I never usually visit TMZ, but someone turned me onto this article.

http://www.tmz.com/2008/07/24/smashing-pumpkins-lose-their-virginity/

Funny how there's not one picture of the main two people the article's about, and one big one of Billy.

d'arcy is still alive?

everybody, lawsuits!


all together now!

I never usually visit TMZ, but someone turned me onto this article.

:rolleyes:

Wait, Yoshinobu didn't get any $$$ when I downloaded that "Take Me Down" ringtone??? James, dude, just rejoin the band.

this should be interesting

i completely forgot about the songs james wrote.. thats hilarious that billy gets to cash off those too

D'arcy help write what? Daughter? I am not sure how this all works out but from the lawsuit it looks like SP in 98 signed a contract as the 3 of them to all get royalties no matter who got the witting credit

maybe if they'd rejoined the smashing pumpkins this wouldn't be an issue.

um, what about jimmy?

and relax, this is just like george, kramer and elaine wanting more money when the dvds of seinfeld came out. note they're suing virgin, not billy. its the way they sought to pay people based on primary wiriting credit, i imagine. though i agree if they were in the band during the time the song was used, they should get paid.

even if they didn't play on the record. :eek:

I never usually visit TMZ, but someone turned me onto this article.

:rolleyes:

:rofl: If you knew me, you'd know how funny it is that you assume I'm making things like that up. ;)

Oh well, they'll probably get about $50 bucks anyway. I'm sure Sp sells dozens of songs every month.

wait, who are d'arcy and iha?

wait, who are d'arcy and iha?

you could be on the jury!

the papers filed "demand for jury trial"

Wow, they did it today!
Is good to know some info about D'Arcy afterall ;)

Man I'd really like to know what d'arcy looks like these days. Maybe she burned that weight off or maybe she is simply enormous now, who knows.

haha this is fucking awesome.

james and darcy asking for money involving work they didn't do.

this is interesting on page 6 of the lawsuit it says that iha and d'arcy (or perhaps a lawyer) individually requested virgin to send them information regarding what money was paid to corgan. and virgin said they couldn't give the nfo w/o Corgan's okay

I wonder if Corgan was contacted at all about this.

d'arcy is still alive?

:banging:

also interesting, darcy still has kerry brown's last name even though they divorced about 10 years ago.

this is interesting on page 6 of the lawsuit it says that iha and d'arcy (or perhaps a lawyer) individually requested virgin to send them information regarding what money was paid to corgan. and virgin said they couldn't give the nfo w/o Corgan's okay

I wonder if Corgan was contacted at all about this.

Well, I suppose now he knows.

Lol, Billy... $

Well, I suppose now he knows.

why do you think that he knows now? He isn't named as the person or group being sued.

i am not going say Billy is be innocent of any wrong doing, but I wouldn't accuse him of it either.

In fact I could more likely see him being unaware of it. Just something his lawyers worked out. And maybe Virgin approached him or his people to set up the deal..

Also i wonder if these royalties had just to do with the Adore era.

Also I was thinking, it is possible, but not likely.. Maybe Jimmy never signed a contract w/ virgin after he rejoined with the band

ahahaha james and darcy are effectively suing billy. this is grand.

Never seen this photo before

http://www.stuff.co.nz/images/741876.jpg

haha this is fucking awesome.

james and darcy asking for money involving work they didn't do.

i lol'd @ this article; just imagining them asking for money, and their lawyer saying to darcy 'yeah, but all you did was stand there and try to look pretty, what's your point?'

I would never liked SP as much as i do today if it wasnt for James iha, he looked so cool playing guitar on stage with billy. It felt very smashing pumpkinsy

If they are legally attributed as creators of the material (which they are, otherwise they would have never been paid for original album sales), then they are entitled to their portion of whatever digital versions of those songs are sold. Anyone remember hearing about the writer's strike, practically the same scenario.

Never seen this photo before

http://www.stuff.co.nz/images/741876.jpg

lookit billy's big-ass monster hands.

ahahaha james and darcy are effectively suing billy. this is grand.

how do you figure that? they're sewing the label.

I wonder if this mutual struggle will bring Iha and D'arcy back together

lookit billy's big-ass monster hands.

the better to ROCK you with, my dear.

If they are legally attributed as creators of the material (which they are, otherwise they would have never been paid for original album sales), then they are entitled to their portion of whatever digital versions of those songs are sold. Anyone remember hearing about the writer's strike, practically the same scenario.

i assume this was after the band broke up and the label will claim they didn't know how to contact them and will settle. but then again, i'm totally guessing.

from what i have skimmed on those PDF's, it reads as though Virgin didn't pay out a certain amount....not like they paid it all to billy thinking the whole band was covered. and again, what about jimmy?

i assume this was after the band broke up and the label will claim they didn't know how to contact them and will settle. but then again, i'm totally guessing.

I don't think the check got lost in the mail is going to hold up in court, they will probably get 1.5x as much as they would have if they were paid from the start.

well, good thing billy was smart enough to copyright the name or whatever. even if it was later on and not from the get-go like Trent. that could have been trouble.

Billy: You didn't get your monies yet? that's weird...

If d'arcy and Iha were not in the pumpkins at all, i don't think they would of been sucessful as they were, they should be given a bit of monniess.

I don't think the check got lost in the mail is going to hold up in court, they will probably get 1.5x as much as they would have if they were paid from the start.

i agree..

i bet this gets solved outside of the court, but man it'd be interesting if it went to trial and some stuff became public records.

darcy wants to know how much it costs for 1 rib.

The World Could Feed You Lies: Part 4: James and D'arcy don't receive phone royalties. By Sven-Hack-Jill

how do you figure that? they're sewing the label.



http://www.maverydesigns.com/i/workshops_parties/angelica_sewing_machine.jpg

it's funny that a legal lawsuit might be the thing that will bring billy and james iha back together for the first time in 7-8 years...

i don't think either of them would have to come to court.

you think this is going to get to court? billy corgan is going to hush hush this outside of the legal system before he gets even worse of a reputation as a douchebag because of it.

http://www.maverydesigns.com/i/workshops_parties/angelica_sewing_machine.jpg

Beat me to it... great work.

http://www.maverydesigns.com/i/workshops_parties/angelica_sewing_machine.jpg

nice try, but i meant sewing in the nautical sense. so there. :p

um, what about jimmy?

and relax, this is just like george, kramer and elaine wanting more money when the dvds of seinfeld came out. note they're suing virgin, not billy. its the way they sought to pay people based on primary wiriting credit, i imagine. though i agree if they were in the band during the time the song was used, they should get paid.

even if they didn't play on the record. :eek:
This is a way of indirectly slapping Billy in the face without getting too personal though. Think about it, he knowingly went into an agreement to make money off of ringtones, some of which he did not write himself. If their lawsuit is successful it will divide the profit in some way between James, Darcy, and Billy.

but if you read the pdfs and articles, its all directed towards the label. like they withheld some, not like they gave their share to billy.

It has to be written like that if they are to be viewed as being truthful in their efforts to punish the label for excluding them from this deal.

Billy could have said "i'd like the rest of the band that was active during the time these songs were recorded/released to get a chunk, too", but he did not. They cannot really punish Corgan for this, as it would not make sense, so going solely after the label is the best thing to do. Again, it still does kind of punish Billy in a way because I doubt he'd get as much money if their lawsuit succeeds.

well, we'll see what facts come to light. because i don't think you can say for sure billy was trying to cock block them.

I did.

Consider:
James and Darcy sue Virgin and only Virgin.
They succeed.
Virgin and the ringtone companies have to analyze how much money these ringtones bring in and divide it among three (possibly four) people now.
Corgan does not get as much money as he used to now because he was hogging it all in the past.

That's it.

ah, i gotcha. its like an ongoing incremental thing. for some reason i was thinking he was paid up front...and thats why i thought "taking money back from billy" would be unlikely.

but that makes sense.

hey davin, you're a dick!

i assume this was after the band broke up and the label will claim they didn't know how to contact them and will settle. but then again, i'm totally guessing.

from what i have skimmed on those PDF's, it reads as though Virgin didn't pay out a certain amount....not like they paid it all to billy thinking the whole band was covered. and again, what about jimmy?

god damnit davin read the whole document before you make assumptions. it'll take you 10 fucking minutes.

billy, james and darcy renegotiated a contract with virgin on may 11, 1998, after the success of mcis allowed them more creative power over their recordings and more power over their rights. part of the agreement was that if new technologies were developed to market the music (ringtones, digi downloads), the three members would all have to consent in order for it to go through. they were not consented blah blah blah read it.

also, jimmy was not in the band in 1998 (i'm assuming you know this), so did not sign onto this portion of the deal. from what i gather, and chances are this deal only had to do with the adore and possibly machina material.

<prepares to see davin lash out with some profanities and missing the major points paranoid just made, arguing something irrelevant>

god damnit davin read the whole document before you make assumptions. it'll take you 10 fucking minutes.

billy, james and darcy renegotiated a contract with virgin on may 11, 1998, after the success of mcis allowed them more creative power over their recordings and more power over their rights. part of the agreement was that if new technologies were developed to market the music (ringtones, digi downloads), the three members would all have to consent in order for it to go through. they were not consented blah blah blah read it.

also, jimmy was not in the band in 1998 (i'm assuming you know this), so did not sign onto this portion of the deal. from what i gather, and chances are this deal only had to do with the adore and possibly machina material.

thx, now i don't have to read it. :) i did have the window open, minimized among like 30 other things, if it helps my case.


so who the fuck is buying adore ringtones? i just assumed naturally they we were talking about popular past singles (this is the masses we're talking about here, afterall)?

hey davin, you're a dick!

no you can't see it!

oops, you've got new material. my bad.

pug would be a pretty sweet ringtone.








(on the telephone)

lol. you got me there. :cool:

my ringtone is dead souls

This also concerns the digital sales, ie iTunes. There is plenty of money in that.

TCM=lol

I'll bet Billy's ringtone is a loop of "ON THE TEL-A-PHOONE! ON THE TEL-A-PHOONE! ON THE TEL-A-PHOONE!"

is it just about money? or is it also about the fact that the decision to release the music online and as ringtones was made without asking them? maybe the 1998 contract stated that they should have been consulted as well?

is this 1998 contract the mysterious deal they made with virgin, after the lawsuit about tafh being or not being an album?

This lawsuit is definately worth the 5 bucks D'arcy will get and the 50 bucks James will get

billy, just take it out of ginger's pay and cut them a check

darcy wants to know how much it costs for 1 rib.

And a handful of Pepsi.

TCM=lol

I'll bet Billy's ringtone is a loop of "ON THE TEL-A-PHOONE! ON THE TEL-A-PHOONE! ON THE TEL-A-PHOONE!"

"BEHIND A WALL OF CALLER-ID...BEHIND A WALL OF CALLER-ID...BEHIND A WALL OF CALLER-ID..."

This also concerns the digital sales, ie iTunes. There is plenty of money in that.

i was under that impression too. because SP wasn't on itunes until more recently.

"BEHIND A WALL OF CALLER-ID...BEHIND A WALL OF CALLER-ID...BEHIND A WALL OF CALLER-ID..."

That's the ringtone only when courtney love calls

after the lawsuit about tafh being or not being an album?what was the outcome of this?
1gish
2SD
3PI
4EARphoria
5MCISdusk
6MCIStwilight
7TAFH
contract over?

vs ???

yeah, it was about the pumpkins saying that the contract was over after tafh and virgin saying that they had to make on more album.

i think they made a new agreement and dropped the lawsuit. as far as i know, nothing else what said about it.

according to this article: http://web.archive.org/web/20010629055837/http://www.sonicnet.com/artists/ai_singlestory.jhtml?id=3387&ai_id=1016

virgin claimed they had released only 3 albums. the pumpkins weren't actually disputing that. they were using a california law that limits contracts to 7 years.

haha this is fucking awesome.

james and darcy asking for money involving work they didn't do.

way out of character for them, I know!

I cannot believe how rude and ungrateful some of you are towards James and D'arcy. Douchebags...

James and D'arcy's lawyer <i>actually requested</i> copies of checks that Virgin sent to Billy. I know you don't have to actually get a law degree to take the California bar, but this is ridiculous. I'd like to see the Response from Virgin to see what they raise...

i wonder if they wrote "we love you pumpkin" on the note of the check

I cannot believe how rude and ungrateful some of you are towards James and D'arcy. Douchebags...

you're not an album

cell phones vs billy corgan

round???

<prepares to see davin lash out with some profanities and missing the major points paranoid just made, arguing something irrelevant>

<you love penis in your mouth>

haha this story has hit pitchfork, and pitchfork is saying that the new single G.L.O.W is a coded message to james and d'arcy saying "Good Luck On Welfare"

quick, someone tell hipsters united so they can do a diss post on pitchfork

ok i'll just hang out here - ANY MINUTE

billy, just take it out of ginger's pay and cut them a check

Ginger wasn't payed with money. If you know what I mean.

"gingy"

I don't think Jeff, Ginger, and Lisa even got paid lol

how do you figure that? they're sewing the label.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-tiVFs5_ZTI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-tiVFs5_ZTI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I have three pumpkins ringtones ...

so, by having these, i am stealing money rightfully belonging to iha and d'arcy?

i bet that drink i bought james years ago was more than what he would get paid for my ringtones purchases.

remember that one time when moz and marr had to give tons of money so the other 2 smiths could get their cut of songs they didnt write? that was awesome.

but maybe it would get b0llweevil to write some cool songs against lippy crackwhores and japs.

ok i'll just hang out here - ANY MINUTE

FAIL

whoever it is they are suing, good for them if the other parties took advantage of them and gained off of them illegally. Flatten them out Pumpkins! You flatten them right out.

whoever it is they are suing,

Lets not get our minds mixed up on who they are suing.

<img src="http://forums.netphoria.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=32919&stc=1&d=1217086601">

if they had the contract w/ Billy they'd be suing him, but their contact is with Virigin Records

even if they were suing billy it doesn't mean they can't be friends. i sue my friends all the time. i think if billy and james and d'arcy have among them a true friendship then it can withstand a little civil action. they're best friends!

whoever it is they are suing, good for them if the other parties took advantage of them and gained off of them illegally. Flatten them out Pumpkins! You flatten them right out.

I'll flatten your mom right out.

quick, someone tell hipsters united so they can do a diss post on pitchfork

quick, tell me how salty pictfork's cum tastes.

wrong person, ask byron.

originally posted by Davin:

but if you read the pdfs and articles, its all directed towards the label. like they withheld some, not like they gave their share to billy

ohhhh, the joys of a major label.


originally posted by Gish08:

Billy could have said "i'd like the rest of the band that was active during the time these songs were recorded/released to get a chunk, too", but he did not.

ya, but why should he? people signed the dotted line and that's it. Not to demean your point, it's fine to bring it up, just not sure how relevant is to the particulars of this case.

I understand Radiohead signed a deal where each guy got 20% of whatever they made. period. Is there a Radiohead junky out there that can confirm that? I imagine it has a lot to do with their longevity, if that's the case, and makes me view Yorke as rather shrewd and intuitive to understand that arrangement would benefit him and the band in the long run.

Yes, the guys in Radiohead each got 20% which is the reason despite Thom Yorke being viewed as the leader of the band they all were pretty equal in their writing and ideas in Radiohead.

haha this story has hit pitchfork, and pitchfork is saying that the new single G.L.O.W is a coded message to james and d'arcy saying "Good Luck On Welfare"

You're the winner of the G.L.O.W. sweepstakes.

Your prize is a seat next to Monte for every stop of the current tour.

Congratulations.

Welp, there goes there chance to be on the first Virgin Galactic flight. Too bad.

lol... ringtones.

also..

lol.... Yoshinobu

http://kxn.paperwaspnest.com/smash/profile/pro-yoshi.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Yoshinoya_Shop.jpg

http://www.eri.u-tokyo.ac.jp/KOHO/STAFF2/tsuji.jpghttp://www.smashingpumpkins.com/gallery/pics/fe122a3b7effb5daf7dab5c9b74a81aa.jpg

D'arcy's looking on in a manner that says

"Don't be a chump for Billy, James."

Yeah, that's Jimmy's job!

Hence, his his contribution of vocals for Chump/Slunk.

well it looks like this lawsuit might effect the Gish box set

<a href="http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/news_5159">smashingpumpkins.com</a>
The upcoming Gish Box Set, scheduled for release in early 2009, may be affected by the outcome of this lawsuit. No details have yet emerged regarding in what way the proposed release would be affected, but it can be assumed that Virgin still owns some rights to the Gish material. Gish was released on Caroline Records, a subsidiary of Virgin.

If the Gish Box Set does suffer from current legal battles, the outcome of this lawsuit could affect more than just the parties directly involved. Those waiting patiently for their next piece of the "Pumpkin Pie" may have to wait a little longer, or wait indefinitely.

why wouldn't corgan's lawsuit not effect it as well?

it appears that if james and d'arcy win then that means they have to approve ALL release of music that they were involved in from the era's where they were involved...

i could see them saying no just because of past issues. but yes if they want the money or to please the fans

why wouldn't corgan's lawsuit not effect it as well?

the one about Pepsi promo thing? I imagine that is a call by Virgin

i would think they'd approve. they're more apathetic than full of too much pride. this might open up some dialog between the band too.

it could open up dialog. or it might just be lawyer to lawyer

or A2M. anythings possible. maybe darcy and james will hook up again and make little darcy Yoshinobus

that ship has sailed.

i still don't understand why the james and darcy lawsuit would be the one that fucks up the gish box. why wouldn't corgan's suit against virgin be more damning?

Because the James/D'arcy lawsuit has to do with digital royalties due as well as future releases (it was signed in 1998). When Billy signed the deal in 2006 that allowed the iTunes releases and what-not, James and D'arcy's signatures were not present (yet required). And due to the agreement signed in 1998 by Billy, James, and D'arcy... they are basically owed back pay of those digital sales. If this case is still in court or decided in their favor, they may have a say in what gets released (including the Gish box-set).

Oh yeah. And to be clear... this is not a case against Billy Corgan / the current Smashing Pumpkins. It's against Virgin records. So if James and D'arcy win this case, Billy / The Smashing Pumpkins owe them nothing... Virgin does.

What on earth is the point of that sp.com post? To make us hate James & D'arcy? To get us to write them letters saying "please don't be mean to Bill we need to hear East remastered?" I mean, talk about passive-aggressive. It reads like a post-it note your best friend's girlfriend leaves on his moldy dishes saying "I guess we'll have to buy paper plates even when we're married."

Now you know why Billy & J.C. are, and will always be, the only ones recording for SP2 - to avoid this mess. (which does make Melissa Auf der Maur more of a Pumpkin than Jeff/Ginger/Lisa cuz at least Melissa has an SP track to her credit):banging:

Sue, sue, sue, James & D'Arcy!

Has anyone brought this up?

Are James and D'arcy still communicating then? Do they share a lawyer? Have a common law firm representing them?

I will not say "discuss."

I don't think Jeff, Ginger, and Lisa even got paid lol


didn't Paz claim the same thing? she was either not paid or not paid enough.

What on earth is the point of that sp.com post? To make us hate James & D'arcy? To get us to write them letters saying "please don't be mean to Bill we need to hear East remastered?" I mean, talk about passive-aggressive. It reads like a post-it note your best friend's girlfriend leaves on his moldy dishes saying "I guess we'll have to buy paper plates even when we're married."

the funny part being that the whole thing is billy's fault

sounds like a ploy to back off another promise.

o crap i said i would quit this board, o well

hnibos FAIL

It is common practice for record labels to blatantly underpay (or not pay at all) knowing full well that the artist unlikely to sue them unless there is a lot of money involved and the artist is able to afford legal counsel. Until the artist sues them, the record label will ignore them. Once the artist does sue them, the record company will simply offer a settlement before things get serious. This is standard operating procedure in the entertainment world.

James and D'Arcy both have a small amount of writing credits and they are both credited as performers on several Smashing Pumpkins albums. Even if Billy did %95 of the work, they are still owed money from performance in additional to mechanical royalties. Performance royalties are usually an even split, so it doesn't necessarily matter who wrote what (unlike mechanicals, where writing credits and publishing determine who gets what).

EMI took a gamble and called their bluff, like they do with artists all the time. Some artists fight, some give up. James and D'Arcy are fighting.

the record industry must die
like for reals

word, yo.

i love billy's ongoing war of words with the record intustry. it's been about twelve years now. good one bill.

Hi Micky.

the record industry must die
like for reals
Tim Russert?

Hi Micky.

missed this the other day :) sup.

Not much, kind of like this thread.

I brought up:

So are Iha and D'arcy still in contact then? Or do they share a common law firm between them for representation?

I got nada.