and what it has become.

half assed nostalgia act with half the original members missing and suing whoever they can to get their monies.

Why so serious?

the personalities in the band, soap opera between them, sure whatever....its as lame as ever. but the music is still good and so are the live performances. sure the strength of the back catalog may be carrying them more than ever, but they're writing new music. and more new music. and more new music.

this ain't no ratm, stp, police, genesis or some other nostalgia act.

this is SP pressing forward and dealing with all the shit. like NIN and others are doing. rock is fuckign pathetic nowadays. no rock act can even sustain more than 1 good album (maybe an ep and an album). let the veterans musicians make music, and fuck the other bullshit.

solution: see more shows, listen to more music, and read less blogs and online news articles.

the personalities in the band, soap opera between them, sure whatever....its as lame as ever. but the music is still good and so are the live performances. sure the strength of the back catalog may be carrying them more than ever, but they're writing new music. and more new music. and more new music.

this ain't no ratm, stp, police, genesis or some other nostalgia act.

this is SP pressing forward and dealing with all the shit. like NIN and others are doing. rock is fuckign pathetic nowadays. no rock act can even sustain more than 1 good album (maybe an ep and an album). let the veterans musicians make music, and fuck the other bullshit.

solution: see more shows, listen to more music, and read less blogs and online news articles.

i have been listening to a lot of the music and if you call that pressing forward then you need to be listening to a hell of a lot more than just fucking SP.

jimmy needs to quit SP and continue pressing forward with his own evolving musicianship and put the complex back together. that had integrity, the only member of the band with any musical integrity left. corgan ran out of ideas years ago. nothing new, exciting or fresh coming out of him.

old has been whose more concerned with his relevance than he is with his development into musical maturity. ditching the djali and chicago songs material is a prime example of this.

really? because it sounds to me like you are the one who is focusing on relevance. all relevance is, is a long term version of what you're seeing on itunes right now. a sustained blip amongst the world's radar.

continuing to make music, and playing out, and pleasing the fans with some things that may seem gimmicky like gish era tour runs....whats wrong with that? it has artistic integrity and does justice to all the old stuff. nothing is being pissed on. were you payign attention to hummer or silverfuck last year? Local H, Ween, nin and many others..... ken andrews, jeremy enigk, priums....many quality veteran bands with followigns are doing it because they realize the mainstream is total bullshit right now. there's good bands all over, but no one will get this so-called "relevance" without being true to what they want to do.

them staying true to their music, and playing shit as slow, fast, wrong or weird as they please is what this band was always about. even the spirit of songs like superchrist and gosamer, which are repetitive jams and all that :rolleyes: have really captured a legit creative energy in the band.

you piss on the new stuff cuz you don't like it, and yet you say that dipping older makes them overly nostalgic. so what are you lookign for paranoid? just let it be, and don't worry so much about relevance. enjoy SP amongst your catalog of good music and drop the unreachable standards. it will never be GISH, SD, MCIS again. deal.

complex was ceratainly great, but the drumming on zeitgeist crushes it. sure, more song-writign from him would be awesome, i hope to see those collaborations in SP some day. jc will do what he wants. i certainly don't see stunning performances with SP as a drawback for the guy.

you are one funny guy davin!


but the music is still good and so are the live performances.

uh, no.


sure the strength of the back catalog may be carrying them more than ever, but they're writing new music. and more new music. and more new music.

really? cause it seems like the multiple announcements they've made put their output at one new song in 3+ months

this ain't no ratm, stp, police, genesis or some other nostalgia act.

it's really not that different if you are honest about it

this is SP pressing forward and dealing with all the shit. like NIN and others are doing.

what does that even mean

rock is fuckign pathetic nowadays.

everyone says this, always. but it's not really true


no rock act can even sustain more than 1 good album (maybe an ep and an album). let the veterans musicians make music, and fuck the other bullshit.

f all the other bs. what does that mean

solution: see more shows, listen to more music, and read less blogs and online news articles.

this coming from the RSS master, who just posted a thread about an online news article featuring jim's real estate transactions

haha did he really say all that.

really? because it sounds to me like you are the one who is focusing on relevance. all relevance is, is a long term version of what yuou're seeing on itunes right now. a sustained blig amogst the world's drones.

now you are making bad assumptions. don't do that.

continuing to make music, and playing out, and pleasing the fans with some things that may seem gimmicky like gish era tour runs....whats qwrong with that? Local H, Ween, nin and many ken andrews, jeremy enigk....many bands from the 90's with followigns are doing it because they realize the mainstream is total bullshit right now. there's good bands all over, but no one will get this so-called "relevance".

relevance to me is a group or musician who continually grows, who steps it up from the previous effort (or takes the previous effort and adds a new twist to that). It's not about popularity, sales, milking the fans of their treasured memories. doing a gish tour is going against something billy had said way back in 2000 "it was a specific time and it'd be insulting to that particular time to try and repeat it."

sure they are creating new material, but it hasn't held up at all.. hell even billy seemed to lose faith in it as the tour wore on, half the record was dropped completely from the setlist by the fall of 2007 and all billy can do was complain that no one was listening to the new record.

staying true to your music, and playing shit as slow, fast, wrong or weird as you please is what this band was always about. even the spirit of songs like superchrist and gosamer, which are repetitive jams and all that :rolleyes: have really captured a legit creative energy in the band.

I highly enjoyed those two songs. the band is capable of making something special still yet they choose to exclude the better material from the new record and go with the material that is safe and gives them a shot at surviving in the current market (tarantula is a modern pumpkins twist on what was popular in modern rock radio in 2007, BTO was the standard SP song that coulda been on any album blah blah blah). but SC and Gossamer to me seemed to come from a place that was a bit more honest.. almost like jimmy and billy wrote them rather quickly by just playing naturally.

you piss on the new stuff cuz you don't like it, and yet you say that dipping older makes them overly nostalgic. so what are you lookign for paranoid? just let it be, and don't worry so much about relevance. enjoy SP amongst your catalog of good music and drop the unreachable standards. it will never be GISH, SD, MCIS again. deal.

the energy that they play the old material with is almost insulting to the energy they played it with between 91-99. there are no unreachable standards here, it just doesn't register as honest to me anymore and i've grown out of the music quite a bit.

complex was ceratainly great, but the drumming on zeitgeist crushes it. sure, more song-writign from him would be awesome, i hope to see those collaborations in SP some day. jc will do what he wants. i certainly don't see stunning performances with SP as a drawback for the guy.

his drumming is the only decent thing about zeitgeist, but im going to disagree with the drumming crushing the complex material. for the most part, his drumming is limited to billy's writing style, which has not evolved a whole hell of a lot in the past few years. with billy mohler, he was given the chance to discover new avenues and challenges with his playing, and it shows. I want to see more of that, i want to see how far jimmy can go as far as integrating a multitude of genres/styles are concerned, and the possibilites are there with the complex. with SP, he's stuck in the rock drummer role. If anything, the complex has helped him to evolve in this particular role. (i'm not denying his drumming in anyway, i love the mans playing). corgans lucky to have him, that's all i can say.. I wont deny drum tracks like US or Superchrist, two songs that wouldn't be worthwhile if it wasn;t for his presence.

you are one funny guy davin!

uh, no.

really? cause it seems like the multiple announcements they've made put their output at one new song in 3+ months

it's really not that different if you are honest about it


what does that even mean


everyone says this, always. but it's not really true




f all the other bs. what does that mean



this coming from the RSS master, who just posted a thread about an online news article featuring jim's real estate transactions

its not good cuz you say it isn't? ok. :rolleyes: i'm sure the musicianship and talent you hear means nothing.

who gives afuck about 3 months, you impatient bitch. they've been workign their assesoff with rehearsals and touring and keeping busy either writing, recording, or doing something productive and band-relatd since the comeback.

sorry to break it to you, but making NEW music is a huge difference. artistically and in other ways. not my fault if you don't give a shit enough to listen to the new stuff and woudl rather focus on the gossip and otehr bullshit.

rock is pathetic. why are the same rock headliners headlining festivals and shit when there's been a total changingin of the guard in hip hop and electronica? why can';t any band (interpol, bloc party, my morning jacket, vampire weekend, against me) do anything more than put out a brief period of attention? there's good bands out there, but most are being ignored. like SP, biatch.

f the bs means stop focusing on the inconsequential celebrity gossip grovery store rag shit, and just enjoy or hate the music based on its merits, not on outside shit that doesn't matter. glad to see you've been brainwashed by the journalists. and now i see why they sell so many magazines.

the news article was silly, but an excuse to mention the new studio wrapping up, things in motion leading up to the new tour, etc. its not relevant to my opinion of the music, just interesting as far as keeping tabs on new projects and developments with the band.

to use it in the way you imply would be like "no wonder they put the song on watchmen, jimmy needs to make up for his real estate losses. god i hate these desperate rockers."

now you are making bad assumptions. don't do that.



relevance to me is a group or musician who continually grows, who steps it up from the previous effort (or takes the previous effort and adds a new twist to that). It's not about popularity, sales, milking the fans of their treasured memories. doing a gish tour is going against something billy had said way back in 2000 "it was a specific time and it'd be insulting to that particular time to try and repeat it."

sure they are creating new material, but it hasn't held up at all.. hell even billy seemed to lose faith in it as the tour wore on, half the record was dropped completely from the setlist by the fall of 2007 and all billy can do was complain that no one was listening to the new record.



I highly enjoyed those two songs. the band is capable of making something special still yet they choose to exclude the better material from the new record and go with the material that is safe and gives them a shot at surviving in the current market (tarantula is a modern pumpkins twist on what was popular in modern rock radio in 2007, BTO was the standard SP song that coulda been on any album blah blah blah). but SC and Gossamer to me seemed to come from a place that was a bit more honest.. almost like jimmy and billy wrote them rather quickly by just playing naturally.



the energy that they play the old material with is almost insulting to the energy they played it with between 91-99. there are no unreachable standards here, it just doesn't register as honest to me anymore and i've grown out of the music quite a bit.



his drumming is the only decent thing about zeitgeist, but im going to disagree with the drumming crushing the complex material. for the most part, his drumming is limited to billy's writing style, which has not evolved a whole hell of a lot in the past few years. with billy mohler, he was given the chance to discover new avenues and challenges with his playing, and it shows. I want to see more of that, i want to see how far jimmy can go as far as integrating a multitude of genres/styles are concerned, and the possibilites are there with the complex. with SP, he's stuck in the rock drummer role. If anything, the complex has helped him to evolve in this particular role. (i'm not denying his drumming in anyway, i love the mans playing). corgans lucky to have him, that's all i can say.. I wont deny drum tracks like US or Superchrist, two songs that wouldn't be worthwhile if it wasn;t for his presence.

^ here's the paranoid i know and love. intelligent discussion! thank you!

you have lots of valid points and completely fair opinions.

i agree with songs like mayonaise havign less enthusiasm than in 93, but how can that be avoided with age? its 15 yrs later and this is a human being. that emotional attachment cannot be artifically created...which is why they are always reworkign songs. the least enthusiastic of the old songs were the ones played exactly like the album -- mayo, for example. however shame, lucky 13, to sheila, silverfuck, the songs with more liberties were all fresh and awesome. even some like drown, starla and hummer somehow managed to hold their glory without changing thatg much. you can't deny it.

tarantula fit for modern rock radio? are you kidding? before that i hadn't heard a guitar solo or a non verse-chorus-verse structured song on the radio in months. i was all repetetive hives, vines, white stripes, foo fighters, whigs, against me, rise against, etc. it was a very gutsy solo and in your face. the guitar and drumming skill on that trick out-did anythign else on the radio at that time.

agree about BTO and your points on SC, Gossamer. thats why there' shope for this new song releasing format. billy will move through different writign phases and not try to "construct" things as much int the flow of an album. its like we get with the b-sides....because things no longer have to "fit". i am looking forward to it, despite the indication that the bjorn co-produced GLOW with lite jimmy drumset may be a direction i myself may not enjoy as much as Zeitgeist-era. but i know the live shows will always be awesome.
.
Finally, i totally agree that the complex was great. i said that. Live they completely blew away the album. any traces of simplistic song writing or repetition were washed away in the live shows, where all the members were allowed to do their free-form work uninhibited. including jimmy. it was great to witness, including the atomosphere at the shows, and as a result i have the highest regard. so "crushed" was probably an exaggeration, i apologize. but Z still wins by a few lengths for me. especially when i hear that album in the context of what he does with the Zeitgeist material live (US by the end of the tour!!!!), its deifnitely ahead for me. Based on the live stuff and his level of contrubution (from what he has said on interviews, demonstrated during drum clinics, etc.) i completely disagree that JC is limited by billy in anyway. they still push each other back n forth on stage, during SC, like they did with FU in the good 'ol days? (if you consider 2000 the good ol days, which from your 91-99 comment above, you don't).

no rock act can even sustain more than 1 good album (maybe an ep and an album). let the veterans musicians make music, and fuck the other bullshit.

:rofl:

seriously?

like, really?

:rofl:

Corgan rules.
.

fuck. this. band.

cuz they swear. too. much.

it's an obvious. ploy.

and irresponsible.

zeitgeist sucks. american gothic sucks. superchrist was a crapfest.

and who names their songs after a perfume by J.Lo?

theres too much good music keeping me from dwelling on the smashing pumpkins' fall from grace

billy will cry when he reads this thread

j lo has a perfume called superchrist? lol!

and who names their songs after a perfume by J.Lo?

no one. it's about a little worm that billy befriended on the zeitgeist tour. Glow, or Glowie as he's known to his friends, is a really nice glowworm and i can't wait to hear the song about him.

I like Smashing Pumpkins.

old has been whose more concerned with his relevance than he is with his development into musical maturity. ditching the djali and chicago songs material is a prime example of this.
This is indeed the worst part of it. Id rather have slightly pants old-man corgan music than the musical and artistic abortion that is SP2.

band good, album bad, more jcc and iha plz [or get him back in sp].

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band good, album bad, more jcc and iha plz [or get him back in sp].

He's been working on the Iha thing. For a <strike>while</strike> long time.

no one. it's about a little worm that billy befriended on the zeitgeist tour. Glow, or Glowie as he's known to his friends, is a really nice glowworm and i can't wait to hear the song about him.

awww!

Billy and Jimmy love working together. Jimmy says in his Blog they will be making music forever more. Their strengths really complement eachother and when together imo they achieve something incredible together. They both seem fully invested in the band and have intentions of growing it which i think is fabulous and very exciting. They are doing what they feel in their hearts that they want to do, to continue making beautiful music. I think there will be some really great music in due time. The potential of these talents is so huge. Another song done already to look forward to! =D

Why don't you hang in there paranoid, it's too soon to consider letting the door hit you in the rear on the way out

Whatever they choose as long as it's light. Ill always love those Pumpkins.

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i feel kind of sad because none of this matters much to me anymore. stay together, break up, whatever. I'll still go see them and have a good time, but i'm currently feeling pretty apathetic towards them. it's like losing a friend :(

That's like my uncle's battle with alcoholism. At first... you want to help, and eventually it turns to, "you're a lazy drunk fuck. Get over it and get a job and quit living in Grandma's house. Jesus."

Billy needs to get out of my Grandma's house.

good analogy. i like it.

alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having:

"OTTO! YOURE AN ALCOHOLIC!!!"

"OTTO! YOU HAVE LUPUS!!"

one of those doesnt fit

it's so fucking irresponsible when people get lupus.

fucking assholes, always luping around bumming people for change

Got any change?

How come alcoholism looks so romantic when you're talking about Kerouac and other such figures?

once again, we've derailed. in spite of having our chat thread. naughty.

fuck this band. fuck em hard.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/CBSSundayMorningLogo2.gif/225px-CBSSundayMorningLogo2.gif

How come alcoholism looks so romantic when you're talking about Kerouac and other such figures?

this is a good question. heroin addiction/burroughs is like that too.

once again, we've derailed. in spite of having our chat thread. naughty.

fuck this band. fuck em hard.

sometimes order comes in the form of anarchy

and what it has become.

half assed nostalgia act with half the original members missing and suing whoever they can to get their monies.

I disagree because they came back with a new album which most nostalgia acts dont do.

http://hipstersunited.com/images/lost94tapes_snail.JPG

alcoholism is the only disease you can get yelled at for having:

"OTTO! YOURE AN ALCOHOLIC!!!"

"OTTO! YOU HAVE LUPUS!!"

one of those doesnt fit


http://itsnotlup.us/notlupus.png

Oh yeah. If you don't like this band, don't post here. Esty's got it covered. Thanks.

*correction Oh yeah. If you like this band, don't post here. Davin's got it covered. Thanks.

no way SP is going strong! Zeitgeist grabbed me out of nowhere...I like AG and Superchrist. Superchrist puts me in an artistic zone while painting....

good to see some positive energy on the board today.

and what it has become.

half assed nostalgia act with half the original members missing and suing whoever they can to get their monies.

agree'd Adam.












































i will still listen to teh gay 'GLOW' whenever that is.....i fucking hated Superchrist

now you are making bad assumptions. don't do that.



relevance to me is a group or musician who continually grows, who steps it up from the previous effort (or takes the previous effort and adds a new twist to that). It's not about popularity, sales, milking the fans of their treasured memories. doing a gish tour is going against something billy had said way back in 2000 "it was a specific time and it'd be insulting to that particular time to try and repeat it."

sure they are creating new material, but it hasn't held up at all.. hell even billy seemed to lose faith in it as the tour wore on, half the record was dropped completely from the setlist by the fall of 2007 and all billy can do was complain that no one was listening to the new record.



I highly enjoyed those two songs. the band is capable of making something special still yet they choose to exclude the better material from the new record and go with the material that is safe and gives them a shot at surviving in the current market (tarantula is a modern pumpkins twist on what was popular in modern rock radio in 2007, BTO was the standard SP song that coulda been on any album blah blah blah). but SC and Gossamer to me seemed to come from a place that was a bit more honest.. almost like jimmy and billy wrote them rather quickly by just playing naturally.



the energy that they play the old material with is almost insulting to the energy they played it with between 91-99. there are no unreachable standards here, it just doesn't register as honest to me anymore and i've grown out of the music quite a bit.



his drumming is the only decent thing about zeitgeist, but im going to disagree with the drumming crushing the complex material. for the most part, his drumming is limited to billy's writing style, which has not evolved a whole hell of a lot in the past few years. with billy mohler, he was given the chance to discover new avenues and challenges with his playing, and it shows. I want to see more of that, i want to see how far jimmy can go as far as integrating a multitude of genres/styles are concerned, and the possibilites are there with the complex. with SP, he's stuck in the rock drummer role. If anything, the complex has helped him to evolve in this particular role. (i'm not denying his drumming in anyway, i love the mans playing). corgans lucky to have him, that's all i can say.. I wont deny drum tracks like US or Superchrist, two songs that wouldn't be worthwhile if it wasn;t for his presence.

Oh...shut up! Zeitgeist is a good album and if you don't like it, just leave and find another band! You must have missed his performance on United States!

awesome, corgan rules is back!
interesting how corgan rules and esty both disappear and then reappear around the same time.

MAGIC

i completely agree that this "band" is pretty much in a crock of shit now. i'd still probably go to shows just to see what's going on/check out what zany professor billy von yearnsforfame is up to, but i have almost no connection to any of the new material. the shitty thing is, back before all of this new garbage came out, the pumpkins had a nice bookended legacy that was untouched... five great albums. but now, i have trouble listening to any of those five without being reminded of the awful watered-down, clamoring-for-relevence music that has come out under the "pumpkins" moniker in recent years. they fucked it up reeeeaaal badly.

and davin, there's so much new great rock out there now that i can't even find time to listen to all of it. perhaps you should stop using that old excuse to make up for the half-rate drivel that the big pumpkin money machine is spitting out now.

zany professor billy von yearnsforfame

awesome.

zany professor billy von yearnsforfame



Wow doesn't he already have fame?
and you still keep listening...well I guess this is why I have heard this place is hatephoria

i completely agree that this "band" is pretty much in a crock of shit now. i'd still probably go to shows just to see what's going on/check out what zany professor billy von yearnsforfame is up to, but i have almost no connection to any of the new material. the shitty thing is, back before all of this new garbage came out, the pumpkins had a nice bookended legacy that was untouched... five great albums. but now, i have trouble listening to any of those five without being reminded of the awful watered-down, clamoring-for-relevence music that has come out under the "pumpkins" moniker in recent years. they fucked it up reeeeaaal badly.


Ever think that maybe you are the problem and not the band?

omgz you guys, did you know they called this place HATEPHORIA? that's so wacky!!!!!!!!!!111one!!

Wow doesn't he already have fame?
and you still keep listening...well I guess this is why I have heard this place is hatephoria

STFU.

STFU.

Wow! am I lying? I have seen more complaints here than anything positive.
Maybe make a positive SP thread

and you still keep listening

i have grown quite agitated with this retort, which seeminly every pro-new pumpkins poster is so quick to hurl out at anyone who dares to speak against the "band". i have the right to stick around and complain. after fifteen years of devoted fanship, including purchasing albums, concert tickets, and in general spreading the word about the pumpkins, i have to right to a) continue to listen to new pumpkins music and b) say my mind if the shit stinks. and believe you me, it fucking reeks.

if you want a happy land where peons suck from the proverbial pumpkins wang regardless of the sour pus coming out, hop on over to blamo and post in the "omg, superchrist f'n rox" thread.

end.

Maybe make a positive SP thread
nah.
go visit blamo.

bye.

Ever think that maybe you are the problem and not the band?

nope.

suck from the proverbial pumpkins wang regardless of the sour pus coming out



oh that's kinda gross. :hurl:

oh that's kinda gross. :hurl:

i kinda had the same reaction when i heard american gothic.

STFU.

i have grown quite agitated with this retort, which seeminly every pro-new pumpkins poster is so quick to hurl out at anyone who dares to speak against the "band". i have the right to stick around and complain. after fifteen years of devoted fanship, including purchasing albums, concert tickets, and in general spreading the word about the pumpkins, i have to right to a) continue to listen to new pumpkins music and b) say my mind if the shit stinks. and believe you me, it fucking reeks.

if you want a happy land where peons suck from the proverbial pumpkins wang regardless of the sour pus coming out, hop on over to blamo and post in the "omg, superchrist f'n rox" thread.

end.


let's see there not new to me I have like everything they have done. so I guess I am the one who is wrong? Sure you can have your opinion, but isn't your cup 1/2 full, i mean a positive for every negative.

Ever think that maybe you are the problem and not the band?

so people have to change on purpose to enjoy things now huh

I DONT LIKE NAZISM MAYBE I SHOULD READ MEIN KAMPF SINCE I AM THE PROBLEM AND NOT ADOLF HITLER

so I guess I am the one who is wrong?

i never said you were wrong (aside from calling me out). you said that i was wrong.

i kinda had the same reaction when i heard american gothic.

me too.

i never said you were wrong (aside from calling me out). you said that i was wrong.

Um I didn't call you wrong.
keep your opinions going...it's all good regardless

There is a difference between the slowly dying, wounded beast SP and the polished insincere, itunes SP...


Seriously, I used to get chills from the sound of the feedback. You could literally feel the hurt coming through the cabs and from Billy's voice. Now I get some really rocking music... but there is a difference between being able to play the guitar well with other musicians and pouring your guts out on stage with your friends.

There is a difference between the slowly dying, wounded beast SP and the polished insincere, itunes SP...


Seriously, I used to get chills from the sound of the feedback. You could literally feel the hurt coming through the cabs and from Billy's voice. Now I get some really rocking music... but there is a difference between being able to play the guitar well with other musicians and pouring your guts out on stage with your friends.
:banging:

this post sums it up nicely.

And to be honest, they still put on an amazingly fun show. But as fun as it is, it doesn't compare to a pumpkins show in the band's heyday.

so people have to change on purpose to enjoy things now huh

I DONT LIKE NAZISM MAYBE I SHOULD READ MEIN KAMPF SINCE I AM THE PROBLEM AND NOT ADOLF HITLER

i don't think this analogy is appropriate at all.

[QUOTE=DaveKShape;3302414] but now, i have trouble listening to any of those five without being reminded of the awful watered-down, clamoring-for-relevence music that has come out under the "pumpkins" moniker in recent years. they fucked it up reeeeaaal badly.

[QUOTE]

If one bad album can taint the entire back catalog than maybe you werent much of a fan to begin with. I mean one bad album out of 6 is pretty awesome for most bands no?

i don't think this analogy is appropriate at all.

national socialist analogies are always appropriate! commie scum!

I said this in 1998... and ten years later... the phrase is still repeated constantly "Fuck this band"... but actually it should be "Fuck Billy" he's one that ruined it.

phffft... the accusations against me are unsubstantiated and plainly absurd. i don't even tip.

but the music is still good your argument breaks down here

i'm sure someone mentioned that already but i don't want to read 3 pages of an SP board thread

actually i probably will, this seems like a good one.

Um I didn't call you wrong.
keep your opinions going...it's all good regardless

I think I'm 100% right all of the time and everyone else is stupid.

I think I'm 100% right all of the time and everyone else is stupid.

wow

wow

STFU.

If one bad album can taint the entire back catalog than maybe you werent much of a fan to begin with. I mean one bad album out of 6 is pretty awesome for most bands no?

not to ppl who actually buy records

If one bad album can taint the entire back catalog than maybe you werent much of a fan to begin with. I mean one bad album out of 6 is pretty awesome for most bands no?

so what, we're judging how big a fan of the band we are based on the willingness to tolerate a bad album? that makes no fucking sense. if we take it down to those terms, i could say that calling them out for making a shitty album makes me a bigger fan than someone who mindlessly follows crap in the name of blind allegiance.

your logic contradicts itself

so what, we're judging how big a fan of the band we are based on the willingness to tolerate a bad album? that makes no fucking sense. if we take it down to those terms, i could say that calling them out for making a shitty album makes me a bigger fan than someone who mindlessly follows crap in the name of blind allegiance.

The fact of you saying that Zeitgeist is a bad album is inconsequential. Everybody has their opinion and that's fine. I dont like Machina overall so I am not a person who mindlessly likes everything they put out. But to say the band's whole history is tarnished because of one bad album(ie Zeitgeist) is being overly negative and taking it too far.

j lo has a perfume called superchrist? lol!

:rofl:

no one. it's about a little worm that billy befriended on the zeitgeist tour. Glow, or Glowie as he's known to his friends, is a really nice glowworm and i can't wait to hear the song about him.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/TwilightToStarlight/gloworm1.jpg

awesome, corgan rules is back!
interesting how corgan rules and esty both disappear and then reappear around the same time.


Interesting observation. I'd be in shock if they were the same person though.

::sigh:: this thread is sad.

in a pathetic, stupid kind of way.

The next album will make or break this comeback (The whole safe thing I'll give them, gotta sell those records... to get back in the game...), but I haven't been so indifferent about these guys since I got into them. Sad i guess.

The next album will make or break this comeback (The whole safe thing I'll give them, gotta sell those records... to get back in the game...), but I haven't been so indifferent about these guys since I got into them. Sad i guess.

Actually, more than anything, I feel as though the If All Goes Wrong dvd will make or break. But somehow, I feel like it's gonna be pretty fascinating.

Actually, more than anything, I feel as though the If All Goes Wrong dvd will make or break. But somehow, I feel like it's gonna be pretty fascinating.

i don't think people are going buy a DVD about a band that have no musical interest in. I suspect this dvd will sell much like the re-release of vieuphoria on dvd

i have grown quite agitated with this retort, which seeminly every pro-new pumpkins poster is so quick to hurl out at anyone who dares to speak against the "band". i have the right to stick around and complain. after fifteen years of devoted fanship, including purchasing albums, concert tickets, and in general spreading the word about the pumpkins, i have to right to a) continue to listen to new pumpkins music and b) say my mind if the shit stinks. and believe you me, it fucking reeks.

if you want a happy land where peons suck from the proverbial pumpkins wang regardless of the sour pus coming out, hop on over to blamo and post in the "omg, superchrist f'n rox" thread.

end.

i've grown tired of you. go away. take your fanboy history with you.

i love how if you enjoy superchrist, you are somehow a) wrong b) happy c) gay and d) a pushover.

must be a powerful song.

::sigh:: this thread is sad.

in a pathetic, stupid kind of way.

Agreed.

i've grown tired of you. go away. take your fanboy history with you.

i love how if you enjoy superchrist, you are somehow a) wrong b) happy c) gay and d) a pushover.

must be a powerful song.

i was just using that song as an example to trash blamo in a hilarious overdramatized fashion. i love it how today i post multiple times instead of once every month like i normally do, and you're already tired of me. thicken up your skin, boy.

zzzzzzzzzzz

Fuck this band. Fuck them up their stupid asses.

i couldn't believe it. i heard "i of the mourning" on the radio this morning and it somehow made everything better for awhile

why would you invest energy into not liking something?

it's super duper pointless

go put energy into something you do like at least you be progressing

as Billy says 0 x 0 is 0 and nobody wants to be 0, I certaintly dont

I've been hearing them played on the radio more this past week too. =D

why would you invest energy into not liking something?

it's super duper pointless


seriously, super duper pointless.

SUPER SERIAL

If Billy did the exact opposite of whatever mayday would advise him to do in any given situation, this band would start getting back on track.

there is as much a point in saying how much you dislike something as saying how much you like something

MAYBE THERE IS MORE GOING ON THAN PEOPLE JUST ACTIVELY NOT LIKING SOMETHING!?

like what, quaid?

what?

I find nothing but intruiging critiques on the nature of artistic integrity and the songwriters craft in the posts of those less than enamoured by sp2.

If anything the idea that folks have stumbled upon something they disliked and decide to spend a few thousand stabs of the keyboard is a strawman. No my friend, they are trying to make sense of the changes to something and someone they love, and perhaps vainly hoping that by announcing their concerns they will prevent others not too far along the path to media whoredom to amend their direction.

by getting others to stop liking the smashing pumpkins?

i think there are other avenues to go explore in an effort to bring sense to the senseless.

'they' have been trying to make me stop listening to the Smashing Pumpkins since 1996. it's never, never, never going to happen!

get out of this thread, monte.

by getting others to stop liking the smashing pumpkins?

i think there are other avenues to go explore in an effort to bring sense to the senseless.
Thats quite a ridiculous take on the more skeptical posts on this board. I think if there is any desire to change what other people think it'd simply be to temper their fandom for SP2 with a bit of perspective and understanding.

media whoredom, like all good things, should be taken in moderation.

I'm glad that i do not have the perspective of a fair weather fan. to me there is so much incredible talent in the members of this band. people are not 100 percent all of the time. they are people. but it's worth it to me to stick around to see what is next because i know what is possible. the chips may appear to be down. but there is no arguing that the talent is there and perhaps it's a matter of channeling it in a better way that is "problem". it's a matter of working out the channel. i have faith and always will that this band is top top notch. =D

despite any amount of nay sayers i know what is there and what can be, they just have to be it

'Fan' is not a badge of honour, its a badge of idiocy.

And name a single detractor who isnt on the record in hoping that billy writes and acts in his 100% fashion again you fetid bitch.

GlassgowKiss you might need to get a drink of water, because i can't see why your so upset.

and being a fair weather fan or not i am not sure is a real big deal.. But I guess the only way that SP will be consider awesome will be if they were young and selling records.

For some of us seeing him release something that he loved rather than something he thought would be popular might be enough.

For some of us seeing him release something that he loved rather than something he thought would be popular might be enough.

i wonder if that is how AG came out.

To what do you refer to as AG. As you can probably guess and pillory me for, im out of touch.

pumpkins rock
shut the fuck up all of you

This is a good demonstration of how sad the Pumpkins have gotten post-2006.

Here's a bit of history:

I grew up listening to Siamese Dream, and eventually fell in love with listening to it in the car with my parents. The first CD I ever bought was MACHINA, and I have a strange connection to the album because of that. During my childhood and the years they were broke up, the Pumpkins position as my favorite band held tight. I dreamed of seeing them live. I was so, so, so excited when I heard the Pumpkins were re-uniting; and the Tarantula single did not do much to soothe my obsession. It was fucking amazing. Period. Then I heard Zeitgeist and jammed it for nearly a month. Then I saw them in concert and almost fucking divorced the band altogether because they were so fake and in-direct. Billy calling little kids up on stage? What, the, fuck? Are we at a fucking Beach Boys show or a rock show? His vocals were whiny and drawn out. Then I made an amazing revelation. The passion! Where the fuck is the passion? The album's bland, super-clean rock sound makes one hell of a drab album.

The result:

Hell, even with MACHINA's issues, the passion and devotion was all there and it had meaning! His voice was so depressing and deep. What the fuck happened? Where did his passion go? He doesn't sing in that soft, acoustic tone or the nasally Mellon Collie tone. Hell, he doesn't even sing in the soft/nasal hybrid he sang in MACHINA. It's just fucking off-key; consistently. And I could careless about their commercial success; the album was so fake and artificial that Billy looked like such a douchebag. Every Pumpkins album had something special. What do you say about Zeitgeist in 15 years? A watered down Siamese Dream devoid of passion?

Personally, before Zeitgeist and for a few months after, the Pumpkins got 80% of airplay in my car. Now it's barely 20%. That's how piss poor Zeitgeist was...below St. Anger! No matter how bad St. Anger was, I can still listen to Metallica. Every time I listen to Siamese Dream or MACHINA (for warm-fuzzy feelings) I get sad and depressed thinking about his dwindling vocal skills and the fucking hypocrites they've become. What ever happened to "I'm not the messiah, I'm just some dumb Midwestern guy?". What ever happened to silly videos like Rocket? What ever happened to the passion and fun?

Even if Billy doesn't have the pipes anymore, plenty of singers cope with their dwindling voice; hell, Daltry's voice is still ass-kicking and Thom Yorke's voice still is eerie as fuck. Billy's? It just sounds god-awful. Consistently. That's why I'm disgusted to call myself a Pumpkins fan; Billy's just a shell of what he used to be, no better than Britney Spears. The only difference between Corgan and Spears? Nobody cares! Maybe if he hits rock bottom and hits his middle age slump we'll see better future. But for now, it's a sad time for rock when one of rock's best minds can't make an album better than Hinder. No longer the young outsider, just a dull, washed-up star who'll be living in a fucking double-wide 20 years from now after all of his money from the 100,000 versions of Zeitgeist gets spent up on plastic surgery. Personally, I want the Pumpkins to stay in the ground and be one of those bands that had a failed reunion and salvage their legacy. Because, without Iha, that unique guitar tone we had in MCIS is gone, the badass bass of SD is gone, and the friction that created classics like Adore and Siamese Dream are all missing.

Goddamn, it's sad day when I have to say NIN and The Mars Volta are my favorites, no longer the Pumpkins...all those years...=(

Btw, the ads on this site are horrendous.

The

window

The Pumpkins aren't capable of aging gracefully. Billy doesn't have the type of personality that would allow that. He's not very mature. He doesn't deal with failure well and it's always been like that. He said in the early days that he would break up the group unless Siamese Dream was a very successful record. He let the sales of Adore get under his skin and affect his songwriting on the following albums. He's almost like his own worst enemy.

I wish the guy could set his ego aside for one fucking year. He seems so approachable right now, but the ego is out of control.

For some of us seeing him release something that he loved rather than something he thought would be popular might be enough.


that would be great of course :)

and dont you dare call me fowl names. it's unacceptable. and I will not tolerate it.

:banging: :D

The Pumpkins aren't capable of aging gracefully. Billy doesn't have the type of personality that would allow that. He's not very mature. He doesn't deal with failure well and it's always been like that. He said in the early days that he would break up the group unless Siamese Dream was a very successful record. He let the sales of Adore get under his skin and affect his songwriting on the following albums. He's almost like his own worst enemy.

i can agree with the last sentence to some extent. however i think he is more than capable of aging gracefully. he just needs to work on a few things. :)

A few?

Here's a list:

#1: Stop wanting a fucking 100000000x Platinum album.
#2: Stop thinking going independent is going to make you popular. You don't have a fanbase as strong as Radiohead and NIN.
#3: Stop wanting a bunch of teenyboppers. We aren't coming out of the grunge movement anymore.
#4: Nobody wants to hear another bland rock album.
#5: Stop thinking your progressing your singing voice by singing off-key.
#6: Don't ever make 10,000 special editions of an album.

I could go on.

that would be great of course :)

and dont you dare call me fowl names. it's unacceptable. and I will not tolerate it.

:banging: :D
Chicken! <and if you meant to elicit this response then good on you>

That's how piss poor Zeitgeist was...below St. Anger!

Hey there, let's not say things we will regret and cannot take back later. I'll give you that Zeitgeist was not that good, but certainly no below St. Anger.

The Pumpkins aren't one of those bands like Radiohead that can withstand trends and styles in the music world. They are a band of the moment instead of a band with lasting power. There is nothing wrong with being a band of the moment as long as you understand that fame is fleeting and can deal with that and aren't desperately trying to clutch fame and fortune.

I heard progression in St. Anger.

I heard regression in Zeitgeist.

St. Anger had ambition, they wanted to move past the lame blues-rock of Load/ReLoad and make a raw, gritty, brutalizing metal album. Despite the album sucking big monkey balls, it had ambition and accomplished their goal. St. Anger was the stepping stone from the blues-rock to the good ol' thrash we're expecting from Death Magnetic. Thus it was progression.

Zeitgeist, on the other hand, failed altogether. It wasn't commercially successful like Corgan wanted, nor was it a hit with the fans. It didn't do much to pull the Pumpkins back to their roots, and just made them look worse than the Zwan concept and the half-page Chicago ad. Thus, they've gotten worse and have nowhere else to go other than to suck balls for the next few years until they become the next version of R.E.M.

There's 10% hope left. That's it.

The Pumpkins aren't one of those bands like Radiohead that can withstand trends and styles in the music world. They are a band of the moment instead of a band with lasting power. There is nothing wrong with being a band of the moment as long as you understand that fame is fleeting and can deal with that and aren't desperately trying to clutch fame and fortune.
I dont understand how you can say they were a band of the moment when they were nothing like the moment they were in.

Edit: ok unless they were the perfect counterpoint to the moment in which they were in which makes sense but not as much as them being timelessly original.

as Billy says 0 x 0 is 0 and nobody wants to be 0, I certaintly dont

0+0=0

0−0=0

0×0=0

0÷0=ERROR

Nobody wants to be ERROR, I certainly don't.

The Pumpkins aren't one of those bands like Radiohead that can withstand trends and styles in the music world. They are a band of the moment instead of a band with lasting power. There is nothing wrong with being a band of the moment as long as you understand that fame is fleeting and can deal with that and aren't desperately trying to clutch fame and fortune.

Hang on, are we talking about the same band I'm thinking of? The band whose debut album was basically a British version of Nevermind?

I think we're thinking of the same band, but I don't know. Honestly, everything pre-Kid A sounds really, really 90s. Like Spin Doctors-ish 90s.

I heard progression in St. Anger.

I heard regression in Zeitgeist.

St. Anger had ambition, they wanted to move past the lame blues-rock of Load/ReLoad and make a raw, gritty, brutalizing metal album. Despite the album sucking big monkey balls, it had ambition and accomplished their goal. St. Anger was the stepping stone from the blues-rock to the good ol' thrash we're expecting from Death Magnetic. Thus it was progression.

Zeitgeist, on the other hand, failed altogether. It wasn't commercially successful like Corgan wanted, nor was it a hit with the fans. It didn't do much to pull the Pumpkins back to their roots, and just made them look worse than the Zwan concept and the half-page Chicago ad. Thus, they've gotten worse and have nowhere else to go other than to suck balls for the next few years until they become the next version of R.E.M.

There's 10% hope left. That's it.

Sorry man, was not meaning to get into a Metallica argument with you; I was just going for a cheap laugh. Honestly I agree with most of what you said (although I really do not hate Zeitgeist as much as you...). Even though St. Anger sucked dick, it was obvious from all the interviews and the movie that Metallica really wanted to combine old with new ideas.

A few?

Here's a list:

#1: Stop wanting a fucking 100000000x Platinum album.
#2: Stop thinking going independent is going to make you popular. You don't have a fanbase as strong as Radiohead and NIN.
#3: Stop wanting a bunch of teenyboppers. We aren't coming out of the grunge movement anymore.
#4: Nobody wants to hear another bland rock album.
#5: Stop thinking your progressing your singing voice by singing off-key.
#6: Don't ever make 10,000 special editions of an album.

I could go on.

I think his biggest problem is that he's trying so damn hard to appeal to new fans, instead of older fans and fans like me, who came in very late but still know and appreciate the back catalogue.

And, plus, most of St. Anger would have been ace if Lars' drum set would have had that Black Album thump again, Hammett would have been less lazy on the guitar, and the production wasn't so fucking shallow.

While, yes, Zeitgeist suffered from poor production, only a few songs were ace and burdened by production and vocals. Doomsday Clock, Bleeding the Orchid, Neverlost, and For God and Country could have been epic, but RTB couldn't mix a Kidz Bop album well apparently.

I think his biggest problem is that he's trying so damn hard to appeal to new fans, instead of older fans and fans like me, who came in very late but still know and appreciate the back catalogue.

Yeah, and what's really ironic is the fact that the new Pumpkins fans have gotten sucked in recently to their catalog via the influx of old Pumpkins on the radio because of Z's release and the Watchmen trailer all end up listening to the older stuff.

Yeah I agree the first Radiohead album sounds like grunge but they were able to have success with their following albums in America without sounding like a grunge band. After Pablo Honey they didnt have to adhere to any trends to have success here. Kid A / Amnesiac is a further example of that.

How did 70% of The Bends and 25% of OK Computer not send off a grunge feel?

All that Radiohead did was ride the wave of an amazing album and release a very uncommercial album. The pieces just fell right for Radiohead, though, because OK Computer attracted a more indie, arty crowd that would follow Kid A then the casual angsty teenagers that MCIS attracted. Adore just pissed in all of the fanbase, basically. Even though it's a classic, it was not a good album for Billy to release and he's still reeling from it's effects.

He shouldnt have cared what people thought about Adore. If that's how he operates than there is no hope for him. He really shouldnt have cared what people thought about Gish either. That was the first sign of trouble. Threatening to disband the group after releasing Gish. He's too hard on himself.

I thought he threatened to disband after Gish because of the huge pressure.

He shouldnt have cared what people thought about Adore. If that's how he operates than there is no hope for him. He really shouldnt have cared what people thought about Gish either. That was the first sign of trouble. Threatening to disband the group after releasing Gish. He's too hard on himself.

he will most likely always be very hard on himself.

He's been on the top and he seems to have something to prove. Don't you recall the man date video (Billy & Roth)

Billy said something to effect "you got to the top and got to prove it wasn't by accident"

You're missing the point entirely.

If Billy didn't give a damn about what people thought, we wouldn't have the great albums we have now. Hell, they'd still be playing at the Cabaret on Fridays. Despite what we want to believe, bands are made for people to like them, not for completely self-indulgent desires.

If they were all self-indulgent, then the music industry would be full with bands like VAST and Sigur Ros. There's a balance that needs to be found, of self-indulgence and accessible music. Zeitgeist was so accessible that it was commercially shunned (if the masses call an album bad, it truly sucks. Think Minutes to Midnight!). If Billy can find that balance he had with Siamese Dream and MCIS, it'd be perfect. At this stage of his career, I'd take another Adore any day though, so whatev.

he needs to just the juice flow. i hope he starts the flow with G.L.O.W =D

Despite what we want to believe, bands are made for people to like them, not for completely self-indulgent desires..

are you suggesting that bands are completely altruistic.

Thats quite a ridiculous take on the more skeptical posts on this board. I think if there is any desire to change what other people think it'd simply be to temper their fandom for SP2 with a bit of perspective and understanding.

i don't think it's that ridiculous, and there are some people here who would derive great pleasure from seeing someone go, "oh my god... this band <i>does</i> suck now."

i definitely see the last part of your point, but it seems like a such a waste most of the time for the sheer fact that a lot of these people are just straight up nuts.

You're missing the point entirely.
If they were all self-indulgent, then the music industry would be full with bands like VAST and Sigur Ros.

Sounds like my kind of music industry.

the one thing that would please the fans is to stop making announcements for announcements.

prime example: take a page from nin, and put the new single up on the site when its done. Don't have your summer news be: new single in three months!!

if you are going to do blogs and news updates, stick with it - even if its not as often. stopping all major updates/news/writing after the record is released is fucking tacky.

give fans the first crack at tickets for shows. see also: pearl jam and nin's ticketing system.

find a way to release the djali/chicago stuff.

sell some soundboards on the main site.

also, the main site is getting better - but it should merge and be taken over by the hipster's united crew. people talking about the band with a passion would be the best people to run the site and maybe corgan would see there is a market for a chicago song ep online.

I've been out of fanboy mode for a while now but I just made a playlist with:

1 to sheila
2 blissed and gone
3 meladori magpie
4 last song
5 in the arms of sleep
6 mayo acoustic
7 set the ray to jerry
8 glynis
9 starla
10 blank page
11 for martha

and it's brutal.

also, the main site is getting better - but it should merge and be taken over by the hipster's united crew. people talking about the band with a passion would be the best people to run the site and maybe corgan would see there is a market for a chicago song ep online.

no we do not.

i don't think it's that ridiculous, and there are some people here who would derive great pleasure from seeing someone go, "oh my god... this band <i>does</i> suck now."

i definitely see the last part of your point, but it seems like a such a waste most of the time for the sheer fact that a lot of these people are just straight up nuts.
I thought you were being a bit more hysterical with your accusation. Yeah some folks would like that. It wouldnt do anything for me personally.

With regards trying to elucidate people on the mentality to which great art lends itself, all id say is that yeah its pretty daft trying to changes certain peoples minds but i learnt a bit about art from netphoria, i dont really think of myself as a purveyor of artistic knowledge but i think good points that would be drowned in masturbatory fanboyism ought to be defended.

I've been out of fanboy mode for a while now but I just made a playlist with:

1 to sheila
2 blissed and gone
3 meladori magpie
4 last song
5 in the arms of sleep
6 mayo acoustic
7 set the ray to jerry
8 glynis
9 starla
10 blank page
11 for martha

and it's brutal.

1. ADORE LIVE BOOT
2. ADORE DEMOS II


5. REPLACE W/ LOVE
6. VIEUPHORIA VERSION



10. ADORE LIVE BOOT
11. ADORE DEMOS

:rofl:

seriously?

like, really?

:rofl:

yes. show me a current example of a consistant run like gish-sd-pi-mcis. or bleach-nevermind-incesticide-heartshaped box. or phm-broken-downward spiral. or salival-undertow-aenima or pablohoney-thebends-okcomputer. i can keep going.

show me a band that has produced 3 Quality (note the capital Q) albums. and show me this generation's headliner rock acts? there's plenty of good music, just no strong 3 album or more runs.

the kills
mogwai
sioxsie and the banshees (ok, not current but still totally fucking rad)

which 3 mogwai albums are you claiming?

pffft, the kills.

oh HELL no, davin. hell no. would you prefer i say local H? how about Bush?

this shit is so relative anymore, i don't know why you're trying to build an argument around it.

i completely agree that this "band" is pretty much in a crock of shit now. i'd still probably go to shows just to see what's going on/check out what zany professor billy von yearnsforfame is up to, but i have almost no connection to any of the new material. the shitty thing is, back before all of this new garbage came out, the pumpkins had a nice bookended legacy that was untouched... five great albums. but now, i have trouble listening to any of those five without being reminded of the awful watered-down, clamoring-for-relevence music that has come out under the "pumpkins" moniker in recent years. they fucked it up reeeeaaal badly.

and davin, there's so much new great rock out there now that i can't even find time to listen to all of it. perhaps you should stop using that old excuse to make up for the half-rate drivel that the big pumpkin money machine is spitting out now.

perhaps you should go to shows to listen to music, not "just to see what's going on and judge billy". they're not only playing new songs you know. what like over 70 of them were played last year.

i know there's plenty of good new music. i listen to a shit-ton of it, and was generalizing for the sake of the argument.

Look, unfortunately as much as I want to fake myself into thinking new Pumpkins is good...

...the unfortunate occurrence is that new Pumpkins is terrible.

Led Zeppelin - II - III - IV - Houses of the Holy - Physical Graffiti

oh HELL no, davin. hell no. would you prefer i say local H? how about Bush?

this shit is so relative anymore, i don't know why you're trying to build an argument around it.

bush? lol. um, 1 listenable album at most. funny example you chose, becsause bush was the beginning of the end. completely unoriginal secondary alternative rock shite.

but yes, its defintely largely subjective, and relative. thats why its just one of several arguments, for those who can't inherently recognize the skill, musicianship, truly artisitc and original output, etc.

Led Zeppelin - II - III - IV - Houses of the Holy - Physical Graffiti

current. CURRENT. thats the point.

but yes, i totally agree.

Off the Wall - Thriller - Bad

current. CURRENT. thats the point.

but yes, i totally agree.

Nirvana isn't current.

where did these window and puppet people come from?

Nirvana isn't current.

i know.

the point was: no current rock band has sustained a 3-in-a-row quality run of albums.

thanks for further proving my point.

remind me what you're basing your assessment of *quality* around?

perhaps there is band, billy, jimmy, etc. that is no matter to what previous gish gish gish music output etc. jimmy billy forthcoming music outpouring etc. comparisons opinion in yellow nirvana was good; isn't current. the band is really ship-shape but are canoes aren't even boats nor ships.

remind me what you're basing your assessment of *quality* around?

i'm leaving it open, on purpose....to further prove my point.

take any categorization of quality you wish: commercial success, indie popularity, online reviews, radio play, or just overall fan buzz or general opinion of youngsters.....you won't find it!!!

and how do you explain absolutely 0 current rock act headliners? while you'vea complete changing of the guard with hip hop and pop....and to a lesser degree with electronica.

rock bands just get short-term acclaim these days -- look at interpol, bloc party, my morning jacket, the killers. and soon against me and vampire weekend. only veterans can sustain, it seems.

i hope you meant razorblade suitcase. or else your argument is 1000 per cent invalidated!

swallowed

shirtless

mmmmm.

lol.

i hope you meant razorblade suitcase. or else your argument is 1000 per cent invalidated!

no way science of things

OK, now that I get what you mean how about this:

(I wont bother with the albums specifically)

The White Stripes

Kings of Leon

Muse

Tool (they are still still current, and their later albums rip way more than their past ones)

I also believe that The Killers have sustained their goodness, and that they aren't a blip.

fuck this hand

OK, now that I get what you mean how about this:

(I wont bother with the albums specifically)

The White Stripes

Kings of Leon

Muse

Tool (they are still still current, and their later albums rip way more than their past ones)

I also believe that The Killers have sustained their goodness, and that they aren't a blip.

the killer's, we'll see. they need another album first. kings of leon is also debatable. neither of the other albums are at the same level of aha shake heartbreak.

tool is hard to categorize if you ******* lateralus and salival and the new album. but i ground them in the 90's because of when they got their start. i am talkign generally talking post 2000 - 2008.

muse, white stripes...they technically started out in the late 90's and weren't what i would call original....though both have played a couple headliner gigs (very few though).

truly playing devils advocate, i would say marz volta and animal collctive may be the only exception in terms of the quality of multiple albums, but they never broke through the popularity barrier as much, nor reached true "headliner" status.

see what i mean? there's no easy choices, other than a few bands that *barely* qualify. listen, i'm not saying its 100% the bands. popular music is less rock oriented these days too, but still, thats like the chicken and the egg.

what the fuck is even your point? you make a vague, bullshit statement like "modern bands aren't good", then use vague language to knock down everyone else's argument, without even so much as considering the fucking MASSIVE influence that the internet has had. MAybe bands don't have massive multiplatinum albums because they aren't able to be forcefed as efficiently by the labels?

seriously davin's solution to modern rock sucking is for people to stop reading blogs/seeking out new music on the internet and STICKING TO CURRENT MODERN ROCK ARTISTS

i acknowledged that things are different now, above. still doesn't mean it isn't disappointing that no rock band can excel in all areas and measures of qaulity and/or success and/or populartiy and/or skill and/or following. somehow mars volta and animal collective made the best of it. but you're right, it sucks you will never know an era of good rock music and good popular music being one and the same. it was an awesome time to be a teenager.

but still, given all that, how do you explain the fact that other areas of music -- hip hop, pop, electronica -- are pressing forward and passing the torch, but rock is not?

doesn't the internet effect those genre's too?

<del?>

but still, given all that, how do you explain the fact that other areas of music -- hip hop, pop, electronica -- are pressing forward and passing the torch, but rock is not?

doesn't the internet effect those genre's too?

hip hop, rap, pop - these "genres" are not pressing forward. unless you mean dropping the needle on an old record and hitting record, then putting meaningless vocals on top.

a milli.

not everyone new in hip hop is doing that.

not everyone new in hip hop is doing that.

not everyone in rock is shit.

i thought the white stripes example was great, and don't get why you give them zero credit and say they are not original.

radiohead

augie march

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1 to sheila
2 blissed and gone
3 meladori magpie
4 last song
5 in the arms of sleep
6 mayo acoustic
7 set the ray to jerry
8 glynis
9 starla
10 blank page
11 for martha


we have the same taste in quiet pumpkins songs

they never broke through the popularity barrier as much, nor reached true "headliner" status.


i think this is the issue, Davin. What the hell does it matter if bands don't truly reach 'headliner' status. You're constantly repeating a few bands that made (mainstream) rock so great before 96 or 95 but it's bullshit. Underground music always contained the best stuff.

Don't invest too much hope in mainstream rock as it has always sucked. A few great bands are remember and held as an example of how great rock used to be in the old days but there was always a lot of crap.

Also what does it matter if artists don't release 3 great albums in a row. Every year there's a lot of great new music, you just have to dig a little bit.

also the mars volta and animal collective shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

also the mars volta and animal collective shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

Exactly.

Secondly Davin, your bringing about some serious lulz and lols from the peanut gallery...your arguments are completely based upon opinion, look at performance and critical reception for nearly all of those bands you shot down.

Muse=Three great commercial successes, all three of those were good from critics.
The White Stripes=Hell, they haven't made a bad or underperforming album since De Stilj.
And look I may get shot down on this, but The Killers, despite coming in as a random pop retro act, has two nicely done albums one after another.

And those three bands are pretty damn creative despite what opinionated nonsense you're spewing out. I honestly see no connection in Muse and Radiohead because Muse is like x10000000 heavier, The White Stripes are so rough and blues-y at the same time, and the only people who sound like The Killers were The Bravery, who blatantly copied them in the first place.

And they suck.

Oh, and Incubus should not have been left out. SCIENCE, Make Yourself, Morning View, and A Crow Left of the Murder were all excellent album and THEYRE HEADLINERS. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Oh, and Incubus should not have been left out. SCIENCE, Make Yourself, Morning View, and A Crow Left of the Murder were all excellent album and THEYRE HEADLINERS. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/failcheesecat.jpg

monte, close this thread please

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/failcheesecat.jpg

I wish I was as funny as you.

No, seriously.

I love picture fails.

It's my favorite thing.

:erm:

Anyone that keeps this thread going after this post is stupid.

How about we all go outside and fly a kite?

My kite flew away.

=(((

yes. show me a current example of a consistant run like gish-sd-pi-mcis. or bleach-nevermind-incesticide-heartshaped box. or phm-broken-downward spiral. or salival-undertow-aenima or pablohoney-thebends-okcomputer. i can keep going.

show me a band that has produced 3 Quality (note the capital Q) albums. and show me this generation's headliner rock acts? there's plenty of good music, just no strong 3 album or more runs.

My Morning Jacket: The Tennessee Fire-At Dawn-Chocolate and Ice-It Still Moves- Acoustic Cistuoca-Z-Okonokos
Drive-By Truckers: Southern Rock Opera-Decoration Day-The Dirty South-A Blessing and a Curse-Brighter Than Creations Dark
Akron/Family - S/T - Akron/Family & The Angels of Light - Meek Warrior - Love is Simple

this is so fucking embarassing. people with bad taste in music arguin with other people who have bad taste in music. none of you twits have any kind of imagination

Right, because it's not as though bristling, sniping remarks aren't like background radiation on Netphoria.

and what it has become.

half assed nostalgia act with half the original members missing and suing whoever they can to get their monies.
Billy + Jimmy > this thread

this is so fucking embarassing. people with bad taste in music arguin with other people who have bad taste in music. none of you twits have any kind of imagination

your'e actually embarassed?

you're telling other people they have no imagination?
and you are ... who???

My Morning Jacket: The Tennessee Fire-At Dawn-Chocolate and Ice-It Still Moves- Acoustic Cistuoca-Z-Okonokos
Drive-By Truckers: Southern Rock Opera-Decoration Day-The Dirty South-A Blessing and a Curse-Brighter Than Creations Dark
Akron/Family - S/T - Akron/Family & The Angels of Light - Meek Warrior - Love is Simple

My morning jacket...hahahahaha rofl theyre like fall out boy

Exactly.

Secondly Davin, your bringing about some serious lulz and lols from the peanut gallery...your arguments are completely based upon opinion, look at performance and critical reception for nearly all of those bands you shot down.

Muse=Three great commercial successes, all three of those were good from critics.
The White Stripes=Hell, they haven't made a bad or underperforming album since De Stilj.
And look I may get shot down on this, but The Killers, despite coming in as a random pop retro act, has two nicely done albums one after another.

And those three bands are pretty damn creative despite what opinionated nonsense you're spewing out. I honestly see no connection in Muse and Radiohead because Muse is like x10000000 heavier, The White Stripes are so rough and blues-y at the same time, and the only people who sound like The Killers were The Bravery, who blatantly copied them in the first place.

And they suck.

Oh, and Incubus should not have been left out. SCIENCE, Make Yourself, Morning View, and A Crow Left of the Murder were all excellent album and THEYRE HEADLINERS. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

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also, you're fucking retarded if you think muse don't blatantly rip off radiohead.

My morning jacket...hahahahaha rofl theyre like fall out boy

some of Z is good

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So fucking true.

De-Loused is the best thing they ever did, it was their first album, and it sounds less interesting every time I go back to it.

Cedric and Omar should have just kept ATDI going. That shit was awesome.

also, you're fucking retarded if you think muse don't blatantly rip off radiohead.
Well, to be honest, they don't.
They try, and fail.

this is all pretty silly

there are quite a few modern bands who have 3+ solid albums but even if i listed off 50 davin would just say "hm interesting interesting but im stupid"

plus a band that hasnt had a solid release for 10 years is less promising than a band that started their career 4 years ago and has 2 solid releases

THE 90S ARE GONE, DUMBASSES!

Every band doesn't try to rip off Radiohead.

If you think ATDI was better than TMV, well, good luck in life.

Every band doesn't try to rip off Radiohead.
nobody said this



If you think ATDI was better than TMV, well, good luck in life.
nobody said this either

read harder.

also
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At the drive in is better than the Mars Volta.

^^ different bands/styles, but I'd probably agree, solely based on Relationship of Command

and before thewidow says it, "progressive" =/= good
(not that TMV are progressive anyways)

this whole thread is a pretty pathetic display.

radiohead

you can't say radiohead. thats like saying pumpkins or NIN.

namely: still putting out new albums, but not any as well as their older stuff.

i think this is the issue, Davin. What the hell does it matter if bands don't truly reach 'headliner' status. You're constantly repeating a few bands that made (mainstream) rock so great before 96 or 95 but it's bullshit. Underground music always contained the best stuff.

Don't invest too much hope in mainstream rock as it has always sucked. A few great bands are remember and held as an example of how great rock used to be in the old days but there was always a lot of crap.

Also what does it matter if artists don't release 3 great albums in a row. Every year there's a lot of great new music, you just have to dig a little bit.

i know man, i was clear that there was lots of good music last year, year before, etc.

i'm just making a fucking observation and pointing out that the same fuckign bands from 10 years ago are headlining shows, and that there hasn't been any long streaks of amazing pieces of work (i.e. lack of consistancy). you can attack my single sentences out of context all you like, but really i'm just making an observation on how things have changed today.

and you're right, popularity doesn't matter. mainstream popularity today would be an insult, because it would mean the band making the music must be releasing some watered down palitable shit. that was just one of various measures, as i said.

but still, given all that, how do you explain the fact that other areas of music -- hip hop, pop, electronica -- are pressing forward and passing the torch, but rock is not?

doesn't the internet effect those genre's too?

Please name the hip hop you listen to?

Cause other than underground stuff hip hop is complete shit now.

you can't say radiohead. thats like saying pumpkins or NIN.

namely: still putting out new albums, but not any as well as their older stuff.

Whoops. Let's try to keep the In Rainbows arguments out of this board, please?

There's a reason I stopped going to the Music board 5 years ago.

also the mars volta and animal collective shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

but they have something in common. headlinining some mid-size fests and releasing quality work 3x in a row.

again, 3x is no holy rule. but just for the sake of my observation/argument.

also, you're fucking retarded if you think muse don't blatantly rip off radiohead.

Also, you're fucking retarded if you think Coldplay don't blatantly rip off Radiohead.

you can't say radiohead. thats like saying pumpkins or NIN.

namely: still putting out new albums, but not any as well as their older stuff.

That's purely down to opinion. For example, my opinion is that the only two songs I like from Pablo Honey as much as anything post-Pablo Honey are "You" and "Stop Whispering"

Of course, my opinion is the only one that is right.

Please name the hip hop you listen to?

Cause other than underground stuff hip hop is complete shit now.

my point about hip hop was how its kanye and common and outkast headlining these days, not snoop and dre anymore (what i meant by "changing of the guard"). if the same thing was happening as rock it would be snoop and dre and and ice cube and busta rhymes still.

but since you asked, some newer post-01 stuff i've liked: saul williams, the roots (my fav hip hop act), mos def, twalib kwali, some outkast, pharcyde, mika 9, deltron, nas, hi-tek, j-live...and a lot of older stuff.

its definitely secondary to rock for me (as is electronica), but i've been to some great hip hop shows over the years (most of which weren't underground) -- wu tang, methodman/redman, tribe, fugees, pharcyde, lots of roots, up in smoke....but i did see both twista and nelly before they were big (don't laugh), thanks to friends who were aware of them, and since they were somewhat local.

oh, and lets not forget trip hop. i love tricky and massive attack (old portishead, not so much....new portishead, i don't consider trip hop).

Whoops. Let's try to keep the In Rainbows arguments out of this board, please?

There's a reason I stopped going to the Music board 5 years ago.

haha, fair enough. i like in rainbows but its no ok computer or hail to the theif. :cool:

Also, you're fucking retarded if you think Coldplay don't blatantly rip off Radiohead.



That's purely down to opinion. For example, my opinion is that the only two songs I like from Pablo Honey as much as anything post-Pablo Honey are "You" and "Stop Whispering"

Of course, my opinion is the only one that is right.

coldplay rips off U2 more than RH. he's right about muse.

my point about hip hop was how its kanye and common and outkast headlining these days, not snoop and dre anymore (what i meant by "changing of the guard"). if the same thing was happening as rock it would be snoop and dre and and ice cube and busta rhymes still.

but since you asked, some newer post-01 stuff i've liked: saul williams, the roots (my fav hip hop act), mos def, twalib kwali, some outkast, pharcyde, mika 9, deltron, nas, hi-tek, j-live...and a lot of older stuff.

its definitely secondary to rock for me (as is electronica), but i've been to some great hip hop shows over the years (most of which are weren't underground) -- wu tang, methodman/redman, tribe, fugees, pharcyde, lots of roots, up in smoke....but i did see both twista and nelly before they were big (don't laught), thanks to friends who were aware of them, and since they were somewhat local.

Thats most of the hip hop I like but seriously oukast and common as headliners???

Big Boi is releasing a solo album this year anyway so no Oukast for now. Shit like lil wayne and even shittier T-pain are the actual headling acts. Noone where I live know(under 22 years old) who most of the people you named are.

does anyone here want to get back on topic.?

marking their hate or love for SP?

I want to fuck Smashing Pumpkins like an animal.

...your arguments are completely based upon opinion, look at performance and critical reception for nearly all of those bands you shot down.

The White Stripes=Hell, they haven't made a bad or underperforming album since De Stilj.

i know, i am just sharing my opinions and why I believe them to be true. isn't that what discussion and debate are all about? its very subjective, so i'm just making some "talking points".

anyway, discussing other music is a bad idea on this board. a band as diverse as SP draws in a very diverse bunch of fans...united by mutual diversity, i guess. anyway, point is we'll never see eye to eye, but its hard to not bring up other bands int he context of this discussion. i really don't likecomparing SP to anyone, but since people here don't take them on their own merit, these points come up.

white stripes. thats a mystery. [WARNING -- MORE OF MY OPINION COMING] not only is jack white the biggest douche, but i hate his overly simplified music and the movement it has created by offspring such as the hives, vines, etc. i can dig qotsa, but white stripes i never really "got". but i agree they caused copycats, and in general that means they were significant enough.

copycats = an impression has been made.....take that to be financial success, fan favoritism, headliner status, whatever.....but something happened. any band that has followers, thats pretty telling. SP included. what used to be betters is the number of bands doing this, simultaneously (i.e. a "scene" or "movement" of some kind).

Thats most of the hip hop I like but seriously oukast and common as headliners???

Big Boi is releasing a solo album this year anyway so no Oukast for now. Shit like lil wayne and even shittier T-pain are the actual headling acts. Noone where I live know(under 22 years old) who most of the people you named are.

i know man! but they have headlined some big shows, if nothing else played the grammy's, etc.

yea, big boi and T.I. are even newer and more current still. thanks for correcting me! again, thats just further proving my point about the torch beign handed off to new people. why isn't that happening in rock?

Mars Volta are interesting, At the Drive In was unlistenable generic rock from what I heard, although I've only listened to relationship of command.

does anyone here want to get back on topic.?

marking their hate or love for SP?

you rule with an iron fist.

My Morning Jacket: The Tennessee Fire-At Dawn-Chocolate and Ice-It Still Moves- Acoustic Cistuoca-Z-Okonokos
Drive-By Truckers: Southern Rock Opera-Decoration Day-The Dirty South-A Blessing and a Curse-Brighter Than Creations Dark
Akron/Family - S/T - Akron/Family & The Angels of Light - Meek Warrior - Love is Simple

i don't know all of those, and will have to check some of that out.

MMJ has definitely made a good run, but since they were late 90's I wasn't considering them current. I was greatly disappointed in Evil urges though. I hope they're not done from here on out.

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you've said good things about them before, i thought. :think:

I want to fuck Smashing Pumpkins like an animal.

Arousing.

ok thread going nowhere fast...

sadly nothing ever last.