(ok so) i'm doing a sound engineering course at the moment and yesterday i was asked to bring in a piece of music for the instructor to analyse. i didn't bring in any SP but, oh ok, yes i did. i chose US because i was interested in exactly how they achieved to pitch-shift delay shit (i was told they used a tape based unit for this).
anyway, is everyone here complaining that it is clipping throughout the whole album or on specific songs?
i was told that US doesn't show any sign of obvious clipping and the guy has got a good enough ear to tell me that the song was recorded on analogue tape.
just wanted to know from the people who say the album is clipping, does this ******* US?
(boring topic, i know)

i like your topic mickyshambles. no worries.

(ok so) i'm doing a sound engineering course at the moment and yesterday i was asked to bring in a piece of music for the instructor to analyse. i didn't bring in any SP but, oh ok, yes i did. i chose US because i was interested in exactly how they achieved to pitch-shift delay shit (i was told they used a tape based unit for this).
anyway, is everyone here complaining that it is clipping throughout the whole album or on specific songs?
i was told that US doesn't show any sign of obvious clipping and the guy has got a good enough ear to tell me that the song was recorded on analogue tape.
just wanted to know from the people who say the album is clipping, does this ******* US?
(boring topic, i know)

It's an interesting topic. What else did you discuss about the song?

I think most people who complain about clipping don't actually know what clipping is. Most modern music suffers from 'loud' mastering (Zeitgeist included), but that's not clipping, it's a reduction is dynamic range in exchange for percieved loudness.

This is interesting. I myself cannot distinctly hear and identify clipping in a song, I suppose my ear is not trained well enough. From my understanding though it is when the mastering is so loud that the high end of the music actually goes out of the dynamic range of the CD thus cutting it off completely. It is supposed to be most apparent on drums, correct?

gaylords!

It's not exactly clipping, but the whole album is literally compressed and limited to death. There's absolutely zero dynamics.

What else did you discuss about the song?

not much discussion, he just just listened to it and gave his opinion. noting that they kept the amp noise in to give it the feeling of loudness, when the bass comes in it's upfront in the mix compared to a lot of rock songs, two guitars panned left/right on the second verse, the vocals may have been recorded in a room rather than a vocal booth to give some more reverb seeing as it was recorded to tape and also that it was apparent that it was one person recording the tracks.

It's not exactly clipping, but the whole album is literally compressed and limited to death. There's absolutely zero dynamics.

but why would they record the whole album to tape and the compress the fuck out of it? would compression be used in mastering? i don't have a clue.

This is interesting. I myself cannot distinctly hear and identify clipping in a song, I suppose my ear is not trained well enough. From my understanding though it is when the mastering is so loud that the high end of the music actually goes out of the dynamic range of the CD thus cutting it off completely. It is supposed to be most apparent on drums, correct?

that's they way i understand it and i find it noticable while listening to cymbals etc on some machina tracks after listening to the premasters (some sound better mastered to me).

gaylords!

i didn't want your sister but she was just too easy. no more emails on that matter please.

I'm not sure whether or not this is obvious to you but it is highly likely that will it was recorded to tape it was subsequently mixed in pro tools or another digital platform, just an fyi directed particularly at the comments on vocal reverb.

but why would they record the whole album to tape and the compress the fuck out of it? would compression be used in mastering? i don't have a clue.


Bands/record companies usually give a 2-track mixdown of the recorded material to a mastering company (in this case Marcussen Mastering (http://www.marcussenmastering.com/). Then it's the mastering engineer's job to make sure all tracks sound equally good and have the same loudness. After that step, the mastering company usually produces a pre-master that is sent to the cd manufacturer.

I don't think BC or JC were even present during the mastering process.


that's they way i understand it and i find it noticable while listening to cymbals etc on some machina tracks after listening to the premasters (some sound better mastered to me).


Exactly. That's also the reason why I can't really listen to that album at all these days...

But when you get the chance, give your instructor a copy of MCIS. I think this is the band's best-produced album to date. Flood's the man!

I'm not sure whether or not this is obvious to you but it is highly likely that will it was recorded to tape it was subsequently mixed in pro tools or another digital platform, just an fyi directed particularly at the comments on vocal reverb.

I don't know. The mastering company responsible for Zeitgeist at least has some analog processing tools on their equipment list (http://www.marcussenmastering.com/services/services.html). But then again, nobody knows what they've used in the end.

About the analog recording... I don't think it makes any sense in today's world when all processing, mastering and the finished product are digital.

About the analog recording... I don't think it makes any sense in today's world when all processing, mastering and the finished product are digital.

I still think A > A >D sounds better than A > D > D or D > D > D
of course, all depends more on how its recorded/mixed/mastered exactly...

maybe it's a bit harsh to ask this question about US when it's probably not as bad as say 7 Shades (i'd love to hear a premaster of this to see the difference).

I'm not sure whether or not this is obvious to you but it is highly likely that will it was recorded to tape it was subsequently mixed in pro tools or another digital platform, just an fyi directed particularly at the comments on vocal reverb.

saying it may have been mixed in pro-tools doesn't really have anything to do with my comment. are you saying they added all the reverb after capturing the vocals? in most cases this would be the obvious thing to do. he just thought it sounded like billy used a bigger room for these vocals which can be risky but may have been exactly what he wanted to do. can you elaborate?

Bands/record companies usually give a 2-track mixdown of the recorded material to a mastering company (in this case Marcussen Mastering (http://www.marcussenmastering.com/). Then it's the mastering engineer's job to make sure all tracks sound equally good and have the same loudness. After that step, the mastering company usually produces a pre-master that is sent to the cd manufacturer.

but do you think they destroyed US?

But when you get the chance, give your instructor a copy of MCIS. I think this is the band's best-produced album to date. Flood's the man!

if i get the chance i will but it's costing me too much money to do so if he doesn't ask again. Flood = Genius

About the analog recording... I don't think it makes any sense in today's world when all processing, mastering and the finished product are digital.

a lot of people say differently. can't wait to actually use tape and see if i can notice any difference.

I still think A > A >D sounds better than A > D > D or D > D > D

it should do.

don't you remember billy and jimmy saying "we don't use pro tools" a hundred times?

you talking to me? because i never said they did.

I don't think the pitch bending thing on the guitar tracks is a tape delay, actually. It sounded just the same when I saw US live in Boston and I could be wrong, but I kind of doubt they brought a tape delay on tour. My guess is it's a Memory Man or other Analog delay.

That is unless you were referring to the vocal pitch bend in which case...yeah probably.

I personally think US sounds the best, production-wise, out of all the Zeitgeist tracks and, to me, sounds like it was recorded on the same tape machine they used for MCIS. The thing that makes it really sound best, though, probably, is the fact that the drums are a live take. Long takes just sound so much better/more natural than lots of small sections copied and pasted together.

I don't think the pitch bending thing on the guitar tracks is a tape delay, actually. It sounded just the same when I saw US live in Boston and I could be wrong, but I kind of doubt they brought a tape delay on tour. My guess is it's a Memory Man or other Analog delay.

That is unless you were referring to the vocal pitch bend in which case...yeah probably.

yeah i was referring to the vocal.

Some songs on Zeitgeist sound cleaner than others.

United States, while loud, sounds pretty clean.

Doomsday Clock, however, sounds like complete ass. Good thing it's a mediocre song at best, anyway.

I thought it was because Terry Date & Roy Thomas Baker were [co-]producers on the different tracks > that's why they sounded a bit different [cleaner]. Also didn't they record different songs at different locations... surely that must have some effect on the overall sound, despite the mastering.

As far as the compression on the album--there was some interview with Roy Thomas Baker where he said he doesn't like to use compressors...that on every track, he likes to crank the tape levels up to where the signal is totally saturated, so there is a natural tape compression. Not sure how much of the sound is due to saturated analog compression vs whatever they did during the mastering process.