View Full Version : Widow Wake My Mind


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Sebastian
01-17-2010, 02:17 PM
http://smashingpumpkins.com.s3.amazonaws.com/player/mp3/Widow-Wake-My-Mind.mp3

(absolutely no lemonparty this time)

Machinist
01-17-2010, 02:22 PM
thanks for the linkage. I see that an Italian fan figured this one out before it went official lol

Sebastian
01-17-2010, 02:24 PM
Yeah, hail to the Italians! Not even did they invent good food, they also rock at the interwebs!

Here's the original source: 02. Widow Wake My Mind - Teargarden by Kaleidyscope (http://bcit.forumcommunity.net/?t=34724940)

T&T
01-17-2010, 02:24 PM
oh!

T&T
01-17-2010, 02:25 PM
oh oh!

Machinist
01-17-2010, 02:25 PM
oh oh oh oh oh oh a-oh oh oh oh

T&T
01-17-2010, 02:26 PM
uh oh!


widow wake my mind
are you real this time?

Sebastian
01-17-2010, 02:26 PM
For some reason this downloads as "Widow-Make-My-Mind.mp3".

Spaldz
01-17-2010, 02:28 PM
Hehe. Those Italian tricksters! To be fair, I've done that loads of times on SP.com trying to find out if they've put something up online but not linked to it on the site yet. Good times.

BCIT
01-17-2010, 02:28 PM
Oops :)

Machinist
01-17-2010, 02:30 PM
so first listen and while I like the sound he is going for, I really hate the lyrics

Pizza Club
01-17-2010, 02:30 PM
Haha, I saw my oink RSS feed and was like "uh?"

Sebastian
01-17-2010, 02:30 PM
The drumming is meh.

Spaldz
01-17-2010, 02:31 PM
oh my god he's quite clearly been listening to Take That - Shine. It sounds the fucking same! My girlfriend is going to rip me for this when she has a listen.

Machinist
01-17-2010, 02:31 PM
haha, that is it ruined for me now :/

Sebastian
01-17-2010, 02:32 PM
oh my god he's quite clearly been listening to Take That - Shine.

How in the world do you even know what that Take That song sounds like? This is soooo wrong!

Pizza Club
01-17-2010, 02:32 PM
It's very Zwany

TuralyonW3
01-17-2010, 02:33 PM
This sucks pretty bad. lol at 1:49-53

hnibos
01-17-2010, 02:34 PM
sigh

Spaldz
01-17-2010, 02:35 PM
How in the world do you even know what that Take That song sounds like? This is soooo wrong!

Take That - Shine

YouTube - Take That Shine [Polydor] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcBGLUfmtdg&feature=related)

B0lly's just basically ripped the chorus of that song off. Let it shiiine, let it shine

Future Boy
01-17-2010, 02:37 PM
yowza

TuralyonW3
01-17-2010, 02:37 PM
who enjoys a song like this.

Future Boy
01-17-2010, 02:38 PM
oh oh oh oh oh oh a-oh

That about sums it up.

T&T
01-17-2010, 02:40 PM
who enjoys a song like this.

jessica simpson.

Pizza Club
01-17-2010, 02:40 PM
After two listens:

Song is okay. The music is pleasant, besides that retarded fill that someone mentioned. Lyrics are ungood.

Sebastian
01-17-2010, 02:41 PM
jessica simpson.

Where has her love gone? It's not in her music.

hnibos
01-17-2010, 02:41 PM
Lyrics are ungood.

jessica simpson will probably get the credit for them

reprise85
01-17-2010, 02:42 PM
sigh

this is like an even worse 'love' song than that's the way

reprise85
01-17-2010, 02:47 PM
does not one person in on this record process have the balls to say when something overly sucks. i mean like is completely ridiculous like that ascending part thing

redbull
01-17-2010, 02:49 PM
the beginning of this sounds EXACTLY like the pre-chorus poker face by lady gaga

reprise85
01-17-2010, 02:50 PM
also funny how the drums are the least offensive part of this song

redbull
01-17-2010, 02:50 PM
unfortunately poker face is a better song

jimmy drevpile
01-17-2010, 02:53 PM
This sucks pretty bad. lol at 1:49-53
^

Rickpat12
01-17-2010, 02:55 PM
Haha, I find it funny that a track from this project leaked.

T&T
01-17-2010, 02:56 PM
smashing pumpkins songs need context.
these songs are going to continue to be a loss to me.

Rickpat12
01-17-2010, 02:57 PM
Also...the million b0lly choir is back in the end...but done right this time.

Spaldz
01-17-2010, 03:00 PM
Also...the million b0lly choir is back in the end...but done right this time.

haha. It sure is back. I preferred the guitar layering on Thru The Eyes of Ruby..shame that wasn't done with Billy voices instead.

Elvis The Fat Years
01-17-2010, 03:02 PM
if the whole song was like 1:54 - 2:07 it would be good.

Rickpat12
01-17-2010, 03:03 PM
I think the vocals are much better on this track. Overall it's pretty alright. Nothing special. Production is pretty good though.

reprise85
01-17-2010, 03:04 PM
it goes absolutely nowhere

redbull
01-17-2010, 03:08 PM
dad-rock

wHATcOLOR
01-17-2010, 03:17 PM
what a piece of shit

xforewarnedx
01-17-2010, 03:22 PM
I'm on the fence with it. Some of it I like, some I don't care for. The level that the keys are on with this song is a bit much in areas. Seems like it swallows up the song in areas too much.

Spaldz
01-17-2010, 03:23 PM
I've listened to it a few times...Not a fan so am ready for the next song. When can I expect it Mr Corgan?

Sorry what? Over another month? Wait..what the fuck is this shit you're trying to pull??

SlingeroGuitaro
01-17-2010, 03:24 PM
i cant listen past the hi-hat. its a blinding light of hi-hat

Rickpat12
01-17-2010, 03:27 PM
Is Strawberry on vocals w/ this track? I know she's supposed to show up on this EP. It seems like she might be on the "oh"s

Corganist
01-17-2010, 03:27 PM
On first listen I think I like Song for a Son more. I don't like the synthy keyboards behind everything. It takes the power out of the guitar and makes things sound a little cheesy. I like the way the guitar sounds, I just think that there's too much going on.

This sounds to me like it'd be at home on American Gothic. I can't convince myself whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.

dustrock
01-17-2010, 03:29 PM
This is Honestly 2.0.

I've never really liked Billy's happy songs.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 03:30 PM
amazing to me that back in the day he wouldn't let james and darcy record on SP songs, yet he has no problem letting this shitty drummer crap all over these tracks.

songs blows. big surprise. 0.5 out of 10.

SlingeroGuitaro
01-17-2010, 03:30 PM
it sounds how prozak feels

dustrock
01-17-2010, 03:32 PM
god when did he turn into the worst lyricist in the world?

he and bono could have a contest for overly repetitive sappy lyrics.

I'm trying to think of a song on Zeigeist worse than this.

cardiac
01-17-2010, 03:37 PM
What a piece of shit :(

Awful, awful lyrics. I doubt I'll give this a second listen, ever. Dear mother of god, this is worse than I could have ever imagined.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 03:38 PM
not interested in listening to this again.

cardiac
01-17-2010, 03:42 PM
Attempted to give it another go, but I simply couldn't bare to stand for more than about two minutes. This is just mindblowingly bad. So this is what passes for The Smashing Pumpkins these days? Fucking hell. Apparently I'm still a fan enough to be upset about how the mighty have fallen. Just. Fuck. Ruined my night.

:(

dustrock
01-17-2010, 03:44 PM
I think the mix is better overall, and it's definitely better on headphones. Song still sucks though. Even the iTunes artwork is the same as ASFAS. :(

Edit: and what's with that weird flange in the verse?

Rickpat12
01-17-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm thinking they'll change the artwork? This isn't the official release. What I took is some guy found the URL or whatever.

reprise85
01-17-2010, 03:48 PM
who cares song sucks

Nihilo
01-17-2010, 03:52 PM
This sucks pretty bad. lol at 1:49-53

LOL, that part sounds like Wesley Willis

dustrock
01-17-2010, 03:54 PM
holy shit on headphones at one point all I can hear is hi-hat on the right channel.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 03:54 PM
anyone who ever criticized jimmy for overplaying can now eat a crow sandwhich.

i've listened to some crappy SP songs, but so far none that have given me a physical headache like this one has.

redbull
01-17-2010, 03:55 PM
dont insult wesley like that

Nihilo
01-17-2010, 03:59 PM
dont insult wesley like that

Sorry, but reminds me "Suck a cheetas d1ck" intro, LOL

redbull
01-17-2010, 04:01 PM
wait, you mean this isn't being deleted/banned from the o-board?

dustrock
01-17-2010, 04:01 PM
this will quickly go the way of Pox and Again x3. I.e., will never listen to.

duovamp
01-17-2010, 04:04 PM
lmfao @ the drumming

Is he serious?

paranoid
01-17-2010, 04:05 PM
pox and againx3 blow this song out of the water.

Sebastian
01-17-2010, 04:06 PM
wait, you mean this isn't being deleted/banned from the o-board?

I didn't even know the o-board still exists. I thought it was taken down during the latest sp.com site redesign. Seems like you need to be looking for it to be able to find it.

duovamp
01-17-2010, 04:08 PM
How many words are in this song? 20?

paranoid
01-17-2010, 04:10 PM
this record will not make it to the completed 44. he'll get frustrated with the lack of attention it's getting and give up.

Corganist
01-17-2010, 04:14 PM
After a few more listens:

- Still don't like the keyboard dominating everything. "Dad-rock" or not, SFAS's guitar and bass dominated approach had a better sound.

- Once again, the drumming is just fine. Not great, not terrible. There is the one awkward sounding part at 1:49-1:53, but I think that's more due to the weird ascending part leading to the break than any technical lapse in the drumming. It was just a weird arrangement choice, and it almost sounds like they there was some weird editing going on to try and make it work. Should have left it like the live version, IMO.

- The drums at least sound good this time, unlike SFAS.

- Song is a minute and a half too long. If it ended at 3:04, it'd be so much better.

Overall, this is pretty middling. It's not going to be anyone's favorite SP song (or even anyone's favorite on Teargarden), but it's not awful. It's right there in the squishy middle 50 percent of all SP songs. Pretty mediocre.

Mablak
01-17-2010, 04:25 PM
This song isn't terrible, but it is bad to the point where I can only stomach listening to it once, like song for a song for a song.

Corgan can go to hell, but I feel really bad for Mike Byrne. It must have dawned on him that Billy has no creativity anymore, but it would be difficult to just up and leave a well-known rock band. I just hope that after this 9 to 44 song shitfest is over he can figure out some way to escape.

duovamp
01-17-2010, 04:26 PM
Sounds a lot like Let's Rock.

TuralyonW3
01-17-2010, 04:28 PM
what sp songs are worse than this song?

reprise85
01-17-2010, 04:31 PM
maybe some songs on zeitgeist and american gothic but nothing else

but yeah then again maybe nothing, this is pretty bad

TuralyonW3
01-17-2010, 04:33 PM
i'm seriously trying to think of a corgan-penned song that I like less than this song

Gish08
01-17-2010, 04:34 PM
-Shitty drumming. He is ruining the songs even further with such shitty drumming.
-Shitty lyrics
-Is that Jessica in the background?

2/10

reprise85
01-17-2010, 04:34 PM
pretty bad when you'd rather listen to french movie theme huh

Gish08
01-17-2010, 04:36 PM
Oh man, I wish Billy would wake the fuck up and realize how much he is pissing away here

paranoid
01-17-2010, 04:36 PM
but I feel really bad for Mike Byrne. It must have dawned on him that Billy has no creativity anymore, but it would be difficult to just up and leave a well-known rock band. I just hope that after this 9 to 44 song shitfest is over he can figure out some way to escape.

are you kidding? this is the only time in his career he'll get any recognition for his drumming, he's loving this right now. if he can play as crappy as he does and think he sound decent enough for a recording, I suspect he probably feels corgan is still a creative force to be reckoned with.

Astur
01-17-2010, 04:36 PM
Well it's not a bad song... ok, it's horrible, but I think it's an improvement compared to Song for a Son... Drumming seems strange or out of place, though way less retarded than the previous song.

The keyboards are awful...

Bah, forget it, it's a fucking shit

Gish08
01-17-2010, 04:38 PM
Song for a Son was good.

This is absolute shit.

Mike Bryne SUCKS. He's barely above average and has no technique whatsoever, he's very amateur and bland sounding. I mean really.

Billy Corgan is such a fucking idiot. What happened to this guy? He got a lot of shit last decade, I know, but most of it was unjustified. He still had a lot of talent. All of the sudden Jimmy quits and everything goes to shit. It's like the man stopped caring, I don't know.

My fucking god, how depressing.

Spaldz
01-17-2010, 04:39 PM
The problem is after listening to this song it makes Zwan look fucking awesome. Honestly was a million times better than this....and thats saying something!

paranoid
01-17-2010, 04:40 PM
i'm seriously trying to think of a corgan-penned song that I like less than this song

come with me was pretty terrible as was pomp and circumstances.. but this still takes the cake.

You Said
01-17-2010, 04:41 PM
MAKE. MIND. SHINE. LOVE.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 04:42 PM
Mike . He's barely above average and has no technique whatsoever, he's very amateur and bland sounding. I mean really.


IVE BEEN SAYING THIS ALL ALONG THANK YOU.

Astur
01-17-2010, 04:42 PM
it makes Zwan look fucking awesome

Waaaay fucking awesome

The Jesus
01-17-2010, 04:43 PM
I think I'll need to recalibrate the Shit-o-meter (http://forums.netphoria.org/smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-discussion/169087-song-song-up-9.html#post3581143) for this song.

Gish08
01-17-2010, 04:43 PM
Hate being at the bottom

Machinist
01-17-2010, 04:45 PM
So close to ending it with anything this guy does now :/

Gish08
01-17-2010, 04:48 PM
This is really sad, guys. I always expected Billy to never be the commercial success he once was back in the 90's, but to always retain a sense artistic integrity. And really, with songs like Gossamer, As Rome Burns, Superchrist, and even Song for a Son, I figured that would be the case. I really don't have confidence in him anymore. I think his output from this point forward is going to be completely random and uninspired.

Two decades of amazing music and all of the sudden he carries on with a shitty drummer, Jessica Simpson, and not a care in the world for channeling what usually makes him so great. What a dipshit.

Gish08
01-17-2010, 04:50 PM
OH, OH OH

OH, OH AHOHOH

Corganist
01-17-2010, 04:52 PM
Man, the drama queens on this board make me really want to like this song more than I do. Never mind the fact that it never had a chance with most of you in the first place, you all act like Billy has never put out a mediocre song in his life before now. Like he has never let a James Iha song onto an SP album. Like he never thought Annie Dog was an album track. Like he never recorded Because You Are, or Le Deux Machina, or Sunkissed, or Innosence. To act like he's plumbing the depths of his creativity now of all times is just plain being ignorant of the man's work.

Clearly this isn't the best the man can do. But it is far, far, FAR from the worst stuff put out under the SP name. Get a fucking grip people.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 04:56 PM
lol all those songs you listed are pretty great, minus le duex.

you get a grip.

Disarmu
01-17-2010, 04:58 PM
Its Zwan but Gayer and with more rainbows and bunnies..I fell sick...

Gish08
01-17-2010, 05:00 PM
Corganist's damage control is uncanny.

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mLPPlRDOZx0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mLPPlRDOZx0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

This is a great song.

Gish08
01-17-2010, 05:02 PM
Dude even the beginning of SP2 (basically until Jimmy's departure) was pretty damn good, the live show was fucking amazing.

I was nearly like Corganist up until this point (and a couple years ago, I was no different). Pretty much shows you how bad Corgan done fucked up, yalls

mellon_c0llie
01-17-2010, 05:02 PM
You guys are a bunch wimps. It takes a real man to like sp and not complain. By the way this song rules. 2 for 2!

The Jesus
01-17-2010, 05:04 PM
Songs 1 & 2 have really poor endings.

Gish08
01-17-2010, 05:04 PM
I hope Billy gets booed off stage whenever he tours again

Songs 1 & 2 have really poor endings.
At the end of Song 1 it sounds like he's taking a lubricated finger out of his ass

redbull
01-17-2010, 05:04 PM
this is a good song:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HjScwqOLO_4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HjScwqOLO_4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

wHATcOLOR
01-17-2010, 05:04 PM
Man, the drama queens on this board make me really want to like this song more than I do. Never mind the fact that it never had a chance with most of you in the first place, you all act like Billy has never put out a mediocre song in his life before now. Like he has never let a James Iha song onto an SP album. Like he never thought Annie Dog was an album track. Like he never recorded Because You Are, or Le Deux Machina, or Sunkissed, or Innosence. To act like he's plumbing the depths of his creativity now of all times is just plain being ignorant of the man's work.

Clearly this isn't the best the man can do. But it is far, far, FAR from the worst stuff put out under the SP name. Get a fucking grip people.


most of those things you listed occurred in a context where they were accompanied by tons of great music to balance it out

Catherine Wheel
01-17-2010, 05:04 PM
Like he never recorded Because You Are, or Le Deux Machina, or Sunkissed, or Innosence

What exactly is so bad about Because You Are or Innosence? They are at least more creative and lyrically interesting than this new stuff.

Corganist
01-17-2010, 05:05 PM
lol all those songs you listed are pretty great, minus le duex.

You're kidding me, right?

:think:

Really?

New Art Rioter
01-17-2010, 05:06 PM
A perplexing song. I didn't really mind the live version, but this isn't going down too well. A Stitch In Time I really liked, surely the studio version of that has to be good? Please??!

Gish08
01-17-2010, 05:06 PM
Sunkissed was great too.

Corganist is just desperate for ammo here. Stop defending Billy dude, he totally lost it after Jimmy left. It was so rapid that I don't even think you are realizing it. It's ok man, we're here for you

anonadieu
01-17-2010, 05:10 PM
My main problem with this song is that it's really fucking annoying. Just absolutely grating and sickly sweet. I don't care that it's happy or upbeat--its problem is that it's a bad song, badly executed. And a chore to listen to.

And I don't want to hear about how his "love" will "shine". What a lazy, lazy sentiment. How many times has some b-rate songwriter halfheartedly uttered those words?

And why does it keep going on and on and on? Did he really think that this one dreadful idea was enough to carry an entire song?

I actually quite liked Song For A Son. I wasn't blown away, but it was reasonably good. This, on the other hand, is dire. I have a very difficult time reconciling the fact that this is the same man who wrote To Sheila.

Gish08
01-17-2010, 05:13 PM
I have a very difficult time reconciling the fact that this is the same man who wrote To Sheila.
It's not the same man. It really isn't. He's basically a completely different person.

If Billy knew in even 1998 that he would be fucking Jessica Simpson, spending studio time with her, potentially marrying her... replacing Jimmy with a talentless 19 year old... he'd have gone more crazy than he already is.

Corganist
01-17-2010, 05:15 PM
most of those things you listed occurred in a context where they were accompanied by tons of great music to balance it out

Well, that's the drawback to releasing everything one track at a time. Sure, it's discouraging if you get a couple duds in a row, but a little perspective goes a long way. If Billy had released Adore the way he's releasing Teargarden, I would have declared Billy's creative well dry if we got the awful run of Tale of Dusty, Annie Dog, and Shame in three successive months if I was as dramatic as most people here. But then I would have missed out on Behold the Night Mare, For Martha, and Blank Page. There's no reason to think that Billy doesn't have something better around the corner.

I don't fault anybody for not liking the song. I just don't think it's the end of Billy's career or anywhere close to the worst song in the SP catalog.

And I don't think any of you really do either.

wHATcOLOR
01-17-2010, 05:18 PM
Well, that's the drawback to releasing everything one track at a time. Sure, it's discouraging if you get a couple duds in a row, but a little perspective goes a long way. If Billy had released Adore the way he's releasing Teargarden, I would have declared Billy's creative well dry if we got the awful run of Tale of Dusty, Annie Dog, and Shame in three successive months if I was as dramatic as most people here. But then I would have missed out on Behold the Night Mare, For Martha, and Blank Page. There's no reason to think that Billy doesn't have something better around the corner.

I don't fault anybody for not liking the song. I just don't think it's the end of Billy's career or anywhere close to the worst song in the SP catalog.

we just disagree, i think the songs you list rule. but i definitely agree one song at a time is idiotic.

and as for perspective, that can go both ways. perspective: zeitgeist is a piece of shit, american gothic is a piece of shit, GLOW is a piece of shit, FOL is a piece of shit, Superchrist is a piece of shit, Jimmy wants no part of the piece of shit band anymore, he hires a piece of shit kid drummer and a bunch of piece of shit hippies and it's not surprising the music is a piece of shit

paranoid
01-17-2010, 05:19 PM
I don't know what's more annoying, widow wake my mind or corganist.

Gish08
01-17-2010, 05:19 PM
Corganist, how can you, at the very least, not be cautiously optimistic about Billy's creative output now?

His career is certainly on the line. The only thing that carried him through the indefinite lull that was the post-MCIS era was his reputation for being a very smart, gifted musician. That's nearly gone now.

SlingeroGuitaro
01-17-2010, 05:22 PM
holy shit on headphones at one point all I can hear is hi-hat on the right channel.

thats exactly what i meant

thomas_bland
01-17-2010, 05:28 PM
Certainly not as terrible as people are making out. Yes the drums are shoddy, but I guess we all knew that was likely to be the case. The guitars sound great, the backing vocals are really really good, they make it sound more alive than anything off Z - more like a collective. Also the use of keys gives me hope that there'll be a few great songs to come in this project. Song For A Son is great.

I really liked the lyrics until someone mentioned the Take That link and now it'll be forever equated to Richard Hammond. Ugh.

This whole month+ between songs is killing the project though and it'd be better if there was a natural transition between songs, one of the good things about albums.

As long as they haven't killed A Stitch in Time or Astral Plains in the studio then i'll probably be happy with the first EP.

SPLATTER
01-17-2010, 05:30 PM
Im kind of in shock

Dogfighter28
01-17-2010, 05:30 PM
:rofl:

paranoid
01-17-2010, 05:31 PM
back when he was recording SD, MCIS, and Adore, he was 110% into what he was doing. all music all day. now it's a little bit of that, with large chunks of time also devoted to his ridiculous website, his new book, new label, new publicity stunts (J simpson) and whatever else. the music he's releasing now reflects where's he at now. he just doesn't have the passion for it now like he used to.

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 05:32 PM
Man, the drama queens on this board make me really want to like this song more than I do. Never mind the fact that it never had a chance with most of you in the first place, you all act like Billy has never put out a mediocre song in his life before now. Like he has never let a James Iha song onto an SP album. Like he never thought Annie Dog was an album track. Like he never recorded Because You Are, or Le Deux Machina, or Sunkissed, or Innosence. To act like he's plumbing the depths of his creativity now of all times is just plain being ignorant of the man's work.

Clearly this isn't the best the man can do. But it is far, far, FAR from the worst stuff put out under the SP name. Get a fucking grip people.

He's done some pretty mediocre stuff, but I can't think of any album material that has ever approached this level of awfulness. This makes Tarantula look like Soma.

I like everything on every album all the way through MACHINA II. Because You Are sucks and was easily my least favorite Pumpkins song until now. Annie Dog is great. Innocence or however he spells it is nice.

MSOTS is ok and has actually aged fairly well for me. Half of TFE is brilliant. Zeitgesit is not good enough for a Pumpkins album or for repeated listenings for years and years, but it's ok. There are some good songs, some good ideas. It's not the worthless pile of shit this song is.

Peace and Love/99 Floors/some of those other songs is the last time I think I saw songwriting potential in Billy. Superchrist, GLOW, and fuck, even FOL are better than this excuse for a song.

I will still download everything he puts out just in case. But I have no expectations anymore, and it's a little fucking sad.

TuralyonW3
01-17-2010, 05:37 PM
Man, the drama queens on this board make me really want to like this song more than I do. Never mind the fact that it never had a chance with most of you in the first place, you all act like Billy has never put out a mediocre song in his life before now. Like he has never let a James Iha song onto an SP album. Like he never thought Annie Dog was an album track. Like he never recorded Because You Are, or Le Deux Machina, or Sunkissed, or Innosence. To act like he's plumbing the depths of his creativity now of all times is just plain being ignorant of the man's work.

Clearly this isn't the best the man can do. But it is far, far, FAR from the worst stuff put out under the SP name. Get a fucking grip people.


All those songs you name are much better than this song, from a songwriting, production, and performance standpoint. Who's being a drama queen? I'm not lying when I say I have to strain to think of a worse Corgan-penned song than this.

Dogfighter28
01-17-2010, 05:37 PM
I'm on Team Turdillion

paranoid
01-17-2010, 05:39 PM
I'm on Team Turdillion

annoying.

Corganist
01-17-2010, 05:42 PM
Corganist, how can you, at the very least, not be cautiously optimistic about Billy's creative output now?

His career is certainly on the line. The only thing that carried him through the indefinite lull that was the post-MCIS era was his reputation for being a very smart, gifted musician. That's nearly gone now.

I'm not worried about his career or his reputation. We all know good and fucking well he's not going to stop making music, whether he's famous for it or not, whether he's paid for it or not. So why worry about it? Why not just take the songs for what they are? If they're good, good. If they're mediocre, then complain. But why the need to try and fret over his legacy? It reeks of some kind of need to tell yourself, "I've been investing myself into something important that other people approve of"...as though if Billy Corgan goes down in the books as a huge joke that it somehow means something bad on you for being a fan. The stakes aren't that fucking high.

Billy has written mediocre songs before. He's written many songs worse than this one. If one of those songs came out today, most of you would be saying the exact same things you're saying now. To. the. letter. I doubt anyone here would be bending over backwards to defend drek like Because You Are if it was the new Teargarden track. You'd all be saying exactly what you are now, "Worst SP track ever" (and this time, rightfully so). Is it really too much for me to think that maybe not every move Billy makes is a step towards oblivion and obscurity? That maybe he's still capable of "below average" rather than "shittiest shit that was ever shat"?

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 05:43 PM
Billy has written mediocre songs before. He's written many songs worse than this one. If one of those songs came out today, most of you would be saying the exact same things you're saying now. To. the. letter. I doubt anyone here would be bending over backwards to defend drek like Because You Are if it was the new Teargarden track. You'd all be saying exactly what you are now, "Worst SP track ever" (and this time, rightfully so). Is it really too much for me to think that maybe not every move Billy makes is a step towards oblivion and obscurity? That maybe he's still capable of "below average" rather than "shittiest shit that was ever shat"?

1. Because You Are was a b-side.
2. No other song comes close to being as bad as this one. You're wrong about every example you've cited.

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 05:44 PM
the sad part is that the intro made me thing

"ok i won't love this but whatever"

and it just got so much worse.

SPLATTER
01-17-2010, 05:47 PM
It's better than song for a son. Which tragically doesn't make it listenable either.

TuralyonW3
01-17-2010, 05:50 PM
1. Because You Are was a b-side.
2. No other song comes close to being as bad as this one. You're wrong about every example you've cited.

and at least because you are has some tasty chamberlain drumming and interesting textures. compare that to zero redeeming qualities.

Corganist
01-17-2010, 05:50 PM
Whatever. I've put way too much effort into pseudo-defending this mediocre song than I wanted.

I think the lesson I'll take away is that if I give it a few years, the same people who bash this song now will be telling me that it was really "pretty great."

Dogfighter28
01-17-2010, 05:51 PM
I think Billy should cover the song Becuz by Sonic Youth

paranoid
01-17-2010, 05:51 PM
@ corganists last long drawn out post: yeah but he said himself he was going to put more effort into making each song the best it can be, making them special in their own right, not making filler tracks, etc etc etc. and this is what he comes up with?

and for the record, yes i enjoyed because you are. innocence is a gorgeous song. annie dog is fantastic.. he's written no other song like it. it has this jazzy death dirge to it that match the twisted lyrics very well. interesting chords and textures. if he released that today i'd think he was getting back on his game. sunkissed was the best tune on american gothic, heck one of the better ones from the Z era.

To. the. letter. shut the fuck up god you are such a twat.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 05:57 PM
and at least because you are has some tasty drumming and interesting . that to zero redeeming qualities.

Actually that was Matt Cameron drumming... who did a great job on the tracks he played with SP.

SPLATTER
01-17-2010, 05:57 PM
the great thing about this project is we can now wait another 5 weeks to get hit with another one

TuralyonW3
01-17-2010, 05:58 PM
f I give it a few years, the same people who bash this song now will be telling me that it was really "pretty great."

At this rate I don't think anyone will be thinking about Widow Make My Mind in a few years

T&T
01-17-2010, 05:58 PM
Whatever. I've put way too more effort into pseudo-defending this mediocre song than I wanted.

I think the lesson I'll take away is that if I give it a few years, the same people who bash this song now will be telling me that it was really "pretty great."

that's what corgans been doing ever since Z came out.
lowering the bar.

i guess you're right and he can keep that up.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 06:02 PM
now listening to pisces iscariot. WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS BAND?

TuralyonW3
01-17-2010, 06:04 PM
netphoria: "this song sucks"

corganist: "actually not as bad as you think it does"

netphoria: "actually it kinda does"

corganist: "no you're wrong"

netphoria: "no you're wrong"

corganist: "f u netphoria peace out"

stumpycat
01-17-2010, 06:07 PM
Fucking hell. :erm: This is depraved.
If Corgan can put out crap like this (which makes Zwan's "happy" music look positively sophisticated) I can totally believe that he is banging also Jessica Simpson and might possibly marry her.

Also, the "drum fill" at 1:49--it sounds like a bad old midi.

Corganist
01-17-2010, 06:14 PM
@ corganists last long drawn out post: yeah but he said himself he was going to put more effort into making each song the best it can be, making them special in their own right, not making filler tracks, etc etc etc. and this is what he comes up with?

I'm as disappointed as anyone. I just don't think hyperbole does anything to assuage that disappointment. Obviously something's going awry here, but I'm not going to sit here and say that this song is worse than all James Iha SP songs just to show how mad I am about it. It's just not true.

Personally, I think it's clear now that Billy doesn't have a deep well of songs to cull material from right now. The Spirits stuff and the Backwards Clock stuff wasn't the "oh, this is the stuff we're not sure about and we just want to gauge the crowd reaction" collection like they made it out. It's all they're working with. Billy's clearly writing this album as he goes.

and for the record, yes i enjoyed because you are. innocence is a gorgeous song. annie dog is fantastic.. he's written no other song like it. it has this jazzy death dirge to it that match the twisted lyrics very well. interesting chords and textures. if he released that today i'd think he was getting back on his game. sunkissed was the best tune on american gothic, heck one of the better ones from the Z era.

You know, I sometimes forget that Netphoria is the Bizarro world of SP fandom where Adore is seen as Billy's creative peak instead of the massive misstep that it really was.

tweedyburd
01-17-2010, 06:19 PM
I think the lesson I'll take away is that if I give it a few years, the same people who bash this song now will be telling me that it was really "pretty great."

That's doubtful.

Billy has released music in the past that aged gracefully and got better (or was better understood) a few years down the road, but I'm not sure how this could possibly qualify. I don't know how others felt, but when Adore came out I didn't much care for it, mainly because I was confused and didn't really get it. Same goes for most of the Machina stuff. With time, I came to love those albums.

There was a depth there that is lacking in any of this new material. Like someone else said above, how much more half-assed and generic can you get than this "let my love shine" crap? There's really nothing he's saying that hasn't been expressed more artfully and gracefully in a hundred other songs he's written.

It really is because he just doesn't care as much anymore, it has to be. He's just flailing around, and it's starting to become more and more obvious. Before, he was locked into contracts and constantly under pressure to deliver, and that usually translated into great recordings. Everything about this new album, from the not-even-half-assed web site design, to the absence of any real build-up/marketing splash, to the broken deadlines and all the distractions, it's pretty clear he doesn't value his music in the same way he once did. Not that that's a bad thing, everyone grows and evolves and pursues other interests, but to try to sell it to us like he has this calling to put his faith into music and be on this crusade, I mean, please!

I thought it was a neat idea when he said one of the main reasons for the ongoing release schedule is so he can focus 100 percent and devote everything to each individual track, but so far the only thing that's come to fruition in that regard is the age-old adage that you can't polish a turd.

Corganist
01-17-2010, 06:19 PM
netphoria: "this song sucks"

corganist: "actually not as bad as you think it does"

netphoria: "actually it kinda does"

corganist: "as bad as these songs, some of which were universally despised last I checked?"

netphoria: "those songs are all awesome now. they've always been awesome"

corganist: "no you're wrong"

netphoria: "no you're wrong"

corganist: "f u netphoria peace out"

Now it's accurate.

Lucy Faringold
01-17-2010, 06:22 PM
Oh lordy, I wasn't expecting all this negativity :erm:

Flame me all you like, but I'm enjoying this. Obvs the lyrics are trite but it's a fucking guitar-pop song about love.

Those melodies are freaking gorgeous and don't even try to deny that Bolly's layered vocals actually sound good.

Also more nice organ work but I'm not sure about the very high-pitched synth sounds in the background of the verses that are kind of uncomfortable to listen to.

I'm really not understanding exactly what people find so disagreeable about this song.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 06:29 PM
man corganist you will drag yourself through the mud to defend this guy. some of us don't like the song. deal with it.

Also, I loved a lot of the Iha songs. Take Me Down, The Bells, The Boy, Believe, Go, Blew Away > Widow. why cant you grasp the concept that we hate the song and genuinely see it as one of his worst pieces of work to date? is that so hard to understand?

paranoid
01-17-2010, 06:30 PM
corganist leave the site. you obviously hate it here.

The Jesus
01-17-2010, 06:32 PM
What kind of reaction is it getting on the official board?

paranoid
01-17-2010, 06:33 PM
mixed but for the most part favorable.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 06:35 PM
oh and a lot of them hate the drums. it's pretty universal amongst the fan community that this new drummer sucks balls.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 06:48 PM
from the oboard:

My GF just walked into the living room while I was playing Widow

her: "I bet Corgan's relieved he already made all of his money".

me: "Why?"

her: "Because he wont make any more putting out shit like this."

Corganist
01-17-2010, 06:49 PM
man corganist you will drag yourself through the mud to defend this guy. some of us don't like the song. deal with it.

I don't like the song either. I have no issue with your opinion of the song as far as good/bad/mediocre goes. Think what you want. But this "worst song ever" garbage can't be just flatly stated as fact.

Also, I loved a lot of the Iha songs. Take Me Down, The Bells, The Boy, Believe, Go, Blew Away > Widow.

I can't fathom a world where Take Me Down, The Bells, or Believe can go on the front end of a ">" symbol regardless of what's on the other side. Are you James Iha?

why cant you grasp the concept that we hate the song and genuinely see it as one of his worst pieces of work to date? is that so hard to understand?

Yes it is. He's done so much worse. And it's not like people hated the song when he played it back in the summer. If it was nearly as bad as you want to be making the case for, it should have been despised from word one back in August. The studio treatment wasn't bad enough to take it from "inoffensive, unspectacular live song" to "the nadir of the Corgan catalog." It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and it makes you all look ridiculous to defend it. Just say the song is bad and be done with it.

The Jesus
01-17-2010, 06:58 PM
from the oboard:

My GF just walked into the living room while I was playing Widow

her: "I bet Corgan's relieved he already made all of his money".

me: "Why?"

her: "Because he wont make any more putting out shit like this."


BANNED

redbreegull
01-17-2010, 07:05 PM
This is terrible. One of the worst things released since the reunion.

sppunk
01-17-2010, 07:07 PM
I cannot express how excited I am part of this song sounds like it was produced by Wesley Willis.

Best thing Corgan's done in six years right there.

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 07:09 PM
I don't like the song either. I have no issue with your opinion of the song as far as good/bad/mediocre goes. Think what you want. But this "worst song ever" garbage can't be just flatly stated as fact.



I can't fathom a world where Take Me Down, The Bells, or Believe can go on the front end of a ">" symbol regardless of what's on the other side. Are you James Iha?



Yes it is. He's done so much worse. And it's not like people hated the song when he played it back in the summer. If it was nearly as bad as you want to be making the case for, it should have been despised from word one back in August. The studio treatment wasn't bad enough to take it from "inoffensive, unspectacular live song" to "the nadir of the Corgan catalog." It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and it makes you all look ridiculous to defend it. Just say the song is bad and be done with it.

Everyone likes Blew Away, Believe, The Boy, and Take Me Down. And Said Sadly and Go.

This is a recurring theme with you, Corganist. You are completely disconnected with the ways other people think. But you have deluded yourself into thinking that the way you think is the way most people think.

paranoid
01-17-2010, 07:11 PM
[=Corganist]I don't like the either. I have no issue with your opinion of the song as far as good/bad/mediocre goes. Think what you want. But this "worst song ever" garbage can't be just flatly stated as fact.



Yes it is. He's done so much worse. And it's not like people hated the song when he played it back in the summer. If it was nearly as bad as you want to be making the case for, it should have been despised from word one back in August. The studio treatment wasn't bad enough to take it from "inoffensive, unspectacular live song" to "the nadir of the Corgan catalog." It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and it makes you all look ridiculous to defend it. Just say the song is bad and be done with it.[/QUOTE]

Who flatly stated it as fact? it's an expression as an opinion. And I've hated the song since august. haven't made it through a single live recording of it. There were much much better songs from those performances he could have chosen to record. This should have been thrown out.

I can't fathom a world where Take Me Down, The Bells, or Believe can go on the front end of a ">" symbol regardless of what's on the other side.

Fathom it.

Springbridge
01-17-2010, 07:12 PM
I like the way the guitar sounds and the keyboards are good. I've just never been a huge fan of his random "singles-bait" fakish sounding songs. This song should have just been an instrumental.

samuel redman
01-17-2010, 07:13 PM
Everyone likes Blew Away, Believe, The Boy, and Take Me Down. And Said Sadly and Go.



im probably never going to listen to those songs again

Springbridge
01-17-2010, 07:13 PM
Everyone likes Blew Away, Believe, The Boy, and Take Me Down. And Said Sadly and Go.

This is a recurring theme with you, Corganist. You are completely disconnected with the ways other people think. But you have deluded yourself into thinking that the way you think is the way most people think.

Don't forget "A Night Like This". Great song, even though it's a cover.

samuel redman
01-17-2010, 07:14 PM
james iha sucks

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 07:14 PM
im probably never going to listen to those songs again

Are any of them worse than Widow Make My Mind

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 07:23 PM
said the cocksucker to the straight guy.

uh

what

redbull
01-17-2010, 07:31 PM
uh

what

<d;ljg>

redbull
01-17-2010, 07:32 PM
here's an awesome song
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Eulogy
01-17-2010, 07:32 PM
stop crying, and shut the fuck up.

we knew it was shit since last year. stop acting like it's some big surprise that the song's shit.

who expressed surprise

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 07:34 PM
also i've never heard this song until today

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 07:41 PM
who's crying

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 07:42 PM
man mickyshambles is a bad boarder

Song for a Son has been played twice in my itunes. Widow Wake My Mind once. I don't know if either of those numbers will ever go up.

Sonic Johnny
01-17-2010, 07:45 PM
songs for a songs is songs

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 07:50 PM
i read this as "window make my mind" a few times.

Esty
01-17-2010, 08:00 PM
Now time for things i've known all along and learned from reading this thread.


1. Song is garbage and this is not surprising to me. Not because I hate Bill, but because the song is just a shitfest. Bills decision to go on the cheap and not hire a veteran drummer is now looking like a failure. Knew it would blow up in his face.

2. Paranoid and Gish08 post too fucking much. Shut the fuck up.

3. Corganist is just monte/davin with about a year or two more of education. In montes case, several years more.

If Corgan were to take a giant shit and all of netpho saw it and said, "Thats the worst shit Bill has ever DONE!!!!1" Corganist would measure it, weigh it, smell it, stick his finger in it and taste it. Afterward he'd say, "Nope, Corgan has taken worst shits and let's not forget the shits Iha has done.". Somehow, Davin and monte would show up and it'd be a fight to see who loves Bills shit the most.

Corganist is a stupid fuck. Always has been. Stop fighting him.

4. Song sucks, live with it. Bill has done bad before and i'm sure in 44 songs, he's bound to fuck up. He'll hit a home run or two as well. Stop your bitching because you'll be back to licking his asshole in a month or two. I'm talking to paranoid and gish specifically. Fucking whiners.

Oh, Bill and SP2 have not made a good song since zietshit. Not gossmer, sfos, that rock band song or anything. It's been one giant fuck up after another.

Starla
01-17-2010, 08:14 PM
oh my God this is really really bad...

Starla
01-17-2010, 08:15 PM
this brings back bad memories of the first time I listened to zwan

Catherine Wheel
01-17-2010, 08:22 PM
Truly awful. Definitely has a Zwan vibe.

Order 66
01-17-2010, 08:23 PM
Its a good song but I'm gonna be a little bummed if this is the final version (which I'm sure it is) ... The organ is too dry and prominent, vocals need to be cut back a bit too.

On the plus side I'm glad billy finally is starting to nix rythm guitars. Sounds a lot less muddy this way

paranoid
01-17-2010, 08:26 PM
@Esty

oh look someone echoing the same sentiments gish08 and I have yet says we post too much. you shut the fuck up.

i haven't licked his asshole in about two years, btw.

Jesus Cambodia
01-17-2010, 08:30 PM
You guys are crazy. This song isn't terrible for one, and for another, nothing will ever be as bad as GLOW. Ever. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, you can't surpass the speed of light, and no song will ever be as shitty as glow.

Not an amazing, incredible song. But competent.

Catherine Wheel
01-17-2010, 08:33 PM
This is actually worse than the sappiest thing James Iha wrote under the Pumpkins name. That's pretty bad.

Order 66
01-17-2010, 08:51 PM
I think the sappiness is canceled out by SFAS before it, which is arguably the most depressing song since adore. Its probably not going to be like Mary star where you have five straight CMON GET HAPPY songs in a row

markpregen
01-17-2010, 08:53 PM
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Catherine Wheel
01-17-2010, 09:02 PM
The song kind of sounds like a cross between The Cars and Rush. And not even good Rush like Signals or Grace Under Pressure. Anything before that.

slunken
01-17-2010, 09:08 PM
"accept the grace, the moment you are in" :hurl:

Gish08
01-17-2010, 09:13 PM
2. Paranoid and Gish08 post too fucking much. Shut the fuck up.

Get fucked.

Esty
01-17-2010, 09:25 PM
@Esty

oh look someone echoing the same sentiments gish08 and I have yet says we post too much. you shut the fuck up.

I'm not going to make 20+ post in one thread about the fucking song. Stop your bitching.

Mayfuck
01-17-2010, 09:50 PM
Good song.

slunken
01-17-2010, 10:17 PM
Bush had some good songs.

SPLATTER
01-17-2010, 10:45 PM
does song for a son and WMM even make the final cut on 16 Stone?

dustrock
01-17-2010, 10:56 PM
I mean, think about MSOTS and tell me which tracks on it are worse than Widow.

Probably "Yeah" and that's about it.


Oh shit, here's my brilliant summary from the O-board:

Billy has always worked best with a gun against his head, now that he's got the gun, we're all held hostage.

Caine Walker
01-17-2010, 10:59 PM
speaking of, what has the oboard response been?

duovamp
01-17-2010, 11:01 PM
Having never visited there in my life, I'm going to guess... they fucking love it. I imagine every person there as being Monte.

duovamp
01-17-2010, 11:02 PM
Information Technology.

ravenguy2000
01-17-2010, 11:06 PM
This is the worst Smashing Pumpkins song.

duovamp
01-17-2010, 11:07 PM
Worse than Take Me Down?

ravenguy2000
01-17-2010, 11:12 PM
Take Me Down is fine for what it is. This song has nothing of worth in it. At all.

Eulogy
01-17-2010, 11:14 PM
Having never visited there in my life, I'm going to guess... they fucking love it. I imagine every person there as being Monte.

it's sort of split, actually

which should tell you just how awful this really is.

waltermcphilp
01-17-2010, 11:25 PM
The drumming sounds like it was done by a one armed monkey.

I can't imagine billy even listened to this fucking thing before he released it.


It is so amateurish it's sad.

Musica
01-17-2010, 11:37 PM
A perplexing song. I didn't really mind the A version, but this isn't going down too well.
I agree with you. I like the song from SITS live version. I was wondering why Billy doesn't put more words in the lyric, but I like the song. I say I don't like that producing.

If I remember correctly, many ppl picked up Widow for their fav/good/okay song in the SITS live thread in here, and they don't like studio version. Is this the same thing happened when MSOTS released? I was a bit sad with MSOTS because I felt that passionate rock sound of live version were gone and all turned into pop songs.

I'm wondering for Gish, SD, MCIS, Adore... same reaction was raised from fans?

So, while reading this thread, I have some dry laugh for that some of you say MSOTS is better than this song. I know what you mean. The reason I laugh is we sounds like we almost give up TSP like Billy does us, or our a passing grade for the quality of TSP song has been getting lower than before?

redbreegull
01-17-2010, 11:57 PM
I have to agree, this is the single worst thing he has ever written.

Mablak
01-18-2010, 12:11 AM
I agree with jesus cambodia that GLOW, like a black hole, has a magnitude of suck that cannot be exceeded, but this song is pretty close.

pineapple*soul
01-18-2010, 12:14 AM
I dunno, I'm enjoying it. it's no rock-by-the-numbers like I felt a few of the other recent releases were. There's a bit of imagination to this, a bit of invention. I like the mid-8. I kinda like the intro. It's kooky. :S
But so much of it is just total rubbish, the drums, the lyrics, the ascending bits, the lyrics, the fucking lyrics and the lyrics.

But when I think about it. What I like about this song has nothing to do with what an SP song should be. this is just vapid and soulless. No passion to it at all, and that's a defining characteristic of SP to me, there's always passion.

I am full of meh

pineapple*soul
01-18-2010, 12:17 AM
I'm going to go listen to Adore now, for a week.
Fuck Corganist and his 'misstep' comment earlier in this thread.

Edited for evidence:
You know, I sometimes forget that Netphoria is the Bizarro world of SP fandom where Adore is seen as Billy's creative peak instead of the massive misstep that it really was.

busty sinclaire
01-18-2010, 12:27 AM
I played it for my boyfriend and he asked if it was a new everclear song.

wHATcOLOR
01-18-2010, 12:31 AM
in addition to the hilariously bad part from 1:49 - 1:55 others have rightly pointed out, the fill at 1:06 almost made me spit out my water it's so hilarious

busty sinclaire
01-18-2010, 12:32 AM
has anyone really listened to zwan? zwan is 100x better than this song. this song is borderline easy listening.

TuralyonW3
01-18-2010, 12:35 AM
I'm going to have bad dreams of OH OH OH OH OH OH

waltermcphilp
01-18-2010, 12:41 AM
I am jack's sense of rejectment

28if
01-18-2010, 12:54 AM
this is purely awful

BlissedandGone2
01-18-2010, 01:32 AM
billy what the fuck did you do?

reprise85
01-18-2010, 02:00 AM
has anyone really listened to zwan? zwan is 100x better than this song. this song is borderline easy listening.

yes, i was thinking of how to express this earlier. you got it. it's easy listening, with a touch of really shitty part/fill choices.

xforewarnedx
01-18-2010, 02:07 AM
I agree with you. I like the song from SITS live version. I was wondering why Billy doesn't put more words in the lyric, but I like the song. I say I don't like that producing.

If I remember correctly, many ppl picked up Widow for their fav/good/okay song in the SITS live thread in here, and they don't like studio version. Is this the same thing happened when MSOTS released? I was a bit sad with MSOTS because I felt that passionate rock sound of live version were gone and all turned into pop songs.

I'm wondering for Gish, SD, MCIS, Adore... same reaction was raised from fans?

So, while reading this thread, I have some dry laugh for that some of you say MSOTS is better than this song. I know what you mean. The reason I laugh is we sounds like we almost give up TSP like Billy does us, or our a passing grade for the quality of TSP song has been getting lower than before?

THANK YOU! You took the words out of my mouth. Everyone bitches but when they first heard it, it was oh so good to hear new stuff and even going back and listening to the live version of the song, everyone was cheering it just as much as the next song. I think I heard people sing the OH OH OH parts along with him. I didn't hear anyone booing or saying no that sucks!

Twineball
01-18-2010, 02:13 AM
Not much of a fan of this song.

Cheradenine
01-18-2010, 02:34 AM
Hmm this is the first time I stopped listening half-way through a new Pumpkins song :/

I can see why he's not charging anything for this.

It could do well at the Eurovision Song Contest though: YouTube - The Toppers - Shine (The Netherlands) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te1w81E8L5A)

Cool As Ice Cream
01-18-2010, 02:35 AM
THANK YOU! You took the words out of my mouth. Everyone bitches but when they first heard it, it was oh so good to hear new stuff and even going back and listening to the live version of the song, everyone was cheering it just as much as the next song. I think I heard people sing the OH OH OH parts along with him. I didn't hear anyone booing or saying no that sucks!

these shows only had an audience of 50. obviously everyone there had a monty-level of fandom, and thought everything was awesome. you shouldn't assume that they're a good representation of the sp fanbase or the members of this board. i mean, seriously, singing along to oh oh ohs? did you hug each other after the show?

CrabbMan
01-18-2010, 02:48 AM
There's a lot of serious over-reaction going on here. The oh's worked way better as a live sing-along, and even then I could take a pass on it. There are some real cringeworthy moments in the song, like the ascending bit, obviously, but it's not the end of the world. The drums are fine, and they don't need to be anything spectacular for a song like this. For those who seem absolutely certain that this worst song Billy has ever made, you're embarrassing yourselves with such obvious knee-jerk reaction to your disappointment. Wait a year and read this thread again.
I'm mildly disappointed, but I wasn't impressed by this song live, and didn't think it would get any better in the studio. And I don't think it did. But you know what, I like the production, I like the arrangement. I'm kinda digging the sound Billy is creating with the retro synth. Very Kaleidyscopey. :Skeptical


Also more nice organ work but I'm not sure about the very high-pitched synth sounds in the background of the verses that are kind of uncomfortable to listen to.

I love it! Probably because it reminds me of video game I played 20 years ago (I don't know what, but it's just very familiar).

chris1979
01-18-2010, 03:10 AM
Hmm I don't know... it's a pop song, produced as a pop song. The problem is I was expecting to hear guitar-driven rock music, so it's hard to fill my expectations. I've been listening a lot to the Dinosaur Jr. reunion albums lately and really I have to say compared to that stuff it's probably impossible to impress me at the moment.

aztec litany service
01-18-2010, 03:32 AM
You know, I sometimes forget that Netphoria is the Bizarro world of SP fandom where Adore is seen as Billy's creative peak instead of the massive misstep that it really was.

slight misstep [yet brilliant and awesome anyway]

..

new song is disappointing. not surprised. obviously-unoriginal melody killed it right off the bat and it's kinda getting on my nerves that i can't think of the other songs. the only one that's coming to mind is 'spinning wheel'. everything else about the song sucks of course. yawnfest 2010, come one come all, bring your own anti-depressants.

he can do this kind of crap if he wants, but in every way that matters this is not SP. it should be called sth else.

Morlock
01-18-2010, 03:40 AM
Crapsolutely windbreaking.

Morlock
01-18-2010, 03:45 AM
Seriously, is he trying to appeal to Jessica Simpson fans? I also agree that the drums are pretty bad. They sound horrible in the mix, and I cannot decide whether a "Jimmy-esque" sound would make the flaws stick out even more.

I wouldn't mind if this was good pop. But it isn't.

I like the title of the song, though.

Morlock
01-18-2010, 03:48 AM
Also, Billy's singing. What the fuck?

pumpkins
01-18-2010, 03:50 AM
It's the best song ever!

Pop Tart
01-18-2010, 03:58 AM
what a piece of shit
Dear mother of god, this is worse than I could have ever imagined.
Just. Fuck. Ruined my night.
Corgan can go to hell.
....a chore to listen to.
lowering the bar.
It could do well at the Eurovision Song Contest though.

The best part of this experience was reading the comments while I was downloading the song which - ironically - lowered my expectations so completely that I expected something much, much worse.

However, I will play school teacher and say: Not Billy's best work. FAIL!

sniffingchimp
01-18-2010, 04:49 AM
Pretty poor, but definitely not his worst. Baby Lets Rock comes to mind in terms of superlative gayness.

cork_soaker
01-18-2010, 05:02 AM
sounds like spring!

StaleIncense
01-18-2010, 05:19 AM
(my useless irritating negative opinion, that I have to expose, and that's the only place where I know I can speak freely :banging:)

I like song for a son, and all the other song mentioned in this tread, but this song really is the worse song I've ever listend to.
boring, silly, plain, dull, featureless, without musical relevance nor inspiration, with chords and musical structure already exploited by every plastic pop bands that clones easy melodies to make money, but with a worse production and a dumb mood, without interesting ideas, and with lyrics that don't even remotely try to be interesting for the listener.
It has nothing to do with the name smashing pumpkins, it has nothing to do with psychedelic, rock, alternative or whatever word you want to use to label music made with some remotely artistic purposes.
song on msots were at least musically interesting (and with a Drummer)

I thought Corgan wanted to make some big musical statement with Teargarden, but this song could just be a mediocre tinted windows b-side
(basically a shitty waste of time for me).
but I can understand if someone likes the song as it's not bad per se and, at least, is very very catchy

I'll wait for song #3

sniffingchimp
01-18-2010, 05:32 AM
I'll wait for song #3

I have a feeling this is going to be a running theme. Waiting for greatness. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting.

Cheradenine
01-18-2010, 05:34 AM
Godot.

sniffingchimp
01-18-2010, 06:06 AM
:)

rolmos
01-18-2010, 07:38 AM
Wow, I haven't listened to the song yet, and probably wont, after reading through this thread.

Eulogy
01-18-2010, 07:50 AM
For those who seem absolutely certain that this worst song Billy has ever made, you're embarrassing yourselves with such obvious knee-jerk reaction to your disappointment. Wait a year and read this thread again.
]

What's worse?

slunken
01-18-2010, 08:03 AM
I thought Corgan wanted to make some big musical statement with Teargarden, but this song could just be a mediocre tinted windows b-side 3

you may be on to something here...

fuzzyroes
01-18-2010, 08:07 AM
Hmm I don't know... it's a pop song, produced as a pop song. The problem is I was expecting to hear guitar-driven rock music, so it's hard to fill my expectations. I've been listening a lot to the Dinosaur Jr. reunion albums lately and really I have to say compared to that stuff it's probably impossible to impress me at the moment.

No doubt, Dinosaur Jrs probably the only 90's band whos new stuff is just as rad if not better than there old stuff.

slunken
01-18-2010, 08:07 AM
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb14/slunken_2007/l_42e698f505b24a069cee790518df9944.jpg

The Jesus
01-18-2010, 08:10 AM
Corgan has destroyed that fella's soul.

sniffingchimp
01-18-2010, 08:13 AM
Well, 4 hours later and havent even considered listening to the song again, which, when it comes to Pumpkins material, speaks for itself. Ugh.

KManXC
01-18-2010, 08:34 AM
I'm going to grab the fireman's ax that happens to be available in the stairwell I am running up and swing it into the chest of that song. The force of the blow will also knock SFAS down to its death as well.

Pizza Club
01-18-2010, 08:39 AM
I'm going to grab the fireman's ax that happens to be available in the stairwell I am running up and swing it into the chest of that song. The force of the blow will also knock SFAS down to its death as well.

That's was the only awesome part about that episode.

Corganist
01-18-2010, 09:44 AM
Everyone likes Blew Away, Believe, The Boy, and Take Me Down. And Said Sadly and Go.

Blew Away, sure. The Boy and Go, maybe. But you can't possibly sit here and tell me with a straight face that Take Me Down and Believe are somehow universally liked by the entire fanbase and that they aren't considered among the worst songs to be put out under the SP name. I know it's considered cute and funny around here to exalt James Iha in the name of spiting Billy, but really now, get real.

This is a recurring theme with you, Corganist. You are completely disconnected with the ways other people think. But you have deluded yourself into thinking that the way you think is the way most people think.

I think I have a pretty good idea most of time of which of my SP opinions are widely held here and which aren't. For instance, I'm of the opinion that Adore is by far SP's worst album, that 25-30 percent of it is utterly terrible, and that it hasn't aged well at all. I realize that this is a controversial opinion here, and I try not to have any illusions that anyone here will agree...so I don't get all pissy about it when someone bitches at me for it.

But I have been around here long enough to know when people are just blowing smoke. I know that before today, almost no one would bend over backwards to defend some of the songs I've seen defended in this thread. And it's not even in an honest "well, I don't think that song is bad" kind of way. Instead, it's "what the hell are you talking about? Because You Are and Take Me Down are great and universally loved songs!" dishonest hyperbolic bullshit. I just get sick of the sliding standards and shifting arguments that the Corgan-haters on this board employ to tell us all why the latest move he made is always the worst one yet and that this is finally going to be the straw that breaks his career. It comes off as less than objective when songs that sucked yesterday are suddenly great today in order to preserve this idiotic "worst song ever" temper tantrum.

But like I said before, even I'm not crazy about this song. But I just don't believe for one second that anyone here thinks it's the worst song Billy's ever done or the worst song put out under the SP name. The fact of the matter is that this was always going to be the "worst SP track ever" to the people saying that unless Billy pulled some miracle out of his hat.

Caine Walker
01-18-2010, 09:46 AM
i definitely think that this is the worst song ever put out under the SP name. sorry, corganist. you lose.

augustreverie
01-18-2010, 09:46 AM
who enjoys a song like this.

Hitler on SSRI's :rofl:

Caine Walker
01-18-2010, 09:48 AM
uh... yeah.


:erm:

Eulogy
01-18-2010, 09:49 AM
Blew Away, sure. The Boy and Go, maybe. But you can't possibly sit here and tell me with a straight face that Take Me Down and Believe are somehow universally liked by the entire fanbase and that they aren't considered among the worst songs to be put out under the SP name. I know it's considered cute and funny around here to exalt James Iha in the name of spiting Billy, but really now, get real.



I think I have a pretty good idea most of time of which of my SP opinions are widely held here and which aren't. For instance, I'm of the opinion that Adore is by far SP's worst album, that 25-30 percent of it is utterly terrible, and that it hasn't aged well at all. I realize that this is a controversial opinion here, and I try not to have any illusions that anyone here will agree...so I don't get all pissy about it when someone bitches at me for it.

But I have been around here long enough to know when people are just blowing smoke. I know that before today, almost no one would bend over backwards to defend some of the songs I've seen defended in this thread. And it's not even in an honest "well, I don't think that song is bad" kind of way. Instead, it's "what the hell are you talking about? Because You Are and Take Me Down are great and universally loved songs!" dishonest hyperbolic bullshit. I just get sick of the sliding standards and shifting arguments that the Corgan-haters on this board employ to tell us all why the latest move he made is always the worst one yet and that this is finally going to be the straw that breaks his career. It comes off as less than objective when songs that sucked yesterday are suddenly great today in order to preserve this idiotic "worst song ever" temper tantrum.

But like I said before, even I'm not crazy about this song. But I just don't believe for one second that anyone here thinks it's the worst song Billy's ever done or the worst song put out under the SP name. The fact of the matter is that this was always going to be the "worst SP track ever" to the people saying that unless Billy pulled some miracle out of his hat.

I really like Believe, and Take Me Down has grown on me over the years. Because You Are is shit (BUT IT WAS A B-SIDE), but I'd rather listen to that right now than WWMM. The Bells is probably as bad, but in a boring "this song goes nowhere and is boring and lame" way, which to me is less offensive than whatever is going on with this song.

There are Pumpkins songs that a lot of people don't like. I'm not a fan of... I dunno, Death From Above or Pomp And Circumstances. Are they as bad as this song? No.

Just get over it, Corganist. If you're always right and everyone else is always wrong, maybe you need to consider that maybe, just maybe, it's usually the other way around.

Eulogy
01-18-2010, 09:51 AM
and fuck, at least the piano on The Bells sounds pretty and it's only 2:19. I think it wins, ultimately.

Caine Walker
01-18-2010, 09:52 AM
i wanna know what HOB thinks of this song. i like that guy.

Eulogy
01-18-2010, 09:53 AM
hm. even some interesting vocal melodies and some nice strings in the second half of The Bells.

Honestly, it shits all over Widow Wake My Mind, now that I've listened to it for the first time in three years.

TuralyonW3
01-18-2010, 09:55 AM
again it comes down to redeeming qualities. I think this is the first SP/Iha/Solo/Zwan song I've heard (and I'm pretty sure i've heard ALL of them) that doesn't have any.

Corganist
01-18-2010, 09:59 AM
Whatever. I still maintain that if the song is really half as bad as you guys say, we would have known about it before now. We've had live recordings for months and months now, and if anyone thought it was the worst song Billy's ever written, no one has been saying so. Lord knows Billy has ruined some perfectly decent songs in the studio before, but a song that fails on every conceivable level the way you guys are claiming is something everyone should have seen coming the very first time anyone heard it. This version isn't enough of a departure from the live version to be getting this much more of a negative reaction.

Eulogy
01-18-2010, 10:00 AM
Whatever. I still maintain that if the song is really half as bad as you guys say, we would have known about it before now. We've had live recordings for months and months now, and if anyone thought it was the worst song Billy's ever written, no one was saying so then. Lord knows Billy has ruined some perfectly decent songs in the studio before, but a song that fails on every conceivable level the way you guys are claiming is something everyone should have seen coming the very first time anyone heard it.

well i didn't hear it until yesterday

so. you can maintain whatever you like.

Caine Walker
01-18-2010, 10:02 AM
yeah, this song definitely fails on <i>every</i> conceivable level.

slunken
01-18-2010, 10:06 AM
For the record i've disliked Widow from day 1. Also nobody seems to mention Joy in the worst song canon.

Cheradenine
01-18-2010, 10:07 AM
Hmm, well I did download that atrocious benefit concert where they played all the new songs including this one. So my hopes were extremely low. But I thought I was in the minority here. I expected more of Song for a Son though.

Eulogy
01-18-2010, 10:07 AM
Also nobody seems to mention Joy in the worst song canon.

What's Joy?

slunken
01-18-2010, 10:08 AM
i feel joy i feel just like a boy http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/song.html?song_id=889&song_type=-1

also, cheradenine i think you're mistaken

Caine Walker
01-18-2010, 10:09 AM
an adore outtake, i believe.

edit: er... wait, was joy a machina outtake? i can't remember. and yes, that was pretty bad. but it was never brought to life as a "release".

wounded
01-18-2010, 10:11 AM
what i find strange is when they did this spirits tour billy acted like the songs they played on there were turd songs and weren't even the best. so why release those first....

i'm going to go ahead and say he definitely doesn't have 44 songs written.

slunken
01-18-2010, 10:11 AM
but it was never brought to life as a "release".

yea...true