligent.
Um...no. I think that a number of people on this message board are actually relatively intelligent. When I said that I meant intelligent in a somewhat generic sense, not that he did something specifically great to prove his intelligence (although I would assume one would have at least a reasonable degree of intelligence to play, orchestrate, and produce music as he did.) Also I'm sure you've come across those sort of people that you can tell are intelligent but, for whatever reason, don't bother to use their damned brain even though you see the glimmers of potential underneath. In Billy's case, we know his potential because we've seen it, but it's as though he's just taken his talents or what reasonable degree of intelligence he has and shat all over them with his apparent emotional immaturity and psychological challenges. For example, he's CHOSEN to buy into whatever superficially logical, emotionally satiating god-bothering conspiracy nut I'm-so-special BS out there as a substitute for embrace and pursuit of understanding of real, hard knowledge. His pseudo intellectual diarrhea is starting to compare in tone with Glenn Beck unfortunately. Most importantly, he exhibits an analogous attitude in the music he makes these days. This is what's particularly offensive to many of us here.


he has every right to fire whoever he wants to at any time but you don't talk about it in public. I still don't know specifically why people were fired from my place of work, I can make guesses but it's not like at the morning meeting the boss says "OK so we fired Larry because he picks his nose and there's boogers all over the keyboard, in addition to that, he was taking regular dumps in the flower pots."
Damn, that would be entertaining. :embarass: But the boss is obliged to be discreet; the real scoop comes down through the grapevine anyway (and usually with a few entertaining, overly dramatized elaborations.) Oh how I love coworkers that are chatty cathy's (except, of course, when I stop to think how my shortcomings could become a subject of their leaky gossip spigot...so I make sure to stay in their good graces...)

Just to restate that the guys contract came to again - he wasn't fired. He simply concentrated on other clients.
Probably true. At least from what I've experienced this is pretty much what goes on when you are contracted to design a website. BTW, just imagine how shitty Billy would be at Japanese business etiquette...


yeah even stupider. even when this happens in pro sports owners don't usually take parting shots at their coach. they don't even take parting shots at them that much after they fire them

i mean like last year, the cowboys fired a completely clueless failure of a leader in the middle of the season and everyone could see how inept wade phillips was but nobody said anything bad about him as he went out the door.

PEOPLE. JERRY JONES IS A BETTER PERSON THAN BILLY CORGAN. HOW CAN THIS BE?????
Uhh...because the rich-as-fuck self aggrandizing control freak bastard has that good ole' boy social sheen that makes him look like a character out of Dallas and brings $$$ into Arlington? Just speculation...because I'm not actually sure that your assertion is true.


Is it smugness?? Does it make it less true if it is? Scientists are more important than artists. They just are. I used to think artists were important contributors to society, but no, they aren't. I say that smugly, yet firmly. It seems clear to me now that artists are actually a drain on society (at least in terms of music). They inspire teenagers (and mongoloid twenty-somethings) to imitate them, and does anyone disagree that when people imitate artists, they are the worst people in the world? Have you ever met someone that imitates ICP, or Ke$ha, or any of them.... Even the good artists, when people imitate them it's just horrible. They promote individuality while robbing the masses of it. OH THE HUMANITY. Seriously though, scientists win over artists. These are the people that dedicate their lives to progress, while everyone else find some menial task to support their pizza and xbox habits. Or worse, trying to imitate an artist.
Hmm...an interesting way of looking at artists or entertainers. Especially about the people who imitate artists looking like the worst people in the world. I just LOOOOVE it when you get these dweeby fanboys who will proudly say things like, "I think X is the greatest X in the world because he's just so inspirational, he taught me how to be original and to just be myself and that I don't have to be like everyone else..."--WHILE DRESSED HEAD TO TOE LIKE X FUCKING ENTERTAINER!

And compare this to the even "geekier" kids who become fanboys of certain scientists...I doubt any great ill comes out of society when a highschool kid decides to "imitate" Einstein...by taking all the math and science courses they care to stomach, spending countless hours reading research and readying their project for science fairs, and then applying to Caltech! These people seem to have absolutely no life also but in this case the quest for imitation will cause them to pick up many highly specialized forms of knowledge along the way which will lead to new discoveries.

stumpycat
03-08-2011, 12:13 AM
i like the smugness inherent in your posts. i work with dna = i'm more important than artists

k have YOU cured cancer yet? CHOP CHOP.

Hey, I get his point about the "I really don't know shit yet, do I?" epiphany. I think it's along the lines of what I was talking about regarding real knowledge acquisition (which can be a long, hard road where others seem to have dug up all the good easy discoveries already) versus the superficially satisfying but ultimately hollow pseudo intellectualism so characteristic of Billy these days.

FoolofaTook
03-08-2011, 12:21 AM
Is it smugness?? Does it make it less true if it is? Scientists are more important than artists. They just are. I used to think artists were important contributors to society, but no, they aren't. I say that smugly, yet firmly. It seems clear to me now that artists are actually a drain on society (at least in terms of music). They inspire teenagers (and mongoloid twenty-somethings) to imitate them, and does anyone disagree that when people imitate artists, they are the worst people in the world? Have you ever met someone that imitates ICP, or Ke$ha, or any of them.... Even the good artists, when people imitate them it's just horrible. They promote individuality while robbing the masses of it. OH THE HUMANITY. Seriously though, scientists win over artists. These are the people that dedicate their lives to progress, while everyone else find some menial task to support their pizza and xbox habits. Or worse, trying to imitate an artist.

Please tell me you're trolling.

Sarcastic Smile
03-08-2011, 03:25 AM
i like the smugness inherent in your posts. i work with dna = i'm more important than artists

k have YOU cured cancer yet? CHOP CHOP.


I'm not trying to be smug..I have nothing to be smug about. I was using it as a platform to make my point. There are people out there who deserve to be called intelligent, he is no longer one of those people to me.

People who try to raise awareness on real global issues and try to do something to help are intelligent. Not middle aged bald men who sit and complain about these issues while running around LA with reality TV stars.


All it sounds like Bill uses his brain for anymore is to think of more things to complain about or blame someone for. If he was some random person on the street bitching I'd feel the same way..I can't stand people who sit there and act like they are so much more "aware" or enlightened than everyone else.. that to me is smug.

All I do is study, so yeah sciency shit is going to come up in my posts sometimes.. Since you said "postS" maybe you just think my personality is smug. If that is the case the s my d

Cool As Ice Cream
03-08-2011, 03:28 AM
siamese my dream

Sarcastic Smile
03-08-2011, 03:44 AM
swab my deck

Kahlo
03-08-2011, 05:43 AM
You kind of ruined the beauty in this thread Mickey.

Gish08
03-08-2011, 02:40 PM
Billy does not understand how the Internet works. What a tard.

Trotskilicious
03-08-2011, 03:05 PM
Uhh...because the rich-as-fuck self aggrandizing control freak bastard has that good ole' boy social sheen that makes him look like a character out of Dallas and brings $$$ into Arlington? Just speculation...because I'm not actually sure that your assertion is true.

huh? no. Wade Phillips coached a pre season super bowl favorite to a 1-6 start or something, coupled with a total dismantling by the eventual super bowl winner and that got him shit canned. And every football fan could tell just by the product on the field, players not running hard enough, defense confused, unorganized and lackadasical that the head coach was totally at a loss to run a franchise. All of this is true, but the players and coaches still didn't publically shitbag Phillips after he left even though anyone who saw the Cowboys play at the beginning of the year wouldn't blame him for it. Billy Corgan, however, publically shitbags every single one of his bandmates and anyone he's ever come in contact with that didn't maintain the level of sycophantic shithole nosing that he so requires.

That's my point.

duovamp
03-08-2011, 05:08 PM
Just anything to bitch about, anything at all, and you crybabies will find it.

Billy has webpage with free music on it - yeah but the webpage looks shitty
Billy doesn't renew contract with very shitty web designer - yeah but he didn't say what I wanted
Billy wins Olympic competition - yeah but he showed off his medal too much
Billy releases free music - yeah but it's not what I want




Keep it up, gentlemen.

stumpycat
03-08-2011, 09:23 PM
huh? no. Wade Phillips coached a pre season super bowl favorite to a 1-6 start or something, coupled with a total dismantling by the eventual super bowl winner and that got him shit canned. And every football fan could tell just by the product on the field, players not running hard enough, defense confused, unorganized and lackadasical that the head coach was totally at a loss to run a franchise. All of this is true, but the players and coaches still didn't publically shitbag Phillips after he left even though anyone who saw the Cowboys play at the beginning of the year wouldn't blame him for it. Billy Corgan, however, publically shitbags every single one of his bandmates and anyone he's ever come in contact with that didn't maintain the level of sycophantic shithole nosing that he so requires.

That's my point.

No, I agree that Wade Phillips must have been a completely shitty coach simply because, if nothing else, he seemed to exert zero control over what was going on in the field and the team was fucking up executing even completely basic shit. It's like he just said to them, "hey, I know you're big boys and you're pro players so I'm not gonna insult your talent by pushing you to drill or anything if you don't think you need it...in fact, whenever we win you can take a day or two off from training if you want some chill time...".

But I still think that Jerry Jones is a complete douche (even being one that can keep his trap shut for the sake of propriety) albeit in a slightly different way than Billy.

FoolofaTook
03-09-2011, 01:55 AM
People who try to raise awareness on real global issues and try to do something to help are intelligent.

Or as delusional as you are.

Trotskilicious
03-09-2011, 02:10 AM
he seemed to exert zero control over what was going on in the field and the team was fucking up executing even completely basic shit.

Yeah, exactly. And Wade Phillips still didn't get dissed by the guy who fired him. But, to be fair, the fans probably did all that for Jerry.

Billy's still a dick for trashing people he used to work with in interviews or just blabbing it on the internets. There's really no excuse for that kind of behavior.

stumpycat
03-09-2011, 02:38 AM
Yeah, exactly. And Wade Phillips still didn't get dissed by the guy who fired him. But, to be fair, the fans probably did all that for Jerry.

Billy's still a dick for trashing people he used to work with in interviews or just blabbing it on the internets. There's really no excuse for that kind of behavior.
In all fairness, Wade Phillips wasn't a dick, either--he was just completely ineffectual. So it's difficult to feel vitriolic towards him really.

Sometimes I think that Billy was never forced to learn how to act like a grown-up when it comes to interacting professionally with people. As a rock star he was able to get away with petulance.

Kahlo
03-09-2011, 04:22 AM
I'd agree with that - growing up in the public eye can't really be healthy for emotional development tbh

Luke de Spa
03-09-2011, 04:40 AM
dude was 26 when siamese dream was released. if you're not almost or already grown up by then it's probably never going to happen

Kahlo
03-09-2011, 04:42 AM
I didn't realise he was that old when SD came out. Depressing.
Oh well, back to the Billy is crazy hypothesis.

Trotskilicious
03-09-2011, 08:37 AM
i thought that was fact

teamneedle
03-09-2011, 09:38 PM
i bet it just really makes his day when he gets to fire somebody

like he did it himself??

Liandrin
03-09-2011, 10:14 PM
dude was 26 when siamese dream was released. if you're not almost or already grown up by then it's probably never going to happen

I know it's lame to blame your parents for personal failings, but I think it's only fair to say that Billy was legitimately disadvantaged in the social graces department by his upbringing. A kid who is raised by charming, social butterflies has an advantage over the kid who is raised by neglectful trolls.

Then, mix in a naturally high-strung temperament, followed by a decade of rock stardom, with the intense combination of adulation and scrutiny that comes with it, and you end up with a highly-driven, paranoid narcissist who lacks the social skills to hide it.

FoolofaTook
03-09-2011, 10:36 PM
dude was 26 when siamese dream was released. if you're not almost or already grown up by then it's probably never going to happen

So I'm fucked for life?

RenewRevive
03-10-2011, 08:32 AM
'twould seem likely amigo.

Cool As Ice Cream
06-30-2015, 08:41 AM
welcom back, sp media militia.

SP MediaMilitia
06-30-2015, 02:13 PM
Hey I wondered if anyone archived that interview snippet. I should probably read this whole thread this afternoon.

Edit: wow. This is a trip down memory lane and I am not sure I am ready for this at this time. Who is Kahlo? They sure are sticking up for me!!! Thanks!

Skradgee
06-30-2015, 02:32 PM
Here's a picture of Kahlo from his Amish Rake Fighter days:



http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Z9_lDtSIljk/UgDZiYKHjWI/AAAAAAAAiTM/icBn2PgBnPE/s1600/los-simpson-freedie-kruger-willie-casita-del-horror-noche-de-brujas.jpg

SP MediaMilitia
06-30-2015, 10:43 PM
so, this thread should actually be renamed to:

"The contract expiration of the SP.COM webmaster"

:rofl:

SP MediaMilitia
06-30-2015, 11:55 PM
My final thought of the day on this matter:

TIL that the current smashingpumpkins website is powered by none other than the bleeding edge technology provided by the website you may know as WIX (http://www.wix.com)

Mals Marola
06-30-2015, 11:58 PM
I didn't realise he was that old when SD came out. Depressing.

how is that depressing? you only have so much power over when your Major Label Debut is going to come out, & when did you think the pumpkins had started anyway, 1990 on the dot?

there's a reason mellon collie was touted as pretty much the last time corgan & co were going to "pander" to teens, they were probably sick of it by that point despite the fact that on paper it was only their 3rd album. fucking formal release politics

Ram27
07-01-2015, 12:16 AM
why does music have to pander to teens or appeal to adults or anything

like what makes the hummer sitar intro more appealing to so and so and why does that have to change because billy got fed up

i dunno man

whatever

Mals Marola
07-01-2015, 12:56 AM
hell if i know, i'm not the one who made that declaration/"line in the sand"

it was captain corgy himself

Trotskilicious
07-01-2015, 01:25 AM
serbian dick, this type of dick is the smallest of them all, because as we know serbian men and boys have vaginas and their women have moustaches, hairy legs, fat gutts, and a penis on their weistline and head!!
FUCK SERBZ

HRVATSKA I BOSNA ZA ZIVOTINA!!!!!!!

what the fuck is this, i don't even

Cool As Ice Cream
07-01-2015, 02:23 AM
Who is Kahlo?

aka machinist

Cool As Ice Cream
07-01-2015, 02:23 AM
My final thought of the day on this matter:

TIL that the current smashingpumpkins website is powered by none other than the bleeding edge technology provided by the website you may know as WIX (http://www.wix.com)

lol

Muzz1e
07-02-2015, 05:43 PM
Since Bolly said you had, "zero creativity," I am curious how much of the old site were your ideas versus his own, in light of how bland the current site is?

SP MediaMilitia
07-03-2015, 08:43 AM
Since Bolly said you had, "zero creativity," I am curious how much of the old site were your ideas versus his own, in light of how bland the current site is?

That's a pretty complex question to answer completely. It was a bit collaborative in the sense where I was given directives and other things I would come up with on my own. I had to implement everything though.

I did not 'create' the site from scratch, that's for sure. There was another company that built it from the ground up, but it wasn't super bleeding edge technology at the time. It definitely worked though. Almost everything had to be hand coded on the fly, and you couldn't easily preview anything before it went live. That's just the way things worked back then. After I got the hang of the system, I was pretty happy with it.

Things like changing the graphics were just me. I was told to change the skin every so often, but all there was for me to work with was the Zeitgeist artwork. I was always very anxious to make any major changes of my own to anything. I did have a little fun at one point and added things like UFO's flying over the Statue of Liberty, which was sinking bit by bit into the sea with every reskin of the site. This was when I started reading fan-reactions and comments that were trying to read into what the changes meant. "Oh wow, the statue is sinking even more! Does this mean the band is getting closer to a shift in style of music?" Geez guys, no it was just some lonely web-guy's way of tweaking stuff in such a way that wouldn't look like he was going hog wild with official artwork.

I hope that answers the question.

Kahlo
07-03-2015, 09:50 AM
how is that depressing? you only have so much power over when your Major Label Debut is going to come out, & when did you think the pumpkins had started anyway, 1990 on the dot?


I'm talking about him 'growing up in the spotlight' - I thought he was much younger when SD came out.

Grox
07-03-2015, 12:25 PM
I'm talking about him 'growing up in the spotlight' - I thought he was much younger when SD came out.

tbf he was 24 when gish came out, and that was a really successful record. it was the biggest selling independent album for four years, until the first offspring record. obviously it was dwarfed by Nevermind, in Billy's mind and the world's eye, but he hasn't been a 'nobody' since 1990. falling in love with Courtney Love, throwing her out of his apartment only to have her go to the Metro and hook up with Kurt Cobain was the catalyst for the suicidal depression he's talked a lot about. that, and the extreme pressure from everyone to make a hit record. so even before SD was made, he was dealing with being written about and compared to his peers by the press, the public, and his record label.

slunken
07-03-2015, 01:55 PM
at least in his own head

Cool As Ice Cream
07-03-2015, 06:24 PM
the only head in the world, world, world