View Full Version : Jesus, I/Mary Star of the Sea appreciation thread


sjpaterra
09-19-2010, 10:47 AM
I was going through my cd collection trying to dig up something I hadn't listened to in a while and I saw Zwan's MSOTS... I remembered how kick-ass Jesus, I/MSTOS was so I put on the cd just to listen to all 14 glorious minutes of that tune...

It's interesting how Zwan was a total failure yet there are a number of quality tunes on that album, although songs like "Yeah" and "Endless Summer" still make me cringe in a WWMM kind of way. I just thought in case anyone forgot about how incredible the song is, how inspired it sounds, how much effort was put into making that happen... all the guitar work, all the JIMMY, it's just a really, really incredible tune and as far as I'm concerned that track is about as good as ANYTHING thats been released in the last 10 years... it's a shame that pretty well no one will ever hear it except for us die-hards

anyway, shoot me down, netphoria!

Ihaguitar
09-19-2010, 11:33 AM
MSOTS had some good songs but produced in a very pumpkins way and then there was the digital clipping which Billy thought sounded cool...

Slurpee
09-19-2010, 01:20 PM
Great song, and it only got better live.

Ihaguitar
09-19-2010, 01:26 PM
Great song, and it only got better live.

Because it lost the Pumpkins vibe.

sjpaterra
09-19-2010, 02:16 PM
MSOTS had some good songs but produced in a very pumpkins way and then there was the digital clipping which Billy thought sounded cool...

I've read about the digital clipping and even remember a long time ago when MSOTS was released, in an interview at a toronto radio station or through some billy corgan PSA he mentioned something like "we just wanted to make the loudest fucking rock and roll album we could" or something LIKE that... but to be honest, I never really noticed it? I do own it on vinyl and cd... i actually thought the production was quite good, albeit the guitars on MSOTS are pretty over the top loud... i would have thought the whole album would have been recorded, mixed, and mastered in analogue then converted to digital for cd's...

could you explain this clipping phenomenon a little further... maybe give me some examples to listen for!

thanks a lot!

Mo
09-19-2010, 02:22 PM
Don't need the "Jesus, I" part (except maybe in combination with "God's Gonna Set This World On Fire"), but MSOTS is one of Billy's best.

<iframe class="youtube-player" type="text/html" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OMQEZx9PqSo" frameborder="0" height="385" width="480"></iframe>

Ihaguitar
09-19-2010, 02:40 PM
I've read about the digital clipping and even remember a long time ago when MSOTS was released, in an interview at a toronto radio station or through some billy corgan PSA he mentioned something like "we just wanted to make the loudest fucking rock and roll album we could" or something LIKE that... but to be honest, I never really noticed it? I do own it on vinyl and cd... i actually thought the production was quite good, albeit the guitars on MSOTS are pretty over the top loud... i would have thought the whole album would have been recorded, mixed, and mastered in analogue then converted to digital for cd's...

could you explain this clipping phenomenon a little further... maybe give me some examples to listen for!

thanks a lot!

There's two or three tracks where it is most noticeable, and I think only one where it isnt present at all (Of A Broken Heart). Ride A Black Swan I seem to remember has very noticeable digital clipping. It gives the music a harsh quality and you can hear a sort of spitting harshness when it's really bad.

I havent listened to MSOTS for years though.

Future Boy
09-19-2010, 02:43 PM
i liked them better separate

Future Boy
09-19-2010, 02:45 PM
didnt someone say the clipping isnt there on the vinyl.

redbull
09-19-2010, 02:50 PM
pretty sure that was the mythical zeitgeist vinyl

Ihaguitar
09-19-2010, 02:55 PM
I think it's on the vinyl too because Billy introduced the clipping in the production stage rather than the mastering stage which means the masters are clipped.

Zeitgeist was supposed to have a vinyl mastered by Steve Hoffman to audiophile standards (like the Red Hot Chili Peppers' Stadium Arcadium) but I think the sales of the CD were too low and Warner shelved the idea.

Ihaguitar
09-19-2010, 03:02 PM
btw there's clipping on Machina too, listen to the bridge part of Stand Inside Your Love.

Slurpee
09-19-2010, 03:20 PM
Don't need the "Jesus, I" part (except maybe in combination with "God's Gonna Set This World On Fire"), but MSOTS is one of Billy's best.

<iframe class="youtube-player" type="text/html" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OMQEZx9PqSo" frameborder="0" height="385" width="480"></iframe>

One of the best performances of the song. I love Paz's ass in this video.

soniclovenoize
09-20-2010, 10:09 AM
I think it's on the vinyl too because Billy introduced the clipping in the production stage rather than the mastering stage which means the masters are clipped.

Zeitgeist was supposed to have a vinyl mastered by Steve Hoffman to audiophile standards (like the Red Hot Chili Peppers' Stadium Arcadium) but I think the sales of the CD were too low and Warner shelved the idea.

I haven't done any frequency analysis, but it seems the Mary vinyl does not clip. The whole mix seems much more pristine and clear... It's up on what and waffles, check it out for yourself!

vbshlofbvgos
09-20-2010, 10:16 AM
can we stop talking about the clicking now like 10 years later but anyway yes its a great tune

soniclovenoize
09-20-2010, 10:42 AM
Here's the vbr mp3s of the MSotS vinyl rip I encoded myself for personal use...
2003 Mary Star Of The Sea (vinyl).zip (http://www.mediafire.com/?wlyd93ro84c2s1m)

Eulogy
09-20-2010, 11:46 AM
I listened to the whole album a few days ago and only skipped Baby Let's Rock, because that song sucks.

The rest of the album is quite good, I think. But I always liked it. so.

starlightvideoproductions
09-20-2010, 11:48 AM
One of those mysteries of the universe that such a bad album can contain such a good song. As far as the clipping goes, I could never hear it much on lower end audio stuff, but once I got the high def audio in my car, I was saddened by how bad the album clipped. Its great we have some of the pre-masters that don't clip but no MSOTS/Jesus I unfortunately.

New Art Rioter
09-20-2010, 12:11 PM
Baby Let's Rock, Heartsong and Desire are all terrible tunes. There's some great ones on the album though, Declarations Of Faith, Ride A Black Swan, Endless Summer and Jesus I are all really good... I think the album gets a bad rep around here a little unfairly... probably because we all know how good it could of been

Astur
09-20-2010, 12:44 PM
Here's the vbr mp3s of the MSotS vinyl rip I encoded myself for personal use...
2003 Mary Star Of The Sea (vinyl).zip (http://www.mediafire.com/?wlyd93ro84c2s1m)

i must spread shit before blablabla

thank you man

Eulogy
09-20-2010, 01:25 PM
Baby Let's Rock, Heartsong and Desire are all terrible tunes. There's some great ones on the album though, Declarations Of Faith, Ride A Black Swan, Endless Summer and Jesus I are all really good... I think the album gets a bad rep around here a little unfairly... probably because we all know how good it could of been

Heartsong is alright and Desire is awesome. fu.

eyesofruby32
09-20-2010, 02:46 PM
I LOVE THESE APPRECIATION THREADS!!! Mary ranks 3rd on my song list for songs to be appreciated on Zwan. It used to rank 2nd but it changed wnen I broke up with my girlfriend Mary, adn everytime I hear the song, I think of the many times she physically and mentally abused me. So it may fall down the list further depending on how much it affects me in the longterm. I think it probably ranks about 74 in songs of appreciation for BC songs. Not too sure what my first overall would be. It changes pretty much on a daily basis. But thank you for bringing up that you appreciate Mary. Apparently there were many that appreciated my Mary too I found out later. I love these appreciation threads!!!!!!!!!!

Did you smoke crack or something?

Eulogy
09-20-2010, 03:16 PM
Did you smoke crack or something?

don't quote him

zsp77
09-20-2010, 04:55 PM
Ever wonder why they kill the weak ones baby?

rudi
09-21-2010, 01:25 AM
Zwan was dope and it's a shame they ended so early.

rudi
09-21-2010, 01:34 AM
Don't need the "Jesus, I" part (except maybe in combination with "God's Gonna Set This World On Fire"), but MSOTS is one of Billy's best.

<iframe class="youtube-player" type="text/html" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OMQEZx9PqSo" frameborder="0" height="385" width="480"></iframe>



Jesus FUCKING Christ, the last 3 minutes of this performance are absolutely unbelievable. Massive erection the entire time.

Trotskilicious
09-21-2010, 02:05 AM
i never listened to this album

TuralyonW3
09-21-2010, 02:57 AM
great epic song. probably his best thing since 2000

antiskum
09-21-2010, 03:07 AM
actually love the way billy plays off jimmy live, really great chemistry

RenewRevive
09-21-2010, 09:00 AM
I listened to the whole album a few days ago and only skipped Baby Let's Rock, because that song sucks.

The rest of the album is quite good, I think. But I always liked it. so.

agreed. sometimes, when feeling harsh i skip El Sol and Come With Me too.

rudi
09-21-2010, 12:47 PM
I know.....I know...right? That is why I love these threads SO much!! I appreciated it before, but forgot to appreciate it lately until brought to my attention again. Now I appreciate again!! Thank you so much for making this thread!! Who will be the next one to start a thread about appreciating a song?? I hope it is soon so I can listen to that song and appreciate that one again.

I had never seen this live version before, so I am glad somebody posted it.

paranoid
09-23-2010, 11:10 PM
that video is incredible. how can someone watch that then watch an SP3 video and not cringe?

anyway, of a broken heart is probably my favorite zwan era tune, with msots coming in second.

Trotskilicious
09-24-2010, 02:20 AM
actually love the way billy plays off jimmy

full stop

i put gish in the rotation recently. you can hear that all over it.

russian iha
09-24-2010, 03:35 AM
I fell in love with the song after their 12/06/2002 Spaceland gig. The live perfomance had this goosebumpy tremolo effect during the last "bending string behind the guitar nut" trick.

Gish08
09-25-2010, 05:06 PM
it's sad how Billy and Jimmy had a falling out. I at one point thought they were gonna be linked together musically speaking for, like, ever. Guess not.

soniclovenoize
09-26-2010, 08:23 PM
I hope you all appreciate me sifting through this dunghill of a thread to find such gems as this.

I would appreciate it more if you sifted through my ass hairs; there's some gems in there for you.

soniclovenoize
09-27-2010, 11:54 AM
"...there ARE some gems in there..."

jesus fucking christ

So your joking.

So you ARE joking.

samuel redman
09-27-2010, 01:12 PM
it's sad how Billy and Jimmy had a falling out. I at one point thought they were gonna be linked together musically speaking for, like, ever. Guess not.

bills wouldn't want that

Monet LSD
09-27-2010, 03:42 PM
would of been

i see what U did there

Monet LSD
09-27-2010, 04:10 PM
:rockon:

Corganist
09-27-2010, 06:09 PM
This just came on in the car on my way to work today, so I will appreciate as well. As an alternative pop rock record, MSOTS is pretty good. But as a lasting document of what Zwan was actually doing that time, it's woefully inadequate. Jesus I/MSOTS is the only song on the album that really even comes close to capturing what worked about them.

dustrock
09-27-2010, 10:06 PM
yeah seeing this live just reinforced what a great band they were on the verge of becoming.

paranoid
09-27-2010, 10:26 PM
This just came on in the car on my way to work today, so I will appreciate as well. As an alternative pop rock record, MSOTS is pretty good. But as a lasting document of what Zwan was actually doing that time, it's woefully inadequate. Jesus I/MSOTS is the only song on the album that really even comes close to capturing what worked about them.

If that record came out today you'd be jizzing all over it and defending it to the death. stop trying to act like you can have somewhat of a negative opinion too.

danondorf
09-27-2010, 11:07 PM
Here's the vbr mp3s of the MSotS vinyl rip I encoded myself for personal use...
2003 Mary Star Of The Sea (vinyl).zip (http://www.mediafire.com/?wlyd93ro84c2s1m)

Awesome. Thanks.

vbshlofbvgos
09-28-2010, 02:55 AM
paranoid hates him some corganist don't he

soniclovenoize
09-28-2010, 02:22 PM
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