View Full Version : SP time signatures


aomb1979
09-05-2010, 03:02 AM
Was talking to my brother about this today.

Is there anything that isn't in 4/4?
There has to be a song that's at least partially in 3/4

TuralyonW3
09-05-2010, 03:31 AM
set the ray to jerry

TuralyonW3
09-05-2010, 03:31 AM
pomp & circumstance

TuralyonW3
09-05-2010, 03:35 AM
the bells

soniclovenoize
09-05-2010, 03:55 AM
Geek USA

soniclovenoize
09-05-2010, 03:55 AM
Once Upon A Time

whir
09-05-2010, 03:55 AM
The part in Quiet after the solo is in 3/4. There is also a few 3/4 measures in Thru the Eyes of Ruby ("And with this ring..."). Sweet Sweet is in 12/8. In the Arms of Sleep is in 6/8 if i remember correctly. Etc.

TuralyonW3
09-05-2010, 03:58 AM
Geek USA

nope, always 4/4

TuralyonW3
09-05-2010, 04:00 AM
Once Upon A Time

could just be 4/4 with triplets

TuralyonW3
09-05-2010, 04:01 AM
The part in Quiet after the solo is in 3/4. There is also a few 3/4 measures in Thru the Eyes of Ruby ("And with this ring..."). Sweet Sweet is in 12/8. In the Arms of Sleep is in 6/8 if i remember correctly. Etc.

good call on quiet and that section of ruby...arms of sleep, like once upon a time, could also be 4/4 with triplets though.

Monet LSD
09-05-2010, 04:33 AM
There is also a few 3/4 measures in Thru the Eyes of Ruby ("And with this ring...").

what? you sure about that?

Monet LSD
09-05-2010, 04:40 AM
wow. never noticed that before but that spot sounds more 2/4-ish to me.

good call for sure.

redbull
09-05-2010, 04:47 AM
suffer is in 12/8 i think

Sonic Johnny
09-05-2010, 05:44 AM
could just be 4/4 with triplets

I'm playing some streaming audio at the mo so i'm not going to bother checking, but i'm pretty sure Once Upon A Time is just lightly swung 4/4

Ihaguitar
09-05-2010, 06:13 AM
How do you figure this out?

Sonic Johnny
09-05-2010, 06:22 AM
you learn to count to 4. If counting to 4 doesn't work, try 3, 5, 6 and 8 till something works.

whir
09-05-2010, 06:26 AM
>There is also a few 3/4 measures in Thru the Eyes of Ruby ("And with this ring...").
>what? you sure about that?

Yes, I have the official MCIS tab book. :) This part has like one 4/4 measure then one 3/4 measure, etc.

Edit: I just checked the book and there is actually just one 3/4 measure, the one after "And with this ring I wed thee true"). I thought there were at least two.

Luke de Spa
09-05-2010, 06:26 AM
I'm playing some streaming audio at the mo so i'm not going to bother checking, but i'm pretty sure Once Upon A Time is just lightly swung 4/4

nah iz 12/8

Luke de Spa
09-05-2010, 06:31 AM
set the ray to jerry

eh?

whir
09-05-2010, 06:50 AM
I forgot about Spaceboy, which has also a few 3/4 measures (as well as one 2/4, 2/8 and 3/8!).

Luke de Spa
09-05-2010, 06:52 AM
obscured

and let's not forget killer latter-day material like tarantula, united states, pomp & circumstances and superchrist

exactlythesame
09-05-2010, 09:47 AM
it never seemed like time signatures were very important in the songwriting process: he just wrote whatever seemed to fit instead of choosing the right one

Sonic Johnny
09-05-2010, 10:00 AM
Tarantula is one of the classiest examples of a rock shuffle ever put to tape.

eyesofruby32
09-05-2010, 11:43 AM
Gish has at least a couple of tunes that switch up times dramatically. Suffer and Window Paine come to mind. Window Paine has a nice bolero part, but there are all kinds of things going on in that song anyway. It would take me an hour to break down all the changes.

Ihaguitar
09-05-2010, 01:17 PM
you learn to count to 4. If counting to 4 doesn't work, try 3, 5, 6 and 8 till something works.

ok I can count to 4 so now what?

Rocket Launcher
09-05-2010, 01:32 PM
The part in Quiet after the solo is in 3/4. There is also a few 3/4 measures in Thru the Eyes of Ruby ("And with this ring..."). Sweet Sweet is in 12/8. In the Arms of Sleep is in 6/8 if i remember correctly. Etc.

sweet sweet is 6/8. But nice findings besides. I barely paid attention to the measure.

"With You" is also 6/8 I think

pineapple*soul
09-05-2010, 01:35 PM
Tarantula is one of the classiest examples of a rock shuffle ever put to tape.

agreed.

Ihaguitar
09-05-2010, 02:20 PM
What's a rock shuffle?

paranoid
09-05-2010, 02:25 PM
during the intro of here is no why, the measure before the vocals kick in is in 7/8.

he pretty much writes everything in either 4/4 or 6/8.

Pizza Club
09-05-2010, 03:29 PM
Wound demo

Ihaguitar
09-05-2010, 03:52 PM
There are various types of time signatures, depending on whether the music follows simple rhythms or involves unusual shifting tempos, including: simple (such as 3/4 or 4/4), compound (e.g., 9/8 or 12/8), complex (e.g., 5/4 or 7/8), mixed (e.g., 5/8, 3/8 or 6/8, 3/4), additive (e.g., (3+2+3)/8), fractional (e.g., 2/4), irrational meters (e.g., 3/10 or 5/24), or other meters.

eyesofruby32
09-05-2010, 05:30 PM
ok I can count to 4 so now what?

Think almost in terms of beats (every hit of the kick drum, hand claps, i.e.) as syllables. In a song that is in straight 4/4, each measure will have 4 bars- the same rhythmic figure repeated four times. One bar equals a rhythmic sequence/chord progression that could have 1 chord or 15; the band can play however many chords it can. The same applies to other time signatures. If you want to hear stuff with some odd time signatures, check out Soundgarden, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Yes, Rush, etc.

T&T
09-05-2010, 05:43 PM
wow i'm so amazed by the smashing pumpkins.

Ihaguitar
09-05-2010, 05:46 PM
Think almost in terms of beats (every hit of the kick drum, hand claps, i.e.) as syllables. In a song that is in straight 4/4, each measure will have 4 bars- the same rhythmic figure repeated four times. One bar equals a rhythmic sequence/chord progression that could have 1 chord or 15; the band can play however many chords it can. The same applies to other time signatures. If you want to hear stuff with some odd time signatures, check out Soundgarden, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Yes, Rush, etc.

Cool. How about Atheist? Do they have unusual time signatures?

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exactlythesame
09-05-2010, 06:24 PM
Think almost in terms of beats (every hit of the kick drum, hand claps, i.e.) as syllables. In a song that is in straight 4/4, each measure will have 4 bars- the same rhythmic figure repeated four times. One bar equals a rhythmic sequence/chord progression that could have 1 chord or 15; the band can play however many chords it can. The same applies to other time signatures. If you want to hear stuff with some odd time signatures, check out Soundgarden, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Yes, Rush, etc.

or you can skip all that and listen to dream theater

aomb1979
09-05-2010, 07:19 PM
"The Dance of Eternity" by Dream Theater. This instrumental contains mixtures of faster and slower beat groupings in 8, 7, 6, 5, and 4. It goes through 104 time signature changes in just over six minutes"


^^^
Stupid.

Pizza Club
09-06-2010, 12:40 AM
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There are two main guitars (one played by Robert Fripp the other by Adrain Belew) and often each of them are playing in a different time signature, giving the song a chaotic and intense feel. Many times the guitars play similar patterns, but one drops a note making them go either out of sync or change time signatures. Even though there are often several time signatures going on, the drums are playing in 4/4 over the guitars to highlight the "dance beat". The song goes through time signatures such as 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 4/4, 3/4, 11/16, 15/16, and 10/8.

slunken
09-06-2010, 01:32 AM
This fucking thread is retarded. "Oh look - I can post bands that incorporate time signatures that are out of the ordinary."

Are you guys fucking kidding me? Seriously? Who the fuck cares? Is it really that out of the ordinary?

Gish08
09-06-2010, 02:01 AM
i think it's safe to say the majority of Billy's work is 4/4

Dogfighter28
09-06-2010, 02:16 AM
There's a lot of people who can't count in this thread

Ihaguitar
09-06-2010, 03:05 AM
There's a lot of people who can't count in this thread

Unless you are a musician I dont think it's that easy to work out.

Dogfighter28
09-06-2010, 03:10 AM
I am a musician and it is that easy to work out

whir
09-06-2010, 03:27 AM
sweet sweet is 6/8. But nice findings besides. I barely paid attention to the measure.

No, Sweet Sweet is in 12/8. Just check the official tab book.

http://users.skynet.be/fa224292/sweet.jpg

Ihaguitar
09-06-2010, 03:58 AM
So what doies 12/8 mean compared to 4/4? Two extra beats per bar, at a higher tempo?

redbull
09-06-2010, 04:04 AM
not sure if you're trolling or not

but it means 8 beats to a bar, and 12 notes split evenly within that. (or: four beats of three notes each)

Ihaguitar
09-06-2010, 04:37 AM
ok, that's kind of complicated for my brain right now.

Luke de Spa
09-06-2010, 07:37 AM
4/4 is

ONE and TWO and THREE and FOUR and

whereas 12/8 is like 4/4 but with each beat broken into of three notes instead of two

ONE and a TWO and a THREE and a FOUR and a

read them aloud – repeat each a few times – and it'll ALL MAKE SENSE

soniclovenoize
09-06-2010, 08:37 AM
nope, always 4/4

Ah, yeah, I was thinking @ 2:58... They're just jumping the gun on the next beat, and it always threw me off.

exactlythesame
09-06-2010, 11:05 AM
"The Dance of Eternity" by Dream Theater. This instrumental contains mixtures of faster and slower beat groupings in 8, 7, 6, 5, and 4. It goes through 104 time signature changes in just over six minutes"


^^^
Stupid.

you're just jealous

duovamp
09-06-2010, 11:11 AM
Any of you guys ever heard of Behold the Arctopus?

eyesofruby32
09-06-2010, 11:19 AM
No. But I like the name.

T&T
09-06-2010, 05:51 PM
LOL at the righteous music theory scholars.
many time signatures are interchangeable
sweet sweet could have very easily been a 4/4 with a triplets

get out your metronomes and realize these two are exactly the same:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png/350px-12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png

eyesofruby32
09-06-2010, 06:03 PM
LOL at the righteous music theory scholars.
many time signatures are interchangeable
sweet sweet could have very easily been a 4/4 with a triplets

get out your metronomes and realize these two are exactly the same:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png/350px-12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png

Hey, my explanation wasn't bad though. after 4/4 and 3/4, time gets murky to me. I just focus on my drummer when we practice. This guy loves syncopation and helps me write in odd time. He's made me a better guitarist by forcing me into strums and leads that are tight to the rhythm.

duovamp
09-06-2010, 06:07 PM
That sounds hella, bro. What kind of music do you play?

soniclovenoize
09-06-2010, 06:09 PM
LOL at the righteous music theory scholars.
many time signatures are interchangeable
sweet sweet could have very easily been a 4/4 with a triplets

get out your metronomes and realize these two are exactly the same:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png/350px-12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png

I want to agree with you here (see my above posts) but this has NOT been the first time I've been corrected on this...

Me: "Oh, I see, you're swithing to 3/4 here!"
Band member: "Um, no, this is still 4/4 but with triplets..."
Me: "Oh, um, yeah, I get it..."

:p

eyesofruby32
09-06-2010, 06:09 PM
or you can skip all that and listen to dream theater

Dream Theater= dork rock.

duovamp
09-06-2010, 06:11 PM
lol James Labrie

eyesofruby32
09-06-2010, 06:17 PM
That sounds hella, bro. What kind of music do you play?

Haha... Everything from jangly folk rock, to hard rock, psychedelia, fusion-like jazz, and Chicago/Texas/British blues type-stuff. Also been throwing in Indian raga touches here and there.

eyesofruby32
09-06-2010, 06:19 PM
I want to agree with you here (see my above posts) but this has NOT been the first time I've been corrected on this...

Me: "Oh, I see, you're swithing to 3/4 here!"
Band member: "Um, no, this is still 4/4 but with triplets..."
Me: "Oh, um, yeah, I get it..."

:p

Been there.

eyesofruby32
09-06-2010, 06:20 PM
Dream Theater= dork rock.

But Petrucci is a slammin' guitarist.

Luke de Spa
09-07-2010, 02:46 AM
LOL at the righteous music theory scholars.
many time signatures are interchangeable
sweet sweet could have very easily been a 4/4 with a triplets

get out your metronomes and realize these two are exactly the same:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png/350px-12-8_equals_4-4_drum_pattern.png

well no shit genius

but why would you go to the extra effort to transcribe the entire song like that? that's the point of compound time. that YOU DON'T HAVE TO

brendo_91
09-07-2010, 08:09 AM
maybe if you were swapping feel between sections and most of the song was in straight 4's?

cork_soaker
09-07-2010, 09:24 AM
swapping feel, mm

cork_soaker
09-07-2010, 09:25 AM
in 12/8 time

soniclovenoize
09-07-2010, 09:44 AM
swapping feel, mm

I like the feel of your beats, baby.

rudi
09-07-2010, 12:04 PM
people gettn worked up, shits gettn real

Rocket Launcher
09-07-2010, 01:44 PM
No, Sweet Sweet is in 12/8. Just check the official tab book.

http://users.skynet.be/fa224292/sweet.jpg

My bad. Thanks for the pic. I don't have the book, and I counted 6 eights into the measure.

whir
09-08-2010, 04:00 AM
My bad. Thanks for the pic. I don't have the book, and I counted 6 eights into the measure.

You're welcome! :) Well, it could technically be in 6/8 too, I think it makes more sense for this song to be in 12/8.

brendo_91
09-08-2010, 06:44 PM
its all to do with where the snare/accent lands. in sweet sweet, it's the 10th beat of a 12 beat cycle.

soniclovenoize
09-08-2010, 06:50 PM
its all to do with where the snare/accent lands. in sweet sweet, it's the 10th beat of a 12 beat cycle.

Or is it the 5th beat of a 6-beat cycle? ;)