wasn't the joker rather anarchistic? which is fairly opposite socialism?

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg219/JonasSecrets/post%202/ih8ajojpg.png

whore of obama

anarchism is actually the true goal of marxism, but whatever. what are you talking about

what are you talking about college lad

i don't really know much about marxism but the idea of it having a goal seems weird

He is the joker because he has fooled the people with his socialist agenda.

how does fooling a country with a socialist agenda make one The Joker?

i don't really know much about marxism but the idea of it having a goal seems weird

The entire concept of communism is based on the idea that history works through these big stages of economic development, and that at the "end of history" true communism will prevail and part of that is having no government.

based on that i think i'd like to recant my position that i don't really know much about marxism

why does everyone equate marxism, communism and socialism all the time

anarchism is actually the true goal of marxism, but whatever. what are you talking about

Marx explains in The German Ideology that society was created because man figured out that the division of labor would maximize his productivity. He goes on to say that he'd love to live in a world that is so productive that one day he could be a butcher for an hour, a lumberjack for an hour, and a chef for an hour as he sees necessary, but none of this is anarchy. It's freedom obtained through truly optimizing the productivity of society, a group so productive that you can do whatever jobs you want, and because you'll be doing the jobs you want you'll do them better since you won't be alienated from what you're doing. If you want a cow to eat, you'll do your own butchering, otherwise the butcher does his work for other people and doesn't really care that much about the quality of his labor so much as it's better than the next butcher so he can profit from it.

wasn't the joker rather anarchistic? which is fairly opposite socialism?

The Joker wasn't really a militant anarchist so much as just a complete madman. If the world were full of chaos he'd impose order, and if the world were structured he'd tear it down. His purpose is to be just the opposite of Batman- an intelligent, serious, put-together moral absolutist with a very strong sense of justice. The Joker just does what makes him laugh, operating for himself without a care in the world, again, the opposite of Batman, whose life is miserable so that he can care for others.

why does everyone equate marxism, communism and socialism all the time

Because a lot of people have no clue what the hell they're talking about, like this:

The entire concept of communism is based on the idea that history works through these big stages of economic development, and that at the "end of history" true communism will prevail and part of that is having no government.

no, redbreegull is right. at its core, anarchy just means absence of government. that is definitely part of original marxist theory.

however, not all present forms of communism see it that way afaik

why does everyone equate marxism, communism and socialism all the time

Because by definition, they can all be the same thing. Marxism and communism are different terms for the exact same thing. Socialism is a little broader because there were socialists that predated Marx, but Marx is the father of "scientific socialism", which is Marxism. There are a shit ton of terms for it, we argued about it in another thread recently. I guess these days when someone says communism, Stalinism comes to mind and when one says socialism, Fabianism comes to mind...

Marx explains in The German Ideology that society was created because man figured out that the division of labor would maximize his productivity. He goes on to say that he'd love to live in a world that is so productive that one day he could be a butcher for an hour, a lumberjack for an hour, and a chef for an hour as he sees necessary, but none of this is anarchy. It's freedom obtained through truly optimizing the productivity of society, a group so productive that you can do whatever jobs you want, and because you'll be doing the jobs you want you'll do them better since you won't be alienated from what you're doing. If you want a cow to eat, you'll do your own butchering, otherwise the butcher does his work for other people and doesn't really care that much about the quality of his labor so much as it's better than the next butcher so he can profit from it.

Like publius clodius said, anarchism is a key part of Marxism. Anarchism to Marx (and to most anarchists) is not a state without authority, but a state where all authority is agreed upon and the product of volunteerism. Marx was HEAVILY influenced by Proudhon.

Marx was influenced by Hegel, and Hegel by Fichte. You're pretty out of your element here, boys.

Marx was influenced by Hegel, and Hegel by Fichte. You're pretty out of your element here, boys.

yeah, ok. you didn't think marxism had anything to do with anarchism even though it is one of the main elements of it, but you clearly know more than us.

When you start quoting Feurbach, then we'll talk, chief. :)

Reading Marx > Reading a Wikipedia article on Marx

Marx was influenced by Hegel, and Hegel by Fichte. You're pretty out of your element here, boys.

Also, Marx was directly influenced by Feurbach, who revised Hegel's model of the dialectic. Marx does not agree with Hegel on very much.

Also, Marx was directly influenced by Feurbach, who revised Hegel's model of the dialectic. Marx does not agree with Hegel on very much.

I love being two steps ahead of you.

Beat me to it.

I'm not reading wikipedia though, this is all knowledge stored in my head.

Also I never said they agreed, he built off of Hegel, thus Hegel was an influence. I'll start directly quoting some Marx/Engels if you want me to really demonstrate how wrong you are.

I mean he doesn't agree with Feurbach on much either... He doesn't consider him a materialist. So basically if you knew what you were talking about you would've never made that assertion about Hegel.

I mean he doesn't agree with Feurbach on much either... He doesn't consider him a materialist. So basically if you knew what you were talking about you would've never made that assertion about Hegel.

Dude, you didn't think anarchism was a part of Marxism. I don't understand how being able to quote Marx refutes the fact that you held a misunderstanding about his ideology. Feurbach is still much more on the same page as Marx than Hegel.

communism and marxism are not the same exact thing. there are many branches of communism, marxism is just the most influential one.

They're both influences though. 100% agreement is not the only criterion for influence.

Also, make me laugh by explaining how anarchy is Marxism.

duovamp, seriously, do you read your posts

Let's face it, when you were in high school you probably heard someone say that Marx was an anarchist and basically never took the time to learn the truth. So now you're in a debate with someone who actually knows Marx's material, who can expose your ignorance, and thus you're drowning publicly.

in duovamp's head, if something is a part of something, it magically becomes the same as the whole

apart from your lame insults and their factual inaccuracy, your arguments aren't logically sound. you wouldn't need to know anything about marxism to see how you made a mistake up there

You should just leave this thread, because you haven't added anything of use.

this thread is more or less a joke, not your stage to boast about your very basic knowledge of marx (oooooo influenced by feuerbach)

Seriously if anyone here is saying anarchy has anything to do with "A government that-" just stop, because already you're wrong.

what an intelligent young lad! his brilliancy is overwhelming me! please just never stop talking so we can all bathe in your rays of intelligence

Marx was 100% wrong about "the bright future of communism", but he had some interesting things to say about capitalism in that it causes alienation of an individual from his labor, from his fellow man, from quality and from nature.

Bill Maher: New Rule: Not Everything in America Has to Make a Profit (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/new-rule-not-everything-i_b_244050.html)

He is the joker because he has fooled the people with his socialist agenda.

If you think Obama is a socialist, you simply aren't informed. Are you talking about universal healthcare?

Sweden has an infant mortality rate of 3.2 per 1,000 live births and also boats universal healthcare. Compare this to the USA's 6.3 per 1,000.

If conservatives get to call universal health care "socialized medicine," I get to call private health care "soulless vampires making money off human pain." The problem with President Obama's health care plan isn't socialism, it's capitalism.

can we just get back to the point that the obama joker socialism poster doesn't really make any sense

Let's face it, when you were in high school you probably heard someone say that Marx was an anarchist and basically never took the time to learn the truth. So now you're in a debate with someone who actually knows Marx's material, who can expose your ignorance, and thus you're drowning publicly.

Usually I like you but you are being a big fucking prick in this thread. You are not correct, and acting like you are the only one who has ever read Marx will not vindicate a falsehood.

communism and marxism are not the same exact thing. there are many branches of communism, marxism is just the most influential one.

No dude, Marxism and communism are the same thing. They are different terms for the ideology of Marx. You are confusing communism for socialism which has broader application.

Seriously if anyone here is saying anarchy has anything to do with "A government that-" just stop, because already you're wrong.

Anarchism DOES NOT equate to anarchy, and forgive me if I used to terms too liberally earlier. There is leadership in anarchism, but no authority that is not agreed upon. It is "total democracy" if you will. The idea is that democracy becomes habit and does not need to be enforced. Marx was an anarchist in the way that his model of the dialectic ends in a form of anarchism. No more government, only totally consensual leadership.

No dude, Marxism and communism are the same thing. They are different terms for the ideology of Marx. You are confusing communism for socialism which has broader application.


that was (to a limited degree) true when marxism was "new". nowadays it would be a brusque mistake to simply dismiss all ideologies that call themselves communist but not marxist. (also marx didnt even coin the term)

all influential ideas start out as a dense singularity, but become much broader over time. there's no need to equate the product with the origin.
it's like rock'n'roll man. of course smashing pumpkins is rock. does that make them the same as bill haley?

and yes, i'm trying to simplify this thread back to its ridiculous start

If you think Obama is a socialist, you simply aren't informed. Are you talking about universal healthcare?

Sweden has an infant mortality rate of 3.2 per 1,000 live births and also boats universal healthcare. Compare this to the USA's 6.3 per 1,000.

I wouldn't really call Obama a socialist either, but the welfare state (which he believes in, as do most "liberals"), is John Stuart Mill's idea... and you know, Mill led directly to the Fabian socialists. All modern liberalism has elements of socialism in it, it is inevitable.

I think I know the problem here.

We started comparing two things, Marxism and anarchy/anarchism (not sure which we intended). That means we had to define two terms. We picked the harder of the two to define, and couldn't agree on a definition. Instead we should've clarified anarchy/anarchism and started from there.

that was (to a limited degree) true when marxism was "new". nowadays it would be a brusque mistake to simply dismiss all ideologies that call themselves communist but not marxist. (also marx didnt even coin the term)

all influential ideas start out as a dense singularity, but become much broader over time. there's no need to equate the product with the origin.
it's like rock'n'roll man. of course smashing pumpkins is rock. does that make them the same as bill haley?

and yes, i'm trying to simplify this thread back to its ridiculous start

I see what you mean, but what happened in Russia or China is not really communism. It was basically a big charade. By definition those countries could not have become communist because they were not yet in the capitalistic phase of the dialectic... they were just agrarian backwards feudal societies basically.

i wasn't talking about russia or china. in fact i would call those initial state idelogies marxist

when you take a look at stuff like anarchist communism however...

has bill maher officially renounced libertarianism?

has bill maher officially renounced libertarianism?

bill maher was never a libertarian

All the more reason to renounce it.

boy there's a lot of college wankery in this thread

Seriously if anyone here is saying anarchy has anything to do with "A government that-" just stop, because already you're wrong.

Uh, you were the first person to use the word "anarchy" in this thread, if you go reread it.

Also redbreegull is right. Your performance in this thread has been pretty embarassing duo. Myth help anyone?

it's like the liberal arts douchebag patrol shit all over this thread

This is a thread about Marx... who the fuck else would know anything about that shit, idiot? It's like going to soccer game and commenting on how many of the players are European.

http://imgur.com/VJzZW.jpg

what a pretty picture

so many of you are just outhinking this.

Something about the poster cuts through to Obama's soul. It was lifted from the Time mag cover shot, so, that's a decent start and when you throw in the fact he's a schill bootlicker like the rest of them, it's a powerful image.


anybody who defends Obama is just a fool. You'll figure it out soon enough I guess, but, do you really think a 2-year junior Senator with a shady past is really calling the fucking shots? He's an actor and he's essentially been outed and now only the kool-aid drinkers are left to showcase their stupidity and ignorance.

On a related note:

Say what you want about Alex Jones; agree if you dare, disagree if you must, but this video is genius propaganda...

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZGFw3hY20lM&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZGFw3hY20lM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

mute ^

so many of you are just outhinking this.

Something about the poster cuts through to Obama's soul. It was lifted from the Time mag cover shot, so, that's a decent start and when you throw in the fact he's a schill bootlicker like the rest of them, it's a powerful image.


anybody who defends Obama is just a fool. You'll figure it out soon enough I guess, but, do you really think a 2-year junior Senator with a shady past is really calling the fucking shots? He's an actor and he's essentially been outed and now only the kool-aid drinkers are left to showcase their stupidity and ignorance.

On a related note:

Say what you want about Alex Jones; agree if you dare, disagree if you must, but this video is genius propaganda...

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZGFw3hY20lM&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZGFw3hY20lM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

:rofl: People like you exist? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Something about the poster cuts through to Obama's soul. :erm:


He's an actor and he's essentially been outed and now only the kool-aid drinkers are left to showcase their stupidity and ignorance.
I can only assume the irony of this statement is lost on you.

Can you say "batshit insane?"

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/rage/images/050401/koolaidman.jpg

This is a thread about Marx... who the fuck else would know anything about that shit, idiot? It's like going to soccer game and commenting on how many of the players are European.

it's funny because you don't realize how little it matters

boy there's a lot of college wankery in this thread

yeah man, fucking knowing shit, that's for kids.

do you know anything useful

anything at all?

can you program a server?
can you maintain a database?

because i'm sure prospective employers will be <i>real</i> interested in your knowledge of marxism

do you know anything useful

In case no one ever told you, education is important and the more you know about different things, the more open your mind becomes and the more enlightened you are.

uh huh

So the only things worth knowing are things that allow you to make money?

the only things worth paying money to learn are things that will make you money

but enjoy shelling out thousands of dollars on stuff you can learn in your spare time and won't help your post-college job skills one iota

the only things worth paying money to learn are things that will make you money

but enjoy shelling out thousands of dollars on stuff you can learn in your spare time and won't help your post-college job skills one iota

You're an idiot, and thankfully my college education has been free thus far based on my staggering intelligence.

yeah man, fucking knowing shit, that's for kids.
i think the main criticism is against people who feel like they have to bring up what they've learned in college all the time without a good reason

pluis inappropriate delusions of intellectual grandeur

see duovamp

at least i am critical of that, trotski is still being a meathead here

Trots is becoming more like Nimrod every day.

he's bitter because he thinks he wasted money and time on a liberal arts degree without doing one college chick

do you know anything useful

anything at all?

can you program a server?
can you maintain a database?

because i'm sure prospective employers will be <i>real</i> interested in your knowledge of marxism

"All knowledge is precious whether or not it serves the slightest human use."

you still aren't getting the fact that you can learn this on your own time for free

You're an idiot, and thankfully my college education has been free thus far based on my staggering intelligence.

so you're just wasting time then

so you're just wasting time then

You're a philistine. Go troll elsewhere. I have never taken a class that does not count towards my degree (you know, the thing you ACTUALLY need to get a job).

um actually having a degree isn't enough, especially when it's a liberal arts degree

i suggest you do some research about real life before you talk out of your ass

also since you seem not to be aware i have a BA in History

Knowing about football or baseball or basketball isn't really the most valuable thing to an employer, but you still argue about it.


This is more of a hobby than a career. So kindly shut the fuck up.

i'm not even talking to you but you are a wanker

http://hbmortgageoracle.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/metrolink-train-wreck.jpg

You're a philistine.

</a>

by the way

omg at the related threads http://forums.netphoria.org/politics-forum/134759-barack-obama-thread.html

I think that sppunk's a good man, but I've learned that his sports and political predictions are not to be trusted.

do you know anything useful

anything at all?

can you program a server?
can you maintain a database?

because i'm sure prospective employers will be <i>real</i> interested in your knowledge of marxism

weren't you a history major? i'm sure corporations are real interested in your opinions on the civil war

he's bitter because he thinks he wasted money and time on a liberal arts degree without doing one college chick

no a fat chick gave him a pity fuck once

you still aren't getting the fact that you can learn this on your own time for free

You get way more out of taking a class than just doing all the reading on your own. If you're going to argue with me on that I really just don't know what else to say to you.

I accept that you're a pretty intelligent fellow, and I appreciate it when you bring your POV into the discussion (especially when it's supplemented by your knowledge of history), but lately you've been being really stupid, annoying, and contrary just for the sake of it.

Seriously chill the fuck out dude. You're turning into another bitter fat old dude ie. Nimrod.

so trots is a miserable shithead, cool

weren't you a history major? i'm sure corporations are real interested in your opinions on the civil war

way to go genius

real gotcha moment there you fucking loser

also since you seem not to be aware i have a BA in History

you really showed me you dumb shitstain

also i like your "if i repeat a lie enough people will believe it" strategy.

so trots is a miserable shithead, cool

you'd certainly know best yourself being dean of miserable shithead university

hnibos is a dean ?

You get way more out of taking a class than just doing all the reading on your own.

but really nothing in the long run unless you plan on being a student for a career

i'm just warning you both, i see a couple of smug little fuckheads that are going to graduate with great gpas and a liberal arts degree and expect that's all you need

duo's a douchebag and says he's going to law school so he'll fit right in, you know, being an utter douchebag and all

i'm happy i'm not going to law school.

Man I just want to stay in school as long as I can and then try to get a job that requires as little work as possible. I'm not expecting to graduate with a BA in English and have employers lining up to hire me. I just want to learn as much as possible about the things I'm interested in before having to worry about having enough money and shit. Stop judging y0.

Also I don't see how striving to be as knowledgeable and intelligent as possible is ever a bad thing, regardless of... anything. So shove off!

it's not but you're not going to find that job miraculously because you know stuff about faulkner.

so maybe stop being smug?

but whatever, i didn't listen to people telling me the same shit at the time either

i'm happy i'm not going to law school.

my friend is in law school right now, sounds like a special place in hell

it's not but you're not going to find that job miraculously because you know stuff about faulkner.

so maybe stop being smug?

but whatever, i didn't listen to people telling me the same shit at the time either

Yeah, I mean, I get where you're coming from. My motivations for being in school and studying Marx and Philosophy and whatnot are not to get a good job with my degree, they are to become smarter and more knowledgeable. You are what you have learned after all.

that doesn't make much sense to me at all

unless you're going to see it through to a doctorate

trots you're being kinda like dean koontz in this thread.

maybe i'm not that well versed on the subject since everyone in my family got or is getting JDs, but a liberal arts degree doesn't have to be a death sentence.

no it pretty much is a massive waste of time and money

i'm lucky enough to not be paying for my graduate degree which will have some actual practical job training but otherwise if i were faced with either trying to get a job with my social science degree or going into debt for post-grad i'd be pretty fucked either way

I don't consider a formal education in an area that interests somebody deeply to be a waste of anything. Getting to learn about what you want is one of the greatest joys life offers tbh.

yeah that's what you say now

then once you have to live in the real world you might change your tune

but you probably won't since you are a wanker

no it pretty much is a massive waste of time and money



well maybe you guys should have gone to better schools!!!

but srsly, you're really just paying for a piece of paper... and i suppose "knowledge" or whatever. but that piece of paper can (and should) end up being pretty helpful.

there are more people with bachelors degrees than ever before so no, it's not very helpful

even if it proves to be helpful down the road it's still not worth the investment to get a BA when you could be doing something like engineering, IT*, or architecture...anything with a directly related professional career. and <i>especially</I> since you can minor in whatever BA program you want and still intellectually wank yourself to high heaven.

again if you're taking a BA and not planning on seeing it through to at the very least a masters/law school/teaching then you are absolutely wasting time and money.



























































*information technology

oh and by the way, they aren't even really interested in BAs for teaching anymore. it's all about math & science. just to show how little a BA is worth out there

you know what trots half of them here it doesn't even matter how much time and money they're blowing because they're connected and can get a job wherever once they're done because they'll know somebody who knows somebody and that will be that

oh and by the way, they aren't even really interested in BAs for teaching anymore. it's all about math & science. just to show how little a BA is worth out there

I've not heard that. The program I plan on applying to for teaching takes applications from people with any degree. I feel like an English degree would help if I wanna teach high school English.

but i suppose i don't fit the criteria we're discussing because i'm going to law school or becoming a teacher. or maybe seeing if i can score a sweet publishing job or something. bleh.

you know what trots half of them here it doesn't even matter how much time and money they're blowing because they're connected and can get a job wherever once they're done because they'll know somebody who knows somebody and that will be that

yeah probably

I've not heard that. The program I plan on applying to for teaching takes applications from people with any degree.

that doesn't mean they'll hire you

they have plenty of english teachers

also teaching sucks

but i did sub teaching for about a year and i met a bunch of people in auxiliary positions (assistant gym coach, computer lab teacher, etc) that had BAs and a teaching certificate and they would consistently get passed over for science/education/math degree holders with a teaching certificate

this is also texas where we've been doing the test score thing for a few decades now so i dunno if its different elsewhere

but yes we're really talking about 28if and the "i'm taking a ba because i like it and i'm just going to get an easy job when i graduate lol" aesthetic

but you know what else is shitty, that by the time that fag graduates the recession will be over

also i am a bitter lunatic

that doesn't mean they'll hire you

they have plenty of english teachers

also teaching sucks

no it doesn't. but i'm in a better position than i would be without it, yeah?

i dunno. i'm only getting a BA and i'm fairly sure i'll be able to make a living partially because of it.

but yes we're really talking about 28if and the "i'm taking a ba because i like it and i'm just going to get an easy job when i graduate lol" aesthetic

but you know what else is shitty, that by the time that fag graduates the recession will be over

yeah i know what you're saying. guh.

no it doesn't. but i'm in a better position than i would be without it, yeah?

i dunno. i'm only getting a BA and i'm fairly sure i'll be able to make a living partially because of it.

you're getting a teaching certificate, that qualifies as more education

all a BA comes out to mean is "you need more education"

and i'm not borrowing any more goddamn money

you're getting a teaching certificate, that qualifies as more education

all a BA comes out to mean is "you need more education"

the program i'm applying to also gives me a masters degree. and i would get paid while doing it.

man i should start working on that app soon. and studying for the lsat. fuck.

i just wanna stay in college FOREVER!!!!

Trots you are completely wrong about them not wanting teachers with BAs. There is a severe teacher shortage and nationwide the criteria keep getting lowered, not raised.

Also, Trots is going to be one of those unreasonable parents that forces his kid to get a degree in something he doesn't like for the money.

but yes we're really talking about 28if and the "i'm taking a ba because i like it and i'm just going to get an easy job when i graduate lol" aesthetic

but you know what else is shitty, that by the time that fag graduates the recession will be over

Dude I don't want to be an engineer or an architect. I want to read a lot of books and learn about political philosophy. So the plan is to get a BA right now and then see what I want to do after that. I don't need to be making lawyer/engineer/architect money, money is not that important to me. I'm sure I'll work something out after I graduate, probably teaching (something I REALLY like btw.) It's becoming more obvious with every post in this thread that you're just bitter YOU didn't get anywhere with your BA. Chill out.

Besides the benefits of a BA are much more than just the piece of paper you get when you graduate. Just going through the program at a good school and applying yourself greatly improves your thinking abilities, not to mention the knowledge you gain.

Trots you are completely wrong about them not wanting teachers with BAs. There is a severe teacher shortage and nationwide the criteria keep getting lowered, not raised.

Also this.

oh man i kinda shit the bed on this thing

Fellows will teach in science, math, Spanish, Chinese, and special education classrooms – some of the greatest areas of need in the district.

i knew it was too good to be true.

my friend is in law school right now, sounds like a special place in hell

A friend of mine dropped out of law school for essentially that reason.

I'm going into history, too...gag. I wish I was good at a subject that actually had a future with money involved in it.

let's just all recognize that Trots is going off on people for getting useless liberal arts degrees because the real world won't pay them for them while he has a history degree

maybe ben stiller is hiring in that museum you fat worthless piece of shit

trots you're being kinda like dean koontz in this thread
trots is a dean?

I feel like an English degree would help if I wanna teach high school English.
what does that mean? here, you must have some kind of degree if you want to teach english

do they just let anyone be teachers in america or what

let's just all recognize that Trots is going off on people for getting useless liberal arts degrees because the real world won't pay them for them while he has a history degree

maybe ben stiller is hiring in that museum you fat worthless piece of shit

looks like you finally cracked

Trots you are completely wrong about them not wanting teachers with BAs. There is a severe teacher shortage and nationwide the criteria keep getting lowered, not raised.

i know people like to say that, but it is generally false.

in Texas:
first of all there are plenty of applicants. they need people, but it's not like they're completely desperate. they still heavily favor people with education/math/science degrees or specialists in special education
secondly, due to budgetary constraints the Austin ISD recently did a hiring freeze and i doubt it's unique nationwide in that regard

what does that mean? here, you must have some kind of degree if you want to teach english

do they just let anyone be teachers in america or what

I was responding to the post trots made about how people with degrees in math/science/etc. are being sought after for teaching jobs. You have to have a degree and a teaching certification to teach in america.

I was responding to the post trots made about how people with degrees in math/science/etc. are being sought after for teaching jobs. You have to have a degree and a teaching certification to teach in america.

In public schools. I get emails all the time for teaching positions at private schools, and I haven't graduated yet.

(lolprivateschools)

My gf graduated with a creative writing major and got her teaching certificate at the same time (the college offered a pretty cool program that tries to guarantee some sort of employment after graduation). So she's subbing while working on her masters so she can be a writer. Basically she's working a job in retail, and substitute teaching at two local districts, while working on her future in a career she wants. I don't think you can tell her that she's wasted a single cent- she's employed currently, can secure a full-time teaching position pretty soon, and can move on to write for a career if she chooses, but mostly she just wants to write.

So basically if you aren't a total moron you can get an education in what you enjoy, and get a job in what you enjoy, all while making enough money to survive, especially fresh out of college. Planning ahead is all you need to make the difference between getting out of college with a bright future or a dead end. ...And you can be happy too.

So basically if you aren't a total moron you can get an education in what you enjoy, and get a job in what you enjoy, all while making enough money to survive
oh man

so how bout those unemployed people

buncha morons if u ask me

Well... in a way....

I think another important point we're (trots) missing here is that it's stupid to make sweeping generalizations like "it's stupid to get a BA because there's nothing to do with it." It all depends on the person in question. Lots of retards get stupid degrees in General Studies or Sociology or Psychology or whatever and end up stuck, but it works out fine for many others. So whatever, this thread is stupid.

In public schools. I get emails all the time for teaching positions at private schools, and I haven't graduated yet.

(lolprivateschools)

yeaahhh

if my high school were hiring in the english department i imagine i'd have a decent shot at getting a job there. but in all fairness, the majority of people who taught me there were good teachers with masters degrees who could have taught at public schools. so maybe i'm wrong about that.

My gf graduated with a creative writing major and got her teaching certificate at the same time (the college offered a pretty cool program that tries to guarantee some sort of employment after graduation). So she's subbing while working on her masters so she can be a writer. Basically she's working a job in retail, and substitute teaching at two local districts, while working on her future in a career she wants. I don't think you can tell her that she's wasted a single cent- she's employed currently, can secure a full-time teaching position pretty soon, and can move on to write for a career if she chooses, but mostly she just wants to write.

she got a teaching certificate, i already said that if you're going to do anything with a liberal arts degree you need more education or a teaching certificate and she's <i>doing both</I>

graduating with a BA by itself is wankery

:the helicopter:

and what on earth do you need a masters degree for to be a writer

I think another important point we're (trots) missing here is that it's stupid to make sweeping generalizations like "it's stupid to get a BA because there's nothing to do with it." It all depends on the person in question.

so enlighten me what is your grand master plan

because if you don't have one you're one of the dumbasses that is going to be stuck

she got a teaching certificate, i already said that if you're going to do anything with a liberal arts degree you need more education or a teaching certificate and she's <i>doing both</I>

graduating with a BA by itself is wankery

:the helicopter:

and what on earth do you need a masters degree for to be a writer

the median starting salary for people who graduate from my school with only a BA and don't get any other education is $55,000. Mid-career (10 years in) median salary is $121,000.

seems pretty alright.

:the helicopter:

too bad i'm going to have to pay them most of it

:the helicopter:

so enlighten me what is your grand master plan

because if you don't have one you're one of the dumbasses that is going to be stuck

Dude if you REALLY want to know: I'm going to finish my BA in the next two years and then either move to Colorado for a year or two to teach skiing/save up some money, go directly into some sort of MAT program to get certified to teach high school, or if I can find some scholarship money maybe go for a masters degree somewhere. Or maybe some sort of community organizing/government position will fall into my lap and I'll work on that. Oh yeah also the peace corps are an option. I'd love to go to Afghanistan and teach, hopefully we will be in the "rebuilding" phase by the time I graduate.

Whatever I end up doing I'd like to spend a couple of years in Colorado somewhere in between because I really love it out there.

So yeah I have some options. I don't have to be worrying about getting stuck with my BA after I graduate at any rate.

nothing falls into your lap

So she's subbing while working on her masters so she can be a writer.

Ah, I see the Writers Guild of North America has raised their entrance standards. No matter, soon she will be a card-carrying member and genuine writer!

I'm sure Faulkner treasured his creative writing masters.

she got a teaching certificate, i already said that if you're going to do anything with a liberal arts degree you need more education or a teaching certificate and she's <i>doing both</I>

graduating with a BA by itself is wankery

:the helicopter:

and what on earth do you need a masters degree for to be a writer

She genuinely wants to be a good writer, so she's getting educated on a higher level. I think she's also considering a job working in the publication industry, and anything helps.

But again, graduating with a BA by itself isn't wankery- graduating with a BA with zero thought put into the future is as foolish as doing anything with no plan for what lies ahead. I mean you can major in Chemical Engineering and still be jobless if you don't know what you're doing.

nothing falls into your lap

Gravity does more work than you know.

I feel like saying you don't need a masters to write is like saying you don't need an MBA to start your own business. Yeah, it's not entirely necessary, but I'm pretty sure it's a calculated risk that pays off in the long run.

i think that's a pretty foolish thing to think

But again, graduating with a BA by itself isn't wankery- graduating with a BA with zero thought put into the future is as foolish as doing anything with no plan for what lies ahead. I mean you can major in Chemical Engineering and still be jobless if you don't know what you're doing.

at least chemical engineering is not completely esoteric and actually leads you along a line towards a career

BAs lead you along a line for more education

you guys do whatever but don't start crying in four years when no one gives a shit about your degree in being full of yourself, or in eight when you have astronomical debt and a masters in being full of yourself

of course that's assuming you'd actually pay for your own education which seems not to be the case you fucking wankers

I don't have any problem with more education to make more money. Engineers don't really pull in serious cash unless they get their masters either. In fact, basically everybody who wants to make 6 figures or more is going to go back to school.

i highly doubt you'd ever make six figures with an MA

for example, lets say you got an electrical engineering degree, like my friends wife. You start out working at 45k a year and you work on your masters so that you can make more money.

now take me, i have a history degree. I could get a job sorting tiny screws or putting books on shelves for like 25k a year or so. I could make more money doing other stuff in the corporate world but my education would mean fuck all to that end. Nothing, in fact I'd probably have to go back to school and take business. Or i could get a masters in library science and make about 40-50k a year. whooptie shit. that's the plan so far and i'm mighty pissed about the fact that my education costs as much as my friend's wife's education even though her ceiling is far higher. or i could be a douchebag and go to law school

the fact that you waste about half of your bachelors on relearning things you learned in high school, i mean tell me why we have these segmented, highly specialized degree programs. It's all about money for them, and you guys are just rubbing the president of the university's balls and going "gosh can i have more!?" Seriously, why the fuck did I need to take two science courses and an algebra course and all those stupid fucking electives i had to fill up on in my senior year to get a stupid bachelors that only requires you to go to school <i>again</I> for more money, and more difficulty? Why can't you do this the first time around and get it all done with in the first place. <I>what on earth is a batchelor's degree for?</I> I mean was the first time just a practice run and this time it's <i>for real?</I> I want my fucking money back you can have your fucking diploma you goddamn cash whoring sons of whores!!

i think there's a difference between saying wanting to make six figures (and I don't) and wanting to be paid more.

I don't have any problem with more education to make more money.

also correct me if i'm wrong but isn't this because you aren't paying for it

by the way faulkner appears not to even gone to college. don delillo got a communication arts BA from Fordham. Bret Easton Ellis was a bad student at a vermont college. Hemmingway went to the army instead of school. Cormac McCarthy didn't even graduate from Tennessee.

i'm sure i could fill a screen with this

actually encourages me somewhat

Are you trying to attack my gf for getting a formal education in a competitive field?

no i'm not trying at all

<i>it doesn't make any fucking sense</I>

i even read an article by Jonathan Franzen that was bemoaning how horrible and stifling creative writing programs at universities are in the first place. I mean shit dude, you don't need education to be a writer. You need talent and connections.

i mean the current world straddling multibillion dollar franchise was written by a stay at home mom for CHRIST'S SAKE

i mean the current world straddling multibillion dollar franchise was written by a stay at home mom for CHRIST'S SAKE

Even she went to college.

no i'm not trying at all

<i>it doesn't make any fucking sense</I>

i even read an article by Jonathan Franzen that was bemoaning how horrible and stifling creative writing programs at universities are in the first place. I mean shit dude, you don't need education to be a writer. You need talent and connections.

Connections are most easily made through such programs.

so how come i looked up six great authors and none of them have a masters in creative writing

i mean i didn't even look up any others, the first six i looked up, one of them is even a college dropout.

I doubt she wants to be the next JK Rowling, or Faulkner. She just wants to write. I think that's pretty beautiful.

If you like something, go learn about it, have fun, what's so hard? If life were nothing but acquiring liquid assets then investing them to increase my equity then...

if you want to write then write that's what i'm saying. you don't need a masters degree to do it.

stephen king started out writing blurbs in porn mags

i write a 1,000 words a day, i don't need a fucking masters degree to do that. stop enabling these fucking vultures that take all your money.

I have to agree with Trots on this one. I see no value to getting a Master's if one is pursuing a writing career. By the time you finish college, you either write well, or you don't. An extra degree won't change that. Maybe these programs do provide some connections to the industry, but is that alone really worth all the money spent on the degree?

In my view, if education and connections were all that big a part of what you need to be a successful writer, then all the people teaching in these programs would be writing for a living instead of hanging on to their cushy professor jobs.

I feel like saying you don't need a masters to write is like saying you don't need an MBA to start your own business. Yeah, it's not entirely necessary, but I'm pretty sure it's a calculated risk that pays off in the long run.

.

obviously duovamp doesn't pay his own way through school

:the helicopter:

too bad i'm going to have to pay them most of it

:the helicopter:

hopefully if you're making $121,000 ten years into your time in the workforce, you've already paid off your student loans. i mean come on.

you're not entirely wrong here, but you're putting a blanket that is way too large over everyone that gets a BA. as duovamp said, if you have some sort of plan for your future, there definitely are things you can do.

i'm probably going to "be a douchebag" and go to law school, but i couldn't very well do that without a BA. one of my friends is well on her way to a job in journalism. one she couldn't get without a BA or the connections she made and experiences she had while getting it. just to cite one example.

Guess what I received in the mail today.

http://i29.tinypic.com/dmppoi.jpg

this thread reminds me of my psychotic ex-co worker who, armed with a criminal justice degree, said it was worthless .. but i have to wonder that maybe it was 1.) his weight 2.) his personality

i know writing is super different from being a cop, but it just reminds me of him moaning and bitching about how a degree was "worthless" yet a lot of it, from what i could see, was that he was standing in his own way.

you should know with that degree oh wait

you're not entirely wrong here, but you're putting a blanket that is way too large over everyone that gets a BA.

This. As I've already said like three times.

hey guys I can't keep up with this thread. 2 pages in one day?!? So is socialism still for dipshits?

hey guys I can't keep up with this thread. 2 pages in one day?!? So is socialism still for dipshits?

the evidence is indisputable

at least chemical engineering is not completely esoteric and actually leads you along a line towards a career
my dad is a biochemist and he has been unemployed for years now

but i guess he's a moron

that's what duo says

back to the topic

wtf david scott (GA-13 rep.) got a fax of the obama joker picture that said death to marxism and called him a nigger

:confused: america

back to the topic

wtf david scott (GA-13 rep.) got a fax of the obama joker picture that said death to marxism and called him a nigger

:confused: america

http://o.aolcdn.com/photo-hub/news_gallery/6/2/626560/1250022079430.JPEG

No lib'ral commie negger gonna be tellin' ME what to do! Next year, we start takin' this great country back for us REAL 'mericans!

*hic*

WTF america

back to the topic

wtf david scott (GA-13 rep.) got a fax of the obama joker picture that said death to marxism and called him a nigger

:confused: america
yes that person who sent that fax is representative of america

Post Office Vandalized With Obama 'Joker' Posters

Post Office Vandalized With Obama 'Joker' Posters - News Story - WFTV Orlando (http://www.wftv.com/news/20362245/detail.html)

Apparently this Joker thing isn't going away, which is funny because THE COMPARISON DOESN'T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE


http://blogs.citypages.com/canderson/images/emperor_ovaltine.jpg

http://images.salon.com/ent/col/mill/2001/04/04/thats_my_bush/story.jpg

http://www.kein-plan.de/bitte-ziehen-sie-durch/pics/Bush_-_Evil_Empire.jpg

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/004-1031232851-cheney_revenge_of_the_sick.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/V/L/bush_gulfwars2.jpg

It's as if whoever started this thing was thinking "I'm pretty sick of all these anti-republican pop culture references, let's try it on the democrats! Who to use? Hmmmm..... uhhhhhhhhh...... that joker guy from last year is pretty popular, let's try to compare him to Obama even though the Joker represents chaos and anarchy while Obama stands for big government! They're both EVIL though!"

"Death to Obama" Sign Holder Detained by Secret Service | NBC Washington (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/Death-to-Obama-Sign-Holder-Detained-53134147.html)

"Death to Obama" Sign Holder Detained by Secret Service


They're taking away our freedom of speech!

i hope you're being facetious

I'm doing a BEc and BAppFin double degree. I'm tossing up between getting a major in mathematics or in management. Maths will help me get a good forecasting job while management will get me into a leadership role.

If all goes wrong I'm becoming an accountant.

You guys were talking about Marx earlier right?

I will now weigh in with some slander:

What is little known about him is that he was actually once a really fanatical and borderline crazy christian guy. Essentially, he became a hardcore messianic christian under his father's guidance who was originally jewish himself but converted to luthernaism so obviously he must have really seen something special in the message. You can see this looking at Karl's graduation essay from high school in 1835 or so called the "Union of faithful of Christ" or something along those lines. Here he talks about some kind of "mystical necessity of union" "to end god's rejection of man" and the like.

Stuff like this really says a lot about where marxist socialism comes from.

Although I guess this was common place because the roots of communism and collectivized property in a way of living sorta sense were actually grounded in millenniumist cults and the like.

Now, if you look at his works during the 1840s for the university of Berlin you see that he wrote poems and plays and the like. The basic themes of these were just megalomania and a jealous hatred of god leading to feelings of anger and the want of the destruction of the universe

Here are some stanzas from one of his poems called "feelings"

Worlds I would destroy for ever,
Since I can create no world,
Since my call they notice never,
Coursing dumb in magic whirl.

...

Heaven I would comprehend,
I would draw the world to me;
Loving, hating, I intend
That my star shine brilliantly.

Basically its this sorta jealousy towards some kinda god that leads me to classify Marx as a "militant atheist". This is very different from lets say a skeptical atheist like Voltaire, most normal atheists and myself. The basic Voltairian doctrine is "if god doesn't exist it would be necessary to create him" Marx subverts this to the socialist sentiment of "if god did exist It would be necessary to destroy him"

To illustrate this point and more about Marx's crazy here is an excerpt from his play Oulanem

"If there is Something which devours, I’ll leap within it, though I bring the world to ruins-The world which bulks between me and the abyss I will smash to pieces with my enduring curses. I’ll throw my arms around its harsh reality, embracing me, the world will dumbly pass away, And then sink down to utter nothingness, Perished, with no existence-that would be really living"

Now even his communist doctrine doesn't' sound that great. First of all Marx says that before you get the Utopian stuff where the water turns into lemonade etc. you get a state of raw communism which abandons marriage for prostitution, negates the personality of man, leads to strong feelings of envy and greed and jealousy and crime etc. etc.

I guess such suffering was meant to be redemptive or some kind of heroic struggle of man to shape the world or I dunno.

His economics is for a million reasons horrible. Firstly the biggest mistake he makes and the foundation of his whole book is that he says products exchange at equal values. For example $1.50 and bread of $1.50 and toy gun of $1.50 are of equal value to Marx. Now this is blatantly false the only reason people exchange is because of a double inequality. Its precisely because one person values the $1.50 less than the bread and the other values the bread less than the $1.50 that they exchange the money for the bread. In his search for such value equality he reinstates the labor theory of value which anyone with any sense knows is complete bunk.

Another interesting thing is because the whole subsistence theory Marx espoused never came about (i.e workers are actually living in comparative paradise when compared to pre-industrial revolution workers) marxists now never talk about poverty but relative poverty. So instead of defining poverty as something absolute it changes to a call for a revolutionary movement cause one guy has one swimming pool while some other guy has five which is hardly inspiring.

I dislike Marx. His influence today is terrible.

The End

Ever is right, Marx was a crazy fuck and nobody should pay any attention to his fucked up rantings

originally posted by Ever:
You guys were talking about Marx earlier right?

I will now weigh in with some slander:

What is little known about him is that he was actually once a really fanatical and borderline crazy christian guy. Essentially, he became a hardcore messianic christian under his father's guidance who was originally jewish himself but converted to luthernaism so obviously he must have really seen something special in the message. You can see this looking at Karl's graduation essay from high school in 1835 or so called the "Union of faithful of Christ" or something along those lines. Here he talks about some kind of "mystical necessity of union" "to end god's rejection of man" and the like.

Stuff like this really says a lot about where marxist socialism comes from.

Although I guess this was common place because the roots of communism and collectivized property in a way of living sorta sense were actually grounded in millenniumist cults and the like.

Now, if you look at his works during the 1840s for the university of Berlin you see that he wrote poems and plays and the like. The basic themes of these were just megalomania and a jealous hatred of god leading to feelings of anger and the want of the destruction of the universe

Here are some stanzas from one of his poems called "feelings"

Worlds I would destroy for ever,
Since I can create no world,
Since my call they notice never,
Coursing dumb in magic whirl.

...

Heaven I would comprehend,
I would draw the world to me;
Loving, hating, I intend
That my star shine brilliantly.

Basically its this sorta jealousy towards some kinda god that leads me to classify Marx as a "militant atheist". This is very different from lets say a skeptical atheist like Voltaire, most normal atheists and myself. The basic Voltairian doctrine is "if god doesn't exist it would be necessary to create him" Marx subverts this to the socialist sentiment of "if god did exist It would be necessary to destroy him"

To illustrate this point and more about Marx's crazy here is an excerpt from his play Oulanem

"If there is Something which devours, I’ll leap within it, though I bring the world to ruins-The world which bulks between me and the abyss I will smash to pieces with my enduring curses. I’ll throw my arms around its harsh reality, embracing me, the world will dumbly pass away, And then sink down to utter nothingness, Perished, with no existence-that would be really living"

Now even his communist doctrine doesn't' sound that great. First of all Marx says that before you get the Utopian stuff where the water turns into lemonade etc. you get a state of raw communism which abandons marriage for prostitution, negates the personality of man, leads to strong feelings of envy and greed and jealousy and crime etc. etc.

I guess such suffering was meant to be redemptive or some kind of heroic struggle of man to shape the world or I dunno.

His economics is for a million reasons horrible. Firstly the biggest mistake he makes and the foundation of his whole book is that he says products exchange at equal values. For example $1.50 and bread of $1.50 and toy gun of $1.50 are of equal value to Marx. Now this is blatantly false the only reason people exchange is because of a double inequality. Its precisely because one person values the $1.50 less than the bread and the other values the bread less than the $1.50 that they exchange the money for the bread. In his search for such value equality he reinstates the labor theory of value which anyone with any sense knows is complete bunk.

Another interesting thing is because the whole subsistence theory Marx espoused never came about (i.e workers are actually living in comparative paradise when compared to pre-industrial revolution workers) marxists now never talk about poverty but relative poverty. So instead of defining poverty as something absolute it changes to a call for a revolutionary movement cause one guy has one swimming pool while some other guy has five which is hardly inspiring.

I dislike Marx. His influence today is terrible.

The End




http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup/images/applause.gif

Alex Jones is gaining credibility because he backs up everything he cites...everything. As a result over the course of the last ten years when at first I thought him an amusing and sometimes paranoid individual, there's too much he's been right about to discount his factual assessments. That's all they are, so as I stated earlier, agree if you dare, disagree if you must but you won't be denying ignorance, which must happen to gain knowledge.

So if you hear crazy shit from him, it's not for effect, his style and delivery takes care of that, it's because his synthesis of events is drawn from a kaleidescope view of official news and official government information.

He doesn't need to make shit up to sound crazy because what is true and official is tyrannical in nature and you ought not by the corporate U.S. major media shills who would brand him an extremist, but now have to report as fact things Alex Jones discussed years ago (too many to list, but a recent one would be preparation of the Feds by preparing for Martial Law, which is now on the Office of the Governer's list of concerns.

It's the Governer's official memo stating concern over the Feds preparing for Martial Law and running rough shod over State sovereignty.

That's not Alex Jones b.s., it's the Governer's finally waking up! But y'all keep your ignorance there, you cynic of a cynic, it's almost like innocence.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/a8Hk1-BpXO8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/a8Hk1-BpXO8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Here's Alex Jones essentially predicting the events of 9/11 and revealing the U.S. governments cover for using CIA asset Osama bin Laden as the scapegoat.


This caused alot of people to speculate AJ himself as a government dis-info agent; a charge some still claim today but I just don't think that's the case. The banking elite Globalist I dont think even care anymore they're getting exposed...that's how far down the road we are now.

so, here's the Elephant in the room.

http://www.offuhuge.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/713e6_obama-joker-poster.jpg

We're 6 pages into a thread about this poster and no one bothered to post it (thought it would have by now) proving this board has lost it's balls and become way too fuckin PC.

And yes, I agree, the word Socialism doesn't apply correctly. In fact, in light of what is occuring under Obama, which is a Mussolini deflinition of Fascism, I would gladly take Socialism cause at least in theory that's a redistribution of wealth.

THEY JUST TOOK 23 TRILLION DOLLARS FROM US AND IT'S STILL NOT ENOUGH!!! It's insane what's occuring but it's all planned...it's like, some deep deep shit dude.

What does Alex Jones being an idiot have to do with the facts he presents?

so dont shoot the messenger, kill his message. You obviously have no idea what it is though, so...keep your ignorance while you can, it's almost like innocence.

:rofl:

so, here's the Elephant in the room.


And yes, I agree, the word Socialism doesn't apply correctly. In fact, in light of what is occuring under Obama, which is a Mussolini deflinition of Fascism, I would gladly take Socialism cause at least in theory that's a redistribution of wealth.



You don't know much about Mussolini, do you?

Please, nobody pay any attention to The Omega Concern and it will just go away.

Tell us more Omega.

... In fact, in light of what is occuring under Obama, which is a Mussolini deflinition of Fascism ....


This is golden.

This is what fascism is: Eco - "Eternal Fascism: 14 Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt" (http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html)

ok guys lets live in fear like omega concern




























































now what did that accomplish

Well I built this sweet hat out of tinfoil, for starters. Also my kids now believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that Obama will take away their guns.

The Obama/Fascism thing is really out there. These people obviously have NO idea what the ideology of fascism is. Obama is really pretty much the opposite.

The three basic components of fascism are antirationalism (Obama is a rationalist), organicism,(well, the facists got that one right IMO), and absolutism (uh this hasn't been seriously considered since the seventeenth century).

soooooo

You tards go on commenting about the Obama poster no one bothers to show and I'm living in fear?


I had thought the OP put it up, which would have been nice considering you started a thread about the poster, but no.

And all you chickenshit liberals carry on about a poster you don't want to see.

but Trots think I live in fear...


fools.

^ lol

You tards go on commenting about the Obama poster no one bothers to show and I'm living in fear?


I had thought the OP put it up, which would have been nice considering you started a thread about the poster, but no.

And all you chickenshit liberals carry on about a poster you don't want to see.

but Trots think I live in fear...


fools.

Yeah man, no one posted it because we were just too scared to see it. It really must suck being so stupid you are afraid of everything. The world changes man. And it always gets better. There is no reason to fight change. It seems like it should be pretty self-evident to any properly functioning individual that over the course of human history liberalism always wins. People who want things to stay the same never win, dude. A 5th grader in a social studies class could tell you that. Being a reactionary or an obstructionist to progress only makes you look like a narrow minded, misguided windbag in the harsh light of history. It is not the correct path.

You tards go on commenting about the Obama poster no one bothers to show and I'm living in fear?


I had thought the OP put it up, which would have been nice considering you started a thread about the poster, but no.

And all you chickenshit liberals carry on about a poster you don't want to see.

but Trots think I live in fear...


fools.

I'm pretty sure no one posted it because no one care. I saw it, I thought it was just a funny photoshop, I didn't know it had some profoundly stupid meaning behind it. The people offended by it are retarded, and the people who think it actually means something are retarded.

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....


Modern History Sourcebook: Mussolini: What is Fascism, 1932 (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html)





o.k. Very simple part of Mussolini's writings, but also very concise: with that in mind, lets look at what's in the current proposal for Health Care reform.

In practice, Italy became embroiled with corporate interest interlocking with Government policy: Bush operated on this condition and now Obama has put it in hyperdrive...but back to this aspect of fascism about and how someone in government needs to determine what "harmful freedom's" are...


PG 22 MANDATES the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

PG 24 Line 116 Government effectively sets prices for ALL private health plans.

PG 30 Line 123 THERE WILL BE A Government COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

PG 37 Line 132 The Government will be reviewing grievances about themselves and will decide on appeals for rejected claims.

PG 29 Line 4-16 YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!! Additionally you can reference PG 15 Line 19-25.

PG 42 The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HealthCare Benefits for you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Line 152 HealthCare will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

PG 58 Government will have real-time access to individuals’ finances & a National ID HealthCare Card will be issued!

PG 59 Line 21-24 Government will have direct access to your banks accounts for electronic funds transfer!

PG 61 Line 22-24 Congress has no clue what Electronic Medical Records will cost. Asks for estimate.

PG 62 Protection of Data, Government shows they will have database of your personal & financial info.

OK peeps a big one – PG 64 Line 21-25, pg65 Line 1-5 which refers to processing payment transactions by financial institutions

PG 65 Line 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (ACORN).

PG 72 Line 8-14 Government is creating an HealthCare Exchange to bring private HealthCare plans under Government control.

PG 84 Line 203 Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private. HealthCare plans in the Exchange.

PG 85 Line 7 Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Government will ration your HealthCare! #AARP members – your Health care Will be rationed.

PG 89 Line 6-10 The FAR is not applicable. Government can write contracts any way they want.

PG 95 Line 8-18 The Government will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Government HealthCare plan.

PG 98 Line 8 Americans - You will be paying for others HealthCare while paying for your own.

PG 100 Line 15-19 The Government Will be using ACORN and other community groups to promote & enroll.

PG 102 Line 12-18 Medicaid Eligible Individual will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

PG 109 Line 207 Health Trust Fund. The Government will raise taxes on EVERYONE to fund HealthCare as they see fit. Correction

PG 110 Line 7-12 Employment taxes on ALL employers NOT offering Government HealthCare. No choice.

PG 110 Line 13-18 An excise tax on ALL goods from companies not offering Government HealthCare. ALL Americans pay.

PG 110 Line 19-24 the Treasury can take $$ from Soc Line to pay HealthCare.

PG 111 Line 208 The Federal Government will usurp all State powers in State Based HealthCare Exchange. Violation of 10th Amend.

PG 119 Line 1-3 Establish geographically-adjusted premium rates for public option Can you say ACORN census?

PG 121 Line 223 PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES. Can you say Government price fixing & monopoly?

PG 124 Line 24-25 No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.

PG 126 Line 10-15 The Government can make up prices for anything at anytime for any reason.

PG 126 Line 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HealthCare for part time employees AND their families.

PG 127 Line 1-16 Doctors: The Government will tell YOU what you can make.

PG 129 The public option will be subsidized. Credits = your tax dollars. Redistribution of wealth.

PG 130 Line 10-23 Federal Government will subsidize State Medicaid = Even Higher State & Federal taxes for ALL.

PG 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.

PG 149 Line 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll 400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

PG 150 Line 9-13 Biz with payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

PG 151 Line 1-3 Aggregate Rules-tax on employers payroll not on public option ******* payroll of other biz.

PG 167 Line 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HealthCare according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of inc.

PG 170 Line 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

PG 195 Officers & employees of HealthCare Administration (Government) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records.

PG 198 Line 1-3 1.5% ADDITIONAL TAX on peeps who have income of 500k to 1mil. Redistribution of Wealth.

PG 198 Line 4-6 5.4% ADDITIONAL TAX on peeps who have income of $1mil+. Redistribution of Wealth

PG 199 Line 1-4 Surtax rates on raised AGAIN on Americans in 2012.

PG 201 Line 12-19 Government will ignore whatever costs they see fit to show savings. (Cooking the books)

PG 203 Line 14-15 “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.

PG 202-215 is a Government rewrite of the tax code ensuring more taxes for EVERYONE, Everywhere.

PG 239 Line 14-24 Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

PG 241 Line 6-8 Doctors, doesn’t matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same.

PG 236 Line 22-25 PG 237 Line 1-3 National rate of uninsured defined by Census. Can you say ACORN corruption?

PG 239 Line 10-12 Medicare DSH payments will be increased. Can you say even higher taxes for all?

PG 238-249 Line 1121 Doctors-Government mandates your growth, costs, value, services, & income. Peeps- Welcome to rationing

PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Dr’s time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans. We’re next.

PG 260 Line 1125 Fed Government will adjust Medicare Payment Localities for California based on Census. ACORN?

PG 265 Line 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HealthCare industries.

PG 268 Line 1141 Fed Government regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

PG 270 Line 1144 Government Mandates that all private ambulatory surgical centers submit cost data & other data

PG 272 Line 1145 TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing!

PG 276 Line 3-20 Oxygen Equipment & Supply Companies - Government MANDATES you will provide supplies NO MATTER where individual is.

PG 287 Line 14-25 PROOF that Government will ration HealthCare by mandating waiting periods for readmission.

PG 298 Line 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission - Government will penalize you.

PG 303 Line 12-25 Post Acute Care Services Data – Government will collect data including personal information as they see fit.

PG 304 Line 17-19 BIG ONE HERE: Expedited Data Collection – More information here

PG 304 Line 17-19 Government does NOT have to protect your private, share with anyone, & is not resp (more on expedited data collection)

PG 306 Line 3-6 The Government can expand the scope & size of Post Acute Program Services anytime & as they see fit.

PG 313 Line 9-14 Government MANDATES Health Services providers will state ownership, invest, & compensation arrangements.

PG 317 Line 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

PG 317-318 Line 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Government is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

PG 318-319 Government is mandating how hospitals & physicians conduct business & investments. We’re next!

PG 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

PG 328 Line 1157 Government study disguised. Its a HealthCare workforce study mandated by law for unionization.

Pg335 Line 16-25 PG 336-339 Government mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HealthCare the way they want. Rationing.

PG 341 Line 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps in to Government plan.

PG 354 Line 1177 Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!

PG 355-369 Line 1181 Government disguises tax on Drug Companies as rebate to Government to subsidize Drugs. We pay in the end.

PG 379 Line 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Telehealth Advisory Committee. Can you say HealthCare by phone?

PG 399 If your a subsidy eligible individual under Medicare part D and you don’t enroll, the Government will auto enroll you.

PG 401 Section 1221 Americans will fund Medicare Language & Translation Services Program. Can you say MORE taxes?

PG 404 Lines 12-16 Government exempts itself again from - Chap 35 of title 44, USC including privacy of Americans.

PG 404 Lines 17-19 Government doesn’t know the cost of Language services but states that money is there.

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life.

PG 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.


the Health Care Bill can be found here:

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf


that's not even half of it reviewed, btw...

Jokey,

no one bothered to post it because political discourse in the forum is reduced to neanderthal namecalling...why bother with didactic reasoning and synthesis, it's much easier to be stupid and blind.

Nothing you just posted changes the fact that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND FASCISM. Read a fucking book you goddamn ignorant motherfucker. As was already said, fascism has hallmark facets of things like irrationalism, and absolutism, neither of which have been displayed by Barack Obama and his health care plan. What's more is that fascism under Mussolini was defined by rampant nationalism and under Hitler by rampant racism, NEITHER WHICH HAVE BEEN DISPLAYED BY BARACK OBAMA AND HIS HEALTH CARE PLAN. If you would like to educate yourself you can hop on over to wikipedia and bone up on the ideology of fascism and what it entails, because right now you could not be more lost. You're just as bad as the socialism screamers.... even if it were true, they HAVE NO IDEA what socialism is, they just heard somewhere that it was bad.

Obama certainly loves national corporatism though, doesn't he?

Obama certainly loves national corporatism though, doesn't he?

We already know you don't understand anything, it doesn't bear repeating.

wow, three neg reps from Nimrod in a row, guess I'm thinking the right things politically.

originally posted by redbreegull:

As was already said, fascism has hallmark facets of things like irrationalism, and absolutism, neither of which have been displayed by Barack Obama and his health care plan.




pg. 22: MANDATES the Government will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!


How is this not absolute? How isn't this irrational to the self-insured who care not to participate in government run health care?

redbree: You cited Wikipedia...please stop accusing me of the idiot you so clearly are...

prepare to be crushed redbree, you can say Uncle anytime...

you're not crushing anyone, wackjob.

redbree:

This is for you and the rest of the Obamatards who can't think their way out of a piece of shit, in a paper bag:


Outlined in sections 440 and 1904 of the House bill (Page 838), under the heading "home visitation programs for families with young children and families expecting children." The programs (provided via grants to states) would educate parents on child behavior and parenting skills.

The bill says that the government agents, "well-trained and competent staff," would "provide parents with knowledge of age-appropriate child development in cognitive, language, social, emotional, and motor domains ... modeling, consulting, and coaching on parenting practices," and "skills to interact with their child to enhance age-appropriate development."


Since when did health-care reform become government run child-care? Yes, this is the thing that pissed off Chuck Norris real bad...oops.

But wait, there's more:

Page 840: The state "shall identify and prioritize serving communities that are in high need of such services, especially communities with a high proportion of low-income families."


That's interesting...this falls right in line with Michelle Obama's task at that hospital she worked at in Chicago...she would essentially ration the poor's health care, her favorite trick is that if they looked black and poor, to just ignore them and see if they left.


The First Lady helped create a notorious program that dumped poor patients on community hospitals, yet the national media ignore the story. Imagine if her husband were a Republican.

American Thinker: Michelle Obama's Patient-Dumping Scheme (http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/03/michelle_obamas_patientdumping_1.html)



Wow...no fascism here. nope. The government can fix everything, totally rational...man. The wonders of Obamatardism -- feels as stupid as it sounds.

Trots:

just used examples citing the correlation between Obama's proposed deeds and Fascism. Asked Redbree a question how these deeds do not fit the example Red put up...still waiting for that answer.

But if you want to continue with your enlightened interjections of...nothing. knock yourself out.

this plugin that lets you completely ignore posters is amazing

Trots:

just used examples citing the correlation between Obama's proposed deeds and Fascism. Asked Redbree a question how these deeds do not fit the example Red put up...still waiting for that answer.

But if you want to continue with your enlightened interjections of...nothing. knock yourself out.

yeah i don't really have any respect for you at all since you've repeatedly shown yourself to be absolutely out of your fucking mind

i remember when you told me you dropped out of college because of all the commies. pretty pathetically weak way of doing things don't you think? couldn't handle the commies huh you little crybaby?

fucking wanker

we can call this "LIBERAL TOTALITARIANISM"

it all fits the Joker image:



Imagine it's four years ago and an aide to President George W. Bush posted a blog on the Whitehouse.gov Web site that bemoaned Internet criticism of the Iraq war, then continued: "These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain e-mails or through casual conversations.

Since we can't keep track of all of them here at the White House, we're asking for your help. If you get an e-mail or see something on the Web about anti-war protests that seem fishy, send it to [email protected]."

Substitute the words "health insurance reform" for "anti-war protests," and you get the exact wording of a blog posted by Macon Phillips, the White House director of new media, on Tuesday.




Dissent is patriotic - not (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/08/09/IN94194BCD.DTL)


that's Debra Saunders from the SF Chronicle; A reasoned liberal that can actually see hyprocisy from Liberals and call them out on it.

I never told you I dropped out of college because of commies, because I never dropped out of college.

Care to cite that statement from me?

The Omega Concern should be hired to write the plotline for Metal Gear Solid 5.

We already know you don't understand anything, it doesn't bear repeating.

Do you even understand what national corporatism is?

Seriously, it's like talking with children.

well ya Nimrod,

Redbree, all you had to say was 'Uncle'...but thanks for showing your inability to argue and proudly displaying it by mentioning the ignore function of this site.


or, I'll just show you what you're doing:

http://www.khanya.co.za/blogs/images/head_in_sand.jpg


But look...

this is the whole problem with the left/right paradigm...we shouldn't be argueing at all because none of these men, Bush Sr., Dubya, Clinton, Obama, give a crap about the constitution or bill of rights or any of it...they are all criminal operatives disguised as U.S. politicians or ambassadors to siphon off trillions of dollars from basically all nations including and especially the citizens of the United States:

Google...International Currency Review...hit the latest report ( I thinks its dated Aug. 17) and you'll see for yourself how fucked up the situation in the world truly is.


Bush Sr. is still the most powerful man in this country...he has Bill Clinton as his crony bag-man of sorts...he's appearently compromised or leveraged Obama to play the big game that's been going on for a long time and of course there's Hillary, something of a wild card...she's been in Africa all this time cuz it's those banks that are safe havens for all these criminals to stash their money.

Redbree...

the Asians, Russians and England are the primary countries in a currency war against the U.S. The Bush/Rockefeller/Bank of America nexus is battling against the Rothschild/Queen/Citigroup nexus for complete monetary control, and by extention just about all else everywhere.

the game is much bigger than Obama. OK? He just wants a piece of the game like they all do...there was never any CHANGE to this guy...you've been duped.

Much worse than you realize...

yeah

Jokey,

no one bothered to post it because political discourse in the forum is reduced to neanderthal namecalling...why bother with didactic reasoning and synthesis, it's much easier to be stupid and blind.

Well then here, you fucking wanker.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/87/obamasocialism20joker.jpg

Personally, I like this one better.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2499/obama2face.jpg

this plugin that lets you completely ignore posters is amazing

it really is.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2499/obama2face.jpg

fuuuuuck

I never told you I dropped out of college because of commies, because I never dropped out of college.

Care to cite that statement from me?

not surprising that you're also a shameless liar

cant sleep clown will eat me

\Bush Sr., Dubya, Clinton, Obama, give a crap about the constitution or bill of rights or any of it...they are all criminal operatives disguised as U.S. politicians or ambassadors to siphon off trillions of dollars from basically all nations including and especially the citizens of the United States:\

Omega, you do realize that Metal Gear Solid 2 is just a video game, right?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

President Johnson: I don't have any control. The real power is in the Patriots' hands.

Raiden: The Patriots...?

Johnson: The truth behind this country... I'm not surprised you've never heard of them. Very few are aware of their existence, even among those with codeword clearance.

Raiden: ?

Johnson: Politics, the military, the economy -- they control it all. They even choose who becomes President... Putting it simply, the Patriots rule this country.

Raiden: No...

Johnson : Hard to believe, isn't it? But it's the truth. Every policy that's been credited to me was actually done according to their instructions. That's what the Patriots want the country to believe...It's all a show. "Democracy" is just a filler for textbooks! Think about it! Do you actually believe that public opinion influences the government?

Raiden : ...No.

Johnson : This country is shaped and controlled as the Patriots see fit. The people are shown what they want to believe. What you call government is actually a well-staged production aimed at satisfying the public!

Raiden : ...

Johnson : Don't look at me like that -- I'm legally sane, you know.

Raiden : It's not your sanity that worries me...

Johnson : The Patriots -- even I don't know who the actual members are. Are they financial, political, or military leaders? No one knows who the Patriots really are. Even my instructions come from a cut-out. All I've been told is that every key decision is made by a group of twelve men known as the Wisemen's Committee.

Raiden : Your Office...? The White House...?

Johnson : Merely puppets. Pawns in a game. By pledging my loyalty, an insignificant senator was awarded the Presidency.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Replace "Johnson" with "Obama", and "Patriots" with "Bilderburg Group", and the above is pretty much your wackjob beliefs in a nutshell.

which is a Mussolini deflinition of Fascism,
Shut the fuck up.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090801.gif

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2499/obama2face.jpg

This one actually makes sense

just used examples citing the correlation between Obama's proposed deeds and Fascism. Asked Redbree a question how these deeds do not fit the example Red put up...still waiting for that answer.

But if you want to continue with your enlightened interjections of...nothing. knock yourself out.


On what planet do you spend most of your time?

Change of costume

http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/ObamaHitler%201%20.jpg

change of orthography too, shitdicks

man this country sucks

originally posted by someone I've never met and doesn't know me:

not surprising that you're also a shameless liar


I graduated college.

I may have told you about a Sociology professor I had constant battles with, Dr. William Dubious, who despite his Communitarianism ideals and a pension to stop class early because he got tired debating me, was an incredibadly pleasant and well read man who much to my surprise, just 6 months after Clinton's inauguration, already had written him off as a shill puppet...this, after he spent an entire year and half detailing George Herbert Walker Bush's drug dealings with the C.I.A. (among other Bushy family things) which I thought was nutty stuff at the time, but now understand to be true.



originally posted by Andy Slash:

Originally Posted by redbull
this plugin that lets you completely ignore posters is amazing
it really is.


yes. the technology of ignorance. im sure momma's proud.

http://www.ruderfinn.co.uk/blogs/dotcom/files/2009/06/enviromental-head-in-the-sand.jpg


originally posted by Tchoky:

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern
\Bush Sr., Dubya, Clinton, Obama, give a crap about the constitution or bill of rights or any of it...they are all criminal operatives disguised as U.S. politicians or ambassadors to siphon off trillions of dollars from basically all nations including and especially the citizens of the United States:\
Omega, you do realize that Metal Gear Solid 2 is just a video game, right?


Save some Chess and x-box Hockey, I don't play video games.

check this:

Announcements Archive (http://www.worldreports.org/news)

I've read every one of those articles. It's what the insiders read. You should to.

Not to mention Bob Chapman, Webster Tarpley, Peter Schiff, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser... Mish and Tyler Durden if you want the underground stuff...many others. Though none of them can spin the tale Chris Story has cause they don't have connections to the her majesty the Queen.

originally posted by Gish08:

Originally Posted by The Omega Concern :
which is a Mussolini deflinition of Fascism,
Shut the fuck up.

Modern History Sourcebook: Mussolini: What is Fascism, 1932 (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html)

"In 1932 Mussolini wrote (with the help of Giovanni Gentile) and entry for the Italian Encyclopedia on the definition of fascism..."

hence, Mussolin's definition of fascism. So what the fuck are you on about Gish? Do you have a point you wish to articulate?












Modern History Sourcebook: Mussolini: What is Fascism, 1932 (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.html)

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Kind of defeats the purpose when somebody who looks like that is doing it.

I guess every we're the only industrialized democracy that isn't socialist

i guess that just really needed to be said

fuck you for bumping this pos