View Full Version : Had MCIS been released one track at a time


paranoid
09-14-2010, 07:15 PM
about every 1.5 months.. what would be though about it?

And this is not comparing Teargarden to MCIS.. Teargarden is garbage so far, no matter how it's released. I'm just seeing how some would react to something like WOCOAN or Love after waiting a whole month for a new song.

Rider
09-14-2010, 07:23 PM
about every 1.5 months.. what would be though about it?

And this is not comparing Teargarden to MCIS.. Teargarden is garbage so far, no matter how it's released. I'm just seeing how some would react to something like WOCOAN or Love after waiting a whole month for a new song.


This is a horrible way to do any project. Unless maybe it was some kind of grand concept tied to an ARG. But this waiting months for track after track, tracks being delayed...

Maybe if it was actually being done in intelligent way it could build some excitement. Build some mystery or excitement, this project just seems like a lame disorganized mess with no real direction or thought.

paranoid
09-14-2010, 07:27 PM
it was originally supposed to be a song every two weeks. that may have worked. we'd be a few eps in by now. but this is nuts. almost a year since a song for a son was released, and looking back on it a year later it sounds like a waste. I don't think this will pan out well in the end (if it's seen through).

Rider
09-14-2010, 07:34 PM
It's just one insipid uninspired song after another. Even the songs that are almost good are bland and formulaic.

So right now he expects the fans to be excited and sit on the edge of their seats for god knows how many years for album full of bland songs.

paranoid
09-14-2010, 07:37 PM
the future doesn't look so promising either, if my love is winter or those sound check songs are anything to go by.

wHATcOLOR
09-14-2010, 07:38 PM
i think mellon collie is unbelievably good, but i don't think i would have been able to care long enough to see it through, had it been released that way. ...maybe at 16 years old i would have, but it's hard to put myself into that mindset. to keep people holding on for that long, when what they're holding on for is 1 song, just makes me feel fatigue thinking about it. whereas, drop into their laps a body of work, and that sustains interest for quite a while

slunken
09-14-2010, 07:42 PM
Or for that matter what if Machina 2 was released one song at a time from 2000 until 2005?

Rider
09-14-2010, 07:52 PM
If you look at the tracklist for the vinyl version of MCIS and assume Billy would have made similar changes to the track listing if he was leaking it slowly as a series of EP's I think we all might have much diffrent opion of MCIS.

Vinyl version
Side one – Dawn
"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" – 2:52
"Tonight, Tonight" – 4:14
"Thirty-Three" – 4:10
"In the Arms of Sleep" – 4:12
"Take Me Down" (Iha) – 2:52
Side two – Tea Time
"Jellybelly" – 3:01
"Bodies" – 4:12
"To Forgive" – 4:17
"Here Is No Why" – 3:45
"Porcelina of the Vast Oceans" – 9:21
Side three – Dusk
"Bullet with Butterfly Wings" – 4:18
"Thru the Eyes of Ruby" – 7:38
"Muzzle" – 3:44
"Galapogos" – 4:47
"Tales of a Scorched Earth" – 3:46
Side four – Twilight
"1979" – 4:25
"Beautiful" – 4:18
"Cupid de Locke" – 2:50
"By Starlight" – 4:48
"We Only Come Out at Night" – 4:05
Side five – Midnight
"Where Boys Fear to Tread" – 4:22
"Zero" – 2:41
"Fuck You (An Ode to No One)" – 4:51
"Love" – 4:21
"X.Y.U." – 7:07
Side six – Starlight
"Stumbleine" – 2:54
"Lily (My One and Only)" – 3:31
"Tonite Reprise" – 2:40
"Farewell and Goodnight" (Corgan/Iha) – 4:22
"Infinite Sadness" – 4:02


Imagine waiting months to hear all the songs on side four. I probably would have moved on at that point.

soniclovenoize
09-14-2010, 08:08 PM
You guys are missing that the point of all this one-at-a-time bullshit is:
A) It's a throwback to the singles-oriented marketing in the Record Industry of the 1950s and early 1960s, before the Industry evolved to marketing album-oriented-rock. What he's doing, this is what artists did 50 years ago. The fucking Zombies only had one album!
B) Corgan's betting on that this will be the wave of the future in regaurds to marketing digital downloads during the collapse of the Recording Industry as we know it, and he's trying to be ahead of the times. As I had said in another thread, other big bands (namely Modest Mouse and Radiohead) have suggested to stop doing LPs and focus on EPs, as it now seems it's easier to market now...

So with that in mind, I don't think MCIS could have been released one-at-a-time because the market for mainstream music in the mid 90s was still to promote a singular album with a number of singles on it for several years. I know most of you guys think this is solid retarded what Corgan is doing, but honestly, the time is right for this. If the songs themselves weren't toally cheesey and sub-par, I think this might have payed-off in a year.

paranoid
09-14-2010, 08:20 PM
You guys are missing that the point of all this one-at-a-time bullshit is:
A) It's a throwback to the singles-oriented marketing in the Record Industry of the 1950s and early 1960s, before the Industry evolved to marketing album-oriented-rock. What he's doing, this is what artists did 50 years ago. The fucking Zombies only had one album!
B) Corgan's betting on that this will be the wave of the future in regaurds to marketing digital downloads during the collapse of the Recording Industry as we know it, and he's trying to be ahead of the times. As I had said in another thread, other big bands (namely Modest Mouse and Radiohead) have suggested to stop doing LPs and focus on EPs, as it now seems it's easier to market now...

So with that in mind, I don't think MCIS could have been released one-at-a-time because the market for mainstream music in the mid 90s was still to promote a singular album with a number of singles on it for several years. I know most of you guys think this is solid retarded what Corgan is doing, but honestly, the time is right for this. If the songs themselves weren't toally cheesey and sub-par, I think this might have payed-off in a year.

I agree with all of this, but the main thing you need to make music marketable is QUALITY. Billy can claim he's ahead of the times or of the times all he wants, but the music is forgettable and will not be remembered. What's going to happen is some other band is going to follow this concept, but the music will be fucking great and they'll get all the credit.

wHATcOLOR
09-14-2010, 08:23 PM
, other big bands (namely Modest Mouse and Radiohead) have suggested to stop doing LPs and focus on EPs, as it now seems it's easier to market now...


wtf is the difference btwn lp and ep anyhow?

also, grandpa, thanks for the history lesson. who the hell are the zombies

soniclovenoize
09-14-2010, 08:31 PM
I agree with all of this, but the main thing you need to make music marketable is QUALITY. Billy can claim he's ahead of the times or of the times all he wants, but the music is forgettable and will not be remembered. What's going to happen is some other band is going to follow this concept, but the music will be fucking great and they'll get all the credit.

Oh, I agree. That's what I said, right? "If it wasn't for the cheesy sub-par songs..." Yeah. I mean, What I've always loved about MCIS was I felt all 28 songs were so great in their own right. So far, 0/6 of the Teargarden are... So yeah. Good plan, bad product.

wtf is the difference btwn lp and ep anyhow?

also, grandpa, thanks for the history lesson. who the hell are the zombies

Google (http://www.google.com)

Rider
09-14-2010, 08:56 PM
You guys are missing that the point of all this one-at-a-time bullshit is:
A) It's a throwback to the singles-oriented marketing in the Record Industry of the 1950s and early 1960s, before the Industry evolved to marketing album-oriented-rock. What he's doing, this is what artists did 50 years ago. The fucking Zombies only had one album!


In the 50's and 60's bands would have 5-6 singles out within weeks of each other and put out multiple albums in one year. For example Elvis put out 14 singles, 9 EPs, and 2 albums in 1956. If Billys goal is to try to replicate the prealbum style of releasing music he is failing miserably.

EyesOfAJackal
09-14-2010, 09:09 PM
In the 50's and 60's bands would have 5-6 singles out within weeks of each other and put out multiple albums in one year. For example Elvis put out 14 singles, 9 EPs, and 2 albums in 1956. If Billys goal is to try to replicate the prealbum style of releasing music he is failing miserably.

I'm pretty sure Elvis had folks writing at least some of the songs for him, but point taken.

soniclovenoize
09-14-2010, 09:23 PM
In the 50's and 60's bands would have 5-6 singles out within weeks of each other and put out multiple albums in one year. For example Elvis put out 14 singles, 9 EPs, and 2 albums in 1956. If Billys goal is to try to replicate the prealbum style of releasing music he is failing miserably.

Yeah, I agree. Corgan failed at that one. One song per month, huh?

Rider
09-14-2010, 09:46 PM
I'm pretty sure Elvis had folks writing at least some of the songs for him, but point taken.

Then don't try to replicate something you can't do. Don't say you want to recreate the excitement of the 50s and 60's single album cycle if you can only put out 6 songs a year. Also the problem is not that he has not written songs we all know the man has dozens of quality songs he has never released he just spends so much time on each horrible song that it is taking for ever.

stripes
09-14-2010, 09:49 PM
I would fucking hate it

slunken
09-14-2010, 10:12 PM
THEN JUST RELEASE 7" SINGLES - TWO SONGS AT A TIME. STOP HALF-ASSING EVERYTHING BILLS.

slunken
09-14-2010, 10:14 PM
Also, soniclovenoise, this is like the 2nd time you've mentioned "what you're all forgetting is..." or "what you all fail to see is..."

DON'T TELL ME WHAT I'VE FORGOTTEN OR HAVE OR HAVE NOT FAILED TO SEE!!!

slunken
09-14-2010, 10:15 PM
I'M MAD AT SOMETHING ELSE RIGHT NOW!!

arCHI
09-15-2010, 12:01 AM
In the 50's and 60's bands would have 5-6 singles out within weeks of each other and put out multiple albums in one year. For example Elvis put out 14 singles, 9 EPs, and 2 albums in 1956. If Billys goal is to try to replicate the prealbum style of releasing music he is failing miserably.

also, the whole principle of singles involved the radio; so while you awaited one bands single there were all sorts of other bands producing their own singles in the mean time. to me, releasing a single song for download on the website is so isolated. its disconnected from anything else that is going on, and its just boring. its not like billy just heard someone else's new single and is trying to top it. he's just in his own little world plodding along, which might be fine if he at least had to try to situate his songs amongst themselves in the context of an album.

it all seems so meaningless and pedestrian.

Ihaguitar
09-15-2010, 03:13 AM
The world is changing, so let's go back to the tactics of the 1950s....yeah surely that's going to work...

It's lame and he's only doing it because he cant face having another album lampooned by critics.

Cool As Ice Cream
09-15-2010, 03:16 AM
what would be though about it?

nice montyism. although "what would be think about it" is probably more correct.

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 06:38 AM
Also, soniclovenoise, this is like the 2nd time you've mentioned "what you're all forgetting is..." or "what you all fail to see is..."

DON'T TELL ME WHAT I'VE FORGOTTEN OR HAVE OR HAVE NOT FAILED TO SEE!!!

+rep

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 06:41 AM
also, the whole principle of singles involved the radio; so while you awaited one bands single there were all sorts of other bands producing their own singles in the mean time. to me, releasing a single song for download on the website is so isolated. its disconnected from anything else that is going on, and its just boring. its not like billy just heard someone else's new single and is trying to top it. he's just in his own little world plodding along, which might be fine if he at least had to try to situate his songs amongst themselves in the context of an album.

it all seems so meaningless and pedestrian.

Internet is the new radio.

Cool As Ice Cream
09-15-2010, 06:44 AM
I know most of you guys think this is solid retarded what Corgan is doing, but honestly, the time is right for this. If the songs themselves weren't toally cheesey and sub-par, I think this might have payed-off in a year.

payed off? free downloads?

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 06:45 AM
payed off? free downloads?

That's right fucko. Deal with it.

Tearing apart grammer & spellign is juts a sign that yuo have nothign of value to contribute.

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 06:50 AM
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand say something clever, I'll give you a +rep immediatly.

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 07:04 AM
Had MCIS been released... 09-15-2010 07:02 AM Cool As Ice Cream stop posting about rep, cunt

Haha you pussy! :D

Cool As Ice Cream
09-15-2010, 07:20 AM
it's in the rules.

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 07:25 AM
it's in the rules.

It's in the rules.

Cool As Ice Cream
09-15-2010, 07:26 AM
yes, that's right.

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 07:27 AM
You follow the rules? What a pussy.

mickyshambles
09-15-2010, 07:34 AM
i need a dump.

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 07:35 AM
Is this seriously a rule? That's gay. Blast a newb, be an asshole, post off-topic, do what you want. But whatever you do DON'T TALK ABOUT REP!

Cruiser
09-15-2010, 07:35 AM
also, the whole principle of singles involved the radio; so while you awaited one bands single there were all sorts of other bands producing their own singles in the mean time. to me, releasing a single song for download on the website is so isolated.

But remember, people generally don't listen to the radio much anymore... mp3 players/iPods are the new radio. So releasing mp3s of the songs now is pretty much the same as putting them out on the radio circa early/mid 90s.

I think what Billy's doing is pretty interesting. I think he needs to do one of two things, though:

1) If he's really abandoning the album concept, he needs to do this in his songwriting, too. He can't keep justifying mediocre or bland songs by saying they're part of something greater. He needs to release all the A-Level songs he keeps talking about and push himself to write more A-Level material if he's truly aiming at a singles-oriented method of releasing music.

2) If he's going to stick with the E.P. concept and wants some of the weaker/less memorable songs in there because they fit within the context of the E.P., he needs to release full E.P.s at once instead of track by track. I'm sure if we had the proper tracklisting with Spangled falling properly in context, people would at least be more forgiving of it, if not more enthusiastic about it.

For the record, I'm quite excited about Teargarden. I've enjoyed the music so far (albeit not as much as I enjoy other SP records), and I appreciate Billy's efforts to explore different musical influences and styles. I also support him in his claim that he's not willing to put himself through the things he had to go through to create some of his more respected music. But I think, since Teargarden is supposed to be an ongoing, organic process, he should take this time to re-evaluate his game plan... changing the release structure could be just as effective as changing his musical approach.

Cool As Ice Cream
09-15-2010, 07:35 AM
Is this seriously a rule? That's gay. Blast a newb, be an asshole, post off-topic, do what you want. But whatever you do DON'T TALK ABOUT REP!
you're doing it again.

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 07:37 AM
You're doing it again.

Cool As Ice Cream
09-15-2010, 07:38 AM
i stand corrected.

mickyshambles
09-15-2010, 07:41 AM
and the winner is...

mickyshambles
09-15-2010, 07:44 AM
chronicloveboize!
http://www.midwestwrestling.com/images9/Bertha_Faye_WWF_Womens.jpg

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 07:48 AM
i stand corrected.

That was clever. You win!

Sonic Johnny
09-15-2010, 09:01 AM
wtf is the difference btwn lp and ep anyhow?


yeah seriously. It's the 21st fucking century. Release something, don't call it either of those things. Some of my favourite records are the ones that blur the line from long EP to short LP, but essentially function as both, (Spiderland and Pinkerton are both good examples of this)

Ihaguitar
09-15-2010, 09:20 AM
yeah seriously. It's the 21st fucking century. Release something, don't call it either of those things. Some of my favourite records are the ones that blur the line from long EP to short LP, but essentially function as both, (Spiderland and Pinkerton are both good examples of this)

Originally an EP was just an extended single with more than one b-side, usually about 4 tracks total. The lead track was considered the most important one and the one which sold the record. I dont think Spiderland or Pinkerton qualify, they're just short albums.

dustrock
09-15-2010, 09:29 AM
One difference, as noted, is that with MCIS we'd be getting MCIS, Tonight Tonight, Jellybelly & Zero or 33 and Take Me Down, rather than Song for a Song, WWMM, Stitch and Astral Planes.

I'd probably stick around for a while if he was pumping out songs of that calibre.

And if it actually was one song per month, the TBK project might be bearable anyway. We're a year in and we would have 12 songs instead of 6.

Anyway, I made my thoughts clear on the o-board and apparently coolasicecream thinks I'm whining or something....

Cool As Ice Cream
09-15-2010, 09:36 AM
Anyway, I made my thoughts clear on the o-board and apparently coolasicecream thinks I'm whining or something....

you started a petition.

seriously.

Spira|_
09-15-2010, 09:49 AM
Releasing one song at the time has the risk of it is subject to a deep and well focused criticism. And by other side the fans create very strong expectations about the next song, in other words they come much more exigent.

Ihaguitar
09-15-2010, 09:53 AM
Releasing one song at the time has the risk of it is subject to a deep and well focused criticism. And by other side the fans create very strong expectations about the next song, in other words they come much more exigent.

Well focused? I dont think so. It runs the risk of diffusing slowly through the internet like a series of farts escaping from under a duvet over a period of a few hours. It will go largely unnoticed, bar perhaps one or two real stinkers.

dustrock
09-15-2010, 10:01 AM
you started a petition.

seriously.

it was originally supposed to be a play off of Monte's "petition to have EMI release the Gish box set!" thread but no one got the reference.

I didn't think anyone would believe it was a serious petition that I was going to twitter billy about. Although....

Spira|_
09-15-2010, 10:09 AM
Well focused? I dont think so. It runs the risk of diffusing slowly through the internet like a series of farts escaping from under a duvet over a period of a few hours. It will go largely unnoticed, bar perhaps one or two real stinkers.

yeah, for the fans. We have like 1 or 2 months to elaborate critics about one only song.


I realized by myself I was never evaluating each layer of a song individually like now, e.g.:
- vocals
- drums
- synts
- keys
- background-vocals
- guitars' riffs
- guitars' effects
- that weird sound you listened minute 2:07
- that outro
- that progression from intro to verse
etc etc

You pay attention and make your critics of each second of the song almost.


When you have an album most of this details are hidden by better songs/or parts of.

cork_soaker
09-15-2010, 10:28 AM
that; was a trane-wreck of! a post

Ihaguitar
09-15-2010, 10:29 AM
yeah, for the fans. We have like 1 or 2 months to elaborate critics about one only song.


I realized by myself I was never evaluating each layer of a song individually like now, e.g.:
- vocals
- drums
- synts
- keys
- background-vocals
- guitars' riffs
- guitars' effects
- that weird sound you listened minute 2:07
- that outro
- that progression from intro to verse
etc etc

You pay attention and make your critics of each second of the song almost.


When you have an album most of this details are hidden by better songs/or parts of.

No I find when I actually LIKE the songs I evaluate the parts more. I've listened to Siamese Dream probably over 1000 times. I wouldnt listen to the Teargarden songs more than once or twice so far, they arent good enough for me to spend my time on.

Billy's just farting in the wind.

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 11:15 AM
Billy's just farting in the wind.

EP 7, track 3.

Astur
09-15-2010, 12:00 PM
"farting in the wind", i like that concept

soniclovenoize
09-15-2010, 01:57 PM
# The new track Farting in the Wind is rockin! i can't wait until sept 2011 to put it out. all you hipsters and bloggers will smell the real power of hope, god and positive energy. mike really nailed that 4/4 beat this time too. 4 minutes ago via txt

Rider
09-15-2010, 05:27 PM
yeah seriously. It's the 21st fucking century. Release something, don't call it either of those things. Some of my favourite records are the ones that blur the line from long EP to short LP, but essentially function as both, (Spiderland and Pinkerton are both good examples of this)


Zero single comes to mind.

Ihaguitar
09-15-2010, 05:55 PM
Zero single comes to mind.

Zero single is an EP. Quite a long EP because of the number of b-sides tacked on and of course Pistachio Medley.