So it's out there...

thanks. it's great so far. they're going straight for the hooks.

maybe I spoke too soon, this half light pair of songs is really dragging things down

So pretty good overall. Drop 3 tracks: the "Half Light" Pair and "Sprawl (Flatland)" and you have an 'A' album. As it is it's a B, a little bloated at 60+ minutes.

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

I'm still DLing, I just felt like posting that.

Probably won't listen to this, I kind of like some of their songs but I'm pretty certain that's as far as it goes unless they somehow learned how to write good lyrics just recently

Wow, this is so fucking boring. Dude should change his name to Fail.

i heard a few songs and i think that's enough

i will never listen to indie fucktrash

i heard a few songs and i think that's enough

Halfway through the album I was like "JESUS CHRIST IS THIS FUCKING DONE YET?!!?"

You guys are haterz. This is a classy pop album. What the fuck new music is out right now that's so great that you're listening to?

I keep up with all my psych/stoner/noise stuff, I'm talking about indie rock I guess.

I wouldn't call this a bad album, but it kinda lacks the atmosphere of their last two records. If they don't make some major renovations and innovations on album #4, i'm going to get bored though.

You guys are haterz. This is a classy pop album. What the fuck new music is out right now that's so great that you're listening to?

I keep up with all my psych/stoner/noise stuff, I'm talking about indie rock I guess.

Ke$ha

You guys are haterz. This is a classy pop album. What the fuck new music is out right now that's so great that you're listening to?

I keep up with all my psych/stoner/noise stuff, I'm talking about indie rock I guess.

I already told you in the other thread, but you hopped on the bandwagon to tear it apart without knowing exactly what it was, especially if you claim to "keep up with all my psych/stoner/noise stuff." slunken was the only one who picked up on how idiotic it all was. But I'm not gonna sit and defend Circulatory System; I don't need to.

Go dl the new Circulatoy System album Signal Morning. Seriously listen to it without the pretense. I suggest through headphoens. Stoned if you wish. It's fucking insane.
circulatory system - signal morning 2009.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/?w2jftomyw1m) <-- not my up

As for me, I don't buy into the whole "I gotta listen to new music!" ethos. If I haven't heard it before, it's new... you know what I mean? I recently discovered Wilco, so "new" to me is A Ghost is Born, which is killing me right now. I've been listening to Kicking Television all night at work actually...

I wouldn't call this a bad album, but it kinda lacks the atmosphere of their last two records.

exactly

didn't get the same feeling with this one as the last two. there are a few goodies but overall pretty disappointing :/

I already told you in the other thread, but you hopped on the bandwagon to tear it apart without knowing exactly what it was, especially if you claim to "keep up with all my psych/stoner/noise stuff." slunken was the only one who picked up on how idiotic it all was. But I'm not gonna sit and defend Circulatory System; I don't need to.

Go dl the new Circulatoy System album Signal Morning. Seriously listen to it without the pretense. I suggest through headphoens. Stoned if you wish. It's fucking insane.
circulatory system - signal morning 2009.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/?w2jftomyw1m) <-- not my up

As for me, I don't buy into the whole "I gotta listen to new music!" ethos. If I haven't heard it before, it's new... you know what I mean? I recently discovered Wilco, so "new" to me is A Ghost is Born, which is killing me right now. I've been listening to Kicking Television all night at work actually...

I just saw that circulatory system video on the SP board... mother of god was it bad.

I don't know if I think this album is as good as Funeral or Neon Bible. Definitely different... It needs more listens to sink in.

i dl'd a few days ago, but i can't make myself listen to it. : /

way too long

i'm giving it a second go now, the first listen i dozed off with all the songs blending together until around deep blue i think it is.

how can you do better than funeral though i mean they're classic whole wad right from the start

killer tracks:

3. "Modern Man"
4. "Rococo"
5. "Empty Room"
6. "City with No Children"
10. "Month of May"
13. "We Used to Wait"
15. "Sprawl II (Mountains Beyond Mountains)" (what a fucking song!!)


pretty awesome tracks:
1. "The Suburbs" (borderline killer, catchy chorus)
2. "Ready to Start"
9. "Suburban War" (borderline killer)
11. "Wasted Hours"
12. "Deep Blue"
16. "The Suburbs (Continued)

could do without:

7. "Half Light I"
8. "Half Light II (No Celebration)"
14. "Sprawl I (Flatland)"




You fuckers who can't finish the album: crank up track 15.

I spent a lot of my years growing up in the north Houston suburb that Win is from and the more I listen, more and more of the "jaded suburb kid" lyrics LIKE SPEAK TO ME ON A DEEP LEVEL AND SHIT KNOW WHAT I'M SAYN

This album sacrifices the bombast of stuff like "Power Out" for more like MATURITY AND GENTEELNESS AND STUFF KNOW WHAT I'M SAYN

fuck this band

I already told you in the other thread, but you hopped on the bandwagon to tear it apart without knowing exactly what it was, especially if you claim to "keep up with all my psych/stoner/noise stuff." slunken was the only one who picked up on how idiotic it all was. But I'm not gonna sit and defend Circulatory System; I don't need to.

Go dl the new Circulatoy System album Signal Morning. Seriously listen to it without the pretense. I suggest through headphoens. Stoned if you wish. It's fucking insane.
circulatory system - signal morning 2009.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/?w2jftomyw1m) <-- not my up

As for me, I don't buy into the whole "I gotta listen to new music!" ethos. If I haven't heard it before, it's new... you know what I mean? I recently discovered Wilco, so "new" to me is A Ghost is Born, which is killing me right now. I've been listening to Kicking Television all night at work actually...

Goddamn Sonic, fuck your abhorrable Circulatory System. Do you work for these guys or something?

1. The Suburbs 6/10 boring opener / title track. ugh.
2. Ready To Start 8/10 much better. should be the album opener
3. Modern Man 6.5/10 ok but underwhelming. super-predictable sort of subject matter for this band. guitar lines almost remind of bad New Order / Bad Lieutenant.
4. Rococo 6/10 slooow/repetitive. lyrics are fun but doesn't rescue the song
5. Empty Room 8.5/10 fiiiiiiinally some decent tempo/Regine/guitar lines
6. City With No Children 6.5/10 see Modern Man. nice handclaps tho
7. Half Light I 7.5/10 pretty. nice strings. nice enough track.
8. Half Light II (No Celebration) 8/10 interesting take on the more classic AF sound, and it mostly works. song actually builds up a bit too instead of being flat throughout.
9. Suburban War 7/10 the lackluster theme of the album continues, the song is ok when they let it open up (around 2mins and 3:15)
10. Month of May 7/10 the musical changeup is ok but the lyrics suck
11. Wasted Hours 7/10 a slower number that actually almost works
12. Deep Blue 7.5/10 might do better if it wasn't the nth slow-ish song on the album
13. We Used to Wait 7.5/10 same comment. actually a better song than deep blue - atmospheric and immediate
14. Sprawl I (Flatland) 6.5/10 too long even if it's really just a buildup/contrast for...
15. Sprawl II (Mountains Beyond Mountains) 9/10 best song on the album, I actually agree with TuralyonW3 on something here. Regine/MGMT >>>> The Butlers
16. The Suburbs (Continued) 5.5/10 tonite reprise

overall... B- i guess?

- props for being ambitious but it's just too long without enough variety
- lacking originality in their subject matter / metaphors / lyrics: cars. driving. war. wind.
- musically there's a few twists and turns but some of them just sound like Neon Bible outtakes.

Goddamn Sonic, fuck your abhorrable Circulatory System. Do you work for these guys or something?

:D I wish. I'd intern at Cloud Recordings. I don't really want to move to Athens, though...

You guys are free to hate it, that's cool. Next time I'll suggest something with cliche heavy drums, overly-processed power-chord guitars, synths and I'm-so-depressed-and-angsty lyrics.

i like the first circulatory system album quite a bit. esp lovely universe

This album sacrifices the bombast of stuff like "Power Out" for more like MATURITY AND GENTEELNESS AND STUFF KNOW WHAT I'M SAYN

why is rocking "immature." Power out is killer, wtf is not mature about it

you realize you're justifying the fact that you're turning into an adult contemporary fan.

ps _|_

why is rocking "immature." Power out is killer, wtf is not mature about it

you realize you're justifying the fact that you're turning into an adult contemporary fan.

no I fucking love power out, i'm just saying this is an alternative to that. now we have both. arcade fire is awesome.

well alright then

REBELLIONS (LIES)

I like Funeral enough to keep it on the ol' XHD; I only liked probably three tracks on Neon Bible (No Cars Go, Intervention, and I don't even remember the other one) but I'm really digging the new one.

I didn't think it drags down all that much - it doesn't seem to be as long as it is.

fascinating

I like Funeral enough to keep it on the ol' XHD; I only liked probably three tracks on Neon Bible (No Cars Go, Intervention, and I don't even remember the other one) but I'm really digging the new one.


Neon Bible > Funeral > The Suburbs

IMHO

why do bands release albums this long

same goes for three hour films and 1,000 page novels

just fucking stop already, you're being ridiculous

thing is though how many albums over an hour actually warrant that run time?

te three hour flick usually warrants it and 1000 page novels are rare these days unless it's Tomas Pynchon, and even then it takes real dedication to read it. Even harry potters at their most bloated and self infatuated clocked in at about 800 with large font.

i mean catch 22 is nearly 600 pages and it's worth every page.

have you read infinite jest

not familiar with it i read nora roberts and dean r. koontz

but sometimes the 3 hour movie is david lynch's "dune"

or the 1,000 page novel is war and peace (okay it's 950 pages or whatever, close enough)

just shut up guys

haha dune

oh man the studio exec that was like "OH THIS DAVID LYNCH GUY IS HOT RIGHT NOW I BET HE'LL BE A PERFECT FIT!" is probably begging for change under an overpass right now.

George Lucas asked David Lynch to direct Return of the Jedi and he turned it down

That crazy fucker needs to make the rest of the Dune series immediatly. I would love to see Kyle Maclachlan's eyes burned out.

You guys are free to hate it, that's cool. Next time I'll suggest something with cliche heavy drums, overly-processed power-chord guitars, synths and I'm-so-depressed-and-angsty lyrics.

sounds cool but i was looking more for ridiculous, opaque, quasi-political lyrics

and sprawl II is definitely a highlight on this album. i don't remember who said it first but I agree, this band needs to experiment more for the4th album.

^ that was me, and I stand by that statement.

That said The Suburbs has grown on me enormously.

at first i really didn't give a hoot about this because any impact it had was watered down by being so long and having a lot of bland songs, so i didn't really listen more than twice. then i went back last week and listened again and you can cut this down to like 6 or 8 songs and those songs are real good

Arcade Fire always came across as a bunch of twats to me. I havent even listened to the new album and I can be arsed downloading it.

thing is though how many albums over an hour actually warrant that run time?

te three hour flick usually warrants it and 1000 page novels are rare these days unless it's Tomas Pynchon, and even then it takes real dedication to read it. Even harry potters at their most bloated and self infatuated clocked in at about 800 with large font.

I have no problem with length (love Kozelek, Adore, and Victor Hugo) but yeah, it's about having enough to say to fill up the space. Unfortunately I gave Suburbs six or seven listens and I don't think it really does. I think it would be as good as Neon Bible if it were shorter/more dynamic. Still a good record though, say what you want about Arcade Fire being the indie/hipster posterboys but they're still a great group.

There are tons of hour+ albums that are great, including The Suburbs. In fact, I'd say these ones are some of my favorite EVER, not just out of the long ones:

Smashing Pumpkins - Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
The Cure - Disintegration
Nine Inch Nails - The Fragile
Between the Buried and Me - Colors
Neurosis - A Sun That Never Sets
Opeth - Still Life
Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation
The Clash - London Calling
Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven
Modest Mouse - Lonesome Crowded West
Placebo - Without You I'm Nothing
Tortoise - TNT
Two Gallants - What the Toll Tells
Wilco - Being There
Drive-By Truckers - Decoration Day
Aesop Rock - Labor Days
Mogwai - Young Team
Soundgarden - Superunknown
Tom Waits - Nighthawks at the Diner
The Who - Quadrophenia

Give me too much over too little any day.

nah, short albums (30 mins or less) ftw

yes albums that keep on dragging are far better than albums so good that they're too short

i've probably listened to this album 20 times or more now. it has a handful of great songs and most of the rest are good but it still suffers from being too long without enough variety, so another *** for the plz experiment more on the next album. they're good at doing what they've covered but this is the 3rd album really.

yeah i'll say that this album has enough great songs on it like The title track, modern man, roccoco and mountains beyond mountains (which really brings to mind FM 1960 in Houston as well as the "hell strip" of I-10 on the east side of that festering pit) to really keep coming back and looking at it but Sprawl I is intensely bad and it's the end of a very trying, lengthy, soundalike pack of songs. I know dogfucker thinks he has to keep calling this a great album but I really have doubts starting with his list that he really has a very good definition of "great." The Suburbs is a good album, not great. That's all.

album's long, the concept is old and tired (haven't we said all we can possibly say about the suburbs already?) and that's that. There's no rule about things over an hour are going to be bad. Fact is, if it's boring at all, at any point, no matter what the total run time is it's "long."

Funeral is a good example of the opposite, it's so good it keeps you wanting more and at 10 tracks it's just right. Keeping people wanting more is much better than dropping a double album on them, like Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness for example.

I did hear one or two of the AF band members mention that "the b-side" is dead, which makes me wonder if that's why they made such a long album. Those middle-album songs (City with No Children, Suburban War, Wasted Hours, Deep Blue, We Used to Wait) are all decent on their own but would've gotten more acclaim as b-sides.

i like city with no children, think it's one of the tops but yeah that's the mid-album quintet finsihing with Sprawl I which i just. it's like, having Sprawl II Mountains Beyond Mountains after it makes it #1 must skip.

I finally listened to it all the way through, and it's pretty good. Agree with Sprawl II being a highlight, but my two other favorites (as of now) are The Suburbs and Deep Blue.

It is kinda weird that they jacked up the album length so much, but for a lazy Saturday night, I didn't feel like it dragged too much.

This sure looks exciting for a mediocre mid album song

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ok dude

you're right you win or whatever

Most awesome arcade fire side project

Citizens on Patrol - Yes you can turn on the siren. (http://copband.com/)


I worked with them in evanston. Will is a tool.

yeah i'll say that this album has enough great songs on it like The title track, modern man, roccoco and mountains beyond mountains (which really brings to mind FM 1960 in Houston as well as the "hell strip" of I-10 on the east side of that festering pit) to really keep coming back and looking at it but Sprawl I is intensely bad and it's the end of a very trying, lengthy, soundalike pack of songs. I know dogfucker thinks he has to keep calling this a great album but I really have doubts starting with his list that he really has a very good definition of "great." The Suburbs is a good album, not great. That's all.

album's long, the concept is old and tired (haven't we said all we can possibly say about the suburbs already?) and that's that. There's no rule about things over an hour are going to be bad. Fact is, if it's boring at all, at any point, no matter what the total run time is it's "long."

Funeral is a good example of the opposite, it's so good it keeps you wanting more and at 10 tracks it's just right. Keeping people wanting more is much better than dropping a double album on them, like Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness for example.
Yeah, exactly. What happened to "less is more"? I have no problem with double albums, but on MCIS the material warranted it. Would have Kid A been a good double-album? No, not at all. And the last three Soundgarden albums could have been shorter by 10-15 minutes.

Speaking of, I've actually named this phenomenon: The Badmotorfinger Effect ... when an album is just too fucking long to enjoy and by 2/3rds through, you're like "Yeah, this is good, but I gotta go mow the lawn" or whatever. :p

Kid A/Amnesiac is kind of a double, and i know it's kind of heresy but I'm not a big fan of Amnesiac.

Y when an album is just too fucking long to enjoy and by 2/3rds through, you're like "Yeah, this is good, but I gotta go mow the lawn" or whatever. :p

Or like every rap cd ever made ever.

Kid A/Amnesiac is kind of a double, and i know it's kind of heresy but I'm not a big fan of Amnesiac.

No man, it's OK. I'm one of the assholes who think they should have just taken the 12 best songs from both Kid A and Amnesiac and made one solid in-fucking-credible follow-up to OK Computer....

I call it Kid Amnesiac
Radiohead - Kid Amnesiac.zip (http://www.mediafire.com/?kzvuz2re1yb8v4z)


Or like every rap cd ever made ever.

d00d what about all the tight skitz?

No man, it's OK. I'm one of the assholes who think they should have just taken the 12 best songs from both Kid A and Amnesiac and made one solid in-fucking-credible follow-up to OK Computer....

I call it Kid Amnesiac
Radiohead - Kid Amnesiac.zip (http://www.mediafire.com/?kzvuz2re1yb8v4z)






I'm not downloading that, but what'd you take out? Amnesiac might not be the best thing ever, but I can't really think of what I'd take out aside from Hunting Bears and Morning Bell.

Or like every rap cd ever made ever.

are you trolling

i mean yeah the vast vast majority

Amnesiac is my favorite Radiohead record. cool story.

as for "or like every rap cd ever made"...... :erm: there are dozens of 'rap' albums that fly in the face of such claims

I'm sure there are, Matt, but I'm talking about your run-of-the-mill bought-it-at-the-mall saw-the-video-on-mtv rap cd.

And no, I'm not trolling. I just really really dislike hip-hop and what it stands for (in most cases - see above).

run-of-the-mill bought-it-at-the-mall saw-the-video-on-mtv rap cd.


the difference between this, and GOOD hip hop, is pretty much immeasurable.

And no, I'm not trolling. I just really really dislike hip-hop and what it stands for (in most cases - see above).

....what does hip-hop "stand for?"

he's just racist.

....what does hip-hop "stand for?"

it generally promotes a negative-to-ridiculous image/lifestyle let's be honest.

the difference between this, and GOOD hip hop, is pretty much immeasurable.



true but for me this is a case where all the bad outweighs the good. gotta draw lines somewhere.

yeah aren't any examples of rock music promoting a negative to ridiculous image or lifestyle

I can't really think of what I'd take out aside from Hunting Bears and Morning Bell.

Hunting Bears is the shit.

my final word on The Suburbs is this:

Yes, as an album it's too long, and it suffers for it.

But I also think that it's very different to the last two records in its tendency not to rely on short, punchy riffs and motifs (ala Power Out, Wake Up, Keep The Car Running, etc.) to make each song easy to identify, which lends it quite a bit of repeat listening value: i'm still exploring the disc, finding little nuances of each song that i'd missed before, and as I do so it's growing on me more and more. Funeral, as amazing as that album is, I pretty much had memorized by the tenth spin.

I'm not saying there's not filler on this record, or that some judicious editing wouldn't have helped it a lot, but i'll definitely say that it's a great album.

Kid A/Amnesiac is kind of a double, and i know it's kind of heresy but I'm not a big fan of Amnesiac.
i'm so sick of statements like this.

btw amnesiac has aged really well. i wouldn't even say it's worse than kid a.

also i think most "intellectual" hiphop is worse than the run-of-the-mill stuff

it generally promotes a negative-to-ridiculous image/lifestyle let's be honest.






uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so does pop music. and rock music. and everything else. what are you talking about?

also i think most "intellectual" hiphop is worse than the run-of-the-mill stuff

please elaborate on this

i know you know a shitload about music, but how much "intellectual" hip hop have you really heard?

i'm so sick of statements like this.

btw amnesiac has aged really well. i wouldn't even say it's worse than kid a.

also i think most "intellectual" hiphop is worse than the run-of-the-mill stuff

Oh, yeah, Amnesiac is great... for an album of b-side-worthy songs.

I'm not downloading that, but what'd you take out? Amnesiac might not be the best thing ever, but I can't really think of what I'd take out aside from Hunting Bears and Morning Bell.

1. Everything In It's Right Place
2. Pyramid Song
3. National Anthem
4. How To Disappear
5. I Might Be Wrong
6. Optimistic
7. In Limbo
8. Knives Out
9. Morning Bell (Kid A version)
10. You and Whose Army?
11. Dollars and Cents
12. Life in a Glass House

Oh, yeah, Amnesiac is great... for an album of b-side-worthy songs.



1. Everything In It's Right Place
2. Pyramid Song
3. National Anthem
4. How To Disappear
5. I Might Be Wrong
6. Optimistic
7. In Limbo
8. Knives Out
9. Morning Bell (Kid A version)
10. You and Whose Army?
11. Dollars and Cents
12. Life in a Glass House

No Kid A, Motion Picture Soundtrack, Treefingers, Idioteque, Sardines, Revolving Doors? Failure!

Oh, yeah, Amnesiac is great... for an album of b-side-worthy songs.



1. Everything In It's Right Place
2. Pyramid Song
3. National Anthem
4. How To Disappear
5. I Might Be Wrong
6. Optimistic
7. In Limbo
8. Knives Out
9. Morning Bell (Kid A version)
10. You and Whose Army?
11. Dollars and Cents
12. Life in a Glass House


don't you think is just better to have 2 different and rather amazing albums

I can't believe how shocked some of you are acting. Breaking news: by and large rap music promotes drugs and violence and shallow values. And I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to say that hiphop/rap is more socially acceptable than it's ever been. Hell, you got Wyclef selling Ritz crackers and TI hawking Axe body spray.

Last time T.I. visited my city people got shot.

please elaborate on this

i know you know a shitload about music, but how much "intellectual" hip hop have you really heard?

Not much. Or not enough to keep me hooked. When I tended bar the guy I shifted with was really into it (he DJ's it as well - like most hipster bartenders lol) but I just couldn't get into it. I just don't have the time to pick through a barrel of shit to find one shiny diamond.

The only way I can listen to rap music is to treat it like a stand-up comedy album: there's a lot of profanity and some of the jokes are repeatable.

I can't believe how shocked some of you are acting. Breaking news: by and large rap music promotes drugs and violence and shallow values. And I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to say that hiphop/rap is more socially acceptable than it's ever been. Hell, you got Wyclef selling Ritz crackers and TI hawking Axe body spray.

Last time T.I. visited my city people got shot.





Yes because rock and roll doesn't promote drug use and "shallow values." And the Rolling Stones hired The Hell's Angels as security guards and paid them in beer. To cite one example.

you really are just racist.

last time dimebag darrell performed somewhere he got shot

i mean seriously. wtf.

I love how just because I'm taking an anti-rap stance I MUST be some kind of bona-fide whitebread rocker or something. It must be obvious to you that because I don't care for Rick Ross that I have a Godsmack tattoo on my thigh.

That's a pretty black and white view of the world, Eulogy.

Why is there a laundry list of rappers currently incarcerated, Eulogy? Must be a racist system in place and they're wrongly accused, huh?

And the Rolling Stones hired The Hell's Angels as security guards and paid them in beer.

OH NO THEY PAID THEM IN BEER??!!!???

No Kid A, Motion Picture Soundtrack, Treefingers, Idioteque, Sardines, Revolving Doors? Failure!

They're all mediocre b-sides. Maquiladora and The Trickster > all those. WTF was Radiohead thinking?

don't you think is just better to have 2 different and rather amazing albums

Yes, I agree. Too bad those two different and rather amazing albums are not Kid A and Amnesiac.

I love how just because I'm taking an anti-rap stance I MUST be some kind of bona-fide whitebread rocker or something. It must be obvious to you that because I don't care for Rick Ross that I have a Godsmack tattoo on my thigh.

That's a pretty black and white view of the world, Eulogy.

Why is there a laundry list of rappers currently incarcerated, Eulogy? Must be a racist system in place and they're wrongly accused, huh?

OK. I have to back slunken up on this. While it's true there are some socially conscious rappers (Common, etc.) and some who attempt to push the bounderies for audio design (Kanye, etc.), they are of the vast minority. 80% of hip-hop is musicly and lyricly formuliac and totally contrived. Have you ever just sat and watched BET anytime? I understand that that's just the mainstream rap, but here's the deal: I've also sat and listened fucking HUNDREDS of dudes no one's heard of, thinking he's the next 50 Cent.

And it comes down to this: the overwelming ethos of rap/hip-hop is trying to make your game, to make your bones, to get your cash money on, or whatever you wanna call it. It's either that or slinging crack. Wait, didn't Biggy already say this? All these guys follow the heard and strive to construct hit singles, not art. That's why there's few long-lasting talents in rap music--they're all just come-and-go, no investing in long-term artistic accomplishments. They get a hit and then the audience moves on to the next big hit.

So what I'm saying is there are few real artists in rap, only entrepreneurs. Anytime you have the entrepreneurs making the music more so than the artists, you have a big problem. All these guys rap about the same things--drugs, violence and negative stereotypes, as slunken had said--because they know it will sell. If they start to rap about big issues or their inner-most feelings, it won't sell. So they don't do it (or that is literally all they know in their life, which is a whole 'nother topic. :p ). I saw an interview with 50 Cent, and they asked him "Why don't you rap about your kids?" His answer was something like "No, I know that's not what my audience wants to hear..." Fuck that shit.

Yeah, I already know what the retort is: a list of artistic/intilectual rappers to prove me wrong. Well save it; for every one of those, there's 200 entrepreneur-rappers. That's the reality of the genre.

god, slunken is absolutely correct. it's refreshing to hear someone else have the correct viewpoint on rap

i guess im also racist because i can see the forests for the trees

god, slunken is absolutely correct. it's refreshing to hear someone else have the correct viewpoint on rap

yeah you also think football is just "thugs running into each other" so i'm not sure you have any authority here.

And slunken, my point was that every single type of relatively popular music promotes drug use and "shallow values," you dolt.

And to imply that "the system" isn't racist is also laughable. But whatever. You and samuel redman can get together and hate black people and think that rap is inherently worthless because rappers don't generally promote high art like fucking Weezer and Korn or whatever the fuck.

Yeah, I already know what the retort is: a list of artistic/intilectual rappers to prove me wrong. Well save it; for every one of those, there's 200 entrepreneur-rappers. That's the reality of the genre.

That's the reality of the music business.

holy shit people, really?

So what I'm saying is there are few real artists in rap, only entrepreneurs.

isnt that the case for all art.

fuck nvm eulogys got it.

footballs also bores the snot out of me

yeah you also think A is just "thugs running into each other" so i'm not sure you have any authority here.

And slunken, my point was that every single type of relatively popular music promotes drug use and "shallow values," you dolt.

And to imply that "the system" isn't racist is also laughable. But whatever. You and samuel redman can get together and hate black people and think that rap is inherently worthless because rappers don't generally promote high art like fucking Weezer and Korn or whatever the fuck.

but you can't tell me that an army of people (black AND white) who dress and talk and think almost exactly the same due to the rap culture isn't a bad thing? i mean christ, shooting people is cool now because rap condones it. i hate the indie music culture too but really those people are just pussies

You and samuel redman can get together and hate black people and think that rap is inherently worthless because rappers don't generally promote high art like fucking Weezer and Korn or whatever the fuck.

Yup, there's that black and white worldview again. That's pretty small-minded of you, Eulogy, to assume that just because I don't personally enjoy hip-hop that I champion bands like Weezer or Korn.

And here I was thinking the "you're either a rocker or a rapper" argument died out when I was in middle school.

y
And slunken, my point was that every single type of relatively popular music promotes drug use and "shallow values," you dolt.

I will agree about pop music and shallow values tho, but that's not the issue here. Dunno about the drug use, tho.

I will agree about pop music and shallow values tho, but that's not the issue here.

nobody will understand this point slunken. it's a shame

let's all just agree that the vast majority of music makes people insanely stupid

Yup, there's that black and white worldview again. That's pretty small-minded of you, Eulogy, to assume that just because I don't personally enjoy hip-hop that I champion bands like Weezer or Korn.

And here I was thinking the "you're either a rocker or a rapper" argument died out when I was in middle school.


No, you idiot. You can't paint an entire genre with one brush and then make exceptions for another. If the bad rappers make the entire genre worthless, then bad rockers make the entire genre worthless as well.

but you can't tell me that an army of people (black AND white) who dress and talk and think almost exactly the same due to the rap culture isn't a bad thing? i mean christ, shooting people is cool now because rap condones it. i hate the indie music culture too but really those people are just pussies

my god. is this serious?

my god. is this serious?

yes. it is 100% valid and the truth too

i mean you dont see a bunch of douchebag rockers driving up and ally blasting rock music whilst shooting people. but you do see a bunch of people who listen to rap doing the same thing while blasting music that is talking about shooting people. there's a huge connection here.

No, you idiot. You can't paint an entire genre with one brush and then make exceptions for another. If the bad rappers make the entire genre worthless, then bad rockers make the entire genre worthless as well.

No - I'm not making excuses for rockers. In fact I have not once brought up rock music in any of my original arguments. For some reason, though (most likely your small-minded worldview) you keep bringing up rock music like it's some excuse to defend the generally horrible actions of rappers.

Let me break it down in a format you'd be used to: the filler skit.

Me: Rap music is kind of a bad influence and promotes negative actions.
You: Rock music isn't that much better.
Me: Okay. So? That's not the issue at hand.

You can't defend one thing by pointing out that it's not as bad, or is equally as bad, as something else.

No - I'm not making excuses for rockers. In fact I have not once brought up rock music in any of my original arguments. For some reason, though (most likely your small-minded worldview) you keep bringing up rock music like it's some excuse to defend the generally horrible actions of rappers.

Let me break it down in a format you'd be used to: the filler skit.

Me: Rap music is kind of a bad influence and promotes negative actions.
You: Rock music isn't that much better.
Me: Okay. So? That's not the issue at hand.

So all music is bad and worthless. That's the only conclusion you can come to without seeming disingenuous/wrong/racist.

So all music is bad and worthless. That's the only conclusion you can come to without seeming disingenuous/wrong/racist.

is this serious?

Oh yea I was about to edit in the last line of the skit where you inevitably end up calling me a racist. Good one!

Eulogy: All music = rap or rock

Oh yea I was about to edit in the last line of the skit where you inevitably end up calling me a racist. Good one!

Eulogy: All music = rap or rock

Please tell me what genres of music you listen to that lack references to drugs or a promotion of "shallow values."

i mean you dont see a bunch of douchebag rockers driving up and ally blasting rock music whilst shooting people. but you do see a bunch of people who listen to rap doing the same thing while blasting music that is talking about shooting people. there's a huge connection here.

what the fuck are you talking about

clearly problems of gang violence in inner city ghettos only arose because TI got popular.

you're both idiots.

i guess all the people trying to blame marilyn manson for columbine were spot on, too. my eyes have been opened!

Please tell me what genres of music you listen to that lack references to drugs or a promotion of "shallow values."

all genres of music talk about it you idiot, but the only "genre" that preaches it and brainwashes people with it is rap. for heavens sake, don't you get it? this is simple and it scares me how people don't see it. people connect with this fucking music because they have nothing, and they see their friends and family doing so. the music talks about "get money, shoot bitches, sell drugs" so people are going to follow it in hopes of achieving the only life they think is attainable, the life they hear about in these rap songs. it's a huge problem.

what the fuck are you talking about

are really you this short sighted? it's elementary 1 + 1

all genres of music talk about it you idiot, but the only "genre" that preaches it and brainwashes people with it is rap. for heavens sake, don't you get it? this is simple and it scares me how people don't see it. people connect with this fucking music because they have nothing, and they see their friends and family doing so. the music talks about "get money, shoot bitches, sell drugs" so people are going to follow it in hopes of achieving the only life they think is attainable, the life they hear about in these rap songs. it's a huge problem.

clearly problems of gang violence in inner city ghettos only arose because TI got popular.

you're both idiots.

.

what the fuck does that mean?

also where are all the recent popular rap tunes that are about shooting people? you guys make it seem like every rap or hip hop song is about random acts of violence. that's simply untrue.

but you can't tell me that an army of people (black AND white) who dress and talk and think almost exactly the same due to the rap culture isn't a bad thing? i mean christ, shooting people is cool now because rap condones it. i hate the indie music culture too but really those people are just pussies

i guess im also racist because i can see the forests for the trees

Oh man oh man. I have to say, my comment does not point a finger at any particular race. Just look at ICP: total meaningless dredge made by white guys, for the purpose of selling this shit to idiots. ICP was asked a question about this, and their answer was something like "We have a warehouse full of ICP merchandise and people wanna buy it... so that's what we do!"

If anything, I was hinting at the socio-economic culture that creates this type of ethos, and that rises above race. White trash can rap too.

And as for the comments about this trend carries over into all forms of music/art--yes, that's true. But it seems that the very nature of rap/hip-hop is exploitation for $$$. It's very design. That's why I say there's a 20-80 split of artists to entrepreneurs. In rock, I'd say it's more 60-40 to artists and entrepreneurs--you just are exposed to that 40% more than the 60%.

Just my opinion.

what the fuck does that mean?

it means you're an idiot for blaming gang violence in ghettos on rap music.

it means you're an idiot for blaming gang violence in ghettos on rap music.

rap, lack of an education and the lack of a strong figure in a persons life.

also where are all the recent popular rap tunes that are about shooting people? you guys make it seem like every rap or hip hop song is about random acts of violence. that's simply untrue.

this is wayyy beyond the point here. come on you dolt

it means you're an idiot for blaming gang violence in ghettos on rap music.

But you'd be just as much of an idiot for not seeing that a lot of rap music champions that sort of behavior. Snake-eating-tail.

rap, lack of an education and the lack of a strong figure in a persons life.

lol and if you were to break it down into percentages, how much would you attribute to "rap?"

Please tell me what genres of music you listen to that lack references to drugs or a promotion of "shallow values."


i'm waiting, slunken

What redman is saying is that rap is perpetuating a negative stereotype that kids eat up and think "Yeah, this is how I should act."

lol and if you were to break it down into percentages, how much would you attribute to "rap?"

oh boy. there's a deep underlining problem here, and rap only makes it worse.

But you'd be just as much of an idiot for not seeing that a lot of rap music champions that sort of behavior. Snake-eating-tail.

back to my initial point, that lots of music in every genre promotes bad behavior. why does rap get discounted more than the others?

What redman is saying is that rap is perpetuating a negative stereotype that kids eat up and think "Yeah, this is how I should act."

And what I'm saying is that yes Hannah Montana is just as guilty of this but one is inherently more dangerous than the other.

The real question Eulogy, why are you so sensitive about this?

Please tell me what genres of music you listen to that lack references to drugs or a promotion of "shallow values."

i'm waiting, slunken

I didn't think you were serious. Really don't feel like getting into a pissing contest based on "what I listen to is much better than what you listen to".

I didn't think you were serious. Really don't feel like getting into a pissing contest based on "what I listen to is much better than what you listen to".

isn't this how people assume things work anyways?

I didn't think you were serious. Really don't feel like getting into a pissing contest based on "what I listen to is much better than what you listen to".

it's entirely relevant here. you're dismissing an entire genre of music based on the fact that some people in said genre "promote shallow values." if that's your litmus test, I'm genuinely curious as to what genres are deemed acceptable by you.

it's entirely relevant here. you're dismissing an entire genre of music based on the fact that some people in said genre "promote shallow values." if that's your litmus test, I'm genuinely curious as to what genres are deemed acceptable by you.

he explained this in the hannah montana point

The real question Eulogy, why are you so sensitive about this?

About white guys claiming that rap music is to blame for inner city violence in minority populations?

I dunno, because I'm not an asshole?

I mean is there any consideration given to the idea that maybe rap music arose out of the environment instead of the other way around like you're asserting?

he explained this in the hannah montana point

it's disingenuous to use her as an example. i can just as easily throw out will smith as my example for the genre of rap. see it's totally harmless! he just likes partying in miami!

what?

About white guys claiming that rap music is to blame for inner city violence in minority populations?

I dunno, because I'm not an asshole?

I mean is there any consideration given to the idea that maybe rap music arose out of the environment instead of the other way around like you're asserting?

A) What do you even know about inner-city violence? Because let me tell you, I know exactly how their minds work. And this mainstream rap reinforces the ethos that is created from their upbringing.

B) Actually, I DID say rap music is a product of this environment. Go back and re-read my post.

it's entirely relevant here. you're dismissing an entire genre of music based on the fact that some people in said genre "promote shallow values." if that's your litmus test, I'm genuinely curious as to what genres are deemed acceptable by you.

I gotcha - but I'm not only talking about "promoting shallow values". If this were the only issue at hand then American Idol is just as guilty. It's the drugs and violence (an illegal lifestyle) lumped on top of all that that really gets to me.

And like I said early on - I am fully aware that I'm blanketing the entire genre based on the bad apples but I honestly believe that the bad strongly outweighs the good therefore it's my right to dismiss it all.

I'm not trying to convert anyone to Christianity here.

A) What do you even know about inner-city violence? Because let me tell you, I know exactly how their minds work. And this mainstream rap reinforces the ethos that is created from their upbringing.

B) Actually, I DID say rap music is a product of this environment. Go back and re-read my post.

I don't really know what you're trying to get at with A, but as for B, that comment was meant more for the other two.

I gotcha - but I'm not only talking about "promoting shallow values". If this were the only issue at hand then American Idol is just as guilty. It's the drugs and violence (an illegal lifestyle) lumped on top of all that that really gets to me.

And like I said early on - I am fully aware that I'm blanketing the entire genre based on the bad apples but I honestly believe that the bad strongly outweighs the good therefore it's my right to dismiss it all.

I'm not trying to convert anyone to Christianity here.

why can't you give me an example of a genre where the bad doesn't outweigh the good?

country western, maybe? they talk a lot about alcohol in those though so i dunno. jazz?

A) What do you even know about inner-city violence? Because let me tell you, I know exactly how their minds work. And this mainstream rap reinforces the ethos that is created from their upbringing.



also this reminds me of tom cruise and the whole "i know the history of psychiatry" thing. you've cornered the market on what causes inner city violence? congrats, bro. there's a lot of ethnographers and sociologists who probably want to hear from you.

I don't really know what you're trying to get at with A, but as for B, that comment was meant more for the other two.

http://forums.netphoria.org/wwwboard/confused.gif This thread is getting too confusing...

also this reminds me of tom cruise and the whole "i know the history of psychiatry" thing. you've cornered the market on what causes inner city violence? congrats, bro. there's a lot of ethnographers and sociologists who probably want to hear from you.

If only you knew.

why can't you give me an example of a genre where the bad doesn't outweigh the good?

country western, maybe? they talk a lot about alcohol in those though so i dunno. jazz?

Surf.

eulogy is just another reason the worlds falling to shit

why can't you give me an example of a genre where the bad doesn't outweigh the good?

country western, maybe? they talk a lot about alcohol in those though so i dunno. jazz?

Kind of funny you mention those cos I have been listening to quite a bit of 30s Western Swing lately, which is (if you don't know) jazz and country/western combined.

eulogy is just another reason the worlds falling to shit

ok samuel redman

Kind of funny you mention those cos I have been listening to quite a bit of 30s Western Swing lately, which is (if you don't know) jazz and country/western combined.

now was that so difficult

About white guys claiming that rap music is to blame for inner city violence in minority populations?

I dunno, because I'm not an asshole?

I mean is there any consideration given to the idea that maybe rap music arose out of the environment instead of the other way around like you're asserting?

Hey, have you realized the irony yet, that we're posting this shit in a thread about... The Suburbs?

The real irony, for me, is that I listen to a lot of pre-war country blues and I was thinking the other day: "What separates this from rap music being made nowadays?"

I couldn't really find an answer :hanging:

I don't think it's irony. Just... sad.

Where's that thread where I insist that bluegrass and metal are the same thing?

hey guys lets talk about arcade fire again instead of arguing with nincompoops about the value of rap music

hey guys lets talk about arcade fire again instead of arguing with nincompoops about the value of rap music

Hey! Who you callin a nincompoop!?!

everyone that ruined this thread

Hunting Bears is the shit.

my final word on The Suburbs is this:

Yes, as an album it's too long, and it suffers for it.

But I also think that it's very different to the last two records in its tendency not to rely on short, punchy riffs and motifs (ala Power Out, Wake Up, Keep The Car Running, etc.) to make each song easy to identify, which lends it quite a bit of repeat listening value: i'm still exploring the disc, finding little nuances of each song that i'd missed before, and as I do so it's growing on me more and more. Funeral, as amazing as that album is, I pretty much had memorized by the tenth spin.

I'm not saying there's not filler on this record, or that some judicious editing wouldn't have helped it a lot, but i'll definitely say that it's a great album.

i think that's a very good analysis.

i was also thinking that we were both kind of banging on how this isn't much of a departure for them but the more i listen, the more it seems like a half step between the stuff they did before and a more streamlined almost new wave sound. I'm thinking Sprawl II is one of their more adventurous tracks to date and perhaps it hints that they'll break the mold for #4.

fine, arcade fire are just another in a long line of indie trash

everyone that ruined this thread

A thread about The Suburbs? Kinda ruined itself.

Oh, yeah, Amnesiac is great... for an album of b-side-worthy songs.


Hahahahahaha holy shit man

Not much. Or not enough to keep me hooked. When I tended bar the guy I shifted with was really into it (he DJ's it as well - like most hipster bartenders lol) but I just couldn't get into it. I just don't have the time to pick through a barrel of shit to find one shiny diamond.

The only way I can listen to rap music is to treat it like a stand-up comedy album: there's a lot of profanity and some of the jokes are repeatable.

Okay that comment was really directed at cocksure, but alright

i mean you dont see a bunch of douchebag rockers driving up and ally blasting rock music whilst shooting people. but you do see a bunch of people who listen to rap doing the same thing while blasting music that is talking about shooting people. there's a huge connection here.

So, by implication, Columbine WAS Marilyn Manson’s fault? answer this please, don't dodge it.

A) What do you even know about inner-city violence? Because let me tell you, I know exactly how their minds work.

“their” what exactly do you mean by “their”? Niggers, right?


ugh

So, by implication, Columbine WAS Marilyn Manson’s fault? answer this please, don't dodge it.





in some ways im sure, but not in the huge scheme of things, but ill say yes just to make you happy, okay toots?

in some ways im sure, but not in the huge scheme of things, but ill say yes just to make you happy, okay toots?

awful

maybe to your average human being

why don't you blame rappers for Columbine? aren't GUNS and SHOOTING PEOPLE all that they sing about?

the problem with your/slunken/soniclovenoize's opinions about rap is, none of you know what the fuck you're talking about.

have you listened to anything from the mid-late 80's/early 90's? De La Soul, EPMD, Eric B & Rakim, Biz Markie, Boogie Down Productions, A Tribe Called Quest, Big Daddy Kane, Marley Marl, Nice & Smooth, Kool G Rap, Pete Rock & C.L.Smooth, Main Source, Arrested Development....man, i could go on forever. NONE of these guys ever sung about shooting people, or drugs.

your problem is that you think artists like TI represent the whole genre, which simply isnt true.

maybe to your average human being

you ARE the average human being. don't pretend otherwise.

you ARE the average human being. don't pretend otherwise.

ill take that as a compliment coming from a person such as you

ill take that as a compliment coming from a person such as you

awww thanks redman!

"a person such as me", oh how i wonder what you mean by that

why don't you blame rappers for Columbine? aren't GUNS and SHOOTING PEOPLE all that they sing about?

the problem with your/slunken/soniclovenoize's opinions about rap is, none of you know what the fuck you're talking about.

have you listened to anything from the mid-late 80's/early 90's? De La Soul, EPMD, Eric B & Rakim, Biz Markie, Boogie Down Productions, A Tribe Called Quest, Big Daddy Kane, Marley Marl, Nice & Smooth, Kool G Rap, Pete Rock & C.L.Smooth, Main Source, Arrested Development....man, i could go on forever. NONE of these guys ever sung about shooting people, or drugs.

your problem is that you think artists like TI represent the whole genre, which simply isnt true.

they didn't have to sing about those things back then, the culture shifted

they didn't have to sing about those things back then, the culture shifted

so guns and violence didnt exist in the late 80's? wow, okay, i had no idea.

they existed, dont kid yourself

they existed, dont kid yourself

yeah, no shit. so what's your point?

yeah, no shit. so what's your point?

that they didn't have to write about shooting up thugs because it wouldn't have sold as well as today

that they didn't have to write about shooting up thugs because it wouldn't have sold as well as today

no, they chose to write about other things instead. that music sold because it was GOOD.

the reasons as to why certain artists sell more than others today, is a completely different can of worms.

To pretend that rap is the same now as it was in the 80s is ridiculous.

no, they chose to write about other things instead. that music sold because it was GOOD.

the reasons as to why certain artists sell more than others today, is a completely different can of worms.

no i agree

To pretend that rap is the same now as it was in the 80s is ridiculous.

what i am saying, slunken, is that you cannot lump every single artist in the genre under the same umbrella.

ill take that as a compliment coming from a person such as you

and what do you mean by this? i don't think i'm THAT bad a person

and what do you mean by this? i don't think i'm THAT bad a person

i don't know a thing about you

why don't you blame rappers for Columbine? aren't GUNS and SHOOTING PEOPLE all that they sing about?

the problem with your/slunken/soniclovenoize's opinions about rap is, none of you know what the fuck you're talking about.

have you listened to anything from the mid-late 80's/early 90's? De La Soul, EPMD, Eric B & Rakim, Biz Markie, Boogie Down Productions, A Tribe Called Quest, Big Daddy Kane, Marley Marl, Nice & Smooth, Kool G Rap, Pete Rock & C.L.Smooth, Main Source, Arrested Development....man, i could go on forever. NONE of these guys ever sung about shooting people, or drugs.

your problem is that you think artists like TI represent the whole genre, which simply isnt true.

1) Did you read my original posts? I pretty much laid it all there: for every one of those rappers you mentioned, there are literally 200 "negative" rappers. Don't bother with the list, you know I'm right!

2) Listen, you don't know me and I don't know you, but trust me when I say I've seen first hand how this music perpetuates what these people think is the point of life. It reinforces a lifestyle they were guided into. It isn't just the rappers fault, but also the major labels and BET for pushing it. All those artists you mentioned, you ask some 19 year old kid on the corner who claims he's a Stone, he'll be "What the fuck?"

3) TI doesn't reprisent the whole genre, just 80% of it. Again, go back and read my orignal posts.

4) You guys are putting words in our mouth now. I cant blame rappers for Columbine because I'm not sure those kids were listeneing to TI, now were they? ;) But seriously, this "negative-rap" is only part of a larger problem. Those Columbine kids, if instead they were listening to fucking Clouds Taste Metallic all day instead of Portrait of an American Family, would things have been different? I don't know, probably not. But it was one piece of the puzzle. I don't think Manson should have been blamed, but he could at least have stepped back and realized that yeah, I'm feeding this negative music to kids hungry for it, maybe I can try to sell some positive music? Could I use my power for something positive instead of negative? But no, that won't sell. And Manson is one of the biggest phonies there is, so whataya expect? Fuck him.

5) Sorry, I've always felt that, while having some great songs on it that should have been on Kid A, Amnesiac is still full of what would equate to their B-sides. The Bends and OKC both had really strong songs; they left the subpar ones to the B-sides. That is one thing I always admired about Radiohead--Smashing Pumpkins too! But Amnesiac? Sorry guys.

1) Did you read my original posts? I pretty much laid it all there: for every one of those rappers you mentioned, there are literally 200 "negative" rappers. Don't bother with the list, you know I'm right!

3) TI doesn't reprisent the whole genre, just 80% of it. Again, go back and read my orignal posts.

yes, i read your posts, but i'm sorry, these two statements are simply not true. YOU HAVENT HEARD AT LEAST 50% of the genre, so how can you make such blanket claims?


4) You guys are putting words in our mouth now. I cant blame rappers for Columbine because I'm not sure those kids were listeneing to TI, now were they? ;) But seriously, this "negative-rap" is only part of a larger problem. Those Columbine kids, if instead they were listening to fucking Clouds Taste Metallic all day instead of Portrait of an American Family, would things have been different? I don't know, probably not. But it was one piece of the puzzle. I don't think Manson should have been blamed, but he could at least have stepped back and realized that yeah, I'm feeding this negative music to kids hungry for it, maybe I can try to sell some positive music? Could I use my power for something positive instead of negative? But no, that won't sell. And Manson is one of the biggest phonies there is, so whataya expect? Fuck him.
.

go and listen to Portrait, then come back and tell me if you think the underlying messages of that album ******* shooting people. "Get Your Gunn", for instance, a song about the killing of an abortionist, is a statement AGAINST violence.

See? more ignorance. Manson is a master of social commentary. Ignore the hog shit he puts out nowadays. To even implicate him in that tragedy is utterly irresponsible. remember this - for those TWO kids who shot some other kids up, there are TWO MILLION other Manson fans out there who choose not to shoot people.

what i am saying, slunken, is that you cannot lump every single artist in the genre under the same umbrella.

I agree 100%. What I'M saying is that the rap music I'm exposed to (via DJ's, radio, or TV - which is no different than the rap any casual listener would be exposed to) does not entice me in the least bit to further investigate the genre. It in fact makes me loathe it. That's all. I'm not on a crusade here.

I did enjoy me some Furious Five back in the day tho. And I tune into Michael 5000 Watts' show on 97.9 Houston from time to time.

I agree 100%. What I'M saying is that the rap music I'm exposed to (via DJ's, radio, or TV - which is no different than the rap any casual listener would be exposed to) does not entice me in the least bit to further investigate the genre. It in fact makes me loathe it. That's all. I'm not on a crusade here.

I did enjoy me some Furious Five back in the day tho. And I tune into Michael 5000 Watts' show on 97.9 Houston from time to time.

yes exactly man, this affirms what i am saying - ignorance. it's not necessarily your fault, it's just the way the industry works.

I just don't like when you say the word ignorant. As if I'm unaware that there's perfectly good hip-hop music out there. Is it ignorance if I just don't care about it? I think apathetic would be a better descriptor.

ignorant - lack of knowledge - it applies, here.

i'm not trying to use it against you, in a derogatory fashion.

But I think I have the knowledge, I just choose to ignore it. Anyway no worries.

if you had the knowledge, you wouldn't make such blanket statements.


NO WORRIES

YOUR OPINION OF MY KNOWLEDGE OF RAP WORRIES ME

yes, i read your posts, but i'm sorry, these two statements are simply not true. YOU HAVENT HEARD AT LEAST 50% of the genre, so how can you make such blanket claims?




go and listen to Portrait, then come back and tell me if you think the underlying messages of that album ******* shooting people. "Get Your Gunn", for instance, a song about the killing of an abortionist, is a statement AGAINST violence.

See? more ignorance. Manson is a master of social commentary. Ignore the hog shit he puts out nowadays. To even implicate him in that tragedy is utterly irresponsible. remember this - for those TWO kids who shot some other kids up, there are TWO MILLION other Manson fans out there who choose not to shoot people.

Thanks Hardcore, I needed a laugh! :D

*crickets*

on the other hand i am a big fan of limp bizkit

Attempt to be witty all you want, your post seriously made me lol.

If you think MM is a "master of social comentary," it's you who are the ignorant one.

Oh, Hardcore don't bother replying... you ARE ignorant:

Lunchbox

on we plow
the big bully try to stick his finger in my chest
try to tell me, tell me he's the best
but i don't really give a good goddamn cause
i got my lunchbox and i'm armed real well
i got my lunchbox and i'm armed real well
i got my lunchbox and i'm armed real well
i wanna grow up
i wanna be a big rock and roll star
i wanna grow up
so no one fucks with me
i got the pencils in my pocket, try to put me down
wanna go out, gotta get out
to the playground, gonna throw down at the playground
i wanna go out
next motherfucker gonna get my metal
next motherfucker gonna get my metal
next motherfucker gonna get my metal
next motherfucker
pow pow pow, pow pow pow, pow pow pow, pow pow pow
i wanna grow up
i wanna be a big rock and roll star
i wanna grow up
so no one fucks with me

Marilyn Manson always represented what America was, through himself

Oh, Hardcore don't bother replying... you ARE ignorant:

Lunchbox

on we plow
the big bully try to stick his finger in my chest
try to tell me, tell me he's the best
but i don't really give a good goddamn cause
i got my lunchbox and i'm armed real well
i got my lunchbox and i'm armed real well
i got my lunchbox and i'm armed real well
i wanna grow up
i wanna be a big rock and roll star
i wanna grow up
so no one fucks with me
i got the pencils in my pocket, try to put me down
wanna go out, gotta get out
to the playground, gonna throw down at the playground
i wanna go out
next motherfucker gonna get my metal
next motherfucker gonna get my metal
next motherfucker gonna get my metal
next motherfucker
pow pow pow, pow pow pow, pow pow pow, pow pow pow
i wanna grow up
i wanna be a big rock and roll star
i wanna grow up
so no one fucks with me

yep, so tell me what that song is about?

he actually based the song Lunchbox on his childhood at that catholic school, and his lunchbox he would bring daily

i'm waiting for soniclovenoize to answer, seeing as he knows all

oh, sorry about that

no no, you're adding weight to my argument here, don't you worry

as long as youre happy

Haha. Alright. :rolleyes: I'm not gonna argue interpretation of a song, nor argue what MM--the biggest farce in showbusiness in the last 20 years--said it was written about. I don't believe a word that man says. He's like a modern-day PT Barnum. A sucker's born every minute? Well, he's got a lot of fans, if you know what I mean. He's successfully conned you into calling this "social comentary"? That's fine. To each his own, man.

I guess you're always gonna see what you want to see. I'm really sorry that you're getting all sensitive now that I've clued you in how you've been suckered all along.

i'm waiting for soniclovenoize to answer, seeing as he knows all

Dude, it's a burdon. You don't want this weight. :(

In Lunchbox MM totally raps the verses.

In Lunchbox MM totally raps the verses.

:D FTW

Haha. Alright. :rolleyes: I'm not gonna argue interpretation of a song, nor argue what MM--the biggest farce in showbusiness in the last 20 years--said it was written about. I don't believe a word that man says. He's like a modern-day PT Barnum. A sucker's born every minute? Well, he's got a lot of fans, if you know what I mean. He's successfully conned you into calling this "social comentary"? That's fine. To each his own, man.

I guess you're always gonna see what you want to see. I'm really sorry that you're getting all sensitive now that I've clued you in how you've been suckered all along.

ignorance really is bliss.

No but seriously, I got to get some sleep; I work at 4am. So lets all just agree to disagree. Or just post that youtube clip of Circulatory System that is supposed to make me feel salty or something.

But you know what? FUCK IT I'm gonna give The Suburbs another chance tonight!

ignorance really is bliss.

I wouldn't know, but I am for some reason really happy.

why don't you blame rappers for Columbine? aren't GUNS and SHOOTING PEOPLE all that they sing about?

the problem with your/slunken/soniclovenoize's opinions about rap is, none of you know what the fuck you're talking about.

have you listened to anything from the mid-late 80's/early 90's? De La Soul, EPMD, Eric B & Rakim, Biz Markie, Boogie Down Productions, A Tribe Called Quest, Big Daddy Kane, Marley Marl, Nice & Smooth, Kool G Rap, Pete Rock & C.L.Smooth, Main Source, Arrested Development....man, i could go on forever. NONE of these guys ever sung about shooting people, or drugs.

your problem is that you think artists like TI represent the whole genre, which simply isnt true.

hi

just so you know KRS-One was all about guns.

<img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lRncxb7CTug/SM1fBQEbbeI/AAAAAAAACFc/Fx1EfKz9ZIg/s320/BDP+-+By+All+Means+Necessary.jpg">

and then there's the Criminal Minded album cover but you get the idea

Not to derail your point but saying BDP wasn't about guns is really kind of silly.

But, these guys are tools, why do you waste your words? the trio of them, i mean i don't necessarily dislike slunken he's ok as far as snobby obscurists go, samuel redman hates everything and has nothing positive to say ever because he's a basement dweller and soniclovenoise is the prototypical tiresome know-it-all. I mean there's a post on the SP board where he says you can "clearly" hear billy's guitar on the right and james's on the left or whatever. He's fucking toxic shoot him out of a fucking cannon.

yeah, he's holding a gun, but "Stop The Violence", bro, Doesn't he talk about that on "My Philosophy", anyway?

i thought my philosophy was on the album after By Any Means Necessary when he actually decided to put the guns down because *gasp* maybe that's why his DJ got shot.

we're on the same page though, dude. and i love me some gangsta shit anyway. I've knocked over 3 liquor stores this week because I was listening to Lil Wayne.

bottom line is that people don't wish to look at the underlying decay of america, especially in the ghettos and would much rather blame the messenger. It's remarkable that racists still think that the music is influencing the hood rather than the fact that the ghettos in america are often brutal and uncompromising and these guys identified with the NWAs, Tupacs, and Biggies because they reflected their reality as opposed to De La Soul who grew up in suburban long island. No, the racist says "oh these nig---african americans are just emulating what they see on tv!" to a certain extent that's true but then again, it's the same MM/Columbine cypher. While the art has influence, it is not the driving force. To suggest that it is, suggests that black america is completely and totally without free will, and hence my claims of flat racism on the part of those who will just bag on rap because they don't even want to listen to it because it's "black". They can justify it all they want but that's the real reason, they don't want to assmiliate, they don't want to know, they want to just point the finger.

Not to say De La Soul is any less legitimate. They kick arse.

just checked my copy of 'By All Means Necessary', and My Philosophy is the first track on side A.

fucking sick record. might put it on now

LOOKITDATPELICANFLY

just checked my copy of 'By All Means Necessary', and My Philosophy is the first track on side A.

fucking sick record. might put it on now

i'm embarrassed to admit that the production is too lean for me to get into the old stuff.

the reasons for ghettos/disproportionate crime stats etc go WAY back anyway, it's not a 21st century creation

oh dude i know

What's Goin On?, amirite?

but no it's all T.I.'s fault because he's wild like the taliban.

yeah, kind of.

this shit will lead us back to the politics board anyway

i wish it was in my hip hop thread

/exit. heading there now

soniclovenoise is the prototypical tiresome know-it-all. I mean there's a post on the SP board where he says you can "clearly" hear billy's guitar on the right and james's on the left or whatever. He's fucking toxic shoot him out of a fucking cannon.

:rofl:

90% of your posts are like that too! How are you any different from me?

bottom line is that people don't wish to look at the underlying decay of america, especially in the ghettos and would much rather blame the messenger. It's remarkable that racists still think that the music is influencing the hood rather than the fact that the ghettos in america are often brutal and uncompromising and these guys identified with the NWAs, Tupacs, and Biggies because they reflected their reality as opposed to De La Soul who grew up in suburban long island. No, the racist says "oh these nig---african americans are just emulating what they see on tv!" to a certain extent that's true but then again, it's the same MM/Columbine cypher. While the art has influence, it is not the driving force. To suggest that it is, suggests that black america is completely and totally without free will, and hence my claims of flat racism on the part of those who will just bag on rap because they don't even want to listen to it because it's "black". They can justify it all they want but that's the real reason, they don't want to assmiliate, they don't want to know, they want to just point the finger.

Not to say De La Soul is any less legitimate. They kick arse.

Listen, I'm not gonna debate you since you A) are putting words in my mouth and B) don't bother reading my posts to begin with. I have said none of this. I've already CLEARLY said in this thread it's not rap's fault and I've also CLEARLY said it's not a race thing.

BTW Sorry about your neg rep, I wish I could take it back. You're not a fucking idiot. Just a little naive. Feel free to PM me if you wanna talk about your feelings.

So have a nice day. I'm done with this debate since you're like the third person to misread me and put words in my mouth.

lol this thread. has anybody pointed out yet that hiphop is music and can be liked without even listening to the lyrics at all?

please elaborate on this

i know you know a shitload about music, but how much "intellectual" hip hop have you really heard?
oh mostly german stuff my friends try to get me into

don't get me wrong i like a tribe called quest as much as the next guy but that's mostly because they used interesting samples etc.

that "smart" "awareness of social issues" thing many people try to pull off through hiphop to me often seems to compromise the quality of the actual music. it's not a problem just of rap by any means tho

:rofl:

90% of your posts are like that too! How are you any different from me?



Listen, I'm not gonna debate you since you A) are putting words in my mouth and B) don't bother reading my posts to begin with. I have said none of this. I've already CLEARLY said in this thread it's not rap's fault and I've also CLEARLY said it's not a race thing.

BTW Sorry about your neg rep, I wish I could take it back. You're not a fucking idiot. Just a little naive. Feel free to PM me if you wanna talk about your feelings.

So have a nice day. I'm done with this debate since you're like the third person to misread me and put words in my mouth.

nah i didn't read any of your bs because most of your "points" are defending your own ignorance so you really don't have any leg to stand on whatesoever.\

and i'm different than you because i use logic and reason and i don't defend my right to be an ignorant fool.

I really thought Hardcore was talking to me but only now do I see that it was directed at Cocksure.

:(

nah i didn't read any of your bs because most of your "points" are defending your own ignorance so you really don't have any leg to stand on whatesoever.\

and i'm different than you because i use logic and reason and i don't defend my right to be an ignorant fool.

OK, cool.

I have heard of this logic and reason thing before. I find it stifles creativity for the most part.

Fucking ignorance how does it work?

you look like a tool dude

OK

it's entirely relevant here. you're dismissing an entire genre of music based on the fact that some people in said genre "promote shallow values." if that's your litmus test, I'm genuinely curious as to what genres are deemed acceptable by you.

this southern white boy is clearly very violent:
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I'm going to hang out with him next week. I hope we get to shoot something.

He name-dropped Wilco?

I went to high school with a dude who's on Rhymesayers. He's doing duets with POS and I'm... posting on Netphoria. :(

A) What do you even know about inner-city violence?

Lol, what do YOU know about inner-city violence? are you some kind of gangster? Do you have a rap band?

here's a cool song that combines Miley, ICP and white-boy rap all in one.
Cant we just get along?

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There is good music and bad music, not good genres and bad genres.
There is popular music and underground music. Generally they are split on the good / bad axes too.
If it was mainstream it would probably be pretty shit, as with the music most of us here listen to.
Rap is a current trend, adopted by a pre-existing demographic. It's not the end all to all gang violence or something. Lots of other genres went through their phases, from hair metal, dirty rock, punk and rave. Raves very essensce was tied to drug use. Whatever. People are shit. Shitty people make music. It doesn't define the person, just an aspect of their aural pleasures.
Ultimately if you're going to pull a trigger you need to work through a few steps between 'MAN THIS RAP IS SO GOOD' to 'I'MMA BUST A CAP, FOR REALS' and assigning that responsibility to music takes it out the hands of the one commiting the crimes.


PS: So, this new arcade fire eh?

He name-dropped Wilco?

I went to high school with a dude who's on Rhymesayers. He's doing duets with POS and I'm... posting on Netphoria. :(

yah, he does that.
In this song he re-interprets Modest Mouse Lyrics:
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think abortions are most violent when the fetus fights back.

There is good music and bad music, not good genres and bad genres.
and i always thought genres "contained" music

it's perfectly fine to dismiss an entire genre. i don't listen to nazi rock or swing music for example

there are good nazi rock bands but you just choose to not listen to them because you're PREJUDICED!

Danke.

there are good nazi rock bands but you just choose to not listen to them because you're PREJUDICED!

I'm PREJEWD.

Rococo fucking rules, btw. Weird because on the first listen of this album I don't think I liked it very much.

This whole thing has grown on me, actually.

Rococo fucking rules, btw. Weird because on the first listen of this album I don't think I liked it very much.

This whole thing has grown on me, actually.

yeah, i still didn't even like this album much after three or four listens, but i love it now.

i only ever listened to neon bible like once and a half. hmm.