View Full Version : 2012


I'm Hardcore
06-16-2009, 09:30 PM
are you guys frightened

Sylvia Woods
06-16-2009, 09:32 PM
This is the most uninteresting thing about nearly all my friends. Livin life in 2013 y'all.

Shallowed
06-16-2009, 09:36 PM
Shit yes, having the Olympic Games in London is a recipe for disaster.

Joe
06-16-2009, 11:15 PM
luckily i have a bomb shelter left over from 2000

did you ever thing maybe the mayans just got bored writing years they whould never live to see?

fluxequalsrad
06-16-2009, 11:33 PM
does anyone actually believe this horseshit?

I'm Hardcore
06-17-2009, 12:39 AM
does anyone actually believe this horseshit?

yeah plenty of morons

it's not even the theory itself that pisses me off. It's hearing about it every goddamn day. One of my best friends practically dedicates her life to it.


OH GUYS WE CAN SAVE THE WORLD! WE JUST GOTTA FIND THE CRYSTAL SKULLS!!!

ohnoitsbonnie
06-17-2009, 01:04 AM
But it is only 2009

publius clodius
06-17-2009, 02:11 AM
OH GUYS WE CAN SAVE THE WORLD! WE JUST GOTTA FIND THE CRYSTAL SKULLS!!!
if only this were true

threetwooneZERO
06-17-2009, 02:21 AM
I was at a party on the weekend and some shithead woman was talking about how the kids are all saying the world is going to end in 2012.

She never did get out of that factory.

I'm Hardcore
06-17-2009, 02:31 AM
if only this were true

well that Muse album kinda told me

ryan patrick
06-17-2009, 03:08 AM
2012 is a meme

ryan patrick
06-17-2009, 03:09 AM
tell your friend to learn the real truth at infowars dot com

I'm Hardcore
06-17-2009, 03:10 AM
fuck don't go on about that please

Sonic Johnny
06-17-2009, 04:01 AM
i'm not scared because i'm a rational human capable of logic, and therefore can see that the whole 2012 thing is a load of horse shit.

topleybird
06-17-2009, 09:15 AM
Shit yes, having the Olympic Games in London is a recipe for disaster.

Calling these the Apocolympics is still somewhat funny to me

The rest of the 2012 stuff has gotten impossibly drab and boring now that every halfwit on the street is vaguely aware that something really bad is supposed to happen because someone said so a long time ago

The singularity is a comforting thought for nerds who eagerly await the next level of human consciousness/evolution/whatever despite the fact that we've clearly made very little progress toward overcoming our own limitations, so, like, why not just have something magically happen to us rather than have us earn anything

Toast
06-17-2009, 09:40 AM
Nothing unusual will happen in 2012

publius clodius
06-17-2009, 02:29 PM
i'm not scared because i'm a rational human capable of logic, and therefore can see that the whole 2012 thing is a load of horse shit.
don't tell me you don't have any irrational fears

Caine Walker
06-17-2009, 02:41 PM
<h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1>hoo-ah!!!<h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1>yeahyeahyeahfuckyeah!<h1>2012</h1><h1>2012</h1>

wounded
06-17-2009, 02:58 PM
i do enjoy the doomsday shows on history channel

ohnoitsbonnie
06-17-2009, 03:32 PM
The world isn't going to end until the year 2525

barden
06-17-2009, 04:42 PM
i'll be sure to check it out

topleybird
06-17-2009, 04:54 PM
The world isn't going to end until the year 2525

Whoa, whoa, whoa, but will man still be alive? Can woman survive?

Eulogy
06-17-2009, 05:08 PM
uhhhh i haven't heard anything about this

QUICK SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO SAVE MYSELF

Mablak
06-17-2009, 05:10 PM
If my calculations are correct, the world won't end in 2012, time will simply start going backwards.

barden
06-17-2009, 05:23 PM
youtube that shite bra we're going to die.
i've heard about it but i dont actually know any of the specifics. something about some orbit shift or something i think.

bardy
06-17-2009, 06:53 PM
can someone give me some reference to the 2012 thing?

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Shallowed
06-17-2009, 08:24 PM
If my calculations are correct, the world won't end in 2012, time will simply start going backwards.

So time must be currently slowing down.

bardy
06-17-2009, 08:30 PM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZlcPWa6SomE&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZlcPWa6SomE&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Mablak
06-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Obviously time is already slowing down. It's just that we all have the same perception of time so no one notices it, no one except the bees. And they've already started disappearing. It all adds up.

maoi
06-17-2009, 08:37 PM
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Ugly
06-17-2009, 08:46 PM
Unless Chris Carter makes X-Files 3 and has Mulder and Scully save the day from the planed alien invasion, we're all fucked. Seeing how much money I Want To Believe made, I'd say we're all fucked.

Zorgon
06-17-2009, 09:29 PM
The world isn't going to end until the year 2525

The same number as the bus in Speed! Coincidence? Highly unlikely.

ella
06-17-2009, 10:31 PM
If my calculations are correct, the world won't end in 2012, time will simply start going backwards.

Well time has become a man-made construct and not necessarily within our reality. I mean, Einstein concluded that our view of time is an illusion, but his work has been too abstract to influence the way people in modern cultures usually define time. Not only do we think of time as passing, but we've become increasingly obsessed with this idea.

Our obsession is reflected in our clocks, which have become increasingly precise, with modern clocks there is absolutely no room for human error, since it's set by wireless signals that synchronizes them.

Okay anyways, I could talk about this crap forever.

Nice to be back for a little bit, but I'm not promising I'll be back soon. Maybe tonight....tomorrow...or a month from now.

Later turds.

Joe
06-17-2009, 10:43 PM
ELLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

never leave again.


your probally gone now aren't you?

ella
06-17-2009, 11:17 PM
I'm here, but i'm getting off so I can read and sleep.

Night guys. Sweet dreams my loving friends. ;)

I'm Hardcore
06-17-2009, 11:20 PM
ella is Einstein harboring the crystal skulls?

Joe
06-17-2009, 11:20 PM
awww :?

bardy
06-18-2009, 12:42 AM
Well time has become a man-made construct and not necessarily within our reality. I mean, Einstein concluded that our view of time is an illusion, but his work has been too abstract to influence the way people in modern cultures usually define time. Not only do we think of time as passing, but we've become increasingly obsessed with this idea.

Our obsession is reflected in our clocks, which have become increasingly precise, with modern clocks there is absolutely no room for human error, since it's set by wireless signals that synchronizes them.

Okay anyways, I could talk about this crap forever.

Nice to be back for a little bit, but I'm not promising I'll be back soon. Maybe tonight....tomorrow...or a month from now.

Later turds.


I was going to respond to ella talking about einstein's theory of relativity, but I don't want to even bother.

ella
06-18-2009, 09:21 PM
ella is Einstein harboring the crystal skulls?

Yeah and he's hired Indiana Jones to protect them!

I'm Hardcore
06-18-2009, 09:42 PM
i knew it. now i know how to save the world


YOUUUU AND IIIIIII MUST FIIIIIIGHT FOR OURRRRRR RIIIIIIIGHT

YOUUU AND IIII MUST FIIIIIGHT TOOOO SURVIIIIIIIIIIIIIVEEEEE

mxzombie
06-18-2009, 10:25 PM
WO IST JONES???

The Omega Concern
06-19-2009, 12:22 AM
errrrmmmm...a thread on 2012 and not a single mention of the reason for the hysteria: it's the year that signifies the end of the Mayan calender.

Now whether they understood something about the cosmos no one else has, or they just ran out of rock to carve out the rest of their calender, only time will tell.

I'm Hardcore
06-19-2009, 04:48 AM
thanks for that in-depth analysis

Sonic Johnny
06-19-2009, 05:20 AM
yeah i was always a big fan of the 'why the fuck not write the 2013 calendar a little closer to the date?' theory

Luke de Spa
06-19-2009, 07:24 AM
with modern clocks there is absolutely no room for human error, since it's set by wireless signals that synchronizes them.
lol

mxzombie
06-19-2009, 07:40 AM
how can something that doesn't exist objectively be prone to any error at all

Travis Meeks
06-19-2009, 07:44 AM
Well according to The Omega Concern it doesn't matter. We're all dead :(

Travis Meeks
06-19-2009, 07:46 AM
I'm gonna bring up the topic of 2012 with my lady friend this evening and try to talk her into anal sex.

Travis Meeks
06-19-2009, 07:51 AM
after extensive research into the Mayan calendar, it just might work

publius clodius
06-19-2009, 07:58 AM
Well time has become a man-made construct and not necessarily within our reality. I mean, Einstein concluded that our view of time is an illusion, but his work has been too abstract to influence the way people in modern cultures usually define time. Not only do we think of time as passing, but we've become increasingly obsessed with this idea.

Our obsession is reflected in our clocks, which have become increasingly precise, with modern clocks there is absolutely no room for human error, since it's set by wireless signals that synchronizes them.

Okay anyways, I could talk about this crap forever.

Nice to be back for a little bit, but I'm not promising I'll be back soon. Maybe tonight....tomorrow...or a month from now.

Later turds.
oh lol i just can't put you on ignore

topleybird
06-19-2009, 09:27 AM
If we're going to keep coming back to ella's post, can someone explain to me how something becomes a man-made construct? Like time used to exist but we broke it and made our own? But this thing we made might not necessarily be in our reality, so what we actually perceive as time is, what, some third option that's neither natural nor man-made?

publius clodius
06-19-2009, 09:35 AM
aether

Travis Meeks
06-19-2009, 09:38 AM
isn't everything we assume to understand a man-made construct?

Caine Walker
06-19-2009, 09:43 AM
seriously. just like mayans.

what a bunch of horseshit.

hnibos
06-19-2009, 10:02 AM
Make a donation to Wikipedia and give the gift of knowledge!
Time
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Time (disambiguation).
The flow of sand in an hourglass can be used to keep track of elapsed time. It also concretely represents the present as being between the past and the future.

Time is a component of the measuring system used to sequence events, to compare the durations of events and the intervals between them, and to quantify the motions of objects. Time has been a major subject of religion, philosophy, and science, but defining it in a non-controversial manner applicable to all fields of study has consistently eluded the greatest scholars.[1]


The Moving Finger writes: and, having writ,
Moves on, nor all thy Piety nor Wit,
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it. … Omar Khayyám


In physics and other sciences, time is considered one of the few fundamental quantities.[2] Time is used to define other quantities – such as velocity – and defining time in terms of such quantities would result in circularity of definition.[3] An operational definition of time, wherein one says that observing a certain number of repetitions of one or another standard cyclical event (such as the passage of a free-swinging pendulum) constitutes one standard unit such as the second, is highly useful in the conduct of both advanced experiments and everyday affairs of life. The operational definition leaves aside the question whether there is something called time, apart from the counting activity just mentioned, that flows and that can be measured. Investigations of a single continuum called spacetime brings the nature of time into association with related questions into the nature of space, questions that have their roots in the works of early students of natural philosophy.

Among prominent philosophers, there are two distinct viewpoints on time. One view is that time is part of the fundamental structure of the universe, a dimension in which events occur in sequence. Time travel, in this view, becomes a possibility as other "times" persist like frames of a film strip, spread out across the time line. Sir Isaac Newton subscribed to this realist view, and hence it is sometimes referred to as Newtonian time.[4][5] The opposing view is that time does not refer to any kind of "container" that events and objects "move through", nor to any entity that "flows", but that it is instead part of a fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which humans sequence and compare events. This second view, in the tradition of Gottfried Leibniz[6] and Immanuel Kant,[7][8] holds that time is neither an event nor a thing, and thus is not itself measurable nor can it be travelled.

Temporal measurement has occupied scientists and technologists, and was a prime motivation in navigation and astronomy. Periodic events and periodic motion have long served as standards for units of time. Examples ******* the apparent motion of the sun across the sky, the phases of the moon, the swing of a pendulum, and the beat of a heart. Currently, the international unit of time, the second, is defined in terms of radiation emitted by caesium atoms (see below). Time is also of significant social importance, having economic value ("time is money") as well as personal value, due to an awareness of the limited time in each day and in human life spans.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Temporal measurement
o 1.1 History of the calendar
o 1.2 History of time measurement devices
* 2 Definitions and standards
o 2.1 World time
o 2.2 Sidereal time
o 2.3 Chronology
* 3 Religion
o 3.1 Linear and cyclical time
o 3.2 Numeric and Divine time
* 4 Philosophy
o 4.1 Time as "unreal"
* 5 Physical definition
o 5.1 Classical mechanics
o 5.2 Modern physics
o 5.3 Spacetime
o 5.4 Time dilation
o 5.5 Relativistic time versus Newtonian time
o 5.6 Arrow of time
o 5.7 Quantised time
* 6 Time and the Big Bang
o 6.1 Speculative physics beyond the Big Bang
* 7 Time travel
* 8 Perception of time
o 8.1 Psychology
o 8.2 Altered states of consciousness
o 8.3 Culture
* 9 Use of time
* 10 See also
o 10.1 Books
o 10.2 Organizations
o 10.3 Miscellaneous arts and sciences
o 10.4 Miscellaneous units of time
* 11 Notes and references
* 12 Further reading
* 13 External links
o 13.1 Perception of time
o 13.2 Physics
o 13.3 Philosophy
o 13.4 Timekeeping
o 13.5 Miscellaneous
* 14 Navigation templates

Temporal measurement

Temporal measurement, or chronometry, takes two distinct period forms: the calendar, a mathematical abstraction for calculating extensive periods of time,[9] and the clock, a concrete mechanism that counts the ongoing passage of time. In day-to-day life, the clock is consulted for periods less than a day, the calendar, for periods longer than a day. Increasingly, personal electronic devices display both calendars and clocks simultaneously. The number (as on a clock dial or calendar) that marks the occurrence of a specified event as to hour or date is obtained by counting from a fiducial epoch—a central reference point.

History of the calendar
Main article: Calendar

Artifacts from the Palaeolithic suggest that the moon was used to calculate time as early as 12,000, and possibly even 30,000 BP.[10]

The Sumerian civilization of approximately 2000 BC introduced the sexagesimal system based on the number 60. 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour – and possibly a calendar with 360 (60x6) days in a year (with a few more days added on). Twelve also features prominently, with roughly 12 hours of day and 12 of night, and 12 months in a year (with 12 being 1/5 of 60).

The reforms of Julius Caesar in 45 BC put the Roman world on a solar calendar. This Julian calendar was faulty in that its intercalation still allowed the astronomical solstices and equinoxes to advance against it by about 11 minutes per year. Pope Gregory XIII introduced a correction in 1582; the Gregorian calendar was only slowly adopted by different nations over a period of centuries, but is today the one in most common use around the world.

History of time measurement devices
Horizontal sundial in Taganrog (1833)
Main article: History of timekeeping devices
See also: Clock

A large variety of devices have been invented to measure time. The study of these devices is called horology.

An Egyptian device dating to c.1500 BC, similar in shape to a bent T-square, measured the passage of time from the shadow cast by its crossbar on a non-linear rule. The T was oriented eastward in the mornings. At noon, the device was turned around so that it could cast its shadow in the evening direction.[11]

A sundial uses a gnomon to cast a shadow on a set of markings which were calibrated to the hour. The position of the shadow marked the hour in local time.

The most precise timekeeping devices of the ancient world were the water clock or clepsydra, one of which was found in the tomb of Egyptian pharaoh Amenhotep I (1525–1504 BC). They could be used to measure the hours even at night, but required manual timekeeping to replenish the flow of water. The Greeks and Chaldeans regularly maintained timekeeping records as an essential part of their astronomical observations. Arab inventors and engineers in particular made improvements on the use of water clocks up to the Middle Ages.[12] In the 11th century, the Chinese inventors and engineers invented the first mechanical clocks to be driven by an escapement mechanism.
A contemporary quartz watch

The hourglass uses the flow of sand to measure the flow of time. They were used in navigation. Ferdinand Magellan used 18 glasses on each ship for his circumnavigation of the globe (1522).[13] Incense sticks and candles were, and are, commonly used to measure time in temples and churches across the globe. Waterclocks, and later, mechanical clocks, were used to mark the events of the abbeys and monasteries of the Middle Ages. Richard of Wallingford (1292–1336), abbot of St. Alban's abbey, famously built a mechanical clock as an astronomical orrery about 1330.[14][15] Great advances in accurate time-keeping were made by Galileo Galilei and especially Christiaan Huygens with the invention of pendulum driven clocks.

The English word clock probably comes from the Middle Dutch word "klocke" which is in turn derived from the mediaeval Latin word "clocca", which is ultimately derived from Celtic, and is cognate with French, Latin, and German words that mean bell. The passage of the hours at sea were marked by bells, and denoted the time (see ship's bells). The hours were marked by bells in the abbeys as well as at sea.
A chip-scale atomic clock

Clocks can range from watches, to more exotic varieties such as the Clock of the Long Now. They can be driven by a variety of means, including gravity, springs, and various forms of electrical power, and regulated by a variety of means such as a pendulum.

A chronometer is a portable timekeeper that meets certain precision standards. Initially, the term was used to refer to the marine chronometer, a timepiece used to determine longitude by means of celestial navigation. More recently, the term has also been applied to the chronometer watch, a wristwatch that meets precision standards set by the Swiss agency COSC.

The most accurate timekeeping devices are atomic clocks, which are accurate to seconds in many millions of years,[16] and are used to calibrate other clocks and timekeeping instruments. Atomic clocks use the spin property of atoms as their basis, and since 1967, the International System of Measurements bases its unit of time, the second, on the properties of caesium atoms. SI defines the second as 9,192,631,770 cycles of that radiation which corresponds to the transition between two electron spin energy levels of the ground state of the 133Cs atom.

Today, the Global Positioning System in coordination with the Network Time Protocol can be used to synchronize timekeeping systems across the globe.

As of 2006[update], the smallest unit of time that has been directly measured is on the attosecond (10−18 s) time scale, or around 1026 Planck times.[17][18][19]

Definitions and standards
Common units of time Unit Size Notes
attosecond 1/1018 s smallest measured time
femtosecond 1/1015 s
picosecond 1/1012 s
nanosecond 1/109 s
microsecond 1/106 s
millisecond 0.001 s
second SI base unit
minute 60 s
hour 60 minutes
day 24 hours
week 7 days Also called sennight
fortnight 14 days 2 weeks
lunar month 27.2–29.5 days Various definitions of lunar month exist.
month 28–31 days
quarter 3 months
year 12 months
common year 365 days 52 weeks + 1 day
leap year 366 days 52 weeks + 2 days
tropical year 365.24219 days average
Gregorian year 365.2425 days average
Olympiad 4 year cycle
lustrum 5 years Also called pentad
decade 10 years
Indiction 15 year cycle
generation 17–25 years approximate
jubilee (Biblical) 50 years
century 100 years
millennium 1,000 years
See also: Time standard and Orders of magnitude (time)

The SI base unit for time is the SI second. From the second, larger units such as the minute, hour and day are defined, though they are "non-SI" units because they do not use the decimal system, and also because of the occasional need for a leap second. They are, however, officially accepted for use with the International System. There are no fixed ratios between seconds and months or years as months and years have significant variations in length.[20]

The official SI definition of the second is as follows:[20][21]

The second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.


At its 1997 meeting, the CIPM affirmed that this definition refers to a caesium atom in its ground state at a temperature of 0 K.[20] Previous to 1967, the second was defined as:

the fraction 1/31,556,925.9747 of the tropical year for 1900 January 0 at 12 hours ephemeris time.


The current definition of the second, coupled with the current definition of the metre, is based on the special theory of relativity, which affirms our space-time to be a Minkowski space.

World time

Time keeping is so critical to the functioning of modern societies that it is coordinated at an international level. The basis for scientific time is a continuous count of seconds based on atomic clocks around the world, known as the International Atomic Time (TAI). Other scientific time standards ******* Terrestrial Time and Barycentric Dynamical Time.

Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is the basis for modern civil time. Since January 1, 1972, it has been defined to follow TAI with an exact offset of an integer number of seconds, changing only when a leap second is added to keep clock time synchronized with the rotation of the Earth. In TAI and UTC systems, the duration of a second is constant, as it is defined by the unchanging transition period of the cesium atom.

Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is an older standard, adopted starting with British railroads in 1847. Using telescopes instead of atomic clocks, GMT was calibrated to the mean solar time at the Royal Observatory, Greenwich in the UK. Universal Time (UT) is the modern term for the international telescope-based system, adopted to replace "Greenwich Mean Time" in 1928 by the International Astronomical Union. Observations at the Greenwich Observatory itself ceased in 1954, though the location is still used as the basis for the coordinate system. Because the rotational period of Earth is not perfectly constant, the duration of a second would vary if calibrated to a telescope-based standard like GMT or UT - in which a second was defined as a fraction of a day or year. The terms "GMT" and "Greenwich Mean Time" are sometimes used informally to refer to UT or UTC.

The Global Positioning System also broadcasts a very precise time signal worldwide, along with instructions for converting GPS time to UTC.

Earth is split up into a number of time zones. Most time zones are exactly one hour apart, and by convention compute their local time as an offset from UTC or GMT. In many locations these offsets vary twice yearly due to daylight saving time transitions.

Sidereal time

Sidereal time is the measurement of time relative to a distant star (instead of solar time that is relative to the sun). It is used in astronomy to predict when a star will be overhead. Due to the rotation of the earth around the sun a sidereal day is 1/366th of a day (4 minutes) less than a solar day.

Chronology
Main article: Chronology

Another form of time measurement consists of studying the past. Events in the past can be ordered in a sequence (creating a chronology), and can be put into chronological groups (periodization). One of the most important systems of periodization is geologic time, which is a system of periodizing the events that shaped the Earth and its life. Chronology, periodization, and interpretation of the past are together known as the study of history.

Religion
Further information: Category:Time and fate deities

In the Old Testament book Ecclesiastes, traditionally ascribed to Solomon (970–928 BC), time (as the Hebrew word עדן, זמן `iddan(time) zĕman(season) is often translated) was traditionally regarded as a medium for the passage of predestined events. (Another word, זמן zman, was current as meaning time fit for an event, and is used as the modern Hebrew equivalent to the English word "time".)
Hindu units of time shown logarithmically

There is an appointed time (zman) for everything. And there is a time (’êth) for every event under heaven–
A time (’êth) to give birth, and a time to die; A time to plant, and a time to uproot what is planted.
A time to kill, and a time to heal; A time to tear down, and a time to build up.
A time to weep, and a time to laugh; A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
A time to throw stones, and a time to gather stones; A time to embrace, and a time to shun embracing.
A time to search, and a time to give up as lost; A time to keep, and a time to throw away.
A time to tear apart, and a time to sew together; A time to be silent, and a time to speak.
A time to love, and a time to hate; A time for war, and a time for peace. – Ecclesiastes 3:1–8

Linear and cyclical time
See also: Time Cycles and Wheel of time

In general, the Judaeo-Christian concept, based on the Bible, is that time is linear, with a beginning, the act of creation by God. The Christian view assumes also an end, the eschaton, expected to happen when Christ returns to earth in the Second Coming to judge the living and the dead. This will be the consummation of the world and time. St Augustine's City of God was the first developed application of this concept to world history. The Christian view is that God is uncreated and eternal so that He and the supernatural world are outside time and exist in eternity. Christian Science defines time as "error" or illusion.

Ancient cultures such as Incan, Mayan, Hopi, and other Native American Tribes, plus the Babylonian, Ancient Greek, Hindu, Buddhist, Jainist, and others have a concept of a wheel of time, that regards time as cyclical and quantic consisting of repeating ages that happen to every being of the Universe between birth and extinction.

Numeric and Divine time

The Greek language denotes two distinct principles, Chronos and Kairos. The former refers to numeric, or chronological, time. The latter, literally "the right or opportune moment," relates specifically to metaphysical or Divine time. In theology, Kairos is qualitative, as opposed to quantitative.

Philosophy
Main articles: Philosophy of space and time and Temporal finitism

The Vedas, the earliest texts on Indian philosophy and Hindu philosophy dating back to the late 2nd millennium BC, describe ancient Hindu cosmology, in which the universe goes through repeated cycles of creation, destruction and rebirth, with each cycle lasting 4,320,000 years. Ancient Greek philosophers, including Parmenides and Heraclitus, wrote essays on the nature of time.[22]

In Book 11 of St. Augustine's Confessions, he ruminates on the nature of time, asking, "What then is time? If no one asks me, I know: if I wish to explain it to one that asketh, I know not." He settles on time being defined more by what it is not than what it is,[23] an approach similar to that taken in other negative definitions.

In contrast to ancient Greek philosophers who believed that the universe had an infinite past with no beginning, medieval philosophers and theologians developed the concept of the universe having a finite past with a beginning. This view is not shared by Abrahamic faiths as they believe time started by creation, therefore the only thing being infinite is God and everything else, including time, is finite.

Newton's belief in absolute space, and a precursor to Kantian time, Leibniz believed that time and space are relational.[24] The differences between Leibniz's and Newton's interpretations came to a head in the famous Leibniz-Clarke Correspondence.

Immanuel Kant, in the Critique of Pure Reason, described time as an a priori intuition that allows us (together with the other a priori intuition, space) to comprehend sense experience.[25] With Kant, neither space nor time are conceived as substances, but rather both are elements of a systematic mental framework that necessarily structures the experiences of any rational agent, or observing subject. Kant thought of time as a fundamental part of an abstract conceptual framework, together with space and number, within which we sequence events, quantify their duration, and compare the motions of objects. In this view, time does not refer to any kind of entity that "flows," that objects "move through," or that is a "container" for events. Spatial measurements are used to quantify the extent of and distances between objects, and temporal measurements are used to quantify the durations of and between events. (See Ontology).

Henri Bergson believed that time was neither a real homogeneous medium nor a mental construct, but possesses what he referred to as Duration. Duration, in Bergson's view, was creativity and memory as an essential component of reality.[26]

Time as "unreal"

In 5th century BC Greece, Antiphon the Sophist, in a fragment preserved from his chief work On Truth held that: "Time is not a reality (hypostasis), but a concept (noêma) or a measure (metron)." Parmenides went further, maintaining that time, motion, and change were illusions, leading to the paradoxes of his follower Zeno.[27] Time as illusion is also a common theme in Buddhist thought,[28] and some modern philosophers have carried on with this theme. J. M. E. McTaggart's 1908 The Unreality of Time, for example, argues that time is unreal (see also The flow of time).

However, these arguments often center around what it means for something to be "real". Modern physicists generally consider time to be as "real" as space, though others such as Julian Barbour in his The End of Time argue that quantum equations of the universe take their true form when expressed in the timeless configuration spacerealm containing every possible "Now" or momentary configuration of the universe, which he terms 'platonia'.[29] (See also: Eternalism (philosophy of time).)

Physical definition
Main article: Time in physics

From the age of Newton up until Einstein's profound reinterpretation of the physical concepts associated with time and space, time was considered to be "absolute" and to flow "equably" (to use the words of Newton) for all observers.[30] The science of classical mechanics is based on this Newtonian idea of time.

Einstein, in his special theory of relativity,[31] postulated the constancy and finiteness of the speed of light for all observers. He showed that this postulate, together with a reasonable definition for what it means for two events to be simultaneous, requires that distances appear compressed and time intervals appear lengthened for events associated with objects in motion relative to an inertial observer.

Einstein showed that if time and space is measured using electromagnetic phenomena (like light bouncing between mirrors) then due to the constancy of the speed of light, time and space become mathematically entangled together in a certain way (called Minkowski space) which in turn results in Lorentz transformation and in entanglement of all other important derivative physical quantities (like energy, momentum, mass, force, etc) in a certain 4-vectorial way (see special relativity for more details).
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Classical mechanics

In classical mechanics Newton's concept of "relative, apparent, and common time" can be used in the formulation of a prescription for the synchronization of clocks. Events seen by two different observers in motion relative to each other produce a mathematical concept of time that works pretty well for describing the everyday phenomena of most people's experience.

Modern physics

In the late nineteenth century, physicists encountered problems with the classical understanding of time, in connection with the behavior of electricity and magnetism. Einstein resolved these problems by invoking a method of synchronizing clocks using the constant, finite speed of light as the maximum signal velocity. This led directly to the result that time appears to elapse at different rates relative to different observers in motion relative to one another.
Two-dimensional space depicted in three-dimensional spacetime. The past and future light cones are absolute, the "present" is a relative concept different for observers in relative motion.

Spacetime
Main article: Spacetime

Time has historically been closely related with space, the two together comprising spacetime in Einstein's special relativity and general relativity. According to these theories, the concept of time depends on the spatial reference frame of the observer, and the human perception as well as the measurement by instruments such as clocks are different for observers in relative motion. The past is the set of events that can send light signals to the observer, the future is the set of events to which the observer can send light signals.

Time dilation
Relativity of simultaneity: Event B is simultaneous with A in the green reference frame, but it occurred before in the blue frame, and will occur later in the red frame.
Main article: Time dilation

"Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once". This quote, attributed variously to Einstein, John Archibald Wheeler, and Woody Allen, says that time is what separates cause and effect. Einstein showed that people travelling at different speeds, whilst agreeing on cause and effect, will measure different time separations between events and can even observe different chronological orderings between non-causally related events. Though these effects are typically minute in the human experience, the effect becomes much more pronounced for objects moving at speeds approaching the speed of light. Many subatomic particles exist for only a fixed fraction of a second in a lab relatively at rest, but some that travel close to the speed of light can be measured to travel further and survive much longer than expected (a muon is one example). According to the special theory of relativity, in the high-speed particle's frame of reference, it exists, on the average, for a standard amount of time known as its mean lifetime, and the distance it travels in that time is zero, because its velocity is zero. Relative to a frame of reference at rest, time seems to "slow down" for the particle. Relative to the high-speed particle, distances seem to shorten. Even in Newtonian terms time may be considered the fourth dimension of motion; but Einstein showed how both temporal and spatial dimensions can be altered (or "warped") by high-speed motion.

Einstein (The Meaning of Relativity): "Two events taking place at the points A and B of a system K are simultaneous if they appear at the same instant when observed from the middle point, M, of the interval AB. Time is then defined as the ensemble of the indications of similar clocks, at rest relatively to K, which register the same simultaneously."

Einstein wrote in his book, Relativity, that simultaneity is also relative, i.e., two events that appear simultaneous to an observer in a particular inertial reference frame need not be judged as simultaneous by a second observer in a different inertial frame of reference.

Relativistic time versus Newtonian time
Views of spacetime along the world line of a rapidly accelerating observer in a relativistic universe. The events ("dots") that pass the two diagonal lines in the bottom half of the image (the past light cone of the observer in the origin) are the events visible to the observer.

The animations visualise the different treatments of time in the Newtonian and the relativistic descriptions. At heart of these differences are the Galilean and Lorentz transformations applicable in the Newtonian and relativistic theories, respectively.

In the figures, the vertical direction indicates time. The horizontal direction indicates distance (only one spatial dimension is taken into account), and the thick dashed curve is the spacetime trajectory ("world line") of the observer. The small dots indicate specific (past and future) events in spacetime.

The slope of the world line (deviation from being vertical) gives the relative velocity to the observer. Note how in both pictures the view of spacetime changes when the observer accelerates.

In the Newtonian description these changes are such that time is absolute: the movements of the observer do not influence whether an event occurs in the 'now' (i.e. whether an event passes the horizontal line through the observer).

However, in the relativistic description the observability of events is absolute: the movements of the observer do not influence whether an event passes the "light cone" of the observer. Notice that with the change from a Newtonian to a relativistic description, the concept of absolute time is no longer applicable: events move up-and-down in the figure depending on the acceleration of the observer.

Arrow of time
Main article: Arrow of time

Time appears to have a direction – the past lies behind, fixed and incommutable, while the future lies ahead and is not necessarily fixed. Yet the majority of the laws of physics don't provide this arrow of time. The exceptions ******* the Second law of thermodynamics, which states that entropy must increase over time (see Entropy); the cosmological arrow of time, which points away from the Big Bang, and the radiative arrow of time, caused by light only traveling forwards in time. In particle physics, there is also the weak arrow of time, from CPT symmetry, and also measurement in quantum mechanics (see Measurement in quantum mechanics).

Quantised time
See also: Chronon

Time quantization is a hypothetical concept. In the modern established physical theories (the Standard Model of Particles and Interactions and General Relativity) time is not quantized.

Planck time (~ 5.4 × 10−44 seconds) is the unit of time in the system of natural units known as Planck units. Current established physical theories are believed to fail at this time scale, and many physicists expect that the Planck time might be the smallest unit of time that could ever be measured, even in principle. Tentative physical theories that describe this time scale exist; see for instance loop quantum gravity.

Time and the Big Bang

Stephen Hawking in particular has addressed a connection between time and the Big Bang. In A Brief History of Time and elsewhere, Hawking says that even if time did not begin with the Big Bang and there were another time frame before the Big Bang, no information from events then would be accessible to us, and nothing that happened then would have any effect upon the present time-frame.[32] Upon occasion, Hawking has stated that time actually began with the Big Bang, and that questions about what happened before the Big Bang are meaningless.[33][34][35] This less-nuanced, but commonly repeated formulation has received criticisms from philosophers such as Aristotelian philosopher Mortimer J. Adler.[36][37]

Scientists have come to some agreement on descriptions of events that happened 10−35 seconds after the Big Bang, but generally agree that descriptions about what happened before one Planck time (5 × 10−44 seconds) after the Big Bang will likely remain pure speculation.

Speculative physics beyond the Big Bang
A graphical representation of the expansion of the universe with the inflationary epoch represented as the dramatic expansion of the metric seen on the left. Image from WMAP press release, 2006.

While the Big Bang model is well established in cosmology, it is likely to be refined in the future. Little is known about the earliest moments of the universe's history. The Penrose-Hawking singularity theorems require the existence of a singularity at the beginning of cosmic time. However, these theorems assume that general relativity is correct, but general relativity must break down before the universe reaches the Planck temperature, and a correct treatment of quantum gravity may avoid the singularity.[38]

There may also be parts of the universe well beyond what can be observed in principle. If inflation occurred this is likely, for exponential expansion would push large regions of space beyond our observable horizon.

Some proposals, each of which entails untested hypotheses, are:

* models including the Hartle-Hawking boundary condition in which the whole of space-time is finite; the Big Bang does represent the limit of time, but without the need for a singularity.[39]
* brane cosmology models[40] in which inflation is due to the movement of branes in string theory; the pre-big bang model; the ekpyrotic model, in which the Big Bang is the result of a collision between branes; and the cyclic model, a variant of the ekpyrotic model in which collisions occur periodically.[41][42][43]
* chaotic inflation, in which inflation events start here and there in a random quantum-gravity foam, each leading to a bubble universe expanding from its own big bang.[44]

Proposals in the last two categories see the Big Bang as an event in a much larger and older universe, or multiverse, and not the literal beginning.

Time travel
Main article: Time travel
See also: Time travel in fiction and Grandfather paradox

Time travel is the concept of moving backwards and/or forwards to different points in time, in a manner analogous to moving through space and different from the normal "flow" of time to an earthbound observer. Although time travel has been a plot device in fiction since the 19th century, and one-way travel into the future is arguably possible given the phenomenon of time dilation in the theory of relativity, it is currently unknown whether the laws of physics would allow time travel to the past. Any technological device, whether fictional or hypothetical, that is used to achieve time travel is known as a time machine.

A central problem with time travel to the past is the violation of causality; should an effect precede its cause, it would give rise to the possibility of temporal paradox. Some interpretations of time travel resolve this by accepting the possibility of travel between parallel realities or universes.

Theory would point toward there having to be a physical dimension in which one could travel to, where the present (i.e. the point that which you are leaving) would be present at a point fixed in either the past or future. Seeing as this theory would be dependent upon the theory of a multiverse, it is uncertain how or if it would be possible to just prove the possibility of time travel.

Perception of time

Psychology
See also: Mental chronometry and Sense of time

This common experience was used to familiarize the general public to the ideas presented by Einstein's theory of relativity in a 1930 cartoon by Sidney "George" Strube:[45][46]

Man: Well, it's like this,—supposing I were to sit next to a pretty girl for half an hour it would seem like half a minute,—
Einstein: Braffo! You haf zee ideah! [sic]
Man: But if I were to sit on a hot stove for two seconds then it would seem like two hours.

A form of temporal illusion verifiable by experiment is the kappa effect,[47] whereby time intervals between visual events are perceived as relatively longer or shorter depending on the relative spatial positions of the events. In other words: the perception of temporal intervals appears to be directly affected, in these cases, by the perception of spatial intervals.

One hour to a six-month-old person would be approximately "1:4368", while one hour to a 40-year-old would be "1:349,440". Therefore an hour appears much longer to a young child than to an aged adult, even though the measure of time is the same.

Altered states of consciousness

Altered states of consciousness are sometimes characterized by a different estimation of time. Some psychoactive substances – such as entheogens – may also dramatically alter a person's temporal judgement. When viewed under the influence of such substances as LSD, psychedelic mushrooms, and peyote, a clock may appear to be a strange reference point and a useless tool for measuring the passage of events as it does not correlate with the user's experience. At higher doses, time may appear to slow down, stop, speed up, go backwards and even seem out of sequence. A typical thought might be "I can't believe it's only 8 o'clock, but then again, what does 8 o'clock mean?" As the boundaries for experiencing time are removed, so is its relevance. Many users claim this unbounded timelessness feels like a glimpse into spiritual infinity. Marijuana, a milder psychedelic, may also distort the perception of time to a lesser degree.[48]

Culture

Culture is another variable contributing to the perception of time. Anthropologist Benjamin Lee Whorf reported after studying the Hopi cultures that: "… the Hopi language is seen to contain no words, grammatical forms, construction or expressions or that refer directly to what we call “time”, or to past, present, or future…"[49]

In Hindi and other Indic languages (such as Urdu, Marathi and Gujarati) there is only one word kal for both yesterday and tomorrow, with the meaning determined by context. In Punjabi, however, (another one of the official languages of India), the word 'kal' means 'yesterday', and the similar sounding 'kalu' stands for 'tomorrow.'

Use of time
See also: Time management and Time discipline

In sociology and anthropology, time discipline is the general name given to social and economic rules, conventions, customs, and expectations governing the measurement of time, the social currency and awareness of time measurements, and people's expectations concerning the observance of these customs by others.

The use of time is an important issue in understanding human behaviour, education, and travel behaviour. Time use research is a developing field of study. The question concerns how time is allocated across a number of activities (such as time spent at home, at work, shopping, etc.). Time use changes with technology, as the television or the Internet created new opportunities to use time in different ways. However, some aspects of time use are relatively stable over long periods of time, such as the amount of time spent traveling to work, which despite major changes in transport, has been observed to be about 20-30 minutes one-way for a large number of cities over a long period of time. This has led to the disputed time budget hypothesis.

Time management is the organization of tasks or events by first estimating how much time a task will take to be completed, when it must be completed, and then adjusting events that would interfere with its completion so that completion is reached in the appropriate amount of time. Calendars and day planners are common examples of time management tools.

Arlie Russell Hochschild and Norbert Elias have written on the use of time from a sociological perspective.

See also
Time portal
Wikipedia:Books has a book on: Time
Time's mortal aspect is personified in this bronze statue by Charles van der Stappen

See the Time navigation templates below for an exhaustive list of related articles.

Books

* A Brief History of Time
* About Time
* An Experiment with Time

Organizations

Leading scholarly organizations for researchers on the history and technology of time and timekeeping

* Antiquarian Horological Society - AHS (United Kingdom)
* Association Française des Amateurs d'Horlogerie Ancienne - AFAHA (France)
* Chronometrophilia (Switzerland)
* Deutsche Gesellschaft für Chronometrie - DGC (Germany)
* HORA Associazione Italiana Cultori di Orologeria Antica (Italy)
* National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors - NAWCC (United States of America)

Miscellaneous arts and sciences

* Anachronistic
* Change
* Date and time notation by country
* List of cycles
* Network Time Protocol (NTP)
* Nonlinear (arts)
* Philosophy of physics
* Rate (mathematics)


Miscellaneous units of time

* Fiscal year
* Half-life
* Hexadecimal time
* Season
* Tithi
* Unix epoch

Notes and references
This article needs additional citations for verification.
Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (July 2008)

1. ^ E. Fitgerald, The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam. (Penguin 1989), Stanza lxxi
2. ^ Duff, Michael J.; Okun, Lev B.; Veneziano, Gabriele (March 2002) (PDF). Trialogue on the number of fundamental constants. Institute of Physics Publishing for SISSA/ISAS. http://jhep.sissa.it/archive/papers/jhep032002023/jhep032002023.pdf. Retrieved on 2008-02-02. p. 17. "I only add to this the observation that relativity and quantum mechanics provide, in string theory, units of length and time which look, at present, more fundamental than any other."
3. ^ Duff, Okun, Veneziano, ibid. p. 3. "There is no well established terminology for the fundamental constants of Nature. … The absence of accurately defined terms or the uses (i.e. actually misuses) of ill-defined terms lead to confusion and proliferation of wrong statements."
4. ^ Rynasiewicz, Robert : Johns Hopkins University (2004-08-12). "Newton's Views on Space, Time, and Motion". Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Stanford University. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/newton-stm/. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "Newton did not regard space and time as genuine substances (as are, paradigmatically, bodies and minds), but rather as real entities with their own manner of existence as necessitated by God's existence... To paraphrase: Absolute, true, and mathematical time, from its own nature, passes equably without relation the [sic~to] anything external, and thus without reference to any change or way of measuring of time (e.g., the hour, day, month, or year)."
5. ^ Markosian, Ned. "Time". in Edward N. Zalta. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Winter 2002 Edition). http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/time/#3. "The opposing view, normally referred to either as “Platonism with Respect to Time” or as “Absolutism with Respect to Time,” has been defended by Plato, Newton, and others. On this view, time is like an empty container into which events may be placed; but it is a container that exists independently of whether or not anything is placed in it.".
6. ^ Burnham, Douglas : Staffordshire University (2006). "Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz (1646-1716) Metaphysics - 7. Space, Time, and Indiscernibles". The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. http://www.iep.utm.edu/l/leib-met.htm#H7. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "First of all, Leibniz finds the idea that space and time might be substances or substance-like absurd (see, for example, "Correspondence with Clarke," Leibniz's Fourth Paper, §8ff). In short, an empty space would be a substance with no properties; it will be a substance that even God cannot modify or destroy.... That is, space and time are internal or intrinsic features of the complete concepts of things, not extrinsic.... Leibniz's view has two major implications. First, there is no absolute location in either space or time; location is always the situation of an object or event relative to other objects and events. Second, space and time are not in themselves real (that is, not substances). Space and time are, rather, ideal. Space and time are just metaphysically illegitimate ways of perceiving certain virtual relations between substances. They are phenomena or, strictly speaking, illusions (although they are illusions that are well-founded upon the internal properties of substances).... It is sometimes convenient to think of space and time as something "out there," over and above the entities and their relations to each other, but this convenience must not be confused with reality. Space is nothing but the order of co-existent objects; time nothing but the order of successive events. This is usually called a relational theory of space and time."
7. ^ Mattey, G. J. : UC Davis (1997-01-22). "Critique of Pure Reason, Lecture notes: Philosophy 175 UC Davis". http://www-philosophy.ucdavis.edu/mattey/kant/TIMELEC.HTM. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "What is correct in the Leibnizian view was its anti-metaphysical stance. Space and time do not exist in and of themselves, but in some sense are the product of the way we represent things. The are ideal, though not in the sense in which Leibniz thought they are ideal (figments of the imagination). The ideality of space is its mind-dependence: it is only a condition of sensibility.... Kant concluded "absolute space is not an object of outer sensation; it is rather a fundamental concept which first of all makes possible all such outer sensation."...Much of the argumentation pertaining to space is applicable, mutatis mutandis, to time, so I will not rehearse the arguments. As space is the form of outer intuition, so time is the form of inner intuition.... Kant claimed that time is real, it is "the real form of inner intuition.""
8. ^ McCormick, Matt : California State University, Sacramento (2006). "Immanuel Kant (1724-1804) Metaphysics : 4. Kant's Transcendental Idealism". The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. http://www.iep.utm.edu/k/kantmeta.htm#H4. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "Time, Kant argues, is also necessary as a form or condition of our intuitions of objects. The idea of time itself cannot be gathered from experience because succession and simultaneity of objects, the phenomena that would indicate the passage of time, would be impossible to represent if we did not already possess the capacity to represent objects in time.... Another way to put the point is to say that the fact that the mind of the knower makes the a priori contribution does not mean that space and time or the categories are mere figments of the imagination. Kant is an empirical realist about the world we experience; we can know objects as they appear to us. He gives a robust defense of science and the study of the natural world from his argument about the mind's role in making nature. All discursive, rational beings must conceive of the physical world as spatially and temporally unified, he argues."
9. ^ Richards, E. G. (1998). Mapping Time: The Calendar and its History. Oxford University Press. pp. 3–5.
10. ^ Rudgley, Richard (1999). The Lost Civilizations of the Stone Age. New York: Simon & Schuster. pp. 86–105.
11. ^ Barnett, Jo Ellen Time's Pendulum: The Quest to Capture Time—from Sundials to Atomic Clocks Plenum, 1998 ISBN 0-306-45787-3 p.28
12. ^ Barnett, ibid, p.37
13. ^ Laurence Bergreen, Over the Edge of the World: Magellan's Terrifying Circumnavigation of the Globe, HarperCollins Publishers, 2003, hardcover 480 pages, ISBN 0-06-621173-5
14. ^ North, J. (2004) God's Clockmaker: Richard of Wallingford and the Invention of Time. Oxbow Books. ISBN 1-85285-451-0
15. ^ Watson, E (1979) "The St Albans Clock of Richard of Wallingford". Antiquarian Horology 372-384.
16. ^ "New atomic clock can keep time for 200 million years: Super-precise instruments vital to deep space navigation". Vancouver Sun. 2008-02-16. http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=e24ccfa7-44eb-40b7-8b67-daf8263569ff. Retrieved on 2008-02-16.
17. ^ "Shortest time interval measured". BBC News. 2004-02-25. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3486160.stm.
18. ^ "Fastest view of molecular motion". BBC News. 2006-03-04. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4766842.stm.
19. ^ "New Scientist article". http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7700. Retrieved on 2008-11-27.
20. ^ a b c Organisation Intergouvernementale de la Convention du Métre (1998) (PDF). The International System of Units (SI), 7th Edition. http://www1.bipm.org/utils/en/pdf/si-brochure.pdf. Retrieved on 2006-06-13.
21. ^ "Base unit definitions: Second". NIST. http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/second.html. Retrieved on 2008-01-09.
22. ^ Dagobert Runes, Dictionary of Philosophy, p. 318
23. ^ St. Augustine, Confessions, Book 11. http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/augustine/Pusey/book11 (Accessed 5/26/07).
24. ^ Gottfried Martin, Kant's Metaphysics and Theory of Science
25. ^ Kant, Immanuel (1787). The Critique of Pure Reason, 2nd edition. translated by J. M. D. Meiklejohn, eBooks@Adelaide, 2004—http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/k/kant/immanuel/k16p/k16p15.html
26. ^ Bergson, Henri (1907) Creative Evolution. trans. by Arthur Mitchell. Mineola: Dover, 1998.
27. ^ Harry Foundalis. "You are about to disappear". http://www.foundalis.com/phi/WhyTimeFlows.htm. Retrieved on 2007-04-27.
28. ^ Tom Huston. "Buddhism and the illusion of time". http://www.buddhistinformation.com/buddhism_and_the_illusion_of_time.htm. Retrieved on 2007-04-27.
29. ^ "Time is an illusion?". http://physicsandphysicists.blogspot.com/2007/03/time-is-illusion.html. Retrieved on 2007-04-27.
30. ^ Herman M. Schwartz, Introduction to Special Relativity, McGraw-Hill Book Company, 1968, hardcover 442 pages, see ISBN 0882754785 (1977 edition), pp. 10-13
31. ^ A. Einstein, H. A. Lorentz, H. Weyl, H. Minkowski, The Principle of Relativity, Dover Publications, Inc, 2000, softcover 216 pages, ISBN 0486600815, See pp. 37-65 for an English translation of Einstein's original 1905 paper.
32. ^ Hawking, Stephen. "The Beginning of Time". University of Cambridge. http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/bot.html. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "Since events before the Big Bang have no observational consequences, one may as well cut them out of the theory, and say that time began at the Big Bang. Events before the Big Bang, are simply not defined, because there's no way one could measure what happened at them. This kind of beginning to the universe, and of time itself, is very different to the beginnings that had been considered earlier."
33. ^ Hawking, Stephen. "The Beginning of Time". University of Cambridge. http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/bot.html. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago."
34. ^ Hawking, Stephen (2006-02-27). "Professor Stephen Hawking lectures on the origin of the universe". University of Oxford. http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/po/news/2005-06/feb/27.shtml. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "Suppose the beginning of the universe was like the South Pole of the earth, with degrees of latitude playing the role of time. The universe would start as a point at the South Pole. As one moves north, the circles of constant latitude, representing the size of the universe, would expand. To ask what happened before the beginning of the universe would become a meaningless question because there is nothing south of the South Pole.'"
35. ^ Ghandchi, Sam : Editor/Publisher (2004-01-16). "Space and New Thinking". http://www.ghandchi.com/312-SpaceEng.htm. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "and as Stephen Hawking puts it, asking what was before Big Bang is like asking what is North of North Pole, a meaningless question."
36. ^ Adler, Mortimer J., Ph.D.. "Natural Theology, Chance, and God". http://radicalacademy.com/adlertheology1.htm. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "Hawking could have avoided the error of supposing that time had a beginning with the Big Bang if he had distinguished time as it is measured by physicists from time that is not measurable by physicists.... an error shared by many other great physicists in the twentieth century, the error of saying that what cannot be measured by physicists does not exist in reality." "The Great Ideas Today". Encyclopaedia Britannica. 1992.
37. ^ Adler, Mortimer J., Ph.D.. "Natural Theology, Chance, and God". http://radicalacademy.com/adlertheology2.htm. Retrieved on 2008-01-10. "Where Einstein had said that what is not measurable by physicists is of no interest to them, Hawking flatly asserts that what is not measurable by physicists does not exist — has no reality whatsoever.
With respect to time, that amounts to the denial of psychological time which is not measurable by physicists, and also to everlasting time — time before the Big Bang — which physics cannot measure. Hawking does not know that both Aquinas and Kant had shown that we cannot rationally establish that time is either finite or infinite." "The Great Ideas Today". Encyclopaedia Britannica. 1992.
38. ^ Hawking, Stephen; and Ellis, G. F. R. (1973). The Large Scale Structure of Space-Time. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-09906-4.
39. ^ J. Hartle and S. W. Hawking (1983). "Wave function of the universe". Phys. Rev. D 28: 2960. doi:10.1103/PhysRevD.28.2960.
40. ^ Langlois, David (2002). Brane cosmology: an introduction. arΧiv:hep-th/0209261.
41. ^ Linde, Andre (2002). Inflationary Theory versus Ekpyrotic/Cyclic Scenario. arΧiv:hep-th/0205259.
42. ^ "Recycled Universe: Theory Could Solve Cosmic Mystery". Space.com. 8 May 2006. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060508_mm_cyclic_universe.html. Retrieved on 2007-07-03.
43. ^ "What Happened Before the Big Bang?". http://www.science.psu.edu/alert/Bojowald6-2007.htm. Retrieved on 2007-07-03.
44. ^ A. Linde (1986). "Eternal chaotic inflation". Mod. Phys. Lett. A1: 81.
A. Linde (1986). "Eternally existing self-reproducing chaotic inflationary universe". Phys. Lett. B175: 395–400.
45. ^ Priestley, J. B. (1964). Man and Time. New York: Crescent Books. pp. 96.
46. ^ Sunrise (2008). "Unified Field Theory: A new interpretation" (PDF). Chapter 2—The Development of the Unified Field Theory, pg. 31. Sunrise Information Services. http://www.sunrisepage.com/uft/history.pdf.
47. ^ Wada Y, Masuda T, Noguchi K, 2005, "Temporal illusion called 'kappa effect' in event perception" Perception 34 ECVP Abstract Supplement
48. ^ "Cannabis Effects". Erowid. http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml. Retrieved on 2008-02-15. "Time sense altered: cars seem like they are moving too fast, time dilation and compression are common at higher doses."
49. ^ Carroll, John B. (ed.)(1956). Language Thought and Reality. Selected Writings of Benjamin Lee Whorf. MIT Press, Boston, Massachusetts. ISBN 0262730065 9780262730068

Further reading

* Barbour, Julian (1999). The End of Time: The Next Revolution in Physics. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-514592-5.
* Das, Tushar Kanti (1990). The Time Dimension: An Interdisciplinary Guide. New York: Praeger. ISBN 0275926818. - Research bibliography
* Davies, Paul (1996). About Time: Einstein's Unfinished Revolution. New York: Simon & Schuster Paperbacks. ISBN 0-684-81822-1.
* Feynman, Richard (1994) [1965]. The Character of Physical Law. Cambridge (Mass): The MIT Press. pp. 108–126. ISBN 0-262-56003-8. http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?ttype=2&tid=5277.
* Galison, Peter (1992). Einstein's Clocks and Poincaré's Maps: Empires of Time. New York: W. W. Norton. ISBN 0-393-02001-0.
* Highfield, Roger (1992). Arrow of Time: A Voyage through Science to Solve Time's Greatest Mystery. Random House. ISBN 0-449-90723-6.
* Mermin, N. David (2005). It's About Time: Understanding Einstein's Relativity. Princeton University Press. ISBN 0-691-12201-6. http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8112.html.
* Penrose, Roger (1999) [1989]. The Emperor's New Mind: Concerning Computers, Minds, and the Laws of Physics. New York: Oxford University Press. pp. 391–417. ISBN 0-19-286198-0. http://www.oup.com/uk/catalogue/?ci=9780192861986.
* Price, Huw (1996). Time's Arrow and Archimedes' Point. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-511798-0. http://www.usyd.edu.au/time/price/TAAP.html.
* Reichenbach, Hans (1999) [1956]. The Direction of Time. New York: Dover. ISBN 0-486-40926-0. http://store.doverpublications.com/0486409260.html.
* Stiegler, Bernard, Technics and Time, 1: The Fault of Epimetheus
* Whitrow, Gerald J. (1973). The Nature of Time. Holt, Rinehart and Wilson (New York).
* Whitrow, Gerald J. (1980). The Natural Philosophy of Time. Clarendon Press (Oxford).
* Whitrow, Gerald J. (1988). Time in History. The evolution of our general awareness of time and temporal perspective. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-285211-6.
* Rovelli, Carlo (2006). What is time? What is space?. Rome: Di Renzo Editore. ISBN 8883231465. http://www.direnzo.it/main.phtml?Language=en&Doc=0001&ISBN=8883231465.
* Charlie Gere, (2005) Art, Time and Technology: Histories of the Disappearing Body, Berg

External links
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* Time at Open Directory

Perception of time

* Time Perception Research at the University of Manchester

Physics

* A walk through Time
* Seven Things You Need To Know About Time

Philosophy

Eastern Philosophy

* The Conceptual Scheme of Chinese Philosophical Thinking - Time
* Flaws in the Mind: The Invention of Time A site exploring J. Krishnamurti's views on psychological time.

Western Philosophy

* Crouch, Will (2006-2008). "Is there a defensible argument for the non-existence of time?". On Philosophy. http://www.onphilosophy.co.uk/time_-_a_dialogue.html. Retrieved on 2008-01-24.
* Dowden, Bradley (California State University, Sacramento) (2007). "Time". in James Fieser, Ph.D., Bradley Dowden, Ph.D.. The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. http://www.iep.utm.edu/t/time.htm. Retrieved on 2008-01-31.
* Le Poidevin, Robin (Winter 2004). "The Experience and Perception of Time". in Edward N. Zalta. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. http://plato.stanford.edu/archives/win2004/entries/time-experience. Retrieved on 2008-01-17.
* Mcdonough, Jeff (Harvard University) (Winter 2007). "Leibniz's Philosophy of Physics". in Edward N. Zalta. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Stanford University. http://plato.stanford.edu/archives/win2007/entries/leibniz-physics/. Retrieved on 2008-01-31.
* Ross, Kelley L., Ph.D. (Los Angeles Valley College). "The Clarke-Leibniz Debate (1715-1716)". The Proceedings of the Friesian School, Fourth Series (1996, 1999, 2001). http://www.friesian.com/space.htm#clarke. Retrieved on 2008-01-17.
* Ross, Kelley L., Ph.D. (Los Angeles Valley College). "Three Points in Kant's Theory of Space and Time". The Proceedings of the Friesian School, Fourth Series (1996, 1999, 2001). http://www.friesian.com/space.htm#kant. Retrieved on 2008-01-17.
* Savitt, Steven, Ph.D. (University of British Columbia) (Fall 2007). "Being and Becoming in Modern Physics". in Edward N. Zalta. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spacetime-bebecome/. Retrieved on 2008-01-17.
* Wilson, Catherine (City University of New York) (Summer 2004). "Kant and Leibniz". in Edward N. Zalta. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Stanford University. http://plato.stanford.edu/archives/sum2004/entries/kant-leibniz/. Retrieved on 2008-01-31.

Timekeeping

* Different systems of measuring time
* UTC/TAI Timeserver
* BBC article on shortest time ever measured
* Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry FH
* American Watchmakers-Clockmakers Institute
* National Association of Watch & Clock Collectors

Miscellaneous

* World Time and Zones
* Exploring Time from Planck Time to the lifespan of the universe
* International Society for the Study of Time

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Etruscan — Nortia · Tinia
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Day: (Dagr · Skinfaxi) · Night: (Nótt · Hrímfaxi) · Seasons: (Sumarr and Vetr) · Old age: Elli

Baltic — Dalia · Lauma
Polish — Sudz
Romanian — Fates: Ursitoare
Other European — Matres and Matrones · Father Time · Beten
Philippine — Kan-Laon
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Categories: Physics | Time | Fundamental physics concepts | Physical quantities
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topleybird
06-19-2009, 12:28 PM
I like to imagine whichever Mayan was in charge of carving out their calendar just up and said one day "You know what guys, I'm fucking sick of carving out years this far in the future. Our grandchildren will be dead in, what, like 100 years? I'm up to goddamn 2012 here. How about we call it a day?" And the other Mayans were like "Shit we meant to tell you you could stop like ages ago"

fluxequalsrad
06-19-2009, 12:56 PM
the 'time is something we created' philosophizing makes me cringe.

shannon
06-19-2009, 01:14 PM
Well time has become a man-made construct and not necessarily within our reality. I mean, Einstein concluded that our view of time is an illusion, but his work has been too abstract to influence the way people in modern cultures usually define time. Not only do we think of time as passing, but we've become increasingly obsessed with this idea.

Our obsession is reflected in our clocks, which have become increasingly precise, with modern clocks there is absolutely no room for human error, since it's set by wireless signals that synchronizes them.

Okay anyways, I could talk about this crap forever.

Nice to be back for a little bit, but I'm not promising I'll be back soon. Maybe tonight....tomorrow...or a month from now.

Later turds.

I'm sorry to quote it again guys, but... LOL!

reprise85
06-19-2009, 02:18 PM
Time exists, but our measurements of it (hours, months, years, etc) are totally man made and don't mean shit. Is that what you guys are trying to say?

talk show host
06-20-2009, 02:01 PM
2012 years after Christ, the year the Mayans think we will die.

Fattening Ass
06-20-2009, 02:23 PM
ten in 2010

wHATcOLOR
06-20-2009, 02:36 PM
Well time has become a man-made construct and not necessarily within our reality. I mean, Einstein concluded that our view of time is an illusion, but his work has been too abstract to influence the way people in modern cultures usually define time. Not only do we think of time as passing, but we've become increasingly obsessed with this idea.

Our obsession is reflected in our clocks, which have become increasingly precise, with modern clocks there is absolutely no room for human error, since it's set by wireless signals that synchronizes them.

Okay anyways, I could talk about this crap forever.

Nice to be back for a little bit, but I'm not promising I'll be back soon. Maybe tonight....tomorrow...or a month from now.

Later turds.

I could talk about this crap forever

Please do!!!

mistle
06-20-2009, 03:22 PM
Time exists, but our measurements of it (hours, months, years, etc) are totally man made and don't mean shit. Is that what you guys are trying to say?

i guess it's that time is just a measurement. of stuff happening, not happening stuff itself

mistle
06-20-2009, 03:26 PM
maybe that's not time. i don't understand these things

bardy
06-20-2009, 04:23 PM
well there is some theory that everything that could happen happens, just in a bunch of different universes. did you guys see that movie Slacker... come on!!!

ella
06-23-2009, 01:57 AM
Well during Einstein's later years, actually during the year of his death he was quoted saying, "People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past and present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."

I mean, although we can experience time differently, depending upon our state of consciousness, different states of consciousness in themselves aren't sufficient to allow us to discard the usual notion of time, these experiences could be explained away as illusions. A new model for time needs physics to support it...and physics does. It says that time isn't constant, but rather varies depending upon one's frame of reference. Physics also supports the idea of timelessness, or that the past, present, and future coexist. I mean what we call "time" is only something that our clocks measure, and there is no independent clock outside the universe that exists as a gold standard for the passage of time. Instead, our experience of time is relative to our frame of reference or individual consciousness.

publius clodius
06-23-2009, 02:04 AM
you're contradicting yourself. you're constantly telling us what you think time really is (as an existing thing) and at the same time you state that it's an illusion.

what then do you mean by illusion?

ohnoitsbonnie
06-23-2009, 02:07 AM
Everything is

ella
06-23-2009, 02:12 AM
Time only exists within one's limited consciousness. In other words, our concept that time exists and is divisible into the past, present, and future arises from how we experience life, rather than being a reflection of a universal reality. It's an illusion, that's just a thought that has occurred to me on occasion, I'm not saying it's fact...just a theory.

ryan patrick
06-23-2009, 02:19 AM
Well during Einstein's later years, actually during the year of his death he was quoted saying, "People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past and present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."


that's just something athiests say to themselves when they're dying so they can think of themselves as having a kind of eternal existence

publius clodius
06-23-2009, 02:21 AM
Time only exists within one's limited consciousness.
great, so does everything else we perceive and structure unconsciously. colours. shapes. your posts.
In other words, our concept that time exists and is divisible into the past, present, and future arises from how we experience life, rather than being a reflection of a universal reality.

that's the human brain alright. (p.s. what is universal reality and how come you know anything about it?)
It's an illusion, that's just a thought that has occurred to me on occasion, I'm not saying it's fact...just a theory.
a thought that just occurs to you is not a theory. and you did nothing to prove that time is anything different from all the other info we have on the outside world.

i'm tempted to say it is though. your logic is just flawed.

ella
06-23-2009, 02:22 AM
that's just something athiests say to themselves when they're dying so they can think of themselves as having a kind of eternal existence


Such a thought can apply to other religious philosophies....you can't pinhole such a thought to one single philosophy such as atheism. Buddhism coincides quite well with his quote.

ryan patrick
06-23-2009, 02:25 AM
also time obviously exists because thermodynamics make no sense without time

ella
06-23-2009, 02:35 AM
that's the human brain alright. (p.s. what is universal reality and how come you know anything about it?)


A universal reality as in what we perceive as a universal law.

Realize that time isn't a universal constant, or something that remains regardless of the conditions under which it is measured. In fact, much of what we thing of as physical constants are only constants under certain conditions. Two examples are the speed of light, which slows down when it travels through water, and the boiling point of water, which decreases at high altitudes. Also, one person might perceive two events as simultaneous, but from another frame of reference the events may be seconds apart. It all depends upon how fast the observer is traveling relative to the location of the two events.

ryan patrick
06-23-2009, 02:46 AM
the speed of light as a "constant" is defined as traveling through a vacuum of course it's different in other conditions

a real constant is absolute zero, tell me how that one is relative

ella
06-23-2009, 02:53 AM
But that's not time, that's just the lowest possible energy state. If you take away all the matter from a defined space and brought it's temperature down to absolute zero. Which is referred to as the zero point field (ZPF)....and well actually scientists expected ZPF to be a vacuum, but to their surprise they discovered that it contained a tremendous amount of energy. Actually energy so great that some physicist said that the energy in a single cubic meter of space is enough to boil all of the world's oceans.

ryan patrick
06-23-2009, 02:54 AM
boiling water isn't time either what the hell are you talking about

ella
06-23-2009, 03:03 AM
I'm suggesting that maybe time isn't a universal constant, and that what many scientists thought to be universal constants (such as the boiling point of water decreasing at high altitudes,) have unexpectedly been proven to be only constant under certain conditions...so I'm proposing that time is not a universal constant, and only assumed to be because of the limited conditions in which we are able to conduct research and experimentation when we have such a vague understanding of time and space.

ryan patrick
06-23-2009, 03:11 AM
uh yes time is subject to relativistic effects but that doesn't make it an illusion.

ryan patrick
06-23-2009, 03:14 AM
and i still submit that the second law of thermodynamics is the best argument against your position.

ella
06-23-2009, 03:25 AM
I'm suggesting that time is an illusion created within our own consciousness. Just as our brains limit our ability to perceive other dimensions and the interconnectivity of our universe (SST,) our brains also influence our perception of time. For example, we may have a dream that seemed to last hours, and indeed would have needed hours for all of the events to have occurred. However, we know from dream studies and our own experiences that such dreams can take place in a matter of minutes. Our internal sense of the passage of time can also vary when awake. In general, the busier and older we are, the faster time appears to go by. People who are highly emotional can experience an even broader variation. Much of this has to do with the function of our Limbic System. Similar to dreaming, heightened emotions cause an increase in our Limbic System's activity, altering our perception of time....intense fear can make the brain think at superspeed so to speak. The heightened activity of the Limbic System and it's effect on the perception of time can even be seen in bipolar disorder. During the panic phase one's thoughts usually speed up....and are the opposite during a depressive phase. Not only do their thoughts speed up though, they often think, talk, and move more slowly, while perceiving everything around them as happening too fast.

Joe
06-23-2009, 03:32 AM
and has not absolute zero been proven not to be a constant?

ella
06-23-2009, 03:34 AM
Yeah, it was proven back in the fucking 40's that it wasn't a universal constant.

ryan patrick
06-23-2009, 04:06 AM
proven by who

and, how can the description of a state of zero entropy not be a constant

ryan patrick
06-23-2009, 04:09 AM
I'm suggesting that time is an illusion created within our own consciousness. Just as our brains limit our ability to perceive other dimensions and the interconnectivity of our universe (SST,) our brains also influence our perception of time. For example, we may have a dream that seemed to last hours, and indeed would have needed hours for all of the events to have occurred. However, we know from dream studies and our own experiences that such dreams can take place in a matter of minutes. Our internal sense of the passage of time can also vary when awake. In general, the busier and older we are, the faster time appears to go by. People who are highly emotional can experience an even broader variation. Much of this has to do with the function of our Limbic System. Similar to dreaming, heightened emotions cause an increase in our Limbic System's activity, altering our perception of time....intense fear can make the brain think at superspeed so to speak. The heightened activity of the Limbic System and it's effect on the perception of time can even be seen in bipolar disorder. During the panic phase one's thoughts usually speed up....and are the opposite during a depressive phase. Not only do their thoughts speed up though, they often think, talk, and move more slowly, while perceiving everything around them as happening too fast.

i don't think anyone can argue to you that our sense of the passage of time is inconstant...

ella
06-23-2009, 02:06 PM
proven by who

and, how can the description of a state of zero entropy not be a constant

Well the concept was first proposed by Einstein and Otto Stern around 1912 or something. Later on in 1948 they realized through the Michelson-Morley experiment that in fact ZPF was a field (that's why they added "field" onto the end, before it was only known was the Absolute Zero Point,) and not a vacuum which was the popular assumption among most scientists before the experiment.

wHATcOLOR
06-23-2009, 02:11 PM
In fact, much of what we thing of as physical constants are only constants under certain conditions. Two examples are the speed of light, which slows down when it travels through water, and the boiling point of water, which decreases at high altitudes.


was that supposed to be insightful? or painfully obvious?

wHATcOLOR
06-23-2009, 02:16 PM
Physics also supports the idea of timelessness, or that the past, present, and future coexist. I mean what we call "time" is only something that our clocks measure, and there is no independent clock outside the universe that exists as a gold standard for the passage of time. Instead, our experience of time is relative to our frame of reference or individual consciousness.


not being a physics expert, and always hungry to learn, i would love to hear you elaborate on this

ella
06-23-2009, 02:38 PM
Maybe I will tonight...if I get on here. Right now i'm late for work.

Bye. ;)

Nimrod's Son
06-23-2009, 02:52 PM
watching morons discuss physics is kind of hilarious

waltermcphilp
06-23-2009, 03:13 PM
someone should call doc brown to shed some light on this.

killtrocity
06-23-2009, 03:39 PM
Time [Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy] (http://www.iep.utm.edu/t/time.htm#H10)

What are we basically saying when we use tenses and say that an event occurred in the past, in the present, or in the future? There are two major answers. One answer is that these distinctions represent objective features of reality that are not captured by the popular block universe approach. This answer takes tenses very seriously and is called the tensed theory of time, or the A-theory in McTaggart's sense of A vs. B. A second answer to the question of the significance of tenses is that they are subjective features of the perspective from which the subject views the universe. Actually this disagreement isn't really about tenses in the grammatical sense, but about the distinctions of past, present, and future which those tenses are used to mark.

On the tenseless theory of time, or the B-theory, whether the birth of Mohammed occurred here depends on the speaker's perspective; similarly, whether the birth occurs now is equally subjective. The proponent of the tenseless view does not deny the importance or coherence of talk about the past but will say it really is talk about our own relation to events. My assertion that Mohammed's birth is a past event might be analyzed as asserting that the birth event happens before the event of my writing this sentence.

This controversy is often presented as a dispute about whether tensed facts exist, with advocates of the tenseless theory objecting to tensed facts such as the fact of Mohammed's having been born. The primary function of tensed facts is to make tensed sentences true. For the purposes of explaining the point, let us uncritically accept the Correspondence Theory of Truth and apply it to the following past tense sentence:

Custer died in Montana.

If we apply the Correspondence Theory directly to this sentence, we would say that

The sentence "Custer died in Montana" is true because it corresponds to the tensed fact that Custer died in Montana.

Opponents of tensed facts argue that the Correspondence Theory should be applied only indirectly. One approach, the classical tenseless approach, argues that the Correspondence Theory should be applied only to the result of analyzing away tensed sentences into equivalent sentences that do not use tenses. They might say that the sentence "Custer died in Montana" has this equivalent "eternal" sentence:

There is a time t such that Custer dies in Montana at time t, and time t is before the time of the writing of the sentence "Custer died in Montana" by me here.

In this analysis, the verb dies is logically tenseless (although grammatically it is present tensed). Applying the Correspondence Theory to this new sentence yields:

The sentence "Custer died in Montana" is true because it corresponds to the tenseless fact that there is a time t such that Custer dies in Montana at time t, and time t is before the time of the utterance (or writing) of the sentence "Custer died in Montana" by me here.

This analysis of tenses without appeal to tensed facts is challenged on the grounds that it can succeed only for utterances or inscriptions, but a sentence can be true even if never uttered or written by anyone. There are other challenges. Roderick Chisholm and A. N. Prior claim that the "is" in the sentence "It is now midnight" is essentially present tensed because there is no translation using only tenseless verbs. Trying to analyze it as, say, "There is a time t such that t = midnight" is to miss the essential reference to the present in the original sentence. The latter sentence is always true, but the original is not, so the tenseless analysis fails. There is no escape by adding "and t is now" because this last indexical still needs analysis, and we are starting a vicious regress.

Chisholm and Prior say that true sentences using the temporal indexical terms "now," "before now," and "happened yesterday" are part of the facts of the world that science should account for, and science fails to do this because it does not recognize them as being real facts. Science so far restricts itself to eternal facts, such as in the Minkowski-like spacetime representation of events. These events are sets of spacetime points. For such events, the reference to time and place is explicit. A Minkowski spacetime diagram displays only what happens before what, but not which time is present time, or past, or future. What is missing from the diagram, say Chisholm and Prior, is some moving point on the time axis representing the observer's "now" as time flows up the diagram.

In the same spirit, Michael Dummett argues that, although you can have a complete description of a set of objects even if you have not said which objects are near and which are far, you cannot have a complete description of those objects without specifying which events are happening now and which are not.

Earlier, Prior [1959] had argued that after a painful event,

one says, e.g., "Thank goodness that's over," and [this]...says something which it is impossible that any use of a tenseless copula with a date should convey. It certainly doesn't mean the same as, e.g., "Thank goodness the date of the conclusion of that thing is Friday, June 15, 1954," even if it be said then. (Nor, for that matter, does it mean "Thank goodness the conclusion of that thing is contemporaneous with this utterance." Why should anyone thank goodness for that?).

D. H. Mellor, who advocates a newer subjective theory of tenses, argues that the truth conditions of any tensed sentence can be explained without tensed facts even if Chisholm and Prior are correct that some tensed sentences can not be translated into tenseless ones. Mellor would say it is not the pastness of the painful event that explains why I say, "Thank goodness that's over." My gladness is explained by my belief that the event is past, plus its being true that the event is past. Tenseless facts can explain all this, he claims. In addition, tenseless sentences can be used to explain the logical relations between tensed sentences: that one tensed sentence implies another, is inconsistent with yet another, and so forth. Then Ockham's Razor is applied. If we can do without essentially tensed facts, then we should say essentially tensed facts do not exist. To summarize, tensed facts were presumed to be needed to account for the truth of tensed talk; but the analysis shows that ordinary tenseless facts are adequate. So, there are no essentially tensed facts, according to Mellor.

I'm Hardcore
06-23-2009, 06:54 PM
i apologise for making this thread

ryan patrick
06-23-2009, 07:06 PM
i apologise for making this thread

it's about time, if there were such a thing

ella
06-23-2009, 09:21 PM
Hey I find this all fairly amusing, I like the thread Matt. I'm not asking anyone to agree with my thoughts, I'm just throwing out a few ideas, and disagree with them if you feel it necessary.

Oh and Nimrod, I don't think anyone on netphoria has the slightest knowledge regarding physics....but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed. I mean shit....look at your posts on the politics board, they make me cringe, but I don't give a rat's ass whether you dish out your thoughts on the subject.

I guess I should just talk about my hair, or the most recent movie I've watched. That sounds like a good fucking time albeit a waste. ;)

wHATcOLOR
06-23-2009, 10:47 PM
Maybe I will tonight...if I get on here. Right now i'm late for work.

Bye. ;)

ok well you're on here. care to elaborate

mxzombie
06-23-2009, 10:52 PM
Oh and Nimrod, I don't think anyone on netphoria has the slightest knowledge regarding physics....pretty sure we have more than a few physics majors, engineers, etc. but most all of them know how silly it sounds to talk about einstein and relativity and in the same breath venture into alternate dimensions and other such topics

ella
06-23-2009, 10:59 PM
ok well you're on here. care to elaborate

Nah I'm too tired and not in the mood. You probably hear that a lot.

wHATcOLOR
06-23-2009, 11:04 PM
cop out

Irrelevant
06-24-2009, 12:46 AM
i am SCIENTIST

ella
06-24-2009, 03:11 AM
Jeez wHATcOLOR, maybe if we have enough time in the morning I'll give you a quickie.

You demand too much of me!

Now goodnight.

kelsome
06-24-2009, 03:39 AM
I'm kind of counting on this happening.

Trotskilicious
06-24-2009, 05:38 PM
Oh and Nimrod, I don't think anyone on netphoria has the slightest knowledge regarding physics....but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed. I mean shit....look at your posts on the politics board, they make me cringe, but I don't give a rat's ass whether you dish out your thoughts on the subject.

god you're so fucking dumb

you need to leave small town ohio already and see the real world where there are actually people who know a thing or two about physics and don't use phrases like "it's just a theory"

lordy lordy lordy

JokeyLoki
06-24-2009, 05:49 PM
and don't use phrases like "it's just a theory"


:rofl:

shannon
06-24-2009, 05:59 PM
and don't use phrases like "it's just a theory"

this too

I'm suggesting that maybe...

bardy
06-24-2009, 06:23 PM
ella is talking about extra-terrestrial (for lack of a better term) physics as if it had some implication on the physics in bumfuck ohio.

Ugly
06-24-2009, 07:03 PM
well there is some theory that everything that could happen happens, just in a bunch of different universes. did you guys see that movie Slacker... come on!!!

No, that was in Star Trek. Nero created an alternate reality when he blew up the U.S.S. Kelvin. Uhura and Spock said so.

ella
06-24-2009, 09:13 PM
ella is talking about extra-terrestrial (for lack of a better term) physics as if it had some implication on the physics in bumfuck ohio.

Hahah you're so judgmental. That my thoughts on physics/consciousness, etc, have anything to do with the state in which I reside in is completely ignorant.

"Extra-terrestrial physics"...yeah I'm quite sure that was for lack of a better word. How about cosmological physics? Does that sound better?

Anyways, why don't you keep to yourself, or at least stop posting about me. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

mxzombie
06-24-2009, 09:16 PM
please, this has nothing to do with hair and makeup.

ella
06-24-2009, 09:29 PM
I guess I'm not allowed to have my own thoughts regarding certain topics. What a sin, to think in an abstract manner, and question certain theories.
Real fast, I'm done with this debate but shortly before Einstein's death he really felt there was something quite incorrect regarding his theory of relativity, but he died before finding the problem, which still exists to this day. Hence, Einstein stating that time was just an illusion. He realized there was a flaw in the theory of relativity, but died before finding the problem.

bardy
06-24-2009, 09:41 PM
ella this has to be a joke, there is no way you are serious right now. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, you trolled us good on this one.

ella
06-24-2009, 09:59 PM
La-di-da
Yes, it was one big ass charade.

I'm going to bed bc I have to wake up early to slip'n slide with Morrissey. Brady I really don't have a problem with you, I just wish you would quit judging me. So that's that. Have a good night.

Trotskilicious
06-25-2009, 06:07 AM
I guess I'm not allowed to have my own thoughts regarding certain topics. What a sin, to think in an abstract manner, and question certain theories.

yeah no you have every right to do so

and we have every right to think you're retarded when you do

Luke de Spa
06-25-2009, 06:59 AM
my thoughts on physics/consciousness
lol

my thoughts on chemistry/religion

idiot

ella
06-25-2009, 09:56 AM
My thoughts on the huge dump that I took on your front porch.

publius clodius
06-25-2009, 10:06 AM
do they resemble the thoughts you've presented in this thread

ella
06-25-2009, 10:12 AM
Well, visually they resemble your deformed head...
Although I was annoyed with Brady for calling me an "Attention seeking slut," she's the only one whom was intelligent enough to realize that I was just pissing throughout this entire thread.
Ha, god.

I took some excerpts out of a lame book that I brought home, and just copied and pasted the BS, and you guys actually thought that those were my opinions on the issue. Jesus.
Hey, it worked though.....and it gave a few of you some entertainment for a couple days and even some shit to bitch about. =) So I'm glad I could help.

publius clodius
06-25-2009, 10:19 AM
so basically you couldn't even think up the shit you posted yourself

ella
06-25-2009, 10:25 AM
No, it was just a bunch of crap that I read in some dumbass book that I thought was full of a bunch of bs....so I thought I would pull it off, ya know.... see if you guys would flip out when I posted the bullshit....and of course you netphorians, oh you never let me down.

mxzombie
06-25-2009, 10:40 AM
classic backpedaling. nobody believes you.

hnibos
06-25-2009, 10:43 AM
i think shes being sarcastic

publius clodius
06-25-2009, 10:43 AM
she's just copying from a book again

ella
06-25-2009, 10:47 AM
Eh I don't care. The book's title, "The ESP Enigma : The Scientific Case For Psychic Phenomena," written by Diane Hennacy Powell, M.D.
My sister had to use it for some paper in one of her psychology courses. I picked it up, skimmed it....and figured it would be some great shit to use against whomever made that first post regarding time. In fact, it was just great fucking timing.

shannon
06-25-2009, 10:50 AM
classic backpedaling. nobody believes you.

.

hnibos
06-25-2009, 10:52 AM
and figured it would be some great shit to use against whomever made that first post regarding time. In fact, it was just great fucking timing.

hehehe

ella
06-25-2009, 10:59 AM
One really interesting thing that caught my eye in the book was the excerpt about the "Jim Twins," Okay here it is-

"The Jim Twins had been separated at four weeks of birth and were apart for 39 years. Both were named Jim by their adoptive parents, both married a woman named Linda, divorced, and then remarried another woman both named Betty. However, one Jim was on his 3rd marriage. They both had childhood dogs named Toy and sons named James. One son was James Allen and the other James Alan. They both had been firemen and sheriffs. Among the most remarkable shared details was that both had had a compulsion to build a circular white bench around a tree in their yards during the time right before they met. Their facial expressions, IQs, habits, brain waves, and handwriting were nearly identical. TO TOP IT ALL OFF, THEY DIED FROM THE SAME ILLNESS ON THE EXACT SAME DAY!"

Ewww Booga Booga.

ella
06-25-2009, 11:00 AM
hehehe

hehehehe I know...that made me chiggle while typing it.

T&T
09-20-2012, 02:33 PM
BUMP

Shallowed
09-20-2012, 02:46 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/2012.png

Future Boy
09-20-2012, 02:48 PM
I miss ella

JokeyLoki
09-20-2012, 03:30 PM
Was Ella the one that was going to write the astrophysics book with a bachelors in English, or was that someone else? I wonder how that's going.

Order 66
09-20-2012, 03:57 PM
no i remember her being really dumb. but i could be thinking of somebody else too

Eulogy
09-20-2012, 03:59 PM
Was Ella the one that was going to write the astrophysics book with a bachelors in English, or was that someone else? I wonder how that's going.

i seem to vaguely remember this but i wanna say it was a dude

i don't think ella had a bachelor's degree. could be wrong though.

Future Boy
09-20-2012, 04:05 PM
ilikeplanets

Eulogy
09-20-2012, 04:06 PM
oh shit i think you're right

sorry ilp, i don't know why i thought it was a dude (still a really dumb idea though : x).