View Full Version : a stitch in time


Caine Walker
03-01-2010, 06:19 PM
is out Tuesday, March 2nd.

in the mean time, here is corgan going on about inane crap and a mention of a world tour at the very end.
Q&A with Billy Corgan, Smashing Pumpkins release third 'Teargarden by Kaleidyscope' single Tuesday (http://www.sdnn.com/sandiego/2010-03-01/blog/decibel-san-diego-music/smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-release-third-teagarden-by-kaleidyscope-single-tuesday)

slunken
03-01-2010, 06:23 PM
For some reason I thought you were T&T.

samuel redman
03-01-2010, 06:31 PM
im excited

Rickpat12
03-01-2010, 06:36 PM
Fav of mine from the Spirits tour.

Springbridge
03-01-2010, 07:44 PM
is out Tuesday, March 2nd.

in the mean time, here is corgan going on about inane crap and a mention of a world tour at the very end.
Q&A with Billy Corgan, Smashing Pumpkins release third 'Teargarden by Kaleidyscope' single Tuesday (http://www.sdnn.com/sandiego/2010-03-01/blog/decibel-san-diego-music/smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-release-third-teagarden-by-kaleidyscope-single-tuesday)

YYYYYYYEeeeeeeeeeeeahhh maybe finally they will come to Japan.

Order 66
03-01-2010, 07:55 PM
Is this like song for a song or is it for download only.

T&T
03-01-2010, 08:23 PM
For some reason I thought you were T&T.
it's the line breaks
i know

Springbridge
03-02-2010, 12:34 AM
I think Widow Wake My Mind has long over stayed its welcome. Let's hope Stitch in time comes out soon so it can drown out WidowWMM forever.

redbull
03-02-2010, 12:55 AM
watch here for it: The Smashing Pumpkins - Tracks - SoundCloud (http://soundcloud.com/smashingpumpkins)

Cade McNown
03-02-2010, 02:25 AM
dude get over the pigs already...

jczeroman
03-02-2010, 03:23 AM
is out Tuesday, March 2nd.


So sometime halfway through April then?

pumpkins
03-02-2010, 08:49 AM
It's tuesday, right? What day is today?

paranoid
03-02-2010, 09:48 AM
THE SONG IS UP.

pumpkins
03-02-2010, 09:50 AM
It's true: The Smashing Pumpkins - Tracks - SoundCloud (http://soundcloud.com/smashingpumpkins)

slunken
03-02-2010, 09:51 AM
Not bad at all.

Elvis The Fat Years
03-02-2010, 09:53 AM
this is the best the new drummer has sounded so far.

qlitchford
03-02-2010, 09:53 AM
This could pass for an old Pumpkins B-Side. I thought I might have heard emotion in his voice at one point.

I'll take it.

lol @ elvis

Mo
03-02-2010, 09:55 AM
Hm. A bit monotonous. A bit boring. Good enough filler track, I guess.

daevil1
03-02-2010, 09:56 AM
Is there a female backing vocalist? Maybe Linda Strawberry?

Elvis The Fat Years
03-02-2010, 09:57 AM
thats caine walker

dustrock
03-02-2010, 09:57 AM
well this was my favorite of the SITS songs, so my favorite so far. Thought he could have taken it somewhere cool, but overall it's pretty good.

The vocals come close to ruining the song, but don't, on one listen at least.

paranoid
03-02-2010, 10:03 AM
why'd he knock the middle section 'don't fear the reaper' melody and slap it in the intro?

dig the sitar. this would pass as a decent billy corgan solo song. i'm still not happy he's calling this SP.. so i'm speaking with a bitter tongue.

Caine Walker
03-02-2010, 10:11 AM
it's alright.

Rickpat12
03-02-2010, 10:13 AM
It was my fav Spirits song, but where is that kick ass violin+mandolin combo. Though the sitar was pretty cool. Seems to be good, I like.

ifuktyourmom
03-02-2010, 10:20 AM
Leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the trash that's come out for teargarden.

Cheradenine
03-02-2010, 10:35 AM
Leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the trash that's come out for teargarden.

Indeed, but that's not saying much... It's a nice ditty though.

Pizza Club
03-02-2010, 10:36 AM
Meh, the song is just okay. I probably like Widow better.

Cool As Ice Cream
03-02-2010, 10:40 AM
a bitch in time right lol

T&T
03-02-2010, 10:56 AM
i came
i listened
i'll download
and wait for the next one.

Aeroplane
03-02-2010, 11:02 AM
Meh.

Forgotten Child
03-02-2010, 11:03 AM
Ok, this is pretty good!

ASIT was one of those songs that I didn't like live. In the studio, the backgroud MADE the song, totally.

Fine production. Fresh vocals.

Just great!

Eulogy
03-02-2010, 11:10 AM
Meh is a significant upgrade. I won't be able to listen until about 5 today. boo.

DisarmandDatarm
03-02-2010, 11:12 AM
i came


Wow, I havent heard it yet but has to be good to make that happen

srt4b
03-02-2010, 11:21 AM
I'm not really feeling it. It has no dynamic. It's the same thing over and over. Maybe it will grow on me.

dustrock
03-02-2010, 11:23 AM
it cuts off abruptly at 3:33. I wonder if this is one of the tracks that will have the "instrumental" bit or whatever was mentioned for the EP.

jczeroman
03-02-2010, 11:24 AM
It has no dynamic.

Yea.

Forgotten Child
03-02-2010, 11:32 AM
it cuts off abruptly at 3:33. I wonder if this is one of the tracks that will have the "instrumental" bit or whatever was mentioned for the EP.

abruptly? 3:20-3:33 is a fade out and it ends almost in silence

DaveKShape
03-02-2010, 11:35 AM
it's not bad. i don't know if someone else is doing background vocals for the "it's somewhere that you gotta be" part, but that person sounds like they actually have emotion in their voice. i like that he's experimenting with new sounds though.

this is significantly better than widow, at least. i'd put it next to song for a son - 6.5/10

tstats
03-02-2010, 11:36 AM
I haven't really had time to thoroughly listen to this version of the song but off the bat it seems to be better then widow, still not great but leaves me wanting to hear the next song

Corganist
03-02-2010, 11:47 AM
I can say I actually like this without much equivocation, instead of the "Well, it's not that bad" reaction I had to Widow. This keeps everything that worked about the song when it was played live and uses the production to add layers underneath (unlike Widow, where the song got utterly drowned and murdered by the shit they added). The sitar and the psychedelic sounding keys really enhance the song, IMO.

Slurpee
03-02-2010, 11:48 AM
SITAR MOTHERFUCKER!

wounded
03-02-2010, 11:57 AM
better than widow. i liked the live version with the strings in the back better though

hnibos
03-02-2010, 12:00 PM
shit sucks hardcore wtf

rolmos
03-02-2010, 12:00 PM
Next...

T&T
03-02-2010, 12:13 PM
SP has always been about albums for me
this song by song BS is making it hard to enjoy.

28if
03-02-2010, 12:17 PM
SP has always been about albums for me
this song by song BS is making it hard to enjoy.

yeah. all the songs sucking isn't helping either.

jimmy drevpile
03-02-2010, 12:30 PM
^

dustrock
03-02-2010, 12:33 PM
listening on headphones this is much better and the vocals seem somewhat lower in the mix and a little closer to Billy 1.0 vocal stylings.

Sorry, didn't mean it cut off abruptly at 3:33 - yes, there is the lengthy silence and what I meant is "is it going to be extended a bit on the EP?"

redbull
03-02-2010, 12:49 PM
not awful
better than first two
5/10

kingflupps
03-02-2010, 12:58 PM
Definitely way better than Widow and I love the vocal melody but I would have really preferred a violin rather than these synths he's using at the moment. Bit of a missed opportunity imo. Still its free and its pretty good.

Kahlo
03-02-2010, 01:09 PM
Not too bad. I feel the sitar is pretty pointless though, and a bit too token psychedelic/ new age if you know what I mean.

cBgH
03-02-2010, 01:11 PM
i like, not much to say, but i like.

vanilla
03-02-2010, 01:15 PM
i like it after the first listen.

Kahlo
03-02-2010, 01:20 PM
2 average and one terrible song I think you mean.

dustrock
03-02-2010, 01:21 PM
can we all agree ASIT>SFAS>>>>>>>>>>>>WWMM?

Skradgee
03-02-2010, 01:23 PM
i like it better than WMMM...that's all i know

Radiofred
03-02-2010, 01:35 PM
Not bad, the 2nd best song after Song For A Son. I do feel that what has been released is so much better than anything that was on Shitegeist, Definitely more emotion to the songs and i am glad he has ditched the over layering of his voice. Listening to A Stitch In Time again right now and i do think it's an enjoyable tune.

Astur
03-02-2010, 01:44 PM
Well... bah... meh... 's ok. I just don't like this fake Jethro Tull on LSD while being anal raped by the Eagles vibe.

And surely that drumming is much better now.

D.
03-02-2010, 01:45 PM
can we all agree SFAS>ASIT>>>>>>>>>>>>WWMM?

u r correct

New Art Rioter
03-02-2010, 01:53 PM
Quite pleasant. The stream kills the song, download sounds 10x better. A million times better than WWMM.

I agree about the lack of dynamics, can't help it would of been better to start off a bit quieter and build up the backing instruments throughout the course of the song

Cool As Ice Cream
03-02-2010, 03:23 PM
this song has been the hardest to listen to all the way through so far. don't think i'll listen to any of these again any time soon.

lol jesus fucking christ what a joke hahaha a fucking rock band i tell you! rock on! keep on truckin'! GUITAR HERRO! oh boy. :rofl: you know where you can put that sitar?

Slurpee
03-02-2010, 03:25 PM
you know where you can put that sitar?
Back in its case?

Nothing/everything
03-02-2010, 03:26 PM
yawn.
back to listening to slowdive for me.

Cool As Ice Cream
03-02-2010, 03:29 PM
Back in its case?

fine, if you wanna call it that.

redbull
03-02-2010, 03:30 PM
this kind of reminds me of djali zwan stuff

Mo
03-02-2010, 03:56 PM
this kind of reminds me of djali zwan stuff

Just boring.

redbreegull
03-02-2010, 04:01 PM
It isn't exactly what I would call great, but it is much better than Widow, and I think it is put together better than bong for a schlong.

anonadieu
03-02-2010, 04:02 PM
I really quite like it.

omoi
03-02-2010, 04:06 PM
sounds like Achy Breaky Heart.

severin
03-02-2010, 04:06 PM
why do i even bother.....

Mablak
03-02-2010, 04:06 PM
I think the main thing that makes this song boring is the lyrics, it's just impossible not to zone out after a while. It's not terrible though, the tune is good enough. Still nothing else really going for it.

Caine Walker
03-02-2010, 04:09 PM
yeah, i kinda zoned out too.

Funky_Gibbon
03-02-2010, 04:22 PM
I wasn't sure about it at first, I missed the violin, but by the end of it I was really enjoying the song. Not bad at all, vocals set at a much more comfortable level and nice to hear someone else singing backup.

6.5/10. Half a point deducted because the synth or whatever it is is quite piercing.

Funky_Gibbon
03-02-2010, 04:24 PM
this kind of reminds me of djali zwan stuff

I can live happily with that.

Rickpat12
03-02-2010, 04:24 PM
In other news...KB's most recent tweet suggests that Tom Tom is going to be in the next batch of four.

Corganist
03-02-2010, 04:32 PM
In other news...KB's most recent tweet suggests that Tom Tom is going to be in the next batch of four.

Awesome. That one may be my favorite of all the Spirits/Backwards Clock stuff.

deadaswarhol
03-02-2010, 04:35 PM
i'm listening to music most of the time on the computer, so every time one of these leaks, i pause the music i'm listening to to listen to it, then when i go back, whatever i was listening to is WAY better than the SP song.

Rickpat12
03-02-2010, 04:40 PM
Awesome. That one may be my favorite of all the Spirits/Backwards Clock stuff.

agreed. Add The Fellowship and Emerald Green and you have all my favorites.

CrabbMan
03-02-2010, 04:48 PM
SP has always been about albums for me
this song by song BS is making it hard to enjoy.

Have hope. Just because it's being released song by song, doesn't mean it won't make up an album eventually. I rather like the way the sound of Kaleidyscope is shaping up. Or if not the sound itself (it's a little more synthy-physcedelic than I'd prefer--I'm more of a wall-of-fuzz rock kinda guy, or even arcane night music) I like that it has a consistent kind of sound. Though I wonder if each EP will be more cohesive themselves. I guess we'll see when track 5 comes out.

AlphaCentauri
03-02-2010, 04:49 PM
I bet the version recorded on his cell phone is the definitive recording.

He should take a peak back at some blonde on blonde and realize how awesome recording an entire album in 2 takes really is.

redbull
03-02-2010, 04:54 PM
i'm listening to music most of the time on the computer, so every time one of these leaks, i pause the music i'm listening to to listen to it, then when i go back, whatever i was listening to is WAY better than the SP song.

seriously, i paused drown to listen to this thing

tweedyburd
03-02-2010, 05:00 PM
Whether or not it's a slight improvement over the first two songs is almost beside the point. The most glaring detail of this track is just how much it solidifies the unfortunate reality that all these songs have no dynamic and go absolutely no where.

Hopefully he'll record Freak soon. That's the only song that had any promise to me.

seign
03-02-2010, 05:08 PM
This is actually really good. I can't think of any other Pumpkins song that it reminds me of off hand.

One small comment though: I see that the whole Smashing Pumpkins vs. THE Smashing Pumpkins debate hasn't been settled yet. The first two were labled Smashing Pumpkins, and this one gets the added "The". To be fair though, it's also dated 2001.

Reyngel
03-02-2010, 05:09 PM
Are you all fucking kidding me?


Look, the song's not as bad as Widow Wake My Mind, but how is that a compliment?


It's like telling an ugly girl she's not as ugly as a pile of horse shit, and expecting her to take it as a compliment.


Give me a fucking break.


The song is boring. It's not terrible, but it is in fact boring. Like others have said, I totally zone out halfway through due to the repetition. Where are the dynamics that helped shaped the name of the Pumpkins? I really miss those.


The sitar is used so uselessly. If there was more of it, or it was more prominent in the mix, the song would be much more interesting. The way it is, it's just a hard-to-hear novelty.


And whoever it was that said his vocals are closer to Billy 1.0... lol. I congratulate him for officially proving that he's done with the dropping-the-consonants shit, because it was ridiculous. But his contrived vibrato in this song, and in others, really waters down the power of his voice. He just doesn't understand the basic mechanics of voice vibrato, and so it comes off as ugly. If he were to drop that, all of his shit since Machina would sounds unbelievably better.


I give the song a 3/10. Keep in mind, though, that to me, Song for a Son is 4/10, and Widow Wake My Mind is -1/10. This song is a 3/10, simply because there so much he's done in his career that has turned me on more than what I just downloaded.

Enzo Gorlami
03-02-2010, 05:10 PM
I wonder if all 44 songs will contain the title within the first line sung. So far we're 3/3.

seign
03-02-2010, 05:10 PM
The keyboards kind of remind me of one of those generic songs heard in Science class videotapes.

Reyngel
03-02-2010, 05:18 PM
I also want to add that why the FUCK does all of his shit have to be named something straight from the lyrics of the song?

Remember when the majority of his shit had a creative title, or at least something that wasn't word-for-word a piece of the chorus or verse? Geek USA, Thru the Eyes of Ruby, XYU, Crestfallen, Ava Adore, Daphne Descends, Pug, Rocket, Cherub Rock, Soma, Silverfuck, Muzzle, Jellybelly... interesting titles. Even songs like To Sheila and Porcelina of the Vast Oceans are better, simply because they slightly tweak what's already in the lyrics.

You know, if he had written Disarm yesterday and released it today, I bet he'd have named it "Disarm You With a Smile."

Bleah.

deadaswarhol
03-02-2010, 05:38 PM
I also want to add that why the FUCK does all of his shit have to be named something straight from the lyrics of the song?

Remember when the majority of his shit had a creative title, or at least something that wasn't word-for-word a piece of the chorus or verse? Geek USA, Thru the Eyes of Ruby, XYU, Crestfallen, Ava Adore, Daphne Descends, Pug, Rocket, Cherub Rock, Soma, Silverfuck, Muzzle, Jellybelly... interesting titles. Even songs like To Sheila and Porcelina of the Vast Oceans are better, simply because they slightly tweak what's already in the lyrics.

You know, if he had written Disarm yesterday and released it today, I bet he'd have named it "Disarm You With a Smile."

Bleah.

more like "the killer in me(is the killer in you)"

paranoid
03-02-2010, 05:51 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but even with this song I can feel the absence of Jimmy C's presence. A nice, simple driving beat to go under this, like the one he played in Owata, would really help push the feel and dynamics a lot of the people here feel are missing.

A hi hat kick and come right in with the beat as billy starts singing, and keep it simple through out.. this song would sound much better.. imo.

This is miles ahead of the other two tunes, though. Doesn't make me want to stab my ears with an ice pick.

EyesOfAJackal
03-02-2010, 05:57 PM
all these songs have no dynamic and go absolutely no where.


What exactly do you mean by this? Does a song like Medellia "go somewhere"? Does Stumbleine? Soothe? I guess I'm not quite sure what you're saying, to me SFAS "goes somewhere" more than any of the aforementioned to (which is not to say it is better at all, but that it is more dynamic, has more sonic changes and variety).

To me a song can be great without dynamism (like the above), just kind of floating in one vibe, emotion, sound, whatever. Obviously if all of your music was that way it would suck, but as part of an album where there are songs that shift and move, I think the quality of a kind of static sound or vibe for a song or two can be fine.

All I'm saying is I don't understand lack of that quality alone as a deficit, I'm not trying to argue the specific merits of the songs.

Aside from that, I do enjoy ASIT, I think it has a kind of a folksy almost medieval movement to it. I completely ignored the lyrics though, maybe I was zoning too...

Dogfighter28
03-02-2010, 05:58 PM
Awful

cardiac
03-02-2010, 06:06 PM
It's boring, but not insultingly bad. Just really, really mediocre. I agree with Reyngel about the vibrato thing. He's gotta be surrounded by yes-men if no one has called him out on how awful it sounds.

I'm a bit bothered by the lack of proper choruses in these songs as well.

Better than Widow, worse than SFAS. Nothing special from the Teargarden project so far.

Order 66
03-02-2010, 06:11 PM
I listened to it with good headphones and it was pretty good. but I was always into 70s folksy stuff. I can see why ppl wouldn't like it as an SP song

Gossamer
03-02-2010, 06:52 PM
This song is really boring, I hate waiting for over a month and then being bored when I actually listen to the song.

I just made myself listen to the 3 released songs in a row to see how I'd rate them and how they sound one after another and I think I'd go with:

Song For A Son = 7.5/10 (awesome guitar solos, epic feel throughout, and billy's faggy zeitgeist vocals don't really make an appearance til the last vocal line)
Widow Wake My Mind = 2.5/10 (would've given this a 1/10 but I actually really like the end of the song for some weird reason)
A Stitch In Time = 2.5/10 (bores me to tears but at least it doesn't make me cringe like most of WWMM, still no highs at all, nothing that makes me actually want to listen to this in a standalone fashion, which is kind of the problem with this whole releasing one song at a time business in the first place)

If he's going to release a really boring track like this, it blows when people have to wait a month to hear another attempt. ASIT could be a decent filler track on a decent album but as a standalone single it's lame.

Billy's 1/3 so far imo.

vbshlofbvgos
03-02-2010, 06:52 PM
I like it. Nowhere to go but up after WWMM however.

brendo_91
03-02-2010, 06:54 PM
I'm a bit bothered by the lack of proper choruses in these songs as well.

And I am one of many/many more to come/many more to come/You daughters of the revolution/carry them back home/carry them back home

Shines/it shines/A love that shines/To be mine/Yes all mine/A love that's mine/Oh


There's somewhere I just gotta be/Ooh, yeah/There's somewhere I just gotta be


No choruses? Are you on drugs?

Gossamer
03-02-2010, 06:56 PM
I think what he meant by a lack of proper choruses is that the choruses for the most part really suck dick.

Dogfighter28
03-02-2010, 06:56 PM
GOSSAMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \m/

Corganist
03-02-2010, 07:02 PM
What exactly do you mean by this? Does a song like Medellia "go somewhere"? Does Stumbleine? Soothe? I guess I'm not quite sure what you're saying, to me SFAS "goes somewhere" more than any of the aforementioned to (which is not to say it is better at all, but that it is more dynamic, has more sonic changes and variety).

To me a song can be great without dynamism (like the above), just kind of floating in one vibe, emotion, sound, whatever. Obviously if all of your music was that way it would suck, but as part of an album where there are songs that shift and move, I think the quality of a kind of static sound or vibe for a song or two can be fine.


I agree with this. Dynamism never really has been as big a part of what makes an SP song an SP song as people want to always say it is. SP did dynamic songs very well, but not every song they did (hell, maybe not even most of them) was marked by dynamic shifts all over the place. But you'd never know that to hear some people talk.

And really, I'm not sure why people were expecting dynamics from this song anyway. What was it about the live version that gave anyone that expectation?

Gossamer
03-02-2010, 07:07 PM
GOSSAMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \m/

sup barnsey, what are your thoughts on the new song?

Dogfighter28
03-02-2010, 07:08 PM
Sucks as expected

samuel redman
03-02-2010, 07:11 PM
what does \m/ mean

tweedyburd
03-02-2010, 07:13 PM
Does a song like Medellia "go somewhere"? Does Stumbleine? Soothe?

Two of those were B-sides, whereas these tunes (in particular ASIT) are supposed to set the tone and be representative of the entire album, which is not exactly a good sign.

Anyway, I'd argue that yes a song like Medellia definitely "goes somewhere," thematically and lyrically. The consistent theme for me of the Teargarden songs is that they state one mediocre idea and repeat it ad nauseum until Billy drags it across the 3-4 minute mark. Probably the main reason the songs you mentioned have more of a dynamic to me is that they seem effortless, whereas these new songs seem totally contrived and grating. In the past, even Billy's simple songs seemed like they stemmed from a creative center that consistently steered down multiple lyrical or thematic paths. These Teargarden songs are dreadfully repetitive in a way that suggests Billy's days of intelligent songwriting are behind him. You may think SFAS is dynamic, but really think about it: what is he saying lyrically, musically, thematically that couldn't be summed up in half the time? You can't say that about Hummer. Or Porcelina. Or For Martha. And before you go saying that was 10 years ago and artists evolve, I know they do. Artists also decline in the amount of talent on hand, as well.

And SFAS is supposed to be epic? Epically dull and repetitive if you ask me.

When a song is as overbearing and specific as the last two, especially, have been but don't offer anything more than one simple idea incessantly restated over and over again, it gets old quick. It comes off like lazy songwriting, especially when the sentiments expressed are so generic and lazy. Perhaps the better question to ask is, does Medellia or Stumbleine come across as lazy songwriting? I don't think many fans would answer "yes" to that.


Obviously if all of your music was that way it would suck, but as part of an album where there are songs that shift and move, I think the quality of a kind of static sound or vibe for a song or two can be fine.

But wasn't the point of this album to get away from that sort of thinking? The sort of decisions that led to The Crying Tree of Mercury being included on Machina, but a song like Slow Dawn being left off? Billy stated as much in that latest interview, about how this process is supposed to afford each song the time and quality it deserves, and not worry so much about the greater context of the album.

pinballzero
03-02-2010, 07:13 PM
Are you all fucking kidding me?


Look, the song's not as bad as Widow Wake My Mind, but how is that a compliment?


It's like telling an ugly girl she's not as ugly as a pile of horse shit, and expecting her to take it as a compliment.


Give me a fucking break.


The song is boring. It's not terrible, but it is in fact boring. Like others have said, I totally zone out halfway through due to the repetition. Where are the dynamics that helped shaped the name of the Pumpkins? I really miss those.


The sitar is used so uselessly. If there was more of it, or it was more prominent in the mix, the song would be much more interesting. The way it is, it's just a hard-to-hear novelty.


And whoever it was that said his vocals are closer to Billy 1.0... lol. I congratulate him for officially proving that he's done with the dropping-the-consonants shit, because it was ridiculous. But his contrived vibrato in this song, and in others, really waters down the power of his voice. He just doesn't understand the basic mechanics of voice vibrato, and so it comes off as ugly. If he were to drop that, all of his shit since Machina would sounds unbelievably better.


I give the song a 3/10. Keep in mind, though, that to me, Song for a Son is 4/10, and Widow Wake My Mind is -1/10. This song is a 3/10, simply because there so much he's done in his career that has turned me on more than what I just downloaded.

Widow 1/10 , SFS 2/10, This 3.5/10. I think JC automatically adds +4 to each of these if present

TFE sounds alot better these days

qlitchford
03-02-2010, 07:16 PM
Widow 1/10 , SFS 2/10, This 3.5/10. I think JC automatically adds +4 to each of these if present

TFE sounds alot better these days

The scariest thing about BC in general since, lets say 1998, is that whatever he puts out NEXT always makes the last release sound that much better. Just think, in 2-3 years we might be remembering this album fondly.

Terrifying.

pinballzero
03-02-2010, 07:17 PM
I also want to add that why the FUCK does all of his shit have to be named something straight from the lyrics of the song?

Remember when the majority of his shit had a creative title, or at least something that wasn't word-for-word a piece of the chorus or verse? Geek USA, Thru the Eyes of Ruby, XYU, Crestfallen, Ava Adore, Daphne Descends, Pug, Rocket, Cherub Rock, Soma, Silverfuck, Muzzle, Jellybelly... interesting titles. Even songs like To Sheila and Porcelina of the Vast Oceans are better, simply because they slightly tweak what's already in the lyrics.

You know, if he had written Disarm yesterday and released it today, I bet he'd have named it "Disarm You With a Smile."

Bleah.
Clearly this is one of the greater half assed efforts ever by a respectable rock band

paranoid
03-02-2010, 07:25 PM
well said tweedyburd.

SFAS is the same chord progression over and over again for 6 minutes. he attempts to use dynamics by switching up the instrumentation, but the song writing itself does nothing to support those dynamics. Compare that to soma, where he literally wrote some sort of variation, or completely different part all together to complement the changes and dynamics in instrumentation. He's lost that touch.

tweedyburd
03-02-2010, 07:31 PM
Dynamism never really has been as big a part of what makes an SP an SP song as people want to always say it is

Are you kidding me? Let's go down the list of generally agreed upon fan favorites, songs that would generally be considered examples of "what makes an SP song an SP song":

I Am One, Siva, Rhinocerous, Cherub Rock, Hummer, Today, Rocket, Disarm, Soma, Geek USA, Mayonaise, Silverfuck, Tonight, Bullet, Muzzle, Porcelina, WBFTT, 33, 1979, Ruby, Ava Adore, Perfect, For Martha, SIYL, I of the Mourning, This Time, Slow Dawn, etc etc etc etc etc.

Now, you might argue that calling something "dynamic" may be subjective, but I wish you luck on finding anyone who wouldn't agree the songs on that list have dynamic song structures, or at least 95% of them do.

paranoid
03-02-2010, 07:34 PM
and good fucking lord there's PLENTY more you could put on that list.

tweedyburd
03-02-2010, 07:36 PM
Yeah, it's a bit absurd to state that all of the songs fans have loved the most over the years haven't relied on dynamic song structures as one of their most identifiable traits.

Banana
03-02-2010, 07:54 PM
People bitching about the song just for the sake of bitching and because it's part of their little mental persona to continually follow this band yet bad mouth it.

The song is good. Best of the 3 released so far. Song for a Son was alright, nothing special. WWMM was not so good, a bit toe tapping but not a really quality song. But this song, this song is a very solid and good song. Any hate directed towards it is undeserved. It's the kind of good song you would expect to be throughout a 44 song album.

Dogfighter28
03-02-2010, 07:57 PM
Bottoming out ^

Ugly
03-02-2010, 07:58 PM
Song for a Son still wins, this is way better than Widow, it's just kind of monotonous. Sounds like every other SP2/3 jingle-jangle quick strumming acoustic tune Billy has written. Neat riff, but it isn't very inspiring. But kinda catchy at least.

5.5 out 10

brendo_91
03-02-2010, 07:58 PM
Wait. "Dynamic song structures" or "Dynamics"?

Dynamics means soft/loud. Nothing else.

hnibos
03-02-2010, 07:59 PM
But this song, this song is a very solid and good song. Any hate directed towards it is undeserved. It's the kind of good song you would expect to be throughout a 44 song album.

:erm:

Corganist
03-02-2010, 08:04 PM
You guys are just proving my point. I never said that SP songs weren't dynamic (by whatever definition) or that most people didn't prefer the more dynamic songs to less dynamic songs. I just think that leveling a criticism about a song having no dynamic really doesn't say anything about how good or bad or how "SP" it is, because while SP has a lot of great songs one could arguably call "dynamic," they also have more than a few that are anything but.

I just don't see why there's always such a desire to force SP's work into such a small box. It just seems like every time something new comes out there's some completely arbitrary new requirement invented to exclude it from being considered on its merits, whatever they may or may not be.

applepwnz
03-02-2010, 08:15 PM
eh, it was not bad. Not good, but not bad either. Mostly just repetitive and boring, I could picture them playing this song in the morning at mcdonalds because it wouldn't upset the oldsters.

Catherine Wheel
03-02-2010, 08:23 PM
best thing he's done since The Future Embrace. A solid B.

SpFission
03-02-2010, 10:46 PM
SFAS - 5/10
WWMM - 5.5/10
ASIT - 7.5 / 10

tweedyburd
03-02-2010, 10:54 PM
not every song they did (hell, maybe not even most of them) was marked by dynamic shifts all over the place.

while SP has a lot of great songs one could arguably call "dynamic," they also have more than a few that are anything but.

It's hard to pinpoint your argument when you level such intellectual inconsistencies like these.

I just don't see why there's always such a desire to force SP's work into such a small box. It just seems like every time something new comes out there's some completely arbitrary new requirement invented to exclude it from being considered on its merits, whatever they may or may not be.

No one has to "force the work into a box," seeing as how Billy is doing a pretty good job of it himself with such limited song structures and ideas. A lot of us are simply reacting to that "boxed" sound.

paranoid
03-02-2010, 11:15 PM
+ he's limiting it to a box by slapping the sp name on it.

ping-ping
03-02-2010, 11:20 PM
best thing he's done since The Future Embrace. A solid B.

Don't know if it's the best thing, but I like it a lot more than his solo offerings. Teargarden is starting to come together for me.

paranoid
03-02-2010, 11:58 PM
3 songs in and it's STARTING to come together? got a loooong way to go bud

slunken
03-03-2010, 12:00 AM
Whoever said "chinese water tortue" is spot-on.

Cade McNown
03-03-2010, 12:14 AM
Zeitgeist was a decent album if you don't put it next to their previous works. This album so far is repetitive and bland with very simple song structures.

Remember the interview on Mashed Potatoes where they talk about how each of their songs could have been made into several simple songs? Well, now we are getting those songs, and it sucks.

EyesOfAJackal
03-03-2010, 12:37 AM
3 songs in and it's STARTING to come together? got a loooong way to go bud

Are you reacting to his early judgment on the project or his positive opinion? Because a lot of folks have written this off as going nowhere based off of three songs too...

paranoid
03-03-2010, 12:51 AM
i just think it's weird to say the album is shaping up 3 songs in, whether or not you think it is going to be bad or good.

Rommy
03-03-2010, 12:53 AM
If you guys are worried about repetitive songs, Astral Planes pretty much repeats 4 lines through the entire song. It has the potential to be realllly shit.

rudi
03-03-2010, 12:59 AM
What the fuck happened to the brief SP that existed during ARB, Sound of Silence, that shit at the Best Buy show or Guitar Center or whatever the fuck it was.

I was briefly excited during that episode of time.

paranoid
03-03-2010, 01:00 AM
What the fuck happened to the brief SP that existed during ARB, Sound of Silence, that shit at the Best Buy show or Guitar Center or whatever the fuck it was.

I was briefly excited during that episode of time.

yes, it was very exciting.

jimmy quit. that's what happened. it threw everything off track and BC had to spend some time starting over again. they were getting to a point of promise again and bam, dead.

TuralyonW3
03-03-2010, 01:43 AM
pretty suck. not embarrassing like last time but it's still boring and the vocal performance sucks in places.

TuralyonW3
03-03-2010, 01:43 AM
kinda like a zwan b-side with deteriorated vocals

killtrocity
03-03-2010, 02:12 AM
The scariest thing about BC in general since, lets say 1998, is that whatever he puts out NEXT always makes the last release sound that much better. Just think, in 2-3 years we might be remembering this album fondly.

Terrifying.

I think what he meant by a lack of proper choruses is that the choruses for the most part really suck dick.

What the fuck happened to the brief SP that existed during ARB, Sound of Silence, that shit at the Best Buy show or Guitar Center or whatever the fuck it was.

I was briefly excited during that episode of time.

Whoever said "chinese water tortue" is spot-on.
these

megalomano
03-03-2010, 02:18 AM
Oh god, what a waste of time, i hate all the songs in the spirits in the sky period, its like a worst crappy version of the captain american gothic ep, just boring songs, pop acoustic shit, 70s style... please somebody break all the keyboards he´s using, sound horrible.

its sad but My Chemical Romance its doing better conceptual albums and music that Corgan, c´mon....

the next song shoud be ass kiking piece of rock like gossamer, as rome burns, zero, bullet, xyu, but i think he cant doing it no more.

redbull
03-03-2010, 03:47 AM
billy's music isn't even good high anymore

fuzzyroes
03-03-2010, 04:15 AM
I dunno, in my opinion the sound quality of the songs has been improving with each release... this one clearly being the best (production wise) So its making me optimistic for the future... I for one will be happy when he's done with the SITS stuff.... Never was a big fan of that hippie shit... It always struck me as kind of boring.

I guess the best way i can describe the newest song is "its good for what it is, but i dont like what it is"

But i'm really expecting to see growth by the 2nd E.P. which makes me excited... But then again who knows... Well one things for sure i bet we'll still be on board watching to see what happens whether its stuff we like or not.

Cool As Ice Cream
03-03-2010, 04:44 AM
Well one things for sure i bet we'll still be on board watching to see what happens whether its stuff we like or not.

i wouldn't be too sure about that.

Shallowed
03-03-2010, 05:06 AM
The only reason I even marginally like this is because anything would be good after Widow Rape My Eyes.

It's getting more and more heartbreaking to see what SP has turned into.

russian iha
03-03-2010, 07:06 AM
Just because Stumbleine is quiet and acoustic doesn't make it less dynamic. "Jukebox fucked up" slowing down and then verse rushing on again is on the same level as Geek USA's rollercoaster.

While totally working as stand-alone pieces Medellia and Stumbleine also put you into trance and safe numbness, but they sometimes step out (like that small ascending bridge in Medellia that stops you mid-breath) to make subtle pauses that help everything else rush on you as if it's not an acoustic song, but a balls-out rocker.

Also slowburners like To Sheila grow step-by-step with nuances like throwing in a thoughtful solo guitar or unexpected airy back-up vocals. If it's on spot - even a single note thrown in takes the song on entire new level.

Shallowed
03-03-2010, 07:37 AM
To Sheila does not need defending. If you think you can critique it and compare it to other songs, you can suck Satan's cock.

Kahlo
03-03-2010, 08:18 AM
I heard Zeitgeist just beofre the first Paris gig...I think I realised that things were fucked from the start.

wounded
03-03-2010, 09:04 AM
after a day i actually like this song quite a bit. it is interesting to listen to all 3 songs back to back. widow still sucks, but is tolerable between sfas and stitch.

Cheradenine
03-03-2010, 09:10 AM
While Stumbleine might be as repetitive as A Stitch in Time, the context provides a great deal of dynamics. I think it's a great song in itself, but the way it follows Thru the Eyes of Ruby and leads up to XYU is very effective and beautiful.

As for A Stitch in Time, you could forgive it for being yet another cliché-ridden, monotonous, loveless SP2 monstrosity if only it had the context of an album. For now, its only redeeming quality is that it's not godawful.

cardiac
03-03-2010, 09:10 AM
And I am one of many/many more to come/many more to come/You daughters of the revolution/carry them back home/carry them back home

Shines/it shines/A love that shines/To be mine/Yes all mine/A love that's mine/Oh


There's somewhere I just gotta be/Ooh, yeah/There's somewhere I just gotta be


No choruses? Are you on drugs?

I barely find those to be choruses. He repeats a line a couple of times without a memorable melody to carry it. They come across more tails of verses than proper choruses to me.

The Jesus
03-03-2010, 09:13 AM
It's ok.

Sonic Johnny
03-03-2010, 10:00 AM
Hey isn't this supposed to be the same band that wrote Gossame-

Oh no wait.

That band had Jimmy in it.

Nevermind

SPLATTER
03-03-2010, 10:11 AM
this song is horrible. i couldn't even listen to the last 1:30, b/c why bother.

applepwnz
03-03-2010, 11:14 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3271/2851838716_aba93a55ca.jpg

Stitch it time was an ok song.

Catherine Wheel
03-03-2010, 11:48 AM
I'm really liking it. It kind of sounds like it could be a Siamese Dream or Gish outtake. The sitar perfectly compliments his voice and the guitar. I also love how stripped down it sounds. It's definitely the best singing I've heard by him in years.

cardiac
03-03-2010, 11:52 AM
the next song shoud be ass kiking piece of rock like gossamer, as rome burns, zero, bullet, xyu, but i think he cant doing it no more.

Its not Bill I'm worried about when it comes to the harder SP sound in the vein of As Rome Burns. There's no fucking way Mikey can pull it off based on his work so far. When you hear the distorted guitars without that onslaught of a drum track, it won't work.

georgesbush
03-03-2010, 12:12 PM
Great song, I think its going to be a good year.

daevil1
03-03-2010, 12:39 PM
That is Strawberry on backing vocals btw

dustrock
03-03-2010, 12:45 PM
but you can barely tell it's her.

this is my favorite of the TBK songs. I've listened to it 10 x and haven't gotten bored of it yet.

Order 66
03-03-2010, 12:59 PM
Is it anything like song for a song or do you pay for it

Astur
03-03-2010, 02:35 PM
I'm really liking it. It kind of sounds like it could be a Siamese Dream or Gish outtake. The sitar perfectly compliments his voice and the guitar. I also love how stripped down it sounds. It's definitely the best singing I've heard by him in years.

Yes, an outtake kept out Gish and Siamese Dream because Butch Vig realized it was a fucking shit.

Corganist
03-03-2010, 02:37 PM
It's hard to pinpoint your argument when you level such intellectual inconsistencies like these.

How are they inconsistent? They say pretty much the exact same thing in different ways. Again, I'm not saying old school SP didn't have a lot of songs with dynamic shifts and that said songs were very popular. I'm just not at all convinced that dynamics were ever the make or break element to an SP song that people make out. SP have had great songs using the quiet/loud/quiet sort of thing, but they've also had not-so-great ones. They've also had great songs that stayed in one dynamic mode...but they've also had some not-so-great ones.

No one has to "force the work into a box," seeing as how Billy is doing a pretty good job of it himself with such limited song structures and ideas. A lot of us are simply reacting to that "boxed" sound.

If you don't like the sound, that's one thing. But why try to objectify that opinion with half-baked talk of dynamics that really doesn't say anything one way or the other? A Stitch in Time is definitely no less dynamic than some of the songs people have mentioned in this thread (To Sheila, Medellia, etc.) no matter how they try to explain it away. Does it mean it's as good as those songs? Probably not. But dynamics have nothing to do with it.

+ he's limiting it to a box by slapping the sp name on it.

It used to be that slapping the SP name on a song didn't say anything about what one would expect it to sound like. I'm not sure why that has changed.

Slurpee
03-03-2010, 02:47 PM
I've listened to it 10 x and haven't gotten bored of it yet.

How sad our standards are now. Can you imagine saying that about a MCIS song?

dustrock
03-03-2010, 03:06 PM
yeah, but I was 17 when MCIS came out, so I can't say I would react the same if I heard MCIS for the first time at age 33. Maybe I'd hear Fuck You or XYU and think it was retarded.

I'd still love Ruby though.

Mayfuck
03-03-2010, 03:24 PM
I kinda agree wtih Corganist, kinda agree with the others.

I think the problem here is that music is a very intuitive experience: either you like a song or you don't. You can't ever completely explain why a song doesn't strike your fancy. But when we do end up trying to rationalize why something is great or why something is terrible we do so by putting them in boxes, or using reference points that in reality aren't so concrete. We can define "dynamics" all day but its not gonna make these songs better for anyone.

Mayfuck
03-03-2010, 03:27 PM
But there definitely is a deep-seated culture on netphoria to jump on/attack everything Billy does out the gate. But if he still wrote genuinely good songs then it would naturally dissolve that acerbity. you can't pretend to hate a good song, but you sure as hell can pretend to hate a song that is simply average or mediocre, which is what SP2 is.

tweedyburd
03-03-2010, 09:25 PM
How are they inconsistent? They say pretty much the exact same thing in different ways.

You clearly implied in the earlier post that "maybe not even half" of the songs that "make SP what SP are" could be considered "dynamic" songs. After I listed the vast majority of songs that are generally agreed to be songs that "make SP what SP are," you sort of backed up and punted with the next reply. But anyway, whatever.

I'm curious, what are the "not so great songs" that reached for something more than just one recycled idea, like this new material?

If you don't like the sound, that's one thing. But why try to objectify that opinion with half-baked talk of dynamics that really doesn't say anything one way or the other?

Maybe it's just not clear to you. What a lot of fans are saying that does "say something one way or the other" is that there is a clear lack of structural variety and a clear dependence on unnecessary repetition in the new material, and you can say it's an objectified opinion, but it is basically an objective fact. There is a tangible slide toward lazy, half-assed songwriting when you compare to the past work, and an abandoning of, let's say, each song as an multi-faceted journey that takes the listener down more roads than just one. If Billy was a novelist instead of a songwriter, it would be as if he spent the better part of his career, up until the past 5-8 years, creating rich, detailed portraits of characters and their lives, and then suddenly began recycling those old stories with simplified ideas, amateur prose with less emotion just to put out a product.

A Stitch in Time is definitely no less dynamic than some of the songs people have mentioned in this thread (To Sheila, etc.)

To Sheila is full of movement and changes, I don't know what you're talking about. It has a subtle but extremely effective build up from just one acoustic guitar all the way to synth percussion and banjo. There is absolutely nothing comparable as far as song progression in ASIT.

As to Mayfuck's larger point, I do agree, but the discussion on "dynamics," or lack thereof, is probably the most glaring and reasonable starting point for finding what's missing in Billy's songwriting these days.

Lucy Faringold
03-03-2010, 09:35 PM
Song lacks the swing of the live version. That original violin part in place of the synths would have broken up the monotony of the instrumentation. Synths sound nice but they're a bit too Kraftwerk for this song.

That strumming is way too metronomic if you ask me. Makes the song sound cold when the live version had so much soul.

Not really sure releasing songs one by one is a good idea. Corgan needs time to realise what works on songs like this, plus the drum parts for SFAS and widow need to be completely re-recorded.

Not a disaster but it's clear this track by track process is not allowing Corgan to get the most out of his material.

Still upbeat about hearing more stuff though.

EyesOfAJackal
03-04-2010, 12:51 AM
While Stumbleine might be as repetitive as A Stitch in Time, the context provides a great deal of dynamics. I think it's a great song in itself, but the way it follows Thru the Eyes of Ruby and leads up to XYU is very effective and beautiful.

As for A Stitch in Time, you could forgive it for being yet another cliché-ridden, monotonous, loveless SP2 monstrosity if only it had the context of an album. For now, its only redeeming quality is that it's not godawful.

I think this is a key point.

I honestly think that if this exact same song came in the context of an album with some typical SP epics, some rockers, some weird experiments, some ballads, whatever else and flowed nicely, a lot of people might be gushing about how cool and different it is. Or it might just fit nicely as a neat little left turn, like Cupid de Locke or Sweet Sweet or something. Without that context, as a stand alone, I think it suffers less from its actual merits (although it may suffer from those as well) and more because of the anticipation, spotlight focus, and relative sparsity (well, and weirdness/folksiness) of the song.


Also, I apologize for starting this whole nit-picking about the word "dynamics", I guess it means different things to different folks.

EyesOfAJackal
03-04-2010, 12:58 AM
Just because Stumbleine is quiet and acoustic doesn't make it less dynamic. "Jukebox fucked up" slowing down and then verse rushing on again is on the same level as Geek USA's rollercoaster.

While totally working as stand-alone pieces Medellia and Stumbleine also put you into trance and safe numbness, but they sometimes step out (like that small ascending bridge in Medellia that stops you mid-breath) to make subtle pauses that help everything else rush on you as if it's not an acoustic song, but a balls-out rocker.

Also slowburners like To Sheila grow step-by-step with nuances like throwing in a thoughtful solo guitar or unexpected airy back-up vocals. If it's on spot - even a single note thrown in takes the song on entire new level.

Fair enough. Again, I think we're all having a problem with whatever our definitions of dynamic are. I wasn't trying to insult those old songs at all, I think they're great, that was part of my point. If "dynamics" means "changes in sound quality or mood" and implies not only categorical change (like sad to anger) but degree as well, then I would still say ASIT is equally dynamic. I guess you ******* lyrical content as well, which is valid, I just didn't think of it in that way. But enough on that.

Iha, I like the way you talk about music. Makes me appreciate new aspects of old songs :)

Esty
03-04-2010, 01:13 AM
I heard Zeitgeist just beofre the first Paris gig...I think I realised that things were fucked from the start.

What a load of shit. Fuck off.

stumpycat
03-04-2010, 02:02 AM
Oh god, what a waste of time, i hate all the songs in the spirits in the sky period, its like a worst crappy version of the captain american gothic ep, just boring songs, pop acoustic shit, 70s style... please somebody break all the keyboards he´s using, sound horrible.


Totally agreed. And I was just thinking 'WTF?!' regarding the use of those "keyboards"...he invests in that massive modular synth, and yet this is what comes out of it!? Surely he could be doing cool shit with this MOOG. Yet with whatever kind of synthesizer he's using, it happens to sound far less interesting than his electronic doodling in The Marked.

As far as the album "shaping up" before my eyes...yes, sadly, it is. I am queasy that we'll be blessed with 41 more songs in this vein.

charade
03-04-2010, 08:20 PM
1. the song "stitch in time" is free... no one has payed for hearing it! so if one doesn`t like it, that`s ok because then you became that you`ve payed for.
2. the song must be free, because I guess the most of you don`t buy CDs anymore. this doesn`t mean that you don`t want CDs anymore but this means you prefer to download illegaly. or you guys are hearing tracks via youtube but never buy them though you may hear them quite regulary...
3. that`s why "teargarden" gets released for free. so no one must feel guilty by downloading it without paying anything to the band.
4. that`s why almost every other song from a lot of oher bands is free. they resign and gave up on selling music and by releasing songs for free they could at least get a little attention and poeple who want to see them live.
5. that`s why the great bands will get smaller and the small bands will stay small. they all can`t make it just by playing concerts (lot of small bands can`t even play concerts). by downloading music without paying anything for it you force the artist to play concerts to earn something and force them that their recorded music is just not more worth than nothing...!

the pumpkins broke up because of the napster- and cd-burning-freaks worldwide. there were drastic losses and virgin records had no need to stay behind the pumpkins, because they wasn`t the band they once signed anymore and the labels could better make money with britney spears but not with good acts like the pumpkins.
and as some of you might remember, corgan bitches a lot at britney spears in 2000.

virgin records doesn`t want to sell machina II and I together. machina II was planned as officially release. it wasn`t the decision from the pumpkins to give it away for free.
as you all hopefully know machina II is a great album and they had have way more success by releasing it together with machina I but virgin just wanted to release the more commercial machina I. adore wasn`t that succesful but it was released in a time were poeple had to "buy" CDs. 2000 the whole situation changed.

corgan tried to make new tunes. a new more commercial direction with zwan. zwan didn`t had this success because the label wants them to release the real commercial stuff from zwan...
the 2nd album should became a harder one more like the direction of songs like spilled milk and corgan wanted to show a new side of zwan.

in 2003 it was even more harder to make money with music... the other members were pretty desillusionated, they hopped for more and so they left with zwan-thing.

corgan`s solo-work was planned as future rock. then he started to make it more like future pop. the label let him tour the world with it, so you can guess they didn`t want a new "heavy metal machine" rolling home....
but this stuff sucked and this was the best and last argument for corgan to bring the old pumpkins back and try it with rock again. and because of he reactions he could proof towards the records that there is still a great fanbase hoping for a pumpkins-comeback.

he had just a little time to write zeitgeist and warner gave it a chance. were wasn`t even a band together but still he had to carry songs together because warner records wanted to make this really bombastic tour-thing but they gave just a contract for one record... this was zeitgeist...

instead of the support they all clearly saw the fan reactions towards this new pumpkins. not the best for beeing interested anymore as a mayjor and right, in 2007 it`s even more impossibe to make money with a cd and bands that have not a real fanbase.

so you all try to just see the fault on corgan`s side. but it`s a lot about labels and this fielsharing-thing too because in the end it`s a lot about money and this means a lot of pressure and limits. the less a label can earn with music the more they will tend to let their artist bring out the more commercial stuff. especially because the pumpkins once had all those "hits" the pressure was immense and the only way out for corgan was to break out of his function and self-created stereotyps ("zero..".) by still trying to function and writing songs that seem to be in a direction that "could" be suited for the masses. nowadays this can´t be this grunge and alternative x-thing anymore were you can sing like "a rat in a cage".

I gues from the view of the labels and the market it`s about generating enough new fans. the old fans all own the old cds already and a lot of them have seen enough pumpkins-concerts and we as old fans doesn`t get any younger. but if he can make really new fans that are jsut 15-20 years old, they maybe will buy some of the old CDs too and also support all his future activities.

but for reaching this new fans he can`t look at the alternative nation anymore because nowadays this is not the music that "sells". lok at other mid-90-generation-x bands... placebo... garbage...soundgarden (->audioslave->chris cornell)...manson... gewn stefani (from "no doubt")... chilli peppers...jj72... silverchair...
some more, some less but all of them get really more commercial.

best wishes

charade

The Jesus
03-04-2010, 08:28 PM
GTFO Billy! ^

dustrock
03-04-2010, 08:39 PM
billy would never stoop to spelling that poorly

nofix
03-04-2010, 11:55 PM
i wonder if billy farted while writing this song at all?

dustrock
03-05-2010, 12:27 AM
just curious: for the people that don't like Stitch, how do you rate it compared to anything else released by SP 2.0? Zeitgeist/American Gothic/GLOW/Superchrist/FOL

Still think it's one of the best songs to come out of the sequel. I guess we can't say "reunion" anymore. :(

applepwnz
03-05-2010, 01:25 AM
I honestly don't mind GLOW/Superchrist/FOL, it sounds more like "Smashing Pumpkins" than ASIT a little bit I think, ASIT seems like the most "Smashing Pumpkins" song off of Teargarden so far though, hopefully if corgan doesn't totally fuck up As Rome Burns, I think that'll be the best thing "post-reunion" though.

applepwnz
03-05-2010, 03:05 AM
Drunk listen, IE it should be awesome, it still feels forced...

Shallowed
03-05-2010, 03:22 AM
I guess we can't say "reunion" anymore. :(

Billy doesn't like that word anyway. He prefers "reformation"

Of course he would fucking prefer that if it was originally just him and Jimmy. He's so obsessed with justifying his failures that he ends up justifying everything he does in an attempt to patch up his ego.

RenewRevive
03-05-2010, 11:33 AM
I like it. Probably better than Song for a Son, in that nothing is screwed up (like the woeful end of SfaS). I listened with zero expectation after Widow (which for all its many faults is catchy, insomuch as I can't get the fucking thing out of my head - thanks for that Billy) and was pleasantly surprised. Like Widow I wasn't at all familiar with it, (having listened to the tour performances only once) so can't comment on changes from live>studio, but i liked the sitar and the general vibe. Vocals okay, lyrics of course not real good.

As far as this "dynamic" argument goes I'll agree essentially with Mayfuck on this. Someone quoted Thirty-three as an example of a dynamic (as in shifts in the song's form, not loud-quiet) and to be honest i love the song but cannot see a whole lot of variance in there. You could argue Tarantula has a lot more shifts, but they always felt somewhat forced to me.

I give the song a 7/10, with SfaS maybe 6.5 and Widow a 4.

And I still don't get the adulation for Gossamer, seriously.

T&T
03-05-2010, 11:56 AM
these are the top songs guys!
woot woot!
the diamonds!


better just shoot yourselves now.

dustrock
03-05-2010, 12:51 PM
No, I read it as a decision made after he had recorded the first 4 songs.

These songs all came out of the SITS tour where he was trying out the "b pile" of songs.

So the Super-Awesome #1 Hits should be previously unheard by us.

CourtJaster
03-05-2010, 01:03 PM
I still like SFAS more.

At least that sounded like an SP song.

reprise85
03-05-2010, 01:55 PM
Probably the best SP2/3 song, imo... not that that says very much. But I do like it. Maybe Death From Above is better, but I can't really think of anything else that's up there with those. Maybe Tarantula, but as has been pointed out, it's a bit contrived. This is only going by songs that have been officially released, not live stuff. Live would go to Gossamer, hands down.

Spira|_
03-05-2010, 04:36 PM
Better than the others 2 songs.... A little more feeling in maybe.
Anyway stills a bad and poor song.

Conclusion: I would never had felt in love with SP because of this song.

Solution: Billy needs to get his heart broken and to be on drugs again.

Future: This is not going happen again. :(

What to do: ...Well we have more 41 outs to get the nuts.

Caine Walker
03-05-2010, 06:58 PM
What to do: ...Well we have more 41 outs to get the nuts.

lol wut

Shallowed
03-05-2010, 08:39 PM
FLIPNUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111

Caine Walker
03-05-2010, 08:57 PM
these threads bring evvvvveryone out.