http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88085760


Vatican Includes Drugs and Wealth in New Sin List


Day to Day, March 11, 2008 · In an effort to appeal to the modern Catholic, the Vatican has announced a list of seven new mortal sins. Some of the new don'ts: thou shalt not pollute and thou shalt not have too much money.

Madeleine Brand speaks with Father James Martin, acting publisher of the Jesuit magazine America, about the importance of updating the 1,500-year-old sin list.

"I think it's to remind people that sins are not just individual," he says referring to the Catholic church's old seven deadly sins — lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy and pride. "There's also social sins .. .sins that affect the community at large and sins that an institution can engage in."

The New Mortal Sins

1.) genetic modification

2.) carrying out experiments on humans

3.) polluting the environment

4.) causing social injustice

5.) causing poverty

6.) becoming obscenely wealthy

7.) taking drugs

i like how they throw in the "obscenely" qualifier. jesus didn't ever use that!

...oh but these are "mortal" sins. so becoming just plain wealthy is just a venial sin, i guess?

going to go commit all the new sins asap. bbl

ad 7) Fucking hypocrites. Frankincense contains THC, and drug-enhanced worshiping was common even in the early Christian communities.

ad 6) Again, fucking hypocrites. The church sent me about seven letters wanting my money [yes, there's a tax for that in Austria] even after I resigned from that phony club.

I can't get over the fact that religious groups are still so goddamn [heh] powerful in the year 2008. Ugh.

i saw this on the news, too.

good stuff. but i dont really agree. keep the commandments as they are. stop messing with the church. they arent god or anything!

commandment one is
-thou shall have no other gods before me
and i think two
-thou shall not make thyself an idol.. or something like that

fuck these new mortal sins

ad 7) Fucking hypocrites. Frankincense contains THC, and drug-enhanced worshiping was common even in the early Christian communities.

ad 6) Again, fucking hypocrites. The church sent me about seven letters wanting my money [yes, there's a tax for that in Austria] even after I resigned from that phony club.

I can't get over the fact that religious groups are still so goddamn [heh] powerful in the year 2008. Ugh.

well i don't think they make a point to inhale or ingest the frankincense. also, the church (uh, technically) uses the money it gets to further its righteous purposes. not so that the bishops can drive around in bentleys or something.

let's stick to the totally valid criticisms.

i saw this on the news, too.

good stuff. but i dont really agree. keep the commandments as they are. stop messing with the church. they arent god or anything!

commandment one is
-thou shall have no other gods before me
and i think two
-thou shall not make thyself an idol.. or something like that

fuck these new mortal sins

mortal sins are not the same thing as commandments. and the pope is infallible. so, you know. what he says goes.

Rather uninformed on both points bucko!

bishops in bentleys.

the pope isnt god! he is fallible. im not gonna worship anyone but god. COMMANDMENT NUMERO UNO!

One in four popes have STDs.

Rather uninformed on both points bucko!

uh, yeah? how so?

i didn't mean to imply that church funds are always used properly. but that's the idea. and the idea isn't inherently hypocritical.

well i don't think they make a point to inhale or ingest the frankincense. also, the church (uh, technically) uses the money it gets to further its righteous purposes. not so that the bishops can drive around in bentleys or something.

let's stick to the totally valid criticisms.

Of course not - but using something that could be used to get high and then damning exactly that...
Also, I don't give a shit what the Church uses the money for - the fact that I have to pay them [by law!] is enough to make me angry. It's not like I had a choice whether or not I wanted to be part of that bullshit religion or not. Fucking crooks.

the pope isnt god! he is fallible. im not gonna worship anyone but god. COMMANDMENT NUMERO UNO!

if you're catholic, the pope is infallible. if you're not catholic, then you have no reason to give a shit. also, being infallible does not mean you are to be worshiped.

THC laden oils applied to the skin get you high.

the fact that I have to pay them [by law!] is enough to make me angry.

wait, what? what law?

THC laden oils applied to the skin get you high.

uh

yeah, and? is this some sort of secret catholic higher-up ritual i haven't heard of?

Again, only in Austria [if you're part of their crazy club]. And I was, until I resigned. Yet they still send me letters stating that I 'owe' them cash. FUCK YOU, NO I DON'T.

Again, only in Austria [if you're part of their crazy club]. And I was, until I resigned. Yet they still send me letters stating that I 'owe' them cash. FUCK YOU, NO I DON'T.

so the catholic church of austria forces you to give them money in order to be considered a member?

that's a problem with austria, not with the church, isn't it?

if you're catholic, the pope is infallible. if you're not catholic, then you have no reason to give a shit. also, being infallible does not mean you are to be worshiped.

im not gonna listen to him. i dont need an old fart telling me not to litter or perform experiments on humans. so i guess he approves of experimenting on animals. i dont like that.

if i wanna be rich and do drugs that's my prerogative. shut up, eulogy.

im not gonna listen to him. i dont need an old fart telling me not to litter or perform experiments on humans. so i guess he approves of experimenting on animals. i dont like that.

if i wanna be rich and do drugs that's my prerogative. shut up, eulogy.

no shit, i'm not saying otherwise.

are you catholic? if you're catholic and don't agree with the church (on basic, fundamental stuff like this on which there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room), then you're not really catholic.

i don't get why this is so difficult for people to comprehend. your world won't come crashing down if you discover that you might not be a catholic in a really pure sense.

so the catholic church of austria forces you to give them money in order to be considered a member?

that's a problem with austria, not with the church, isn't it?

Actually that's a problem with the Church in Austria.

But whatever, I'm just glad I'm no longer part of all that, even if it breaks my grandma's heart.

/Antipop out.

edit: to lauren

i mean, christ, find a liberal christian church (the united church of christ is a good one, i believe) and then you won't have to worry about being a walking contradiction.

mortal sins are not the same thing as commandments. and the pope is inflatable.

.

mortal sins are not the same thing as commandments. and the pope is infallible. so, you know. what he says goes.

Also nowhere does it list these sins as mortal

Wait, I'm a little confused by antipop's Austria forced payment thing

Actually that's a problem with the Church in Austria.

But whatever, I'm just glad I'm no longer part of all that, even if it breaks my grandma's heart.

/Antipop out.

What Church is it? Roman Catholic?

What Church is it? Roman Catholic?

Recognition as a religious society under the 1874 law has wide-ranging implications, such as the authority to participate in the mandatory church contributions program, to provide religious instruction in public schools, and to bring into the country religious workers to act as ministers, missionaries, or teachers.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35439.htm

i guess that indicates that the roman catholic church of austria could do that. but it doesn't mention whether or not it does.

Yep, Roman Catholic. Thanks to the Concordat of 1933 [that's right, a law passed during an era of fascism is still legit].

no shit, i'm not saying otherwise.

are you catholic? if you're catholic and don't agree with the church (on basic, fundamental stuff like this on which there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room), then you're not really catholic.

i don't get why this is so difficult for people to comprehend. your world won't come crashing down if you discover that you might not be a catholic in a really pure sense.
whatever, i agree with the church. you have some nerve telling me to change my religion just because i dont agree with a new set or mortal sins a bunch of dudes came up with. i also thought it was stupid when the church just decided that pergatory didnt exist anymore.

you're just some stupid agnostic trying to be a little smart-ass. so bite me.

Also nowhere does it list these sins as mortal

"the Vatican has announced a list of seven new mortal sins"
"The New Mortal Sins"
?

whatever, i agree with the church. you have some nerve telling me to change my religion just because i dont agree with a new set or mortal sins a bunch of dudes came up with. i also thought it was stupid when the church just decided that pergatory didnt exist anymore.

lauren you cannot be this dense.

holy shit. do you even know anything about the church you belong to?

wtf how is #6 a sin

"the Vatican has announced a list of seven new mortal sins"
"The New Mortal Sins"
?

a cursory glance at google makes it appear as though whoever wrote this version of it tossed that word in there.

not sure though.

you worship the smashing pumpkins but you dont like all their songs. f off, you little punk.

wtf how is #6 a sin

that's not new at all. look at the gospels dude. "easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven" or whatever.

you worship the smashing pumpkins but you dont like all their songs. f off, you little punk.

well i do pretty much like all their songs

but no, i don't worship them or anything else. you have no understanding of the concept of your religion.

there's a lot of people like you though. so whatever. go for it. be totally contradictory in what is supposed to be the most important thing in your life. doesn't affect me.

wait a minute... we're already on page two of a religion related thread and sleeper is nowhere to be found. somethin' aint right.

"the Vatican has announced a list of seven new mortal sins"
"The New Mortal Sins"
?

the only place i've seen them listed as "mortal" are on the npr report.

page one, dude

40 pppg

In other funny Catholic news: They're planning to erect a statue of fucking Galileo Galilei [that's right] in some Vatican garden. Hilarious.

that's not new at all. look at the gospels dude. "easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven" or whatever.

that doesn't answer my question

pay him no mind, julio. he's just some drunk kid.

also, the church (uh, technically) uses the money it gets to further its righteous purposes. not so that the bishops can drive around in bentleys or something.


That would probably fall under the category of greed or pride - these "new" sins state "becoming obscenely wealthy". No mention of how the money will be spent.

The Vatican making becoming obscenely wealthy a sin. HAHAHAHA

that doesn't answer my question

because you're supposed to care for the poor. if you're wealthy, you've got more money than you need. you should give it up to the plenty of people that do need it.

who was the moral philosopher guy that actually encouraged (or at least put the idea out there) people to actually do this? i can't remember his name.

pay him no mind, julio. he's just some drunk kid.

you have yet to respond to anything i said with even the mildest bit of intelligence.

i dont need to say anything intelligent. there isnt a formula you need to understand to know that the church has changed things around to please certain people. i think purgatory still exists... that doesnt mean im a heathen. the church just needs to stick to how it was in the first place and stop changing things up.

goddammit, catholicism gets on my nerves.

i was raised catholic, went to catholic school for 12 years, was confirmed and all of that. i still have a soft spot in my heart for it, but fucking hell does it piss me off.

go drink some vodka, you big brat.

the church just needs to stick to how it was in the first place and stop changing things up.

if that were the case, then priests could get married and would probably stop touching little boys... as much.

you have yet to respond to anything i said with even the mildest bit of intelligence.

Who cares? Lay off her already. She's a cafeteria Catholic. What's so bad about that? Better than being a fundamentalist right?

i dont need to say anything intelligent. there isnt a formula you need to understand to know that the church has changed things around to please certain people. i think purgatory still exists... that doesnt mean im a heathen. the church just needs to stick to how it was in the first place and stop changing things up.

So, you're basically saying that there shouldn't be any changes made to the Catholic dogma whatsoever?

I think it's amazing how many people willingly let their life and their decisions be influenced by fear ["I think purgatory still exists"].
BTW, Lauren - the Church never said that purgatory doesn't exist anymore, the Pope just sent out a memo stating that newborns don't go there in case they die before they're "saved".

think of the children!

goddammit, catholicism gets on my nerves.

i was raised catholic, went to catholic school for 12 years, was confirmed and all of that. i still have a soft spot in my heart for it, but fucking hell does it piss me off.

I sorta liked the pagentry of it. I liked belonging to a tradition and all that but I have no use for its rules or guidance. But that was when I was a kid. I guess I only miss it in the way I miss dressing up for Halloween. There's a church here in So Cal that does mass the old school way. I'm talking like 16th century style, done in latin and everything. I wanna check it out.

yo soy, you are clearly stating you are not happy with the catholic church, yet you still say youre catholic? its cool and all, dont get me wrong, to believe what you want to believe, but why must you insist that youre catholic then? titles are so dumb anyways.

im just not happy that a new list of mortal sins can be added just like that. and that purgatory was said to not exist anymore ... i dont even know why they did that. gah and the new mortal sins doesnt even say it's immoral to experiment on animals. just humans. animals are gods creatures too!

yeah, but animals don't have souls, remember?

well, this is what the pope says, and, correct me if im wrong, if you go agaisnt it you can be excommunicated from your precious little church.

again, i applaude you for not being so stupid and going along with w/e youre told to believe

So, you're basically saying that there shouldn't be any changes made to the Catholic dogma whatsoever?

I think it's amazing how many people willingly let their life and their decisions be influenced by fear ["I think purgatory still exists"].
BTW, Lauren - the Church never said that purgatory doesn't exist anymore, the Pope just sent out a memo stating that newborns don't go there in case they die before they're "saved".

That was Limbo. Please get your facts straight before you try to come off as an authority

That was Limbo. Please get your facts straight before you try to come off as an authority

That's exactly what I was telling her. :think:

Sequel to the movie Se7en? I think so!

I sorta liked the pagentry of it. I liked belonging to a tradition and all that but I have no use for its rules or guidance. But that was when I was a kid. I guess I only miss it in the way I miss dressing up for Halloween. There's a church here in So Cal that does mass the old school way. I'm talking like 16th century style, done in latin and everything. I wanna check it out.

I always wanted to go to a more traditional church when I was a Christian, with all the beautiful rituals. Christmas service was the only somewhat cool tradition we had.

BTW, Lauren - the Church never said that purgatory doesn't exist anymore, the Pope just sent out a memo stating that newborns don't go there in case they die before they're "saved".
sent out a memo? lol

wtf .a baby hasnt committed any type of sin so it has sanctifying grace and wont have to spend a long time in pergatory. it's just a purification process.

the pope isnt god! he is fallible. im not gonna worship anyone but god. COMMANDMENT NUMERO UNO!

Unless god spoke to you and gave you the commandments personally, you're still basing that faith in something a man said.

sent out a memo? lol

wtf .a baby hasnt committed any type of sin so it has sanctifying grace and wont have to spend a long time in pergatory. it's just a purification process.you're forgetting the original sin. being born.

you're forgetting the original sin. being born.

uhhh.... that's not what original sin is.

uhhh.... that's not what original sin is.no, i know that, i was just being sarcastic

you worship the smashing pumpkins but you dont like all their songs. f off, you little punk.

best analogy ever

the fact that people base their entire lives around this bullshit really makes me laugh alot

Who cares? Lay off her already. She's a cafeteria Catholic. What's so bad about that? Better than being a fundamentalist right?

yeah it's better than being a fundamentalist. doesn't mean i'm not going to point out that it's wrong and stupid. she has absolutely no idea what she's talking about, and it frustrates me that people go through life so clueless with regard to what they pretend to consider most important. i know you like her and all, and i do too for the most part, but this is just idiotic. just because a lot of people do it doesn't mean it's not idiotic.

i dont need to say anything intelligent. there isnt a formula you need to understand to know that the church has changed things around to please certain people. i think purgatory still exists... that doesnt mean im a heathen. the church just needs to stick to how it was in the first place and stop changing things up.

arrrggggghhhhhhh

this is like talking to a brick wall.

I wonder if she's against vatican II..

lol

Do Skittles. Go to jail.

Student suspended for buying Skittles at school

NEW HAVEN, Connecticut (AP) -- Contraband candy has led to big trouble for an eighth-grade honors student in Connecticut.

Michael Sheridan was stripped of his title as class vice president, barred from attending an honors student dinner and suspended for a day after buying a bag of Skittles from a classmate.

School spokeswoman Catherine Sullivan-DeCarlo says the New Haven school system banned candy sales in 2003 as part of a districtwide school wellness policy.

Michael's suspension has been reduced from three days to one, but he has not been reinstated as class vice president.

He says he didn't realize his candy purchase was against the rules -- although he did notice the student selling the Skittles on February 26 was being secretive.

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

8.) Thou shall not blab if thine priest sticketh his phallus betwixt thine cheeks.

Who cares? Lay off her already. She's a cafeteria Catholic. What's so bad about that? Better than being a fundamentalist right?

actually, i'd rather someone be full speed ahead with their beliefs than a sampler/picker and chooser.

i have tons more respect for my jehovah's witness boss because there is no doubt that he believes what he believes. i'm actually going to the kingdom hall celebration (for easter, but not in name) on the 22nd.

if he was to pick and choose which rules of his church he followed, i wouldn't give him the time of day.

if he was to pick and choose which rules of his church he followed, i wouldn't give him the time of day.

well that seems a little strange

yeah, i don't really follow.

i mean i'll try to tell lauren what i think about this topic, but i'm not writing her off as a person based solely on her posts in this thread. sheesh.

7.) taking drugs

So...

catholicism == scientology

yeah, hard to even know where to start with that one

So...

catholicism == scientology

oh come on, that's not even fair.

or funny.

let me spell it out:
i have more respect for someone who calls themselves Jehovah's Witness (or whatever your choice may be) and follow the rules of the Jehovah's Witness community, then say someone like my ex who called herself Catholic til she was blue in the face, but she knew nothing about the any of the teachings.

i mean i'll try to tell lauren what i think about this topic, but i'm not writing her off as a person based solely on her posts in this thread. sheesh.

and i'm not writing anyone off. i just think it's strange that julio would prefer someone who was flip-floppy in what they believe according to their professed faith, as opposed to someone who called themselves something and followed exactly what it means.

and i'm not writing anyone off. i just think it's strange that julio would prefer someone who was flip-floppy in what they believe according to their professed faith, as opposed to someone who called themselves something and followed exactly what it means.

well because generally it indicates a willingness to figure things out for oneself instead of just going along with what far-away church leaders decide for you.

essentially, this is just another one of my problems with religion. it just doesn't add up properly to me.

if you're selectively following the Bible it's likely that you don't really believe in it at all. why is the Bible *the authority of God's word* when it's a message you like, and then outdated and wrong when it's not? and if you're just doing what you want and believing what you want anyway, what role is religion really playing?

why not just quit?

that said D is a big fat fornicating coke-snorting hypocrite anyway

...and i said you were writing people off because you said you "wouldn't give them the time of day."

well because generally it indicates a willingness to figure things out for oneself instead of just going along with what far-away church leaders decide for you.
i understand this point of view, totally, but like you said, a catholic isn't a catholic if they don't follow the rules, right?


essentially, this is just another one of my problems with religion. it just doesn't add up properly to me.
i understand where you're coming from, though, from previous discussions.

that said D is a big fat fornicating coke-snorting hypocrite anyway
when did i ever say i was not guilty of this myself?

...and i said you were writing people off because you said you "wouldn't give them the time of day."
i guess what i meant was that i wouldn't take their word as, i dunno the word, seriously? i guess i shouldn't have phrased it like i did.

<img src = "http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c375/jadedclothing/tish121small.jpg">

no i haven't forgotte

Have you forgotte an n?

i sometimes forget D. is batshit crazy

i sometimes forget D. is batshit crazy

i just can't handle truth.:(

and i'm not writing anyone off. i just think it's strange that julio would prefer someone who was flip-floppy in what they believe according to their professed faith, as opposed to someone who called themselves something and followed exactly what it means.

lauren doesnt seem very preachy about it. if she was going on and on about religion then id think she was a hypocrite but she just seems to be one of those people that says shes a catholic because she was raised that way and just generally believes in
God. i dont think theres too much harm in that. and julio has a soft spot for lauren so he wont pounce on her (not in this way at least) when shes comes off a bit ignorant.

nothing julio does anymore should be considered strange anyway

suckers

That's exactly what I was telling her. :think:
Actually you were telling her that the Pope sent out some memo saying that "babies don't go to Purgatory" when that entire discussion had to do with Limbo, not Purgatory, and Limbo was kind of a barely recognized and conveniently invented location that is not said to exist anymore.

wait a minute... we're already on page two of a religion related thread and sleeper is nowhere to be found. somethin' aint right.

that's usually because I turn on the sleeper bat signal for these events. but meh, i don't think its worth it. the posts speak for themselves. having somebody come in to point out the idiocy would be redundant.

Actually you were telling her that the Pope sent out some memo saying that "babies don't go to Purgatory" when that entire discussion had to do with Limbo, not Purgatory, and Limbo was kind of a barely recognized and conveniently invented location that is not said to exist anymore.

Yeah, I didn't know the exact vocabulary - I was trying to get that difference across, as Lauren was only talking about purgatory. I obviously failed.

Yeah, I didn't know the exact vocabulary - I was trying to get that difference across, as Lauren was only talking about purgatory. I obviously failed.

If its any consolation, you were both wrong

i sometimes forget D. is batshit crazy

not crazy, just really stupid.

that's what i meant but i don't have the heart to be as mean as you

yes you do

so the catholic church of austria forces you to give them money in order to be considered a member?


the german one does too actually

i think most recognised churches in germany do this

^are these churches tax exempt?

the german one does too actually

i think most recognised churches in germany do this

who do they think they are, MORMONS?!

not crazy, just really stupid.
yeah im sorry for expecting someone who calls themselves catholic to at least know the ten commandments.

yeah, d has done drugs, yada yada, but i mean, come on, even most non-religious people know that.

the fact that people base their entire lives around this bullshit really makes me laugh alot

yeah but who does that. most people just spice up their regular, secular life with a bit of superstition here and there for good measure. who actually tries to see god's will in everything that happens around them or constantly reflects on whether their current actions would count as sins

i guess some people do, but they're the minority

^are these churches tax exempt?

i think so, yes.

yeah but who does that. most people just spice up their regular, secular life with a bit of superstition here and there for good measure. who actually tries to see god's will in everything that happens around them or constantly reflects on whether their current actions would count as sins

i guess some people do, but they're the minority

mayday

I'm not going to read this whole thread, but that original article is bunk:

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=57130

man i went to church tonight and this little kid sitting behind me totally threw up. it was both hilarious and sad.

i bet it was also ironic

6.) becoming obscenely wealthy

hahahahahahahahaha the catholic church? saying this? fucking hilarious! Holy SHIT. Where do they get the BALLS?

<img src="http://z.about.com/d/goitaly/1/0/r/3/-/-/st-peters-basilica.jpg">

<img src="http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/051111/051111_popeInt_vmed_3p.widec.jpg">

High res picture of the pulpit. And yes, that gold trimming is actual GOLD. Most of it plundered and gleaned through war and oppression. (http://www.birchimages.co.uk/galleryimages/Rome11%20copy.JPG)

etc.

fuck them. goddamnit.

that altar's overall grandiosity is perfectly justified in relation to god's overall grandiosity dude

yeah i'm sure all the people they stole from feel the same way

most of that was paid for through indulgences if i remember correctly

Pretty much. Thank God Martin Luther showed the world that the House of God might just as well look boring and dull.
I guess working in a plain church is a lot easier to bear if you don't have to compensate for celibacy with crazy amounts of gold.

so you think that column in trotskilicious' first pic is in fact a subconsciously phallic figure?

Who cares? Lay off her already. She's a cafeteria Catholic. What's so bad about that? Better than being a fundamentalist right?

Better perhaps, but let's not pretend that even this level of ill-informed superstition is harmless.

I'm not going to read this whole thread, but that original article is bunk:

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=57130

<requoting>

man i went to church tonight and this little kid sitting behind me totally threw up. it was both hilarious and sad.

the story would still be hilarious and sad without the part about the kid throwing up.

In other funny Catholic news: They're planning to erect a statue of fucking Galileo Galilei [that's right] in some Vatican garden. Hilarious.

Catholics and their statues, outright idolatry. All the statues of mary and the saints that they prey to..

and that purgatory was said to not exist anymore ... i dont even know why they did that.

As with most of the catholic doctrines, there is no Scriptural backing for it what so ever bar one misunderstood verse.

sent out a memo? lol

wtf .a baby hasnt committed any type of sin so it has sanctifying grace and wont have to spend a long time in pergatory. it's just a purification process.

There is a time in the Bibles outline of Gods plan called the Great White Throne Judgement:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[b] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. (Revelation 20:11-12)

This is the second resurrection spoken of in the Bible, where the majority of mankind who never heard, understood or accepted Gods salvation will be raised to mortal life for their first genuine chance at being saved. This is where that baby will be.

the fact that people base their entire lives around this bullshit really makes me laugh alot

People need to see to believe, but most dont even bother taking the time to look. When understood, the Bible accuratly explains and predicts why the western nations had become the wealthiest, strongest, and possessors of the best portions of earth. It also explains why thats all starting to change.

it predicted the four major earth ruling empires, Babylonian. Percian, the Greco-macedonian and Roman. it also spoke of Romes final revival. It speaks of a superstate that would rise up in europe, which would be a political, military and economic power. This "beast" will be increasingly guided by a false religios system known for killing christians and having intimate relations with the kings of the world...

It was to be dominated by the assyrians, who were known anciently for their ruthless war-like tendancies. Today the assyrians are identified as germans.

The EU qualifies on all of those things. The Bible says that this superpower will eventually turn on the nations of the west and will plunge the world into the most horrible, violent and despairing time in history. Which isnt suprising, Germany has been known for dramatic changes is national character, and with the EU at the reigns..Will just take the arrival of a dictator...

Case in point...there is more there than you think, the most definatly warrants an investigation as to why one should 'base their life' around this.

i bet it was also ironic

i actually thought of this thread right after it happened.:erm:

Damn Germans dont learn.

shinobi is bat-shit crazy.

Damn Germans dont learn.

Its the western nations who don't learn haha amongst being given the greatest prosperity, wealth, power and peace, they have turned their backs on God. And if the EU is the beast power of Revelation, which every single qualifier suggests, then there is one BIG wake up call coming...

shinobi is bat-shit crazy.

:smoke:

Fuck that, Im blaming the germans. Itll make a better movie.

Fuck that, Im blaming the germans. Itll make a better movie.

haha fair enough

"They have turned their backs on God" - so fucking what? What's he gonna do? Smite them?

go to hell. do drugs.

"They have turned their backs on God" - so fucking what? What's he gonna do? Smite them?

Pretty much...

Bible says it'll be a time so horrendous that nothing in the past will come close to comparing, nor anything in the future.

And you think that's gonna happen?

And you think that's gonna happen?

Yeah I do, im not basing this belief on ignorance. While im by no means a Bible scholar I've done enough study of it, and of Bible prophecy to be alarmed at todays conditions that were written down 2000-3000 years ago.

The accuracy of its prophecies regarding many nations so far have been accurately fulfilled in history, and so I have no reason to doubt what it says about the end times.

Im not one who can accept things blindly, but in my study of Bible prophecy I've found the proof I was after, and to my own satisfaction I have found the proof I need.

Alright. Thank God you're allowed to vote and reproduce.

Do Skittles. Go to jail.

go to hell. do drugs.

stop ripping off my shit, assholes.

Pretty much...

Bible says it'll be a time so horrendous that nothing in the past will come close to comparing, nor anything in the future.

uh, without significant and relevant citations, i'm gonna assume you're just speaking vaguely about vague predictions dealing with vague situations.

uh, without significant and relevant citations, i'm gonna assume you're just speaking vaguely about vague predictions dealing with vague situations.

When I have time tomorrow I'll do a post on fulfilled Bible prophecy in this thread with Scriptural references and all the relative citations.

Its far from vague...

Its far from vague...

Sometimes I need a revalation...

New Kids On The block,had a bunch of hits
Chinese food makes me sick.
Hip Hop Marmalade spic And span,
The great Larry Bird Jersey 33
Billy Shakespeare wrote a whole bunch of sonnets
Call me Willy Whistle cause I can't speak baby
Macaulay Culkin wasn't Home Alone
Michael J Fox was Alex P Keaton
Cherry Pez,cold crush,rock star boogie
Love New Edition and the Candy Girl
There was a good man named Paul Revere
Let you off the hook like my man Mr. Limpet
Like the color purple,macaroni and cheese,
Ruby red slippers and a bunch of trees
I like Kevin Bacon,but I hate Footloose

When I have time tomorrow I'll do a post on fulfilled Bible prophecy in this thread with Scriptural references and all the relative citations.



look whatya did, eulogy!

look whatya did, eulogy!

hey man

no skin off my back

YOU GUYS, SHINOBI'S RIGHT!

Revelations 8, 10-11:
“... And a great burning star, like a torch, fell out of heaven. And it fell onto the third part of the rivers, and onto the fountains of waters. And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And the third part of the waters became changed into wormwood. And many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.”

You know the Russian word for 'Wormwood'? Chernobyl.

I understand it's something most people can't or wont accept. I think the unfortunate thing is that people make up their mind to reject without any investigation. Any hint of the supernatural tends to send the mind into a state of denial. If people took the time to take a look with an open mind, they'd see some very interesting things..

Some very interesting, pretty vague coincidences.

I understand it's something most people can't or wont accept. I think the unfortunate thing is that people make up their mind to reject without any investigation. Any hint of the supernatural tends to send the mind into a state of denial. If people took the time to take a look with an open mind, they'd see some very interesting things..

yeah i've been in catholic schools for 16 years.

i think i get the general gist of most of it by now.

Ditto.

It's still funny every single time.

I wouldn't trust much of anything taught in a catholic school..

I wouldn't trust much of anything taught in a catholic school..

oh, we are taught things you couldn't even imagine....

Personal hygiene, mostly.

oh, we are taught things you couldn't even imagine....

haha taught what? to keep sunday, the pagan day of sun worship ? to keep easter and christmas which are bogus festivals with blatantly pagan origins and condemned by God? Or was it to worship the mother mary and statues, or that the pope has the pwer to forgive sins, or that he thinks hes 'in place of Christ'..the catholic church has introduced so many pagan ideas and doctines into christianity its amazing..

if the catholic fathers spent more time reading the bible and less time touching little kids they might get a few things right

WHY DO PEOPLE PERPETUATE THE IDEA THAT CATHOLICS WORSHIP MARY AND STATUES

i'm not a practicing fucking catholic but GODDAMN that is a frustratingly widespread misconception

vehemently anti-catholic protestants bother me for some reason

When I have time tomorrow I'll do a post on fulfilled Bible prophecy in this thread with Scriptural references and all the relative citations.

Its far from vague...

awesome

WHY DO PEOPLE PERPETUATE THE IDEA THAT CATHOLICS WORSHIP MARY AND STATUES





Ive read catholic devotionals and prayers which go on and on about mary this and mary that and give me power holy mother etc...

protestant churchs have followed the catholic churchs errornous teachings in many respects..

Ive read catholic devotionals and prayers which go on and on about mary this and mary that and give me power holy mother etc...

protestant churchs have followed the catholic churchs errornous teachings in many respects..

yeah well it's not fucking worshiping her. learn about it before you spout shit about it.

i don't mean to sound so hostile, btw

it's just my posting style i guess

:-/

yeah well it's not fucking worshiping her.

bingo. see, if shinobi would open his mind up, he would realize this.

if only he took time to learn the true teachings...

Yeah, the Marianists are a cult [of many] inside the Catholic Church.

and seriously, WHERE THE FUCK IS SLEEPER?

WHY DO PEOPLE PERPETUATE THE IDEA THAT CATHOLICS WORSHIP MARY AND STATUES

i'm not a practicing fucking catholic but GODDAMN that is a frustratingly widespread misconception

i believe it was like this a few hundred years ago

yeah well it's not fucking worshiping her. learn about it before you spout shit about it.

Well, the Bible says that jesus is our only mediator to God, and we are nowhere commanded to pray to anyone other than God

i don't mean to sound so hostile, btw

it's just my posting style i guess

:-/


Its alright...

I can be too strong in my views. I should probably stop before i offend further..
Wasn't my intnetion..

I was just taught that the Catholic Church way overemphasized Mary and her power, considering how she's discussed relatively few times in the Bible.

I was just taught that the Catholic Church way overemphasized Mary and her power, considering how she's discussed relatively few times in the Bible.

Exactly.

Well, the Bible says that jesus is our only mediator to God, and we are nowhere commanded to pray to anyone other than God




where does it say that there cannot be any other intercessors? and just because it isn't commanded doesn't i mean it's forbidden.

and for the love of god please stop ending everything with this..

However I will work on, and post, on Bible prophecy for anyone whos even the least bit interested, but will have to wait till tomorrow as i have bills to pay and shopping to do today ;/

I was just taught that the Catholic Church way overemphasized Mary and her power, considering how she's discussed relatively few times in the Bible.

"power" is a strange word to use. she gave birth to the lord and savior as a virgin. that deserves some props, no?

and seriously, WHERE THE FUCK IS SLEEPER?

it might be time to worry

where does it say that there cannot be any other intercessors? and just because it isn't commanded doesn't i mean it's forbidden.

.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

"power" is a strange word to use. she gave birth to the lord and savior as a virgin. that deserves some props, no?

I'm still convinced that's just a flaw in the translation.

"power" is a strange word to use. she gave birth to the lord and savior as a virgin. that deserves some props, no?
yeah but she wasn't said to be sinless and she did nothing to orchestrate it. it was all god's doing. there were a lot of people in the Bible who god liked and therefore gave special roles, but they aren't so revered.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Which would make the whole Trinity thing obsolete.

yeah but she wasn't said to be sinless and she did nothing to orchestrate it. it was all god's doing. there were a lot of people in the Bible who god liked and therefore gave special roles, but they aren't so revered.

i don't think anyone had a role quite like that, lol!

but seriously

http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

i skimmed that. sort of...i dunno. i'm sure it's debatable but i feel like there's a fine case to be made in support of it.

then again i don't particularly give a shit. :-/

Which would make the whole Trinity thing obsolete.

nah. god is father, son, holy spirit. the son is god and man. the man part is the mediator, i assume. makes sense on that level.

nah. god is father, son, holy spirit. the son is god and man. the man part is the mediator, i assume. makes sense on that level.

Yeah, thanks, I went to Catholic school as well. But people are still praying to all three of them - which doesn't make sense if Jebus is the only middleman.

/Actually, Catholics are praying to anything in the New Testament. The apostels, Mary... I'm surprised the donkey Jesus was riding on isn't a sacred animal.

Yeah, thanks, I went to Catholic school as well. But people are still praying to all three of them - which doesn't make sense if Jebus is the only middleman.

the whole trinity thing is based on faith and believing all of the spooky catholic stuff, which is all pagan based anyway. you either blindly accept it or burn in hell. it's really that simple.

Which would make the whole Trinity thing obsolete.

The holy trinity is another misconception. As far as the holy spirit being a third personality within the Godhead. I mean, the Bible reveals that the holy spirit is the power used to create and sustain the universe, and the power that God gives to the baptized amongst other thing.

In all of Pauls letters you read "grace be to you and a peace from God the father and our Lord Jesus Christ" or something to that effect, the holy spirit is never referred to having any placing when he pronounces the blessing from the Godhead

/Actually, Catholics are praying to anything in the New Testament. The apostels, Mary... I'm surprised the donkey Jesus was riding on isn't a sacred animal.

so now i'm praying to jesus' ass too? for fuck's sake!

Heh.

Yeah, thanks, I went to Catholic school as well. But people are still praying to all three of them - which doesn't make sense if Jebus is the only middleman.



well your catholic school must have sucked ass because you keep making yourself look like you don't know anything

jesus has a dual identity. he is both fully god and fully man. the fully man aspect of his identity is the mediator. that human aspect, in a way, is the mediator between man and his divine aspect.

you know. supposedly.

we need someone like bill donohue to tackle these tough issues

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Jesus still makes intercession for us in His restored Godly form aswell:

Romans 8:34
Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.


Hebrews 7:25
Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

i don't think anyone had a role quite like that, lol!

but seriously

http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

i skimmed that. sort of...i dunno. i'm sure it's debatable but i feel like there's a fine case to be made in support of it.

then again i don't particularly give a shit. :-/

yeah neither do I, how do I find myself still discussing this

ps. luv you future boy

i don't think anyone had a role quite like that, lol!

but seriously

http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp

i skimmed that. sort of...i dunno. i'm sure it's debatable but i feel like there's a fine case to be made in support of it.

then again i don't particularly give a shit. :-/

Another fine example of bogus doctrine, backed not with any kind of conclusive Scripture, but babble, waffle, human reasoning and assumption.

Another fine example of bogus doctrine, backed not with any kind of conclusive Scripture, but babble, waffle, human reasoning and assumption.

oh fucking christ.

it's all bullshit bogus doctrine. doesn't really matter what "scripture" backs it up, does it?

oh fucking christ.

it's all bullshit bogus doctrine. doesn't really matter what "scripture" backs it up, does it?

If your discussing what the Bible REALLY teachs then yeah it does. Today people dont really care what the Bible actually says, or what it actually teachs, and because they take their beliefs second hand without investigation, from others who have done the same, most people dont even understand the Gods real plan for mankind as it has been laid out in the Bible, consequently belieing in the immortal soul and going to heaven when you die and other mainstream beliefs not found in the Bible..

So if you dont really give a toss like most people on this board then no it dosn't matter, but if you want to know what original, true christianity is about and really teachs, then its vitally important..

If your discussing what the Bible REALLY teachs then yeah it does. Today people dont really care what the Bible actually says, or what it actually teachs, and because they take their beliefs second hand without investigation, from others who have done the same, most people dont even understand the Gods real plan for mankind as it has been laid out in the Bible, consequently belieing in the immortal soul and going to heaven when you die and other mainstream beliefs not found in the Bible..

So if you dont really give a toss like most people on this board then no it dosn't matter, but if you want to know what original, true christianity is about and really teachs, then its vitally important..

you realize that actual people wrote the books of the bible, correct? i don't see how you make the distinction that everything Paul wrote to the Romans is 100% valid while doctrine put forth by Catholic Church leaders has to automatically be invalidated. it makes no sense at all.

you don't believe in the immortal soul Shinobi? which church do you belong to?

you realize that actual people wrote the books of the bible, correct? i don't see how you make the distinction that everything Paul wrote to the Romans is 100% valid while doctrine put forth by Catholic Church leaders has to automatically be invalidated. it makes no sense at all.

Correct, but the Bible makes the claim to be the inspired word of God, and has many many signatures of God throughout its pages. Considering it was written by many authors over the span of nearly 3000 years or so its incredibly coherent.

The Church fathers have made precept after precept and have enforced them, much of which contradicts the Bible, which with the final book of Revelation was finished and complete.

It really dpends on your view of the Bible, if you believe it is the inspired word of the God who created the world and the universe, as a revelation of Himself and our purpose on earth, then you should trust what is written in there more than any words of any church leader. It should be the standard to which you test all things, to see whats true and whats not.

If you believe the Bible is just a bunch of writings done by men and has no inspiration from God as the Bible claims, then you have no anchor in your beliefs, can will sway here and there with every teaching that the minds of men come up with.

Correct, but the Bible makes the claim to be the inspired word of God, and has many many signatures of God throughout its pages. Considering it was written by many authors over the span of nearly 3000 years or so its incredibly coherent.

The Church fathers have made precept after precept and have enforced them, much of which contradicts the Bible, which with the final book of Revelation was finished and complete.

It really dpends on your view of the Bible, if you believe it is the inspired word of the God who created the world and the universe, as a revelation of Himself and our purpose on earth, then you should trust what is written in there more than any words of any church leader. It should be the standard to which you test all things, to see whats true and whats not.

If you believe the Bible is just a bunch of writings done by men and has no inspiration from God as the Bible claims, then you have no anchor in your beliefs, can will sway here and there with every teaching that the minds of men come up with.


i just think it's odd that you trust that the bible is the inspired word of god but think anyone acting on god's true will anytime after the addition of the book of revelation is totally impossible. seems a little illogical to me.

you don't believe in the immortal soul Shinobi? which church do you belong to?

the Church of God. Its a church that practices and teaches the christianity that Jesus and the apostles taught and lived by. We strive to, and work towards keeping the commandments of the Bible, including the 7th day sabbath, and the biblical holy days, and teach the doctrines and purpose of human existence that all the prophets from old and new testament spoke of: namely resurrection into the kingdom of God.

sounds kinda culty

After 1578 years, a time known in religious history as the Dark Ages, the true Church arose from its long sleep and again began to function (Isaiah 60:1). The time was June 13, 1903 and the place was Cherokee County, North Carolina. In this historic meeting, one among the group who came together to pray and study the Word of God, A. J. Tomlinson, made the statement after he had gone to the top of a mountain nearby for an extended session of prayer: I came back down the mountain and entered the meeting. Questions were asked. Bible answers were given. They said they took the whole Bible rightly divided as their only rule of faith and practice. I said, Well if you take the whole Bible rightly divided, that makes it The Church of God... Then I said, you have agreed that this that I have said makes it The Church of God, and will you be willing to take it and keep it The Church of God? They said they were willing. I then asked if they were willing to take me in with the understanding that It is The Church of God --- not going to be, but is The Church of God. They were willing... Brother Spurling... took the Bible and gave it to me. He handed it to me and said, "Will you take this (Bible) as the word of God, believe and practice it, obey its precepts and walk in the light as God is in the light?" Right there I gave my hand to Brother Spurling... I took the obligation with deep sincerity and extreme sacredness, never to be forgotten. (Upon This Rock, Vol. 3, p. 64, C. T. Davidson, White Wing Publishing House and Press, Cleveland, Tennessee, 1976).

--

i had never heard of this before

i just think it's odd that you trust that the bible is the inspired word of god but think anyone acting on god's true will anytime after the addition of the book of revelation is totally impossible. seems a little illogical to me.

For[i] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add[j] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away[k] his part from the Book[l] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19)

also

32 “Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it. (Deuteronomy 12:32)

After 1578 years, a time known in religious history as the Dark Ages, the true Church arose from its long sleep and again began to function (Isaiah 60:1). The time was June 13, 1903 and the place was Cherokee County, North Carolina. In this historic meeting, one among the group who came together to pray and study the Word of God, A. J. Tomlinson, made the statement after he had gone to the top of a mountain nearby for an extended session of prayer: I came back down the mountain and entered the meeting. Questions were asked. Bible answers were given. They said they took the whole Bible rightly divided as their only rule of faith and practice. I said, Well if you take the whole Bible rightly divided, that makes it The Church of God... Then I said, you have agreed that this that I have said makes it The Church of God, and will you be willing to take it and keep it The Church of God? They said they were willing. I then asked if they were willing to take me in with the understanding that It is The Church of God --- not going to be, but is The Church of God. They were willing... Brother Spurling... took the Bible and gave it to me. He handed it to me and said, "Will you take this (Bible) as the word of God, believe and practice it, obey its precepts and walk in the light as God is in the light?" Right there I gave my hand to Brother Spurling... I took the obligation with deep sincerity and extreme sacredness, never to be forgotten. (Upon This Rock, Vol. 3, p. 64, C. T. Davidson, White Wing Publishing House and Press, Cleveland, Tennessee, 1976).

--

i had never heard of this before

I have no idea what thats about, its not the same church i attend. if your trying to look it up,



http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/

sounds kinda culty

Acts 24:14
But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

Hmm this thread has upped my post count considerably :D

after downloading "top secret" scientology documents and watching their movie on auditing they really seem a lot less insane than most people would have you believe

after downloading "top secret" scientology documents and watching their movie on auditing they really seem a lot less insane than most people would have you believe

Tom cruise cracks me up, hes such a funny front man for that religion. I just think the whole alien warlord part of their belief seems wierd

Tom cruise cracks me up, hes such a funny front man for that religion. I just think the whole alien warlord part of their belief seems wierd

But a Jewish half-god zombie doesn't seem weird to you?

well your catholic school must have sucked ass because you keep making yourself look like you don't know anything

jesus has a dual identity. he is both fully god and fully man. the fully man aspect of his identity is the mediator. that human aspect, in a way, is the mediator between man and his divine aspect.

you know. supposedly.

"Mediator"? A simple prophet would've done just as well for that.
He was born as a human because only through that sacrifice of flesh, as a part of God, he could take away the sins of the world.

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so you think that column in trotskilicious' first pic is in fact a subconsciously phallic figure?

1. It's called an obelisk and the Romans stole it from Egypt.
2. A duh.

http://speakers-uk.com/cgi-bin/view.pl?id=409&type=N

http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2007/01/05/maggie_philbin_128.jpg

http://hub.tv-ark.org.uk/images/miscellaneous/images/bbc/tomorrows_world_1987a.jpg

Hmm this thread has upped my post count considerably :D

by coming in here and asserting that your beliefs and religious views are the only *true* and viable avenues?

suck a fucking dick, man.

Shinobi, make with the prophecies already.

by coming in here and asserting that your beliefs and religious views are the only *true* and viable avenues?

suck a fucking dick, man.

Umm, when your religion that you thoroughly believe in says it's the one and only path to God and salvation does it not make sense to assert this?

This thread except for my posts is like a long stream of watery, lumpy, smelly shit.

Umm, when your religion that you thoroughly believe in says it's the one and only path to God and salvation does it not make sense to assert this?

yeah, alright.

/grumble

yeah, alright.

/grumble


C'mere. *hug*

i love how the bible doesn't describe and predict anything about history outside the mediterranean / european world

and how it can foretell the rise of the babylonian empire when that empire was already one of the leading powers in the ancient near east around the 18th century BC, well before the old testament was even written

the concept of postdiction also applies to many of these "prophecies"

by coming in here and asserting that your beliefs and religious views are the only *true* and viable avenues?

suck a fucking dick, man.

All I've stated is 1) a firm belief in Bible prophecy and 2) That if one plans on basing ones life around christianity then its a wise decision to have the Bible as the sole source of authority when it comes to religious practices and the establishment of doctrine, and also havining and understanding of what it actually says and teachs.

Shinobi, make with the prophecies already.

yep yep Im working on it now. I was gonna write something up myself because doing such is a great learning aid, but time is running short so will just amalgamate some exerts from the churchs articles and literature.

i love how the bible doesn't describe and predict anything about history outside the mediterranean / european world

and how it can foretell the rise of the babylonian empire when that empire was already one of the leading powers in the ancient near east around the 18th century BC, well before the old testament was even written

the concept of postdiction also applies to many of these "prophecies"

The Bible only seemingly deals with events in the mediterranean / european parts of the world is because the the prophecies of the Bible relate mostly to the "lost 10 tribes of Israel" (aka the house of Israel) who were taken captive by the assyrians, taken from their homeland and were subsequently lost from the pages of the bible and history.

People have made the error of thinking that any mention in Bible prophecy against Israel regards only the Jews living in the middle east. Israel consisted of 12 tribes, the tribe of Judah (where Jew is derived from) was just one of those tribes. Judah and benjamin split off from the rest of Israel and they became two totally different and distinct nations and became known as the kingdom of Judah which was the southern kingdom, and the rest of the tribes became the northern kingdom of Israel There are several accounts of these two nations warring against each other and are clearly identified as two different people in the Bible, until Israel was defeated and taken away. They are different, as all californians are americans, but not all americans are californians.

So when all these prophecies in the Bible talk about the house of Israel, its talking about the lost tribes, who were scattered abroad. Knowing who they are identified as today is the key to understanding Bible prophecy, and shatters the idea that prophecy relates only to the european continent.

Also the dealings of Babylon that the Bible refers to was the Neo-Babylonian (or Chaldean) empire around 626BC. The book of Daniel which is one of the key prophecy books of the Bible was written during the reign of this dynasty, and predicted its fall and the rise of three more sucssessive kingdoms.

Introduction

“Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will do my pleasure’” (Isaiah 46:9–10)

“The Holy Bible is like no other book in all the world. It is the only book which represents itself as the written revelation of the one true God, intended for the salvation of man, and demonstrating its divine authority by many infallible proofs. Other religious documents, such as the Muhammadan Koran, may claim to be the very word of God, but they contain no such self-authenticating proofs as does the Bible (for example, the phenomena of fulfilled prophecy)” (A Survey of Old Testament Introduction, Archer, p. 9)

“One of the strongest evidences that the Bible is inspired by God is its predictive prophecy. Unlike any other book, the Bible offers a multitude of specific predictions—some hundreds of years in advance—that have been literally fulfilled or else point to a definite future time when they will come true” (Geisler, p. 609)

27% of the Holy Bible is devoted to prphecy, and the vast majority of these prophecies relate to world conditions and events leading upto the second coming of Jesus Christ. No other religious book can make these claims. The God of the Bible authenticates Himself by stating massive events in the worlds geopolitics and then bringing them to pass decades, centuries and millenia later. No other religious book can make this claim or have these kind of accurate proofs.

These are prophecies against some of the strongest and most prominent cities and kingdoms of the ancient world, which fell in the manner stated in the prophecies written centuries before hand.


The Fall of Tyre

Tyre was one of the great cities of the ancient world. It was situated on an island at the center of a maritime trading network that controlled Mediterranean commerce. Tyre was a wealthy emporium of goods, surrounded by 150-foot-high walls that were considered impregnable. The Bible reports that Tyre’s citizens rejoiced when Nebuchadnezzar and his Babylonian army conquered Jerusalem; they anticipated gaining access to valuable inland trade routes passing through Jerusalem. In response, God delivered a series of specific prophecies of Tyre’s future devastation.

Ezekiel wrote that, “because Tyre has said against Jerusalem, ‘Aha! She is broken who was the gateway of the peoples’… Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and will cause many nations to come up against you, as the sea causes its waves to come up. And they shall destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers; I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock. It shall be a place for spreading nets in the midst of the sea… they will lay your stones, your timber, and your soil in the midst of the water… you shall never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, says the Lord God’” (Ezekiel 26:2–14).

To appreciate the power and scope of Ezekiel’s prophecies, picture someone trying to predict what will happen to New York or London over the next 2,500 years! Yet history records how Ezekiel’s predictions have come to pass. In 585bc, Nebuchadnezzar began a 13-year siege against Tyre. His was the first of many nations that would come like waves against Tyre. Around 530bc, the Persians gained control of Tyre. In 332bc, Alexander destroyed the mainland portion of Tyre and threw the debris into the sea to build a causeway for assaulting the island city. When Alexander conquered the island fortress of Tyre, he battered down the walls and reduced the city to ruins. As Phoenician specialist Glenn Markoe wrote, “The conquest of Alexander… marked the beginning of the end for Tyre and Phoenicia… Tyre would soon recover commercially… yet it would never fully reclaim the pride of place it had enjoyed” (Phoenicians, Markoe, p. 61). Greeks and Romans later dominated what remained of the city. In 638ad, Muslim armies captured Tyre. Crusaders recaptured the city in 1124, and used it as a staging area for military operations. In 1291, the Muslims retook Tyre and laid it in ruins, “after which she never again regained any importance” (Geisler, p. 870). Today, there is a small fishing village near the ruins of the once proud city of Tyre, but the city’s ancient power and splendor, and its extensive trade network, are gone. The site of one of the wealthiest cities in the ancient world has become “a place for spreading nets,” just as the Bible predicted.


The Fall of Babylon

Around 700bc, the prophet Isaiah recorded several specific prophecies about the downfall of the Babylonian Empire and the destruction of the city of Babylon (see Isaiah 13; 14). At the time of Isaiah’s prophecy, Babylon was subject to the Assyrians and would not become a major power for another hundred years. Yet Isaiah foresaw the future glory that Babylon would achieve under Nebuchadnezzar with its Hanging Gardens, magnificent palaces, luxurious living, massive walls and military conquests.

Isaiah also foresaw the Medes’ destruction of Babylon, and the city’s ultimate desolation, several hundred years in advance! Isaiah’s prophecies foretold: “The burden against Babylon… I will stir up the Medes against them… And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldeans’ pride, will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It will never be inhabited, nor will it be settled from generation to generation; nor will the Arabian pitch tents there… but wild beasts of the desert will lie there… her days will not be prolonged” (Isaiah 13:1–22). History records that these prophecies were fulfilled: “In 539 Babylon fell to the Medes and Persians... Xerxes destroyed the city in 478, and it was finally abandoned in the 4th century bc” (Eerdmans’ Handbook of the Bible, p. 382).


[B]The Decree of Cyrus

In about 700 BC, Isaiah names Cyrus as the king who will allow the Israelites to return to Jerusalem and rebuild its Temple. 1 At the time of this prophecy, there was no king named Cyrus and the Temple in Jerusalem was totally built and in full operation.

28 Who says of Cyrus, ‘He is My shepherd,
And he shall perform all My pleasure,
Saying to Jerusalem, “You shall be built,”
And to the temple, “Your foundation shall be laid.”’ (Isaiah 44:28)

In 586 BC, more than 100 years later, the Babylonian King "Nebuchadnezzar" sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the temple. The Jews living in Jerusalem were either killed or taken captive to Babylon. In about 539 BC, the Babylonian Empire was conquered by the Persians. Shortly thereafter, a Persian king named Cyrus issued a formal decree that the Jews could return to Jerusalem and rebuild their temple. 3 This decree is confirmed by secular archaeology in the form of a stone cylinder that details many events of Cyrus' reign, including the decree to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.

In the first year of King Cyrus, King Cyrus issued a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem: “Let the house be rebuilt, the place where they offered sacrifices; and let the foundations of it be firmly laid, its height sixty cubits and its width sixty cubits, (Ezra 6:3)

Remarkably, Isaiah predicted that a man named Cyrus, who would not be born for about a hundred years, would give a decree to rebuild a city and a temple, which were still standing and fully active at the time!


The City of Samaria

The prophets Hosea (748 - 690 BC) and Micah (738 - 690 BC) each predicted the destruction of Samaria, the capital city of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. Not only did these prophets predict violence and destruction, but they declared that this great city would become "as a heap in the field," with its stones poured down into the valley, and vineyards planted in place of its great walls, with even the foundations being removed.


Samaria is held guilty,
For she has rebelled against her God.
They shall fall by the sword,
Their infants shall be dashed in pieces,
And their women with child ripped open. (Hosea 13:16)

Therefore I will make Samaria a heap of ruins in the field,
Places for planting a vineyard;
I will pour down her stones into the valley,
And I will uncover her foundations. (Micah 1:6)


History tells us that Sargon took Samaria by the sword in 722 BC. Later, Alexander took the city violently in 331 BC, as did Hyrcanus in 120 BC. What's remarkable is not the violent demise of Samaria and its people, but rather, some of the historic specifics of what then happened to that once great city.

Reactions upon visiting the ancient spot have been recorded for centuries. In 1697, Henry Maundrell declared: "This great city is now wholly converted into gardens, and all the tokens that remain to testify that there has ever been such a place, are only on the north side…" Floyd Hamilton continues: "To-day the top of the hill where Samaria stood is a cultivated field with the foundations of the columns marking the place where the palaces and mansions stood. At the foot of the hill, in the valley, lie the foundation stones of the city…" 11 Finally, from Van de Velde:

Her foundations discovered, her streets ploughed up, and covered with corn fields and olive gardens… Samaria has been destroyed, but her rubbish has been thrown down into the valley; her foundation stones, those grayish ancient quadrangular stones of the time of Omri and Ahab, are discovered, and lie scattered about on the slope of the hill.

Daniel's Prophecies

In 604bc, the Chaldean army, under King Nebuchadnezzar, swept from Carchemish down the Jezreel Valley and captured the city of Jerusalem, reducing Judea to a tributary state. Several of the children of prominent Jewish families were taken back to Babylon as captives. During the decades that followed, one of those captives, Daniel, rose to hold high offices of trust in Babylon. The God of Israel, whom he continued to serve faithfully, gave Daniel many visions and interpretations of visions which he recorded in the book of Daniel.

Look carefully at the prophetic outline of world events that God inspired Daniel to record. The Bible really does interpret itself, and the book of Daniel is pivotal to understanding the book of Revelation and other end-time prophecies.

Daniel 2:1 describes King Nebuchadnezzar’s troubling dream, hidden from the king’s magicians and astrologers. They failed to recount back to him this puzzling dream. Finally Daniel came in to the king and explained to him that there is a God in heaven who is a revealer of secrets, and that He would reveal to Daniel not only the dream, but also its interpretation (v. 28). Daniel then explained to the king that in his dream he had seen a great image rising above the plains of Shinar. This mammoth image had a head of gold, shoulders and chest of silver, thighs of brass and legs of iron. The iron legs ended with feet which were composed of a mix of iron and clay (vv. 31–33). Nebuchadnezzar had in his dream watched a great stone of supernatural origin (“cut out without hands”) come down from heaven and smash the image on its ten toes, at which point the whole image was turned to chaff and blew away. The stone became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth (vv. 34–35).

What did this mean? Remember that the Bible interprets itself! Daniel was inspired to tell Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2:38, “You are this head of gold.” He also told the king in Daniel 2:39–40 that three more kingdoms would each arise in turn after him. Daniel was inspired to record for us that four great kingdoms or empires would in succession dominate history, after which the God of heaven will set up His everlasting kingdom at the time of the final ten kings—which are represented by the toes on the feet of the “iron legs” of the fourth kingdom (vv. 41–44).

Daniel 2:28 emphasizes that the living God whom we serve is a “revealer of secrets.” The king’s dream was meant to reach from the days of ancient King Nebuchadnezzar to “the latter days” of this world, culminating with the return of Jesus Christ and the establishment of the Kingdom of God on this earth (v. 44). Have the events Daniel foretold come to pass just as he foresaw? They absolutely have, as we shall see.

In Daniel 5, we read of the events surrounding the fall of Babylon to the armies of King Cyrus the Great. The empire of the Medes and the Persians was the “second kingdom” that arose after Babylon. History tells us that the reign of the vast-reaching Medo-Persian Empire established by King Cyrus continued just over 200 years.

Then, beginning in 333bc, the Greek forces of Alexander the Great crossed the Hellespont from Europe to Asia. Two years later, in 331bc at the Battle of Arabella, the Persian Empire collapsed and the third great world-ruling kingdom took over. This was the Greco-Macedonian Empire under Alexander the Great. The Hellenistic empires of Alexander’s successors dominated the Middle East for about 300 years until they were finally swallowed up, one by one, by the fourth great world-ruling empire—the kingdom of iron.

This fourth kingdom, clearly identified in history as the Roman Empire, was prophesied to continue as two “legs” all the way down to the end-time. In that end-time, the ten toes (or kings, Daniel 2:44) would constitute the final embodiment of this system that had its origins in ancient Babylon. If we let the Bible interpret itself, this progression of four world-ruling kingdoms is clear.

There are other very interesting prophecies in the book of Daniel that explain the sucssession of these kingdoms in greater detail. But I dont really anyone on this predominantly godless board cares to read even what i've written.


Outro

These are some of the most interesting and powerful prophecies regarding the future of nations that have been fulfilled. If anyone cares, I'll do more posts on other areas of fulfilled Bible prophecy, like the 300+ Old Testament prophecies fulfilled in Jesus' birth, ministry and death, and the prophecies describing the end time revival of the Roman Empire and how EU keeps ticking off biblical qualifiers.

tl;dr

how EU keeps ticking off biblical qualifiers.

this is all i'm really interested in

this is all i'm really interested in

Then I'll work on another post regarding the EU, probably have it ready in a couple of days...and will post it in here, if the thread dosn't die.