View Full Version : How much do you believe Billy on the following subjects


paranoid
08-04-2010, 01:46 PM
seeing as we only ever get to hear his side of the story most of the time, of all the things he has said, what do you believe?

James Iha broke up the band:
James was lazy:
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together:
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help:
D'arcy was fired:
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival:
He fired Jimmy in 2009:
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being:
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material:
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000):

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other

T&T
08-04-2010, 02:08 PM
I believe him
he just leaves out the self depreciating comments.

RenewRevive
08-04-2010, 02:09 PM
James Iha broke up the band: no. as james said, only billy could do that.
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: no
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: yes, but only through a third party
He fired Jimmy in 2009: unsure, probably
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: no
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: well, yeah
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): no, dunno about gish, SD it is on record. mcis-machina, no.

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: no idea.

cork_soaker
08-04-2010, 02:11 PM
seeing as we only ever get to hear his side of the story most of the time, of all the things he has said, what do you believe?

James Iha broke up the band:
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together:
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help:
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival:
He fired Jimmy in 2009:
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being:
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material:
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000):

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other

:4
:3.9
:98.1%
:1/5
:thrix
:4
:4
:4

:4

Cade McNown
08-04-2010, 02:32 PM
James Iha broke up the band: probably
James was lazy: yes
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: doubtful
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: probably
D'arcy was fired: yes
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: not sincerely, though in some way, sure
He fired Jimmy in 2009: doubtful
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: who knows...
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: yes
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): yes

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: probably

TBK will keep getting better and the Spirits Songs were the worst new material he had written: doubtful

Corganist
08-04-2010, 02:50 PM
James Iha broke up the band:
If James hadn't been going through the motions in the final tour and acted like he wanted to be there, I believe Billy wouldn't have thought about making any desperate moves.

James was lazy:
Time has borne this one out hasn't it? Let It Come down came out more than a decade ago, and we're still waiting for the followup. The guy hasn't done much more than dabbled in music here and there since leaving SP.

He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together:
I don't believe this. I don't think they were soulmates or bosom buddies, but I think that for most of that time they were "work friends" at least.

D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help:
I believe it. Her leaving the band was really no surprise after the Arising tour where she was clearly on something and would openly bitch out Billy in front of fans on a nightly basis. And she went even further down the hole after leaving the band (getting arrested, hanging out with Mickey Rourke 10 years before it became cool again to do so, the plastic surgery). Clearly she needed help she wasn't getting.


D'arcy was fired:
Did Billy ever say this? Wouldn't surprise me if it was true though.

He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival:
I'm sure he did, albeit in some impersonal and disconnected way (e-mail, 3rd party contact, leaving a voicemail). I doubt he ever actually spoke to either of them and got their reasons for not wanting to do it.

He fired Jimmy in 2009: It was probably a "You can't quit because you're fired!" sort of thing.

Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being:
I don't think Jimmy is at mid-1990s levels of destructiveness, but I also tend to think that there's a lot about him that we don't know, and I think it's likely that Billy saw something specific that triggered that remark. It makes more sense than the "Billy turned on 'Jimmy the clean living family man' out of the blue" narrative that people like to fly here.

He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material:
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000):

The writing, I believe him. The recording, outside of Gish and SD, I don't.

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other
I believe it. Billy's accusations are pretty specific, and to the extent that the other members commented on them they really haven't done much to refute them. And I don't buy into the entire "high road" line where every person who has ever been slandered by Billy Corgan is somehow too good and pure of heart to come out and set the record straight or God forbid fight back.

jimmy drevpile
08-04-2010, 03:06 PM
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival:

Via an advert in the paper / Astral Projection. Yes.

Did he ever really want to be in band with again with people that; he was never really friends with, made a whooping "3%" contribution to the music, broke up the band, were lazy, mean spirited and all the rest? Nah, one fundamentally unhealthy human being was all he was ever really looking for.

paranoid
08-04-2010, 04:49 PM
hey corganist i didn't ask for a fucking novel. break it down please. you have until 6:30 eastern time to edit your post.

Pizza Club
08-04-2010, 05:00 PM
I believe him
he just leaves out the self depreciating comments.

.

Pizza Club
08-04-2010, 05:05 PM
If James hadn't been going through the motions in the final tour and acted like he wanted to be there, I believe Billy wouldn't have thought about making any desperate moves.



I'm pretty sure they made the decision to break up the band before the final tour and the recording of Machina.



James always appeared bored. If anything, I think it was the departure of one of his best friends that sealed the deal. If the band hadn't broken up, there's no way James would have been back for another album/tour.

redbull
08-04-2010, 05:20 PM
James Iha broke up the band: BS
James was lazy: maybe
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: BS
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: possible
D'arcy was fired: true
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: perhaps via myspace message
He fired Jimmy in 2009: true
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: BS
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: try 75
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): nah

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: nah

redbreegull
08-04-2010, 05:45 PM
James Iha broke up the band: no
James was lazy: maybe, but it seems more likely that Billy just didn't let him do much
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: horseshit
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: possibly
D'arcy was fired: this is true
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: yes, probably thru Jimmy
He fired Jimmy in 2009: yes
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: no
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: yes
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): the majority: yes, 99%: no

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: yes, bunch of indie freaks

applepwnz
08-04-2010, 05:49 PM
James Iha broke up the band: Nope
James was lazy: Probably
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: Nope
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: Probably
D'arcy was fired: Probably
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: Probably
He fired Jimmy in 2009: I think it was a "you can't quit! you're fired!" kind of thing
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: Not at all
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: Absolutely
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): Absolutely

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: 99% chance this is true

samuel redman
08-04-2010, 06:44 PM
[QUOTE=paranoid;3638676]

James Iha broke up the band: yes

James was lazy: yes

He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: i dont know

D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: yes

D'arcy was fired: hopefully

contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: who cares

He fired Jimmy in 2009: yes

Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: could be

He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: yes

he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): yes

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: yes

RenewRevive
08-04-2010, 07:08 PM
hey that was sneaky editing like that. okay amendment:

James was lazy: pretty much
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: yes
D'arcy was fired: doubtful, she quit for the sake of her health, just prior to getting busted for buying crack, right?

soniclovenoize
08-04-2010, 08:51 PM
James Iha broke up the band: NO
James was lazy: YES
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: NO
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: YES
D'arcy was fired: NO
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: YES
He fired Jimmy in 2009: YES
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: YES
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: YES
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): NO

the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other YES

Astur
08-04-2010, 11:00 PM
James Iha broke up the band: NO
James was lazy: YES
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: NO
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: YES
D'arcy was fired: NO
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: YES
He fired Jimmy in 2009: YES
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: YES
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: YES
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): NO

the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other YES

this except for Jimmy being destructive. That sounds to me like classic Corgan fecal babblings

BlissedandGone2
08-05-2010, 02:12 AM
James Iha broke up the band: No
James was lazy: Yes
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: No
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: Yes
D'arcy was fired: Yes
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: Eh maybe kinda
He fired Jimmy in 2009: No
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: No
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: Yes
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): Yes

the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: who cares?

TuralyonW3
08-05-2010, 02:31 AM
who gives a fuck

Starla
08-05-2010, 04:28 AM
Time has borne this one out hasn't it? Let It Come down came out more than a decade ago, and we're still waiting for the followup. The guy hasn't done much more than dabbled in music here and there since leaving SP.


.

He's worked on other projects and toured with APC. He was also in tinted windows. Yeah it's not alot, but I don't think James has proven himself to be lazy.

pale_princess
08-05-2010, 11:01 AM
James Iha broke up the band: only bill could do that
James was lazy: nope
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: utter crap
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: true
D'arcy was fired: she quit that bitch
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: nope. a newspaper ad, whining "I WANT MY BAND BACK, AND MY DREEEEEAAAMMMZZZ!!!1" =/= actual contact
He fired Jimmy in 2009: YOU CAN'T QUIT!!! UR FIRED!!!1
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: unlikely
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: what constitutes the "golden era"? i'd say 80% if we're talking sd-mcis including bsides
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): gish & sd, yes. the rest, shit

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: immoral. hah! pajo & paz fucked, but i doubt sweeney fucked either of them. heroin, don't know, don't care, but i'd probably need to be high to bear bill's wrath for a year

iPumpkin
08-05-2010, 11:09 AM
I believe all of it for the most part. The fact the no one has ever came out and vehemently denied any of this helps his case.

I'm sure you could make a list of other damaging thinks Bill has done to his career/life over the last 20+years though.

Order 66
08-05-2010, 12:29 PM
James Iha broke up the band: i do think james' general disinterest in the final years played a huge role.

James was lazy: i could tell in the machina era james wasnt really feeling it. so yeah i buy it

He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: i never heard this. hard to believe you could be in a band for with somebody for over a decade and not have some kind of comraderie.

D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: probably. bitch was a wreck

D'arcy was fired: probably. bitch was a wreck

He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: i havent heard this either.

He fired Jimmy in 2009: this is where things get weird. i still have no fucking clue what jimmy's departure was about. though i'm guessing they just got sick of each other

Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: sure doesnt seem that way from the outside. watched the drum clinic youtubes and interviews, seems like a great guy. but you never know what goes on behind closed doors.

He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: 99% may be a bit of an embellishment. but yes. this is no secret. billy does virtually all the work

he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): ditto. yes. of course its true.

the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: well what's weird is in, say, May of '03 billy was gushing over how much he adored his new bandmates. and then months later they're heroin addicts and whatnot. i really don't know. my guess is they never saw that much money before (zwan for them is still the commercial peak of their career. save for maybe paz) and probably couldn't handle it. so yeah, i buy it. ultimately

soniclovenoize
08-05-2010, 02:35 PM
this except for Jimmy being destructive. That sounds to me like classic Corgan fecal babblings

:cool:

Well, I say that Jimmy comment because he's an addict: I would believe he could still be displaying addict characteristics even though he isn't using. Corgan would in turn interpret that as "destructive behavior"... which it kinda is. Jimmy could very well be a "dry drunk" as they call it. Just because he isn't using, doesn't mean he's gotten help for the reason he was using in the first place.

Mike Byrne
08-05-2010, 05:52 PM
It's true. Trust me on this one, guys

FlspnutIsCool
08-05-2010, 06:00 PM
It's true. Trust me on this one, guys

holy shit guys mike byrne just posted on the site

pale_princess
08-05-2010, 06:39 PM
(zwan for them is still the commercial peak of their career. save for maybe paz)



isnt pajo in interpol now?

Grant V
08-05-2010, 07:01 PM
It's true. Trust me on this one, guys

care to share some details?

TuralyonW3
08-05-2010, 07:58 PM
If he plays his cards right this Mike Byrne troll has the capability of making netphorian troll history

Esty
08-06-2010, 01:11 AM
I believe all of it for the most part. The fact the no one has ever came out and vehemently denied any of this helps his case.

I'm sure you could make a list of other damaging thinks Bill has done to his career/life over the last 20+years though.

Yeah, because the best thing james/darcy want is to give a fame seeking sack of shit bill any fucking attention. They don't ever talk about sp at all from what I have seen. They don't want to, they moved the fuck on. They don't need the SP "name" in order for people to give a fuck about them.

Do you honestly think they don't have any stories to add about bill cheating on his wife, using drugs, and all sorts of shit?

Fuck off idiot.

chris1979
08-06-2010, 03:09 AM
It's true. Trust me on this one, guys

If this is really you Mike then...

You're doing an awesome job in the Pumpkins, wish I had your talent. Be warned though, Netphoria is a very dark place, many people here suck ;).

Gish08
08-06-2010, 09:48 AM
James Iha broke up the band: Not exclusively but he probably played a big role in doing so.

James was lazy: Outside of Gish and MCIS and maybe some Machina sessions, probably.

He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: Probably.

D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: Definitely.

D'arcy was fired: She walked off stage and said fuck it. Corgan with the damage control once more.

He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: Yes.

He fired Jimmy in 2009: Yes. What a cunt.

Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: No.

He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: Probably.

he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): Most likely.

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: Sweeney and Pajo, definitely. Paz seems like a hobag, too.

Mike Byrne
08-07-2010, 12:40 AM
If this is really you Mike then...

You're doing an awesome job in the Pumpkins, wish I had your talent. Be warned though, Netphoria is a very dark place, many people here suck ;).

Thanks for your warm welcome. It's always appreciated.

yoshinobu's revenge
08-07-2010, 01:25 AM
James Iha broke up the band: perhaps from BC's point of view. James wanted out and to Billy that meant the band had to be over.
James was lazy: compared to BC, sure.
He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: maybe not as close a friendship as BC wanted
D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: most addicts are mean spirited and refuse help when confronted. so, yes.
D'arcy was fired: not in the same way jimmy first was
He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: not seriously. maybe he called 1-800-JMES-IHA. maybe he called an agent and left a message.
He fired Jimmy in 2009: see "D'arcy was fired"
Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: is lance armstrong guilty of doping? i don't know, it's a tough one. jimmy has seemed so much more normal than any of the original members in recent years but he was also the wildest in his previous years. if pressed for an answer, i guess i'd say yes, but with the caveat that being fundamentally destructive doesn't mean it's uncontrolled.
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: depends what you mean by wrote and how you quantify 99%. he sure as hell wasn't responsible of 99% of mayonaise's actual playing track time. he has the vast majority of songwriting credits anyway tho so not sure why this would be controversial.
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): yes. he's controllling/a perfectionist about his music.

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: probably true if you take "immoral" to mean that they did drugs and fucked

rub_the_y
08-07-2010, 02:49 AM
James Iha broke up the band: False. James broke Billy's spirit, but Billy was the one who wanted the band to split.

James was lazy: No, just not OCD when it came to making music.

He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: Bullshit. The guy stuck it out with Billy as long as he could stand. Billy always fails to remind everyone of the hurtful and unforgivable things he has said about James.

D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: Maybe she wasn't ready for help. Clearly she is doing much better these days.

D'arcy was fired: I'm pretty sure D'arcy walked out. Billy's hesitation in wanting to talk about it should indicate some level of butthurt about it.

He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: Doubt it. An ad in the paper isn't making contact with someone.

He fired Jimmy in 2009: Jimmy quit, Billy told him "You can't quit, you're fired"

Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: Jimmy's wants and needs were different to Corgan's - whether they are destructive or not is subjective. Billy doesn't consider himself a destructive person either, but sprays shit at anyone who has ever bruised his ego and hasn't come crawling back.

He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: Doubtful. No one is that generous by letting others ride his coat tails for so damn long.

he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): Probably. He is a controlling douchebag after all. It probably would have sounded better with the others playing, all of their live shows were so much more amazing than any recorded track.

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: probably. His controlling dominance and temper was probably too hard to handle sober. Jimmy, a heroin addict, claims that he hasn't touched heroin for 10 years, so I find it pretty hard to believe that he would have been able to be around other users when he's trying to recover.

Second bonus: Mike Byrne is someone being a troll: Probably. If it's the real Mike Byrne, then all i have to say is that you're in for a hell of a ride and a hell of a fall. Don't say you weren't warned. Oh, and you're getting fat. Lay off the sugar, chubbs.

stumpycat
08-08-2010, 01:21 AM
James Iha broke up the band: False. James broke Billy's spirit, but Billy was the one who wanted the band to split.
Agree.

James was lazy: No, just not OCD when it came to making music.

Agree.

He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: Bullshit. The guy stuck it out with Billy as long as he could stand. Billy always fails to remind everyone of the hurtful and unforgivable things he has said about James.

Yeah.

D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: Maybe she wasn't ready for help. Clearly she is doing much better these days.
Agree.

D'arcy was fired: I'm pretty sure D'arcy walked out. Billy's hesitation in wanting to talk about it should indicate some level of butthurt about it.
Probably.

He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: Doubt it. An ad in the paper isn't making contact with someone.
Yeah, kind of, sort of.

He fired Jimmy in 2009: Jimmy quit, Billy told him "You can't quit, you're fired"

Most likely.

Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: Jimmy's wants and needs were different to Corgan's - whether they are destructive or not is subjective. Billy doesn't consider himself a destructive person either, but sprays shit at anyone who has ever bruised his ego and hasn't come crawling back.
That is sooo true about BC. Billy is throwing stones in a glass house. Jimmy seems like a fundamentally decent guy who has a predilection towards sensation seeking behaviors which can be taken to dangerous excess. I believe that he has made the deliberate effort to avoid taking part in these behaviors because of their experienced consequences and what that would mean for his life now.
He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: Doubtful. No one is that generous by letting others ride his coat tails for so damn long.
Having them there because they fulfill some need to maintain a particular band chemistry that had proven itself successful does not necessarily equate to the volume of their writing input. If BC is exaggerating here, I do not think it is by much.


he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): Probably. He is a controlling douchebag after all. It probably would have sounded better with the others playing, all of their live shows were so much more amazing than any recorded track.

Yes, up until that last part of your statement...WTF?! The Pumpkins, up until the late 90's, sounded best in studio. And much of that was played by Billy himself.

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: probably. His controlling dominance and temper was probably too hard to handle sober. Jimmy, a heroin addict, claims that he hasn't touched heroin for 10 years, so I find it pretty hard to believe that he would have been able to be around other users when he's trying to recover.

I dunno...but Billy comes off sounding like a judgmental hypocrite nonetheless.

Ihaguitar
08-08-2010, 07:07 AM
I dunno...but Billy comes off sounding like a judgmental hypocrite nonetheless.

God-fearers usually are.

Reyngel
08-08-2010, 10:49 PM
James Iha broke up the band: According to Billy's contradiction after the fact, only Billy himself had the power to break up the band. So a definite No.

James was lazy: It's hard to contribute when Billy's choosing to write 99% of the music. Billy chose controlled perfection over having the rest of the band in on the creative process. So No, James wasn't lazy. But he also didn't have much he was allowed to do.

He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: Bullshit. An immature claim made by an insecure Billy after fearing what we'd see of his destroying of the band's past image.

D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: Yep.

D'arcy was fired: No. I believe Darcy was talked to by the band about her cocaine habit, especially after Jimmy having just come back from his being fired for drugs. Darcy probably got defensive, which provoked Billy to get defensive back, and it became a mutual fight that led to a mutual walk-away.

He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: After placing the ad, yes. But before? No. He never wanted them back. He probably had some third party make a call after the ad had been placed. James even said himself he hadn't heard from Billy. And if you listen to what Jimmy's said about it, it all seems like Billy's fibbing about this quite extensively.

He fired Jimmy in 2009: Yes, but only because Jimmy spoke up about playing music that he thought was shallow and lifeless. Billy took offense, put Jimmy in the "you're not a supporter of mine" box, they had a fight over it, and it became a simultaneous "get the fuck out of here" / "i'm leaving." As Jimmy's said since, he moved on to play music that actually mattered to him.

Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: No way. He's been the only sane voice since 2000. Billy only said that to hit him below the belt out of fear of his fans turning on him.

He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: True. But that was by choice. Not circumstance.

he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): True. But again, it was by choice, not circumstance.

Bonus: the zwan people are immoral, took heroin and fucked each other: He was definitely telling the truth about this. Jimmy even seemed to confirm it. But what do you expect when you throw together a piece of shit group like Zwan?

paranoid
08-08-2010, 11:08 PM
:cool:

Well, I say that Jimmy comment because he's an addict: I would believe he could still be displaying addict characteristics even though he isn't using. Corgan would in turn interpret that as "destructive behavior"... which it kinda is. Jimmy could very well be a "dry drunk" as they call it. Just because he isn't using, doesn't mean he's gotten help for the reason he was using in the first place.

anyone who has been listening to an of his music, or listened to him speak over the past 5 or so years, you'd understand that he seems to have moved on from all of those demons and has started a new, happy life. Life Begins Again? all the other 'life spirit love energy' stuff he wrote about in blogs and interviews? On top of that, his ever growing musicianship and ability to play some incredible music? His drumming sounds, these days, like he's filled all the hours he used to spend hunting for/taking drugs with constant practice and refining (something billy doesn't seem to put enough energy into these days). It just doesn't line up with what billy said about him that one time in RS.

Also, so far I mostly agree with how reyngel (poster above) responded.

Ihaguitar
08-09-2010, 02:11 AM
How To Alienate Your Fans, by Bill Corgan....

CourtJaster
08-10-2010, 03:11 AM
I choose to lead from love, guys.

Corganist
08-10-2010, 04:04 AM
Jimmy, a heroin addict, claims that he hasn't touched heroin for 10 years, so I find it pretty hard to believe that he would have been able to be around other users when he's trying to recover.

Would that not be a pretty damn good reason that Billy might have been so pissed? I can't imagine that keeping Jimmy on the straight and narrow was an easy job, and having people in the band using around him probably made it that much harder.

anyone who has been listening to an of his music, or listened to him speak over the past 5 or so years, you'd understand that he seems to have moved on from all of those demons and has started a new, happy life. Life Begins Again? all the other 'life spirit love energy' stuff he wrote about in blogs and interviews? On top of that, his ever growing musicianship and ability to play some incredible music? His drumming sounds, these days, like he's filled all the hours he used to spend hunting for/taking drugs with constant practice and refining (something billy doesn't seem to put enough energy into these days). It just doesn't line up with what billy said about him that one time in RS.

The guy drummed the Siamese Dream album tracks literally in his spare time between disappearing for days on benders. If that doesn't prove that musicianship level has zero relation to sobriety, then I don't know what does. I think you're reaching if you're really using that as the proof that Billy's allegations are totally unfounded.

I still maintain that there's a lot we don't know about Jimmy Chamberlin. His mid-1990s public persona never screamed "self-destructive heroin addict," so I see no reason why we'd rely on appearances today either. There is certainly a lot more going on behind the scenes than what little we get from what Jimmy says at drum clinics. I hope Billy was blowing smoke in RS, but I don't see how given Jimmy's history that anyone can completely discount Billy's accusations. Seriously, would anyone here be terribly surprised if it were ever revealed that Jimmy relapsed in some way? I can see us all being sickened and disappointed by it, but not surprised.

paranoid
08-10-2010, 09:53 AM
Would that not be a pretty damn good reason that Billy might have been so pissed? I can't imagine that keeping Jimmy on the straight and narrow was an easy job, and having people in the band using around him probably made it that much harder.



The guy drummed the Siamese Dream album tracks literally in his spare time between disappearing for days on benders. If that doesn't prove that musicianship level has zero relation to sobriety, then I don't know what does. I think you're reaching if you're really using that as the proof that Billy's allegations are totally unfounded.

I still maintain that there's a lot we don't know about Jimmy Chamberlin. His mid-1990s public persona never screamed "self-destructive heroin addict," so I see no reason why we'd rely on appearances today either. There is certainly a lot more going on behind the scenes than what little we get from what Jimmy says at drum clinics. I hope Billy was blowing smoke in RS, but I don't see how given Jimmy's history that anyone can completely discount Billy's accusations. Seriously, would anyone here be terribly surprised if it were ever revealed that Jimmy relapsed in some way? I can see us all being sickened and disappointed by it, but not surprised.

shut the living fuck up. though his drumming was great back then, his playing/musicianship is levels above where it was in 1993, and I don't believe he would have reached the ability he has now if he wasn't sober and disappearing every minute these days. you're reaching.

his mid 90's persona never screamed drug addict? watch any mcis era interview and it's easy to tell that he's not the spitting image of sober health. his answers back then were also usually a barrage of excuses for his relapses. He speaks about all of that now like it's a long gone part of his past, he doesn't speak about it like a 'dry drunk' would.

soniclovenoize
08-10-2010, 10:36 AM
anyone who has been listening to an of his music, or listened to him speak over the past 5 or so years, you'd understand that he seems to have moved on from all of those demons and has started a new, happy life. Life Begins Again? all the other 'life spirit love energy' stuff he wrote about in blogs and interviews? On top of that, his ever growing musicianship and ability to play some incredible music? His drumming sounds, these days, like he's filled all the hours he used to spend hunting for/taking drugs with constant practice and refining (something billy doesn't seem to put enough energy into these days). It just doesn't line up with what billy said about him that one time in RS.

Also, so far I mostly agree with how reyngel (poster above) responded.

How much do you know about drug addiction? An addict can cease using, but still display addict characteristics. Trust me, I know. As I had said, it's called being a "Dry Drunk." These characteristics often 1nclude destructive behavior. Corgan specificly cited "destructive behavior" as the reason Jimmy was let go. Connect the dots here. Musicanship is not the issue here.

I think you need to remember that there's usually an underlying problem that causes an addict to use in the first place; drug abuse is simply treating a symptom, if you will. Especially if we're talking about heroin. So sure, Jimmy is clean. But has he gotten help for the reason he was using in the first place? I don't know. I don't think any of us knows. But I do know exactly what Corgan is talking about here.

rub_the_y
08-10-2010, 11:04 AM
What you corgancocksuckers need to think about is why Billy would be calling Jimmy a destructive person, being so destructive himself.

Did it ever cross your mind, Corganist, that Billy simply took this as yet another opportunity to call someone's integrity into question and put a sense of doubt in other people's minds just to take the focus off himself? He never had a bad thing to say about Jimmy when everything was fine, but as soon as Jimmy walks (with Corgan calling YOU'RE FIRED after him), he has all the bad things under the sun to say about his former "life partner".
To call him "destructive", even if he was hanging out with other users, is pretty fucking hypocritical. I don't see him trying to distance himself from the other deadheads he likes hanging out with, so this billshit about him trying to clean up his act and getting rid of jimmy for being "destructive" is just Corgan being Corgan - slinging up shit from the past to try and justify being a fucking douche.
Corgan has no sense of loyalty and just uses people to get to "the top", and when they can't handle his poisonous personality and decide to walk away he does whatever he can to burn all the bridges possible.
A good person wouldn't let the cat out of the bag about the personal problems of former band mates, especially those who have struggled in the past with certain issues. I have yet to see James or D'arcy or Jimmy publicly say one bad thing about Corgan, especially when they would have plenty of dirt on him - pull your noses out of his anus for a minute and ask yourself why.

paranoid
08-10-2010, 11:51 AM
How much do you know about drug addiction? An addict can cease using, but still display addict characteristics. Trust me, I know. As I had said, it's called being a "Dry Drunk." These characteristics often 1nclude destructive behavior. Corgan specificly cited "destructive behavior" as the reason Jimmy was let go. Connect the dots here. Musicanship is not the issue here.

I think you need to remember that there's usually an underlying problem that causes an addict to use in the first place; drug abuse is simply treating a symptom, if you will. Especially if we're talking about heroin. So sure, Jimmy is clean. But has he gotten help for the reason he was using in the first place? I don't know. I don't think any of us knows. But I do know exactly what Corgan is talking about here.

i was citing his evolved musicianship over the past 10 years as an example of where his energy is going, amongst the other things that he has cited as positive in his life (wife, kids, family man, etc etc).. they way he has acted and talked, over the past 5 years especially, do not indicate traits of a dry drunk.. ie he seems to have let go of the demons that caused him to turn to drugs for comfort when he was using in the 90s.

look at it this way, have we got anything on jimmy in the past 5 years that show he was still displaying addict characteristics? point them out to me if you know of any. Have we got any indications of destructive behavior, as corgan said? And don't get ridiculous (corganist) with his hospital visit in fall 2007, it was stated by both him and corgan that he had an issue with his heart, and it was also detailed what his hospital visit was like.

also, i'm of the idea that billy was lying about his destructive behavior. i'm not going to lean on billy's word about jimmy's behavior when jimmy has seemed to be the one member of the old SP who has his head on straight.

Monet LSD
08-11-2010, 06:04 PM
but I don't see how...anyone can completely discount Billy's accusations.

Uh, well, easily. Billy has shown to be full of shit time and time again.

Corganist
08-11-2010, 06:31 PM
Uh, well, easily. Billy has shown to be full of shit time and time again.

Bullshit. He may be a lot of things, but someone who goes on the record and tells bald-faced lies about people has never been proven to be one of them, otherwise we wouldn't even have to debate how much we believe him on these things.

rub_the_y
08-11-2010, 10:44 PM
You realise just because you defend him about something he's not going to one day see you and pat you on the head and tell you how awesome you are, don't you?

A lot of what Billy says is bullshit. If it wasn't we'd be up to what, the 9th song by now? The reason people don't retaliate with his lies is because it's more trouble than it's worth, he's a sad and pathetic human being who always has to be right and will step over his dead mother to make sure he makes his point clear.

But it's ok corganist.. keep jerking yourself to this fantasy of how wonderful you think he is.. clearly you just don't understand what inconsistency means in terms of credibility.

Grox
08-11-2010, 11:51 PM
did james really walk away from the metro after the final show without saying goodbye to billy?

dean_r_koontz
08-12-2010, 12:15 AM
billy

Trotskilicious
08-12-2010, 12:23 AM
clearly you just don't understand what inconsistency means in terms of credibility.

he's a staunch party man, what do you expect

Monet LSD
08-12-2010, 04:01 AM
Bloobleebloo doo doot! Dur dur durr!

.

Corganist
08-12-2010, 10:05 AM
You realise just because you defend him about something he's not going to one day see you and pat you on the head and tell you how awesome you are, don't you?

A lot of what Billy says is bullshit. If it wasn't we'd be up to what, the 9th song by now? The reason people don't retaliate with his lies is because it's more trouble than it's worth, he's a sad and pathetic human being who always has to be right and will step over his dead mother to make sure he makes his point clear.

But it's ok corganist.. keep jerking yourself to this fantasy of how wonderful you think he is.. clearly you just don't understand what inconsistency means in terms of credibility.

I never said that the guy was wonderful or that the guy isn't full of shit a lot of the time. But his saying he's going to release a song or a DVD on schedule (or at all) and eventually failing isn't nearly the same thing as knowingly telling flat-out lies about someone who could ostensibly fight back if what he was saying wasn't true. If you want to talk consistency, then the only thing that matters here is that Billy's supposedly heinous lies against people have been consistently allowed to stand without anything but the flimsiest and most general of denials. If we're judging credibility, I'll take specificity over generality any day of the week.

Yes, Billy says a lot of shit that he ends up changing his mind on down the line...but that isn't nearly enough to get to the conclusion that the bad things he's said about former bandmates are invented by him out of whole cloth. He may be a lot of bad things, but he's never proven to be a liar of anywhere near that magnitude.

duovamp
08-12-2010, 10:44 AM
I support our bald overlord 100% on every issue.

No seriously, I do. Fuck the haters.

paranoid
08-12-2010, 01:54 PM
I never said that the guy was wonderful or that the guy isn't full of shit a lot of the time. But his saying he's going to release a song or a DVD on schedule (or at all) and eventually failing isn't nearly the same thing as knowingly telling flat-out lies about someone who could ostensibly fight back if what he was saying wasn't true. If you want to talk consistency, then the only thing that matters here is that Billy's supposedly heinous lies against people have been consistently allowed to stand without anything but the flimsiest and most general of denials. If we're judging credibility, I'll take specificity over generality any day of the week.


And where was Corgan specific about Jimmy's destructive behavior? All he said was that he fired him for being a fundamentally destructive person.

Jimmy did fight back on corgan calling him destructive though, in the SAME ARTICLE. And I quote:

"Yes, in the past I was a destructive human being. I was a complete drug addict and a complete loose cannon. But I've taken responsibility for my life."

I really don't see that as a flimsy, general denial. He's said, pretty straight, that he has taken responsibility for himself and is not the same person he was 10-15 years ago.

"I have a wife and kids. I'm completely happy."

Again, I ask, have we seen any indication since the reformation that Jimmy was acting destructively? Where is the substantial evidence to back up this claim? We've got plenty of evidence that he was a fuck up in the 90's, but from 05-09 there was nothing, that I could think of, that indicates he was on some sort of destructive streak. And his attitude of the past 5 years doesn't seem to indicate the the symptoms of a dry drunk. He's the only band member of the original 4 that has seemed to grow the fuck up. Maybe growing up is destructive in Corgan's mind?

paranoid
08-12-2010, 02:04 PM
And here's Corgan's recent account of Jimmy leaving, via a SPIN interview:

Question: Why did JC leave the band?

A: Why did Jimmy Chamberlain leave the band last year?
I've never really discussed it much, and I'm really not that interested in discussing it. It's one of those things that's almost impossible to explain. You just reach a point sometimes with somebody where it just doesn't work. I wasn't going to go down with that ship. Luckily, I'm in a situation now where the people I'm playing with are fantastic. We're so in tune with each other and the shows are going so well. It really feels like this is why I'm in the Smashing Pumpkins. The right people are in the band and playing with the right amount of passion. You have to play with a lot of heart. You have to be willing to deal with the ups and downs of the music, the ups and downs of the audience.

jimmy drevpile
08-12-2010, 02:05 PM
Re: RS - The intro to Chamberlin's response: "Jimmy becomes apoplectic at Corgans account..."

Doesn't really sound like Jimmy wants this account to stand, to me...

Slurpee
08-12-2010, 02:41 PM
You have to play with a lot of heart. You have to be willing to deal with the ups and downs of the music, the ups and downs of the audience.

I've always thought that Jimmy took the Anniversary shows as a sign that things were going badly (crowd was booing, Billy was screaming at them), and he and Billy fundamentally disagreed on what to do after this. This quote seems to back that up.

jimmy drevpile
08-12-2010, 02:55 PM
I've always thought that Jimmy took the Anniversary shows as a sign that things were going badly (crowd was booing, Billy was screaming at them), and he and Billy fundamentally disagreed on what to do after this. This quote seems to back that up.

Indeed from the RS interview again > ďIn the middle of the last tour, Billy said it was the agentís fault, then it was the bandís fault, then it was the fansí fault,Ē and it all sort of recalls the bit in IAGW where it's Jimmy trying bolster up Billy when he's in an arse about the press and/or fans.

paranoid
08-12-2010, 03:11 PM
I wonder if the next part of that line would have been 'then it was jimmy's fault'...

Corganist
08-12-2010, 06:16 PM
All I know is that if I was a semi-public figure, and someone I used to work or be friends with said things about me in the media that I know to be untrue and paint me in a bad light, I would do my damnedest to make sure I got the record straight and at the very least lay out an alternate theory of events. When has anyone ever done that? Why don't we ever get a "No, I'm not destructive, and here's why I really left SP" or a "No, we didn't use heroin and fuck each other, here's why Zwan really broke up"? Instead, we always just get the "there were good times, and we don't want to dwell on the bad stuff" bullshit response.

There are really only three options I can think of off of the top of my head that can explain why no one has ever seen fit to tell us anything that would refute Billy's claims in a meaningful way and turn the narrative back at him:

1) Billy's telling the truth and there's nothing anyone can say that can truthfully put themselves in a good light.

2) Billy is just making up random fictions out of whole cloth and conveniently has managed to always be in bands exclusively made up of people who would "take the high road" and not fight back against out and out lies being told about them on a mass public scale.

3) Billy makes all his bandmates sign ironclad non-disclosure agreements that prevent them from setting the record straight regardless of whether he's telling the truth or not.

I think of these 3, #2 is the least likely to be true, yet that's the one everyone here seems to cling to. That makes no sense at all.

paranoid
08-12-2010, 06:47 PM
"No, I'm not destructive, and here's why I really left SP"

now you're reaching. answer my question and point out any evidence that supports Jimmy is a destructive human being and has been in the past 5 years.. besides Billy's word which you obviously take as gospel.

Corganist
08-12-2010, 07:40 PM
"No, I'm not destructive, and here's why I really left SP"

now you're reaching. answer my question and point out any evidence that supports Jimmy is a destructive human being and has been in the past 5 years.. besides Billy's word which you obviously take as gospel.

There is no solid evidence one way or the other. We don't know anything about what Jimmy did or didn't do on the road the last few years, so while there's nothing to clearly support Billy's charges, there's nothing to clearly refute them either. I'm sorry, but the fact that Jimmy's drumming has been good or that he has a family isn't evidence that he's been on the straight and narrow. There are plenty of guys with families who live destructively, and we have no idea what Jimmy's home situation is other than his general "I'm happy" statements (and what else would he say?). And there are plenty of amazing musicians who were/are completely strung out, so his musicianship level can't be considered proof of anything.

I don't think anyone has to take Billy's word at face value on this matter, but I also think that there is zero reason to dismiss it totally. It's entirely possible that Billy was just dishonestly sliming Jimmy and hitting him where it hurt by publicly suggesting he's relapsed in some way. I don't deny that. But does that not seem a little out of character and low even for Billy, miserable son of a bitch he may be? Especially when it comes to Jimmy of all people? I just don't buy that he flipped the switch one day and decided out of the fucking blue to completely just lie about someone he'd been that close to. I think it has to be that there was something real there that led to Billy's statements.

paranoid
08-12-2010, 08:16 PM
There is no solid evidence one way or the other. We don't know anything about what Jimmy did or didn't do on the road the last few years, so while there's nothing to clearly support Billy's charges, there's nothing to clearly refute them either. I'm sorry, but the fact that Jimmy's drumming has been good or that he has a family isn't evidence that he's been on the straight and narrow. There are plenty of guys with families who live destructively, and we have no idea what Jimmy's home situation is other than his general "I'm happy" statements (and what else would he say?). And there are plenty of amazing musicians who were/are completely strung out, so his musicianship level can't be considered proof of anything.

So you admit BC may not be telling the truth. That's as close as you'll come I suppose, but the backup for his statements are not as strong as the backup Jimmy has for his statements, in my mind.

A lot of those other strung out musicians you speak of have either peaked or died. JC is still alive, and he still rises above his previous work every time. not characteristic of a musician that is still strung out. It's easy to tell when a musician, no matter how talented, is strung out. And unless he is extremely talented at hiding it (he wasn't so great at hiding it in the 90's), nothing shows that he is still acting destructively. So who is the liar here? BC or Jimmy? JC has always been the most straight forward member of the band, and BC has been known to contradict himself or his stories several times.

I don't think anyone has to take Billy's word at face value on this matter, but I also think that there is zero reason to dismiss it totally. It's entirely possible that Billy was just dishonestly sliming Jimmy and hitting him where it hurt by publicly suggesting he's relapsed in some way. I don't deny that. But does that not seem a little out of character and low even for Billy, miserable son of a bitch he may be?

uh, fuck no it doesn't seem out of character. remember that whole twitter rant he went on about courtney love, saying viscous childish things about her (in response to her going on stern and saying he had lost his mojo), that to someone like you, probably seemed a bit out of character for him? I mean she was a friend of his for 20 years, as well as a lover at times, and he just let loose on her.


Especially when it comes to Jimmy of all people? I just don't buy that he flipped the switch one day and decided out of the fucking blue to completely just lie about someone he'd been that close to. I think it has to be that there was something real there that led to Billy's statements.

just like BC and courtney, he and Jimmy have also had their ups and downs. Remember 1996? He's probably still harping on that, still blaming that incident for the demise of his band. Obviously something went down that they can't get along anymore. I buy it, that he would lie about someone that he'd been that close too. But you know what? I believe that Billy believes what he is saying about Jimmy, even if it's far from the truth.

We can argue and debate the truths behind the james, darcy, zwan, yelena, courtney stories (fuck he's had a lot of falling outs, huh?) but I'm not buying the Jimmy one. He appears to have been trying to save face, after having such a terrible run with critics and fans in 2008.. and when it comes to his career and it's failings, he has no trouble throwing others under the bus, no matter who they are. There's no doubt in my mind that he may tend to embellish the truth if it helps ease his ego.

Trotskilicious
08-12-2010, 08:39 PM
you know guys i you know i do't really want to do this but

it has to be said

when you argue over the interpersonal politics of two men you've never actually *really* met it's really obsessive and a little gay. just so you know. actually i think gay dudes are more stable and normal than you two but still there's a little dude fantasy going on in y'alls heads.

duovamp
08-12-2010, 08:41 PM
They're totally fats.

Trotskilicious
08-12-2010, 08:48 PM
i like to call them faqs because i learned to replace my gs with qs on myspace

rub_the_y
08-12-2010, 08:52 PM
omq i have cool emo writinq too with no loops on the q's

Trotskilicious
08-12-2010, 08:54 PM
see i thought it was niqqa writinq

duovamp
08-12-2010, 09:01 PM
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/y6HUedbFa9A?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y6HUedbFa9A?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

rub_the_y
08-12-2010, 09:05 PM
is there such a thinq as a niqqa emo?

duovamp
08-12-2010, 09:06 PM
You're askin' the wrong bro.

Trotskilicious
08-12-2010, 09:37 PM
i dunno but there's this nuqqah in my hood that has a impala on 28s and the custom decals and paint job are the skittles logo

paranoid
08-12-2010, 10:55 PM
you know guys i you know i do't really want to do this but

it has to be said

when you argue over the interpersonal politics of two men you've never actually *really* met it's really obsessive and a little gay. just so you know. actually i think gay dudes are more stable and normal than you two but still there's a little dude fantasy going on in y'alls heads.

I'd totally fuck jimmy.

Trotskilicious
08-12-2010, 11:11 PM
well that's nice

Corganist
08-13-2010, 02:03 AM
I'd totally fuck jimmy.

You win.

slunken
08-13-2010, 04:49 AM
so is it safe to assume that Jim would just lie there and take it not saying a word? and later we cajole him for taking the high road? not making a press statement being all "hey i'm not gay or anything".

Luke de Spa
08-13-2010, 05:59 AM
There are really only three options I can think of off of the top of my head that can explain why no one has ever seen fit to tell us anything that would refute Billy's claims in a meaningful way and turn the narrative back at him
or they don't want a shitfight in the media because a) it's childish and stupid and b) it gives attention-whore bill exactly what he wants

seriously "if it were me" is such a dumb argument. especially from you; you're an outlier. when is the last time anyone on this board took your side in an argument

rub_the_y
08-13-2010, 06:01 AM
^probably never.. his arguments suck more cock than a gay burlesque club

soniclovenoize
08-13-2010, 11:08 AM
i was citing his evolved musicianship over the past 10 years as an example of where his energy is going, amongst the other things that he has cited as positive in his life (wife, kids, family man, etc etc).. they way he has acted and talked, over the past 5 years especially, do not indicate traits of a dry drunk.. ie he seems to have let go of the demons that caused him to turn to drugs for comfort when he was using in the 90s.

look at it this way, have we got anything on jimmy in the past 5 years that show he was still displaying addict characteristics? point them out to me if you know of any. Have we got any indications of destructive behavior, as corgan said? And don't get ridiculous (corganist) with his hospital visit in fall 2007, it was stated by both him and corgan that he had an issue with his heart, and it was also detailed what his hospital visit was like.

also, i'm of the idea that billy was lying about his destructive behavior. i'm not going to lean on billy's word about jimmy's behavior when jimmy has seemed to be the one member of the old SP who has his head on straight.

Oh, no, I don't have any. :p I don't even know Jimmy. Do you ? I guess I don't have access to his personal calander. I don't know what to tell you, this aint' much of a debate. http://serve.mysmiley.net/indifferent/indifferent0025.gif

paranoid
08-13-2010, 11:29 AM
Oh, no, I don't have any. :p I don't even know Jimmy. Do you ? I guess I don't have access to his personal calander. I don't know what to tell you, this aint' much of a debate. http://serve.mysmiley.net/indifferent/indifferent0025.gif

yes it is. there are several things we can point to in the 90's that indicated he was destructive. not so much these days.

but you're right, it's all on the surface. maybe he's a professional addict now, and the wife kids positive attitude are all a front and he either relapsed or is bound to relapse any second now. RIP, dead man walking.

Corganist
08-13-2010, 12:10 PM
or they don't want a shitfight in the media because a) it's childish and stupid and b) it gives attention-whore bill exactly what he wants
But again, every single person Billy's ever been in a band with and had something bad to say about has this high-minded attitude where they'll take being slimed in public lying down? How fortunate Billy has been!

seriously "if it were me" is such a dumb argument. especially from you; you're an outlier. when is the last time anyone on this board took your side in an argument

You say that like this board's opinion isn't usually the outlier opinion in and of itself. Maybe "if it were me" is a dumb argument, but it's miles above "if it were the average Netphorian."

Luke de Spa
08-13-2010, 05:09 PM
But again, every single person Billy's ever been in a band with and had something bad to say about has this high-minded attitude where they'll take being slimed in public lying down? How fortunate Billy has been!
i'm pretty sure that if i used to be in a band with some guy whom i'd gradually became thoroughly sick of, and never wanted to see again or hear about, the last thing i'd want to do is get on the phone with a reporter and reminisce about what an asshole the guy was. (or if he fired me after telling me how destructive or worthless or immoral i was. whatever.) not everyone is a revenge-obsessed media-fixated douchebag, corganist

so i don't think it's implausible. we're only talking about what, six people, excluding ring-ins? it's entirely possible that they'd all have some other reason not to fight their battles publicly. not interested / don't read their press (so don't know) / over it / don't want to give bill what he wants / too busy / not a vengeful child like bill or you / etc. etc.

You say that like this board's opinion isn't usually the outlier opinion in and of itself. Maybe "if it were me" is a dumb argument, but it's miles above "if it were the average Netphorian."
you're putting words in my mouth, but outside the o-board, the rest of the billy-corgan-aware world thinks bill is a joke, so in this specific instance you're wrong anyway

soniclovenoize
08-13-2010, 05:25 PM
yes it is. there are several things we can point to in the 90's that indicated he was destructive. not so much these days.

but you're right, it's all on the surface. maybe he's a professional addict now, and the wife kids positive attitude are all a front and he either relapsed or is bound to relapse any second now. RIP, dead man walking.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at. But I'll be the one to admit that I have no real idea, you know? ;) I only met him once, and he just signed my peach Rocket vinyl and I moved the fuck on down the line.

And then MadM caught me staring at her cleavage. :(

Trotskilicious
08-13-2010, 06:07 PM
you're putting words in my mouth, but outside the o-board, the rest of the billy-corgan-aware world thinks bill is a joke, so in this specific instance you're wrong anyway

wtf is this surely everyone thinks he's a mercurial genius!??!?!

Trotskilicious
08-13-2010, 06:10 PM
i mean <b>I</b> do, they must all think like me because i'm ever so smart and rational!

Trotskilicious
08-13-2010, 06:11 PM
i don't think like you guys, you guys are <i>weird</I> people on the <i>internet.</I>

Trotskilicious
08-13-2010, 06:12 PM
i'm going to go make a topic called "Do you think James still talks to D'Arcy?" and then get in a huge argument with long, detailed, critical paragraphs full of my intense understanding on the subject for each erroneous statement made by one of you weirdos!

Wonder what it's like not to be a normal person like me!

IEatMyFeces
07-27-2011, 11:52 PM
Yeah, because the best thing james/darcy want is to give a fame seeking sack of shit bill any fucking attention. They don't ever talk about sp at all from what I have seen. They don't want to, they moved the fuck on. They don't need the SP "name" in order for people to give a fuck about them.

Do you honestly think they don't have any stories to add about bill cheating on his wife, using drugs, and all sorts of shit?

Fuck off idiot.

godamn. good writing.

IEatMyFeces
07-28-2011, 12:01 AM
You know, truthfully, I've gotten so used to reading these absolutely horrible things about him that nothing was shocking to me. But now that I look back, all I can say is that this guy has some serious borderline personality symptoms. would your perception of him change because of that?

Trotskilicious
07-28-2011, 12:20 AM
considering the profundity of depressed and bipolar fans of the Smashing Pumpkins i already assume Billy is one of those two things, I'm guessing bipolar based on his production in the 90s and the fact that he basically starts more things than he finishes these days

Trotskilicious
07-28-2011, 12:23 AM
i dunno but there's this nuqqah in my hood that has a impala on 28s and the custom decals and paint job are the skittles logo

this apparently means he's a pot dealer

stumpycat
07-28-2011, 10:51 PM
I think we eventually concluded that he has borderline personality disorder. (Well, at least that.)

Birds of a feather do flock together, though. We all have a little Billy in us.

slunken
07-29-2011, 12:38 AM
would you like a lot of billy in you?

slunken
07-29-2011, 12:39 AM
thank you *bows graciously

IEatMyFeces
07-29-2011, 12:46 AM
thank you *bows graciously

classic.

stumpycat
07-30-2011, 02:32 AM
would you like a lot of billy in you?
Back when I was 13 or 14, yeah :erm:

But now? Not so much...

killtrocity
07-30-2011, 08:33 PM
James Iha broke up the band: no

James was lazy: no. Billy was jsut really controlling

He and James really had no friendship in the 12 years they were together: bs

D'arcy was a mean spirited drug addict who refused to get help: evidence points to yes. half true in any case

D'arcy was fired: no

He contacted James and D'arcy for the 2005 revival: no. unless having a guy send an email or something counts, which it doesn't

He fired Jimmy in 2009: no fucking way

Jimmy is still fundamentally a destructive human being: absolutely not

He wrote 99% of the pumpkins golden era material: I honestly believe this. you can count the songs James wrote or contributed to in a major way on your hands.. it's impossible to gauge what influence james had (because every member definitely had a cohesive influence on the whole), but none of the original four have ever denied that Billy wrote everything, and it's his name on the writing creds

he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): yeah, control freak. If you calculate it, probably above 95%, but who the fuck is gonna make a spreadsheet

RenewRevive
07-30-2011, 09:56 PM
he recorded 99% of the guitar and bass tracks (91-2000): yeah, control freak. If you calculate it, probably above 95%, but who the fuck is gonna make a spreadsheet

nah, Flood said that MCIS (and TAFH) was a whole band effort. i think this supposition holds true for the two Vigg-produced albums, maybe PI. i'd guess Adore was the band. Flood wasn't totally clear on Machina, but no one really doubts that James plays on it, D'arcy mybe not - M2 yes, the Machina album, unsure.