it's pretty sad how much Bill fell off with that one.

Don't you think the inferiority of Zeitgeist has been discussed enough?

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http://forums.netphoria.org/smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-discussion/160532-billy-really-mailed-vocals-zeitgeist.html

the album sucked, plain and simple, but the songs sound great live so its not the songs themselves that sucked, just the production.

I like this album... sure it's not perfect, but I can enjoy it quite a bit.

Even I'm a bit tired of this topic.

i dont really want to talk about this anymore, but if you listen to everything billy has released in order, zeitgeist, at the very least, makes sense.

he made the st. anger, it's just too bad he's not willing to try for the death magnetic

he made the st. anger, it's just too bad he's not willing to try for the death magnetic

well, who knows? By the way the new songs sound, it could very well be a strong album coming in the horizon.

btw, zeitgeist is muuuuch better than st. anger.

the album sucked, plain and simple, but the songs sound great live so its not the songs themselves that sucked, just the production.

I don't know how much of this is true. It's a very manufactured sound with no subtlety. Everything is polished and brought to the forefront. It always baffles me when artists are given expensive studios to record and don't even begin to explore the studio aside from the obvious modern rock radio sound. There's so much creativity that goes beyond songwriting. Whats the point of calling your album Zeitgeist and then do everything that's done before in the past 20 years

btw, zeitgeist is muuuuch better than st. anger.

Such lofty standards being set here.

well, who knows? By the way the new songs sound, it could very well be a strong album coming in the horizon.

btw, zeitgeist is muuuuch better than st. anger.

they sound fine now but the longer billy takes to record them, the more i worry

yes it is better than st. anger musically but by pumpkins standards it's no better

Such lofty standards being set here.

just defending the Z...
:eek:

(I always end up being the advocate of lost causes :cry:)

Zeitgeist is an incredible album if you actually listen to it.

Comparing albums is for the retarded.

It's subjective. I'd rather listen to Zeitgeist over Gish or Siamese Dream any day. The Pumpkins have a very divided fanbase - no doubt due to the fact that Billy's songwriting is quite diverse,and the albums are relatively different from each other. Everything I love about the Pumpkins is in Zeitgeist. It's not their best work, but it's not a waste of sound as some people say. Put Gish, Adore, and Machina side by side and they sound like completely different bands (apart from Billy's voice). I can't stand Gish, really like Adore and absolutely love Machina. That's the Pumpkins. If people like it you can't say it 'sucked plain and simple'.

^^ holy shit check this guy out

i wouldn't say any day but certainly many days.

i wouldn't say any day but certainly many days.

wtf? there are many days you'd rather listen to zeitgeist than SD?

yes dear.

The only time I ever listen to Zeitgeist is to see if I can make it grow on me.

Kinda like "If you love something, set it free; if it returns, it's yours"

I forget, tcm do you like Neverlost?

one of my faves.

If Zeitgeist was the push, American Gothic was the fall.
But really, go find some other music to listen to... there really is nothing more to be said about this. It isn't worth the effort, only for those delusionals out there.

the album sucked, plain and simple, but the songs sound great live so its not the songs themselves that sucked, just the production.
yeah.


If I sit down & listen to any of the live recordings of zeit songs and then listen to zeitgeist, it's pretty shame how much Billy has ruined what would have been an awesome, if not great, album.


listen especially to the secret acoustic show at castle in germany and again acoustic performance at artist confidential, as well as normal live shows in electric.

http://static.flickr.com/88/267155238_454627964f_o.jpg

The only time I ever listen to Zeitgeist is to see if I can make it grow on me.

Kinda like "If you love something, set it free; if it returns, it's yours"

awesome, it is just like what I do for Z lol
...but it doesnt grow more I feel...

St. Anger is a ton better than Zeitgeist.

You should become a music journalist with such an impressive command of english, and such indepth reviews.

Zeitgeist > Machina 1

It's really not that bad of an album songwise. Once more however it suffers from what seems to be Billy's obsession with putting the entire recording in the red (LOUD), and then it going into overdrive through the mastering process.

American Gothic shows promise, very clean recording.

St. Anger is a ton better than Zeitgeist.

This wins the award for the stupidest fucking thing ive ever heard. St Anger isnt listenable for a corpse. Its that bad.

This wins the award for the stupidest fucking thing ive ever heard. St Anger isnt listenable for a corpse. Its that bad.

Does it make you really mad? Do you feel the world shake? Like an earthquake? Are you madly in anger?

Zeitgeist > Machina 1

Stand Inside Your Love
Wound
Glass and the Ghost Children
Age of Innonense
With Every Light
Sacred and Profane
HHM
Crying Tree of Mercury

are all better songs then anything on Zietgest

Yeah I don't get people who actually think Zeitgeist is better than Machina.

I mean do they have ears?

Stand Inside Your Love
Wound
Glass and the Ghost Children
Age of Innonense
With Every Light
Sacred and Profane
HHM
Crying Tree of Mercury

are all better songs then anything on Zietgest


thats all true
but at least Zeitgeist didn't use any fucking WALL OF SOUND production.

he needs to rerelease Machina remastered. like the beatles with 'let it be..naked'

its really difficult to listen to machina on full volume because it all sounds like static.
then again, its really difficult to listen to zeitgeist loud because billy's voice breaks glass

let it be naked was horrible and zeitgeist still has wall of sound production. theres a million billy corgans singing everything.

let it be naked was horrible and zeitgeist still has wall of sound production. theres a million billy corgans singing everything.

billy did with his voice on zeitgeist what he did with guitars on Siamese dream.


with the opposite results:erm:

my biggest issue with the vocals on zeitgeist isnt the production, but its the quality of the takes he used to overdub and harmonize. half the singing on that album is horribly out of tune. although i still enjoy zeitgeist as a whole.

He wasn't used to it after not working with SP for 7 years, etc.

my biggest issue with the vocals on zeitgeist isnt the production, but its the quality of the takes he used to overdub and harmonize. half the singing on that album is horribly out of tune. although i still enjoy zeitgeist as a whole.

horrifically out of tune.

Yeha, I really like Zeitgeist a lot, but there are some spots that could sure use some auto-tuning. I think the vocals on That's The Way suffer a lot. Billy seems to want to hit notes out of his range, and so he kinda glides up to them and it sounds like balls.

He should just scream the high notes like back in the mellon collie days, love it when billy does that live.

thats all true
but at least Zeitgeist didn't use any fucking WALL OF SOUND production.

he needs to rerelease Machina remastered. like the beatles with 'let it be..naked'

its really difficult to listen to machina on full volume because it all sounds like static.
then again, its really difficult to listen to zeitgeist loud because billy's voice breaks glass

You should listen to the premasters.

Here's a link to the FLACs (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BTQWTJ49)

i quite enjoyed live renditions of machina songs

glass + ghost children is fantastic live
wound way better live
HMM (old way) way better live
I of M sounded good on the album and live
age of innocence was great live.

Honestly, after all the wreckages in the last 10 years, I think Zeitgeist is an rather good album.
With Gossamer, Lucky 13, Superchrist from this era, I think that Zetgeist era is their best time along with Adore and MCIS IMO.

Lucky 13

Oh jeez..

but the songs sound great live so its not the songs themselves that sucked, just the production.

i think this statement is more applicable to Adore and MACHINA than Zeitgeist.

live Zeitgeist > Zeitgeist
live Adore >>> Adore
live Arising! era Machina >>> Machina