View Full Version : Gish or Zeitgeist?


brothergoddard
03-13-2008, 03:46 PM
Gish- tracks 5-10 are hardly amazing

Zeitgeist- got its fair share of inferior songs

both are good solid albums but obviously not of the MCIS and SD quality, but which do you think is better? their first album or their latest?

Mo
03-13-2008, 03:47 PM
That's a seriously retarded question.

rolmos
03-13-2008, 03:47 PM
davin to thread

i_adore_adore
03-13-2008, 03:51 PM
Gish > SD

SD > Zeitgeist

brothergoddard
03-13-2008, 03:52 PM
Gish > SD



you are just flat wrong.

i_adore_adore
03-13-2008, 03:56 PM
I disagree. Gish has that raw psychadelia that I love in music. Siamese Dream is freaking great, but compared to Gish it seems too overthought. Gish feels a lot more free to me.

And then there's Mellon Collie, the ultimate, perfect, jaw-droppingly delicious piece of art.

rolmos
03-13-2008, 03:56 PM
^Agreed

But Adore > Gish

And SD > Adore

.:think:

brothergoddard
03-13-2008, 04:00 PM
i agree that adore>gish, but still cant concede siamese dream to gish. I see what you mean about the rawness of the album, and as they are very different maybe comparison isnt fair, but from the moment cherub rock starts i am in rock nirvana.

comments of MCIS obviously true :)

brothergoddard
03-13-2008, 04:04 PM
and hate to say it but today is probably my favourite SP song.

i_adore_adore
03-13-2008, 04:06 PM
And SD > Adore

NUH-UUUUUUUUH! :D

i agree that adore>gish, but still cant concede siamese dream to gish. I see what you mean about the rawness of the album, and as they are very different maybe comparison isnt fair, but from the moment cherub rock starts i am in rock nirvana.

comments of MCIS obviously true

It is really hard to say which SP albums are "better" than which, because they really are all very different. It all comes down to personal taste.

My friends make fun of me and ask me all the time, "Are the Pumpkins the only band you listen to?" (they're not, for the record...) But really, they've been so stylistically diverse that I feel like I can put a Pumpkins album on no matter what mood I'm in. I can't say that about a lot of bands. There are definitely days that I'd rather listen to SD than Gish, but overall I find myself enjoying Gish more.

and hate to say it but today is probably my favourite SP song.

Now see, I've never really been crazy about Today. It was one of the first songs I heard by the Pumpkins (I downloaded a bunch of random tunes when I first got into them), and even before I knew it was "uncool" to love "Today," I didn't really like it. I didn't DISLIKE it, but it never did much for me.

different strokes for different folks.

Quiet CD
03-13-2008, 04:08 PM
Can someone get banned for utter stupidity?

or trolling which this very well might be...

brothergoddard
03-13-2008, 04:09 PM
absolutely can put on an album whenever, they have songs for all moods, and true it does ultimately all come down to personal taste.

ouch the poll seems conclusive are you guys not zeitgeist fans?

i_adore_adore
03-13-2008, 04:12 PM
I loooove Zeitgeist, but I just like Gish more :)

davin
03-13-2008, 04:14 PM
davin to thread

gish is my favorite pumpkins record.

its also my favorite record of all time, by any band ever. its my "desert island" record...and my "sitting on death row" record.

the music, the lyrics, the song-writing...its the "spirit of the time" for me, with emotional and personal connections galore.

davin
03-13-2008, 04:15 PM
Can someone get banned for utter stupidity?

or trolling which this very well might be...

if so, there wouldn't be many of us left. :smoke:

laaazy
03-13-2008, 04:17 PM
gish is my favorite pumpkins record.

its also my favorite record of all time, by any band ever. its my "desert island" record...and my "sitting on death row" record.

the music, the lyrics, the song-writing...its the "spirit of the time" for me, with emotional and personal connections galore.

exactly how i feel, weird

Eulogy
03-13-2008, 04:18 PM
Gish > SD



hahahaha

skipgo
03-13-2008, 04:19 PM
siamese dream > adore > mcis > pi >gish > tfe = machina > zwan = zeitgeist
for today.

pete
03-13-2008, 04:21 PM
gish is my favorite pumpkins record.

its also my favorite record of all time, by any band ever. its my "desert island" record...and my "sitting on death row" record.

the music, the lyrics, the song-writing...its the "spirit of the time" for me, with emotional and personal connections galore.

Crush, snail, suffer- never even began to do anything for me. Just a kind of hollow core to the album at tracks 5 6 7. Hence I voted Zeitgeist.

seign
03-13-2008, 04:21 PM
SD>Adore>Mellon Collie>Gish>Zeit>Machina

skipgo
03-13-2008, 04:22 PM
yikes! crush, suffer and snail are my three favorites from gish!
ah, but it is our differences that make the world go 'round, no?

pete
03-13-2008, 04:23 PM
MCIS > SD

Not least because its essentially twice the length. Similar in standard I grant you

MonteLDS
03-13-2008, 04:25 PM
I can say that i like both albums, but i kind of like Z better then G.

but it really doesn't matter no does it? everyone has there own taste

brothergoddard
03-13-2008, 04:25 PM
first three songs of gish present a great case for its superior quality but i agree that it has a "hollow core"

SD>MCIS>Zeitgeist>Adore>Gish>Machina + Machina II

brothergoddard
03-13-2008, 04:26 PM
granted twice in length pete, but its quality not quantity...

pete
03-13-2008, 04:27 PM
first three songs of gish present a great case for its superior quality but i agree that it has a "hollow core"

SD>MCIS>Zeitgeist>Adore>Gish>Machina + Machina II

LOL @ machina II...ironic the one good song is called Dross.

Duke
03-13-2008, 04:27 PM
Hard question because I love both of them. It just depends on the mood I'm in. Push comes to shove I'll take Zeitgeist because I like the songwriting and the energy on that album better.

davin
03-13-2008, 04:29 PM
Crush, snail, suffer- never even began to do anything for me. Just a kind of hollow core to the album at tracks 5 6 7. Hence I voted Zeitgeist.

snail? really? :think:

crush, suffer, window paine, daydream...i connected with all of them pretty hard because of some meloncholy things going on in my life in '92.

SpFission
03-13-2008, 04:32 PM
I don't know what's 'better' but I like more songs on Zeitgeist. Rhinoceros and Snail are better anything on Zeitgeist though.

skipgo
03-13-2008, 04:34 PM
snail is easily an all time greatest to me.

brothergoddard
03-13-2008, 04:35 PM
Rhinoceros and Snail are better anything on Zeitgeist though.

cant agree-tarantula is imo a great

redbull
03-13-2008, 04:41 PM
absolutely can put on an album whenever, they have songs for all moods, and true it does ultimately all come down to personal taste.

ouch the poll seems conclusive are you guys not zeitgeist fans?

eat shit

Oposie
03-13-2008, 04:42 PM
I like them lots both, but in general, of their studio albums...SD>MCIS>Zeitgeist>Machina I&II>Gish>Adore.

I surprise myself, typing that almost unconsciously. Zeitgeist ranks higher and is a better record than I thought...hmm. :erm:

I like them all! Okay..?

brothergoddard
03-13-2008, 04:44 PM
[QUOTE=Oposie;3199196]I like them lots both, but in general, of their studio albums...SD>MCIS>Zeitgeist>Machina I&II>Gish>Adore.

QUOTE]

machina I and II ahead of gish and adore. really?

Oposie
03-13-2008, 05:02 PM
machina I and II ahead of gish and adore. really?

Sure, I believe that period of the band to be one of the most creative and musically ambitious. For me, Billy hadn't developed as a lyricist @ the time of Gish (though it rocks) and I'm sorry, but I just do not like Adore @ all. Full stop.

Everything about the Machina era was cool for me, the Drop C tunings, the pretentious song titles, the mystery tale about the themes and meanings of the records..."TEG", "I of the Mourning", "Stand Inside Your Love", "Speed Kills", "If There Is A God", etc. Brilliant stuff, thumping anything on Gish or Adore.

IMHO, of course.

(I'll probably be banned. Adore is not easily criticized in these parts...) :banging::erm:

pete
03-13-2008, 05:13 PM
(I'll probably be banned. Adore is not easily criticized in these parts...) :banging::erm:

What are you talking about?! Nephoria is a generous, forgiving and always welcomes opinions to be expressed.

Oposie
03-13-2008, 05:16 PM
What are you talking about?! Nephoria is a generous, forgiving and always welcomes opinions to be expressed.

I know, but I fear I Adore Adore. She scares me.

pete
03-13-2008, 05:20 PM
I know, but I fear I Adore Adore. She scares me.

Dont worry dude, if she starts giving you beef, I have cousins in Ireland you can stay with them.

greedo
03-13-2008, 07:31 PM
My friends make fun of me and ask me all the time, "Are the Pumpkins the only band you listen to?" (they're not, for the record...) But really, they've been so stylistically diverse that I feel like I can put a Pumpkins album on no matter what mood I'm in.



The same happens to me too...it probably doesn't help that I also listen to a hell of a lot of Zwan and occasionally Billy's solo album.

From what I've heard of it, the new REM album is going to take over in a couple of weeks though...

greedo
03-13-2008, 07:35 PM
Sure, I believe that period of the band to be one of the most creative and musically ambitious. For me, Billy hadn't developed as a lyricist @ the time of Gish (though it rocks) and I'm sorry, but I just do not like Adore @ all. Full stop.

Everything about the Machina era was cool for me, the Drop C tunings, the pretentious song titles, the mystery tale about the themes and meanings of the records..."TEG", "I of the Mourning", "Stand Inside Your Love", "Speed Kills", "If There Is A God", etc. Brilliant stuff, thumping anything on Gish or Adore.

IMHO, of course.

(I'll probably be banned. Adore is not easily criticized in these parts...) :banging::erm:

I'm with you about the Machina stuff. It may shock some of the Nazis around here, but the Machina era is probably the most iconic to me (probably because that's the time I really got into the band big time and started downloading b-sides and bootlegs and videos)

I love Adore, but I like the Machina albums more.

runnersdialzero
03-13-2008, 08:07 PM
this isn't a dumb question, i would say that both albums have about the same number of songs that i dig and do not dig, but i guess gish gets it because of its sincerity.... and psychedelia and non-goo goo dolls production.

SD>MCIS>Adore=Gish>Zeigeist>TFE>Machina II>Machina=Zwan

flyfire
03-13-2008, 08:17 PM
Give me a G...

null123
03-13-2008, 08:22 PM
SD>MCIS>Machina II=Adore>Machina I>Gish>Hybrid Theory>Zeitgeist

maoi
03-13-2008, 08:35 PM
personally i would rank them this way, from best to least best:

Fabulous Muscles
The Airforce
A Promise
Knife Play
Women As Lovers
La Foret

vaccine
03-13-2008, 08:36 PM
SD>MCIS>Adore>PI>Gish>MSOTS>Machina/Machina II>Zeitgeist

Imho.

Nate the Grate
03-13-2008, 08:40 PM
Gish Era is better than Zeitgeist Era

Gish itself, to me, is pretty boring. I dislike a great deal of it. I find Suffer, Crush, Window Paine, and Daydream to be insufferable, and I Am One and Siva are blah. I do like Snail and Bury Me quite a bit. Rhino is brilliant. So, I find half of the album completely unlistenable, so it loses.

And, to pile on, I think Mary Star of the Sea is better than Gish. But not TFE, TFE is the bottom of the barrel.

Ramdust
03-13-2008, 08:48 PM
MCIS=SD=(Drown,Glynis)>Adore=PI>Gish=TAFH=DjaliZwan=Spun>Machina=Machina 2>Zwan>Zeitgeist>TFE

mojo
03-13-2008, 09:20 PM
Gish > SD



ce n'est pas vrai.

dudehitscar
03-13-2008, 10:22 PM
better singing, better production, fresher sound, heartfelt lyrics, great mood on the slow songs, Snail and Siva all put Gish way over Zietgeist.

Gish was my least favorite pumpkin record.. now it's Zeitgeist.

maoi
03-13-2008, 10:52 PM
SD>MCIS>Machina II=Adore>Machina I>Gish>Hybrid Theory>Zeitgeist

man i would not rank machina II or machina I over Gish, but I see that opinion a lot. I think thats the main diverging point among the fans who got into SP early 90s and then those who got into them post adore.

hnibos
03-13-2008, 10:57 PM
I like each sp album less than the previous one. So that would make gish my favorite.

null123
03-14-2008, 12:49 AM
man i would not rank machina II or machina I over Gish, but I see that opinion a lot. I think thats the main diverging point among the fans who got into SP early 90s and then those who got into them post adore.
yeah I just don't like Gish

exactlythesame
03-14-2008, 12:54 AM
I know, but I fear I Adore Adore. She scares me.

adore is appealing to some people because of its atmosphere and departure from previous records

but that's also a sticking point for people that prefer harder rock, which you apparently do

no biggie, just different tastes

personally, adore is my favorite pumpkins record

laaazy
03-14-2008, 01:10 AM
gish=mcis>sd=machina2>tafh>troublizing>pi>machina=adore>z>msots>tfe
i never got into zwan much, so i dont even kno about that

runnersdialzero
03-14-2008, 01:32 AM
the people who prefer machina over gish are an "interesting" crossover of SP fans who probably like linkin park and/or marilyn manson:noway:

Nate the Grate
03-14-2008, 01:57 AM
What?

fishy
03-14-2008, 02:24 AM
Gish over Zeitgeist by a long shot...Bury Me and Rhinocerous are two of my all time favorite SP songs. Nothing on Zeitgeist even cracks my top 10 SP songs...

greedo
03-14-2008, 02:42 AM
the people who prefer machina over gish are an "interesting" crossover of SP fans who probably like linkin park and/or marilyn manson:noway:

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Gish is just amateurish compared to everything Billy has done since. His vocals sound bored (even more so than on Zeitgeist), the riffs are bland, the lyrics are uninteresting, and the production is lacklustre.

Machina sounds more like SD, MCIS, Adore, and Zeitgeist than Gish by a long shot.

Even with the band being as diverse as they are, Gish sounds like another band entirely, while Zeitgeist and Adore just sound like the same band in a different mood (i.e. era, I suppose).

I like Marilyn Manson's Mechanical Animals album (which Billy worked on), but I can't stand Linkin Park.

maoi
03-14-2008, 02:49 AM
yeah I just don't like Gish

<img src="http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music/spzeitgeist.jpg">

null123
03-14-2008, 03:03 AM
what the hell is going on in that picture

runnersdialzero
03-14-2008, 03:21 AM
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Gish is just amateurish compared to everything Billy has done since. His vocals sound bored (even more so than on Zeitgeist), the riffs are bland, the lyrics are uninteresting, and the production is lacklustre.

Machina sounds more like SD, MCIS, Adore, and Zeitgeist than Gish by a long shot.

Even with the band being as diverse as they are, Gish sounds like another band entirely, while Zeitgeist and Adore just sound like the same band in a different mood (i.e. era, I suppose).

I like Marilyn Manson's Mechanical Animals album (which Billy worked on), but I can't stand Linkin Park.

ya huh

r0cket
03-14-2008, 04:21 AM
<img src="http://www.brooklynvegan.com/img/music/spzeitgeist.jpg">

the 3rd chick over has a man face

kingflupps
03-14-2008, 06:12 AM
For me its Zeitgeist but only just, I agree with the 'hollow core' idea with Gish but that compares with the vocal weakness on Zeitgeist. I was initially dissappointed with Zeitgeist but when I heard it live I fell in love with it. Death From Above, Bleeding The Orchid and Starz are all tracks that really blew me away at the gigs that initially dissapointed on the record. Obviously Tarantula is a classic! After the live shows in 2007-08 I really started getting into the album so maybe if I get to see them do some Gish stuff live the same will happen. I've seen the Pumpkins 4 times since the 2000 tour and never heard any Gish apart from Siva. Fingers crossed this 'gish era' thing happens.

MCIS=SD>Adore>Machina=Zeitgeist>Machina2=PI>Gish

Luke de Spa
03-14-2008, 06:23 AM
gish is my favorite pumpkins record.

its also my favorite record of all time, by any band ever. its my "desert island" record...and my "sitting on death row" record.

the music, the lyrics, the song-writing...its the "spirit of the time" for me, with emotional and personal connections galore.

yeah how about those lyrics.

jesus christ

MeAndMyLlama
03-14-2008, 08:08 AM
yeah anyone who is voting for zeitgeist go back and listen to it in 17 years. wont age half as well. gish >>>>>>>>>> zeitgeist

Kahlo
03-14-2008, 08:28 AM
Crush, snail, suffer- never even began to do anything for me. Just a kind of hollow core to the album at tracks 5 6 7. Hence I voted Zeitgeist.

Pete just made me die inside a little bit.

pete
03-14-2008, 08:36 AM
I always give them another chance it seems...I put those 3 tracks on, and I suddenly realise I was meant to be listening to the music as soon as tristessa kicks in.

New Art Rioter
03-14-2008, 08:56 AM
How can anyone not like Snail?! Or Crush or Suffer. That final 3/4 build up in Snail into the last solo and Jimmy's crazy drumming, that's fucking gold right there.

xezton
03-14-2008, 09:27 AM
I picked Gish because I like the solos. The solos in that album, and SD, are probably my favorite guitar solos ever.

As an album in general, I think the two are fairly equal. So kill me.


Since other people did this, I guess I will:

Machina = Adore > MCIS > SD > TFE > Gish = Zeitgeist > Pisces Iscariot > MSOTS > Machina II

redbreegull
03-14-2008, 12:40 PM
I still don't understand this, everything about Zeitgeist is inferior to Gish. The most appealing song on Zeitgeist (which for me is United States) is about 1/10 as creative as my least favorite on Gish, which is Suffer.

Eulogy
03-14-2008, 02:12 PM
man i would not rank machina II or machina I over Gish, but I see that opinion a lot. I think thats the main diverging point among the fans who got into SP early 90s and then those who got into them post adore.

yeah...i got into them with machina, essentially. i had always liked them but i was young and into other things until i got heavily into machina. and i wouldn't immediately rate gish higher than machina. it's a really tough call because i think they're so vastly different that it's hard to compare them. i will say that there is nothing as "good" as SIYL or AOI on Gish. but there's nothing as mediocre as CTOM or BSBT on Gish.

Eulogy
03-14-2008, 02:12 PM
actually scratch that, Bury Me is in the same league as SIYL and AOI

Eulogy
03-14-2008, 02:13 PM
hell maybe even Rhino. geh. and Snail too. maybe i am one and siva

alright nevermind i don't know what i'm talking about.

Eulogy
03-14-2008, 02:15 PM
they're both clearly better than zeitgeist though. and i like zeitgeist a lot.

redhawk
03-14-2008, 02:29 PM
SD>Gish
Zeitgeist>SD
Gish>Zeitgeist

smashingjj
03-14-2008, 02:41 PM
FUCK

sherm
03-14-2008, 03:02 PM
snail is awesome clearly. the guitar on that album is the shat. i also really dig much of the mashed potatoes/reel time work (egg, moleasskiss,east, c'mon, wave song, etc.)

PI>SD=MCIS/TAFH>Gish>Machina II>Adore>MSOTS>Machina

Very little seperation though. Its all amazing in its on way. Typically non-album or b-side material is more enjoyable though for me.

AndySlash
03-14-2008, 05:59 PM
re: repeated text posts that take up 1,065,565,645 lines of the page

please stop. Remember, the rule on this particular part of the board is not to make threads unreadable and, while not exactly fucking the thread up, it sure does make it shitty to read.

pale blue eyes
03-14-2008, 06:28 PM
Gish isn't perfect, but it's got heart. Some umph. Energy, whatever you want to call it. Within the best moments in Gish are exactly what is missing throughout all of Zeitgeist.

greedo
03-14-2008, 07:38 PM
I still don't understand this, everything about Zeitgeist is inferior to Gish. The most appealing song on Zeitgeist (which for me is United States) is about 1/10 as creative as my least favorite on Gish, which is Suffer.

That depends on your definition of 'creative' vs 'wanky'.

On Gish Billy is trying so hard to be cool/creative/unique, but it comes across (to me at least) as affected. Zeitgeist comes across to me as Billy and Jimmy doing what they want to do with no concern for whether the audience is there or not. Much more 'honest', and that translates in the music to my ears.

Let's face it, they knew they could have created a more successful (both critically and in sales) album if they had wanted to.

That's not so say Zeitgeist is up there with MCIS or Machina.

stumpycat
03-15-2008, 12:56 AM
There specifically seems to be very little love for a song like Suffer. Why is this? It's such a moody and atmospheric song, and the recorder solo really works well to take the mood to the next level in a pleasantly unexpected but perfectly fitting manner.

smashingjj
03-15-2008, 07:53 AM
i love suffer

Gish08
03-15-2008, 11:35 AM
Gish- tracks 5-10 are hardly amazing

Bullshit.

redbreegull
03-15-2008, 02:17 PM
Let's face it, they knew they could have created a more successful (both critically and in sales) album if they had wanted to.

That's not so say Zeitgeist is up there with MCIS or Machina.

Are you serious? Zeitgeist was pretty much written to cater directly to the rock charts. It is by far the most "mainstream" sounding Pumpkins record.

And Gish is about a hundred times better than machina.

cork_soaker
03-15-2008, 02:23 PM
NUH-UUUUUUUUH! :D



It is really hard to say which SP albums are "better" than which, because they really are all very different. It all comes down to personal taste.

My friends make fun of me and ask me all the time, "Are the Pumpkins the only band you listen to?" (they're not, for the record...) But really, they've been so stylistically diverse that I feel like I can put a Pumpkins album on no matter what mood I'm in. I can't say that about a lot of bands. There are definitely days that I'd rather listen to SD than Gish, but overall I find myself enjoying Gish more.



Now see, I've never really been crazy about Today. It was one of the first songs I heard by the Pumpkins (I downloaded a bunch of random tunes when I first got into them), and even before I knew it was "uncool" to love "Today," I didn't really like it. I didn't DISLIKE it, but it never did much for me.

different strokes for different folks.

but how do you feel about adore?

themadcaplaughs
03-15-2008, 03:55 PM
There specifically seems to be very little love for a song like Suffer. Why is this? It's such a moody and atmospheric song, and the recorder solo really works well to take the mood to the next level in a pleasantly unexpected but perfectly fitting manner.

Forgot about that aspect of "Suffer." That recorder solo kind of reminds me of the violin part in Superchrist in terms of "did I jsut hear that?"

As for Gish, whatever mediocrity liesi n tracks 4-7, I Am One, Siva, Rhinoceros, and Window Paine all make up for it.

davin
03-15-2008, 05:54 PM
yeah how about those lyrics.

jesus christ

:Stupid:

davin
03-15-2008, 05:57 PM
How can anyone not like Snail?! Or Crush or Suffer. That final 3/4 build up in Snail into the last solo and Jimmy's crazy drumming, that's fucking gold right there.

thats what i'm saying... :erm:

hnibos
03-15-2008, 06:52 PM
this is really a litmus test to see if youre retarded

Cool As Ice Cream
03-15-2008, 06:54 PM
LITMUS LOL!

arCHI
03-15-2008, 09:17 PM
maybe i got into the pumpkins too late to really relate to gish. i mean, i used to love to play gish songs on the guitar, but the album never really grabbed me on a personal level. zeitgeist doesnt really grab me on a personal level either, though, but i feel like some of the songs are a bit more heartfelt. i know crazy right? gish seems kind of emotionless to me.

the thing about zeitgeist is i dont feel like it was bold musically. gish was more adventurous in its day, and for that i give it credit and my vote. plus snail is fucking amazing.

to me, the pumpkins really came into their own after gish with the pre-SD stuff.

yoshinobu's revenge
03-15-2008, 11:09 PM
gish is my favorite pumpkins record.

its also my favorite record of all time, by any band ever. its my "desert island" record...and my "sitting on death row" record.

the music, the lyrics, the song-writing...its the "spirit of the time" for me, with emotional and personal connections galore.

yup ^

Luke de Spa
03-15-2008, 11:44 PM
:Stupid:
right, i forgot you think shit like this is clever and unbeatable

stumpycat
03-16-2008, 12:04 AM
Forgot about that aspect of "Suffer." That recorder solo kind of reminds me of the violin part in Superchrist in terms of "did I jsut hear that?"

I did consider that analogy...but I decided against it, and here's why: because (for me, at least) it actually "works" musically. Although the recorder melody could be considered somewhat unusual it doesn't just sound like someone decided to splice a random interlude into the middle of the song. Note that the backing instrumentation and song rhythm never actually disappear from the background, despite the novel presence of the flute in the foreground.
The way it breaks in reminds me more of that reverb-drenched "solo" melody in LaDollyVita.

Eulogy
03-16-2008, 11:18 AM
As for Gish, whatever mediocrity liesi n tracks 4-7

you do realize that Bury Me is track 4 and Snail is track 7, right?

sneakyflutes
03-16-2008, 10:58 PM
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Gish is just amateurish compared to everything Billy has done since. His vocals sound bored (even more so than on Zeitgeist), the riffs are bland, the lyrics are uninteresting, and the production is lacklustre.


You are a fucking idiot.

IWishIWasBlank
03-16-2008, 10:59 PM
I see what you mean about the rawness of the album (gish)

This is what made Gish so great. You probably won't hear another studio album with this type of content ever again. Labels won't allow it.

IWishIWasBlank
03-16-2008, 11:09 PM
How can anyone not like Snail?! Or Crush or Suffer. That final 3/4 build up in Snail into the last solo and Jimmy's crazy drumming, that's fucking gold right there.

Jimmy. Yes.

stumpycat
03-16-2008, 11:55 PM
This is what made Gish so great. You probably won't hear another studio album with this type of content ever again. Labels won't allow it.

It's well produced rawness. That's why the production appears so "seamless" and really lets the instruments shine through.

Spira|_
03-17-2008, 07:23 AM
MCIS>SD>MachinaI>MachinaII>Adore>Gish>PI>Zwan>TFE>all demos, all unedited stuff, anything Billy did at home, at toillet whatever> Zeitgeist


p.s. SD>MachinaI>MachinaII>Adore>Gish>PI ... this ones I love them all, for me it is unfair compare them... thats why I fucking LOVE Smashing Pumpkins ^^

redbreegull
03-17-2008, 08:49 AM
maybe i got into the pumpkins too late to really relate to gish. i mean, i used to love to play gish songs on the guitar, but the album never really grabbed me on a personal level. zeitgeist doesnt really grab me on a personal level either, though, but i feel like some of the songs are a bit more heartfelt. i know crazy right? gish seems kind of emotionless to me.

the thing about zeitgeist is i dont feel like it was bold musically. gish was more adventurous in its day, and for that i give it credit and my vote. plus snail is fucking amazing.

to me, the pumpkins really came into their own after gish with the pre-SD stuff.

For me Gish sort of paints the perfect picture of where the band was at right at that time. Compared to their early "new wave" music it had already come a long way and was the result of quite a lot of maturing. It's a bit simple when held against the following three albums, but it's very beautiful in that simplicity. I have always liked the lyrics too.

Maybe Zeitgeist is a portrait of the band right now too, but that would be a portrait of two forty year olds playing 6 minute songs consisting of only the open D chord on baritone guitars.

Ruby_Girl
04-23-2008, 03:45 PM
Of course Gish wins, it's vintage now!!!
Zeitgeist was good too, but all the songs (except the last one) where kinda in the same vibe... it didn't have interesting differences among its songs, as almost all the previous SP albums...

IWishIWasBlank
04-23-2008, 09:18 PM
Lobsters love Guinness, but not as much as melted butter.

minaloy
07-08-2008, 10:23 AM
gish is an aweosme album but i'll have to give the nod to zeitgeist.

Kahlo
07-08-2008, 10:26 AM
quick someone ban the troll

skipgo
07-08-2008, 05:09 PM
wait nevermind.

Banana
07-08-2008, 05:25 PM
MSOTS is not better than Zeitgeist.

It has one good song and the rest are complete shit.

SpFission
07-08-2008, 06:43 PM
I need to change my vote to Gish..

Z is still better than Machina though.

slunken
07-08-2008, 06:50 PM
so basically davin prefers gish because it IS zeitgeist

Corgan Rules
07-08-2008, 07:43 PM
Both albums are good, however, I think Zeitgeist is the better album!

Gish08
07-25-2008, 12:30 AM
How could anyone seriously make this thread?

Gish vs. Zeitgeist?

Zeitgeist has its moments, but it doesn't touch Gish.

davin
07-25-2008, 01:14 AM
so basically davin prefers gish because it IS zeitgeist

a zeigeist, in a sense. sure.

dreams of glass
10-23-2014, 01:03 AM
How is this even a question.

Shallowed
10-23-2014, 01:16 AM
Yeah fuck you OP. I know you're reading this.

Fonzie
10-23-2014, 01:40 AM
snail is easily an all time greatest to me.

I listened to 'Snail' the other day and my first thought was "this is so much better than that new song".

Fonzie
10-23-2014, 01:42 AM
How could anyone seriously make this thread?

Gish vs. Zeitgeist?

Zeitgeist has its moments, but it doesn't touch Gish.

You'll never see a Zeitgeist08 post here.

ninsp
10-23-2014, 10:35 AM
How is this even a question.

Because Gish is pretty trash. So is Zeitgeist.

Ram27
10-23-2014, 12:03 PM
Anyone who voted for ZG is a blasphemer

dodoz
10-23-2014, 09:36 PM
Oh come on, this is a no brainer.
I've met so many people who couldn't get into "Gish" and I still don't understand. Is it a difficult album ? Not at all. I still get lost in "Gish", it's so adventurous, hypnotic and beautiful. How can you go wrong with an album that has "Rhinoceros", "Crush", "Siva", "Suffer", "Daydream"...It's an amazing debut album. With a very personal heavy and psychedelic sound. And I love "I'm going crazy" too - The Pumpkins never did the ghost track thing again, when everybody started doing it post-"Nevermind"!

Ram27
10-23-2014, 09:48 PM
LMGTWTY was a ghost track on Adore

it's just that all the untr00 fans turned the CD off after 17

toase
10-23-2014, 10:00 PM
This is officially the oboard

ninsp
10-24-2014, 10:17 AM
Oh come on, this is a no brainer.
I've met so many people who couldn't get into "Gish" and I still don't understand. Is it a difficult album ? Not at all. I still get lost in "Gish", it's so adventurous, hypnotic and beautiful. How can you go wrong with an album that has "Rhinoceros", "Crush", "Siva", "Suffer", "Daydream"...It's an amazing debut album. With a very personal heavy and psychedelic sound. And I love "I'm going crazy" too - The Pumpkins never did the ghost track thing again, when everybody started doing it post-"Nevermind"!

Because it's boring, dated and has no hooks

dodoz
10-24-2014, 10:41 AM
Boring, dated, no hooks? Zeitgeist.
Unless people think that "that's the way my love is" is hooky as well as "ow! ow! ow! We are starz. We are. We are starz. We are. We are starz. We are".

ninsp
10-24-2014, 12:29 PM
Boring, dated, no hooks? Zeitgeist.
Unless people think that "that's the way my love is" is hooky as well as "ow! ow! ow! We are starz. We are. We are starz. We are. We are starz. We are".

Exactly. Zeitgeist is just a modern revisiting of Gish.

Shallowed
10-24-2014, 10:12 PM
Why the fuck has everyone been bringing up hooks when discussing music all of a sudden?

Trotskilicious
10-24-2014, 10:18 PM
I have a similar question:

Would you rather get cancer or ice cream?

Shallowed
10-24-2014, 10:19 PM
My teeth are too sensitive to eat ice cream so I'll have to go with cancer.

Trotskilicious
10-24-2014, 10:20 PM
Exactly. Zeitgeist is just a modern revisiting of Gish.

How much do you like tool with one being not at all and 10 being "i would suck maynards dick if i had the chance"

Kahlo
10-25-2014, 02:36 PM
I think for tool fans that level (10) is probably more around the 5 mark.

Trotskilicious
10-25-2014, 08:20 PM
Youre right

Trotskilicious
10-25-2014, 09:33 PM
Christjdsus you were muted so posting under your "hilarious" sockpuppet is pointless

ninsp
10-26-2014, 10:16 AM
Christjdsus you were muted so posting under your "hilarious" sockpuppet is pointless

Ha, pretty sure over the years I've been called 30 different users alt accounts.

Also I don't really like Tool. Few songs are OK. Saw them live years ago and it was so bad I can barely stomach their stuff anymore.