the review of 'if all goes wrong' at pumpknins.net mentions Billy suddenly finding inspiration one morning and writing the Rose March on a piano and asking the cameraman to film it incase he forgets it... also, on 'a day in the life' on pumpkins myspace billy is shown coming up with the melody for the Rose March on morning before a residency show...

what i don't get is.. the Rose March was played by Billy in Nov 2006 at the show he did with pete townsend. pete even asked billy if the song was gonna be on zeitgeist and when billy said no, pete said he was crazy.

so how can billy be shown writing the song for the residencies when it was already and had been played live? Did he think that no-one would notice and that he could show himself writing a great song spontaneously on the documentary even though it was already written?

am i wrong with this one? has this been discussed?

the Rose March was not written during the residencies but it is being suggested that it was!

hmm, well observed.

are you sure about him playing it on pete's show though? i thought he just played the acoustic songs for that movie If a Man Falls in the Woods?

i can't remember where i read the interview... but i am 100% certain billy discussed the Rose March being played at the pete townsend show, pete saying he was crazy for leaving it off the album, then billy admitting that pete was probably right.

FRAUD.

I've heard that too. Nice spottin. I remember him sayin' you'd be mad not to put it on the album. Or was it that he wasn't going to put it on American Gothic? Hmm... now I'm confused.

there was some press release passed out that said the rose march saw it's debut at the pete townshend show. billy told the audience at the first show it was played live amd that he wrote it that day/day before.

HOWEVER, i could have sworn that review cited him as writing it on piano during the EAST COAST residency. if that is true, this wraps him up in so much nonsense over this fucking song.

hmmm

He probably just wrote the end part (i'll lay...) at the residencies or something like that.

i have no doubt that billy wrote this song in 2006 and because it remained relatively unknown to the fanbase (no recordings of townsend gig) he thought he'd try and pass it off as a song written during the residencies.

its classic song-writer, rock-star behaviour... all musicians love to sell the idea that they can write great songs in 5 minutes when inspiration hits. they'll often claim that they've come up with something on the spot when really they've had the idea for a long long time and worked on it by thenselves for a long long time before presenting it to bandmates or fans... its an ego thing.

the billster's been caught out this time... i bet you 'peace & love' wasn't written in san francisco either. the truth: billy knew that they'd be playing residencies in san francisco and therefore set about writting a song for the city long before the pumpkins arrived there. nothing comes easily not even for billy boy.

come to think of it.. i really wish those first zwan gigs weren't recorded... billy could've held onto chrysanthemum, empty sea, glorious etc and claimed thme as songs written for zeitgeist. we would've got a much better album for the pumpkins return.. fuck you tapers!!!!!!

it's all part of the mystery!

come to think of it.. i really wish those first zwan gigs weren't recorded... billy could've held onto chrysanthemum, empty sea, glorious etc and claimed thme as songs written for zeitgeist. we would've got a much better album for the pumpkins return.. fuck you tapers!!!!!!

no way he would have butchered those songs in zeitgeist era.

i'm glad we have the 4 piece zwan recordings, it's the best thing BC related since SP broke up (probably even a bit before that too)

:confused:

just ask Billy.

or ask Townsend.

was "show" wasnt it? so there must have been audiences. just ask them.

no recording of the show? how come.:think:

Did anyone ever get a copy of that show he did with Pete Townsend? Don't think I ever saw a video of it.

set list of the show at hotel cafe was below;
*songs out of order

something in the air - with Pete Townshent
shangra-la
if all goes wrong
angel dust and lightning strikes
again again again

so, may be not actual the same song? or the song title has changed after that??

not the interview i mentioned but it is further confirmation...

http://hipstersunited.com/blog/archives/category/bands_and_personalities/pete-townshend

BINGO! here it is... i love you bill you FUCKING FRAUD

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=87032

“If all goes wrong” was also played in 2006? Interesting.

I would not be surprised if he wrote “the rose march” and “if all goes wrong” back then. I’m guessing he drastically changed the songs to make them what they are now and that is why he is claiming that he wrote them during the residencies. Even the AG version of “the rose march” sounds different from what he did live. Shangra-la is listed on the credits of “if a man falls” so that song or “angel dust and lightning strikes” could have been an early working of what later would become “the rose march”.

BINGO! here it is... i love you bill you FUCKING FRAUD

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=87032

no good
we need an article from 2006 time about the song...
hindsight is no worth news.

busted.

call me an apologist but I think the writer of the article made a mistake and attributed the playing of the song AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN to rose march. I think this is the song that Pete thought he should put on the album and he didn't.

Errors like this aren't that uncommon.

I really do not think billy would fake writing the rose march from scratch during the residencies just to show he could write a song that quick.

Perhaps it was only the working title for another song?
Some artists keep names but discard songs etc

I’m pretty sure that the source of that article first appeared on the o-site before it ever reached blabber. Not to mention he claimed that he played the song several times on tour in the article, againx3 was never played live at that point.

call me an apologist but I think the writer of the article made a mistake and attributed the playing of the song AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN to rose march. I think this is the song that Pete thought he should put on the album and he didn't.

Errors like this aren't that uncommon.

call me an apologist but i had the same thought when this first came up. maybe after Billy mentioned performing The Rose March on tour, he went on to talk about playing Again at Townshend's thing, and the writer didn't realize he had changed subjects.

I’m pretty sure that the source of that article first appeared on the o-site before it ever reached blabber. Not to mention he claimed that he played the song several times on tour in the article, againx3 was never played live at that point.

I think the quote is correct about rose march being played at the residency shows. The next part is the questionable part.

This kind of thing doesn't really bother me. I would say the reviewer probably muffed up his songs or dates. Like someone said, we don't even know what the 2006 Rose March sounded like because of the lack of tapers. It could be a different version.

I think what happened here is that the songs (“if all goes wrong” and “the rose march”) were probably completely different than what they ended up being musically and lyrically. I don’t think he lied; I think he might have meant that “the rose march” really came together at the sf residency.

I'm not so sure if that article on pitchfork was accurate... I mean, I was at the show in Fillmore that they played The Rose March for the first time. And previously that morning Billy was writing it or at least practicing it in his hotel room. Remember all that footage I edited for Day in the Life of the Pumpkins?? It was that morning. The song could be a mish-mash of old ideas though that finally saw the light of day as the Rose March.

http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost.php?p=3172477&postcount=8

I feel the need to drop in (though I think the Media Militia quote more or less concurs with what I have to say). As a poet (and anyone who partakes seriously in the writing process knows this also), pieces come together over time. A line here, a line there. Perhaps an arbitrary section is edited to fit within the context of a given piece. It is revised up until the second it's published (or, in Billy's case, recorded) and even then, for some, it's not yet complete. Billy, as an artist who is seldom satisfied with the static (or just in general), historically has been known to alter things constantly, to add pieces, to play with the perceived meaning of a given thing. Besides, seldom does one (even the most brilliant among us) sit and write a work of unparalleled genius in one shot. And I don't really think any of these quotes are particularly saying that Billy sat down and wrote The Rose March. It was something that was there, in idea, and constantly developing in materialization.

Did anyone ever get a copy of that show he did with Pete Townsend? Don't think I ever saw a video of it.

it's not available (yet), the lazy bastards havent got round to releasing it, which is a pain as the earlier shows are available to download as dvds.

example:
DVD Video
(NTSC) In The Attic Show/Hide More Details In The Attic 2005-11-23 Season 1 Episode 10 Ratio Free 4.32 Gb PRICE $10.00 USD

i'm assuming 2006-11-17 is season 2. i messaged the admin of the board ages ago, and they said they might be released eventually. if they do though, they will appear on this site
http://www.longliverock.org/downloads/torrents-ppd2buy.php

I feel the need to drop in (though I think the Media Militia quote more or less concurs with what I have to say). As a poet (and anyone who partakes seriously in the writing process knows this also), pieces come together over time. A line here, a line there. Perhaps an arbitrary section is edited to fit within the context of a given piece. It is revised up until the second it's published (or, in Billy's case, recorded) and even then, for some, it's not yet complete. Billy, as an artist who is seldom satisfied with the static (or just in general), historically has been known to alter things constantly, to add pieces, to play with the perceived meaning of a given thing. Besides, seldom does one (even the most brilliant among us) sit and write a work of unparalleled genius in one shot. And I don't really think any of these quotes are particularly saying that Billy sat down and wrote The Rose March. It was something that was there, in idea, and constantly developing in materialization.

I agree. One example of this is during Billy's first performance (09-17-2003 (http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Bc2003-09-17)) after Zwan (part of his poetry endeavor), he performed a different lyrical version of "I Held a Rose" (previously performed at the Hideout during the Zwan-era), which later became "White Lights" (from the Chicago Songs).

I recently heard this recording and picked up on this fact as an early incarnation of "White Lights".