View Full Version : Nothing like government in bed with unions


Nimrod's Son
06-24-2009, 03:20 AM
700 NYC teachers are paid to do nothing - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090622/ap_on_re_us/us_rubber_rooms)

700 NYC teachers are paid to do nothing

<!-- end: .tools --> <cite class="caption">AP – This May 2006 photo provided by art teacher Judith Cohen shows her sitting in front of cardboard boxes … </cite>

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<!-- end .related-media --> <cite class="vcard"> By KAREN MATTHEWS, Associated Press Writer Karen Matthews, Associated Press Writer </cite> – <abbr title="2009-06-22T14:20:55-0700" class="timedate">Mon Jun 22, 5:20 pm ET</abbr>
<!-- end .byline --> NEW YORK – Hundreds of New York City public school teachers accused of offenses ranging from insubordination to sexual misconduct are being paid their full salaries to sit around all day playing Scrabble, surfing the Internet or just staring at the wall, if that's what they want to do.
Because their union contract makes it extremely difficult to fire them, the teachers have been banished by the school system to its "rubber rooms" — off-campus office space where they wait months, even years, for their disciplinary hearings.
The 700 or so teachers can practice yoga, work on their novels, paint portraits of their colleagues — pretty much anything but school work. They have summer vacation just like their classroom colleagues and enjoy weekends and holidays through the school year.
"You just basically sit there for eight hours," said Orlando Ramos, who spent seven months in a rubber room, officially known as a temporary reassignment center, in 2004-05. "I saw several near-fights. `This is my seat.' `I've been sitting here for six months.' That sort of thing."
Ramos was an assistant principal in East Harlem when he was accused of lying at a hearing on whether to suspend a student. Ramos denied the allegation but quit before his case was resolved and took a job in California.
Because the teachers collect their full salaries of $70,000 or more, the city Department of Education estimates the practice costs the taxpayers $65 million a year. The department blames union rules.
"It is extremely difficult to fire a tenured teacher because of the protections afforded to them in their contract," spokeswoman Ann Forte said.
City officials said that they make teachers report to a rubber room instead of sending they home because the union contract requires that they be allowed to continue in their jobs in some fashion while their cases are being heard. The contract does not permit them to be given other work.
Ron Davis, a spokesman for the United Federation of Teachers, said the union and the Department of Education reached an agreement last year to try to reduce the amount of time educators spend in reassignment centers, but progress has been slow.
"No one wants teachers who don't belong in the classroom. However, we cannot neglect the teachers' rights to due process," Davis said. The union represents more than 228,000 employees, including nearly 90,000 teachers.
Many teachers say they are being punished because they ran afoul of a vindictive boss or because they blew the whistle when somebody fudged test scores.
"The principal wants you out, you're gone," said Michael Thomas, a high school math teacher who has been in a reassignment center for 14 months after accusing an assistant principal of tinkering with test results.
City education officials deny teachers are unfairly targeted but say there has been an effort under Mayor Michael Bloomberg to get incompetents out of the classroom. "There's been a push to report anything that you see wrong," Forte said.
Some other school systems likewise pay teachers to do nothing.
The Los Angeles district, the nation's second-largest school system with 620,000 students, behind New York's 1.1 million, said it has 178 teachers and other staff members who are being "housed" while they wait for misconduct charges to be resolved.
Similarly, Mimi Shapiro, who is now retired, said she was assigned to sit in what Philadelphia calls a "cluster office." "They just sit you in a room in a hard chair," she said, "and you just sit."
Teacher advocates say New York's rubber rooms are more extensive than anything that exists elsewhere.
Teachers awaiting disciplinary hearings around the nation typically are sent home, with or without pay, Karen Horwitz, a former Chicago-area teacher who founded the National Association for the Prevention of Teacher Abuse. Some districts find non-classroom work — office duties, for example — for teachers accused of misconduct.
New York City's reassignment centers have existed since the late 1990s, Forte said. But the number of employees assigned to them has ballooned since Bloomberg won more control over the schools in 2002. Most of those sent to rubber rooms are teachers; others are assistant principals, social workers, psychologists and secretaries.
Once their hearings are over, they are either sent back to the classroom or fired. But because their cases are heard by 23 arbitrators who work only five days a month, stints of two or three years in a rubber room are common, and some teachers have been there for five or six.
The nickname refers to the padded cells of old insane asylums. Some teachers say that is fitting, since some of the inhabitants are unstable and don't belong in the classroom. They add that being in a rubber room itself is bad for your mental health.
"Most people in that room are depressed," said Jennifer Saunders, a high school teacher who was in a reassignment center from 2005 to 2008. Saunders said she was charged with petty infractions in an effort to get rid of her: "I was charged with having a student sit in my class with a hat on, singing."
The rubber rooms are monitored, some more strictly than others, teachers said.
"There was a bar across the street," Saunders said. "Teachers would sneak out and hang out there for hours."
Judith Cohen, an art teacher who has been in a rubber room near Madison Square Garden for three years, said she passes the time by painting watercolors of her fellow detainees.
"The day just seemed to crawl by until I started painting," Cohen said, adding that others read, play dominoes or sleep. Cohen said she was charged with using abusive language when a girl cut her with scissors.
Some sell real estate, earn graduate degrees or teach each other yoga and tai chi.
David Suker, who has been in a Brooklyn reassignment center for three months, said he has used the time to plan summer trips to Alaska, Cape Cod and Costa Rica. Suker said he was falsely accused of throwing a girl's test sign-up form in the garbage during an argument.
"It's sort of peaceful knowing that you're going to work to do nothing," he said.
Philip Nobile is a journalist who has written for New York Magazine and the Village Voice and is known for his scathing criticism of public figures. A teacher at Brooklyn's Cobble Hill School of American Studies, Nobile was assigned to a rubber room in 2007, "supposedly for pushing a boy while I was breaking up a fight." He contends the school system is retaliating against him for exposing wrongdoing.
He is spending his time working on his case and writing magazine articles and a novel.
"This is what happens to political prisoners throughout history," he said, alluding to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. "They put us in prison and we write our `Letter From the Birmingham Jail.'"

ryan patrick
06-24-2009, 03:39 AM
oh no when there is an issue they must wait to receive a hearing before they are fired or reinstated! this is injustice!

ryan patrick
06-24-2009, 03:42 AM
also there are other things like government in bed with unions. government in bed with industry lobbyists, for example.

thread is fail. CONTINUE?

Nimrod's Son
06-24-2009, 04:00 AM
oh no when there is an issue they must wait to receive a hearing before they are fired or reinstated! this is injustice!

7 years of being paid with no hearing? Glad to see you support this.

Nimrod's Son
06-24-2009, 04:01 AM
also there are other things like government in bed with unions. government in bed with industry lobbyists, for example.

thread is fail. CONTINUE?

Good call. Unions don't have lobbyists!

ryan patrick
06-24-2009, 04:23 AM
7 years of being paid with no hearing? Glad to see you support this.

obviously they could do to speed up the hearing process but the 7 years case is exception not rule.

i just think you pick the weirdest issues to make a thread about.

ryan patrick
06-24-2009, 04:24 AM
Good call. Unions don't have lobbyists!

i am sorry, you are misinformed, unions have lobbyists.

dudehitscar
06-24-2009, 02:30 PM
yet another issue of people excusing stupidity and waste just because Nimrod brought it up.

There is NO defending this. I'm with ya Nimrod. Yay for teachers but fuck this shit.

Debaser
06-24-2009, 03:23 PM
obviously they could do to speed up the hearing process but the 7 years case is exception not rule.

i just think you pick the weirdest issues to make a thread about.

the local rightwing radio show in san diego must have been harping on this recently

Mayfuck
06-24-2009, 03:40 PM
the local rightwing radio show in san diego must have been harping on this recently

yeah the LA times did a story on this a few months ago. i'm guessing glenn beck or rush limbaugh just picked up on the story.

dudehitscar
06-24-2009, 03:49 PM
yeah the LA times did a story on this a few months ago. i'm guessing glenn beck or rush limbaugh just picked up on the story.

or Nimrod was on Yahoo today...

Luke's Wall
06-24-2009, 04:40 PM
I dislike unions. At one point they were valuable, but like many things they grew to big and rigid to be productive. For example, a union worker is less productive by mandate of the union. A worker can't go outside of his job/department to help get necessary work in another department done because it is against the rules.

dudehitscar
06-24-2009, 04:58 PM
I dislike unions. At one point they were valuable, but like many things they grew to big and rigid to be productive. For example, a union worker is less productive by mandate of the union. A worker can't go outside of his job/department to help get necessary work in another department done because it is against the rules.

The developing world needs more workers to join together and fight for fair wages, safety and health, and rest time. The government will follow. This is what happened in the us.

The US needs more workers to stop whining and compete a bit. The US also needs more managers to get over themselves and realize that much of their wealth is not earned but created by the social conditions they are lucky enough to be in.

if both things happened we could have a nice world middle class where talents aren't wasted and the rich don't just become an island onto themselves while the world starves.

Nimrod's Son
06-24-2009, 06:49 PM
yeah the LA times did a story on this a few months ago. i'm guessing glenn beck or rush limbaugh just picked up on the story.

Anything is possible since I don't listen to either of them. I heard about it on Yahoo! It's not an old story, it was published Monday. Feel free to dismiss it though.

Nimrod's Son
06-24-2009, 06:50 PM
I like the trade unions - they're necessary (like the Carpenter's Union or the Ironworkers Union) because you know you're getting skilled labor and independent contractors can join a union to get jobs if they wish. As long as the government stays out of it, it's fine.