View Full Version : OMG...the Billy article in RS.


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Rickpat12
03-03-2010, 05:02 PM
Some heavy shit. And it turns out "false but fun to pretend" IS ACTUALLY NOT PRETEND OR FALSE.

Billy Corgan on Pumpkins’ Split, “Loving” Jessica Simpson: Preview the Story : Rolling Stone : Rock and Roll Daily (http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2010/03/03/billy-corgan-on-pumpkins-split-loving-jessica-simpson-preview-the-story/)

Mo
03-03-2010, 05:03 PM
Billy fired him last year.

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2010/03/03/billy-corgan-on-pumpkins-split-loving-jessica-simpson-preview-the-story/
http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/board/index.php?showforum=2

Rickpat12
03-03-2010, 05:05 PM
Gotchya by a minute.

Corganist
03-03-2010, 05:07 PM
Oh boy. This is going to be a fun thread.

Mo
03-03-2010, 05:13 PM
What a fucking cunt BC turned into... And I was so hopeful during the Zwan era.
Gah.

Caine Walker
03-03-2010, 05:14 PM
mo's thread was better.

Slurpee
03-03-2010, 05:16 PM
If he really was so stupid as to fire Jimmy, the best alternative rock drummer of all time, from his alternative rock band, then it is all over for SP. No hope. Bad management is bad management. We need a new GM for our rockband franchise.

Is there anyway we can hold open auditions for a new Billy Corgan?

Caine Walker
03-03-2010, 05:19 PM
now now, i'm sure he had a really good reason for firing jimmy.

Kahlo
03-03-2010, 05:21 PM
Holy fuck, did I misread this? He is talking about firing JC in the 90s ...right? :(

Mo
03-03-2010, 05:22 PM
now now, i'm sure he had a really good reason for firing jimmy.

Maybe he didn't want to join his fucking sect. Or go vegan. Gah.

Rickpat12
03-03-2010, 05:23 PM
mo's thread was better.

:erm:

Slurpee
03-03-2010, 05:26 PM
I bet we could get james jimmy and d'arcy.

We could even recruit Matt and Melissa to be on the bench (opening every show, I suppose, and helping out on the epic jams).

We just need a new singer. Maybe Stephen Lynch is up for it?

Catherine Wheel
03-03-2010, 05:30 PM
I like that career suicide line. Funny stuff.

I really hope that Jimmy wasn't fired for a second time.

Kahlo
03-03-2010, 05:32 PM
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Corganist
03-03-2010, 05:36 PM
It's amazing to me how quickly the canonical Netphorian SP narrative has shifted from "Jimmy left the band voluntarily to get away from Billy's idiocy," to "Billy's such an idiot that he forced Jimmy to leave the band against his will" in just a few minutes. :D

That said, I hope Billy had a good reason for firing him (and say what you will about the guy, but he's never been the type to act arbitrarily when it comes to personnel). I can't say I'm thrilled he's airing more dirty laundry out in Rolling Stone of all places, but if it clears up misinformation, then so be it.

Kahlo
03-03-2010, 05:40 PM
Izzle (unsurprisingly) is saying that Billy is fucking with us all.

dustrock
03-03-2010, 05:42 PM
zoicks. firing jimmy.

if it's anything other than drug use....

Slurpee
03-03-2010, 05:42 PM
Izzle (unsurprisingly) is saying that Billy is fucking with us all.

That's what you call "naming an album Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness," not "making up lie after lie about the lives and works of many artists and insulting your fans in the process"

Mablak
03-03-2010, 05:44 PM
It's amazing to me how quickly the canonical Netphorian SP narrative has shifted from "Jimmy left the band voluntarily to get away from Billy's idiocy," to "Billy's such an idiot that he forced Jimmy to leave the band against his will" in just a few minutes. :D

That said, I hope Billy had a good reason for firing him (and say what you will about the guy, but he's never been the type to act arbitrarily when it comes to personnel). I can't say I'm thrilled he's airing more dirty laundry out in Rolling Stone of all places, but if it clears up misinformation, then so be it.

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8845/corganrules.gif

Kahlo
03-03-2010, 05:44 PM
zoicks. firing jimmy.

if it's anything other than drug use....

Hmm, we don't know their personal dynamic. Firing however sounds so different from 'going their seperate ways' - I really don't think it would be a decision taken lightly.

dustrock
03-03-2010, 05:48 PM
right, we're always looking through a glass darkly, but "firing" suggests some inappropriate behaviour on the part of Jimmy.

DaveKShape
03-03-2010, 05:52 PM
in all likelihood, corgan probably just told jimmy to "get lost" in a pass-aggressive manner. then, jimmy had too much class to smear corgan or bring to light what happened.

i'm just saying.

Caine Walker
03-03-2010, 05:52 PM
someone go get this fucking magazine already. jeez.

Rickpat12
03-03-2010, 05:54 PM
I tried picking it up at the Walgreens near my campus...they still had the old one up.

srt4b
03-03-2010, 05:58 PM
is anyone surprised?

Kahlo
03-03-2010, 05:58 PM
This is all some elaborate joke.

New Art Rioter
03-03-2010, 06:03 PM
From the Twitter feed of the author of RS article -

Dear confused Pumpkins fans: Yes, Billy says in the story that he fired Jimmy Chamberlin in 2009. 8 minutes ago via web

Seems hard to misinterpret as the MCIS firing. Should be an interesting read

samuel redman
03-03-2010, 06:06 PM
ill be honest. i love Billy Corgan, and i agree with many things he says and the many aspects of the way he choses to live his life.

you all can can go rot

Rickpat12
03-03-2010, 06:09 PM
he contemplated suicide again?

New Art Rioter
03-03-2010, 06:10 PM
I'm guessing it's a 'firing' as Jimmy clearly wasn't into it, but doggedly sticking with Billy through some sense of loyalty, at the cost of following his own musical intuition and spending time with his family.

samuel redman
03-03-2010, 06:12 PM
how can people say all those fucking horrible things about Billy on that site, and this site. im about to flipping lose it. just, you're all fucking trash

Rickpat12
03-03-2010, 06:13 PM
KB's tweets directed at Courtney Love seem to be proof that we may have another lawsuit on our hands.

Elvis The Fat Years
03-03-2010, 06:17 PM
why would they talk about jimmy leaving the first time, that's old news.

they wouldn't. shambles has shit for brains.

Caine Walker
03-03-2010, 06:20 PM
they wouldn't. shambles has shit for brains.

this is true.

srt4b
03-03-2010, 06:28 PM
The only thing left to comment is this: The man has serious mental issues and needs some help or some better people around him. I loved the guy and his music in my early 20s so I hope he gets some. The last 10 years have been an utter mess.

june_soma
03-03-2010, 06:36 PM
I can't say I'm thrilled he's airing more dirty laundry out.

I am! I love tattle-tale Corgan. Bring on the dirty laundry, underwear with skidmarks and all!

Caine Walker
03-03-2010, 07:46 PM
ew.

vbshlofbvgos
03-03-2010, 07:50 PM
He's been quiet for too long. He just had to talk shit again.

srt4b
03-03-2010, 07:53 PM
He's been quiet for too long. He just had to talk shit again.

it's been what 3 weeks?

Mayfuck
03-03-2010, 07:55 PM
Can anyone point to anything concrete that suggest mental issues or ''mess'' in the last 5 years? Can't say I like Billy Corgan at all anymore but these replies once again drive me toward sympathy for the man. Many of you don't think your posts out but thats not surprising.

Rider
03-03-2010, 07:59 PM
Can anyone point to anything concrete that suggest mental issues or ''mess'' in the last 5 years? Can't say I like Billy Corgan at all anymore but these replies once again drive me toward sympathy for the man. Many of you don't think your posts out but thats not surprising.

The fact that he wants to commit suicide every morning.

paranoid
03-03-2010, 08:06 PM
so billy fires jimmy and jimmy decides to make a two paragraph post citing his own personal reasons for leaving?

i'll read the article first but i've got a fishy feeling corgan is lying.

paranoid
03-03-2010, 08:12 PM
Can anyone point to anything concrete that suggest mental issues or ''mess'' in the last 5 years? Can't say I like Billy Corgan at all anymore but these replies once again drive me toward sympathy for the man. Many of you don't think your posts out but thats not surprising.

"I could eat breakfast or kill myself this morning." maybe not a concrete sign of a total mental mess, but he is crying out for help as far as i'm concerned. Read a handful of his EFHTT posts and he often speaks of himself as being lonely. I can see why someone may interpret him as being miserable.

Slurpee
03-03-2010, 08:14 PM
he contemplated suicide again?

Wouldn't you?

daevil1
03-03-2010, 08:33 PM
I bought the magazine and Billy did indeed fire Jimmy in 2009 because he felt that Jimmy's destructive personality was still evident and couldnt reach his creative peak with someone destructive around. Also of note is some new song titles including The Dauphine, Blurricane, Fate the Lonely Actor, and a familar one As Rome Burns!. He has written over 50 songs and claims to have 10-15 super top level ones which he planned to scatter them with all the non super top level ones but has now decided to put them to the front of the line and write more songs. I would suggest reading the whole article as it's really a good read.


One more good info is that he sold the rights to "Today" to Visa to buy his own studio and allow him to be free and release all the music for free as he is doing now.

slunken
03-03-2010, 08:41 PM
super top level ones

:billy:

paranoid
03-03-2010, 08:41 PM
could you post a transcript?

and destructive personality still evident? I really, really find that hard to believe.. but if Billy says it, it must be the truth!

daevil1
03-03-2010, 08:43 PM
could you post a transcript?

and destructive personality still evident? I really, really find that hard to believe.. but if Billy says it, it must be the truth!

The article is literally 4 full pages long so it would be too much to post a transcript.

srt4b
03-03-2010, 08:44 PM
I just pucke it up. I'll scan it in a few if no one else has.

srt4b
03-03-2010, 08:46 PM
The more I read, the more I want to puke.


I am at the part where he is crying for hours after some dude touched him.

You Said
03-03-2010, 08:49 PM
Jimmy you go to rehab! James get the fuck out of here!

Catherine Wheel
03-03-2010, 08:54 PM
The Smashing Pumpkins are the biggest train wreck of a band ever.

Pop Tart
03-03-2010, 08:54 PM
....i've got a fishy feeling corgan is lying.
I'm at the point where I think he'll do or say anything to get publicity. I know that's a horrible thing to say, but it feels true. The Jessica Simpson thing seemed like a publicity stunt, but she got all the attention, so now he's got to blather for his fifteen minutes in the spotlight.

Seriously, he'd be much better off if he bought a rocking chair and a porch, and sat around and reminisced. It'd be a lot easier on all of us. He wouldn't be making such a dick of himself, and we'd feel less pissed off that a former hero - and someone who was worth looking up to - is now nothing but a fucking toss pot.

paranoid
03-03-2010, 09:13 PM
also, was he suggestion jimmy was still using drugs during the machina era? it seems like the total opposite of what has been believed over the past 10 years.

in his 2005 confessions, he pretty much spoke positively about chamberlin, even when speaking about his drug binges during the SD recording era. He panned on james and darcy non stop though.. speaking of how terrible they were as people. But now Jimmy's out of the picture he's speaking ill of his past within the band.. going so far as saying he still had destructive behavior up to last year.. and honestly the evidence seems to prove otherwise. Jimmy seemed to be way, way beyond that point, and had grown into a new person. He spoke a great deal about it in that Chris Issack interview.

i'm going to conclude that BC is full of shit.

Catherine Wheel
03-03-2010, 09:19 PM
Not only is he full of shit but he seems determined to alienate himself from everyone who was in the original group.

Slurpee
03-03-2010, 09:26 PM
THE BLURRICANE!!!

Gish08
03-03-2010, 09:29 PM
Billy Corgan is a helpless child with a severe psychological disorder.

Fuck him for firing Chamberlin last year. That's it. I'm done with this motherfucker. At best, I will be cautiously (and VERY cautiously) indifferent about anything he does.

It's a fucking shame; even in 2007 he could do amazing things (Gossamer etc.), but honestly, he completely collapsed last year artistically. He finally burned himself out.

But... really, though? Firing Jimmy Chamberlin? Does he not realize how vital he is to the band for it to carry on under the Smashing Pumpkins name, not only because there were no other original members left, but because he's basically one of the best, if not the best drummers to come from the 90's pool of rock bands? And on top of that, he plays a huge role in making the band what it is unless Billy's playing something extremely mellow and/or bland like all of this recent music he's been shitting onto his shrinking fanbase. Adore was an exception to the rule because it was a skillfully executed departure album with a well-planned live tour. Billy isn't that smart anymore, I'm afraid. For all of the big ideas he has about everything, he's pretty fucking stupid for not being able to realize this.

I really wish he'd just stop making music at this point. I don't think he has anything left to offer that's worth much beyond a "well, it's okay" type of comment.

I tip my hat off to him for doing amazing things for basically 25 years, but everyone burns out, and Billy finally did. He is indeed correct for stating that he deserves credit regardless of what the Pitchforks of the world may say, but lately, Pitchfork and co. may finally have enough justification to run with, up until a year or two ago, what were primarily outlandish claims against a man who was insanely talented.

I have a lot of respect for Jimmy. It takes a lot to just take a deep breath, walk away from the band, and blame it on creative differences rather than lashing out at the man he helped carry to great heights (more than either James or Darcy) for firing him for absolutely no good reason. Remember, Chamberlin said only four months prior to getting axed that SP is something that he would consider to be a life commitment, so I'm sure he was feeling pretty awful when Billy replaced him with a 19 year old who has absolutely no talent whatsoever.

I hope Billy and his poor excuse for a drummer get booed off the stage when he finally figures out when to tour again.

Future Boy
03-03-2010, 09:30 PM
blurricane is the worst part of this whole thing

Slurpee
03-03-2010, 09:41 PM
blurricane is the worst part of this whole thing

No. The worst part about this whole thing is that I am not really surprised by The Blurricane. Par for the course.

srt4b
03-03-2010, 09:43 PM
I have it scanned you guys still need?

RollingStone1
03-03-2010, 09:45 PM
mag.pdf (http://www.mediafire.com/?mmig2zm34nm)

Aneeah
03-03-2010, 09:46 PM
I have it scanned you A still need?

yes please

Order 66
03-03-2010, 09:52 PM
"destructive behavior"...... That and he was in "poor health" and went weeks without showing up....

pretty sure Jimmy relapsed. I mean really what else can you take from that? '

srt4b
03-03-2010, 09:54 PM
http://www.mediafire.com/?mnom4mflwal

Springbridge
03-03-2010, 10:03 PM
Jesus H Christ. What happened to "brothers in music'? stated in the back of the Zeitgeist album booklet. "Jimmy couldn't reach his creative peak". So he gets a kazoo and hums We only come out at night.

srt4b
03-03-2010, 10:03 PM
If I am reading this correct, Bill just said "What the fuck was I doing?" referring to Zeitgeist sucking.

redbull
03-03-2010, 10:23 PM
mercury/arsenic/lead poisoning? LOL

Lucy Faringold
03-03-2010, 10:24 PM
Just read this...

Sounds like Jim got fed up with the way Billy handled things on the last tour and lost his enthusiasm so Billy fired him. I really don't think Billy would fire Jimmy unless he had to, he more than anyone knows how irreplaceable he is. Plus Jimmy's weak-ass comments about "Music is such a small part of people's lives now" do make it sound like he's burned out to some extent. Fucking sad to read about the bust up too.

Billy does come out of it sounding pretty lost though, what with all the Shaman/therapy stuff but I think it's positive that he still feels like he has something to prove to the world.

Three other points:

- Billy needs to stop hanging with Pete fucking Townshend.

- Billy needs to stop talking about James fucking Iha.

- Tulin sounds like the best dude. Billy did well to snag him.

Araneae
03-03-2010, 10:25 PM
"destructive behavior"...... That and he was in "poor health" and went weeks without showing up....

pretty sure Jimmy relapsed. I mean really what else can you take from that? '

He was referring back to the early 90's not in 2008/2009.

pale_princess
03-03-2010, 10:27 PM
as much as i respect james, darcy & jim, hell, even melissa taking the high road, i'd realllllllly like to hear their sides of the stories.

redbull
03-03-2010, 10:28 PM
this is seriously the most fucking offensive thing i've ever read. fuck billy corgan

redbull
03-03-2010, 10:29 PM
HOLY FUCKING LOL BILLY MESSAGED TILA TEQUILA ON MYSPACE

Pizza Club
03-03-2010, 10:33 PM
Billy Corgan might as well have pissed in my face. Fuck you Billy Corgan. Fuck you in your fucking ass.

samuel redman
03-03-2010, 10:34 PM
FUCK all of you. get lost. just fucking get lost, you're all trash. i cant stand it.

lucid_interval
03-03-2010, 10:38 PM
can everyone stop fucking swearing!

pale_princess
03-03-2010, 10:41 PM
i hate myself for wanting to spend actual $ on the magazine. shaun white's on the cover no?

srt4b
03-03-2010, 10:43 PM
FUCK all of you. get lost. just fucking get lost, you're all trash. i cant stand it.

IF YOU DON'T FUCKING LIKE IT, CHANGE THE MOTHERFUCKING INTERNET CHANNEL.

srt4b
03-03-2010, 10:44 PM
Also, I would pay upwards of 5k to hear Jimmy letting out 20 years of pent up anger towards Corgan.


I am not joking.

Araneae
03-03-2010, 10:50 PM
What was with the Tila bit in the article? It seemed so awkward and out of place. And now it seems like Kerry and Billy are suiting up to sue Courtney. What has happened to these people?

srt4b
03-03-2010, 10:53 PM
I like how Bill totally denies Tila and when interviewed her story is the exact opposite of Corgan's.

Did he not know they were going to call her for a comment? Maybe he doesn't care?

Lucy Faringold
03-03-2010, 10:55 PM
And now it seems like Kerry and Billy are suiting up to sue Courtney. What has happened to these people?

Come on man, everyone's suing Courtney these days. Try it, you might like it!

paranoid
03-04-2010, 01:14 AM
"destructive behavior"...... That and he was in "poor health" and went weeks without showing up....

pretty sure Jimmy relapsed. I mean really what else can you take from that? '

that 'didn't show up for weeks' comment was in reference to the siamese dream recording days.. pre first jimmy firing.

sounds like jimmy disagreed with his grouchy attitude during the '08 tour, and billy fired him as a result.. placing the blame of destruction on jims shoulders. incredible that he will throw away such a strong friendship and musical relationship in favor of his ego.

paranoid
03-04-2010, 01:18 AM
and what's with him calling jimmy unhealthy when he himself is fatter than fuck these days? what a tool.

Araneae
03-04-2010, 01:27 AM
and what's with him calling jimmy unhealthy when he himself is fatter than fuck these days? what a tool.

http://leisureblogs.chicagotribune.com/.a/6a00d8341c58f853ef0120a8bb3f00970b-pi

paranoid
03-04-2010, 01:30 AM
look at that glutton!

Caine Walker
03-04-2010, 01:35 AM
article was a lolfest.

i'm calling it again: dude's gonna off himself.

paranoid
03-04-2010, 01:43 AM
article was a lolfest.

i'm calling it again: dude's gonna off himself.

it's headed there. i don't want to see that happen but unless he gets some REAL fucking help he's in trouble.

Ol' Couch Ass
03-04-2010, 01:53 AM
This article is one of the most pathetic things I've ever heard. Billy Corgan really seems like a sad, spiteful and lonely individual who has plugged himself into a group of people who will take advantage of him and leave him lower than he's ever been. Perhaps it's what he deserves. What a dick.

paranoid
03-04-2010, 01:57 AM
I wonder if Jimmy's 'unleashing' was actually him just giving billy the total ass kicking he deserves. How's that for destructive behavior, bitch? bet your dad didn't beat you as hard as this!

paranoid
03-04-2010, 01:58 AM
ew that was kinda mean. i take that back.

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 02:04 AM
The Smashing Pumpkins are the biggest train wreck of a band ever.

I know, and they have been broken up for 10 years! :smoke:

EyesOfAJackal
03-04-2010, 02:07 AM
I wonder if Jimmy's 'unleashing' was actually him just giving billy the total ass kicking he deserves. How's that for destructive behavior, bitch? bet your dad didn't beat you as hard as this!

I mean honestly, what if all that he went through as a child (whatever that entailed) was both what allowed him to emotionally express and connect with all of us (and millions of others) so incredibly well, as well as what makes him incapable of forming reasonable lasting relationships / handle criticism?


It certainly seems like it would take some incredible circumstances to be able to wring out a (assuming earnestness) song like Disarm or Blank Page or STRTJ, and maybe those are the kind of circumstances that completely mess you up in other ways.

Esty
03-04-2010, 02:08 AM
Fuck, I've been calling it for years. But I get faggots like davin, monte, corganist, crapatricia, kahlo, izzle and on and on always finding some stupid fucking reason to defend this cocksucker.

Its such a shame that corgan is reduced to this. I hope he kills himself and the list of those shitheads I posted before feel terrible for the rest of their shitty lives.

Springbridge
03-04-2010, 02:32 AM
This new information regarding Jimmy sucks…but no matter what happens from here with SP, good or bad, fans will be there expressing their discontent for a band they claim they don't like or care about anymore. What shows is they are still very passionate about this band if they feel so strongly about everything SP does.

It's all just starting to sound like pretend hate (like how an angry girlfriend acts to her boyfriend when she is pissed at him. She doesn't actually hate him but only says that she does.) People being super negative and overly dramatic about the things SP and Billy Corgan does, are the same people who cannot wait to see what the next song will sound like, probably clicking the refresh button on SP.com and losing several minutes of sleep at night over it.

I guess we will continue to have a seething disapproval with Billy Corgan and all his music but will always and until the end of time spend our moments listening to his music, expending our energy to him and his actions, and probably even secretly go to his concerts.

Esty
03-04-2010, 02:37 AM
After reading your post, now I really, really, really want him to kill himself.

Araneae
03-04-2010, 02:40 AM
After the past few years and especially after reading this article, as mean as this might be, Billy should never ever have children.

dustrock
03-04-2010, 02:41 AM
the whole Jimmy thing sounds almost Scientologist in nature: get rid of anyone around you who criticizes you being a Scientologist, because their negative thoughts can actually harm you.

brilliant way of keeping people in the cult.

the kinda sad thing is that he's obviously intelligent and at certain points, he is very self-aware, but it's like he either can't help it, or he somehow enjoys pushing people away.

I've stopped being angry at all the ridiculous stuff he's been saying for the last 10 years and now I really just feel sad for him.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 02:45 AM
I know it's to be expected from me by this point, but I honestly don't think Billy came off too badly here. Yes, he comes off as kinda sad and pathetic in the knowledge that he's viewed as a has-been. And it goes double because he seems completely oblivious to the fact that his hippy-dippy Source family New Age bullshit undermines anything else he might do to be taken seriously by the mainstream again. He definitely wants to have his cake and eat it too, and it just defies reality. But the guy's not fucking delusional. He knows where he stands these days. He just doesn't like it and doesn't know how to change it. But that's not an unusual or dire circumstance. And it's sadly hilarious that so many of you think so little of the guy that you think this period of the guy's life would be the one that'd break him.

As for Jimmy, I don't see how anyone can sit here with a straight face and defend his comments, regardless of what Billy may have done on the 2008 tour or even through the whole band's career. Look, it's one thing to be passionate about music and the band's direction to the point that you just can't work with someone else and have to go your own way (either by choice or not). But clearly that's not what happened here. Like James and like D'arcy, Jimmy just doesn't give a shit about music anymore, period. It's not a fucking coincidence that Billy has constantly been putting out music since the end of SP, both with and without Jimmy, and we've seen jack shit in the way of output from the other three members. I mean, Jimmy's been out of SP for a year now, and what's he done? A drum clinic or two. James has had a decade to do something, anything, and the most he could muster was a short stint with A Perfect Circle, what, 7 or 8 years ago? And poor D'arcy...what is there to say?

You can say "I just couldn't stand by while Billy destroys SP," and still be the good guy. You can say "I'm more passionate about my own music now and want to focus on that," and still be the good guy. You can say "I have a family now and want to be off the road," and still be the good guy. But you can't say "music is such a small part of people's lives now," (i.e., "I don't give a shit anymore and neither should you") and still be the good guy, because that's just fucking bullshit.

Esty
03-04-2010, 02:46 AM
Go fuck yourself Corganist.

Araneae
03-04-2010, 02:48 AM
As for Jimmy, I don't see how anyone can sit here with a straight face and defend his comments, regardless of what Billy may have done on the 2008 tour or even through the whole band's career. Look, it's one thing to be passionate about music and the band's direction to the point that you just can't work with someone else and have to go your own way (either by choice or not). But clearly that's not what happened here. Like James and like D'arcy, Jimmy just doesn't give a shit about music anymore, period.


So not fucking true. Jimmy has stated several times, at drum clinics and interviews, recently no less, how important music is to him and his family. He even started up another band and they are recording and planning on touring this year.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 03:03 AM
So not fucking true. Jimmy has stated several times, at drum clinics and interviews, recently no less, how important music is to him and his family. He even started up another band and they are recording and planning on touring this year.

But then he tells Rolling Stone that it's not that important, so there's that. But perhaps it was unfair of me to lump Jimmy in with James and D'arcy right off. Jimmy did put out the Complex album back in 2005, and I'm fairly confident that we will hear some musical output from him from time to time. (Whereas I doubt we'll ever hear the followup to Iha's Let It Come Down.)

But nevertheless, I think Jimmy's comments smack of a distinct lack of passion. And that's okay if that's what he wants. But I just don't know why we as fans of these guys' music should embrace that and value it over Billy's drive to spend time in the studio and on the road to make great music. Between the guy who is settling for "riding around in a white van" and the guy who is "spending months painstakingly recording music," why would we side with the former over the latter?

Corganist
03-04-2010, 03:11 AM
Onto another thought...

I was somewhat encouraged by the Teargarden talk in the article. I was happy not only that As Rome Burns may still be in the running to make it, but that Billy seems to imply that he had been holding the "A" material back a bit so far. I suspect that once we get Astral Planes out of the way next month, the quality of the next few tracks will be much improved, as Billy seems to want to begin bringing out the big guns, so to speak.

Future Boy
03-04-2010, 03:14 AM
I dont know what to think. Hes stupid for cutting Jimmy off like that, and thats a stupid fucking reason. But at the same time, I really hope Bill gets his shit worked out. Even if he never releases anything, old or new again. The dude still sorta means a lot to me personally. Even though the music sucks now and hes a douche.


But nevertheless, I think Jimmy's comments smack of a distinct lack of passion. And that's okay if that's what he wants. But I just don't know why we as fans of these guys' music should embrace that and value it over Billy's drive to spend time in the studio and on the road to make great music. Between the guy who is settling for "riding around in a white van" and the guy who is "spending months painstakingly recording music," why would we side with the former over the latter?

I took Jimmys lack of enthusiasm being in how Corgan goes about recording. Its important to him, but it doesnt have to be the non-stop Corgan grind. It sucks, I always though Jimmy could go back at some point. There goes that.

Future Boy
03-04-2010, 03:22 AM
maybe thats why

russian iha
03-04-2010, 03:29 AM
As for Jimmy, I don't see how anyone can sit here with a straight face and defend his comments, regardless of what Billy may have done on the 2008 tour or even through the whole band's career. Look, it's one thing to be passionate about music and the band's direction to the point that you just can't work with someone else and have to go your own way (either by choice or not). But clearly that's not what happened here. Like James and like D'arcy, Jimmy just doesn't give a shit about music anymore, period.

You can play a sober-minded Corgan apologist as long as you want, but fuck you, JCC long-play was an amazing record, better than anything BC has released lately. Jimmy's drumming was uptight and powerful even on those garageband songs. The guy totally gives a shit about MUSIC and not about all the additional junk like album releasing schemes, autobio's writing, pushing songs to video games and fans staring at your cover.

As for the interview, it's probably the worst thing I've ever read in my life. I wanted to mention that the only thing I agree with BC is his hatred for indie rock douchebaggery, but I won't emphasize this, because it may come off as BC apology. Seriously, this is the end of all of the legacy. I really, really, really wish this cult-y, brainwashed, jesus-jerking, tmz-whoring, non-talented, denying has-been shitstain to fucking kill himself already, so the whole SP tale could have its ending at last.

jm9843
03-04-2010, 03:38 AM
So not true. Jimmy has stated several times, at drum clinics and interviews, recently no less, how important music is to him and his family. He even started up another band and they are recording and planning on touring this year.

This. Recording with RTB in D.C. I believe.

My take is that, after the 20th anniversary tour, Jimmy wasn't willing to commit to the huge time-sink that TBK would become. A project that may, or may not ever materialize. Corgan, ever the egomaniac, wasn't willing to compromise or seek out a genuine partnership moving forward. Jimmy had become "unhealthy", was going to be an albatross to Corgan's limitless creativity, and so had to be summarily dismissed.

Jimmy: "Fuck you"
Billy: "Fuck you, go ride in a white van for the rest of your life"
Jimmy: "Ok."
*click*

Billy only ever wanted Jimmy to just be "his drummer" which, I think, is exemplified by who was chosen to replace him. This was likely always the dynamic in SP, but it ain't 1992 no more.

blueEyez6489
03-04-2010, 03:42 AM
But then he tells Rolling Stone that it's not that important, so there's that. But perhaps it was unfair of me to lump Jimmy in with James and D'arcy right off. Jimmy did put out the Complex album back in 2005, and I'm fairly confident that we will hear some musical output from him from time to time. (Whereas I doubt we'll ever hear the followup to Iha's Let It Come Down.)

But nevertheless, I think Jimmy's comments smack of a distinct lack of passion. And that's okay if that's what he wants. But I just don't know why we as fans of these guys' music should embrace that and value it over Billy's drive to spend time in the studio and on the road to make great music. Between the guy who is settling for "riding around in a white van" and the guy who is "spending months painstakingly recording music," why would we side with the former over the latter?

jimmy lacks passion? really? have you ever seen him live? i think you're reading way into that little comment he made. it's not that music isn't important to him; i feel like what he was saying is analagous to how mtv used to play music videos all the time, while now it's all about reality shows and instant gratification. i feel like he was commenting more on mainstream society rather than himself personally.

also, it seems like billy is always trying to blame someone else for whatever goes wrong. he doesn't seem to realize that maybe, just maybe, he might be part of the problem. and just as someone above said, if it wasn't for his dysfunctional childhood, there would be no smashing pumpkins. they wouldn't have existed. accept it already and move on.

Starla
03-04-2010, 03:45 AM
Billy Corgan is a helpless child with a severe psychological disorder.

As are about 90% of the posters on this board.

Starla
03-04-2010, 03:49 AM
Billy is such a hateful bitter old man.

On His Spiritual Beliefs:
Corgan subscribes to the fashionable idea that we’re building to a cataclysm, or at least a major vibrational shift, in 2012; he wonders what was really in the H1N1 vaccine; he fears that the United States is headed toward a Soviet Union-style economic collapse…

Billy is secretly posting here as omega concern. Great.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 03:56 AM
You can play a sober-minded Corgan apologist as long as you want, but fuck you, JCC long-play was an amazing record, better than anything BC has released lately. Jimmy's drumming was uptight and powerful even on those garageband songs. The guy totally gives a shit about MUSIC and not about all the additional junk like album releasing schemes, autobio's writing, pushing songs to video games and fans staring at your cover.

You can spin and twist things so that Billy is the bad guy all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Jimmy just isn't as passionate about music as Billy is, period. The last year has borne that out more than clearly. Billy's writing songs. He's in the studio. He's released music. He got out and played shows. OTOH, Jimmy hid out for months and poked his head out for a drum clinic or two, but that's it.

Now, do I judge Jimmy for wanting to be less serious than Billy about all things musical? No. He and Billy are obviously in different places with different priorities. Jimmy is doing what's best for him, and whatever he does end up doing is probably going to be worth checking out. But really, I think the guy is too good to be satisfied with being small time, and I can't respect his decision to not even try to be more than that. He should be so much bigger than just some guy with a band, which apparently is all he cares to be.

Starla
03-04-2010, 03:59 AM
Billy's biggest problem is his "poor me" syndrome. He has spent way too many years feeling sorry for himself. I don't think this guy even wakes up in the morning and feels an ounce of gratitude for the things that he does have. he's treated his friends like shit...

there's not a cult in the world gonna help him from his piss poor outlook on life. he needs to grow up.

what I find most interesting is .. all of the years Billy has bitched and moaned about James Iha... talking shit whenever he can. He couldn't even be honest about firing Jimmy a year ago cause he's a big pussy and couldn't own up to it. He let people think that Jimmy left by choice.

Mablak
03-04-2010, 04:01 AM
Poor Bill, he keeps getting stuck with all these musicians who turn out to be terrible people, just bad luck I guess, no reflection on him. Even though he's been completely chummy with Jimmy for the past three years. Jesus what a despicable fuck. This really is a never-ending limbo contest, and that seems to be the only reason I'm even paying attention to SP, how low can he go.

And he really has unbelievably shitty taste in music, wow, maybe if he'd actually listened to one new band in the past decade, his music sensibilities wouldn't be in the shitter.

By the way, Mike Byrne, if you're starting to discover it would be a good idea to leave this psychopath before he kicks you out for being a destructive individual / loose cannon, then you should come back to Beaverton and hang out with me. I'll even let you be the drummer for my band if you get past the tryouts, link below.

null123
03-04-2010, 04:02 AM
Billy's behavior over the past couple years has been not unlike the downward spiral of a drug addict. this interview is like the part where he pawns his mother's wedding ring for $50 worth of coke. stooping so low for five minutes of payoff.

BC is completely approval-oriented. he's willing to sell any narrative that he believes will earn him approval and respect, and he's represented himself in so many disparate ways that his words have lost all meaning. one minute he's the anti-sellout, all about "the common man", the ordinary fan, connecting with the suburban malaise. when that idea no longer serves him, because it either violates the beliefs he holds onto in order to deal with the reality of his diminished status, or because it no longer is getting him attention, he moves on. then he gives the middle finger to the vulgar and ignorant commoners who don't understand his god-given talent. he sells a song to Visa to make a pathetically transparent statement about how money doesn't matter. he's stadium rock and then he's self-involved jam band. he's a rock star and then he's a serious, introspective poet. he has no values, no core, and he'll sacrifice everyone around him in an attempt to build himself up.

his entire identity is tied to what other people think of him, which obviously worked at least functionally well when his albums were going platinum. but now he's having to live in a world where not only do his albums not sell very well, but the mythology of rock no longer has much relevance in American culture. BC's whole paradigm was centered around the idea that rock 'n' roll "mattered", and how he knew it mattered was that millions of people said so. now that that's fallen apart, he's willing to listen to any bullshit artist who can come up with some justification for what he perceives to be a mistake. Billy never talked about god until religion could be used to give him a position of superiority over others. he now feels that god has given him a favored, prophet-like role as an artist, and it seems plain that somehow this is supposed to make up for the loss of such a role in the eyes of the public. it's not surprising that he went with this New Age Christianity, not traditional Christianity, nor Buddhism, nor Islam or any other such religion, because a strict adherence to any of those religions would offer no opportunity to give himself special worldly importance. they all teach of the humility and equality of man. (more or less)

when Billy made good music, it was when he could tap into the desperation and destruction of these feelings of inadequacy. he actually wallowed in them, and seemingly accepted them as an identifying feature of who he was. he rejects all of that now, probably because it was draining to live that way, but he'll never make the kind of music he used to, despite his skill. he's totally out of touch with himself now and the songs are all shit because of it. they're flat, emotionless and dishonest. I feel sorry for Billy, and I pity anyone who tries to convince themselves that they enjoy his music.

jimmy drevpile
03-04-2010, 04:08 AM
...I think Jimmy's comments smack of a distinct lack of passion. =

What does 'apoplectic' mean Corganist?

Future Boy
03-04-2010, 04:09 AM
post/av

edit: damn

wHATcOLOR
03-04-2010, 04:09 AM
bill really is a piece of shit. how dare he be like that to jimmy. talk about destructive, who is bill to talk. dude has destroyed everything. fuck bill, didn't think i could respect him any less, but here we are. long live jim, he didn't deserve that and deserves a medal for putting up with so much shit to help create some awesome music. long live jim

Jesus Cambodia
03-04-2010, 04:14 AM
Sometimes I have to step back for a second... What if people like Corganist are serious? Are you guys seriously into this dude this much? Or were you? Fascinating. God damnit I wish that grad student from Small California Town Technical College was writing his thesis on you fucking psychos. Someone needs to film a documentary about you fruitloops, seriously. Can you imagine film of the daily routines of these people? It'd be waaaaaaaaay better than Crumb was.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 04:21 AM
What does 'apoplectic' mean Corganist?

I think in this case it means "embarrassed about having his ass called out." It doesn't make me think that he really cares about making any impact with his music. And it's odd, because one could argue that he has more right to be cl******g for recognition he hasn't gotten than even Billy does. The guy should be considered the first name out of anyone's mouth when they're asked to name one of the best drummers going today, but he's not. And don't think for a second that Billy's crusade for mainstream acceptance didn't bear that in mind. I'd bet anything he wanted that return to fame and recognition for Jimmy just as much as he did for himself, and that's why he's so obviously pissed off and betrayed by the fact that Jimmy's turned so blase towards things.

Really, the only thing I can give Jimmy any credit for here is for having the guts to go on the record and try to dispute what Billy said, especially comparing what he said to the weak non-comment James provided. But I still don't think Jimmy helped himself at all here. All I see now is a guy who wants to make music as long as it's easy.

tweedyburd
03-04-2010, 04:21 AM
Charmbag wins.

Catherine Wheel
03-04-2010, 04:25 AM
I agree. Charmbag really said everything that needs to be said.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 04:27 AM
I don't see how anyone could have ever been a fan of Billy Corgan or his music in the first place if they really think that any of what Charmbag posted rings true.

russian iha
03-04-2010, 04:28 AM
Rep to Charmbag.

DiscoJon
03-04-2010, 04:39 AM
Between the guy who is settling for "riding around in a white van" and the guy who is "spending months painstakingly recording music," why would we side with the former over the latter?

Because Jimmy's 45 years old and chose to settle down with a wife and have a kid.

Unlike Billy, who obviously believes it's still 1995 and still thinks he's in his twenties, Jimmy chose TO GROW UP. Jimmy's not the one paling around with famewhores like Tila Tequila and no talent hacks like Linda Strawberry.

How many times has Billy publicly slandered James, D'arcy, and now Jimmy? I don't know about you, but I've lost count by now.

Now, ask yourself this (I want all you Corgan apologists to ask yourselves this) how many times in the last TEN YEARS have James, D'arcy, and Jimmy ever, EVER publicly slandered Billy Corgan?


I feel sorry for you Corganist, you've been brainwashed beyoned belief.

Catherine Wheel
03-04-2010, 04:42 AM
I think the difference between Corgan of the 90s and Corgan after the 90s is that after the 90s his narcissism prevented him from making good music at least within the Smashing Pumpkins. He became so competitive that it wasn't about making heartfelt music anymore. Its just about pleasing people.

redbull
03-04-2010, 04:45 AM
what is the oboard saying about this shit

Esty
03-04-2010, 04:51 AM
They're all a bunch of cocksuckers who now believe jimmy made the zeitshit era a failure.

Basically, stupid fucks like Corganist.

jczeroman
03-04-2010, 04:51 AM
Billy's behavior over the past couple years has been not unlike the downward spiral of a drug addict. this interview is like the part where he pawns his mother's wedding ring for $50 worth of coke. stooping so low for five minutes of payoff.

BC is completely approval-oriented. he's willing to sell any narrative that he believes will earn him approval and respect, and he's represented himself in so many disparate ways that his words have lost all meaning. one minute he's the anti-sellout, all about "the common man", the ordinary fan, connecting with the suburban malaise. when that idea no longer serves him, because it either violates the beliefs he holds onto in order to deal with the reality of his diminished status, or because it no longer is getting him attention, he moves on. then he gives the middle finger to the vulgar and ignorant commoners who don't understand his god-given talent. he sells a song to Visa to make a pathetically transparent statement about how money doesn't matter. he's stadium rock and then he's self-involved jam band. he's a rock star and then he's a serious, introspective poet. he has no values, no core, and he'll sacrifice everyone around him in an attempt to build himself up.

his entire identity is tied to what other people think of him, which obviously worked at least functionally well when his albums were going platinum. but now he's having to live in a world where not only do his albums not sell very well, but the mythology of rock no longer has much relevance in American culture. BC's whole paradigm was centered around the idea that rock 'n' roll "mattered", and how he knew it mattered was that millions of people said so. now that that's fallen apart, he's willing to listen to any bullshit artist who can come up with some justification for what he perceives to be a mistake. Billy never talked about god until religion could be used to give him a position of superiority over others. he now feels that god has given him a favored, prophet-like role as an artist, and it seems plain that somehow this is supposed to make up for the loss of such a role in the eyes of the public. it's not surprising that he went with this New Age Christianity, not traditional Christianity, nor Buddhism, nor Islam or any other such religion, because a strict adherence to any of those religions would offer no opportunity to give himself special worldly importance. they all teach of the humility and equality of man. (more or less)

when Billy made good music, it was when he could tap into the desperation and destruction of these feelings of inadequacy. he actually wallowed in them, and seemingly accepted them as an identifying feature of who he was. he rejects all of that now, probably because it was draining to live that way, but he'll never make the kind of music he used to, despite his skill. he's totally out of touch with himself now and the songs are all shit because of it. they're flat, emotionless and dishonest. I feel sorry for Billy, and I pity anyone who tries to convince themselves that they enjoy his music.

woa...

dudehitscar
03-04-2010, 04:52 AM
corganist is known for doing a great cut and paste job with the facts to fit whatever predetermined conclusion he has about someone.. just like on the politics board.

TuralyonW3
03-04-2010, 05:21 AM
Onto another thought...

I was somewhat encouraged by the Teargarden talk in the article. I was happy not only that As Rome Burns may still be in the running to make it, but that Billy seems to imply that he had been holding the "A" material back a bit so far. I suspect that once we get Astral Planes out of the way next month, the quality of the next few tracks will be much improved, as Billy seems to want to begin bringing out the big guns, so to speak.

Billy wanted to shop Widow Wake My Mind to radio stations. enough said.

Mo
03-04-2010, 05:28 AM
I quoted what Charmbag said on the O-Board - I wonder how long it will be until they remove it..

Order 66
03-04-2010, 06:40 AM
This really trashed the server eh....

Anyway I read the article. It really doesn't say too much new, only that the Jimmy departure was more acrimonious than previously thought. I think people need to put into perspective that working on a years long 44 track album is no easy feat. Its not really so much billy being a prick rather than jimmy just wasn't feeling it. I mean if music isn't important to him he should quit. Though I find that suspicious... He was at the drum clinic talking about how music is life blah blah ... but anyway my point is I don't think its black and white enough to lay blame on just billy. Just sounds like the two men spent too much time together and had to get away

Order 66
03-04-2010, 07:04 AM
Also re: new age stuff... I think he's just an armchair spiritualist. The aquarian gospel and ACIM teach god can only be found through complete forgiveness and disintegration of the ego. Neither of which he seems to subscribe to

russian iha
03-04-2010, 07:14 AM
I think people need to put into perspective that working on a years long 44 track album is no easy feat. Its not really so much billy being a prick rather than jimmy just wasn't feeling it. I mean if music isn't important to him he should quit. Though I find that suspicious... He was at the drum clinic talking about how music is life blah blah ... but anyway my point is I don't think its black and white enough to lay blame on just billy. Just sounds like the two men spent too much time together and had to get away

It's one thing to work on MCIS for two years, and TGBK isn't MCIS by any means. It's not even Chinese Democracy. It's a bunch of uninspired straightforward repetitive crap, not worth of two years of already shortening life. Jimmy deserves a lot more than that, even a subtle solo project is more productive than this.

After all I'm pretty sure Billy's redeeming songwriting and his ritualistic cultish gangbangs were the two main reasons for Jimmy to detach himself from the "band".

Order 66
03-04-2010, 07:44 AM
Whether teargarden is shitty or not is subjective though. Its a pretty intensive project.... Some 50 plus songs. In 1994 everybody was still in their 20s and their careers had yet to peak. And here you have a 40 something chamberlain with a wife and kid and heart problems. Its not really hard to see why he didn't want in.

That isn't to say Billy's douchiness didn't play a role. But people just want to focus on that and nothing else.

Order 66
03-04-2010, 07:47 AM
That and I think they simply spent too much time together.

Shallowed
03-04-2010, 07:56 AM
I would also like to know what the general concensus on the o-board is.

severin
03-04-2010, 08:32 AM
I would also like to know what the general concensus on the o-board is.
jimmy who?

sniffingchimp
03-04-2010, 08:37 AM
Jesus, the man doesnt know how to keep anything private. While it may make for interesting reading/scandal - for someone who he termed as is "brother in music" and best friend, he's really fucked him over in this article. What an absolute prick.

wounded
03-04-2010, 08:40 AM
i imagine jimmy was pretty frustrated with billy, mainly with touring. i mean the 20th anniversary tour was a shit show. jimmy seems like the kind of guy that would be like, hey let's write some new music, let's play some old tunes and give the fans a good show. fuck i'd get fed up and leave too. he is right. it isn't the 90's and people don't sit around and worship corgan anymore.

corgan seriously mismanaged this band. i mean look at his contemporaries, pearl jam, rhcp, nin. i bet it drives him nuts those acts still play huge arenas. Now i for one am all for making new music. and i understand the arguments in "if all goes wrong" that what is the point of coming back if you aren't going to make new quality music, but he completely alienated his fanbase. anyway i could see how jim wasn't having fun. particularly touring, and fuck when you get to 40 if you aren't having fun, why bother

now i give corgan credit for always changing the sound from album to album. I also agree that he actually doesn't get any credit where credit is deserved. but man, the guy drove this band into the ground

and everytime someone leaves they are a drug addict. guy is coo coo for coco puffs.

Order 66
03-04-2010, 08:53 AM
I think its worth mentioning that he could be gaming the press. Its a remote possibility. I mean... He's psychic now? Lol

chris1979
03-04-2010, 09:13 AM
I've been positive in the past mainly but I have to admit that I agree now: Billy is going bonkers.

Kahlo
03-04-2010, 09:17 AM
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redbull
03-04-2010, 09:19 AM
up next: billy sucks dicks for coke, guests on stage at tiesto concert

Kahlo
03-04-2010, 09:25 AM
haha, I wouldn't be suprised.

Oh well lets organise a boycott of all Smashing Pumpkins items. Someone set up a facebook group!

Cool As Ice Cream
03-04-2010, 10:13 AM
<img src="http://forums.netphoria.org/customavatars/avatar7406_1.gif" width="200%">

hey, what's going on in here?

is the complete interview available somewhere, or are we discussing those highlights?
edit: never mind, i found the scans on page 2... :rolleyes:

redbull
03-04-2010, 10:21 AM
theres a link to a pdf on the 3rd or 4th page

pale_princess
03-04-2010, 10:52 AM
how much of a tantrum do you guys think he threw when he saw shaun white on the cover and not him?

thomas_bland
03-04-2010, 10:58 AM
I wonder if this is why lisa is not involved in Teargarden, too close to Jazzy Jim for Bills liking?

Liking the new song titles though.

Dissing the tru' band makes him sound more like a bitter old cunt though.

Aneeah
03-04-2010, 11:12 AM
don't you think something's up when ALL of your band members from TWO bands are so called "destructive" ??? aka d'arcy, jimmy, james, pajo, sweeney, and paz

He hates all of them! That just says something about his character...I've read things on messageboards that say "well, Billy's been so unlucky dealing with "bad" bandmembers" Well that makes every single one of his band mates in both of his major bands a "bad" bandmember...now we don't know what happened behind the scenes, but something isn't right.

hnibos
03-04-2010, 11:22 AM
i feel for billy. go billy

Pizza Club
03-04-2010, 12:11 PM
don't you think something's up when ALL of your band members from TWO bands are so called "destructive" ??? aka d'arcy, jimmy, james, pajo, sweeney, and paz

He hates all of them! That just says something about his character...I've read things on messageboards that say "well, Billy's been so unlucky dealing with "bad" bandmembers" Well that makes every single one of his band mates in both of his major bands a "bad" bandmember...now we don't know what happened behind the scenes, but something isn't right.


I think this just speaks even more about Billy's character (in a negative way). I think the general consensus is that Jimmy's a pretty down-to-Earth, alright dude.

I really don't know what Billy is thinking.

Order 66
03-04-2010, 12:44 PM
He was thinking about dicks

Order 66
03-04-2010, 12:47 PM
that's what the lyrics mean. 'summers of discovery' refers to when he started getting into dicks

Pop Tart
03-04-2010, 12:57 PM
This thread's amazing. The RS article implied that Billy scours the web for every word that's ever queefed about him so I hope he reads this rather than the sycophant-ery going on at the o-boards. This place might get bagged for being negative, but you can't say that the average Netphorian isn't extremely intelligent and articulate. So many good points have been raised here. 10/10 :2thumbsup

New Art Rioter
03-04-2010, 01:11 PM
What an immensely depressing read. It's very clear that Mike, despite what Billy may say, was clearly hired as a way to snipe back at Jimmy. The man literally cannot let go of the past, and it's very transparent that he's utterly jealous of former bandmates having other things in their lives like family, as opposed to just music

Slurpee
03-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Why can I never find the Hitler "I like the clipping" image when I need it? It would be perfect for this *press* clipping.

Mo
03-04-2010, 01:32 PM
At your service

<img src="http://forums.netphoria.org/photoalbum/albums/userpics/14203/msots_evil.jpg">

dustrock
03-04-2010, 01:58 PM
there's quite a bit of criticism at the o-board, probably more than usual.

Caine Walker
03-04-2010, 01:59 PM
what are they saying?

CourtJaster
03-04-2010, 02:03 PM
Contrary to the speculations of an asshat the o-board isn't happy either.

They're pretty much taking a shit on Billy with only a few apologists crying in their cereal.

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 02:09 PM
themadcaplaughs says, "Well Billy it's been a good run, but it's time we bring things to an end now. I have no more interest in your future musical projects, although I appreciate all the good music you did make."

Showers says, "i love you Billy. thank you for clarifying all of this. now the useless "fans" will leave the boat. and people who can truely appreciate and love you and your music will be with you"

Bring_the_light says, "I agree with Billy. It's his fucking life, if he doesn't want to have jimmy in it then it's his call. yes we respect jimmy as a musician and sure billy does, but if they didn't get along anymore it makes sense to severe the ties."

thatguyblane says, "Interesting read but it's not going to stop me from listening to and enjoying his music. This Billy for better or for worse is the one who has created so much awesome music and this is all a part of what makes him tick."

perkinscowl says,"Ahhh. I never would read interviews and such and here's why. Now I'll continue to not read them, while using what spare time I have for the music listening."

CourtJaster
03-04-2010, 02:12 PM
Way to be selective.

Caine Walker
03-04-2010, 02:13 PM
you shut your fucking mouth.

CourtJaster
03-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Make me asshole.

CourtJaster
03-04-2010, 02:16 PM
*fart*

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 02:22 PM
Hey man, that thread is over 10 pages long, and I tried to pick the ones that weren't park of a quote train.

Caine Walker
03-04-2010, 02:22 PM
..said the gay and his computer.

talk about looking stupid. jesus christ, you're just awful.

Kahlo
03-04-2010, 02:33 PM
all too easy.

SPLATTER
03-04-2010, 02:38 PM
so the whole article isn't anywhere online yet?

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 02:38 PM
Don't make me cut you mickyshambles.

dad, dead
03-04-2010, 02:48 PM
how long can someone refer to their childhood for their shortcomings? at some point you become an able adult and take responsibility for your life, no?

Corganist
03-04-2010, 03:35 PM
Because Jimmy's 45 years old and chose to settle down with a wife and have a kid.

Unlike Billy, who obviously believes it's still 1995 and still thinks he's in his twenties, Jimmy chose TO GROW UP. Jimmy's not the one paling around with famewhores like Tila Tequila and no talent hacks like Linda Strawberry.

I'm not going to give Jimmy a gold star for losing his mojo and settling down. And I don't see why anyone else here would. As fans of the music these guys made together, I don't know why we would sit here and cheer on the person who is saying "let's settle, let's be small-time and put out music once in a while when we feel like it, because nobody really cares these days, right?" Fuck that. If Jimmy wants to be the family man and live happily ever after playing clubs and doing drum clinics once in a while, good for him. But as a fan of the Smashing Pumpkins that decision is not something I'm going to stand and applaud.

When it comes down to it, I want Smashing Pumpkins music to be taken more seriously, not less. And I think the consensus opinion on Teargarden thus far bears that out. Nobody here wants Billy to settle down with a family like a 40 year man should. We want him to buckle down in the studio and make the record right, which means going into the studio for the months of painstaking recording that Jimmy apparently doesn't have the heart for anymore. If Billy can't even put the proper focus he needs on recording now, how was he supposed to do it with Jimmy around sandbagging him because he wants to scale things back? Why are we praising Jimmy for all but giving up on making music of any scale, but at the same time demanding that Billy increase his efforts? It makes no sense.

How many times has Billy publicly slandered James, D'arcy, and now Jimmy? I don't know about you, but I've lost count by now.

For any of it to be slander, it has to be untrue...so the answer to your question is probably zero.

Now, ask yourself this (I want all you Corgan apologists to ask yourselves this) how many times in the last TEN YEARS have James, D'arcy, and Jimmy ever, EVER publicly slandered Billy Corgan?

When, other than Jimmy's responses in this article, have any of them come out and contradicted anything the guy has said in specific terms? I mean, if even half of what Billy's ever said about James is true, then James is a giant piece of shit who is directly responsible for the destruction of the band. But has ever stood up for himself? No. He barely even acknowledges he was ever in the band. He wouldn't piss on an SP fan if they were on fire, but somehow people leap to his defense, call his standoffish nature towards all things SP "the high road" and give him the benefit of the doubt. Why?

If Billy really slandered anyone, someone would have set the record completely straight by now. It's not like there hasn't always been a demand in the mainstream music press for dirt to support the asshole tyrant persona they've constructed for Billy.

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 03:38 PM
Dude, if I didn't have a family by the time I was 40, I would hang myself.

:hanging:

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 03:43 PM
You have a good point there.

ChristHimself!
03-04-2010, 03:56 PM
maybe jimmy was being polite in public because he still loves billy, but doesn't want to make music with him anymore because he realised he's turned into a creepy new age fucknodule

slunken
03-04-2010, 03:59 PM
Just put on my SP acoustic live playlist and am getting hell of sad.

1979 - live 1996 from Punch Drunk & Dizzy
Stumbleine - 1998-05-23
Perfect - Howard Stern 1998

It's over, isn't it?

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 04:04 PM
This time I need to know
I really must be told
If it's over

slunken
03-04-2010, 04:07 PM
*sniff* :(

Duke
03-04-2010, 04:10 PM
Corganist,

I don't think you're seeing the whole picture here. I read your posts and there just some things that you don't take into account.

1. Billy has had a lot of failed relationships within the past 10 years both professionally and personally. Never does he ever say any of them are his fault. It's always the other person, but the common equation in all of them is HIM. He's 42 years old now. Time to take some responsibility.

2. Noone wants SP to be irrelevant, but Billy's behavior in pursuit of being relevant has been at times unbearable. Lashing out at fans in concert, complaining in interviews, etc... I'm well aware he's always been this way, but he's stepped that up in the last 10 years. He creates the music. As he states in the article he's "99% of what you hear" so the burden rests on him to connect to the base and any other fans he's looking to reel in.

3. About Jimmy... Like many others here I don't believe what I read in the article. For the past 3+ years Billy was gushing about Jimmy all over the place. Now all of a sudden we're supposed to believe that Jimmy is this horrible, destructive person. They've known each other over 20 years. If he was so horrible BC would have never recruited him for Zwan or for the "resurrection" of the Pumpkins.

Bleakest Harves
03-04-2010, 04:11 PM
Can someone repost the article? Mediafire link is dead.

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 04:12 PM
There is only room enough here for one stewie.

Bleakest Harves
03-04-2010, 04:13 PM
Ok. And the article?

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 04:14 PM
What article?

Pop Tart
03-04-2010, 04:24 PM
maybe jimmy was being polite in public because he still loves billy, but doesn't want to make music with him anymore because he realised he's turned into a creepy new age fucknodule
Yeah, I don't think you could be friends with Billy - especially not for any length of time - without realising what he's like, and what he's capable of.

I keep having this image though, of Billy going up to Jimmy and saying, "I'm firing you," and Jimmy going, "Firing me from what?" I mean, does Billy own the SP name? Could Jimmy have fired Billy? It's just a name now - with nothing attached to it any more. There's no actual band. It's just Billy. "Hi Jimmy. I'm firing you from me."

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 04:30 PM
Jimmy: Give me several reasons why you want me out of the band.
Billy: I don't have to, I recorded SD by myself.
Jimmy: What does that have to do with anything
Billy: *kazoo solo*

DaveKShape
03-04-2010, 04:30 PM
a few things i noticed:

a) sweet obelisk on that table there bill! does it give you gnarly powers and channel you into sky saxon from beyond the grave? is he giving you some PSYCHIC advice through it?!?!?!

b) james iha - for billy claiming he's such a hateful and evil person, he's been a class act in the small amount he has commented on the pumpkins recently. while billy continues to shit on him and other past band members in the press, james has said these things (i'm paraphrasing) recently about billy/the pumpkins:

"billy is very talented" - john norris tinted windows interview

"we all had different opinions. i choose to remember the good times"

what an asshole!

Pop Tart
03-04-2010, 04:34 PM
Billy: *kazoo solo*
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

james iha - for billy claiming he's such a hateful and evil person, he's been a class act in the small amount he has commented on the pumpkins recently.
Absolutely!

I keep forgetting to mention that my favourite part of that article was "weak ankles". OMG! :rolleyes:

Corganist
03-04-2010, 04:35 PM
Corganist,

I don't think you're seeing the whole picture here. I read your posts and there just some things that you don't take into account.

1. Billy has had a lot of failed relationships within the past 10 years both professionally and personally. Never does he ever say any of them are his fault. It's always the other person, but the common equation in all of them is HIM. He's 42 years old now. Time to take some responsibility.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that Billy bears any responsibility in any of those relationships going south. We just don't know one way or the other, so it's ridiculous to hold it against him.

2. Noone wants SP to be irrelevant, but Billy's behavior in pursuit of being relevant has been at times unbearable. Lashing out at fans in concert, complaining in interviews, etc... I'm well aware he's always been this way, but he's stepped that up in the last 10 years. He creates the music. As he states in the article he's "99% of what you hear" so the burden rests on him to connect to the base and any other fans he's looking to reel in.

I can't find much to disagree with here, other than the idea that anything he's done recently is all that more ramped up than anything he's done before. I just don't see how people can keep doing their amateur psychoanalysis on Billy and presenting shocking findings like "Billy thrives on others' approval and cares a bit too much about what people think of him to the point that he actually turns people off!" as though such things are anything we haven't known since the mid-1990s.

3. About Jimmy... Like many others here I don't believe what I read in the article. For the past 3+ years Billy was gushing about Jimmy all over the place. Now all of a sudden we're supposed to believe that Jimmy is this horrible, destructive person. They've known each other over 20 years. If he was so horrible BC would have never recruited him for Zwan or for the "resurrection" of the Pumpkins.

Which is more likely? That Billy flipped a switch and decided out of the blue and for no reason that Jimmy was a destructive influence and needed to be turfed out? Or that maybe, just maybe, something specific happened on the last tour that made Billy come to that conclusion? Say what you will about Billy's ability to play with others, but he's never been known to be as arbitrary about such things as people here want to pretend he is.

jimmy drevpile
03-04-2010, 04:40 PM
Jimmy: Give me several reasons why you want me out of the band.
Billy: I don't have to, I recorded SD by myself.
Jimmy: What does that have to do with anything
Billy: *kazoo solo*


lol

DaveKShape
03-04-2010, 04:42 PM
man, he's done so much damage to his career in the past few years. it's going to be hilarious watching this shit ship sink further and further into obscurity.

russian iha
03-04-2010, 04:45 PM
Corgainst, B0llster can be INTO MUSIC to the point of rehearsing/recording 24/7 non-stop for years and die because of exhaustion, but in the end he comes up with dogshit like Widow Wake My Mind.

Non-caring Jimmy recorded JCC and his drum parts that can hardly be criticized apart of the songs they are recorded for.

russian iha
03-04-2010, 04:47 PM
In the end it's all about results and finished product.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 04:54 PM
In the end it's all about results and finished product.

Exactly what results has Jimmy produced since the split? Where is his product, finished or otherwise?

redbull
03-04-2010, 04:58 PM
are people actually responding to corganist?

install this firefox plugin: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7023

no more corganist, ever

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 05:01 PM
That is an oddly specific plugin.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 05:03 PM
are people actually responding to corganist?

install this firefox plugin: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7023

no more corganist, ever

That plugin is for pussies.

slunken
03-04-2010, 05:04 PM
I got your back, dawg.

russian iha
03-04-2010, 05:11 PM
Exactly what results has Jimmy produced since the split? Where is his product, finished or otherwise?

Keeping profile low > WWMM.

waltermcphilp
03-04-2010, 05:11 PM
That plugin is for pussies.

Exactly how many pussies will I get for downloading?

5?

16?

:)

paranoid
03-04-2010, 06:28 PM
"'m not going to give Jimmy a gold star for losing his mojo and settling down. And I don't see why anyone else here would. As fans of the music these guys made together, I don't know why we would sit here and cheer on the person who is saying "let's settle, let's be small-time and put out music once in a while when we feel like it, because nobody really cares these days, right?" Fuck that. If Jimmy wants to be the family man and live happily ever after playing clubs and doing drum clinics once in a while, good for him. But as a fan of the Smashing Pumpkins that decision is not something I'm going to stand and applaud." -Corganist

But you will stand and applaud billy basically saying he is accepting of his mediocrity and is no longer willing to put that extra energy into his music because it makes him crazy? I mean he's said that a few times in the past few months, are you conveniently forgetting that?

also.. you are completely misinterpreting jimmy's words. read it again and read it within the context of how he says it. i'd spell it out for you but you're a bit retarded, and everyone seems to agree with that sentiment.. so i'm not going to completely waste my energy.

paranoid
03-04-2010, 06:35 PM
also corganist, it's quite presumptuous for you to assume that what billy is saying is true. how the fuck do you know? you don't. you know as much as anyone else.

paranoid
03-04-2010, 06:37 PM
Exactly what results has Jimmy produced since the split? Where is his product, finished or otherwise?

if you had been paying attention, you'd know that he's spent the past year writing. He is currently recording with a new band and roy thomas baker right now. He's been as busy as billy, it just hasn't been as public.

Mayfuck
03-04-2010, 06:37 PM
The Radiohead dudes have kids now and are still putting out fresh music. Ditto the Animal Collective dudes. Even the shitty bros from Green Day have kids now and they still put out stuff that charts on radio stations. I don't think families are much a factor as Corganist is stating they are.

Plus Corganist is accusing us of conjecture while using conjecture of his own, "james wouldn't piss on his fans if they were on fire" what kind of statement is that, how is that even backed up by anything. i thnk we'd have a far easier time backing up that statement if you subsituted james for billy.

i dont know how corganist or anyone else can dispute what charmbag posted in this thread. he seems to not see the change in billy from 1993 to 2010 but its obvious to anyone else who's been paying attention.

slunken
03-04-2010, 06:44 PM
Congratulations on making a post without telling us how you're too good to post here.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 07:09 PM
But you will stand and applaud billy basically saying he is accepting of his mediocrity and is no longer willing to put that extra energy into his music because it makes him crazy? I mean he's said that a few times in the past few months, are you conveniently forgetting that?

I wouldn't applaud it if that was what he really said or if his actions ever started reflecting that attitude. I know what statements you're referring to, and I thought even at the time they were said that the interpretation that you're ascribing to them was bullshit. And I think this article now just underscores that.

also.. you are completely misinterpreting jimmy's words. read it again and read it within the context of how he says it. i'd spell it out for you but you're a bit retarded, and everyone seems to agree with that sentiment.. so i'm not going to completely waste my energy.

I don't see how he couldn't have been more clear. Jimmy doesn't want to be a rock star anymore and Billy still does. I get it. I just don't know why anyone here expects me to like it or approve of it. Perhaps I've overstated Jimmy's lack of passion for music, but I just don't see how the laid back stance he's taken translates to my interests as a fan, which is to have as much music I like produced for my benefit as possible.

Billy's silly motivation to somehow recapture his 90s stardom is pathetic in many ways, and it's understandable that Jimmy sees that and doesn't want to follow suit...but at the same time, that silly motivation keeps Billy writing and recording and putting out music regularly and consistently. What is really so bad about that from where we stand? What exact benefit have we as fans gotten from Jimmy's absence? Billy's songs have suffered, and we've been sitting around twiddling our thumbs for a year now waiting on Jimmy to get something done. And that's all because of Jimmy's attitude. Not Billy's. If Jimmy wanted something better for SP even half as much as Billy, then Teargarden as it stands right now would probably be a lot better, and we'd still probably get Jimmy's solo work on top of it.

If the situation were reversed, and Jimmy was the one who wanted to push SP (back) to bigger and better things by hook or by crook while Billy simultaneously wanted to dial things down and scale back the band's mission and output so that he could pursue other interests, I have no doubt in my mind that most of you would have a drastically different opinion on the matter. Billy would still be the bad guy, and Jimmy would still be the saint.

Catherine Wheel
03-04-2010, 07:16 PM
What's the point of being a rock star if you just isolate and alienate yourself from everyone that ever mattered to you?

paranoid
03-04-2010, 07:19 PM
tl;dr

Corganist
03-04-2010, 07:27 PM
also corganist, it's quite presumptuous for you to assume that what billy is saying is true. how the fuck do you know? you don't. you know as much as anyone else.

The stuff he said about Jimmy's destructiveness I don't assume is true, because Jimmy pretty specifically said it wasn't. Jury's still out I say. But there have been very few other times when anyone has disputed any of Billy's specific accusations, and most of them generally aren't of the type you let stand if you have the truth on your side. I think it stands to reason that of all the people Billy has burned bridges with, someone would defend themselves and say "No, here's how it really is working with Billy Corgan." if Billy was really spreading lies.

I mean, if someone could do a tell all on Billy without making themselves look bad, the music press would eat that shit up with a spoon. So why hasn't it happened? It's not like Billy has any pull to blackball someone for speaking ill of him.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 07:31 PM
What's the point of being a rock star if you just isolate and alienate yourself from everyone that ever mattered to you?

That's why it's silly and pathetic. But that desire has been ingrained in Billy as long as I've been following him. It shouldn't surprise anyone by now.

And especially not Jimmy Chamberlin.

jimmy drevpile
03-04-2010, 07:33 PM
Corgan makes himself look bad enough, without anyone else joining in.

SPLATTER
03-04-2010, 07:44 PM
so where the hell can i read this ?

New Art Rioter
03-04-2010, 08:04 PM
The stuff he said about Jimmy's destructiveness I don't assume is true, because Jimmy pretty specifically said it wasn't. Jury's still out I say. But there have been very few other times when anyone has disputed any of Billy's specific accusations, and most of them generally aren't of the type you let stand if you have the truth on your side. I think it stands to reason that of all the people Billy has burned bridges with, someone would defend themselves and say "No, here's how it really is working with Billy Corgan." if Billy was really spreading lies.

I mean, if someone could do a tell all on Billy without making themselves look bad, the music press would eat that shit up with a spoon. So why hasn't it happened? It's not like Billy has any pull to blackball someone for speaking ill of him.

D'Arcy was going to write a book wasn't she? I wonder what happened to that.

Caine Walker
03-04-2010, 08:04 PM
Rgi.pdf (http://www.mediafire.com/?ndvjmjgwkz0)

Esty
03-04-2010, 08:08 PM
Which is more likely? That Billy flipped a switch and decided out of the blue and for no reason that Jimmy was a destructive influence and needed to be turfed out? Or that maybe, just maybe, something specific happened on the last tour that made Billy come to that conclusion? Say what you will about Billy's ability to play with others, but he's never been known to be as arbitrary about such things as people here want to pretend he is.


Bill has a tendency to blame everyone and anyone for everything. His fans, his parents, his bandmates in SP, his bandmates in Zwan, and so forth.

I can't wait for the interview when he blames his retarded brother for something.

Also, in case I don't say it enough, you're a stupid fuck.

Trotskilicious
03-04-2010, 08:27 PM
This new information regarding Jimmy sucks…but no matter what happens from here with SP, good or bad, fans will be there expressing their discontent for a band they claim they don't like or care about anymore. What shows is they are still very passionate about this band if they feel so strongly about everything SP does.

It's all just starting to sound like pretend hate (like how an angry girlfriend acts to her boyfriend when she is pissed at him. She doesn't actually hate him but only says that she does.) People being super negative and overly dramatic about the things SP and Billy Corgan does, are the same people who cannot wait to see what the next song will sound like, probably clicking the refresh button on SP.com and losing several minutes of sleep at night over it.

I guess we will continue to have a seething disapproval with Billy Corgan and all his music but will always and until the end of time spend our moments listening to his music, expending our energy to him and his actions, and probably even secretly go to his concerts.

when is you gonna shut the fuck up

Trotskilicious
03-04-2010, 08:29 PM
As are about 90% of the posters on this board.

including you n me baby

slunken
03-04-2010, 08:31 PM
I'mma go read the HU comments now...

Trotskilicious
03-04-2010, 08:31 PM
but the mythology of rock no longer has much relevance in American culture.

elaborate?

srt4b
03-04-2010, 08:33 PM
are people actually responding to corganist?

install this firefox plugin: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7023

no more corganist, ever

very nice. thanks for that.

paranoid
03-04-2010, 08:36 PM
I'mma go read the HU comments now...

nothing new there just another moronic apologist trying to twist the story around so billy is not viewed as the bad guy. at least the dip bag that runs the place.

Trotskilicious
03-04-2010, 08:36 PM
themadcaplaughs says, "Well Billy it's been a good run, but it's time we bring things to an end now. I have no more interest in your future musical projects, although I appreciate all the good music you did make."

Showers says, "i love you Billy. thank you for clarifying all of this. now the useless "fans" will leave the boat. and people who can truely appreciate and love you and your music will be with you"

Bring_the_light says, "I agree with Billy. It's his fucking life, if he doesn't want to have jimmy in it then it's his call. yes we respect jimmy as a musician and sure billy does, but if they didn't get along anymore it makes sense to severe the ties."

thatguyblane says, "Interesting read but it's not going to stop me from listening to and enjoying his music. This Billy for better or for worse is the one who has created so much awesome music and this is all a part of what makes him tick."

perkinscowl says,"Ahhh. I never would read interviews and such and here's why. Now I'll continue to not read them, while using what spare time I have for the music listening."

<img src="http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?oid=AAAAAQAQfzJWbzTx9kK87JHZD3qFlAAAAAmG96 Zq20APRT9B1znkyFAp">

nigga, gay, etc.

slunken
03-04-2010, 08:39 PM
This might be an appropriate time to just admit that whenever I hear the "re-volution" part in US of Zeitgeist (which is rare) I always sing "sma-shing pumpkins" over top of Billy.

Trotskilicious
03-04-2010, 08:40 PM
what is zeitgeist?

slunken
03-04-2010, 08:42 PM
Yea I thought I'd mention the album because I knew some ppl wouldn't be familiar with the material. You should check it out. Apparently it's relentlessly heavy.

Reyngel
03-04-2010, 10:12 PM
I like that Billy admitted that the early Teargarden songs he's released are shit.


That made my day, haha.


And man oh man, he has literally alienated everyone who ever meant anything to him in his life. It's almost like he's systematically allowing himself to dive deeper into a self-destructive pattern. Jimmy was once his best friend. And then he killed it. He admits James was once his best friend. And he killed that, too.


Friendships. Family. Lovers. Fans. He's alienated them all. And he STILL maintains that the attitude that he's right, and that no one knows it yet. That he's misunderstood.


Damnit, Billy... is everyone in the world wrong but you?

tweedyburd
03-04-2010, 10:16 PM
Corganist, ask yourself what is more likely:

That everything Billy has said about his former band mates is completely true and that they are all the ones to blame, not him, the one constant variable in the equation, for what went wrong behind the scenes in each band. All this, just because no one has stood up to defend themselves over these accusations.

Or!

That James and Jimmy's silence or non-elaboration on these matters might, just maybe, be the result of a little something called class, and they as individuals would rather not roll around in the muck of publicly shitting on the people who were such a big part of their lives in order to settle some old score?

Just asking. Not the scenario you wish and hope is true, just the one that's most likely.

It's like James said, everyone in the band had a different perspective, and what the fuck difference does it make now to try and re-hash old feuds just to salvage your ego, some 10 years later? God, Billy looks pathetic in this interview.

Maybe these guys would rather just get on with their lives doing whatever makes them happy. Did you ever consider that by responding to Corgan's press attacks that it would, in a sense, legitimize his tacky approach to and perspective on the past? I bet their silence on these matters makes him even more pissed off, because they're just ignoring him, and you know someone with that much self-importance hates being ignored.

As much as Corgan talks about love, forgiveness, positive energies and "unhealthy" people, he sure seems to spend a lot of his time exerting negative energy toward people in his past. How is anything he's said about his former bandmates "healthy" or helpful to the here and now, the place he most wants to be?

My feeling is the people who he has raked over the coals in the press (especially James) each became increasingly disillusioned and unimpressed with his act, and this really hurt his feelings. And all these jabs in the interviews is just his passive-aggressive way of getting back at them. That the people who were with him for so long suddenly didn't care about his stupid bullshit anymore, probably called him on it, and he feels betrayed rather than responsible in any way.

And it's also very possible that being in a band for 20 years with this guy could basically make you not enjoy music so much anymore. Think about it - if you got a job doing something you loved but had to answer to or put up with a douchebag for the entirety of your tenure, perhaps your desire to continue doing whatever it is you liked doing wouldn't be so strong when you came out the other side.

Ugly
03-04-2010, 10:25 PM
Best line in the whole interview:

<I>"I fucking hated the Nineties."</I>
<B>-Jimmy Chamberlin</B>

Gold!

samuel redman
03-04-2010, 10:39 PM
Billy is a Christ like figure to me

samuel redman
03-04-2010, 10:45 PM
he can do no wrong in my eyes

and im serious

runnersdialzero
03-04-2010, 10:49 PM
Billy is a Christ like figure to me

Billy is a Christ like figure to Billy

"bald ambition"

Caine Walker
03-04-2010, 10:50 PM
i want to get you drunk, samuel redman.

Starla
03-04-2010, 10:52 PM
my new name is stargate atlantis crystal feather

please refer to me by this for now on, as i carry this new energy into the next decade.

samuel redman
03-04-2010, 10:54 PM
i want to get you drunk, samuel redman.

i like to talk about life

runnersdialzero
03-04-2010, 11:03 PM
"what he believes to be his spiritual ablilities. 'I was psychically reading them'... Corgan was a lonely kid"

is this a joke

SPLATTER
03-04-2010, 11:09 PM
just read it. it's a really great article. the writer did a great job.

i feel bad for billy. he's sicker than i ever gave him credit for.

he's also extremely unlikable.

it's really striking to me that someone i grew up looking up to and appreciating so much is now someone who could learn a whole lot from me, and im sure a lot more of his fans who've figured out a whole lot more about life ... but i think he's pretty lost and not coming back.

Squashings
03-04-2010, 11:10 PM
Boy, what a breath of fresh air from Billy. I'm glad to see he's finally cleared the air and come full circle... BTW, my new name from now on shall be Amethyst Cloud Child.

Corganist
03-04-2010, 11:11 PM
Corganist, ask yourself what is more likely:

That everything Billy has said about his former band mates is completely true and that they are all the ones to blame, not him, the one constant variable in the equation, for what went wrong behind the scenes in each band. All this, just because no one has stood up to defend themselves over these accusations.

Or!

That James and Jimmy's silence or non-elaboration on these matters might, just maybe, be the result of a little something called class, and they as individuals would rather not roll around in the muck of publicly shitting on the people who were such a big part of their lives in order to settle some old score?

Just asking. Not the scenario you wish and hope is true, just the one that's most likely.

I think they're equally likely. I personally put more stock in the former than the latter, but it's just a matter of perspective. I see no reason to call Billy a liar. He may be many bad things, but that has never been shown to be one of them. Similarly, I think it's speculative bordering on just plain wishful thinking to think that every person Billy has ever spoken ill of is just too "classy" to do anything but roll over and take him telling bold faced lies about them.

It's like James said, everyone in the band had a different perspective, and what the fuck difference does it make now to try and re-hash old feuds just to salvage your ego, some 10 years later? God, Billy looks pathetic in this interview.
James cares nothing for what Smashing Pumpkins were or are. His relativistic "oh, everybody saw it differently, who cares what really happened" BS doesn't mean anything. He can pay whatever lip service he wants to "choosing to remember the good times," but that's all it is. Fine James, you want to remember the good times? Do it then. Tell us about them. Come out of your goddamn hole and act like you were part of this band at one time. Defend it from what Billy has allegedly turned it into.

I will not fault Billy for caring about what this band was, even if he is killing it trying to bring it back. It's better than him tossing it aside and completely forgetting about it like the rest of the band has done.


Maybe these guys would rather just get on with their lives doing whatever makes them happy. Did you ever consider that by responding to Corgan's press attacks that it would, in a sense, legitimize his tacky approach to and perspective on the past? I bet their silence on these matters makes him even more pissed off, because they're just ignoring him, and you know someone with that much self-importance hates being ignored.

All I know is that I have generally believed Billy's version of things, and thus I have lost a lot of respect for James and now (to a lesser extent) Jimmy. I feel unfortunate about it, but their silence works against them as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I know that in the scheme of things my opinion of them doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but I don't think I'm wrong to demand more out of them as a fan of the band and of their music.

As much as Corgan talks about love, forgiveness, positive energies and "unhealthy" people, he sure seems to spend a lot of his time exerting negative energy toward people in his past. How is anything he's said about his former bandmates "healthy" or helpful to the here and now, the place he most wants to be?


It isn't really, but I think he recognizes it. He doesn't ever say he's not a work in progress.

My feeling is the people who he has raked over the coals in the press (especially James) each became increasingly disillusioned and unimpressed with his act, and this really hurt his feelings. And all these jabs in the interviews is just his passive-aggressive way of getting back at them. That the people who were with him for so long suddenly didn't care about his stupid bullshit anymore, probably called him on it, and he feels betrayed rather than responsible in any way.

Why wouldn't he feel betrayed? He breaks up SP for James's sake, all but destroying his career in the process, and for what? He couldn't salvage James's friendship or even his respect. Then he financially supports members of Zwan while they're in the band with him, and he's repaid by them forwarding his e-mails on his Blackberry, doing drugs, and being generally terrible to him. Now Jimmy helps him relaunch SP and then totally flakes on him a couple years later.

And it's also very possible that being in a band for 20 years with this guy could basically make you not enjoy music so much anymore. Think about it - if you got a job doing something you loved but had to answer to or put up with a douchebag for the entirety of your tenure, perhaps your desire to continue doing whatever it is you liked doing wouldn't be so strong when you came out the other side.

Maybe so, but I'm not going to pat Jimmy on the back for losing his desire just because it's understandable. I hate to say that I feel he owes Pumpkins fans the duty to stick with it, but I kinda do.

runnersdialzero
03-04-2010, 11:18 PM
just finished reading it, that was sad sad sad.

paranoid
03-04-2010, 11:21 PM
the irony in all of this is that billy was riding in a white van for the spirits tour and still no one really gave a shit.

tweedyburd
03-04-2010, 11:26 PM
I don't care what they say about you Corganist, you're a true believer, haha. I think you have taken the roll of devil's advocate to illogical, indefensible extremes, but hey, more power to ya.

Point is, James and Jimmy rarely spoke about anything regarding the band even when they were in the band. They don't care about being in the spotlight like Billy does, and answering these accusations would only be answering them through a sound-byte media culture that favors simple answers to complex situations. Which is all Billy is really made of anyway, underneath it all, if you think about it - a bunch of vague sound-bytes. As the interviewer said, when pressed on details, he backs off.

To me, the only people who feel this article reflects well on Billy and negatively on James and Jimmy are simply operating on a whole different plane of perspective and reality. It is so amazing that it is almost impressive.

paranoid
03-04-2010, 11:33 PM
I don't care what they say about you Corganist, you're a true believer, haha. I think you have taken the roll of devil's advocate to illogical, indefensible extremes, but hey, more power to ya.

Point is, James and Jimmy rarely spoke about anything regarding the band even when they were in the band. They don't care about being in the spotlight like Billy does, and answering these accusations would only be answering them through a sound-byte media culture that favors simple answers to complex situations. Which is all Billy is really made of anyway, underneath it all, if you think about it - a bunch of vague sound-bytes. As the interviewer said, when pressed on details, he backs off.

To me, the only people who feel this article reflects well on Billy and negatively on James and Jimmy are simply operating on a whole different plane of perspective and reality. It is so amazing that it is almost impressive.

I think Corganist, Davin (at HU) and JJB from hipsters are the only ones trying to find ways to defend this.. and it's predictable with them. Billy could rape and murder a 5 year old boy and they'd still make excuses for him.

I'm pretty sure they're all in denial.

Ugly
03-04-2010, 11:40 PM
Now Jimmy helps him relaunch SP and then totally flakes on him a couple years later.


The article says that Corgan bounced him because he believed Jimmy is fundamentally destructive and unhealthy. However, he doesn't say that Jimmy was actually intoxicated and/or drug addicted. He just had a "feeling" about him or whatever. How is it that Chamberlin flaking out on <I>him</I>?

paranoid
03-04-2010, 11:46 PM
oh and btw I'm going on the record to say that I don't believe he FIRED him. sounds like bullshit to me.

Pop Tart
03-04-2010, 11:46 PM
And man oh man, he has literally alienated everyone who ever meant anything to him in his life....
I always thought it was quite telling that within seconds of being Billy-less, Yelena was smiling and pregnant. :eek:

the writer did a great job.
He really did.

it's really striking to me that someone i grew up looking up to and appreciating so much is now someone who could learn a whole lot from me, and im sure a lot more of his fans who've figured out a whole lot more about life ... but i think he's pretty lost and not coming back.
So sad but true. As far as alienating himself, maybe that happens any time someone stands up to him, or gives him a home truth, so things never end up getting any better for him - he just continually replaces his friends every time they're straight with him.

I was never a huge fan of Courtney, and she's extremely dyslexic and difficult to understand in print, but she's come out with a few gems over the past months that have eventually manifested themselves, and now Billy's blown her off too. If nothing else, I think Courtney would be the type of person to give it to you straight....if you were open to that.

EyesOfAJackal
03-04-2010, 11:59 PM
http://www.katefuller.com/btemcover.jpg

paranoid
03-05-2010, 12:02 AM
@PopTart: yes Courtney let him have it publicly.. and most of it turned out to be spot on (the jessica simpson thing).. and now after 20 years he's cut off all ties with her. like jimmy. who's left? Kerry Brown.. a fucking talentless and pathetic hanger on. he's blowing smoke of 'ol bills ass all the time now.. but he'll get thrown in the fire too.

Ugly
03-05-2010, 12:08 AM
I think the weirdest thing is that he's living in Kerry Brown's pool house. Maybe he needs some kid of companionship. Oh, and I don't believe a word that he was faced with "have breakfast or kill yourself" every morning.

Slurpee
03-05-2010, 12:19 AM
Everybody reading this thread, come over and let's get high.

Corganist
03-05-2010, 12:20 AM
I don't care what they say about you Corganist, you're a true believer, haha. I think you have taken the roll of devil's advocate to illogical, indefensible extremes, but hey, more power to ya.

Point is, James and Jimmy rarely spoke about anything regarding the band even when they were in the band. They don't care about being in the spotlight like Billy does, and answering these accusations would only be answering them through a sound-byte media culture that favors simple answers to complex situations. Which is all Billy is really made of anyway, underneath it all, if you think about it - a bunch of vague sound-bytes. As the interviewer said, when pressed on details, he backs off.

To me, the only people who feel this article reflects well on Billy and negatively on James and Jimmy are simply operating on a whole different plane of perspective and reality. It is so amazing that it is almost impressive.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Billy came off well. Even I can't spin it that far. I just don't think he came off any worse than he always has, and that there was nothing in the interview that should have rocked your world as far as new insight into Billy Corgan the man goes if you've been paying attention to the guy...well, ever.

But as far as the Jimmy thing goes, I stand by having a lower opinion of him now. I should note, it's based on what he himself said and how it reflects what I see to be a blase attitude towards music and success that I find uncharacteristic of him. It's not because I believe Billy's half-baked rambling about his destructive lifestyle or unhealthiness.

Reyngel
03-05-2010, 12:21 AM
Corganist... I don't normally get into this shit with you, but dude, I can totally say you're in a bit of denial over all of this.

The article quotes, not paraphrases, Billy giving the reason for why he got rid of Jimmy. And it had nothing to do with Jimmy doing anything wrong... it was just a "feeling" Billy had.

It's classic depression, which Billy seems to be in. He's totally destroying everything around him... he's in a self-destructive pattern, and he's masking it by convincing himself that he's in a better place now, and that he's right, and every other person in his life, including fans, are wrong.


You seem to care deeply for the guy, even though you don't have a relationship with him. If you care for Billy Corgan, I'm surprised you're not caring about the fact that he's falling apart.